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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back Paul Atimo with us. Paul

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Speaker 1: soon to celebrate fifty years in paranormal research. Paul was

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Speaker 1: one of those first investigators of the early seventies, beginning

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Speaker 1: while he was studying for the priesthood. His early mentors

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Speaker 1: include parapsychology pioneer doctor Luisa Rine and father j Nicola

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Speaker 1: s J technical advisor for the film The Exorcist, and

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Speaker 1: legendary first generation ghost hunters, Ed and Lorraine Warren. Here's

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Speaker 1: Paul back on Coast to Coast Paul. Welcome my friend.

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Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you, George, how are you good?

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Speaker 1: And Tom's telling me that Ben has gotten married, Yes,

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Speaker 1: three years ago. How old am I? People heard him

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Speaker 1: grow up on the ear, including on your show. Does

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Speaker 1: he still dabble with the paranormal Oh yeah, we're still partners. Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: we still do our radio show. And he's coming with

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Speaker 1: us to Pennsylvania. I'm not going to say exactly when,

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Speaker 1: but there's a wild and case down there you might

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Speaker 1: want to hear about some time. It's a flat area,

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Speaker 1: lots of bigfoot. I had my own Bigfoot sighting there

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. You could have knocked me over with

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Speaker 1: a feather just the beginning. So he's still in there

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Speaker 1: with me. Super Will you constantly update us on paranormal

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Speaker 1: research cases because we'll always have you on, Paul. They're fantastic.

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Speaker 1: So what have you been doing since we last chatted

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Speaker 1: with you on the program a couple of years ago? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm tell any time flies were having fun. We have

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Speaker 1: a new book coming out in August, which isn't that

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Speaker 1: far away. I guess. It's called Dancing Past the Graveyard, Parasites,

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Speaker 1: Poltergeist's Parallel Worlds and God, I wish we could have

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Speaker 1: found a pe sending him for the deity, but we couldn't. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: It's going to be quite a number of things that

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Speaker 1: I've never written about before, because I really didn't want

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Speaker 1: to have hated writing this book. It was there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of memories I'd worked very hard to bury,

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Speaker 1: and I had to kind of dig them up. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if we're more or less

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Speaker 1: to say vintage or not, But when you get to

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Speaker 1: a certain age, you realize that if you haven't told

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Speaker 1: the story yet, you might not get the chance to,

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Speaker 1: so I thought it better to write it than not to. Well,

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Speaker 1: good for you, Yeah, but you know your work in

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Speaker 1: the paranormal is Ben exemplary. You you you are dedicated.

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Speaker 1: I always got a kick out an interview and you

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Speaker 1: and Ben um you know you as you brought him

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Speaker 1: along in this. Uh. You do a great job, Paul.

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Speaker 1: We need more people like you. That's very kind of

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Speaker 1: you to say thank you. So you started off wanting

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Speaker 1: to be a priest. What happened, Well, that was a story.

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Speaker 1: I spent many years in the seminary, and as a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, I spent my high school years. You

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Speaker 1: could you could still do that. Then in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: at the age of fourteen, I entered the seminary. Now

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Speaker 1: you have to be in a regular school. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a good idea. And then in UM seventy one

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Speaker 1: I graduated from that level and went onto the college level. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then into the so called major seminary, which is

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Speaker 1: two years of philosophy four years of graduate theological studies.

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Speaker 1: I did the two years of philosophy, and then I

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Speaker 1: decided to switch from the Roman Catholic Church to the

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Speaker 1: Eastern Orthodox Church. Nobody says, how what and that never

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Speaker 1: happened in the seminary. The Bishop of Ogdensburg, New York,

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Speaker 1: where I was in the seminary, had a big investigation.

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Speaker 1: You know. Seminaries didn't leave the church, you know, but

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Speaker 1: I was at the right academic level to continue into

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Speaker 1: their seminary. And while the seminary at Wadhams I should

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Speaker 1: say the fact that at Wadhams Hall Seminary in upstate

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Speaker 1: New York, my undergraduate college seminary, was very sympathetic to

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Speaker 1: this work in the paranormal. Much to my surprise. The

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Speaker 1: Orthodox were not, you know, as a new convert, keep

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Speaker 1: their nose in your books. They did not like my

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Speaker 1: paranormal work, and they did not like Edin Lorraine Warren.

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Speaker 1: So actually what happened was in nineteen seventy seven, really

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Speaker 1: the first day or two of nineteen seventy seven out

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Speaker 1: I went. They didn't even want to talk to me,

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Speaker 1: and someone accused me of performing an exorcism on there

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Speaker 1: was just, I guess there were politics in the student body,

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Speaker 1: and one of the students accused me of which was

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Speaker 1: of course utter nonsense. I would never do such a thing.

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Speaker 1: Um But anyway, out I went, and um, they would

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Speaker 1: They talked about bringing me back, and but they never did.

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Speaker 1: And probably maybe the church and I both had a

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Speaker 1: lucky escape. But you were assisting on exorcisms, weren't you. Well,

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Speaker 1: that was in that was in the previous seminary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is the first chapter of the new book.

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Speaker 1: As I say, the stuff I'd not want to write about,

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Speaker 1: but you know, just felt that it was part of

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Speaker 1: your life you had to do. It was nineteen seventy three.

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Speaker 1: I was twenty years old, and uh, the I had

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Speaker 1: been working at this for two years. I'd written something

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Speaker 1: the previous year that Lorraine warrenhead real. That's how I

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Speaker 1: got to know them. And I had the theory that ghosts,

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Speaker 1: which are president as you know, in every culture and

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Speaker 1: pretty much throughout history everywhere, were souls in purgatory the

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Speaker 1: Roman Catholic doctrine, if you're not quite good enough to

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Speaker 1: go to heaven, not quite bad enough to go to Hell,

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Speaker 1: you go to purgatory for a while out, Yeah, exacted

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Speaker 1: to be purged, to hence the name. And that was

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Speaker 1: actually how I started out. And I'd gotten knocked sideways

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Speaker 1: by the unlikelihood of that theory. In light of what

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Speaker 1: I had actually experienced in my earliest cases. So anyway

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Speaker 1: I was, this was was kind of known on a

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Speaker 1: small scale. And there was a priest who lived at

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Speaker 1: Wadhams Hall who was a rather a mysterious figure. When

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Speaker 1: I first saw him, he didn't teach I knew. He

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Speaker 1: was the chaplain at the local well, the Saint Asylum,

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Speaker 1: the Saint Lawrence State Hospital, which was right up the

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Speaker 1: road from the seminary on the Saint Lawrence River. And

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Speaker 1: his name was Father Lawrence. His first name was Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: and he kind of was eyeing me, and he called

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Speaker 1: me up to his room one time, and he knew

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Speaker 1: all about what I was doing. I hadn't made any

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Speaker 1: secret of it to the faculty when I went there,

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Speaker 1: and my bishop knew all about it, didn't like it either.

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Speaker 1: But Father Lawrence said, so you've been working with the

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Speaker 1: Lorraine Warren. I say, And after a number of conferences, uh,

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Speaker 1: he asked me to come with him to the State

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Speaker 1: hospital where he was the Roman Catholic chaplain, but he

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Speaker 1: was also the exorcist for the Diocese of Odensburg, New York. Now,

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Speaker 1: every every diocese, which is a regional section of the

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Speaker 1: church headed by a bishop. Catholic Church has a a

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Speaker 1: an exorcist, someone who is trained in the paranormal, or

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Speaker 1: at least their narrow version of the paranormal, and there

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Speaker 1: will be called upon if any cases like this arise. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They are very careful with this. It's very hush hush, etc.

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Speaker 1: So in the October of seventy three I was brought

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Speaker 1: in as an assistant to him, and I was absolutely

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Speaker 1: fascinated by how how this was set up. There were

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Speaker 1: there were there was a doctor who had to be present,

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Speaker 1: there were there were two nurses. There was another fellow

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Speaker 1: who was an attendant. His name was Leonard. He was

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Speaker 1: a humongous guy. And this was sort of this team

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Speaker 1: that we had all this year in nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 1: and into seventy four to perform. And there were there

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Speaker 1: were seven people ranging in age from seventeen to someone

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Speaker 1: in the seventies. And the really the first one and

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Speaker 1: the worst one for me, was a young girl named

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Speaker 1: Barbara who was seventeen years of age. And they're they're

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Speaker 1: very careful with this, you know. In other words, you know, so,

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Speaker 1: how would doctors believe an exorcism and calling a priest. Well,

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Speaker 1: if things are taking place outside the patient's sphere of

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Speaker 1: physical influence, in other words, if the doctors standing by

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Speaker 1: the bed and the nurses are and stuff starts flying

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Speaker 1: off shells on the other side of the room, obviously

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Speaker 1: these are not phenomenal attributable to the person's you know,

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Speaker 1: psychiatric condition or medical condition, ranting else and when the

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Speaker 1: patient would they have float off the bed or something.

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Speaker 1: Obviously this was something you'd have to call in some

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Speaker 1: outside help for. And these were days when there was

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Speaker 1: a little less paranoia except about this um And when

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Speaker 1: I tell you, you're gonna wonder when I tell you

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Speaker 1: the story, you know how these things were kept quiet.

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Speaker 1: But in any case, Barbara was seventeen. We had to

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Speaker 1: get her mother's signature, who was an alcoholic. Uh. As

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Speaker 1: I began to learn at Agans at the State hospital there,

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Speaker 1: paranormal phenomena and psychiatric psychiatric conditions can be intertwined, and

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Speaker 1: it can get very, very tangled, and it can become

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Speaker 1: a real mess. So Barbara, on my first meeting with

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Speaker 1: her was with father Lawrence. We went in and one

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Speaker 1: of the nurses was there trying to feed her with

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Speaker 1: a spoon. She was addicted to drugs, and there was

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Speaker 1: all sorts of trouble that way. And this is in

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Speaker 1: the state hospital. This is in the state hospital, you know,

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Speaker 1: sat Lawrence State Hospital, which was a rather progressive hospital

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Speaker 1: for its time. There was they tried to establish a

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Speaker 1: family atmosphere and it wasn't quite the you know, something

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Speaker 1: out of you know, Jack Nicholson movie at the time,

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Speaker 1: and it was a little bit better than that, but

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Speaker 1: still these things would happen. So he, uh, she said,

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Speaker 1: who's that And he said, well, that's Paul, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the seminary students. And she said he's good looking.

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Speaker 1: That's at least she had a sense of humor. But

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Speaker 1: then almost immediately the bowl of soup flew out of

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Speaker 1: her hands, and the nurse's hand hit the ceiling and

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Speaker 1: then came clattering to the floor and there was this

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Speaker 1: this kind of tepid soup all over the priest in

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Speaker 1: myself and I was kind of shocked at that. But

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Speaker 1: flew out of her hands though, or tossed out. It

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Speaker 1: flew up all right all the way up to the

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Speaker 1: ceiling and back. And this is an old building, so

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Speaker 1: it was a high ceiling. But make a long story short,

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Speaker 1: they have to exhaust all medical possibilities before even considering exorcism.

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Speaker 1: Father Lawrence believed that that had been done, medical tests

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Speaker 1: of all kinds. You know, this sort of thing was

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Speaker 1: a long process. In the Roman Catholic tradition. The bishop

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Speaker 1: has to approve an exorcism, has to approve the exorcist.

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Speaker 1: People have to who are participating on the team, as

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Speaker 1: it were, have to go to mass, receives community and

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Speaker 1: go to confession. It's there's a lot of spiritual preparation.

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Speaker 1: They have to fast. So I had to do all that.

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Speaker 1: So in October, we late October seventy three, we came

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Speaker 1: in there and among the things that happened were probably

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Speaker 1: the worst. People ask you know, what is the scariest

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Speaker 1: thing that ever happened to me? And I think, other

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Speaker 1: than than having my belief system shattering on several occasions

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Speaker 1: and having to consider new approaches to this, there was

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Speaker 1: on the second reading of the exorcism, there are three

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Speaker 1: exorcism prayers, and the first before that, there there was

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Speaker 1: a demand by the exorcist for the demon quote unquote

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Speaker 1: to tell its name. And I had read this and

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Speaker 1: I asked, Father, they mean, well, what do you. How

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Speaker 1: do you know the things telling the truth? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, And he said, well, they're bound by the

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Speaker 1: authority of Christ to tell the truth, so right by that.

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Speaker 1: So the thing she had said its name was Chow.

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Speaker 1: I spelled that chall and it had come. It originally

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Speaker 1: started with Aluigi board, you know, which is sixty percent

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Speaker 1: of my case is it's kids forming with Luigi boards,

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Speaker 1: which is a sort of a sledgehammer technique to to

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Speaker 1: cut through a parallel reality the membranes. Or we can

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Speaker 1: get it that later if you want, but anyway, you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't do it. So we got through that, and then

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Speaker 1: then the in the second exorcism prayer, Uh, we got

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Speaker 1: to that part and the first the first excism prayer

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Speaker 1: on the first day had been relatively uneventful. Well we

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Speaker 1: got the second one, and uh, this voice came out

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Speaker 1: of her when he demanded its name, and it was

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Speaker 1: a vague, very deep, but vaguely female voice. It was

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Speaker 1: not hers, and it said Chow. All right, I said,

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Speaker 1: I didn't say anything in my mind. I said, yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: It was as if that thing had heard me. And

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Speaker 1: I've never said this to you before. I've said it

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Speaker 1: very seldom on the air, and it's very difficult to

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Speaker 1: talk about. But when I was seven years of age,

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Speaker 1: I witnessed my father's suicide. Oh my god, Paul exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it was, you know, obviously the defining point in

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Speaker 1: my life. This thing seemed to know all about it,

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Speaker 1: and it said in a language I had never heard.

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Speaker 1: The doctor had to look it up. The doctor was

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Speaker 1: recording all this and what kind of language was it.

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Speaker 1: It turned out to be melee what you know? And

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Speaker 1: so and he They wouldn't tell me what it said

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Speaker 1: because it took him a while to discover what it meant.

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Speaker 1: And at the end of the school year in May

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Speaker 1: of seventy four, Father Lawrence sat me down. We had a,

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Speaker 1: you know, a very spiritual conversation, and he said, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel right not telling you what it said. And

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Speaker 1: it said, I have to excuse me. It said, I

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Speaker 1: was there when your father killed him self. I told

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Speaker 1: him to do it. Oh my god. So and nobody

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Speaker 1: would know that. No had that had that been in

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Speaker 1: English at the time, I really would have lost it.

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Speaker 1: You know. This thing had told the claimed to be

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Speaker 1: in the wage, claims to be an Asian prince from

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Speaker 1: who knows when, whose own father had killed him, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I don't buy any of that stuff. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: do what they have to do to push buttons. But

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Speaker 1: a number of things sort of came to my sort

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Speaker 1: of sense of what was really going on. Oh were

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Speaker 1: you floored when you heard that? I was extremely upset

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Speaker 1: and I had I had his home for the summer,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of kept myself for a while well,

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Speaker 1: upset because it brought back horrible memories, or upset because

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Speaker 1: you could this this this thing. If you're ever in

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Speaker 1: the presence of these things, I didn't feel evil as such.

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Speaker 1: I felt a sort of sterility, a sort of alienness

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Speaker 1: and otherness. And every time I've been in the presence

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Speaker 1: of these things, and this is why I don't think

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Speaker 1: that they're, you know, demons in any classical sense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they fill the bill, but they were more like parasites.

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Speaker 1: I think that this thing, I think was feeding on

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Speaker 1: the on the very ceremony of the exit, on the

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Speaker 1: very ritual, you know. But in any case, I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, father was going to tell me, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you should kind of back away from this. But

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Speaker 1: but he didn't do that. He's I think he saw

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Speaker 1: me as he says, if this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a ministry for you, you have to learn to deal

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Speaker 1: with these things. And they said that there and it

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Speaker 1: could get worse. So I said, jeez, you know, but

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Speaker 1: I had you know, but he was very supportive, and

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe he saw me as a diosis and

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Speaker 1: exorcist some day. But anyway, you know, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was extremely difficult, but all through the whole process, and

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Speaker 1: he told me you'll you'll understand. Well I think maybe

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Speaker 1: I did understand, but not in the way he expected

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Speaker 1: me to. I think that this whole ritual feeds that

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Speaker 1: we call I call him parasites today, energy parasites, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think that they will push buttons, they will whatever

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Speaker 1: you want them to be so they can eat. I

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Speaker 1: think it's literally what they're doing. Um, there would be

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Speaker 1: they feed off this. Yeah, I think so, because when

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Speaker 1: you prepare to assist in an exocism like this, all

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Speaker 1: of us were as I said, now, we prayed and fast,

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Speaker 1: and we were we were calm. But then as as

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Speaker 1: things began to happen slowly, you know, people would get

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Speaker 1: more upset. The nurses had they'd seen this kind of

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Speaker 1: thing before, but that they would kind of get upset

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Speaker 1: and naturally this whatever it's said, I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I know what was to me. I just couldn't understand

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Speaker 1: it until they translated it for me months later. But

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Speaker 1: it was I think this thing was feeding on it.

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Speaker 1: And they will because very often, um these exocistms, exocistms

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Speaker 1: will take place, but they don't work, or they will

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Speaker 1: appear to work, and then the person comes or as

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Speaker 1: the ritual cause of a sick person will kind of

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Speaker 1: revert to this situation. How important, how important though Paul

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Speaker 1: is the exercist in these in these dealings that that's

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Speaker 1: that's an excellent question that I wondered that now Father

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Speaker 1: Lawrence happened to be at least in my from one,

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Speaker 1: I could see a very spiritual, lovely man, very strong

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Speaker 1: in his faith, and a perfect person to be doing this. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There is a heresy that was condemned by the Catholic

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Speaker 1: Church early on in the history of Christianity, and that

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Speaker 1: was called donatism. And donatism uh said that the efficacy

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Speaker 1: of something like that didn't mention exism. The efficacy of

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Speaker 1: the sacraments depended on the holiness of the priest. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether this was some move to a

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Speaker 1: job security or something, but that was condemned and it said,

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Speaker 1: any priest who's or you know has has them the

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Speaker 1: power or the or the ability from Christ to do

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Speaker 1: things like this, you know, regardless of you know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't depend on the on the holiness of the person.

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Speaker 1: I know, I've never really bought that, you know. Maybe

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Speaker 1: so maybe I'm a donatist, you know what i mean.

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Speaker 1: But I think that the even father Lawrence, who seemed

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Speaker 1: to be very good at this something. Echoicisms can take

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Speaker 1: weeks sometimes months, you know, but he he seemed to

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Speaker 1: wrap these things up relatively quickly, in a matter of

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Speaker 1: like a week. And but I heard later on that

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Speaker 1: after I graduated, so wonder I graduated what I did? Uh,

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Speaker 1: that he would have to go back and re exercise

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Speaker 1: these people. Barbara herself died within three years of a

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Speaker 1: of a drug overdo So I mean, it's just I think,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, But it sometimes can take other forms and continues,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've seen parasites attached to families for generations.

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Speaker 1: I was in your neck of the woods, although you know,

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Speaker 1: in California, at the Learning Connection one is many years ago,

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Speaker 1: and I was one night class. I was speaking to

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Speaker 1: a rebel lodge audience of folks from the San Diego area,

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Speaker 1: and they had there was one woman who kind of

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Speaker 1: she just grabbed my attention, and you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: it wasn't because she was particularly attractive, right, it was

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Speaker 1: because there was something with her. And she came up

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Speaker 1: to me afterwards and we had a long talk, and

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Speaker 1: it seemed that she was from a family of a

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Speaker 1: Mediterranean extraction, and not not that that means anything, but

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Speaker 1: that she they had had parasitical attachments in her family

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Speaker 1: for generations. And we have found that there are a

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Speaker 1: number of different species of these things that will feed

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Speaker 1: sometimes on families for whole generations uh their kids. I

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Speaker 1: think that the the the phenomenon of possession as we

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Speaker 1: call it, is not quite what the theology says it is.

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Speaker 1: Not only do these things feed upon the ritual. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, I think that they can. Um there are

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Speaker 1: things that have to happen first. The person who is

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Speaker 1: possessed quote unquote has to I think, tacitly agree to it.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Acoustic Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast AM

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