1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Part Time Genius, the production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Guess what, Mango? What's that? Well? All right, so I 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: know you know FDR accomplished a lot in his lifetime. 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: You did know this, right, FDR was a pretty accomplished guy. Well, 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you do this, but he actually 6 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: once assembled a team of writers to help write his 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: own mystery novels. You know this. I actually did because 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: John Green told me this years and years ago when 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: when we used to work at Metaphlops. But I actually 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: don't remember any of the details. Good because I was 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: hoping I could teach you something. I'll refresh your memory here. 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: So Roosevelt was a big fan of detective stories, and 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: so towards the end of his first term, he held 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: this dinner at the White House and he and his 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: buddies picked apart their favorite mysteries. This must have been 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: such a fun conversation to listen in on. But so 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: one of the guests that evening was a man named 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Fulton or Sler, and he was an editor of a 19 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: magazine called Liberty. They published all these miss three stories. 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: And during the dinner, he asked FDR if he'd ever 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: considered writing a mystery, And it turned out that the 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: President had been playing with this plot for a while, 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: just in his head, and so here was his idea. 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: The wealthy man named Jim Blake feels trapped in his 25 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: own life. He's bored by his job, on happy in 26 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: his marriage, and he thinks all people in his life 27 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: are superficial yes men. And so the story is about 28 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Jim Blake's plan to escape, which is basically to run 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: off with five million dollars and start over with a 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: new identity. So I don't remember any of those details, 31 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: but it kind of sounds like Jim Blake is just 32 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: based on Roosevelt, right, Yeah, it kind of feels like 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: that might be the case. But the one thing that 34 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: Roosevelt couldn't figure out for his story was how a 35 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: well known man with five million dollars could ever disappear 36 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: without a trace. So he put the question to Oorsler 37 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: that night at the White House, and the editor suggested 38 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: they assemble this committee of mystery writers to solve the 39 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: problem together. And Roosevelt loved this idea, and Orsler put 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: togethers well known mystery writers, and you know, each of 41 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: them had to work on a different chapter of the story, 42 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: and that fall, the first installment was published in Liberty Magazine, 43 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: and before long the full story was released as a 44 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: book and then as a movie, both of which were 45 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: a pretty big hit with the public. I'm curious, what's 46 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: the solution to the President's mystery? Well, this is the 47 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: ridiculous part of the whole thing, Like none of the 48 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: writers actually managed to solve the mystery that Roosevelt had 49 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: laid out. And you know, the key problem of how 50 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: to disappear with five million dollars remain unaddressed in that novel, 51 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: or at least it did up until nineteen sixties seven, 52 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: And that's when the book was reissued with one additional chapter. 53 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: And it was written by Earl Stanley Gardner. Oh yeah, 54 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: he wrote the Harry Mason books. Yep. So it kind 55 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: of sounds like this book was put together kind of 56 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: like those exquisite corpse drawings where you kind of like 57 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: try to draw an animal and then you base your 58 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: drawing on the last squiggle someone drew. Was this book 59 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: any good or just popular? Because I kind of want 60 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: to track it down. Well, I was looking at some 61 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: of the comments I've seen it referred to as quote 62 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: one of the worst suspense novels ever written. So I'm 63 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: gonna go out a limb here and say it's probably 64 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: not worth the bother, or maybe that is why it's 65 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: absolutely worth the bother, because it is that bad. But 66 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: I do like the story behind the story, and you know, 67 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: since it's right around Halloween, I thought it'd be fun 68 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: to settle into a nice mystery episode from who were 69 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: the pioneers of the genre to how did Agatha Christie 70 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: crank out so many spooky stories? So let's dive in. 71 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: H Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 72 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and it's always I'm joined by my 73 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: good friend Man Guesh Ticketer on the other side of 74 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: the soundproof glass trying to tape a magnifying glass to 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: this side of a pumpkin. It's pumpkin carving day here, mangoes. 76 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: So this is this is pretty exciting. That's our producer Lull. 77 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: He's been working so hard on this. I don't really 78 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: know what's going on with the magnifying glass and the pumpkin. 79 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: He's trying really really hard, so hopefully he'll focus on 80 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: this and I think what's going on is he may 81 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: have missed the memo about us doing a mystery episode 82 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: for Halloween this year, and this is kind of a 83 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: last minute attempt to get with the program. But anyway, 84 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: I'm excited about today's episode. Well, I do think it 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: would probably work better if he hadn't already carved Darth 86 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: Vader's mask into the front of it. But I do 87 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: appreciate the effort that Low is putting into it, because 88 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: he always put so much effort in you know, I 89 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: know you suggested doing the show on mysteries, and as 90 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: you might remember, I was obsessed with mysteries growing up. 91 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: I do remember that. And actually you dressed up as 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes for a few Halloween's in a row third grade, 93 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: fourth grade. And I think Ruby has also gotten the bug, 94 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: because she's you know, she's six now, but she dressed 95 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: up as Inspector Clusseau from Pink Panther last year and 96 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: this year she went his night the grade, which is 97 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: basically the same costume without a mustache. But you know, 98 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: it's it's funny because like, my mom got me this 99 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: a Bridge Sherlock Holmes book in second grade, and I 100 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: kind of just went on a tear, like I had 101 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: already read a bunch of Hardy Boys and Cyclopedia Browns, 102 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: and then I got obsessed with Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes. 103 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: But what's funny is I was thinking about this yesterday. 104 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: I must have been so insufferable because at the time 105 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: I had always like wander around the neighborhood just looking 106 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,239 Speaker 1: for dumb mysteries to solve. Yeah, I think it's pretty 107 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: safe that you probably were her. But what do you 108 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: mean by this? Well, like, there's this kid in my 109 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: neighborhood who just used to exaggerate and tell really dumb 110 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: wise all the time. Like I remember him claiming he 111 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: was the kid world boxing champion, Like I don't even 112 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: know what that is. But you know, instead of us 113 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: being like, oh, really shows the trophies or like shows 114 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: your punching bag or anything to that effect, I I 115 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: remember like walking up to him with like these other 116 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: kids and pointing out like, oh, well, you know, if 117 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: you'd really been around the world, you'd have a tan 118 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: here and here and here, just like I feel like 119 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: I got that from somewhere. But yeah, that's that's impresident. 120 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: I can see that same quality in Ruby. That's pretty great. 121 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: I am I'm glad that you you managed. Did you 122 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: in fact crack the case on that one? Yeah, it 123 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: turns out he didn't win the kid boxing cham got 124 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: to the bottom of that one. All right, Well, let's 125 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: get to the episode. Where where do you think you 126 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: want to start today? So I actually really like that 127 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: you started with FDR and I kind of want to 128 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: go back to presidents for a minute, because one of 129 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: the things I noticed this week is that like a 130 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: ton of US presidents were self professed mystery buffs. Calvin 131 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: Coolidge was one, Herbert Hoover, jfk, Ronald Reagan, and and 132 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: the list goes on. Actually, we were looking at something 133 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: the other day. I think Bill Clinton was also into 134 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: mysteries too, wasn't he? Yeah he was when when when 135 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: he first took off, as he reportedly tried to finish 136 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: two serious books for every mystery he read. But you know, 137 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: as his term went on and the pressure mounted on him, 138 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: like that ratio ended up being more one to one. 139 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: But it's funny because like, wow, that was great escapism 140 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: for him. Then when he was in public office, he's 141 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: actually still really into mysteries and he co wrote a 142 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: thriller with James Patterson last year called the President is missing. 143 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. So if you're going to rank these, 144 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: would you say Clinton was our biggest mystery fan turn 145 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: President I, I mean, I guess he's near the top 146 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and uh an FDR two. But Woodrow Wilson would also 147 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: make the top spot because he's actually the president who 148 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: did the most to improve the genre's reputation. Wow, So 149 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: why why would you say that? Well, you know, for 150 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: a long time, mystery stories were kind of viewed as disposable. 151 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: They were entertaining, but they really lacked substance, or that's 152 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: what people thought, and most people actually relegated them to 153 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: almost like children's material or children's entertainment. But Wilson helped 154 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: change that perception. He was so open about his love 155 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: for detective stories that publishers actually used his endorsements in 156 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: office as ads when promoting their books. And Wilson was 157 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: actually pretty instrumental in convincing the public that detective stories 158 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: had merit. It's funny because in this book, critic wrote, quote, 159 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: two men are largely responsible for the present vogue of 160 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: mystery stories in America, Arthur and Doyle and Woodrow Wilson. 161 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: You've got the creator of Sherlock Holmes and the president. 162 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: That's that's pretty crazy. It's interesting though, that all the 163 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: examples we've given our twentieth century presidents, like, if you 164 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,239 Speaker 1: think about it, were mystery books just not that popular 165 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: prior to the nineteen hundreds, or presidents just not reading 166 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: them yet or what what's the scoop on that? Yeah, 167 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: so the genre was still finding its footing in the 168 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, which is something we can come back to. 169 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: But a lot of people in the nineteenth century weren't 170 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: sold on popular fiction in general. It was kind of 171 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: thought of as on savory or frivolous. But there was 172 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: at least one president who was on board the mystery 173 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: train from the very very start. It's good old Abe 174 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: Lincoln and uh apparently he was a huge fan of 175 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: Edgar Allan pose detective stories, and he loved the work 176 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: so much he could actually quote full passages from memory. 177 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: And it kind of makes you wonder what the draw 178 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: was for all of these presidents. I mean, what are 179 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: the odds that so many of them would be into 180 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: such a niche genre, Because you know, if if we're 181 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: simply talking about finding escapism, you know, why not read 182 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: adventure stories or sci fi or fantasy or some of 183 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: these other genres. You know, what's funny to me is 184 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: like that we keep talking about it as escapism because 185 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: mysteries are the one genre that you kind of have 186 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: to pay attention to every single sentence, right, Like every 187 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: sentence can have a clue, So you're almost like doubling 188 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: down on comprehension skills. Or maybe that's a that's a 189 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: good reason that people do escape in them. But you know, 190 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: in Lincoln's case, it was supposedly the logic of the 191 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: mystery stories that appeal to him, and in fact, one 192 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: of his contemporaries put it, quote, the absolute and logical 193 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: method of post tales appeal to his bent of mind. 194 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: And I'm sure it's a similar story for other presidents 195 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: who loved a good mystery. Like their job entails so 196 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: much problem solving, so it kind of makes sense that 197 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: they gravitate to this like form of entertainment where they 198 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: can sort of exercise that skill set. All right, Well, 199 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: since we're starting to dissect the genre a little bit, 200 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: I do think it would be helpful to clarify what 201 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: exactly a mystery is, because so far we've been using 202 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of terms sort of interchangeably, but there are 203 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: actually some pretty key differences, you know, for instance, between 204 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: mystery and a thriller. So just just to start, we 205 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: should say that the kinds of stories we're talking about 206 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: today all technically fall under the larger genre of suspense, 207 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: so that includes mystery novels, crime novels, and thrillers. So 208 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: for a mystery, the drive action of the story is 209 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: the solution to a crime, like usually a murder, but 210 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: sometimes a theft or a kidnapping. So the story follows 211 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: some kind of detective or professional in the field as 212 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: they try to determine who did the crime and why. 213 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: And so you can have what's called a cozy mystery, 214 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: which are your Miss Marble stories or your Father Brown mysteries, 215 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: where the action is set in a sleepy small town, 216 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: making the violence of the crime, you know, all that 217 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: much more shocking. And in contrast to those cozy mysteries, 218 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: you've got these hard boiled mysteries. And these are the 219 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: ones where the hero is kind of a world weary 220 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: cop or a private investigator, like the Sam Spade character 221 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: and the National Hammett books or Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe character, 222 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: you know, both of whom were played on screen by 223 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Humphrey Bogart. By the way, and as Chandler Wants explained, 224 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: a hard wild hero is someone who can quote walk 225 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: the main streets, but who is not himself mean, which 226 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: all makes sense. So what about a crime novel, Like, 227 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: what's the difference between that and a mystery? Well, technically, 228 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: in a crime novel, there really isn't much of a 229 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: mystery to solve. I mean a lot of the times 230 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: the identity of the criminal is known from the very beginning, 231 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: so the question is more about how the lawman hero 232 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: will catch them in the end. So, for example, the 233 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: movie Seven isn't really a mystery. It's a crime drama, 234 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: so we know who the killer is, and the bulk 235 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: of the film revolves around two detectives trying different tactics, 236 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, to bring him in, right, you're sort of 237 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: like frustratingly watching their process and watching them figure it out. 238 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: So what about thrillers, Well, maybe the biggest distinction is 239 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: that ghosts, monsters, and these other supernatural elements are all 240 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: fair game for a thriller, Like they aren't required features 241 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: of the genre. But You're much more likely to come 242 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: a cross them in a thriller than you are and 243 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: say a mystery or a crime story. So just to 244 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: make sure we keep it all straight, you can think 245 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: of it like this, Mystery stories are the most cerebral 246 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: and least violent of the suspense genres. Crime stories are 247 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: the most dramatic, and thrillers are the most I guess emotional, 248 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: kind of playing up the fear and dread of the characters. 249 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: So each kind of story has shared elements, such as 250 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: crimes and detectives, but they each have distinctions that kind 251 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: of make them, you know, utilize their own unique things. 252 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: So I I know Edgar Allan post spedly wrote like 253 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: the first detective story, but were there suspense stories or 254 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: mystery novels before that? I mean, it's impossible to say 255 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: for certain, but who probably make the case for Oedipus 256 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: Rex being the first mystery story you know written by 257 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: Sophocles and it it deals with the title character trying 258 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: to solve the mystery of his origins and so to 259 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: do that, he questions witnesses, interprets clues, slowly pieces together 260 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: the tragic truth about his parentage. No spoilers here, and 261 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: you've managed to avoid them for the last few thousand 262 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: years exactly. But it isn't the only one, Like there 263 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: are examples of mysteries in early Chinese and Arabian fiction, 264 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: and probably countless others that we just don't know about. 265 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: But in terms of modern fiction, I think it's probably 266 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: fair to say. I mean, the one that's brought up 267 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: most is Edgar Allan posty one story The Murders and 268 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: Rue Morgue, and this is widely believed to be the 269 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: first modern story in which a character solves a mystery 270 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,599 Speaker 1: by analyzing the facts and following the clues. So I 271 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: am curious. Did Poe consider his mystery stories to be 272 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: like a new kind of fiction, because it kind of 273 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: sounds like the groundwork was already laid by these earlier 274 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: authors and he just kind of reinvented it for the 275 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: modern age. Is that how he saw it? Or did 276 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: he feel like he just like completely invented this thing 277 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: from scratch? Yeah, I mean, I think he had a 278 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: pretty level head about his role in all this. You know, 279 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: Following the success of Rue Morgue, Popen further mystery stories, 280 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: including the Mystery of Marie Roge and and that was 281 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty two, The Purloined Letter in eighteen forty four, 282 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: and a couple of years later he wrote a letter 283 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: to a friend explaining his take on the budding genre. 284 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: So here's what he said about it. These tales owe 285 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: most of their popularity to being something old in a 286 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: new key. I do not mean to say that they're 287 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: not ingenious, but people think them more ingenious than they 288 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: are on account of their method and air of method, 289 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: you know. But what Pope probably didn't know is that 290 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: he was establishing elements that would become trademarks of the genre, 291 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: just for example here, but was careful to lay out 292 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the clues throughout the story so that his readers could 293 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: have a crack at solving the mystery themselves, which is 294 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: part of what makes them so much fun. And that 295 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: was a tactic that future writers like Agatha Christie would 296 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: later use. And then another defining feature that Poe introduced 297 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: was the idea of having a recurring detective, you know, 298 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: appeared in multiple stories, and that of course paved the 299 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: way for characters like Sherlock Holmes, Miss Marble and plenty 300 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: of others. Yeah, I mean, I have to say that 301 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: was much more of a definitive answer that I was expecting. 302 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: It does seem like Edgar Allan Poe invented the mystery genre, 303 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: is like how I was thinking about it before. I 304 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: feel like maybe there's a little bit more to unravel here. 305 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: But before we get into that, let's take a quick break. 306 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, and you were talking 307 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: about all the twists and turns the mystery genre has 308 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: taken over the years. Okay, well, so it seems like 309 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: before the break you might have duped us like you 310 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: made it seemed like Poe invented mystery stories. But then 311 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: also maybe not. I don't know that duped to anybody, 312 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: but I mean there are important caveats to the Poe explanation. 313 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: So for starters, the mysteries that Poe wrote, they were 314 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: all short stories, as you know. And if you want 315 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: to know who wrote the first modern mystery novel, and 316 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: the person you're probably looking for is Wilkie Collins, who 317 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: wrote a brawling mystery called The Moonstone. Now this was 318 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty eight. Like post stories from a few 319 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: decades prior, collins book included a ton of elements that 320 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: have since come to define the mystery genre as well, 321 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: what are you talking about exactly here? Well, you know, 322 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: take the eccentric detective, the inept police force, some mannor 323 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: house setting, and of course a reenactment of the crime 324 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: to be solved. So like poets the credit for mystery 325 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: shorts laying out some of the clues, and and Collins 326 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: gets the nod for mystery novels. Well, even that is 327 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: a little bit murky. I know you're wanting these definitive answers. 328 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: We got, we got a drill in a little bit O. 329 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: For the last hundred years or so, Wilkie Collins was 330 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: the go to answer. But about a decade ago that 331 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: was a pretty big discovery made by a professor at 332 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: Portland State University, a guy named Paul Collins, no relation 333 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: to Wilkie. But it turns out that another writer's detective 334 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: novel had actually made it to market before The Moonstone. 335 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: Charles Felix debuted his story The notting Hill Miss Three 336 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty two, a full six years before Wilkie's novel. 337 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: The story initially ran as these eight installments in a 338 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: weekly magazine. Then it was published in book form a 339 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: few years later, where it was met with actually pretty 340 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: rave reviews. So, according to Professor Collins quote, the whole 341 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: idea of a detective novel was basically new to book critics, 342 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: and in fact, they almost didn't even know how to 343 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: react to it or explain it to their readers. One 344 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: of the reviews that came out said this is best 345 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: understood like a game of solitaire, or like a puzzle 346 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: that you've been handed to figure out. Collins was also 347 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: quoted saying the genre really didn't exist at that point, 348 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: so they had to explain to readers that the whole 349 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: idea behind this is that you've been handed a puzzle 350 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting. But you know, if Felix's mystery was 351 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: such a game changer, then how come no one seems 352 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: to remember it, or like even the author for that matter. 353 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a good question. And the answer is, 354 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: Professor Collins found out, is that Charles Felix didn't actually exist. 355 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: And of course the another mystery, another twist for you here, 356 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: and that was a pen name coined by the author, 357 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Charles Warren Adams. And this is something Collins discovered while 358 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: he was searching through the archives of the book's defunct publisher, 359 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: now The strange thing though, was that after searching through 360 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of documents, Collins couldn't find a single 361 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: word of correspondence between the author and the publisher, Like 362 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: you think there would have been a submission letter or 363 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: some kind of discussion of payment, but there was nothing 364 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: to be found. So then the mystery became, why was 365 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: there no correspondence between the publisher and the author? And 366 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm guessing the answer was he was the publisher. Yeah, man, mango, 367 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: you've still got it. You're getting You're getting the hang 368 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: of this. Charles Warren Adams was the author and the publisher. 369 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: So Adams published his own mystery under the name Felix, 370 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: and you know, and then when the company went under 371 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: in the eighteen seventies, the first mystery novel and the 372 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: man who wrote it fell off the map. Now that 373 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: was until Collins finally cracked the case. That's pretty incredible 374 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: and and not sell Wilkie Collins or Charles Felix Shure. 375 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: But I do kind of want to go to bat 376 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: for our old friend Edgar Allan Pope, Like he may 377 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: not have written the world's first detective novel, but he 378 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: did directly inspire the creation of one of the genre's 379 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: most enduring characters, and that would be Sherlock Holmes. And 380 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: uh Sherlock's creator was not really that shy about crediting 381 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: the inspiration either. Conan Doyle once wrote, quote, each of 382 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: post detective stories is a route from which a whole 383 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: literature has developed. Where was the detective story until Pope 384 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: breathed the breath of life into it? Let's say it's 385 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: pretty nice tribute. It is. But but you know, if 386 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: you compare pose character with Sherlock, the similarities are pretty striking. 387 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: They're both armchair detectives, not professionals. They're both brought in 388 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: as consultants on cases that have the local police stumped. 389 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: They even both rely on on assuming sidekicks to help 390 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: with their cases. There's an unnamed narrator in in the 391 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: Pope book, and and uh Dr Watson for homes. But 392 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, all of that said, there's at least one 393 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: famous detective trope for which Conan Doyle deserved soul credit, 394 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: and that is the magnifying glass. So apparently Shlock Holmes 395 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: is the first fictional character to ever use a magnifying 396 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: glass to help solve a mystery. I don't know. Lull's 397 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: shaking his head and he's mouthing Darth Vader. I think 398 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: he's putting in a different vote on this one. So 399 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust Litle on this one. But I do 400 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: want to mention though, that even though Post Detective was 401 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: a clear model for Conan Doyle's there was actually a 402 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: real life inspiration for Sherlock Holmes. So before settling on 403 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: a career in writing, Conan Doyle had studied medicine at 404 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: the University of Edinburgh and one of the professors he 405 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: clerked for at a local hospital was a man named 406 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: Dr Joseph Bell. And he was this renowned doctor. I 407 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: guess he had this ability to diagnose patients based on 408 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: like these super minute details. The signs of wear and 409 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: their clothing, or the way they walked, or the accent 410 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: they spoke with, or even the kind of tattoos they had, 411 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: played into the explanation for why they had some sort 412 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: of afflict. And as Bell explained, quote, all careful teachers 413 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: have first to show the student how to recognize accurately 414 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: the case. In fact, the student must be taught to observe. 415 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: I mean it seems like basically he took that approach 416 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: to medicine and just applied it to a crime scene. Right. Yeah, 417 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: So you know, historians weren't even the first ones to 418 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: make this connection. Apparently Robert Louis Stevenson, who you know 419 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: is also a famous author, also studied under Dr Bell 420 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: at the University of Edinburgh, and uh Stevenson was so 421 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: struck by the similarity between Bell and the fictional detective 422 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: that he actually wrote Conan Doyle a letter asking can 423 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: this be my old friend Joe Bell, which, of course 424 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: it was. Well, now that we've covered some of the 425 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: undisputed kings of the mystery genre, what do you say 426 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: we give the Queen her do and talk a little 427 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: bit about the one and only Agatha Christie. I love 428 00:21:50,040 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: that idea, But first we should take a quick break. Okay, Well, 429 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: so before we get into how prolific a writer Agatha 430 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: Christie was, I do have to tell you one of 431 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: my all time favorite facts about her, which is that 432 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: she and her first husband were among the very first 433 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: British people to ever go surfing. Play is that for? 434 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: You're just making that up? Is that real? Yeah? So 435 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: she was actually an avid body boarder in her home country, 436 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: So when she and what's up? I said, nope, that's 437 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: it's not true. So when she and her husband went 438 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: on vacation to Hawaii and this is back in she 439 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: was eager to try out the hot news sport. And 440 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: at that point there was only one brit known to 441 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: have taken up surfing before her, and that was Prince Edward. 442 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: Which is funny because you know, surfing did start out 443 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: as the sport of kings. So do we have any 444 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: idea what Christie thought of the experience, Like, did she 445 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: have fun? Yeah, it seems like she did so. In 446 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: her autobiography, she later wrote, quote, I learned to become 447 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: expert at surfing, or at any rate expert from the 448 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: European point of view. The moment of complete triumph was 449 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: the day I kept my balance and came right into shore, 450 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: standing upright on my board, which is impressive. That is 451 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: pretty impressive. Although if you ask me, I feel like 452 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: Christie's real claim to fame is the staggering volume of 453 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: quality work she produced in her lifetime. I don't know 454 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: if you've heard much about this. All told, she wrote 455 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: sixties six mystery novels and fifteen short story collections, as 456 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: well as six romance novels under the name Mary West Maycott. Now, 457 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: her most famous novel is probably And Then There Were None, 458 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: which is typically considered to be the best selling mystery 459 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: novel of all times. There's an estimated one hundred million 460 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: copies sold. Now, as for Christie herself, the Guinness Book 461 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: of World Records recognizes her as the best selling novelist 462 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: of all time, with an estimated four billion books sold 463 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: to date. And as if all of that isn't enough, 464 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: Christie is also the third most widely translated author in 465 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: the world, just behind William Shakespeare and the Bible or 466 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: whoever wrote the Bible. So that's right. Uh, you know, 467 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: the thing that stuns me is how she actually cranked 468 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: out that many books. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, it's a 469 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: good question. But but before we try to answer that, 470 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: I do want to give a little bit of background 471 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: on how Christie got into writing in the first place. Now, 472 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: is the daughter of a wealthy family in late nineteenth 473 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: century England. One of Christie's earliest acts was actually one 474 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: of defiance, so against her mother's wishes, she actually taught 475 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: herself to read and write. That that's crazy. So she's 476 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: like the best selling novelist of all time. But she 477 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: didn't actually have like a formal education. Yeah, not until 478 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: she was fifteen or sixteen, when she finally convinced her 479 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: mother to let her attend finishing school in Paris. But 480 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: her literary talent actually manifested well before that. This was 481 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: in her early teens. Actually, at the age of eleven, 482 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: Christie made her print debut with a poem published in 483 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: a local London newspaper. By her late teens, she had 484 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: multiple poems public in the Poetry Review, and she had 485 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: a few short stories under her belt too by that 486 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: point where those mysteries actually they weren't. I mean, Christie 487 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: never thought about writing a detective story until one day 488 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: when her older sister, Margaret, basically dared her to try 489 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: one out. So, according to Margaret, mystery stories required complicated 490 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: plots and weaving all the pieces together would be just 491 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: too much for her little sister to handle. It feels 492 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: like such an older sibling like a thing to say, 493 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: But but she accepted that challenge. It seems like yes 494 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: she did, and just looking around, Christie found a wealth 495 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: of inspiration. I mean, they were lonely widows, small town doctors, 496 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: military gentleman, plus all the local feuds and family rivalries 497 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: that an avid people watcher would ever need to write 498 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: these stories. And so all of these casual observations of 499 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: village drama kind of sparked these ideas for new characters, 500 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: new plots, and so Christie doggedly recorded these in her 501 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: hundred plus notebooks. Then later on Christie would piece together, 502 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, all of the these things into various plot ideas. 503 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: And this was a task she often enjoyed while snacking 504 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: on apples and relaxing in her huge Victorian bathtub. That's 505 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: how I prepped for all of our episodes. By the 506 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: less we have that in common. I know, I I 507 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: wish I could write like that. It's it's amazing. So 508 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: she dreamed up all these plots in her bathtub. Well, 509 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: the ones early in her career are probably the safest 510 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: bet for that, And as time went on, bathtubs got 511 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: smaller and smaller, until Christy finally ditched the tub for 512 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: a writing desk. As she once lamented, nowadays, they don't 513 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: build baths like that. I'd rather given up the practice. 514 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: It feels like a shame. It feels like between all 515 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: her family money and profit from her book, she could 516 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: have like afforded to get herself a bigger bathtub if 517 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: she wanted. But what do we know about her actual 518 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: writing process, Like, after she had all these notes assembled 519 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: and the plot mapped out, how fast was she at 520 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: actually writing the books are? According to Christie's grandson Matthew Pritchard, 521 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: she would spend about three months on a book at 522 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: the peak of her career, and that covered everything from 523 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: the first draft to the fine will edit that would 524 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: be sent off to the publisher. And as impressive a 525 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: turnaround as that is, it's even more impressive when you 526 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: consider that Christie typically worked on at least two books 527 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: at a time. And it may sound crazy, but that's 528 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: the kind of pace she had to maintain in order 529 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: to meet these deadlines. So for many years of her career, 530 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: Christie stuck to a schedule of two books per year, 531 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: including one that was always timed for the holiday season, 532 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: what the marketers called the Christie for Christmas book. And 533 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: you know the reason I bring up all of this 534 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: is because it perfectly teas up probably my favorite Agatha 535 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: Christie quote, the time that she credited her tremendous output 536 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: for being and I quote a sausage machine, a perfect 537 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: sausage machine. I like that quote. It feels like you 538 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: should have saved that for the fact off, Yeah, probably 539 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: should have. Well, So I don't want to make it 540 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: seem like all of this came super easy for Christie. 541 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean, she was an incredibly disciplined writer, and it 542 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: clearly took a toll on her. In fact, there was 543 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: one time when a reporter asked about her writing process 544 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: and her response was, quote, there is no agony like it. 545 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: You sit in a room biting pencils, looking at a typewriter, 546 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: walking about, or casting yourself down on a sofa, feeling 547 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: like you want to cry your head off. Oh man, 548 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: So even a perfect sausage machine like breaks down every 549 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: once in a while. Yeah, it kind of seems like it. Well. 550 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: I do like the way you described her books as 551 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: clockwork mysteries, because the thing that always struck me about 552 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: our stories is how neatly everything fits together, Like the 553 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: solution to our mysteries is always straightforward and and based 554 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: on these simple observations that anyone can make. So it's 555 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: not like you need a fancy higher education to figure 556 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: it out, which I'm sure is a huge part of 557 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: the appeal. I I feel like you might look at 558 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: it and think, like, Christie fooled you the first time. 559 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: But there's this promise that if you're extra observant the 560 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: next time around, you might crack the case before Miss 561 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: Marble or or erkal Pro or whoever. Yeah, and you know, 562 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: if not, it's still fun to be fooled, I think. 563 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: I mean, that's after all, why we read Miss Trees 564 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: in the first place. Absolutely, But there is still one 565 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: last mystery we need to get to the bottom of. 566 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: Who's taking home today's fact off trophy. All right, let's 567 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: kick it off. Yeah, there's this great story about Sir 568 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle, and I don't know if it's true, 569 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: but apparently he was a total prankster. He supposedly once 570 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: sent a telegram to twelve of his friends that said 571 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: flee at once the secret is discovered, and within a 572 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: day they'd all fled the country, which is something I'm 573 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: sure they'd all laughed about, you know, for years to 574 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: cub Yeah, those who can get back into the country. 575 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start off with an act that Christie 576 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: fact It turns out one of her most famous characters, 577 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: the Belgian detective Ericiell poiro was the first and so 578 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: far only fictional character to receive an obituary in The 579 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: New York Times, And the funny part is that Poirot's 580 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: creator was far less broken up about his passing in 581 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: The New York Times. Was the detective metas fate in 582 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: a book called Curtains Poirot's Last Case, which was released 583 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: in the US and nineteen five. But Christie had actually 584 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: written the manuscript for Pero's Last Case way back in 585 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, largely because she'd grown so bored and 586 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: tired of the character that she was already dreaming of 587 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: killing him off. You know, I know Conan Doyle, you know, 588 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: tried to kill off Sherlock at one point for the 589 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: same reason. But I actually didn't know that Christie hated 590 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: Paros so much. What what what did she dislike about him? Well, 591 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: she called him quote detestable, bombastic, tiresome, egocentric, little creep. 592 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: So it sounds like she pretty much disliked everything about 593 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: sounds like it, alright. The next fact is one of 594 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: the great unsolved mysteries that Conan Doyle left behind for us, 595 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: and that's the true location of Sherlock's famous London apartment 596 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: at b Baker Street. Now you might assume the address 597 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: is the location, but that is sadly not the case. 598 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: Back when mysteries were written, Bake Street addresses didn't go 599 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: as high as two twenty one, and con Into a 600 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: flat out refused to reveal his inspiration for the apartment. 601 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: So for going on a hundred years now, scholars have 602 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: been trying to track it down for themselves. You've got 603 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: these dedicated fans who have scrutinized every number mentioned in 604 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: the Holmes books for clues, and some of even mapped 605 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: out all the backyards on Baker Street, hoping that one 606 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: of them will match up these details, you know, that 607 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: were mentioned in the stories. No locus of yet, but 608 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: you can be sure that someone will keep trying. So 609 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: here's a fun one. I found out about one of 610 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: my favorite TV detectives, and that's Inspector Gadget. So accordin 611 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: to i g N, Inspector Gadget was originally meant to 612 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: have a big, bushy mustache, and he actually does have 613 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: one in the pilot episode. But after someone at MGM 614 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: viewed that first episode, the studio called the producers and 615 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: complained that Gadget looked too much like Inspector Clusseau from 616 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: the Pink Panther movies. So in order to avoid a lawsuit, 617 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: Inspector Gadget shaved off mustache. All right, so weirdly actually 618 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: looked up some Inspector Gadget trivia too, And one of 619 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: the things I've always wondered is how did he become 620 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: this halfman, half machine hybrid that we all know and love. 621 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: And it's a mystery that was never addressed in the 622 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: original show. But according to an official Inspector Gadget trading card, 623 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: from which, as you know, I always keep in my 624 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: wallet at all times, Inspector Gadget was an average police 625 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: inspector named John Brown until one fateful day when he 626 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: slipped on a banana peal well right down a flight 627 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: of stairs. The next day, he woke up from an 628 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: operation only to find that now he had and I quote, 629 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: more than thirteen hundred crime fighting gadgets attached to his body, 630 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: which is kind of a dark origin story. It is 631 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait for like Todd Phillips to direct that, 632 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: But it also solves the mystery I've always wondered about 633 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: and today is Halloween, so I think you win the 634 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: trophy this week. Congratulations, you out gadgeted me, all right 635 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: after all these years. So all right, well that's gonna 636 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: do it for today's Part Time Genius from Gabe Lowell, 637 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: Mango and me. Thanks so much for listening, have a 638 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: happy Halloween, and we'll be back soon with another episode. 639 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of I Heart Radio. 640 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 641 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 642 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: your favorite show.