1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: A small town mom to be goes missing after visiting 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 2: a friend. Her jeep discovered abandon the next day. What 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: Happened to Jennifer? 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 3: Joining us Tonight, an all star panel including Jennifer's family 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: joining us in the search for what happened to Jennifer. 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 3: It all started on a Mother's Day Listen Mother's Day. 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 3: Jennifer spends the afternoon at friend Christy Farr's house. Around 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 3: eight pm, Jennifer says she has to go. Seemingly headed 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 3: to other plans, she takes off in her green soft 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 3: Time jeep, but Jennifer never makes it home that night. 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: Family reports you're missing early the next morning. Very often 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 3: we hear comments like you can't report someone missing until 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 3: twenty four hours have passed. 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: When a woman disappears. 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 3: It's often said, oh, she's taking some me time, she's 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: out with her new boyfriend. Every time I have ever 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 3: heard that, it's been false. The person the woman is 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 3: either missing or dead. And we all know the single 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: highest cause of death amongst pregnant women is homicide. I'm 21 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: sure there are all sorts of psychological or psychiatric reasons 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: for that shocking statistic, but What. 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: I do know and what is relevant to me, is 24 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: that is true. 25 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: The number one cause of death amongst pregnant women in 26 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: America is homicide. Not high blood pressure, not a heart attack, 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: not some complication of the pregnancy. 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: It's homicide. 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: This beautiful young woman, just twenty eight pregnant. How did 30 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: she end up floating dead in the Red River in Texas? 31 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 3: That's what we're trying to determine. So we know Mother's Day. 32 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 3: She spends the afternoon at a friend, Christie's. Around eight pm, 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 3: she leaves, but she never makes it home. 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: What else do we know? 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 4: Listen that afternoon, Jennifer's car is found abandoned on the 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 4: side of the road, not far from a local music spot. 37 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 4: It doesn't appear like there was any struggle, and none 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 4: of Jennifer's belongings are in the car. Foot searches of 39 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 4: the area turn up nothing. Volunteers and police officers spend 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: days combing the streets of Bonham looking for any sign 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 4: of Jennifer. 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: Harris joining us All Star panel including Claire Saint Armont 43 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: joining us, author of Killer Story, The Truth behind True 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: Crime TV. Claire, thank you for joining us. Explain to 45 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: me where her jeep was found. Thanks for having me, Nancy. So, 46 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 3: Jennifer's jeep was found on a county road Lake Bonham, 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 3: and it was a remote area. It was not highly populated, 48 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 3: and it was found there with the door closed, locked, 49 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: and her purse was missing. Huh, So tell me about 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 3: this remote area. Why do you say it was remote 51 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: and very undertraveled. 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 5: So Bonham is a small town to begin with, There 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 5: are not a lot of people who lived there, and 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 5: this was a back road. It wasn't well lit, It 55 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 5: didn't have many businesses on it. There was one business 56 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 5: that was called the Hoedown, but it was closed. It 57 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 5: was like a local music venue and it was not 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 5: having any activity that night. So the only reason to 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 5: be on this road would have been if you lived 60 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 5: over there, or perhaps to go to the lake. But 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 5: by the time you. 62 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Know her vehicle traveled this road. 63 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: And we do have some various ways of knowing what 64 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 5: time that her her vehicle was going down this road, 65 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 5: it was already after dark, so there wouldn't have been 66 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 5: a whole lot to. 67 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: See Claire Saint Ramont joining us. Claire, what time, according 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: to the evidence, was she driving in along this remote area? 69 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 5: So it was shortly after eight pm that she was 70 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 5: found to be driving in this area. And we know 71 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 5: that because she had left her friend's house after getting 72 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 5: a recipe for chicken spaghetti. She had left her friend's 73 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 5: house and said, it's almost eight o'clock. I've got to go. 74 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 5: And she didn't say who she had to go meet 75 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 5: with or why she had to leave, but she specifically said, 76 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 5: it's almost eight I've got to go. And it doesn't 77 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 5: take long to get from Christy Farr's house to where 78 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 5: her vehicle was found, and it's believed that she took 79 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 5: a direct route, so it would have. 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: Just been minutes. 81 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 5: And there's even a neighbor who saw her car as 82 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 5: she was taking her evening walk and she remembered that 83 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 5: it had just started to rain, and so based on 84 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 5: using weather data, we can really pinpoint the time that 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 5: her jeep arrived at this area. 86 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: To just a few minutes after eight pm. 87 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 3: I'm not really sure that just because Jennifer, who spent 88 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 3: the whole day with her friend Christy Farr, looks at 89 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 3: our watcher says, oh my goodness, it's eight o'clock. I 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: gotta go, I don't know that we can extrapolate to 91 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 3: she was meeting someone in some nefarious way. Why is 92 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 3: her jeep in this remote area We don't know that 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: yet an empty music venue, But let's move forward. Jennifer's 94 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 3: family is with us tonight. Straight out to Alissa Warnick 95 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 3: and Barry Warnick. This is Alissa's husband. To both the Warnicks, 96 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: thank you for being with us. Alissa, I'm sure you 97 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 3: recall when you learned your sister was missing. 98 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. 99 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: Well. 100 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 6: I was living in Austin and I a phone call 101 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 6: the day after Mother's Day that her deep had been 102 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 6: found in the area of Lake Bonham, which is north 103 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 6: of the bottom on a county road. And it just 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 6: seemed peculiar to me that she would leave her vehicle 105 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 6: for any reason, much less without her dog, who she 106 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 6: carried wherever she went. So I just started calling and 107 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 6: asking questions and wondering what she. 108 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 7: Could be up to if she decided to take a. 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 6: Trip somewhere or join someone somewhere. But the fact that 110 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 6: she didn't come home at night was a major red flag. 111 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: How closely were you guys in touch. 112 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 6: We were three years apart, so we had. 113 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 7: Different sort of life paths going on at that time. 114 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 6: But We did touch base with each other, especially around 115 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 6: Mother's Day because we lost our mother and that was 116 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 6: an emotional time. But unfortunately I didn't get a hold 117 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 6: of her on Mother's Day. She had been in Sherman 118 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 6: with my grandmother and her friend. 119 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: But we did talk. 120 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 7: From time to time. 121 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 6: I wouldn't say every day, but recently up until her death, 122 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 6: we were in touch quite a. 123 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: Bit, very often. 124 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: When we saw cases and we hit a dead end, 125 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 3: we circle back and we take a look at the victim. 126 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: Listen. 127 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 8: Jennifer Harris grows up in rural Bottom, Texas. Parents Jerry 128 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 8: and Alicia Harris couldn't be more proud. Jennifer is a 129 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 8: wonderful sister, a cheerleader, part of student council, and is 130 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 8: rarely found without her bow Rob Holman. The couple starts 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 8: dating in the sixth grade and has been inseparable ever since. Jennifer, 132 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 8: known as the dreamer of the family, heads off to 133 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 8: college three hours away in Nacadochius. Three years later, Rob 134 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 8: follows Jennifer to Dallas and asks her to marry him, 135 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 8: a proposal she happily accepts. 136 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: And then a life changing event, the loss of her mother. 137 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 4: Less than a year after her wedding, Jennifer loses her 138 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: mother to a long battle with cancer. Jennifer experiences a 139 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 4: great deal of personal growth as she grieves with her family. 140 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 4: Jennifer and Rob settle in suburban Dallas so Jennifer can 141 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 4: return to school, now training as a massage therapist, while 142 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 4: Rob takes a landscaping job. 143 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: Melissa, this is Jennifer's sister. How did the loss of 144 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: your mother affect her? 145 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 7: Well? 146 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 6: Unfortunately, we lived with her illness of cancer for quite 147 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 6: a long time. We both took turns visiting her every 148 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 6: other weekend because I was living in Austin and she 149 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 6: was living bac Indoches at scy and so we wanted 150 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 6: to make sure that one of us was with her 151 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 6: each weekend. 152 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 9: But it was. 153 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 6: Unfortunate that it happened to be the week that my 154 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 6: past that she was visiting a friend in California. So 155 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 6: she never forgave herself for not being there when it happened. 156 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: I got a question, Alissa, do you in any way 157 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 3: think Jennifer, who we believe was pregnant at the time, 158 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: would have committed suicide? 159 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 6: Absolutely not a chance. She actually, in fact was putting 160 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 6: her pieces of her own puzzle together and trying to 161 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 6: pick up and start a new life. 162 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 7: She had her sights. 163 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 6: On moving to Colorado or New Mexico and starting fresh. 164 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 7: She even considered moving to Austin to be near me, and. 165 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: She had a lot of hope Mary or joining us. 166 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: This is Alissa's husband, also an attorney and mediator. 167 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: But thanks for being with us. 168 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: Mary, What were your impressions of your sister in law Jennifer? 169 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: Do you agree no way would she have committed suicide. 170 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 10: From everything that I know and I've learned about Alyssa 171 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 10: and her family, that would have been the furthest thing 172 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 10: from Jennifer's mind, especially at that time. I'm also a 173 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 10: filmmaker and we're working on investigating Jennifer's murder and documenting 174 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 10: it and putting together a docuseries, and in so doing 175 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 10: we're interviewing so many different people, but just talking to Alissa, 176 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 10: talking to Jennifer's friends. At the time, she had hope. 177 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 10: She was getting her life together. She was planning on 178 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 10: a movie either to Austin. She was applying for jobs. 179 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 10: She actually scheduled a trip with her father a couple 180 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 10: weeks later to go down to the Gudaloupe Mountains to 181 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 10: go hiking, so she had plans moving forward. The other 182 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 10: thing is her jeep was found twelve miles from the 183 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 10: Red River. Now how someone gets out of their car, 184 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 10: takes the purse, leaves everything in order. Of course, there's 185 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 10: a CD missing that she was planning on giving to 186 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 10: her ex husband and somehow just gets herself naked, walks 187 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 10: twelve miles or takes a ride twelve miles to. 188 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 3: I don't know, yeah, very I mean, I'm certainly not 189 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 3: a shrink, but I do know this and all the 190 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: cases I have ever investigated, prosecuted, or covered, I've never 191 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 3: seen a person part their jeep, go for a twelve 192 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 3: mile hike and then go, oh, I think I'll kill myself. 193 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: That just doesn't make sense. Also, the fact that she 194 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 3: was pregnant. It's very unlikely statistically that she would have 195 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: committed suicide while pregnant. Why again, I can't tell you that, 196 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: but I do know what statistics tell me now. 197 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Also, Alyssa warn't joining us. 198 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: This is Jennifer's sister, the closest person in the world 199 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 3: to Jennifer. 200 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: So she had started dating. 201 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: I guess that means holding hands with her soon to 202 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: be husband all the way back in the sixth grade 203 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 3: and they became inseparable. She moves to the big city 204 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: from Bottom to Dallas, and then he wants to be 205 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: with her, so he follows her and they do get married. 206 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: Is that correct, Alyssa? 207 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 6: Well, she moved to Dacadochis to go to Stephen FoST University. 208 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: And Rob followed her there. 209 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 6: They were inseparable at the time. They loved Nacadochius. That 210 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 6: was the happiest time of their lives in my opinion, 211 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 6: and it just wasn't until they both graduated and needed 212 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 6: to start their careers that more opportunity was in the 213 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 6: Dallas area. 214 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 7: So that's when they moved to Dallas. 215 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 6: And they lived in Carrollton, I believe, at the very 216 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 6: beginning of their career journeys. 217 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: Police launch an exhaustive search. Six days later, a fisherman 218 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 2: finds a naked body floating in Red River. Cooked up 219 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: theories and public opinions lead law enforcement on a wild 220 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: goose chase for suspects. What really happened? 221 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: Let me understand? 222 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 3: The two of them, Mary and they settle down in 223 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: suburban Dallas. She goes back to school to study massage 224 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: therapy and he goes into landscaping. 225 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: Is that where we're at at that point? Yes? 226 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: Correct, And as Mary and I have discussed off air, 227 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: I mean he is a lawyer now filmmaker and the 228 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: title of that dot is planned to be Justice for Jennifer. 229 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: You know how one little fact Barry can totally skew 230 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 3: an investigation, much less a presentation to the jury. 231 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: Do you have one fact wrong? You could be screwed. 232 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's correct. It takes it puts everything else into jeopardy. 233 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 10: Now what's really credible? You know, and everything loses credibility. 234 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 10: So you want to make sure that every fact, every 235 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 10: detail that you have is correct and no presuppositions or 236 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 10: anything else like that. We are talking about whether whether 237 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 10: Jennifer could have committed suicide. 238 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 11: The couple seems happy in their first home together, but 239 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 11: they begin to learn that they want different things in life. 240 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 11: Jennifer loves frequent outings and their proximity to the city, 241 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 11: but Rob hates the hustle and bustle, preferring the slower 242 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 11: pace of Bontom and wants to settle down and start 243 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 11: a family. Resentment builds between the childhood sweethearts. Friends and 244 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 11: families start to take notice of the cracks and their relationship. 245 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 3: The two break up. They want a different lifestyle. She 246 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 3: likes a big city. He wanted to go back home 247 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: and acquire a pace of life, so they split. Let's 248 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: get back to the present day. Jennifer is found face 249 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: down pregnant in a river. Let's go back to the 250 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: times she disappeared. 251 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: Listen. 252 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 8: When Jennifer Harris disappears without a trace, police immediately turned 253 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 8: to the men in her life, ex boyfriend James Hamilton 254 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 8: and ex husband Rob Holman. Hamilton tells officers he moved 255 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 8: on and hope Jennifer was happy. Hamilton says he was 256 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 8: eating with friends at a McDonald's fifty miles away at 257 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 8: eight pm on Mother's Day. 258 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: That got to Claire Saint Amant joining us, author of 259 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 3: Kill Our Story, The Truth Behind True Crime TV. 260 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: Claire. When the two separated, okay. 261 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: When the husband went back home and she stayed in 262 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: the big city, they both started seeing other people. 263 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 5: Right correct, they were no longer together. They continued to communicate, 264 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 5: They continued to keep up a relationship, but they were 265 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 5: dating other people. 266 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: Dot A Judy Hoe joining us now Clinical forensic neuropsychologist 267 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: and author of the New Rules of Attachment. Doctor Judy, 268 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: thank you for being with us. You know, these two 269 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 3: had been sweethearts since sixth grade. They split up, they 270 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: want different lifestyles and find new loves. But you know, 271 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: it's not always as simple as it seems, is it, 272 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: doctor Hope. 273 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 12: It really isn't, Nancy, Because they've known each other pretty 274 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 12: much all their lives. 275 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 7: There's still going to be that connection. 276 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 12: As we grow, of course, our preferences change, we start 277 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 12: to know ourselves better, they decide they. 278 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 13: Want different things, But that type of emotional connection, it's 279 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 13: not just going to end overnight. These individuals have seen 280 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 13: each other grow up, have seen each other's dreams and hopes, 281 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 13: have been seen each other through big things, and it's 282 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 13: not just. 283 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 12: Going to be as easy as we're broken up and 284 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 12: we're never going to speak again. 285 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 7: I'm never going to think about you again. 286 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 14: You know. 287 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 3: Earlier, doctor Judy Hope, we were discussing the unlikelihood that 288 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: Jennifer committed suicide. There is no cod yet cause of death, 289 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 3: and I find that very very interesting. Doctor Thomas Coin 290 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 3: joining me Chief Medical Examiner or District to ma's office 291 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 3: in Florida, doctor Coin, I'm very surprised she's found floating 292 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: dead in a river that they could not attribute her 293 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: cod cause of death to drowning more than likely. 294 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 15: Because of the processes of decomposition. Bodies in water are 295 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 15: probably some of the most hardest cases that we encounter. 296 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 15: Second you die, your body starts to basically digest itself 297 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 15: as well as the bacteria that lines all of our 298 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 15: cavities begin the process of future fraction. Future faction will 299 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 15: break down all of our body tissues, you know, causes 300 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 15: massive color change, literal loss of tissue. Now you add 301 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 15: that into a water environment where you have a number 302 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 15: of other scavenging marine life, which include crabs, turtles, fish, 303 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 15: you have other ab and species that may be involved 304 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 15: that actually come in and actually remove tissue. So when 305 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 15: the body is received of the medical exoner's office, and 306 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 15: may be very difficult to determine cause of death because 307 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 15: you're just simply missing a lot. You know, we based 308 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 15: our decisions upon what we see with our eyes as 309 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 15: well as what we see under our microscope, and if 310 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 15: the tissue isn't there, it's hard to take a diagnosis. 311 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 15: It's hard to actually track hemorrhage in tissue if the 312 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 15: tissue is absent, especially like, for instance, if we find 313 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 15: a body outside and it has completely skeletonized, and very 314 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 15: often it does that in the heat of Florida or 315 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 15: in the heat of Texas. If a person was shot 316 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 15: and that bullet only traveled through soft tissue and all 317 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 15: we have left the skeleton, we may not be able 318 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 15: to tell whether or not a person has been shot. 319 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 15: So again, decomposition, the actual scavenging of animal life, that 320 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 15: can make it very difficult for us to determine how 321 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 15: a person. 322 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 3: Died, too, Doctor Judy Hoe, likely is statistically that a 323 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 3: pregnant mom commits suicide. 324 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: Extremely unlikely, Nancy. 325 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 7: As you mentioned earlier, that. 326 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 12: Is a huge wrench in this supposed story, that she 327 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 12: would somehow take her own life. 328 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 7: Usually that is a meaning to live life to the 329 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 7: best of your ability for most people, and even. 330 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 12: Sometimes when the pregnancy is a surprise, when the pregnancy 331 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 12: is not necessarily planned, it's still usually and we're saying usually, 332 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 12: because of course there's always the exception, but usually it 333 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 12: helps the person to say, no, I'm not living for 334 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 12: myself anymore, and no matter what happens, I got to 335 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 12: do better, and I have to look forward to something 336 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 12: for the future. And when you have hope and meaningfulness 337 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 12: like that, you do not take your own life. 338 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: You know, docter Gio, I need you to be able 339 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: to explain it. 340 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 3: I just know the statistics based on cases I investigate, 341 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: try as a homicide and cover that I never see 342 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: pregnant women can a suicide. And very curious to Claire 343 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 3: Saint Amant joining us in addition to Jennifer's family, her 344 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: sister and her husband, who is so moved by this case. 345 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 3: He's actually creating a documentary. Claire, again, thank you for 346 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 3: being with us. Claire, the time period from the time 347 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: she went missing I was reported missing to the time 348 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 3: her body was found in the Red River, how much 349 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 3: time passed? 350 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 5: It was one week, So she's found in the Red 351 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 5: River a week after she goes missing, and so it's 352 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 5: a long period of time. It's difficult, you know, for 353 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 5: her family. They're searching for her, They're looking in wooded areas, 354 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 5: they're looking, you know, in bodies of water, trying to 355 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 5: figure out where she could have gone. 356 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: Baby Lisa Irwin vanishes from her crib in the middle 357 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: of the night. Then a key. 358 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 16: Witness sees a suspicious man that night carrying a baby. 359 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 16: This potential suspect has never been interview before, but Magan 360 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 16: Kelly tracks him down. Making Kelly Investigates is a five 361 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 16: part series releasing every weekday beginning Monday, March ten, available 362 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 16: on YouTube Series six XM and wherever you listen to 363 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 16: The Megan Kelly Show podcast. Click the link in the 364 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 16: description of this episode for more crime stories with Nancy Grace. 365 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 2: No suspects, lost evidence, and dead witnesses stalls the search 366 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: for a killer who had the most to gain by 367 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: Jennifer's disappearance. 368 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: Another thing that I noticed, doctor Thomas Coin, is that 369 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 3: while we don't have a cod cause of death such 370 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 3: as legature, strangulation, poisoning, a gunshot one a knife. 371 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: When we don't have the cause of. 372 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 3: Death, but we've been thrown a little clue, we do 373 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: know her death was ruled quote violent homicide. Now I 374 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: find that curious because if they won't tell me the 375 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 3: cod then how do they know it is violent homicide. 376 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: I've got one other clue. 377 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 3: The only injury that we could get from the medical 378 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: examiner's report was a wound on her abdomen in damage. 379 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: To internal organs. 380 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: Now that is in total contradiction of a theory she 381 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: could have committed suicide, right what did she beat herself 382 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: and cause internal damage? 383 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 15: No sure, and I assume those injuries could be determined 384 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 15: to be not from animal scavenging or decomposition. But it's 385 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 15: not common for medical examiners to rule on a matter 386 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 15: of death and not a cause of death based upon 387 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 15: the circumstances, you know, given the fact that she was 388 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 15: found so far from her vehicle, the police investigation did 389 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 15: not and the family interviews did not show any evidence 390 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 15: that suggests perhaps that this was a suicide. I'm assuming 391 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 15: also the autopsy at least disclosed that she had no 392 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 15: underlying natural disease processes, although decomposition was present, but you 393 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 15: could still sometimes determine if whether or not there was 394 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 15: any other serious disease processes, you know, that were present. 395 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 15: So my assumption is that based upon all of the circumstances, 396 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 15: they were able to at least render a manner of 397 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 15: death in this case, which is homicide. 398 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: You know, I was talking to daughter Gdo earlier about 399 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 3: how things are not always as they same. I remember 400 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 3: my first high school boyfriend with great affection this guy 401 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 3: she had known since sixth grade. 402 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,959 Speaker 1: Okay, listen. 403 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 9: On a visit to Jennifer's Dallas home, Jennifer's father, Jerry Harris, 404 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 9: notices five large holes in the living room wall. When 405 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 9: asked what happened, Jennifer says she got in an argument 406 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 9: with Rob, who got so angry he began punching the wall. 407 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 9: Late one night, Alyssa Harris gets a call from her 408 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 9: older sister. Jennifer tells her Rob came home drunk and 409 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 9: angry and forced himself on her when she tried to 410 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 9: calm him down. Jennifer never reports the attack to police, 411 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 9: but Alyssa notices a huge change in her sister's demeanor 412 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 9: with her husband that was. 413 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: Never reported to police, and the husband, the ex husband, 414 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: has never been accused or charged in that event. Alyssa, 415 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: what do you recall of that conversation with Jennifer. 416 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 6: I just remember she called me and she was very upset. 417 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 6: She was crying and she didn't understand. 418 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 7: How could this happen? 419 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 6: It's her husband, and she felt like she couldn't record 420 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 6: anything because how do you go to the authorities and say, 421 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 6: you know, my husband forced me to have sex with 422 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 6: him or forced me onto the bed or whatever. She 423 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 6: felt like things had gotten out of control with the drinking, 424 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 6: and it really forced her to look at some bigger 425 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 6: issues and that's when she began therapy. 426 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 3: Daryl Parker is joining US certified Criminal Defense Investigator, President 427 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 3: of Blackfish Intelligence. Daryl, why is it that so many 428 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: women don't report rape? In this case, if it's true 429 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 3: and the husband, the ex husband, of course, denies it, 430 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: we have no claim, no police report. So many women 431 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 3: feel they cannot report a rape because fill in the blank. 432 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 3: I was married to him, I was out on a 433 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: date with him, I had been drinking, my skirt. 434 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: Was too short. Have you noticed that so often. 435 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 3: Alleged rapes do not get reported for a multitude of reasons, Daryl, Yeah. 436 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 17: I mean a lot of times these women are invested 437 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 17: in these relationships. You know, they either for financial reasons, security, 438 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 17: the length of the relationship. 439 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 18: Fear of further violence, those kind of things. All those 440 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 18: are reasons why someone might not report a rate. 441 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: Well, we definitely need to shrink from this. 442 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 3: Why is it wring You break up so often, you 443 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 3: bounce back a rebound relationship, And that's what Jennifer did. 444 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: Listen with her marriage. 445 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 8: On the rocks, Jennifer meets someone new at massage therapy school, 446 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 8: James Hamilton, who lives with the mother of his child 447 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 8: and has a second one on the way. Is Rob's 448 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 8: polar opposite. 449 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 19: James has big dreams and likes Jennifer as much as 450 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 19: she likes him. Friends Warren Jennifer about getting involved with 451 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 19: James with her husband at home. 452 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: Due Doctor Judy Hoe, what do you make of the 453 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 3: rebound relationship. 454 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 12: Well, Nancy, it's a pattern that obviously we see sometimes 455 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 12: maybe we've even done ourselves after we break up with. 456 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: Someone, and the reason is this. 457 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 18: There's that emotional attachment, and sometimes the breakup. 458 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 20: Is very sudden, or there's a feeling that am I 459 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 20: making the right choice? So then there's all of these 460 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 20: feelings and you've got nowhere to go, and in that time, 461 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 20: your decision making is going to be a big cloud, 462 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 20: and you may not decide on the best partner, just 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 20: on somebody who's around who's going to fill that void, 464 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 20: at least temporarily. 465 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 7: And this is why a lot of times when people have. 466 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 12: Her rebound relationship, friends and family members are commenting because hey, 467 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 12: maybe this is. 468 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 7: Not the person you should be with. 469 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 12: But the reason is you're just looking for anyone, anyone 470 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 12: that you can cling onto during that emotionally vulnerable moment, 471 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 12: and you're not making your best decisions. 472 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 3: Melissa, what did you think of your younger sister Jennifer's 473 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 3: rebound relationship? 474 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 6: I thought it was a little quick and based on 475 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 6: emotional not so much brain, but more heart, and I 476 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 6: thought she could think things throw better and take things 477 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 6: a little slower. I do feel like it was solely 478 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 6: based on shared dreams and aspirations and not so much. 479 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: Well, not only that, Alissa, the guy has a pregnant 480 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: wife at home and a baby. It's not a good choice. Well, 481 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 3: she came to that realization. 482 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: Listen. 483 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 8: Not long after finishing school, Jennifer hands Rob divorce papers 484 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 8: and he returns to Bonham a single man. James quickly 485 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 8: moves in with Jennifer, and the couple decides to start 486 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 8: their own spa together. As they struggle to get their 487 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 8: business off the ground, James begins hinting he wants to 488 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 8: get married, but Jennifer is starting to regret leaving Rob. 489 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 8: As the spa fails, Jennifer's relationship with James also fails. 490 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 8: Jennifer files for bankruptcy and breaks up with James on 491 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 8: bad terms. 492 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: A small town mom to be goes missing after visiting 493 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: a friend. Her jeep discovered abandon the next day. What 494 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: happened to Jennifer. 495 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: Claire saint Amont joining us Claire, so she breaks up 496 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: with the new love of James. Isn't it true that 497 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 3: when they were dating, James was married, had a pregnant wife, 498 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: and already had one child with the wife. 499 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 5: Yes, it was a complicated relationship, Nancy. So Jennifer was 500 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 5: involved with James at the same time that she was 501 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 5: still married to Rob and so they had met in 502 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 5: massage therapy school and James had another relationship, Jennifer had 503 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 5: another relationship. There was nothing, you know, very clean or 504 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 5: traditional about their relationship. 505 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 3: Alyssa, what did you make of her rebound relationship being 506 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: with a guy who was in a relationship with a. 507 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: Pregnant woman that already had one child. 508 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I was clearly not supportive. 509 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 7: It was not ideal. 510 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 6: I felt like it was something out of The Springer 511 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 6: Show or something like it. Just it rereaked of just 512 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 6: drama and chaos. 513 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: Claire. 514 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 3: It wasn't long after that that without any income not 515 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 3: knowing what to do next, Jennifer decides to move back home. 516 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: Isn't that where the ex is, correct, Nancy. 517 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 5: So Jennifer moves back to her hometown of Bottom, Texas, 518 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 5: and she moves in with her grandmother, and she's seen 519 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 5: around town with Rob Holman, her ex husband. 520 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 3: At that point, clear wasn't Holman already in another relationship? 521 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: Yes he was. 522 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 5: Rob was dating his new girlfriend and they had moved 523 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 5: in together, but he was seeing Jennifer also, and it 524 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 5: was something that she felt really uncomfortable about. She knew 525 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 5: that he was going to continue to see his ex wife. 526 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 5: And now Rob said that it was just like a 527 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 5: cordial relationship. It was because their families knew each other 528 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 5: and they had known each other for so long, but 529 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 5: many people wondered if something else was going on. 530 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, for her to. 531 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 3: Move back where he is, and then a bombshell, he says, 532 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: it's a cordial relationship and that's it. 533 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: Well, what about this? 534 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 9: Jill Wagner gets a call from her best friend Jennifer. 535 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: When Jennifer leads with you're. 536 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 9: Not going to believe the mess I'm in, Jill takes 537 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 9: a wild guess, you're pregnant? Jennifer tells her Rob Holman 538 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 9: is the father and she doesn't know what to do. 539 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 9: Holman doesn't seem to have any intention of breaking up 540 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 9: with his girlfriend. Jill doesn't have much advice to offer, 541 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 9: telling her friend to follow her gut, and. 542 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 3: When she decides to tell her ex she's pregnant, she 543 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: does not get the response most women hope for. 544 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 19: Jennifer gets the courage to tell Rob about her pregnancy 545 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 19: on a drive in date. The couple talks about their options, 546 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 19: but Rob says he's overwhelmed and needs some time to process. 547 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 19: They go their separate ways that evening without committing to 548 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 19: any decision about the future. 549 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 3: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, So let me understand, Alyssa, 550 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 3: Jennifer's pregnant, and we're leading up to the moment she's 551 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: discovered face. 552 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: Down in the Red River. She believes it's her ex 553 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: Holman's baby. 554 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: She tells Holman and he says he's overwhelmed and that 555 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 3: he didn't know what he wanted to do. He actually 556 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 3: admits we just saw him on tape, stating she told 557 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 3: me she was pregnant and it was mine. 558 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: Did you know all that? 559 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 6: I didn't know she was pregnant until I got to 560 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 6: the house in my grandmother's house when she was missing, 561 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 6: and I started kind of pilfering through items in the 562 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 6: bathroom trying to find out any. 563 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 7: Indication of what her mindset was. 564 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 6: And I did find pregnancy tests, and that coupled with 565 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 6: the fact that I found out that she was seeing 566 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 6: Rob on the side, it just indicated to me that 567 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 6: she was pregnant with his child. 568 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,479 Speaker 3: Yes, the pregnancy test she found, had it been used, 569 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 3: did it say positive? 570 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: It had not been used? 571 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 6: That it was a packet of like two and one 572 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 6: was missing. 573 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 3: It's not long after this where she tells the X 574 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 3: that she's pregnant by him. 575 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: Her body is found. Listen. 576 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 19: Six days into the search for Jennifer, a fisherman in 577 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 19: the Red River calls nine to one one he sees 578 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 19: a woman's naked body floating face down in the water. 579 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 19: She has reddish brown hair. It's Jennifer. Her body is 580 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 19: so badly decomposed a medical examiner cannot determine her cause 581 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 19: of death, only classifying it as a violent homicide. There 582 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 19: is damage to some of her internal organs, and shockingly, 583 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 19: Jennifer's uterus is missing. Forensic experts cannot explain why, but 584 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 19: believe it was destroyed by fish and turtles. 585 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 3: And that is why the emmy cannot confirm she was pregnant, 586 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,479 Speaker 3: but we know that she was. Also, we are learning 587 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 3: about a caretaker's home, an abandoned caretaker's home that was 588 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 3: burned down the night Jennifer disappeared. What can you tell 589 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: me about that, Clare Saint a. 590 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 5: Mont So, this is a fascinating development, Nancy. There was 591 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 5: a small caretaker's cottage that was near a private boat 592 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 5: ramp in Fannin County and this cottage burned to the 593 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 5: ground that night. And it's no known cause for why 594 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 5: this would have burned down. There was not any electricity 595 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 5: to the cabin. It really points to arson, an intentional 596 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 5: lighting of this property, possibly to destroy evidence in Jennifer's murder. 597 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: And then Moore added to the mystery Listen. 598 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 11: A year after Jennifer Harris's murder, Deborah Lambert seize Jennifer's 599 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 11: face on the news and realizes she recognizes her. Lambert 600 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 11: immediately calls police. She says she was driving on the 601 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 11: Red River Bridge and saw a redheaded woman with three men. 602 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 11: Two of the men had the woman by the elbows 603 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 11: while she struggled to get away. Lambert says she was 604 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 11: too scared to get involved at the time, but she 605 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 11: now believes that was Jennifer Harris. 606 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 21: I made contact with her and she was scared, terrified, 607 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 21: little corner face. My mom saying or two, and she 608 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 21: said that girl's visit to get great. 609 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 3: Thank you now for my friends at CBS forty eight 610 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 3: hours too. Darryl Parker joining US board certified criminal defense 611 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 3: investigator at Blackfish Intelligence. 612 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: Darryl, I'm torn. 613 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: When you spot a redhead, which is really statistically not often, 614 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 3: that's stuck in this witness's mind. 615 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: Okay. 616 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 3: She says she made eye contact with the woman, the redhead, 617 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 3: and that she looked terrified. Her mother, the witness's mother, 618 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 3: saw the redhead and said that girl's. 619 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: Facing and get raped and killed. Interesting. 620 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 3: They did not call police, they did not report it, 621 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: and they say there were three men. I find it 622 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 3: very difficult to believe, Daryl, that three people have managed 623 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 3: to keep quiet all this time. 624 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 17: Yeah, whatever miss Lambert saw that day, it didn't have 625 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 17: anything to do with Jennifer Harris. 626 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 18: Jennifer Harris's whereabouts throughout the day, We're pretty. 627 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 17: Well known through the investigation and the time of missus 628 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 17: Lambert's reported siding of whatever happened was several hours before 629 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 17: Jennifer went missing. 630 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 3: Ah ah, huh, so we've got an inconsistency. But then 631 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 3: there's the issue of a lineup. 632 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 9: Listen, police create a lineup for Deborah Lambert in an 633 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 9: attempt to identify the men she saw with Jennifer. Lambert 634 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 9: picks Rob Holman out of the lineup. Sure he was 635 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 9: one of the men she saw, but currently investigators cannot 636 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 9: attest to the quality of the test. There are no 637 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 9: records on who was included. 638 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: Family members still looking for the murderer, who left Jennifer's 639 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 2: body naked and floating in a river, and what happened 640 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 2: to Jennifer's baby. 641 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 19: Six days into the search for Jennifer, a fisherman in 642 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 19: the Red River calls nine to one one. He sees 643 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 19: a woman's naked body floating face down in the water. 644 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 19: She has reddish brown hair. It's Jennifer. Her body is 645 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 19: so badly decomposed a medical examiner cannot determine her cause 646 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 19: of death, only classifying it as a violent homicide. There 647 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 19: is damage to some of her internal organs and Shockingly, 648 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 19: Jennifer's uterus is missing. Forensic experts cannot explain why, but 649 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 19: believe it was destroyed by fish and turtles. 650 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 3: Claire tell me about the ill fated lineup. 651 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 5: So, Nancy, people wonder if this lineup was done properly. 652 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 5: There was a way that possibly it was tainted, that 653 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 5: it could have been that the position that you know, 654 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 5: Rob's photo was in that it led the eyewitness to 655 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 5: use it. But you know, ultimately he was identified as 656 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 5: who they believed to be the person on the Red 657 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 5: River Bridge. 658 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: And there's more. Listen Mother's Day. 659 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 19: Eight years after Jennifer Harris's murder, Fanin County, Lieutenant Sheriff 660 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 19: Darryl Parker takes a stack of Harris family photos to 661 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 19: Rob Holman's home. Holman is struck by a photo of 662 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 19: Jennifer swimming in muddy water and seems to get emotional. 663 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 19: Parker gives Holman his card and just a few hours 664 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 19: later gets a call. Holman wants to talk. Caught off guard, 665 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 19: Parker schedules an interview for the next day, but by 666 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 19: then Holman's lost his nerve and lawyered up. 667 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 8: Did you have anything to do with death of Jenniferer's No, 668 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 8: Jennifer's preynancy. 669 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 10: Did you believe she was predant? 670 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 5: No? 671 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 10: How did he like sho did you think that she 672 00:38:58,840 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 10: believed she was pregnant? 673 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 3: That from our friends at CBS forty eight hours, Claire, 674 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 3: explain to me what we are hearing. So the ex, 675 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 3: who is not named, a suspect at this juncture, So 676 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 3: the ex wants to confess, they say, come in. 677 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: The next day, and by then he's lawyered up and 678 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: won't give a statement. 679 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 5: Correct, and he no longer is willing to talk. He's 680 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 5: no longer willing to take a polygraph as he had 681 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 5: previously said that he would be willing to do. You know, 682 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,280 Speaker 5: in the recorded interviews that we have with Rob Holman, 683 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 5: right when Jennifer goes missing, I think we have the 684 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,399 Speaker 5: most reliable information. That's whenever he says that he knew 685 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 5: that she was pregnant, that he asked her to get 686 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 5: an abortion, that he didn't want her to have the baby, 687 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 5: that it would ruin his life, that she had threatened 688 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 5: to come to the house and tell his new girlfriend 689 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 5: that she was pregnant with his child, and all of 690 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 5: these things are sort of spilling out of him in 691 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,439 Speaker 5: this initial interview with police, but in future conversations once 692 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 5: he's represented by an attorney, he says he didn't know 693 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 5: she was pregnant. He says he didn't have any idea 694 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 5: that the baby, you know, that there was a baby, 695 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 5: or that it could be his, and he's completely changed 696 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 5: his story. 697 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Claire Sittlement, that's a problem. 698 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 3: It's a problem not when you add facts to your statement, 699 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 3: but when you actually change facts. 700 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: That's when there's a problem. 701 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 5: You would think it would raise more suspicions. But in 702 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 5: you know, Rob Holman's case, he was never rested, never charged, 703 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 5: never had to face any more scrutiny for the fact 704 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 5: that he changed his story that he now says that 705 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 5: he didn't believe that she was pregnant. You know, this 706 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 5: should be a huge investigative turn, I would think. 707 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 14: But he was never arrested, never charged again. He is 708 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 14: not named a suspect, has not been charged. Just because 709 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 14: he gave conflicting statements does not mean he's. 710 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,479 Speaker 1: Going to be charged with murder. As of right now, 711 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 1: we don't even have a cod cause of death. 712 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 3: There is a fifty thousand dollar reward for evidence information 713 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 3: regarding what happened to Jennifer. If you know or think 714 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 3: you know anything about what happened to Jennifer, please dial 715 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 3: one nine zero three five eight three two one four three. 716 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 3: We stop now and remember an American hero, Lauren Michael 717 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 3: Court's Detroit PD shot and killed in the line of duty, 718 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 3: Survived by grieving mother Lillian and father a retired Detroit 719 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 3: Police officer, wife Kirsten, now a widow and son Darien, 720 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 3: daughter Devin. American hero police officer Lauren Michael COURTZ Nancy 721 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 3: Gray signing off goodbye friend.