WEBVTT - Wynton Marsalis: How Jazz Explains Democracy 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:08.520 I've loved jazz ever since I was a little boy, 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.600 and part of what makes it so unique is that 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.400 it's like any other form of music. There is a tune, 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:17.160 you have to know, a key, you've got to play 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.200 it in a chord structure you have to follow. But 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.200 to be really faithful to jazz, you have to both 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.639 stay within those parameters and make things up a little 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.360 as you go along. To make the most of a song, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.159 you've got to both play it and create out of it. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.840 So why am I telling you this? I've been thinking 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:39.879 about that a lot over the last several months as 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.960 we've been living through these unprecedented times. We've all been 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.040 forced to improvise. But if we can do it in 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.440 harmony with one another, we have the chance to reimagine 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.200 what our entire society looks like and how it operates, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.080 and come out on the other side of this as 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:03.960 a more inclusive, kinder, equitable, and successful nation. If there's 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.000 no better art form to explain these times in jazz, 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:09.679 then I'm very lucky to have with me today one 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.440 of the greatest jazz musicians of all time, my longtime 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:20.800 friend went to Marsalis. Wenten is arguably the greatest trumpeter alive. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.080 He's won nine Grammys. He's the only artist ever to 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:26.480 win Grammys in the same year for both jazz and 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.520 classical records, and he did it twice. In his early twenties, 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.840 he became the first jazz musician to receive the Fuel 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.600 of Surprise from Music. He's received both the National Medal 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.679 of Arts and the National Humanities Medal, and performed for 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:44.840 Hillary and Me at the White House that one of 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.320 our national Millennium events with Marion McPartland. The main guest 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:54.400 was President Buckliffe Hovel of the Czech Republic. He led 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:59.200 perhaps the only peaceful revolution in the world, powered by jazz. 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.880 They met in the Jazz Clubs. It's co founder of 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.480 Jazz at the Lincoln Center. Wentn't has helped to grow 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:11.799 the global jazz community through performance, advocacy, and education. He's 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:16.080 a passionate champion of equality and social justice, constantly using 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.440 his gifts to celebrate our common humanity and to show 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.040 us what we can do if we work together. That's 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.320 true more than anything else, and two of his most 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.720 recent works, The Democracy Suite and The ever Funky Lowdown. 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:32.880 I've been Blessed to know went in for more than 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.160 twenty five years now, and I've had a lot of 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.079 chances to listen to and to learn from him. I 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.040 come away from every performance or conversation knowing I have 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:49.160 learned from listening, and knowing now I have a deeper 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:56.720 appreciation for jazz, for America, for the human experience, and 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.760 for Winting Marsalis. I very I had to talk to 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.520 him now went and welcome. Yes, sir, it's a great pleasure, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.160 on of course, to sit out and talk with you, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.720 as it always is. So thank you for that that 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.400 very flowery introduction and all those all those kind acones. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.840 Thank you. I remember once I was talking to you 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.720 on the phone and I asked you how much of 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:26.639 your great gift was God given and how much it 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.840 was his work. And I told you a story about 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.160 how I decided not to become a musician when I 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.320 was sixteen. I looked in the mirror and I said, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.280 I'm happier playing my saxophone than anything I've ever done. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.640 But no matter how hard I work, I'll never be 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.040 as good as Cold Frank. And uh, you said something 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.840 to me about Cold frand I'll never forget. You said, yeah, 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:54.040 that's true, but he said, don't underestimate hard work. And 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:58.720 you sent me a tape of Coltrane playing at age seventeen. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.280 You remember that, Remember that he said he's flapped half 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.720 the time. And I listened to you and I realized 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.640 that was true, and how much better he got the 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.160 longer he lived. And then I realized that at seventeen 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.919 and flat, he was better than I ever thought about. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.800 I love that you re ready's today tap of him 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.000 in the navy, that's right. But he I think he 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.400 gave my seventeen or nineteen. Yeah, well, you know, we 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:29.360 like to We like the joke. But I always love 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.960 the fact that you you played, and you brought that 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.159 consciousness to people, you know, And I think that that's 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.520 one thing that's been truly been lost and our political discourse, 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.599 looking at all the debates, everything that's going on, and 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.000 you take the pick the years you want. Did the 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.920 power of our arts and the American arts to heal us, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.760 to bring us together? The virtuosity of the artists, the 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.840 kind of hipness and the soulfulness of a Coltrane. None 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.760 of us are gonna play like Train. I mean, you know, 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.839 Train was was what Train was. But the fact that 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.960 we know John Coltrane, and we know what I Love 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.800 Supreme is, and we know what jazz is. It was 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.760 always kind of a binding thing, like, yes, Coltrane had 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.600 prodigious talent, but he didn't he wasn't like Charlie Parker, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.400 and he felt like he had no talent. And yes, 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.599 Coltrane worked this behind off and he became much much 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.920 better as the years past. Those two things are always 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.080 true about him. And it was also true as it 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.359 doesn't mean you will practice and be as great as 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.279 him in terms of whatever you're aspiring to. But in 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.520 jazz you can achieve the sound of your person. Nothing 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.719 keeps you from achieving that. It's just depends on what 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.240 your definition of virtuosity is. And I know the things 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.839 you learned just from being a jazz musician, once you 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.480 were able to apply them to all the other things 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.280 that you knew, that just made you so much stronger 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.840 in dealing with other people. Because jazz is a very 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.040 empathetic music. We've often talked about her. Jazz is more 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.240 than just America's original unique art form, but really it's 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.119 the music of democracy at its best, and as you've said, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.720 part of america mythology At what point in your career 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.040 did you think about the connection of jazz to democracy 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.360 and what prompted you to do it. I think early on, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.960 because I grew up with a jazz musician and always 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.240 hearing my father and the other musicians talk about America, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.919 and also my my father's viewpoint. He was always in 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.840 the barbershop arguing against points of view that we all 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.800 had in the seventies. That was the Black Power time 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.800 and the kind of first time black people had a voice, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.040 and the younger people we had our afros and our 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.640 our platform shoes and all the things that we had, 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.200 and we were all talking in the same way that 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.800 we had been talked to. And my father was always 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.000 so so even minded. At that time, of course it 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.760 was an embarrassment to me, but he was always speaking 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:55.160 for against racism, against retaliation against people, always at a 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.239 very deep spiritual connection to the human condition as a whole. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.240 He always was talking about larger thoughts and that was 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.080 not what we were thinking about. So I always connected 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.039 jazz to a democracy through him and other jazz musicians. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.080 What do you make of this last selection? Is that 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.520 an affirmation of our common humanity or a reaffirmation of 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.400 our deep divisions. You know, I think that is both 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.280 it ties into what we were talking about with jazz 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.600 because it just so so happens at the fact that 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.920 we have the type of diversity we have in our democracy, 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.520 uh is making it hard to undermine the will of 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.600 the voter, and we have that with in jazz bands, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.280 with an individual who is improvising, with the collective of 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.400 the group playing a written part or improvising. A lot 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.760 of the stuff we do is by choice. The rhythm 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.640 section is considered to be the back line and the 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:47.600 horns are called the front line, but the rhythm section 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.360 defines the music. So we have horn players versus a 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.480 rhythm section versus us as a group, and we find 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.880 that dynamic playing out. That's interesting that the states are now, 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:03.560 regardless of party, upon you to be loyal to government, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.720 regardless of party, and that has a lot in common 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.720 with jazz because a single solos can stand up and 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.520 play thirty minutes a solo themselves, and the band has 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.960 to has to police what's going on, it has to choose. Hey, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.720 it's it's six of us up here. You can't play 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.320 a thirty minute solo if you're a drummer. You're okay, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.640 you have the loudest instrument, but no one can hear 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.120 anything but drums, so we see. I don't know, I'm 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.240 giving you kind of long, long answer. But this election 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.000 and all of this is so so so full of 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.720 implication because, as you know, a democracy is not a 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.440 given in the world, no, and they're very hard to preserve. 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.960 Ours has been around a long time, and people take 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.000 a lot of things for granted once it's been around 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.240 a long time, and so everybody levels around the edges 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:55.200 to take advantage of getting what they want until pretty 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.360 seting the foundations are weak, and I think that's what's 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:02.240 happening to us, but this could be strengthening. One of 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.520 the things I liked about ever funking lowdown is that 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:13.120 you basically talk about how this divisiveness its us in 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.360 them world is kind of like a drug. You you 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.520 get addicted to it. You've got to be against something 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:25.320 in somebody, and reconciliation takes is harder work. I remember 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.360 I spent three billion dollars of the American people's tax 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.720 money to sequence the human genome, and the most important 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.280 thing we learned from a political and social point of 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.640 view is that we're all nine and nine and a 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.360 half per cents the same, but we spend nine and 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.160 nine and a half a percent of our time focusing 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.439 on the half of percent. Now, to turn everything into 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.200 a zero sum game is a bad way to run 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:55.200 a railroad or a country. And I see you trying 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.720 to be a force for reconciliation, and I think that 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.960 live in a time where, in different ways, almost all 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.440 of us are being programmed right for division right. And 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.160 you know, when you look at the religious traditions, if 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.760 we look into Junior Christian traditional, what the devil does, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.840 the devil symbolically simplifies. So for those who may not 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.160 believe in in that religion or have a different belief system, 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.240 it's a simplification to take all nuances out and give 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.840 you a non choice choice, and then the ever funky lowdown. 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.520 That's what Mr Game does. He points out that there 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.040 are others. Then he tells you what's wrong with them. 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.400 I think I heard that they've been committing the various 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.920 climes and they don't believe in God. Then he says 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.320 you have to beat them. We must strike first to 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.480 prevent what they may be trying to do to us, 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.320 and to save them, and the ever funky lowdown is 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.359 when you've beaten them. He says, losers want to be winners. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.160 He speaks in the terms of losers and winners. And 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.040 then what the losers have to do is they have 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.959 to accommodate the winner's vision of them. Let me take 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.840 you back to the school yard. Most kids just give 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.720 in and follow the bully, but a few back away, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:11.320 threatening some type of retaliation. Whether subservient or resistant, each 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.880 will adjust their philosophy to accommodate defeat. That's the illusion 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:21.160 of choice, the old binary hustle. Let's see versus who too, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.640 God fearing versus heathens, Democrats versus Republicans. Yes, there are 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.840 two sides to every coin, but it's still the same coin. 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.480 Losers have two choices. Entertain us by playing out our 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:41.280 vision of them as meek, emasculated justice or excite us 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.400 playing out our vision of them as dangerous, captured savages. 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.520 It's much more provocative when you when you begin to 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:53.000 attack people or attack something. But still, if you take 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.200 the most brilliant of all of us, we still don't 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.520 know anything in relation to what there is to be known, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.600 because we can't rise above whatever our press active may 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.520 happen to be. The problem of human living requires more 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.959 than the vision of a single person, whoever that person is. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.480 We say in our trumpets section, it's four of us 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.000 and one of our trumpet players we were going to 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:15.680 play a party was written for me, but he would 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.880 have been much better playing it. His name is Marcus 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.240 print Up. So when I said, I think Printaple played 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.520 this part much better, we all knew he would. So 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.559 the catch of the band all started laughing, Oh, give 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.600 it to print You're scared to play your part. You're 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.960 scared to play the part. And Printer said, well, it's 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.320 four of us back here, and we all have different 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:33.840 things we do, but if you put the four of 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.080 us together, we make one hell of a trumpet player. 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.000 So it's like to conceive of the talent that we 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.200 have in the world or in the United States of America, 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.880 that we only have a vision of how to keep 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.720 other people down or beat up on people who don't 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.599 have agency, and people with the most agency in the 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.079 society spent a lot of that time figuring out how 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.520 to how to work on a sophisticated kleptocracy. And that's 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.839 on both sides of the coin instead of figuring out 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.360 how a free to potential in all the power we 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.480 have and bringing us together and using our intellectual firepower, 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.440 spiritual firepower, and the best of our tradition. Because the 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.320 best of our tradition is us coming together. We should 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.640 never forget even something that's divisive as race relations. And 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.920 you know, I'm a Southerner. I grew up with great 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.240 uh prejudice and ignorance and in segregation. I don't play 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.120 around with it. I never joke or act like it 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.600 wasn't for real. It's for real, and it was for real. 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.280 But when I look through my own history, can I 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.880 honestly say I didn't have white Americas that said, well, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.360 I'm with you in this struggle. And I think that 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.680 our mythology hurts us as a nation because whenever there's 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.199 something negative, it's picked upon and it's spread and the 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.720 legacy of success that we've had has to be used 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.959 to combat all of the many failures we've had. Harmony, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.200 that's right, harmony. My little brother asked me what is 0:13:55.240 --> 0:14:00.280 the opposite of disharmony, and I said, unison. Wow, So 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.959 we started to laugh. We started to laugh about it 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.560 because because because dis harmony and chaos. When you talk 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.400 about dis harmony and chaos, uh, the you you would 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.559 think that the opposite of it is harmony, But actually 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.360 the opposite of it is unison because everybody playing the 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.600 same thing. That's also what you do not want. You 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.360 don't want everybody having the same opinion. You want to 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.800 be forced to harmonize with people, to make choices to 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:28.400 go in and out in harmony is one of the 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:33.680 greatest arts of music. I wanted, asked Lenda Bernstein about harmony. 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.280 I'd read his his class on harmony of the Young 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.200 People's Council. He said, Man, that's the most difficult thing 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.680 to to describe, he said, because harmony is like a 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.120 conversation in which a person is the center of the 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.560 conversation in one moment and their point of view is 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:51.120 absolutely of no interest. They have to become active as listeners, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.640 he said. So in harmony progression, you know, at one 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.280 point a note C may be the root of the 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.520 card and the most important thing, he said, But the 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.120 very next second that may be a flat thirteen of 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.640 some upper extension of the of the harmony. And then 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.400 on the next it may be a note that does 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.840 not even sound. So it's it's an art that it's vertical. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.800 It lays out in blocks, and it's horizon, it lays 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.680 out in time. So I think, Uh, yeah, what you're 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.600 saying about harmony, it's it's a very complex thing to 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.280 teach and to understand more with my guests went to 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:41.560 Marsalis after this. Let me ask you about another recent 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:47.040 fist you did, the Democracy Suite. Uh, what did you 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:53.400 want the message to be? And if jazz loving policeman 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 in New York hered it, how would you like him 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.640 to feel? Um, I would like him to feel that 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.960 he's a part of a great ongoing process that needs 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.480 his industry and his energy to take us to a 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.440 higher and better place that he may want to go in. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.280 One of my best friends in the world was a 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.880 Chicago City policeman in what Chicago. I was the best 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.280 man in his wedding, Officer Tony Parker, and Uh, we 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.960 were good friends. We are good friends and will will 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.400 be good friends for life. And we've argued the kind 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.680 of police abuse and arguing and all the stuff that 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.720 goes on. And I think that it's it's important for 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:36.560 us to understand that corruption exists everywhere in the system, 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.800 and and for us to not give people who are 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.120 not corrupt put them in a place where they have 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.680 to co sign corruption, but also to not act like 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.480 we don't know that there is corruption. So I think 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.720 in the Democracy Suite, I deal with all things that 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.960 we all have dealt with in this time. Spotlight on 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.840 one of the movements in the Democracy Suite that dance 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.280 we do that you know we love to do, and 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.400 that's about all the different protests around the world where 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.600 people found a solidarity with with Brianna Taylor, George Floyd. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.680 They found that because the people everyone in the world 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.919 can can identify with not having agency and not having 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.439 power and being abused by an individual or group that 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:45.240 does have power. So I tried to not simplify by 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.720 things into black white issues or right wrong issues, but 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.160 I try to try to bring nuances in that way 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.399 to to the dance we do. Even in the course 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.840 of protests and people hitting tambourines, playing grooves, singing, infect 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.560 your songs, and it does not make the song less 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.800 serious or less for real and keeping their slogans black 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.880 lives matter. It's not less real than we shall overcome. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.119 The one kind of somber movement. It's not even somber. 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.760 It's called Deeper than dreams, and it's about all of 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.480 us who lost loved ones during this period that you 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.920 didn't get a chance to say goodbye to your loved one. 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.159 That transcends all politics and all other things. So I 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.040 tell my friends sometimes they say, man, I h you 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.920 know I can't sleep at night. I said, well, that's 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.359 the old folks coming to you. They're coming to you 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.240 because they y'all have to heal in a space that's 0:18:36.280 --> 0:19:01.080 deeper than dreams. Uh. You lost your dad earlier this 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.160 year to COVID. Uh. We had a good, long life 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.560 and left a remarkable legacy, and you and his other sons. 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.520 From the first time I ever heard about you, listen 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.560 to your brother Branford player. I've always been fascinated by 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.040 your family story and the role your father played, and 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.639 the letter you wrote in tribute to him was one 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.800 of the most moving things I think I ever read, 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.760 and all the more powerful for saying that your hurt 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.240 was no more valid or stronger than that of so 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.960 many others who lost people, which I think your dad 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.639 also said, not long for it. So tell us about 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.320 him and what impact he had on your growing up 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.560 and on your life and what impact is loss has 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.320 had on what you do now? Well, you know, for 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.000 I appreciate you your comments on him. I mean, he 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:00.959 was my man, you know, went from the time I 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.480 was born as like I hung with him and it 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.800 was not glamorous like he was just he was a guy. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.480 My father was not a a physical guy, heroic wanting 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:15.119 to whatever strike want to strike people or be uh. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:19.080 He was very philosophical person who who when he was 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.040 growing up. He told me he had gotten bullied by 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.560 people because that wasn't his personality. And I learned more 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.800 about what it meant to be a human being just 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.800 watching him. He talked to everybody the same. If he 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:34.680 had the chance to meet you, he would be honest. 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:36.920 He would be just as respectful as he would with 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.320 a homeless person in the street. He would talk to 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:41.639 homeless cats and come back, man, this cat had an 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.920 interesting story. You see. He used to be an architect. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:45.879 He could go into the whole thing that he had 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.000 talked about. And I saw my father playing empty clubs 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:54.719 for for the seventeen years I lived with him. I 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.919 saw him be in situations that would humiliate any person. 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:02.920 Each handled it all with racy sophistication. He studied, he practiced, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.040 he taught. He was a person of the community. He 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.639 played for no people. He played just as hard to 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.119 an empty room as he would play for people. I 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.480 always tell the one story, I never really liked jazz 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.280 growing up. I was just always I like to be 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.640 in clubs and here older people down on their luck. 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:20.639 Here the stuff they talked about, all the kind of 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.720 nasty talking things that went on. So I always loved 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.719 being in an environment. And I was fortunate to be 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.240 in the environment because I was with him. I knew 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.320 how to be quiet, how to just be in my space. 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.280 But I loved that. I did not like the music 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.720 that much. When I started to get into the music, 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.359 I was eleven or going into being twelve, and he 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.920 played in the club called Lewin Charlie's, and it was 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.040 late at night. He closed the club up. There was 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.320 nobody in this club but one man who was drunk. 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:48.640 And I went to my father and I said, man, 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.800 let's go. You know, it's two o'clock, it's only me 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.840 and you. Let's let's look this guy here. He was drunk, 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:57.240 and we looked out into the club. Empty club nobody 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.920 in it. My father playing at piano. My father looks 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.600 at me and he he says, Man, this gig against 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.639 at two thirty and to thirty. Man, let's get this 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:07.440 guy out of here and close up. Charlie is the 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.679 old club on it. Charlie is gone. Let's let's go home. 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.560 We had a thirty minute drive home. My daddy told me, man, 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:16.439 sit your ass down and listen to some music for 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.840 a change. So it actually was. It was actually funny 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.879 because it's only meet him. So I actually sat down 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:24.840 and for all the years of being in the club, 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:26.520 then I guess since I was two years old, I've 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.000 been in clubs, it's the first time I really just 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.560 really listened to him playing. Now. Of course, I grew 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.440 up here in practice, so his song was a part 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.600 of my life. I looked around that club and I thought, 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.000 what makes a person do what this man is doing? 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:51.639 Playing for no people it two in the morning, and uh, 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:56.199 you know that that shaped my life, like just the 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.480 integrity he showed. And he played a pile of piano 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.399 in that thirty minutes. And then I said to myself, 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:04.639 I wonder if I could learn how to play like him, 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:06.640 because I mainly teased him at because he was such 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.200 a serious man. I was always joking with him, even 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:13.119 the last conversation I had with him before he before 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:14.639 he went in the hospital and then he died a 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.600