Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up, an
Speaker 3: SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Kara Klank and.
Speaker 2: I'm Li's a Trigger. We talk SVU true crime celebrity guests.
Speaker 1: I'm up top.
Speaker 3: We catch up, we see what's up, catch up and
Speaker 3: chat and what has been going on. You've been on
Speaker 3: the road. I just went away for a weekends. Tell
Speaker 3: us about your camp weekend.
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 3: I do a little camp weekend with my girls every weekend,
Speaker 3: and like last every weekend, every weekend, sorry, every weekend.
Speaker 1: She's meeting up with the camps every weekend. I have
Speaker 1: no other friends.
Speaker 3: No. Every year and last year they actually incorporated it
Speaker 3: with coming to see us on the road. So this
Speaker 3: year I was like, I'll travel for you guys. So
Speaker 3: I did go to I flew to New York and
Speaker 3: then I drove up to Newport, Rhode Island and it
Speaker 3: was fun. It's very beautiful up there, a lot of
Speaker 3: old mansions and uh, we had a blast. I laughed
Speaker 3: a lot and we had fun and yeah, I explained
Speaker 3: podcasting to a bunch of people that don't really know
Speaker 3: about it. You know, it was fun. And a lot
Speaker 3: of them are fans of you. They're like, oh, she
Speaker 3: comes up on my Instagram. She's so funny. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I know, tell me about it.
Speaker 2: I'm on the grand Baby. Well I'm what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2: Because Taylor Swift has a home and Rhode Island, and I'm.
Speaker 3: A Watch Hill. I believe she's in Watch Hill. Yeah,
Speaker 3: high watch And you'll be very proud of me. Because
Speaker 3: somebody in our group sent a photo that had obviously
Speaker 3: come up on their Facebook or something of Taylor paddle
Speaker 3: boarding with Tavy Gevinson in Rhode Island, and she was like,
Speaker 3: she was there the same weekend as us and I go. Honestly,
Speaker 3: the weather was not good for paddleboarding. It was cold,
Speaker 3: and I don't think her and Tavy had been friends
Speaker 3: for a while. I think this picture is old, like
Speaker 3: I was like doing tailor like detective work. I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't think this is a current picture. Like I'm
Speaker 3: on Business Insider right now.
Speaker 2: And she reportedly paid for the mansion by wiring seventeen
Speaker 2: point seventy five million in cash to a realtor in
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3: Can you believe just the amounts the amounts, I'll take
Speaker 3: it sending you money.
Speaker 1: I'm sending you a venmo for seventeen million. Did you
Speaker 1: get it? Well, it's so funny.
Speaker 2: So it's like the dining room seats eight and the
Speaker 2: kitchen comes with amenities like a sub zero fridge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it does. What are you talking about.
Speaker 2: It's a seventeen million dollars home, you know, right, there's
Speaker 2: a white refrigerator in there.
Speaker 1: So like a dining room for eight.
Speaker 3: It's like, show me where the indoor like pickleball is
Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, there's got to be And now
Speaker 3: you got to show me some shit.
Speaker 2: Wait, so why were you guys in Rhode Island? Does
Speaker 2: someone live there or no? And but you guys got
Speaker 2: a vacation home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got like a.
Speaker 3: Vacation home, very kind of cheesy with like my heart
Speaker 3: is at the beach, you know, follow the waves.
Speaker 1: Of your you know, all the like beachy shit was
Speaker 1: up in the house.
Speaker 3: It was just kind of like everybody lives a little
Speaker 3: bit spread and most people live in the Vermont area,
Speaker 3: like near our camp, but it's just like that's really
Speaker 3: far for me and my sister to go, and I'm
Speaker 3: already flying across the country. So we just did something
Speaker 3: that was mostly three hours for everybody to get there,
Speaker 3: and so it was really fun.
Speaker 1: But I also, you guys sing camp songs. No, but
Speaker 1: we talk about camp a lot.
Speaker 3: We talk about funny stories and like like just funny things,
Speaker 3: and a lot of them are still involved and still
Speaker 3: work there, and you know, like I work sometimes there
Speaker 3: and you know, it's a lot of and like the
Speaker 3: place has changed a lot. We talk about that and
Speaker 3: how what changes we think are good and bad. You know,
Speaker 3: we're in dilums, but they also are all very very funny,
Speaker 3: and we have like a really funny time and just
Speaker 3: like make fun of each other and we had some
Speaker 3: fun dinners out and everything. But I also wanted to
Speaker 3: say that I when I got to New York, I
Speaker 3: flew on a red eye, so I got in at
Speaker 3: like seven am. I went to my sister's house and
Speaker 3: I was just gonna nap for a little bit, but
Speaker 3: she had summerhouse on, so I was like, oh, I'll
Speaker 3: watch a little summer house. I'll be able to talk
Speaker 3: to Lisa, and it was this episode where first of all,
Speaker 3: the girls all have a very very staged conversation in
Speaker 3: an old Navy.
Speaker 1: I'm like, girls, I don't think you're shopping at old Navy.
Speaker 3: Like I remember seeing the clip online and going where
Speaker 3: are they with plastic hangers? And then my sister's like,
Speaker 3: they're at old Navy and I was like, this is crazy,
Speaker 3: but you know, whatever, make the money. But this is
Speaker 3: what blew my mind. And you're gonna think I'm such
Speaker 3: a prude or something. I'm not prude. I just I
Speaker 3: watch Housewives I have not seen I saw a scene
Speaker 3: where Danielle gets naked and gets into bed with a
Speaker 3: guy and they just show him going down on her
Speaker 3: and I was like, they're just.
Speaker 2: Showing them Bravo, Like I missed the go down, but
Speaker 2: she was full as crap crawling on a bed.
Speaker 3: Yes, and then he's under the covers and then he
Speaker 3: comes up from under the covers.
Speaker 2: See I miss that because I turned away and not
Speaker 2: look at her, but crawling Because I do think she's
Speaker 2: just like I mean, I don't want it's rude, but
Speaker 2: like she's pathetic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean she seems like a troubled person. But
Speaker 3: I just like was like, she knows cameras are on her,
Speaker 3: and everybody's just wasted.
Speaker 1: She's a blackout drunk. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It just reminded me of real world shit, like, and
Speaker 3: I just didn't think Bravo kind of had that stuff.
Speaker 3: It's not like I'm oh my god, I've never seen
Speaker 3: reality people get fucked up and have sex. I obviously
Speaker 3: have seen it, and on like on Love Island and stuff,
Speaker 3: people say that it's like.
Speaker 1: Well and you yeah, because in Atlanta they flip the
Speaker 1: cameras up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even on Summer House, Jesse Solomon and it's
Speaker 2: his first season, he brought home a girl and he
Speaker 2: put a towel on the camera. Yeah, Like I saw
Speaker 2: these so fucked up or if she wants people to
Speaker 2: watch or she gets off on I don't really know,
Speaker 2: but her and some game of like I need this
Speaker 2: guy to choose me no matter what, And that's all
Speaker 2: that all of this is about, like and not learning,
Speaker 2: Like if I saw myself acting the way she's acted
Speaker 2: in the past few seasons of Summer House and Winterhouse,
Speaker 2: I would maybe question myself or like figure something out.
Speaker 2: She sees nothing wrong with what she's done. No apology,
Speaker 2: like no growth. She acted insane on Winterhouse this past season,
Speaker 2: and she watched it and was like, no, no regrets.
Speaker 3: I think there's like an illness that sets in with
Speaker 3: like the fame or whatever like.
Speaker 1: But there wasn't any But this is the thing.
Speaker 2: Lindsay and her were friends, and so it was like
Speaker 2: one of Lindsay's friends that she dragged along. And then
Speaker 2: everyone because they hate Lindsay, took Danielle's side last year
Speaker 2: and if you see Paige and Amanda are talking and
Speaker 2: they're like, wait, Danielle's kooky, right, Like they finally are
Speaker 2: realizing that she is a wacko that Lindsay kind of
Speaker 2: pushed throughout all this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just like I felt like an old lady.
Speaker 3: I was like to my sister, I go, did they
Speaker 3: always show this much nudity? Like I just couldn't believe
Speaker 3: I was seeing a butt crack and like, you know,
Speaker 3: we just don't see that on the Housewives really, Like
Speaker 3: definitely there's allusions to them having sex with pirates and
Speaker 3: stuff like that.
Speaker 1: We've seen them shit on the.
Speaker 3: Floor, sure, I just hadn't seen like a full black
Speaker 3: and white night cam someone getting eaten out on uh
Speaker 3: on Bravo, and I guess I just didn't know that
Speaker 3: we were there, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2: So I'm just like, I want Sierra and West to work.
Speaker 2: I want Wes to not be so annoyed with not
Speaker 2: getting fucked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he is such a little star. I'm
Speaker 3: getting the verb. I'm getting the vibe of the show. Like,
Speaker 3: you know, I my sister goes So you don't watch
Speaker 3: the show, you seem to know a lot about what's
Speaker 3: going on.
Speaker 1: I go, well, Lisa tells me a lot.
Speaker 3: But also if you follow Bravo and Botox or Bravo
Speaker 3: Bitches or whatever, like all the accounts you through osmosis,
Speaker 3: I know about people that are below Deck. I know
Speaker 3: about people that are on Summerhouse. You know, so I
Speaker 3: kind of know the main drips and drops. But now
Speaker 3: my big thing is like I like, I mean, I
Speaker 3: was interviewing my sister, I was like, so, what do
Speaker 3: you think about Lindsay and Carl?
Speaker 1: Do you think Carl is gay?
Speaker 3: Like I was just giving getting all of her opinions
Speaker 3: on it, But I'm gonna watch I have it all
Speaker 3: on my DVR for this season.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get into it now, yeah.
Speaker 2: Because they are just so troubled in their relationship. But
Speaker 2: this idea that Carl's an angel and Lindsay's a manipulative
Speaker 2: psycho is just so played out and wrong and like
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't yeah, Like I saw this conversation with his
Speaker 3: parents where I was like, yeah, like they're sitting here
Speaker 3: telling you not to get married, but like they're only
Speaker 3: hearing your.
Speaker 1: Side of it, Like I don't know, it just it didn't.
Speaker 2: But also they shouldn't get married, but you should have
Speaker 2: this conversation with your wife. Like It's just what I'm
Speaker 2: seeing now online is that he was very much setting
Speaker 2: this all up to leave her in this big way.
Speaker 1: Like instead of talking to her.
Speaker 2: It's kind of sand of all ish of like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna win this breakup, right, to set it up in
Speaker 2: the way I need it to look, so don't I
Speaker 2: look good? Because it's also this idea is because he's
Speaker 2: sober and he has gone through tragedy that he's suddenly
Speaker 2: at this like great person and it's right. No, he's
Speaker 2: been awful to women since season one, and we can
Speaker 2: say it's just substance abuse, but it's not because we
Speaker 2: know someone that sent me an apology email or DM
Speaker 2: that's been like an asshole to me. And he was
Speaker 2: very much like I'm getting sober, blah blah blah, can
Speaker 2: you forgive me? And I was going to take a
Speaker 2: few moments before responding, and I was gonna respond like, good.
Speaker 1: Luck on sobriety. That's very hard.
Speaker 2: I support you, but also I think you have a
Speaker 2: regressive view on race and women that has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with your alcoholism. Yeah, but before I can even respond,
Speaker 2: he started contacting mutual friends of ours and trying to
Speaker 2: get my phone number and relaying more apologies, and he
Speaker 2: wanted to be forgiven right then and there. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's actually not how sobriety or nine steps,
Speaker 2: tens or whatever twelve steps work. And I talked to
Speaker 2: someone else who's been sober for decades who's like, that's
Speaker 2: not how this works. And I'm like, yeah, you can't
Speaker 2: demand forgiveness. But then since then, I've gotten clips of
Speaker 2: him in my explore page or like it showed something
Speaker 2: showed up on my YouTube yesterday, and he does suck.
Speaker 1: It's like alcohol or not, you suck.
Speaker 2: It's him talking about how he hates Neil deGrasse Tyson
Speaker 2: because he doesn't hate trans people.
Speaker 3: It's like it's crazy, yeah, sober or not? I hate
Speaker 3: your worldview, like you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah so. And also like what.
Speaker 2: Carl is mad at is lindsay going, can you please
Speaker 2: make a job?
Speaker 1: Have a job.
Speaker 2: I need you to make money so if we have
Speaker 2: a kid, I can like stay home for a little bit.
Speaker 2: And he's like that crazy bitch wants me to work,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you are actually in your forties and
Speaker 2: why don't you have a job, Like she's not the
Speaker 2: crazy one. But then also what the internet is saying
Speaker 2: is like we're denying that they're not on this show
Speaker 2: that they're making money for and that he is making
Speaker 2: money off the internet and like deals.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. But they also live in an
Speaker 1: apartment that's ten grand a month.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Caitlin was saying Cage's place is like nine
Speaker 3: grand a month.
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, Page.
Speaker 2: Has one of the top five podcasts in the world
Speaker 2: right now, and she does fashion things with Amazon and
Speaker 2: she does correspondence stuff like Age is making money, so
Speaker 2: that's different. She can afford it, but Carl doesn't. Like
Speaker 2: he's also not living there. I mean, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well I don't know, but it's so funny. So on
Speaker 2: my little my trip with some friends, one of my
Speaker 2: guy friends mentioned like, how Arianna it's to get over
Speaker 2: Sandoval and not be angry, And I fucking lost it
Speaker 2: on this motherfucker. I was just giving fact. After he goes, wait,
Speaker 2: you know a lot more than I do. I go, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why it's confusing. You have dumb ass opinions like that,
Speaker 2: you're way in and after I just I was like,
Speaker 2: and then this and the house, and he goes, that's
Speaker 2: his mom, and he's like, I don't know any of this.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, so stop it.
Speaker 2: Stop fucking defending your shit when you know nothing about him.
Speaker 2: He still owes his mother two hundred thousand dollars, Like fuck.
Speaker 1: Off, he still does.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Anyone being like Arianna, move on, it's like it's also
Speaker 3: it's TV. So if it was a TV plot, yes,
Speaker 3: you would want someone to move on. In a TV
Speaker 3: plot of scripted characters, you'd be like, we've been on this.
Speaker 1: For too long.
Speaker 3: They're real people like this really happened to her in
Speaker 3: front of the whole fuck three months ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like she's gonna be unpacking it forever, and people
Speaker 2: are using her like financial and like fame, success and
Speaker 2: already dating someone as like reasons to like, well, then
Speaker 2: you're over it, right, it's nine years. It took me like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's misogyny everywhere. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I went to a little party last week that I
Speaker 3: know that I would have gone to with you if
Speaker 3: you were still living in la.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was out there.
Speaker 2: It was tough because I think it was in one
Speaker 2: of the locations I've always dreamed of going.
Speaker 3: Yes, So I was like, well, I can I think
Speaker 3: I can say. I mean, I I went to the
Speaker 3: Hack season three premiere party at the Chateau Marmont, and
Speaker 3: I had only ever been to the Chateau Marmont one time,
Speaker 3: to the bar when I brought my parents, which is
Speaker 3: so crazy, but I lived up the street from it,
Speaker 3: like I lived down the street from it for so long.
Speaker 3: My parents were in town, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: let's just go pop.
Speaker 1: In there and have a drink at the bar.
Speaker 3: And it was early, so they were like and it
Speaker 3: was a Saturday, but they were like, yeah, you guys
Speaker 3: can sit here, but like in ninety minutes, we have
Speaker 3: to give your table away. We were like great, So
Speaker 3: we just had like a drink and saw a little
Speaker 3: bit of the bar, but I had never seen like
Speaker 3: the hotel and everything. And when I first walked in,
Speaker 3: people were smoking cigarettes, and I just remember thinking, that's weird,
Speaker 3: Like La is a really anti cigarette town. It feels
Speaker 3: like there's parts of LA like Burbank, where it is
Speaker 3: completely illegal to smoke anywhere outside that's public, like you
Speaker 3: have to smoke on your own property. And I just
Speaker 3: was like surprised. And my friend that went with me
Speaker 3: was like, he goes, well, it's the chateau. It's kind
Speaker 3: of anything goes here. And I was like, oh, I
Speaker 3: didn't even know. He knows everything about it.
Speaker 1: Was a guy who was it. No, I did go
Speaker 1: with Guy.
Speaker 3: I drove Guy, but I brought my friend John Millheiser
Speaker 3: as my h Okay, okay, it's a very funny comic.
Speaker 1: Follow him on Instagram. He's so funny everybody.
Speaker 2: He is the one who got us Marsha Gay Harden, Yes,
Speaker 2: famously famously he was our connect to Marcia Gay and
Speaker 2: he so Guy.
Speaker 3: I ended up picking up Guy as well, so the
Speaker 3: three of us showed up together.
Speaker 1: We were kind of like a crew the whole time.
Speaker 3: But I got to meet funny people I know from
Speaker 3: the Internet that I that I got to be friend
Speaker 3: and it was really fun and I saw a lot
Speaker 3: of fun people, and I was like, this would have
Speaker 3: been a really great Lisa moment if she was still
Speaker 3: in LA.
Speaker 1: But you know, it was you're having great moments.
Speaker 2: Because I love that show and I've always wanted to
Speaker 2: go to the Chateau.
Speaker 1: So that was hard.
Speaker 2: But I did get an invite, and I think I'm
Speaker 2: going to go to the Tom Brady Roast.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, where is that? It's here. It's gonna be
Speaker 3: at the key of Forum. Yeah, that's like where I saw.
Speaker 3: That's like where Madonna played. No, she was at Staples. No,
Speaker 3: she was at the Forum.
Speaker 1: Oh at the switch maybe because well we got tickets.
Speaker 3: It was safe, I remember, but I but I actually
Speaker 3: spoke to John Early at the Cans. I was talking
Speaker 3: to John about the Madonna concert and he said it
Speaker 3: was so awesome because the concert was just like this
Speaker 3: isn't for kids, like Madonna is for adults.
Speaker 1: And that's what I.
Speaker 2: Like about, you know, I could I could have told
Speaker 2: him that when I went with my family during the
Speaker 2: Round World tour, I could have definitely told him it
Speaker 2: was not a family.
Speaker 1: Friendly concert, family event.
Speaker 2: Yeah, John Earley was actually just on Watch What Happens Live.
Speaker 1: It was really exciting.
Speaker 2: Come now his Indian made Yeah, I guess I'll announce
Speaker 2: I am going to film on Netflix our special. I'm
Speaker 2: excitedly excited, and that's gonna be June fourth in New York.
Speaker 2: You can go to my page if you'd like to
Speaker 2: get tickets, but I'd like for it to sell out
Speaker 2: sooner than later, so get to it.
Speaker 3: And if you forget where she said to go, also,
Speaker 3: that's messed up. Live dot com has a link that
Speaker 3: says Lisa's website and that takes you to all of
Speaker 3: her ticket links for all of her road stuff and
Speaker 3: the Netflix thing. And we've already announced it on our Instagram,
Speaker 3: but some of you aren't following us there, so you
Speaker 3: know if you are, uh, if you already know, but
Speaker 3: if you're in the New York area anywhere, get tickets.
Speaker 1: There's two shows.
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna Yeah, it's gonna be a cool background,
Speaker 2: cool outfit.
Speaker 1: I gotta, you know, figure out my set.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 3: I'm like so pumped. I think it's gonna be amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she's a Netflix thoroughly everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the industry is fucksed right now.
Speaker 2: So it does feel very you know, it feels like
Speaker 2: a huge I.
Speaker 3: Literally keep everybody keeps going how is everything? And I go, well,
Speaker 3: La is kind of terrible and everybody is upset, but
Speaker 3: Lisa's having the greatest year of all time.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, Lisa's doing great.
Speaker 4: But no.
Speaker 3: At this Hacks party, I was talking to people whose
Speaker 3: names I will not mention, who are well known and
Speaker 3: wealthy that were like, yeah, things are not looking good
Speaker 3: out there right now, and I was like, you're struggling.
Speaker 3: Oh no, Like so it's just it's just, you know what,
Speaker 3: Ella is in a rebuilding year after some strikes, and
Speaker 3: now twenty twenty five, you can expect to probably see
Speaker 3: a lot of good shit. But in the meantime, Lisa's
Speaker 3: crushing it. Go see her live and tape her Netflix.
Speaker 1: Oh I okay, so sorry.
Speaker 2: I keep talking about Soul Cycle as much as I do,
Speaker 2: but I guess you know, that's what happens to me.
Speaker 2: I went to the best class I have ever been
Speaker 2: to the theme was well also, Jordan, this teacher was
Speaker 2: out of this world. I think I have a new
Speaker 2: favorite teacher in New York, Diego forever in La but
Speaker 2: Tea Pain Pitbull Usher O.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever been so hyped in my life.
Speaker 2: I was so tired afterwards. I did take a nap
Speaker 2: till ten thirty at night.
Speaker 1: Like it was because.
Speaker 2: Even up top, she goes, listen, There's not going to
Speaker 2: be any spiritual moments. We're just going hard and nothing
Speaker 2: is better than t Paint Usher Pitbull.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like it was electric. It was electric.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: One of my favorite songs I used to work out
Speaker 3: to was an Usher song called Without You that I
Speaker 3: think is like with David Ghetta or something. It has
Speaker 3: like slow moments and then it like really freaking pumps
Speaker 3: up like and I think that's probably the vibe of
Speaker 3: a lot of the Tea Paint mister worldwide Pitbull and uh.
Speaker 2: Uh just electric. Tonight, I'm going into a Taylor Swift
Speaker 2: Muna ride.
Speaker 3: So I met one of the Muna's at the thing
Speaker 3: and we talked about you.
Speaker 1: Sure you did? Okay? Love that? Okay?
Speaker 2: I was being mentioned at the Chateau, which is all
Speaker 2: your air.
Speaker 1: Your name was in the air at the chateau.
Speaker 3: And the band number I met from MUNA was so
Speaker 3: nice and was like, oh.
Speaker 1: You owe that thing with Lisa she I love her,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you are beloved by at least one third
Speaker 3: of MUNA, which is very, very huge to me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that'll be a fun ride. The only other thing I
Speaker 3: had written down on my little notes to talk to
Speaker 3: you about was I did watch Mean Girls the musical
Speaker 3: yesterday on my flight home.
Speaker 2: Okay, I've seen it. Did we talk about it at all?
Speaker 2: I think, I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I know you've seen the musical, so I wasn't sure
Speaker 3: if you'd seen the movie yet.
Speaker 1: I saw it on a plane as well. Okay.
Speaker 2: And I think Renee Rap is so talented. She's like
Speaker 2: a great talent. And I think Rachel McAdams is incredible.
Speaker 2: But I think Amanda Seifried is a talent, and it
Speaker 2: is very clear when you watch the updated version that
Speaker 2: like what a master she is at what she does.
Speaker 2: But with Renee Rap watching her, I'm like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: fucking good every moment, every face to like, I just
Speaker 2: am like a few can of hers. I thought it
Speaker 2: was fun, awesome. Yeah, it was a good time. But
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's trying to replace the original
Speaker 2: in any capacity. So that's why we don't have to
Speaker 2: fully compare it. But it doesn't compare it. But yes, it.
Speaker 3: Doesn't compare the two. I would say the exact same thing.
Speaker 3: I would like the two other girls, the Karen and
Speaker 3: the Gretchen, were so sweet and cute girls, and I
Speaker 3: would love to see them do more stuff. They just
Speaker 3: don't really hold a candle, I think to the two originals.
Speaker 3: But then Renee rap I was like, you do have
Speaker 3: something that is a more modern mean girl thing going
Speaker 3: on that I liked about her. You know, they aged
Speaker 3: her into today, and yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: To Meadows and Tina Fan, I love that. But this
Speaker 2: is very It's taken the hair Spray journey, right. It
Speaker 2: was like Hair Spray the movie, then the musical, than
Speaker 2: the musical on Broadway, and then a movie based on
Speaker 2: the musical from Broadway.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 3: Yes, but I thought it was It was definitely a
Speaker 3: great plain movie. I thought it was really fun and
Speaker 3: I liked a lot of the music, and I had
Speaker 3: never heard really any of it, except for I'd heard
Speaker 3: that Apex Predator song a little bit somewhere, but I
Speaker 3: really hadn't.
Speaker 1: Heard any of the music. What did you think of
Speaker 1: the main girl though, the Katie character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was fine. Everything, everyone was fine. But
Speaker 2: the thing is, I'm glad people can sing. I love
Speaker 2: the music from I like the songs like I was
Speaker 2: very into that that kind of element. I also have
Speaker 2: to give a shout out to the person that did
Speaker 2: come out of their way to come see me perform
Speaker 2: at Springfield, Missouri for my friend Kenny's Funeral festival, and
Speaker 2: I would say my set was unhinged and maybe people
Speaker 2: shouldn't have come to see me there. But afterward she's like,
Speaker 2: we traveled to Springfield to see you, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I forgot that.
Speaker 1: Maybe I just do comedy. I did go last.
Speaker 2: I was the last comedian of the whole festival, and
Speaker 2: I would just say I wish I didn't have that pressure,
Speaker 2: because I buckled under the pressure. Everyone else was so funny,
Speaker 2: people were destroying, they were amazing, and I did call
Speaker 2: a woman a cut in the front row listen, and I.
Speaker 1: Think that's just what Kenny would have wanted.
Speaker 3: I have to be honest, I think that's something he
Speaker 3: would have been like classic Lisa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really it was a class it was
Speaker 2: I mean it was fun, but I felt, you know,
Speaker 2: a little like eh, but yeah, but it was funny
Speaker 2: to then take a photo with someone who was excited
Speaker 2: to come and I was like, you couldn't wait till
Speaker 2: I was in Saint Louis. But if you are listening,
Speaker 2: thank you for being there and you know coming to
Speaker 2: that show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're gonna get started. But just wanted to
Speaker 3: remind people that if you want to support our beautiful
Speaker 3: little show and buy any of the products that we
Speaker 3: talk about in our ads exactly rightmedia dot com forward
Speaker 3: slash promos baby, you can find and also I'm posting
Speaker 3: them actually, like today I'm going to post a story
Speaker 3: with all the promo codes in it, so there will
Speaker 3: be a highlight in our stories that has all of
Speaker 3: our promo codes. Like, so if you are interested in
Speaker 3: any of the stuff that we've talked about and you're like, wait,
Speaker 3: what was the promo code, they're all going to live
Speaker 3: there also available at a link at that's messed up
Speaker 3: live dot com, as well as links to Lisa's stuff
Speaker 3: links to my stuff, links to our shop where you
Speaker 3: can buy some of our merch.
Speaker 1: Well, and our new merch is so cute.
Speaker 2: I just it's got the mug and the toe bag
Speaker 2: and the mail so fucking cute.
Speaker 3: So the T shirt and the mug are sold out
Speaker 3: right now. The toe bag is still up there. There's
Speaker 3: some smaller items, but also we're gonna be getting more
Speaker 3: of the T shirts soon, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 3: And that's that's that. On match we get started. I
Speaker 3: think we gotta we gotta here we go.
Speaker 2: All right, I would say, yay, but this isn't it.
Speaker 2: This isn't a YA episode. Okay, we're doing Honor season two, episode.
Speaker 1: Two, not a YA episode.
Speaker 2: No, I would say, I get ready to get very sad,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Get ready to be devastated, devastated, devastated.
Speaker 2: So we're in a park and it's a full on
Speaker 2: crime scene, and then a horse cop is telling Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler in a walk and talk that you know,
Speaker 2: a woman was found moaning, bleeding and half naked and
Speaker 2: the face and privates beaten. And early seasons and then
Speaker 2: late seasons, I feel graph you know, we got like yeah,
Speaker 2: fifteen years in the middle where it was not as
Speaker 2: and then the first few and the last few.
Speaker 1: Just they wanted to grab our attention.
Speaker 3: And then maybe like after Stabler life, no, like a
Speaker 3: it was way after Stabler left that they started going
Speaker 3: back into the violent stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, I don't know.
Speaker 2: But and then so we see your body being put
Speaker 2: on a stretcher, but there are also rocks that are bagged,
Speaker 2: and so some cop goes an old fashioned stoning and
Speaker 2: then it's a rape as well, stab wound on the
Speaker 2: chest as like the left side so towards the heart.
Speaker 2: And then the EMT New York accidents are so strong
Speaker 2: it seems like they should be working at a pizza shop,
Speaker 2: not with sensitive people. But you know, it happens. And
Speaker 2: then they also Stabler says wilding is back in vogue,
Speaker 2: and Benson does not like that at all. And also
Speaker 2: I've never really they say wilding a lot in this
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a reference to the Central Park jogger ca
Speaker 3: I think because that was called a wilding and that
Speaker 3: happened in like like ten years earlier than this episode.
Speaker 1: But it was like a pretty big thing in New York. Well,
Speaker 1: I think in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it came up, yeah again in the twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen you know, elections and stuff like it was kind
Speaker 2: of exactly.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, like, well, we learned a really.
Speaker 2: Good lesson, you know, like you don't be in the
Speaker 2: park after dark and don't be black and alive, so that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like, I know, I'm not saying
Speaker 3: like a wilding has never happened, but I do think
Speaker 3: that they were exaggerated by racists and like people that
Speaker 3: were like any group of boys hanging out together that
Speaker 3: might not have white skin tone are getting ready to
Speaker 3: just fully attack people like a pack of animals.
Speaker 1: And that's just not factual.
Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, not factual at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they.
Speaker 3: Sat, I mean Central Park five, yes, which, yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: going to touch on it later. I'm not actually covering
Speaker 3: that today, but yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think that's one we're avoiding. I would feel like it
Speaker 1: comes up a lot and we're like later, later, it's coming.
Speaker 1: It's like William Lewis, it's coming. We're just avoiding it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we were avoiding this one, but I'll
Speaker 2: be I'll do I'll do a coming up. We got
Speaker 2: a great guess. We had to do it. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: had to do it. So he stays behind. Stabler stays
Speaker 2: behind to work the scene. She enters the bus to
Speaker 2: go to the hospital with the victim, and then Cragan
Speaker 2: is in full Oh my god, I didn't even write credits.
Speaker 2: I always write credits in my notes, and I didn't
Speaker 2: even write them in this. But that is where the
Speaker 2: credits happen, so I do know scene by scene. So
Speaker 2: then Cragan's in full suspender glory. He comes out annoyed
Speaker 2: that the brass is calling him so much and he
Speaker 2: has no information for them. And Benson's in a tank top,
Speaker 2: so that's pretty exciting. And then she says, all we
Speaker 2: have it's a female Jane do probably in her twenty
Speaker 2: is no id, no knife. She was mumbling in the bus,
Speaker 2: but Benson couldn't make anything out. Finn then hangs up
Speaker 2: the phone and he looks silly as fuck. You know,
Speaker 2: a blue and white striped shirt. This is his vest era.
Speaker 2: But they he tells everyone, they poured four units into her,
Speaker 2: and so that's of blood and that's a lot of
Speaker 2: blood loss. You're a you're a blood donator. That's a lot, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a lot that feels like a lot, so very
Speaker 2: very touch and go the rape kit, you know everything
Speaker 2: hair seaman, bruising and blood from a freshly ripped Timan.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I am not happy saying it. You're not
Speaker 1: happy hearing it.
Speaker 2: Craigan, Uh yeah, o case he's upset, Okay, Sogan. Craigan's
Speaker 2: crossing guards everyone, and we end up with Benson and
Speaker 2: Stable are talking to the park cop and he's defensive
Speaker 2: as fuck. He's like, my park is safe, and then
Speaker 2: again it's like, are you sure it's not a wilding
Speaker 2: and he's like, it's an incident, it's an anomaly. He
Speaker 2: keeps wagging his fingers. He's not being helpful, and they're
Speaker 2: left in the dust. So then they go to the
Speaker 2: horse cop and the horse cop talks about the park
Speaker 2: cop and he's like, he gave you the knot in
Speaker 2: mind park routine, huh, And he's like he's just worried
Speaker 2: about his own ask getting dragged by the brass. And
Speaker 2: then the horse cop says pretty young thing, which does
Speaker 2: remind me of Stabler going, ain't no bad I heard you?
Speaker 2: Wang is no big fang. Yeah, in the future, so
Speaker 2: we kind of. I guess there was maybe one writer
Speaker 2: who really love to write thang. He then says that
Speaker 2: middle class kids on bikes are pretending to be gangsters
Speaker 2: and they're bothering people in the park and it is
Speaker 2: a pattern. But the park cop didn't realize it till yesterday,
Speaker 2: so he's feeling like nervous about that and getting in trouble.
Speaker 2: So then we go to the home of Chris Lyons,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the suburban teens.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess still a city kid, but whatever.
Speaker 2: And then the dad answers and goes, ugh, what now,
Speaker 2: So he knows his kid sucks, and the dad.
Speaker 1: Is like totally used to it.
Speaker 2: He goes, just call her attorney, hands over the card
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, easy way or hard way? You want
Speaker 2: to search warrant. He goes, fine, fine, we'll meet you
Speaker 2: our attorney's office. So the boy has spikey gel hair,
Speaker 2: like the some forty one lead singer Crispy and high.
Speaker 1: The lawyer, yeah, yeah, that's a rough the one that
Speaker 1: was married to Avril.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize they were married, but yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: The lawyer is like, that's just my quintessential hit, Like
Speaker 2: what would you say, to compare that hair, what comes
Speaker 2: to mind for you?
Speaker 1: No, I that's correct, That is correct. I'm thinking like
Speaker 1: that's the reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: So the lawyer is like, I mean, or people from
Speaker 2: my high school, I can name name.
Speaker 3: By name, specifically specifically Larry Jones, like his hair was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The lawyers like, why are you harassing my client? And
Speaker 2: they're like, we hate him. And then they asked where
Speaker 2: he was early that morning and the dad's like, you're sick.
Speaker 1: We heard about that case.
Speaker 2: There's no way my son is a poser, like he
Speaker 2: didn't do this, he wasn't there. And the dad grabs
Speaker 2: a son's arm and goes, don't you say another word,
Speaker 2: And the detectives are like, shut up, we want him
Speaker 2: to talk, and the dad's like, no, he's actually fifteen,
Speaker 2: so shut the fuck up. Benson's beeper goes off, so
Speaker 2: we can tell what time this really is. Is this pretty yeah?
Speaker 2: Pre nine to eleven? Okay, so the beeper is buzzin'.
Speaker 3: Also, besides beeper, the word poser was at its peak.
Speaker 3: I would say at this time, oh really, like, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, when I was like, I mean, when I
Speaker 3: was like in like high school, I feel like poser
Speaker 3: was like a slur, like it was like the worst
Speaker 3: thing you could call someone. You're like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: she's kind of a poser, Like, oh, it was so
Speaker 3: bad you never wanted to get called that.
Speaker 2: No, And so then finally I do love this line
Speaker 2: so much. The boy says, so we like to look
Speaker 2: at the ladies, but what happened to that lady?
Speaker 1: We're not down with that.
Speaker 2: And he does have a librae piercing if you're wondering.
Speaker 2: He was online till one am and it wasn't him.
Speaker 2: So Benson's like, okay, we'll keep in touch, and they leave. Basically,
Speaker 2: the beeper was the lab. It's not what we thought.
Speaker 2: The victim only had one person's DNA inside of her.
Speaker 2: She was dumped after she was stabbed because she lost
Speaker 2: so much blood, but all that blood was not on
Speaker 2: the scene.
Speaker 1: And this Emmy is a blonde woman.
Speaker 2: The fibers that we found were white caught and found
Speaker 2: on the clothes, legs and genitals, and the attack followed
Speaker 2: the rate by eight hours. And then there's one bloody
Speaker 2: print on a rock, then on her clothes. There's so
Speaker 2: much blood and it says Hanford University. So they obviously
Speaker 2: go down to Hanford and they talk to an admissions
Speaker 2: office and they're just like searching on a database for
Speaker 2: women after woman after woman, and they think they find her.
Speaker 2: Her name is Nafisa Amir and she's twenty three years old.
Speaker 2: She's at the School of Journalism. She lives in the
Speaker 2: East Village and they send over the photo ID to
Speaker 2: Munch and so now Munch and Finn show up at
Speaker 2: the address and a man with a bandage answers the door.
Speaker 2: They ask for a mister Tarzi and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: he doesn't live here anymore. I'm David Hamoud and they
Speaker 2: ask for an IDA. He's like, he only has a
Speaker 2: Social Security card, his passports and a safety deposit box
Speaker 2: and he doesn't drive, so he doesn't have an ID.
Speaker 2: So they cut to the chase and show a photo
Speaker 2: of a Fisa and he's like, nope, who is she?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. They ask how long he's lived there.
Speaker 2: He says he just moved in last week. So he
Speaker 2: scurries off, but he says he'll be back at night
Speaker 2: if they want to chat more. So Benson and Sabler
Speaker 2: are still at the college and they show the photo
Speaker 2: of the woman to someone else and a woman's like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, but I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If that's her.
Speaker 2: She you know, if it is, she actually missed class
Speaker 2: this morning, and she never misses class, so obviously it's her.
Speaker 2: The professor talks to her all the time, and they
Speaker 2: do have a bond, it seems like. And a Fisa
Speaker 2: loves the freedom of the press and it doesn't exist
Speaker 2: where she's from with the Taliban government. The professor is like,
Speaker 2: unless she's snuck out of the country, her parents must
Speaker 2: be here, like women can't just move about freely. And
Speaker 2: she does know her best friend her her name is
Speaker 2: Annette Fleming. They go to talk to her. Annette is
Speaker 2: crying on a bench. She's so sad. She just saw
Speaker 2: her in class yesterday. They ask if anything was wrong
Speaker 2: in a FSA's life, and Annette goes, no, the opposite.
Speaker 1: She was loving life.
Speaker 2: She wouldn't talk about her boyfriend and it was a
Speaker 2: way of protecting herself from her father, an Afghan diplomat,
Speaker 2: and she thought he had been looking for her, so
Speaker 2: she was a little freaked out and if he had
Speaker 2: his way, she says, Annett wouldn't even be friends with
Speaker 2: the FISA. He's a control freak, you know. She wouldn't.
Speaker 2: She would leave.
Speaker 1: With the full robes. She call it the robes.
Speaker 2: It's obviously a full as Berka, and then she would
Speaker 2: leave the house in that.
Speaker 1: And at school she changed.
Speaker 2: She hated so much that she had to live like that,
Speaker 2: and she was talking to Professor Husseini who was helping
Speaker 2: her to adjust, and she kept the clothing in her locker.
Speaker 1: So that's the next stop. We go to the locker.
Speaker 2: Benson starts going through the bag and they talk about
Speaker 2: Kathleen and how pissed she would be if she couldn't
Speaker 2: wear jeans. So they find a photo of a dude
Speaker 2: and the address is on the east side and it
Speaker 2: is the home of Salah and Aziza Amir and the
Speaker 2: mom is only eyes visible Burka. She's sitting in silence
Speaker 2: on the couch. And the dad, as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: he's not sad at all. They're like, she's in the
Speaker 2: hospital and he's like, is she dead and they go, no,
Speaker 2: she's in critical condition. He goes, h she did not
Speaker 2: understand her place, And it's confusing that anyone thinks this
Speaker 2: is actual strength, like not letting them do anything and
Speaker 2: be like this is actually it's very powerful of me
Speaker 2: to do this. It's like crazy. But this guy's a psychopath.
Speaker 2: So she turns her back, like he goes, she turns
Speaker 2: her back on traditions and again, yeah, why wouldn't.
Speaker 1: She love this great life?
Speaker 2: So then he says, well, we have a son, Jalil,
Speaker 2: but she's dead to me, and so now it's a
Speaker 2: walk and talk. Craigan is really confused about this. He's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: So it's her fault. She was raped, and Benson goes, yep,
Speaker 2: she brought shame and dishonor to her family. They be
Speaker 2: head women for that, he says. So Munch says, my
Speaker 2: wife dishonored me, and all I have to pay her
Speaker 2: is alimony. So that's nice, a nice little comedic break.
Speaker 2: Then Stabler says, look what's in the knapsack? No one
Speaker 2: calls it a knapsack? What the fuck you bloom our bitch,
Speaker 2: it's a picture of a man. They're like, I wonder
Speaker 2: who this man could be. But also these diplomats are
Speaker 2: covered with immunity, so like, you know.
Speaker 1: What do we do?
Speaker 2: The only way we can contact them is updates on
Speaker 2: the daughter, or we'll get in big trouble.
Speaker 1: Crazy, Why do we have that?
Speaker 3: Why is it like you're coming to another country to
Speaker 3: do business in our country politically, so feel free to
Speaker 3: just like violate whatever law and do whatever.
Speaker 1: I just don't get it. I don't either.
Speaker 3: I don't get why we were just like, oh, but
Speaker 3: you're here on diplomatic business, Like, feel free to gamble,
Speaker 3: kill someone, do what E's like.
Speaker 1: I don't get it.
Speaker 3: But if someone is a diplomat, let us know if
Speaker 3: we have a diplomat listening to this podcasts, I mean, let's.
Speaker 1: Call it a day. We did it.
Speaker 2: Then Munch looks at the photo of the man and
Speaker 2: it's the dude from earlier who said he's never heard
Speaker 2: of her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So they go pick him up, all hands
Speaker 1: on deck.
Speaker 2: The walkie talkies are so giant, and then he walks
Speaker 2: and sees Fin and drops all the groceries. This guy
Speaker 2: like on the street and he starts running, but Staylor
Speaker 2: meets him on another side. He crosses a street, stable
Speaker 2: runs over a taxi, Finn tackles him. Munch arrives and
Speaker 2: then the guy goes, you will not find her. I
Speaker 2: will never tell you where she is. You will never
Speaker 2: find her. Okay, they read him his rights, they stuff
Speaker 2: him in a car. His name is dau Tarzi. He's
Speaker 2: thirty three, no priors, so Immigration said he got there
Speaker 2: in eighty eight. He became a citizen in ninety three,
Speaker 2: and he does exports and imports. Aka Seinfeld Costanza, Let's
Speaker 2: go our vandal a. Yes, he asked how bad is she?
Speaker 2: They say critical? He says, I'm responsible for this. I
Speaker 2: love her, so he explains that we argued she ran out.
Speaker 2: When asked what they were fighting about, he says, who cares.
Speaker 2: Her father already won his twisted sense of honor revenge
Speaker 2: for leaving home. And basically they were fighting because she
Speaker 2: had a hard time letting that old school traditional shit
Speaker 2: go and her family. And he's like, girl, like, let's
Speaker 2: go be free together. And this is really interesting, you know,
Speaker 2: like this type of lifestyle in any sort of super
Speaker 2: religious sect where you're just subject, like your life doesn't
Speaker 2: matter as a woman, You're like, why wouldn't you leave?
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you'll never see your family again.
Speaker 2: You know, there is that connection, Like I understand why
Speaker 2: it's so hard where you're like, fuck, like, I'm also
Speaker 2: leaving my mom behind and you do still have this
Speaker 2: love and it's it's hard.
Speaker 1: I feel for all these kids that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have a hard time letting go even though they
Speaker 2: know that's not the life they want to live, but
Speaker 2: it is. It's basically saying you'll never see your family again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I hate that.
Speaker 3: And also, just going back a second, this man needs
Speaker 3: to You just need to not say to the cops
Speaker 3: this is my I'm responsible for this, or this is
Speaker 3: all my faults. Just like, even if you feel the
Speaker 3: immense weight of guilt because somebody ran out of your
Speaker 3: fight with you and they got hit by a car,
Speaker 3: please don't say that to the cops.
Speaker 1: They are going to use it as a confession against you.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, especially because they already mirandized you.
Speaker 2: Bro. Yeah, So he goes, listen, I did overreact. Basically,
Speaker 2: he dared her to leave like they were fighting, and
Speaker 2: he's like, fine, then fucking leave. And he never thought
Speaker 2: she would leave. He loves her so much he wanted
Speaker 2: to marry her. Craigan tells Munch to go talk to
Speaker 2: people who heard them fight. So we're talking to a
Speaker 2: guy who seems to be a super of the building,
Speaker 2: and he did hear the fight, but it was in
Speaker 2: their language, which was gibberish to him, and so he
Speaker 2: didn't know what they were fighting about. But you know,
Speaker 2: one person ran out, another person stayed and turned the
Speaker 2: TV on. They enter the home and there's a photo
Speaker 2: and they grab the photo and they're like, wow, they
Speaker 2: looked happy, you know. Benson goes, they look happy and
Speaker 2: Sabler goes, yeah, they all look happy. So then they
Speaker 2: find a bloody bed sheet. Uh oh, and the lab
Speaker 2: says the blood is hers and the semen is his.
Speaker 2: So but it's not a match to the stones, so
Speaker 2: we don't know what's going on. Cabot is leaning on
Speaker 2: a desk, Stabler is leaning on a door, and Benson's
Speaker 2: leaning on the other side of the doorframe. Cabot says,
Speaker 2: fuck the rocks, it's her blood, and his semen like
Speaker 2: bing bing bong. Okay, And then we're at a raiment court,
Speaker 2: Part sixty nine.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: He's being charged with one count of attempted murderer and
Speaker 2: the second degree in one count of rape in the
Speaker 2: first degree, you know, the drill.
Speaker 1: So he's being.
Speaker 2: Charged with one count of attempted murder and the second
Speaker 2: degree and one count of rape in the first degree,
Speaker 2: and you know the.
Speaker 1: Drill remand remand no let him go.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the judge puts them in remand and her
Speaker 2: parents are in the back of the courtroom, and his
Speaker 2: lawyer runs and tells Cabot like dell Wood wanted me
Speaker 2: to tell you that that his parents.
Speaker 3: Her parents are here, And why are they there? Like
Speaker 3: they didn't even give a shit if she was dead
Speaker 3: or not, Like, why are they there? I don't really
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a theory, but that'll give away some
Speaker 2: information from later, okay. And also he is willing to
Speaker 2: do a lie detector test, So they go to the
Speaker 2: lie detector test and he passes, and Saber's like, so
Speaker 2: he fooled a box. Who gives a shit in Cabits like, okay,
Speaker 2: But if he can fool a box, he can fool
Speaker 2: a jury. So and then she has a wild idea
Speaker 2: maybe he's telling the truth. Who would a thunk give?
Speaker 2: So they're like, well, who else knew about this relationship?
Speaker 2: And Stabler remembers about a professor who is helping a
Speaker 2: visa adapt to America. So we're gonna go chat with
Speaker 2: him and we find as if Mondvy and he's had
Speaker 2: an illustrious career, but to me, he's always just the
Speaker 2: sad Mac guy from Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: Sad sad Mac.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's what he was in Sex and
Speaker 3: the City.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you got sad maced Oh my god, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: I also can Apple please bring back the colorful laptops?
Speaker 1: Like why won't they do it?
Speaker 2: Nostalgia is in that's all we want, Like like I
Speaker 2: don't understand why I can't have a fun, little, clear
Speaker 2: and colorful little laptop.
Speaker 1: They gotta figure it out. They just boring.
Speaker 3: It's it's silver, black, rose gold, right, that's like all
Speaker 3: we have right now.
Speaker 2: Or they'll be like it's midnight and it's like it's
Speaker 2: fucking black, shut up, charcoal.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's yeah.
Speaker 2: I just it's just Nostalgia's so in everybodys does.
Speaker 1: It want to go away from.
Speaker 3: Like their aesthetic is so clean, it's so sterile, Like
Speaker 3: they're not just they're just like I know we did
Speaker 3: have the big colorful Max, but I feel like now
Speaker 3: their whole thing is just like the headphones are only white,
Speaker 3: you know, like everything is a mid century modern flat I.
Speaker 2: Wonder if you're someone like super rich, famous, maybe a billionaire.
Speaker 2: I wonder who I'm thinking of, Like, I wonder if
Speaker 2: you can go to Mac and be like, build me
Speaker 2: this computer.
Speaker 1: Probably yeah, custom.
Speaker 3: All right, or even if Mac won't do it, some
Speaker 3: door will do it for you.
Speaker 1: Who know how, Like you know, my friend Crystal just.
Speaker 3: Took a part of computer and put it back together
Speaker 3: for fun, you know, like people can do all kinds
Speaker 3: of shit.
Speaker 2: So it's a walk and talk and basically the professor
Speaker 2: is saying, and they're like outside in the college campus,
Speaker 2: and he's like, it's tough to assimilate. There's so many
Speaker 2: new things, like even leaving the house alone as a woman,
Speaker 2: she wouldn't be able to do that. And then Benson
Speaker 2: calls the tally Ben thugs, and I like that. And
Speaker 2: also he explains that the actually from the old regime,
Speaker 2: like like there the Taliban happened after they left the country,
Speaker 2: so that's kind of wild. The Psycho has been in
Speaker 2: America for years, so it's strange. But then the professor goes,
Speaker 2: but he could be like a tally Ban mole, like
Speaker 2: we don't really know what his beliefs are or anything,
Speaker 2: but yeah, weird. Just because he doesn't wear the colors
Speaker 2: doesn't mean he's not with the team. So she wanted
Speaker 2: to live as a modern woman, he explains, and she
Speaker 2: had to choose family or her future, and she had
Speaker 2: to leave her parents home. And there's a reason to
Speaker 2: like hide and everything because you could be fully murdered.
Speaker 2: So this is all very good information from the professor,
Speaker 2: and Cabot meets with da Wud and the defense attorney
Speaker 2: in jail.
Speaker 1: She says, listen, you confessed.
Speaker 2: He goes, no, I didn't, and she's like, I'm responsible
Speaker 2: for this, and he's like, I feel responsible and not
Speaker 2: that I attacked her. This is not a therapy session, Cirta.
Speaker 2: No one cares what your feelings. There's no DNA and
Speaker 2: the stones, his lawyer says, And she's like, well he
Speaker 2: was inside her. And he gets up frustrated as he
Speaker 2: holds the bars in the cement room, and we find
Speaker 2: out that they fell in love, but they couldn't tell anyone.
Speaker 2: She didn't want her dad to find out, so they
Speaker 2: had to hide all the time. And then he explains
Speaker 2: the dad only has his job, apartment, the car with
Speaker 2: the driver, all of that, and all of his power
Speaker 2: because of her, because she was promised to wait to
Speaker 2: some government minister and her turning back on that is
Speaker 2: like spitting in her father's face. So basically he sold
Speaker 2: his daughter to have a driver, and the night she
Speaker 2: was attacked, he actually asked her to marry him and
Speaker 2: he gave her a diamond. She said yes, she was
Speaker 2: a virgin, and then Cabot's like, you forced her. He goes, no,
Speaker 2: she didn't say no, but I shouldn't have pushed her.
Speaker 2: And then she said he was trying to dominate her
Speaker 2: and threw the ring in her face and he tried
Speaker 2: to stop her, and now he knows he should have
Speaker 2: tried harder to stop her. Cabot's like, why all the lies,
Speaker 2: and he points to a cut in his face and goes, well,
Speaker 2: this was from a cop who came looking for an
Speaker 2: afisa and I knew for a back that her father
Speaker 2: had sent him. And so we find this PI guy
Speaker 2: and he knows Finn from back in the day. They're
Speaker 2: chit chatting and like, the thing is, he's a cop
Speaker 2: and cops aren't supposed to moonlight as a PI. So
Speaker 2: basically they threatened to tell iab on him if they
Speaker 2: if he doesn't spill the tea. So basically the PI
Speaker 2: slash Cop. He gets a call from a diplomat who's
Speaker 2: looking for his missing daughter. He says, they're gonna go
Speaker 2: back to I think this is just racist, but the
Speaker 2: cop goes, yeah, they're gonna go back to live in
Speaker 2: a tent in the desert, and he wanted to bring
Speaker 2: her with him. And so, you know, I found the boyfriend.
Speaker 2: I roughed him up a little bit and he said,
Speaker 2: you can shoot me. I will never tell. And he
Speaker 2: sat on it for two nights and nothing. No, you know,
Speaker 2: she never showed up.
Speaker 1: Nothing.
Speaker 2: Munch walks into a dark ass office with the whole
Speaker 2: gang in Cabot and the final lab report the blood
Speaker 2: on the stones was an a Fisa, but the other
Speaker 2: wasn't Tarsi, and the blood is actually really similar to Nafisa,
Speaker 2: which means it was a family member. The brother, Jalil
Speaker 2: A Mirr, just turned twenty one, graduated from NYU lucky him,
Speaker 2: great education. He lives with his parents and he is
Speaker 2: no longer a student. The phone rings, Benson answers and
Speaker 2: while she's talking, cab its like, fuck yeah, that means
Speaker 2: his immunity expire the moment he turns twenty one, he
Speaker 2: is no longer under.
Speaker 1: Like the diplomat code.
Speaker 2: Benson hangs up the phone and announces that unfortunately and
Speaker 2: Ifisa died ten minutes ago. And we're at a doorman
Speaker 2: building and the doorman starts spilling as well, and he's like,
Speaker 2: she was here Tuesday night. He didn't realize it was
Speaker 2: even her because she wasn't wearing the get up. He
Speaker 2: never saw her leave. But he gets off at eleven,
Speaker 2: so maybe the night guy. But the brother did come out,
Speaker 2: and so the and then he's like, oh, that bastard
Speaker 2: treats me like his personal slave. He asked me to
Speaker 2: bring up you know, at eight o'clock. He asked me
Speaker 2: to bring up a big ass shopping car upstairs. And
Speaker 2: they go, did you do it? He goes, that fucker
Speaker 2: hasn't tipped me in four years. No fucking way he should.
Speaker 2: He needs to come downstairs. And then he never exited
Speaker 2: from the front, so he probably took the garage. So
Speaker 2: then they're into the park and the dad screams, I
Speaker 2: told you to leave us alone. She says, sir, your
Speaker 2: daughter passed away and you don't even care. And he screams,
Speaker 2: get out, and then we say, and we know your
Speaker 2: son took out the garbage, you sick freak. Did you
Speaker 2: watch the knife go into your daughter? And he says
Speaker 2: she was a whore like you, and the mom stands
Speaker 2: in the background, and the mom finally screams she was
Speaker 2: your daughter. Then says that Julie's on the way home
Speaker 2: to Afghanistan on a plane, and he screams at her
Speaker 2: in Farsi, and then he screams that he is protected
Speaker 2: by some convention and arresting him as a violation of
Speaker 2: international law. Sabler says, Lol, your son's twenty one. You're done, bitch.
Speaker 2: So then Munch and Fingo get his ass on the
Speaker 2: plane and he gets up and says, I'm proud I
Speaker 2: killed her. She deserved to die. He's a cocky, rich
Speaker 2: diplomat kid, like you know what I mean. He just
Speaker 2: thinks he can get away with everything. And then of
Speaker 2: course some high up person is mad at Kragan in
Speaker 2: Cabot and taking the side of these losers over a
Speaker 2: dead woman, and Cabot's like, this is out of your hands,
Speaker 2: so shut the fuck up, and he doesn't believe it
Speaker 2: will win. In Core and people mad and YadA YadA,
Speaker 2: the confession won't work, and Cabot goes, bitch, it stays
Speaker 2: in because it was an excited remark, like it has
Speaker 2: to stay and it doesn't matter if it was before
Speaker 2: the Miranda writes, and then this nobody starts slowly getting
Speaker 2: up for Kragan's desks at desk and goes, I suggest
Speaker 2: that you can reconsider your position, and she goes and
Speaker 2: why would I want to do that? And on his
Speaker 2: way out, he goes to save your own skin, and
Speaker 2: she actually cares loser, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: she'll go to the fucking congo.
Speaker 1: I just I hate the brass. Okay.
Speaker 2: So Craigan is yelling at Stabler for the write up,
Speaker 2: like I need the rite up hurriyap.
Speaker 1: Type faster.
Speaker 2: Because the commissioner's pissed because the dad says he was
Speaker 2: harassed and Benson's like, we did not fucking harass him,
Speaker 2: and Stabler says, well, back home he would have been
Speaker 2: a fucking hero because of this. And so now we're
Speaker 2: in the judge's chambers and they're arguing about if the
Speaker 2: confession stays in. The judge says yes, an excited utterance
Speaker 2: with a plane of look like a planeload of witnesses
Speaker 2: is in and this is a thick must stash judge,
Speaker 2: if you're wondering, And he's been in eighteen episodes of
Speaker 2: SVU as Judge Allen Riddendor written whatever maybe French. So
Speaker 2: in that case, he's changing his plea to not guilty
Speaker 2: by reason of mental disease or defect.
Speaker 1: It's so fucking annoying.
Speaker 2: Also, I love that you're admitting your religion as a disease,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's pretty.
Speaker 1: Amazing, or just that they're ready for it. They don't
Speaker 1: even take a second.
Speaker 3: They're just like, oh, so that's out mental disease, you know,
Speaker 3: like you were ready for him to just be not
Speaker 3: get like have that confession thrown out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he didn't know what he was doing.
Speaker 2: Killing his you know, killing his sister was wrong.
Speaker 1: He didn't get in.
Speaker 2: Cabots like, ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense.
Speaker 2: And the defense says he told the cops he was
Speaker 2: proud of what he did.
Speaker 1: Does that sound sane to you? And Cabot says, this
Speaker 1: is bullshit.
Speaker 2: Judge goes, listen, let's have a psychiatric evaluation.
Speaker 1: So we're at Rikers and it's JK.
Speaker 2: Simmons baby, and he's going to talk to this monster
Speaker 2: in a jumpsuit, and this guy compares himself to Abraham.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, you're all sick.
Speaker 2: He sighs and says, I can't talk about this, and JK.
Speaker 2: Simmons pushes him, can't or won't. He starts talking about nightmares.
Speaker 2: He started having it eight years old because his grandfather
Speaker 2: slit his aunt's throat and his father made him watch
Speaker 2: very Richard Ramirez she cheated on her husband. And he's
Speaker 2: just following the rules. And Simmons is telling Cabot in
Speaker 2: the office late at night that he saw this as
Speaker 2: a rite of passage to manhood, to honor.
Speaker 1: But JK. Simmons thinks that he knows what he did
Speaker 1: was wrong.
Speaker 2: And Cabot's worried that the jury like might not see
Speaker 2: it and that they're gonna get confused, and Simmons goes,
Speaker 2: We'll get a fucking jury together that's not gonna be confused.
Speaker 2: So we're at jury selection and it's not going well.
Speaker 2: Cabot asks to approach the bench and basically the defense
Speaker 2: is dismissing anyone that is a woman or a Jew,
Speaker 2: so I guess we would not be on that jury's double.
Speaker 2: And he's like, you can't stack. You can't let her
Speaker 2: stack the jury with women. It's insane. And the judge
Speaker 2: is like, fuck you and goes and agrees with Cabots.
Speaker 1: So I'm really really happy.
Speaker 2: So now we're at trial and it's Munch is on
Speaker 2: the stand and the parents are in the stands.
Speaker 1: Munch explained that.
Speaker 2: This motherfucker got up, smiled, confessed he was proud of
Speaker 2: what he did, and he thought that she deserved to die.
Speaker 2: Cabot sits down, and now it's the defense's turn and
Speaker 2: he's like, since he was so proud and smiling, does
Speaker 2: it I mean like that he's not sane and there's
Speaker 2: an objection he's not a doctor. And then he asked
Speaker 2: how many people have smiled at you as you arrest them?
Speaker 2: And Munch goes one and Munch isn't happy to give
Speaker 2: him this information.
Speaker 1: Now JK.
Speaker 2: Simmons is on the stand and he explains that this
Speaker 2: Julias shows signs of severe trauma, night terror and night terrors,
Speaker 2: but they do not make him not understand the difference
Speaker 2: between right or wrong. So the defense is trying to
Speaker 2: compare this to a home invasion, and basically they're saying,
Speaker 2: even like, if murder is morally wrong, if someone like
Speaker 2: breaks into your home, you get to kill someone to
Speaker 2: protect your family, and Scota JK. Simmons character is like, uh,
Speaker 2: Juliel's sister wasn't threatening to kill him, And the lawyer says, yeah,
Speaker 2: but those actions would destroy his life if like, because
Speaker 2: this you know, dishonor and you lose all this family
Speaker 2: stuff and no one wants to fuck with you anymore,
Speaker 2: and much keeps saying it's not a valid comparison, like
Speaker 2: I'm not going to give it to this, and so
Speaker 2: now it's time for the professor. So they talk honor
Speaker 2: killings with the professor, and like the defense really thinks
Speaker 2: he's going to be able to get a professor and
Speaker 2: it's like, no, you're gonna get got motherfucker fat chance loser,
Speaker 2: and I'm very annoyed. But it's a lot of talk
Speaker 2: about honor tradition. So then the lawyer asks, so is
Speaker 2: it reasonable my client may have come up in this
Speaker 2: world to accept honor killing as necessary to survive, And
Speaker 2: ASUF responds, well, he may have accepted it, but I
Speaker 2: hardly think that it is reasonable. Slammedom and like the
Speaker 2: lawyer knows he got got he gives him such a
Speaker 2: dirty look. So now the killers on the stand and
Speaker 2: basically says, I had to do it. The only thing
Speaker 2: I would change about any of this is what Nefisa
Speaker 2: did to us. She was arranged to be with someone else,
Speaker 2: and being with another man was not her decision to make.
Speaker 2: Cabot says, when you dumped your sister body she was
Speaker 2: half naked, why, he says, to shame her the way
Speaker 2: she shamed us. And then she asks about the stones
Speaker 2: and he said, that's what we do to whoores in
Speaker 2: my country. Cabot asks, so you're proud of what you did,
Speaker 2: and he says yes. So she's like, okay, then why
Speaker 2: did you run away? He looks at his dad and
Speaker 2: then asks what do you mean? And she says, you're
Speaker 2: a man, aren't you? A man doesn't run away. A
Speaker 2: man faces the consequences of his actions. He says, I'm
Speaker 2: not afraid, and Cabot's like, you were arrested on a
Speaker 2: plane running away.
Speaker 1: Does that sound honorable to you? He starts stuttering.
Speaker 2: He accuses her of twisting what he's saying, and the
Speaker 2: other guy tries to subject, but Cabot keeps going and goes,
Speaker 2: you keep looking at your dad to tell him what
Speaker 2: to do? Does he tell you what to do? Did
Speaker 2: your dad tell you what to do? And then you know,
Speaker 2: object but that objection does get sustained. We can whatever,
Speaker 2: And then he was scared. And then she continues like
Speaker 2: he was scared of spending the rest of his life
Speaker 2: in American prison because he knew what we did he
Speaker 2: did was wrong, and he tries to deny it, but
Speaker 2: it's not working. But he responds, no, I did it
Speaker 2: for my family's honor. And the dad looks so fucking annoyed,
Speaker 2: like that this blonde who got him? And so then
Speaker 2: Kraigan Office their slumber party recap vibes they're all hanging out.
Speaker 2: Cabot is scared that the jury's buying the bullshit, So
Speaker 2: what do we do?
Speaker 1: What do we do?
Speaker 2: And Sailor says, it's not about culture, it's about the father.
Speaker 2: Everyone is scared of the father, and Benson says, except
Speaker 2: for one person, Miss is a mirror and they're like,
Speaker 2: she's not gonna give up her son or go against
Speaker 2: her husband, and Benson goes, she already has.
Speaker 1: She told us he was on the plane.
Speaker 2: So Finn says, if she testifies, she sentencing herself to
Speaker 2: death and he is the reason her daughter is dead
Speaker 2: and she wants justice for her memory. Benson argues, and
Speaker 2: Finn is like, we can't ask her to do this
Speaker 2: unless we're ready to protect her. Craigan says, we are
Speaker 2: ready twenty four to seven, but please do not cross
Speaker 2: any diplomatic lines. Benson is talking to the mom and
Speaker 2: Stabler as standing further back in the room. The mom
Speaker 2: is like, I already lost my daughter and I don't
Speaker 2: want to lose Jaliel too. She's like, you don't get it,
Speaker 2: and Benson is like, no, we get it for sure.
Speaker 2: But Nafisa was like the ticket home. He promised her
Speaker 2: to the Tally Band, didn't he, And when she was
Speaker 2: sleeping with someone else, he had Jaliel kill her. And
Speaker 2: then Finn pops out of nowhere like you do not
Speaker 2: see him at all. It's like he's crouching in a
Speaker 2: magic show and his head just pops out from behind Benson.
Speaker 1: It is wild, and he goes.
Speaker 2: We can protect you, and she goes, I don't want
Speaker 2: your protection. I want my daughter, She cries, This is
Speaker 2: so sad, but she is on the stand now. Fisa
Speaker 2: came home to be with us. My husband asked her
Speaker 2: if she was still a virgin, and she wasn't. I
Speaker 2: don't understand why she wouldn't lie.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, like you know, your dad's a psychopath.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe she thought if I say that I've slept
Speaker 3: with this man, they'll let me marry this man because
Speaker 3: he is still part of the culture.
Speaker 1: But he's just not a person that she was promised to.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why she didn't just lie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but or like if she wasn't, that means she
Speaker 2: couldn't be married off, Like you're right, maybe that would
Speaker 2: be her ticket to freedom.
Speaker 1: Like if they can't do that, I don't know. So
Speaker 1: he hit her.
Speaker 2: She fell, and while she talks, the dad just looks
Speaker 2: forward with an expression just shark guys, straight ahead, and
Speaker 2: you know, on the stand, she continues. When Juliel tried
Speaker 2: to help her, the husband said, let her lie there,
Speaker 2: like she lies there with her American boyfriend. Then her
Speaker 2: husband got a knife from the kitchen and Jalil begged
Speaker 2: him not to, and the dad points his evil eyes
Speaker 2: towards his wife talking, and then the husband told Jalil
Speaker 2: to kill her for our honor, and it's like, you're
Speaker 2: just a murderer, Like you're not, like I kill her
Speaker 2: to prove his manhood, and he stabbed her. The mom
Speaker 2: is crying, Jalil is crying a little and looking down.
Speaker 2: Finally he's ashamed, and they they took her away and
Speaker 2: she's crying on the stand and a woman, a woman
Speaker 2: juror reads the verdict and guilty, guilty of murder. Bye bitch.
Speaker 2: But the dad is gone. So Cabot calls the cab
Speaker 2: the captain to let him know about the conviction. But
Speaker 2: also he's like, listen, the dad wasn't there. He does
Speaker 2: not miss the second of this trial until today. So
Speaker 2: the cops are back to the door guy building, and
Speaker 2: the door guy's like, oh, the dad left last night
Speaker 2: in a limo, but the wife wasn't with him. They
Speaker 2: run upstairs. She's on the bed dead, covered in blood.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler look at each other and that's unfortunately
Speaker 2: dick wolf.
Speaker 3: So I just don't get why right after her testimony
Speaker 3: they would have arrested him.
Speaker 1: Why was he allowed to leave? Like what you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like she just testified that he was.
Speaker 2: Uh, Like like, I wonder if it's diplomat shit.
Speaker 1: Again, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Because he was a full accessory to a murder, like
Speaker 3: to say, do it?
Speaker 1: Do it right?
Speaker 2: Like people have been put to death for less. Like Okay,
Speaker 2: I just google quickly. Why are diplomats given immunity? This
Speaker 2: immunity ensures that diplomats are able to conduct their duties
Speaker 2: and activities efficiently without being subject to oppression or reprisal
Speaker 2: from any entity in.
Speaker 1: The receiving state.
Speaker 2: Oh like that you like you can't frame them for anything,
Speaker 2: or like if your enemies or a contrary.
Speaker 3: Because you could invite somebody over. Yeah, I guess you
Speaker 3: could invite someone to your country and then like fully
Speaker 3: throw them in jail.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which
Speaker 2: most countries have ratified, offers diplomats acting as officials of
Speaker 2: state almost total protection from subjectal subjection to criminal, administrative,
Speaker 2: and civil laws belonging to the country in which the
Speaker 2: diplomatic mission is located. I just don't understand why, like
Speaker 2: rape and murder can't be exempt they I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that feels wild. It says what happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, these are just like basic Google stuff, So
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but what happens if the diplomat commits a crime? However,
Speaker 2: this is not universal, and diplomats have been processed, get it,
Speaker 2: and jailed for crimes committed outside the country they're credited to.
Speaker 2: But diplomats are exempt from being prosecuted by the state
Speaker 2: and open court when they're suspected to be the guilty
Speaker 2: of a car crime. I mean, we'll have to go
Speaker 2: dig deeper into this because it is interesting. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: I'll go to Reddit. This will be in the language
Speaker 2: I understand. All right, Well, I can't wait to learn
Speaker 2: about honor killings. Kara, We'll be right back. So, okay,
Speaker 2: we're back.
Speaker 1: And at first when.
Speaker 3: They find the victim in this episode, they do bring
Speaker 3: up wild things like I touched on before, and that
Speaker 3: is a reference to the case of Trisha Maylee aka
Speaker 3: the Central Park jogger and what became known as the
Speaker 3: Central Park five case. But there is another sbu more
Speaker 3: closely related to that, so we will cover that another time.
Speaker 3: Episode is based on the practice of honor killings, which
Speaker 3: we've obviously been discussing, which is when a family when
Speaker 3: someone in a family is killed by a family member
Speaker 3: or by someone the family has enlisted to kill on
Speaker 3: their behalf. It is a crime most often perpetrated on
Speaker 3: women by male family members, as we can you know, suppose,
Speaker 3: and if a woman is believed to have acted in
Speaker 3: a way that would taint her family's name or status,
Speaker 3: she can face violent punishment that often ends in death.
Speaker 3: According to Amnesty International, quote unquote, honor crime is rooted
Speaker 3: in a global culture of discrimination against women and the
Speaker 3: deeply rooted belief that women are objects and commodities, not
Speaker 3: human beings entitled to dignity and rights equal to those
Speaker 3: of men. Women's bodies particularly are considered the repositories of
Speaker 3: family honor and under the control and responsibility of her family,
Speaker 3: especially her male relatives, and large sections of society share
Speaker 3: traditional conceptions of family honor and approve of quote honor
Speaker 3: killings that preserve that honor. End quote end of the
Speaker 3: full quote. So women can be targeted for having an
Speaker 3: extra marital affair or engaging in any kind of sexual
Speaker 3: behavior before marriage, but also for divorcing, even if it's
Speaker 3: an abusive husband.
Speaker 1: Or for being a of sexual assault.
Speaker 3: We have seen that in other episodes, the episode Night
Speaker 3: that we cover at our live shows. Sometimes there is
Speaker 3: a woman who in the Muslim faith, whose brother you know,
Speaker 3: is not he beats the shit out of Diane Neal
Speaker 3: because he exposed that his sister had been sexually assaulted.
Speaker 3: Women who have been sexually assaulted in these in places
Speaker 3: where honor killings are common, cannot only expect police and
Speaker 3: judges to humiliate them and not investigate crimes against them,
Speaker 3: but they must now also fear their fathers, brothers, and
Speaker 3: sons who now must avenge the family's honor by murdering them.
Speaker 3: What's fucked up too that I learn is that much
Speaker 3: like in this episode, they often enlist minors, younger boys
Speaker 3: to carry out these crimes because they know they'll have
Speaker 3: the easiest legal repercussions, if any at all. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, he's seventeen, what are we going to do?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Like and Julia in this case was twenty one, but
Speaker 3: had just been on the other side of his immunity protection.
Speaker 3: So according to the World Health Organization in twenty twelve,
Speaker 3: it was estimated that around five thousand murders occur each
Speaker 3: year worldwide in the name of honor, but I could
Speaker 3: not find a more recent statistic about that they are.
Speaker 3: Honor killings are widely reported in regions throughout the Middle
Speaker 3: East and South Asia, but also Bangladesh, Brazil, Canada, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, Uganda,
Speaker 3: United Kingdom, and the United States. They in Jordan in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, honor killings accounted for one third of
Speaker 3: the murders of women in Jordan. And so this Jordanian
Speaker 3: journalist and human rights activist named Rana Husseini exposed honor
Speaker 3: killings in Jordan around that time, and it was only
Speaker 3: a couple of years before this episode came out, So
Speaker 3: that was like big reporting where she sort of brought
Speaker 3: this to the forefront. It was sort of like a
Speaker 3: cultural secret before that.
Speaker 2: While I'm also curious if this is like ancient stuff
Speaker 2: or if this is Taliban stuff that like came in
Speaker 2: after revolution, you know, like I do wonder if says, oh, well,
Speaker 2: we used to do it thousands of years ago, or
Speaker 2: because you know, so much of the stuff going on
Speaker 2: there was not happening in the seventies, you know, like
Speaker 2: women wearing mini skirts. So I am so curious if
Speaker 2: this is ancient or just some new, fucked up rewording
Speaker 2: of things.
Speaker 3: I do think it goes back, but you know, like,
Speaker 3: but then there's always there's modernity, and then there's cycles
Speaker 3: where things sway back to the ancient again. You know,
Speaker 3: people are like, that's not you know, what we were
Speaker 3: meant to be doing. So I do think it goes back.
Speaker 3: But you know, this journalist like risked her fucking life.
Speaker 3: She totally knew that she was going to be a target.
Speaker 3: She wrote all these reports about about honor killings, launched
Speaker 3: a campaign to get them stopped. She was threatened, accused
Speaker 3: of being anti Islam, anti family, anti Jordan, but Queen
Speaker 3: nor the Queen of Jordan, really cared about this cause.
Speaker 3: And then the incoming king, King Hassan, voiced the need
Speaker 3: to protect women in his opening address to parliament. So
Speaker 3: Jordan did end up passing some honor killing law. And
Speaker 3: she's responsible, really, that journalist, for exposing the truth about
Speaker 3: all this and starting the movement. But what I was
Speaker 3: reading is that even in countries like Jordan, where laws
Speaker 3: of been passed to stop honor killings and honor crime.
Speaker 3: They are often not enforced and in many many countries
Speaker 3: there's actually like no punishment for the crimes at all.
Speaker 3: So that's the general overview, as if we didn't really
Speaker 3: get that from the SBU episode. Just giving a little
Speaker 3: bit more context, and now I'm going to talk about
Speaker 3: a case that's going to make us all very sad.
Speaker 3: So this episode is likely based on a specific honor killing,
Speaker 3: the murder of Palestina. Her nickname was Tina Issa as
Speaker 3: the last name. Tina was the youngest of seven children
Speaker 3: growing up in Saint Louis, Missouri. Her father's Zion was
Speaker 3: a Muslim Palestinian and her mother, Maria Lisa, was actually
Speaker 3: a Brazilian and a Roman Catholic, and it was not
Speaker 3: until Maria was married to zign and already pregnant with
Speaker 3: his child, that he let her know she was his
Speaker 3: second wife. Not like I'm divorced and you're my second wife,
Speaker 3: but I have you're my second wife.
Speaker 1: I have two wives.
Speaker 3: His religious beliefs told him that that was none of
Speaker 3: her business and he would tell her when she needed
Speaker 3: to know. She was pretty upset by that. But what
Speaker 3: can she do. She's married and she's pregnant. So they
Speaker 3: move all around with these children, either in North Carolina, Jersey,
Speaker 3: Puerto Rico, back to Brazil. In nineteen eighty Zion became
Speaker 3: a naturalized US citizen, and in nineteen eighty six they
Speaker 3: came to Saint Louis, where the father started like owning
Speaker 3: and operating a grocery store. And that's when Tina would
Speaker 3: have been around fourteen. And this is around the time
Speaker 3: that Tina's once close relationship with her father really started
Speaker 3: to you know, fade, because she began to experience American culture.
Speaker 3: She listened to rap and rock music. She played soccer
Speaker 3: and tennis, even though her dad didn't want or two.
Speaker 3: One thing I read said she made the cheerleading squad.
Speaker 3: I don't know if her parents let her do that.
Speaker 3: But she wanted to take aeronautical engineering courses. She wanted
Speaker 3: to become a pilot, and her father wanted to arrange
Speaker 3: a marriage for her with a guy from the West Bank,
Speaker 3: which is you know, paralleling some of the episode issues
Speaker 3: as well. So, okay, so you hear a lot about
Speaker 3: her older sisters. She's one of seven. She has three
Speaker 3: older sisters, so there must be three brothers somewhere, but
Speaker 3: we don't. I just they're not really talked about in
Speaker 3: a lot of the research that I did. Her three
Speaker 3: older sisters are in their twenties and they're all married
Speaker 3: off to you know, men within their culture, and they
Speaker 3: do not like her lifestyle. They don't like they've all
Speaker 3: they've all gotten married, they've left the house, but they
Speaker 3: don't like, you know, how baby sister is acting.
Speaker 1: And she is the only daughter at home at this point.
Speaker 3: At one point, the mother and the sisters, Tina went
Speaker 3: to prom, and the mother and the sisters went and
Speaker 3: like tracked her down and like pulled her out of
Speaker 3: the prom and she was crying.
Speaker 1: It was like a very you know.
Speaker 3: I remember like hearing about kids randomly in high school
Speaker 3: that like weren't allowed to go to dances, and like
Speaker 3: I read, I remember someone's parents showing up and being like,
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to be at this dance, but I
Speaker 3: can't remember who it was.
Speaker 2: And I just remember one friend and she was a
Speaker 2: Syrian but her mom did not want her on our
Speaker 2: basketball team. So she played for two years but then
Speaker 2: told to get out, was not allowed to She would
Speaker 2: work at the bank and then we would go visit
Speaker 2: her because that was the only way we could hang
Speaker 2: out because she came from such a strict family, so
Speaker 2: we would go to the bank to.
Speaker 4: Talk to her.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's what.
Speaker 2: But then she said, but she was allowed to hang
Speaker 2: out with people from church, and like some of those
Speaker 2: girls are whores, you know what I mean, like the
Speaker 2: idea that the church girls were the good girls. And
Speaker 2: so she would hang out with this one girl who
Speaker 2: was like really I just remember she was just like
Speaker 2: really pretty and awesome. But so they would go hang
Speaker 2: out and the mom was like, oh, well, she's from church,
Speaker 2: but really they were out there making out.
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, church girls.
Speaker 2: But I didn't go to dances, but that's because I
Speaker 2: was at the movies every Friday with my parents.
Speaker 1: So I think they would have loved for me to
Speaker 1: go to a dance. Dude, did did they did? You
Speaker 1: just didn't act. You were like, I'd rather go to
Speaker 1: the movie.
Speaker 2: We just went to the movies every Friday for at least, so.
Speaker 3: If anything came up on a Friday, you were like,
Speaker 3: can't go into the movies.
Speaker 2: I didn't even think about it. I knew the dances
Speaker 2: were happening. But I had plans, right, I got plans.
Speaker 3: Because after the movie, I'm going to see a movie
Speaker 3: that's probably wildly agent appropriate for me. Yeah, because after
Speaker 3: the movies, we would then hit up TJ Max Amazing Savings.
Speaker 2: We'd go to Dominix, which is like the grocery store. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd get some briers. Listen, we had this.
Speaker 1: This is a full Friday night. We have a traditions.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I had to do Rosie's heritage project with her. I
Speaker 3: can see what your heritage project would be showing the
Speaker 3: Friday night. Wait, I want to see the heritage project.
Speaker 3: Oh girl, you're gonna be embarrassed for us. It's just
Speaker 3: like whiteness everywhere. But I will take there is a
Speaker 3: picture of the kids with the manora, and I will
Speaker 3: take uh photo of it and send it to you.
Speaker 1: Okay, dare have it.
Speaker 3: But here's the thing about Tina. She's also an honor student. Okay,
Speaker 3: she moved there at fourteen and was like learning English.
Speaker 3: But she's doing so good in school, Like she's I
Speaker 3: don't know the fact that like we just can't see
Speaker 3: like these women as like fully formed people. She's a
Speaker 3: smart person. But it's like, no, she's just like a
Speaker 3: body who represents my family. The one of the detectives
Speaker 3: who worked on her case, Harry Heger, said, quote her
Speaker 3: close friends told us that she often came to school
Speaker 3: with bruises and welts, and that she had been physically
Speaker 3: abused by her parents. At one point, she had hot
Speaker 3: coffee thrown at her end quote. So her home life
Speaker 3: is not good in the States, but she does love friend,
Speaker 3: she has friends, she seems like she's doing.
Speaker 1: Well in school.
Speaker 3: And then her parents found out that she had been
Speaker 3: in a relationship with an African American guy named Cliff Walker.
Speaker 3: He was twenty, she was sixteen, and they were furious,
Speaker 3: not only because he is outside of their faith, but
Speaker 3: also the father was extremely racist against black people because
Speaker 3: he thought that Palestinian business owners in.
Speaker 1: The US were being targeted by black criminals. That was
Speaker 1: his thought.
Speaker 3: So what's wild, too, is the women in the family
Speaker 3: were not permitted to date outside their faith, even though
Speaker 3: the father is Muslim and the mother is Roman Catholic.
Speaker 3: So what you know this the hypocrisy abounds. Obviously, they
Speaker 3: were also furious that she was taking a job at Wendy's.
Speaker 3: They had said she wasn't allowed to. It's like it's
Speaker 3: unclear whether she told them that she actually.
Speaker 1: Took the job.
Speaker 3: And because they the only job she was permitted to
Speaker 3: take was to be working at the family grocery store.
Speaker 3: So apparently her father was making calls to other family members,
Speaker 3: also complaining about how she was bringing shame to the
Speaker 3: family and that she had to die. All this stuff.
Speaker 3: There is a book called Guarding the Secrets written by
Speaker 3: Ellen Harris, and it's a book completely about the murder,
Speaker 3: and in it she wrote that quote the problem was
Speaker 3: that Tina thought of herself as American or hyphenated American,
Speaker 3: not as arab end quote. So a lot of mirroring
Speaker 3: to what's happening with the FISA in the episode. So
Speaker 3: she's been dating it's nineteen eighty nine. She's been dating
Speaker 3: Cliff since January. On November sixth of nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 3: her boyfriend Cliff is walking her home after her first
Speaker 3: day of work at Wendy's. She's on like a night shift.
Speaker 3: She gets home around midnight, her mother yells, where were you, bitch,
Speaker 3: her father calls her a she devil, and then her
Speaker 3: father says to her, quote do you know that this
Speaker 3: is the last day, tonight, you're going to die. And
Speaker 3: then she says, what huh, And he says, you're going
Speaker 3: to die tonight. And then Tina's mother held her down
Speaker 3: while her father stabbed her with a boning knife six times.
Speaker 3: One of her lungs, her liver, and her heart were
Speaker 3: severely damaged in the attack. And the reason we know
Speaker 3: all of the detailed conversations.
Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, I don't understand how this Brazilian
Speaker 2: Catholic woman became so radicalized in this way to hold
Speaker 2: her daughter down.
Speaker 1: She did, She just did. Like this man, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would have it that the.
Speaker 2: Religion has to be an excuse for the murderous race,
Speaker 2: like this is a psychopath that could have found.
Speaker 1: Any reason to murder.
Speaker 2: Like there's no way. I'm like, I'm devastated right now.
Speaker 2: I know it's the most horrible. But here's what's wild.
Speaker 3: The reason we know all the detailed conversation that they
Speaker 3: had right before she died, the reason I can quote
Speaker 3: exactly what was said before they died, is because her
Speaker 3: father's Zion at the time of her murder was under
Speaker 3: investigation by the FBI because they thought he was involved
Speaker 3: in illegal activities on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization
Speaker 3: the PLO. So the home was bugged and audio of
Speaker 3: the entire murder was recorded.
Speaker 1: There is a tape of the killing.
Speaker 3: It is seven minutes long, and on it you can
Speaker 3: hear her father, who after he murdered her, shouting in
Speaker 3: Arabic to her die quickly, die quickly in response to
Speaker 3: his daughter, like pleading for her life and she's begging
Speaker 3: her mother to help her.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's horrific, It's horrific.
Speaker 3: He also admitted on the stand at his trial that
Speaker 3: he put his foot on his daughter's mouth to quiet
Speaker 3: her while she was dying.
Speaker 1: The mother did not testify.
Speaker 3: It is also unclear whether the FBI could have prevented
Speaker 3: the killing, because the FBI refuses to discuss the tapes.
Speaker 3: They just kind of handed them over to prosecutors. But
Speaker 3: you know, the FBI has all this protection and they
Speaker 3: can do it the fuck they want. But apparently he
Speaker 3: had been having many conversations with his older daughters that
Speaker 3: were begging him to discipline Tina, and they overheard him
Speaker 3: talking to his daughter Soriyah, who was twenty four at
Speaker 3: the time. She suggested, why don't you lock her in
Speaker 3: the basement and proposed hiring quote a black guy who's
Speaker 3: always in trouble end quote to kill her. But Zein
Speaker 3: said he couldn't have a stranger quote do my job.
Speaker 3: So his daughter suggests, why don't we get someone else
Speaker 3: to kill my little sister, and then zion says, that's
Speaker 3: my job. Like, I mean, the brainwashing going around the
Speaker 3: entire family is so wild like and the FBI says
Speaker 3: it didn't take any action even though it heard these
Speaker 3: kinds of conversations because Zin often made empty threats. They
Speaker 3: could have called ACS anonymously and said there is a
Speaker 3: violence happening in this home against this teenager, but they
Speaker 3: did not. And so the parents claim that zion Isa
Speaker 3: killed Tina in defense after she threatened them with a
Speaker 3: knife and demanded five thousand dollars, like they made up
Speaker 3: this full thing, because there is a tape of the
Speaker 3: entire thing. They claimed that she maybe was drinking or
Speaker 3: on drugs and that she had defied them by dating
Speaker 3: someone they disapproved of.
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sure this honor student coming home from her job at
Speaker 3: midnight just decided to grab a knife and ask for
Speaker 3: five k. Like the story does not work. Tina Issa
Speaker 3: was buried at Sacred Heart Cemetery and Flora sent Missouri,
Speaker 3: where her family gave no notice of the funeral, specifically
Speaker 3: so that the boyfriend could not attend.
Speaker 1: She was buried in a wedding dress.
Speaker 3: And also not that it matters, but the boyfriend says
Speaker 3: they never slept together, so it's like they just murdered
Speaker 3: her for no not that there was a reason, even
Speaker 3: if they did, but even in their minds, their reason
Speaker 3: was incorrect. On October twenty fifth of nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 3: they were convicted of first degree murder. The jury deliberated
Speaker 3: for less than four hours. On December twentieth, they were
Speaker 3: sentenced to death by lethal injection. They did not give
Speaker 3: a fuck and they were not remorseful. Maria told the judge, quote,
Speaker 3: my daughter was very disrespectful and very rebellius. We should
Speaker 3: not have to pay for our lot, with our lives
Speaker 3: for something she did.
Speaker 1: End quote.
Speaker 3: So when you ask how she's like radicalized, I mean
Speaker 3: she's just absolutely radicalized, Like no remorse after sitting in
Speaker 3: jail for two years waiting trial, and now you're going
Speaker 3: to like, the jury has convicted you, and you're just
Speaker 3: still like so brainwashed that what you did was correct
Speaker 3: and in line with your faith. The judge, Judge Charles A. Shaw, said, quote,
Speaker 3: culture is no excuse for murder. I see no reason
Speaker 3: to deviate from the jury's recommendation end quote. And in
Speaker 3: April of nineteen ninety three, the father was actually indicted
Speaker 3: by the FBI in connection with his terrorist activities within
Speaker 3: the Abu Nidal organization. Federal prosecutors accused him of killing Tina,
Speaker 3: partly because he feared she could expose his ano activities,
Speaker 3: but then those charges were later dropped because he was
Speaker 3: already on death row for his daughter's murder. Sadly, this
Speaker 3: motherfucker died of complications of diabetes only you know, six
Speaker 3: years in his sentence in nineteen ninety seven. His wife,
Speaker 3: her death sentence was eventually commuted to life imprisonment without parole.
Speaker 3: She died in April of twenty fourteen from natural causes
Speaker 3: at the age of seventy.
Speaker 1: So they are both gone from this earth.
Speaker 2: My thing is like, why come to America? Then, Like
Speaker 2: you're saying everything here is terrible, yet you're coming here,
Speaker 2: go like go live somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's the thing. They had moved all they
Speaker 3: had moved from America. They'd been in I mean, well
Speaker 3: Puerto Rico was part of the States, but like they'd
Speaker 3: been in Brazil, Like she had family in Brazil. That's
Speaker 3: where they met the parents. It's like, go go somewhere
Speaker 3: else if you think that this culture. But I think
Speaker 3: they would have so different. So I don't mean to
Speaker 3: not even compare the two.
Speaker 2: But my mom and I Kumil's movie The Big Sick.
Speaker 2: There's like a scene where he's arguing with his parents,
Speaker 2: and my mom I remember talking about it after she
Speaker 2: saw the movie, because he tells his parents like you
Speaker 2: moved to this kind like let me live as an
Speaker 2: like let me live here.
Speaker 1: You moved here for my freedom, right, let me be free?
Speaker 2: Like why do you want me to still do arranged
Speaker 2: marriage and do this old school shit like let me live?
Speaker 2: And I just remember that, Like, you know, my parents
Speaker 2: have always they knew they didn't have a chance. But
Speaker 2: and this is different. I think this is sociopath Like
Speaker 2: these are psychopath lers. If it wasn't her, they would
Speaker 2: have killed someone. Like I just don't feel like it,
Speaker 2: like the judge said, culture is no excuse for murder.
Speaker 2: I don't think this is the culture like I do
Speaker 2: think you have to have this rage in you.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And since, honestly, since this episode came out, there's been
Speaker 3: a couple of other like high profile ones, like there
Speaker 3: was a girl that was her dad ran her over
Speaker 3: with a car and killed her, Like you know, there's
Speaker 3: there have been a few others in the States.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: That's why I feel even strange bringing up the Big
Speaker 2: Sick because it is just like a comedy, you know,
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: No no, but this is a moment and that is
Speaker 3: all of it. Moment in the about what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Why from these the.
Speaker 2: Whole idea as like an immigrant is you come to
Speaker 2: America for freedoms that you do not have where you are. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So then I don't understand why you would continue to
Speaker 2: not give the freedom to your kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying throw away your culture and belief
Speaker 2: certain everything, but it is confusing to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, honestly, the Wikipedia page on honor
Speaker 3: killings at the bottom just has like two dozen victims
Speaker 3: of those are just notable cases, you know, those are
Speaker 3: usually people that were living in places like where it
Speaker 3: would be you know, not as common, and so like
Speaker 3: media attention was brought to it, but I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's uh yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm also curious what portion of like the population
Speaker 2: of these countries adheres to this and how much of
Speaker 2: it is well this is pre nine to eleven, but
Speaker 2: like how much of this is.
Speaker 1: Stirred up by Islamophobia?
Speaker 2: Like I have no idea, Like I think about this
Speaker 2: with general mutilation like too, but I but they're both.
Speaker 1: Even if it's a small amount, it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But I'm curious do we take honor killings
Speaker 2: to be scared of brown people, like, oh, look at them,
Speaker 2: they're backwards or is it like you said, a few
Speaker 2: doesen't you know? Like like I just don't and I
Speaker 2: just don't know how You're like living in a country
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, the tally but like
Speaker 2: the government changes and suddenly you're in a burka, Like
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Yeah, it's scary, but this is happening
Speaker 2: to women in our country right now, where like one
Speaker 2: day you can have a miscarriage and go to a
Speaker 2: hospital and then one day the.
Speaker 1: Next day, you can't, you'll be prosecuted, So I you know,
Speaker 1: does it happen?
Speaker 2: So I just it's it's just too big, honestly for
Speaker 2: me to even be It makes me so sad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is a really sad like this like
Speaker 3: was a girl who was also.
Speaker 2: Just thinking about her, like thinking about her as her
Speaker 2: mom holds you down and your dad is stabbing you.
Speaker 3: And that like and that they just never could even
Speaker 3: show remort like that is like so like that when
Speaker 3: you were talking about like being sociopaths. It's like they
Speaker 3: couldn't even later say we were caught up and you
Speaker 3: know we've had time to think about our actions.
Speaker 1: Our daughter is dead. No there's no remorse. Well that's
Speaker 1: also probably self preservation too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one is fucked.
Speaker 3: But I will say we have an amazing guest that's
Speaker 3: going to really bring this back, this whole episode, because
Speaker 3: we had an amazing conversation with this actor.
Speaker 1: So stay right there, okay, our.
Speaker 3: Guests today, I'll get a get for both of us.
Speaker 3: We are we're so excited to get him. He is
Speaker 3: a prolific actor. He was a Daily show correspondent for
Speaker 3: a decade and he is also a main cast member
Speaker 3: on a show that my husband and I are obsessed
Speaker 3: with called Evil, which you can catch the new season
Speaker 3: coming out very soon on Paramount Plus, and past seasons
Speaker 3: are on Paramount Plus as well as Netflix. He's been
Speaker 3: on every major TV show, including for us a very special.
Speaker 3: He was the sad Mac computer guy on Sex and
Speaker 3: the City. But you know him today as Hanford University
Speaker 3: instructor Professor Husseini. Please enjoy our wonderful conversation with Asif
Speaker 3: monby Awesif.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. We're excited to have.
Speaker 2: You to talk about a show from two thousand.
Speaker 1: Yes, to talk about a show you did over twenty
Speaker 1: years twenty four years ago.
Speaker 3: Which I'm sure you have a crystal clear memory of
Speaker 3: and we are here to explore that.
Speaker 4: You know. It's yeah, Surprisingly, I do have a very
Speaker 4: clear memory of it. I don't I haven't watched. I
Speaker 4: haven't watched the episode.
Speaker 1: And it's a hard one to watch. It's a sad one.
Speaker 4: A hard is it a sad one? I seem to
Speaker 4: where it's a sad one.
Speaker 2: It's one that I it took me forever to rewatch
Speaker 2: because I just knew that I was going to be
Speaker 2: so sad.
Speaker 4: I do remember that. I remember that I had a
Speaker 4: go tea. I remember I had a go tea in
Speaker 4: it and I spoke with an accent. And do you
Speaker 4: remember that I did. I do remember that. But you
Speaker 4: know I did so many law and orders.
Speaker 1: Yes, you've been on four.
Speaker 3: We talked to a lot of people that have done
Speaker 3: the three, like the Holy Trinity of like original recipe, SVU,
Speaker 3: criminal Intent. But you've also done trial by jury, which
Speaker 3: was short lived. So for you to be a a
Speaker 3: quattro is pretty impressive.
Speaker 4: And I went from and I went from you know,
Speaker 4: starting off as a hot dog vendor all the way
Speaker 4: to trial by jury, which is the last one I did.
Speaker 4: When I was the judge, I was I felt like,
Speaker 4: I feel like I made my parents proud.
Speaker 1: You know, you were a judge. That's a judge.
Speaker 4: I was a young Indian conservative judge at the time.
Speaker 4: This was you know, pre Bobby Jindall, so, uh, it
Speaker 4: was it was pre Nikki Haley, you know. So it
Speaker 4: was sort of like, what is that a thing? And
Speaker 4: now I'm like, oh, that's a thing, that's a real thing. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Pre vivek Ramaswami, you know, yes, he was. He was
Speaker 4: sort of vivek ramaswami ish a little bit.
Speaker 1: I don't know who that is.
Speaker 4: I don't know who that is.
Speaker 3: He's the guy that just ran for president. I'm sure
Speaker 3: you've seen him on your Instagram. He was like conservative conservative,
Speaker 3: like loves Trump and Elon.
Speaker 4: Conservative has has this has a sort of like uh
Speaker 4: a hairdo that sort of starts like at the very
Speaker 4: top of his head and then just keeps going up
Speaker 4: kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And young people are like young Republicans are like, we're
Speaker 3: gonna go for him because he knows how to use
Speaker 3: social media because he's like, I think, only in his
Speaker 3: thirties or forties or something.
Speaker 4: He's like, uh, he's yeah, he's it's just new Google
Speaker 4: and you'll see.
Speaker 1: No, I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: Scrolling through your IMDb, not so much in the Law
Speaker 2: and Order Universe, but a lot of doctors.
Speaker 1: You've played a lot of.
Speaker 4: Well look at my face. Yeah, so are you when
Speaker 4: you have this, when you have this much melanin what
Speaker 4: happens in Hollywood?
Speaker 1: Are you good with all the medical lingo?
Speaker 4: Like when you get to set, now you know what
Speaker 4: I actually uh yeah, it's so funny, Like I literally
Speaker 4: played I've played so many doctors. I never got into
Speaker 4: like the but I there was. There was a couple
Speaker 4: of moments when one time I was a doctor on
Speaker 4: a soap opera. I forget which one it was. It
Speaker 4: was maybe it was Young and the Restless or or
Speaker 4: one of those. And they were just like, we're just
Speaker 4: going to use your name, and I was like, what
Speaker 4: do you mean And they were like, we'll just call
Speaker 4: you doctor Monvie. And I was like okay. And then
Speaker 4: first of all, I was like, wait, should I call
Speaker 4: my agent? Did I get more money for that or something?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: And then they were like, which is gonna do? So
Speaker 4: in the show, they're just like paging doctor Monvie, paging
Speaker 4: Doctor Monvie. And I literally was like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: this is my mother has to watch this. It's gonna
Speaker 4: be like her dream, you know.
Speaker 1: It gets to hear it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you were killing it in New York because
Speaker 2: also you're in Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: You were in all the hip shows in New York
Speaker 1: in the city.
Speaker 4: That was all the all the hip shows, the ohs,
Speaker 4: the Law and Orders, the Sex and the Cities, the uh.
Speaker 4: I was even on New York Undercover. Oh I was.
Speaker 4: I was on every show that was shooting in New
Speaker 4: York for a while, you know. I mean that's what
Speaker 4: you did when you're a young actor in New York,
Speaker 4: just trying to get your health insurance paid for sure,
Speaker 4: just do like all the guest spots and stuff on
Speaker 4: every show that's shooting. And I never went out to
Speaker 4: LA So it was always working in New York.
Speaker 3: You know, do you remember like getting because it, like
Speaker 3: according to your IMDb like it sort of looks like
Speaker 3: original recipe. Law in Order, like the Dick Wolf Universe
Speaker 3: was kind of some of your first jobs. So do
Speaker 3: you ever being like, oh, it's happening well?
Speaker 2: And The Cosby Mysteries.
Speaker 4: Was, Oh yeah, I did The Cosby Mysteries. That was
Speaker 4: a short lived show where Bill Cosby.
Speaker 2: Played a criminologist, criminologist the guy who And I, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I like what I mean.
Speaker 1: I loved Bill Cosby's stuff.
Speaker 4: You know what's crazy about that is like now everything
Speaker 4: we know about Bill Cosby. You know. It was like
Speaker 4: he asked, so I was doing the scene with him.
Speaker 4: I don't know, we're talking about Lawn Order, but we
Speaker 4: can talk about this he was, He said to me,
Speaker 4: I was playing his cab driver. There you go. That
Speaker 4: was another round. That was another part that I did
Speaker 4: a lot a ken the face, right, so doctors and
Speaker 4: cab drivers. But I was playing his cab driver. And
Speaker 4: I remember like, there are a bunch of lines that
Speaker 4: we had back and forth, and he said, uh, why
Speaker 4: don't you just you know, after that they rehearsed it.
Speaker 4: Then he said, why do you just come back to
Speaker 4: my trailer and we will we'll run lines. And I
Speaker 4: was like, oh great, you know, and uh so I
Speaker 4: went back to his trailer and he was just like
Speaker 4: hanging out in his trailer and I just remember it
Speaker 4: was like my first brush with like sort of superstardom,
Speaker 4: you know, like and I remember this so distinctly. He
Speaker 4: was he had an assistant. I forget her name, let's
Speaker 4: just call her Jennifer Jen and and uh and he said,
Speaker 4: uh and I'm gonna do a bad Bill Cosby right now.
Speaker 4: He was like he was like Jen Earlier today, I
Speaker 4: was watching Kujo, the movie Kujo, and now this was
Speaker 4: remember this was like before like you know, you could
Speaker 4: just get a movie whenever you wanted it right, like
Speaker 4: you had to, you know, you could get a movie
Speaker 4: like they had Blockbuster. You had to go to Blockbuster
Speaker 4: and get a VHS to get the movie right. So
Speaker 4: I remember Bill Cosby saying I was watching Kujo earlier
Speaker 4: and I didn't get to finish watching it because I
Speaker 4: had to come to work. Can you call HBO and
Speaker 4: just tell them that Bill Cosby would like a copy
Speaker 4: of the movie Kujo and if they could just send
Speaker 4: it over. He's like, I was watching it on HBO.
Speaker 1: Truly a knew definition of home box office, Like.
Speaker 4: He was literally fitting it like a homebox Yes. I
Speaker 4: was like, holy shit, like you can do that, Like
Speaker 4: when you're that famous, you could do that.
Speaker 2: What has been the coolest flex that you've been able
Speaker 2: to do? Or like a moment where you've used your
Speaker 2: success to get out?
Speaker 4: You know what, Whenever I try to flex, it just backfires.
Speaker 4: Like I never I stopped trying to flex. I mean
Speaker 4: I used to do the whole like I'm on a
Speaker 4: TV show, you know, like I'm I tried to one time.
Speaker 4: I think I tried to. Uh, there was a there
Speaker 4: was a birthday party at some fancy schmancy like hotel
Speaker 4: here in New York where you had to like, you know,
Speaker 4: try to get in and and I had brought a
Speaker 4: cupcakes and they wouldn't let me bring the cupcakes in.
Speaker 4: This is so stupid, and I don't let me bring
Speaker 4: the cupcakes in. So I was like, I literally this
Speaker 4: is so embarrassing, I literally said, because I was the
Speaker 4: guy was being a total asshole. He was like, you
Speaker 4: can't and I was like, no, the cupcakes for my
Speaker 4: friend who had her birthday. And I brought cupcakes, you know,
Speaker 4: because I was put candles in the cupcakes like a
Speaker 4: little joking. She's like, you can't bring cupcakes, can't bring
Speaker 4: them in? And I was like, I was like, do
Speaker 4: you know who I am? I literally did the do
Speaker 4: you know who I am? I'm on And that was
Speaker 4: when I was on the Daily Show and I was
Speaker 4: like and I tried it, and I felt like a
Speaker 4: complete asshole. I was like because the guy was like,
Speaker 4: I do and you can't bring them in. And I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, well, I'm glad, thank you so much,
Speaker 4: and I like, she pishly put the cupcakes down and
Speaker 4: walked in. But yeah, never you know, if it happens
Speaker 4: where somebody recognizes me and they give me like you know,
Speaker 4: I get the VIP entrance or whatever on the table
Speaker 4: or something, then great, but I try not to do
Speaker 4: that because it's just it's just it's so embarrassing when
Speaker 4: it doesn't work, you know, when when you try to
Speaker 4: flex like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like we need to get a little
Speaker 3: bit back to the to the to the SVU of it,
Speaker 3: even though we have other things we want to talk
Speaker 3: to you about. I wanted to know because I ran
Speaker 3: across this clip of you PBS talking about being asked
Speaker 3: to do accents by casting directors, and like, I was
Speaker 3: just wondering, because you do that in this episode.
Speaker 1: But at the time that.
Speaker 3: You did this episode, it was like what it was
Speaker 3: two thousand, so I don't know, were you still like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm down to do any accent, But do you do
Speaker 3: that today?
Speaker 1: Like what you know, what's your what's your feeling on
Speaker 1: that now?
Speaker 4: It was always it was always the feeling of like,
Speaker 4: you know, you go in and my friends Sukina Jeoffrey
Speaker 4: and I came up well, she came up with it,
Speaker 4: and then I sort of started using it. And another bit,
Speaker 4: which was this term called p tanking, which was like
Speaker 4: basically it's the sound of the Indian accent to the
Speaker 4: non Indian ear. And it basically is like protank, protect, protect, protect, protect,
Speaker 4: protect protect right. So she and we'd always have this
Speaker 4: thing where we go into an audition and then we
Speaker 4: come on and then they We'll be like, are they
Speaker 4: asking to p tank? Yeah? Yeah, they asked me to partank,
Speaker 4: you know. And it was always inevitable that you go
Speaker 4: in and then they ended the cast and director something.
Speaker 4: You'd be like, you know what, maybe maybe just try
Speaker 4: can we just do one take with the accent? And
Speaker 4: you knew that if you did it with the accent,
Speaker 4: they were always going to use the accent. You know,
Speaker 4: that was what it was going to be. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I never had a problem with doing the accent. I mean, look,
Speaker 4: I had to pay the bills, so I did whatever
Speaker 4: I needed to do. But sometimes it felt like, you know,
Speaker 4: I always felt that it was sort of one of
Speaker 4: those things where the accent became sort of in of itself, like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's just funny to have, you know, if it was
Speaker 4: a comedy, like for example, like oh it's just funny
Speaker 4: if they're talking with an Indian if he said with
Speaker 4: Indian accent, you know, or it led a level, it
Speaker 4: gave it a level of authenticity in fact, there was
Speaker 4: one show I did called Ed remember that shows about
Speaker 4: the bowling Alley? Yeah, and I got into a huge
Speaker 4: the director who I liked and really respected and stuff,
Speaker 4: but I got into this huge debate with him about it.
Speaker 4: And it was awkward because everybody on set was sort
Speaker 4: of like okay, and I was like, why am I
Speaker 4: doing an accent? You know? And he was like, well,
Speaker 4: because you know, I was like, this guy is an
Speaker 4: American guy who's coming here to buy this bowling alley.
Speaker 4: He's like a rich American dude. He happens to be Indian,
Speaker 4: but he's Indian American, you know, He's not like why
Speaker 4: would he have an accent? Like is there a reason
Speaker 4: for him? And I couldn't get a straight answer about
Speaker 4: the accent, you know, And it was actually ultimately I
Speaker 4: forget the actor's name, the lead actor on that show
Speaker 4: for ultimately John Cavanaugh, right, So you know, I think
Speaker 4: he was like, look if he doesn't want to do that,
Speaker 4: you know, and ultimately like I didn't do it, because yeah,
Speaker 4: he sort of did a little bit. Yeah, and I
Speaker 4: at least that's how I remember it. Maybe that I'm
Speaker 4: making that up, but anyway, like it was, it was
Speaker 4: one of those things where he became sort of an
Speaker 4: awkward conversation that I was forced to have, you know,
Speaker 4: and that was I think what was sometimes unfortunate about
Speaker 4: those situations where if you pushed back on the accent,
Speaker 4: you were sort of being difficult, you know, and it
Speaker 4: was like, why can't you just do the accent? And
Speaker 4: for so many brown actors, including myself, it was like
Speaker 4: it was like, well, explain to me, why why if
Speaker 4: this guy is fresh off the boat and coming And
Speaker 4: I have no problem because a billion people that have
Speaker 4: that accent, so it's totally fine, But just give me
Speaker 4: a legitimate reason why he would have an accent If
Speaker 4: he's an American, he's born and raised here, why does
Speaker 4: these have an action? You know? And that was and
Speaker 4: and so sometimes that was you know, it forced. That's
Speaker 4: where I sort of resented the idea that it forced
Speaker 4: us to have to police that, you know, ourselves sometimes
Speaker 4: and it put us in a situation which was, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of being the sort of difficult, the problem child,
Speaker 4: you know, in those situations. But you know, yeah, I
Speaker 4: did a lot of characters that had accents, and then
Speaker 4: I started in fact, the Daily Show was one of
Speaker 4: the first major jobs I got. I remember when I
Speaker 4: got the Daily Show and I said to John do
Speaker 4: you want me to do an accent? And and he
Speaker 4: was like no, no, what And I was just like
Speaker 4: it was such a breath of fresh I was like,
Speaker 4: whoa wow, I'm not really you know, because and in
Speaker 4: that case, it actually didn't even make sense because I
Speaker 4: was playing actual reporter from the Middle East in my
Speaker 4: first ever time I did the Daily Show. I was
Speaker 4: playing but they were like do and so logically it
Speaker 4: didn't really make sense. But I was so relieved because
Speaker 4: I was just like, I don't have to do an accent.
Speaker 4: That's amazing, you know, Like I can just be I
Speaker 4: can just talk like an American and and just talk
Speaker 4: like myself.
Speaker 3: And so it's so wild if they made you, like
Speaker 3: what if John Oliver is just faking that accent?
Speaker 4: I know. I hate to tell you. I hate to
Speaker 4: tell you no. I used to that was a joke
Speaker 4: of mine. You know, they'd be like, can you do
Speaker 4: an accent? I'd be like, yeah, I can do Irish,
Speaker 4: I can do Scottish. Which one do you want? I
Speaker 4: can do London?
Speaker 1: Do you have any like? I know, it was like
Speaker 1: twenty four years ago.
Speaker 3: Do you have any like memories of being on this
Speaker 3: college campus and doing this walking down?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do so hard. It was all those stairs.
Speaker 4: It was filmed up filmed up at Columbia. Yeah, it
Speaker 4: was filmed up at Columbia on the campus up there.
Speaker 4: And then I was in, you know, I had had
Speaker 4: my My my memory of it is that I had
Speaker 4: been on Law and Order a couple of years before,
Speaker 4: and I had a really very sort of traumatic experience
Speaker 4: because I for whatever reason that day and this was
Speaker 4: not normal for me. I had this huge I was
Speaker 4: sitting on this I was playing this cab driver. I
Speaker 4: was on the stand and I had all this dialogue
Speaker 4: and I could not get through this dialogue, Like it
Speaker 4: was really embarrassing, Like I was having a really hard
Speaker 4: time with it, to the point where I was like
Speaker 4: having to pace the sides down below the thing because
Speaker 4: and they were and they I could see they were
Speaker 4: getting stressed out because this guest star was and I
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god. And I was a young actor.
Speaker 4: I was just for whatever reason, I hadn't had my
Speaker 4: you know, coffee enough coffee or that morning or whatever.
Speaker 4: I don't know what was going on for me. But
Speaker 4: I could not get through the dialogue without messing it up,
Speaker 4: and so they kept going back, kept going back, and
Speaker 4: so I was really had this kind of PTSD, and
Speaker 4: I thought, I'm never going to get hired again, Like
Speaker 4: Dick Wolf is never going to hire me. Because they
Speaker 4: even were like, hey, you gout, you are right, you know,
Speaker 4: because they hadn't had me on the show before. They
Speaker 4: were like okay, you know, and they were like, maybe
Speaker 4: you know, I take ten and go sit down and relax.
Speaker 4: And they thought I was nervous. And then that makes
Speaker 4: you more nervous, you know, when you when when when
Speaker 4: you already are feeling the pressure of the entire room
Speaker 4: and hundreds of extras and the crew.
Speaker 2: And then the coddling. I feel like then they like
Speaker 2: coddle you a little extra, and then you feel like.
Speaker 4: You feel like all eyes are on you, and so.
Speaker 3: Now paying attention, Yeah, this is the actor's recurring nightmare.
Speaker 1: What you're describing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, then I'm sitting in the witness stand, So
Speaker 4: it's it's also physically kind of all the folks it
Speaker 4: boxed in and the focus on me, and so I
Speaker 4: was having and my count is supposed to be nervous,
Speaker 4: so it played well because I was genuinely nervous, but
Speaker 4: I was having a really hard time. But then so
Speaker 4: when I got this gig for this episode, I was
Speaker 4: so relieved that they were they hired me again because
Speaker 4: I was like, they're never gonna got it.
Speaker 1: You were so prepared.
Speaker 4: I was so prepared on this one. I was like,
Speaker 4: I want them to know that I know my shit,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Like, so I showed up
Speaker 4: like super prepared, and so I just remember doing the
Speaker 4: scene with Murska Hargate and Christopher Maloney and just like
Speaker 4: the whole time like I'm doing the lines, but I'm
Speaker 4: in my head, I'm just like nailing it. I'm nailing
Speaker 4: it good.
Speaker 2: And it's tough because there was a walking talk and
Speaker 2: those are.
Speaker 4: The walking talk and those are hard. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: then you.
Speaker 3: Haven't had to go back into the stand, so you
Speaker 3: must have been really having the memories come back there too.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I was having all that. So that episode actually
Speaker 4: was kind of just reaffirmed to me that like, oh, Okay,
Speaker 4: I know what I'm doing. Yeah, don't you know?
Speaker 3: Well you said you didn't, you said you didn't watch
Speaker 3: the episode, but like you know, you do you get
Speaker 3: like the general plot of it is like this girl
Speaker 3: has been killed by her brother and it's sort of
Speaker 3: like an honor killing, and your role is to sort
Speaker 3: of like explain these cultural like norms. And I mean,
Speaker 3: just from what I read about you online, you grew
Speaker 3: up in a Muslim family, correct, So like was that
Speaker 3: was there anything were you like this is dramatized or
Speaker 3: this is like were you because like, for me as
Speaker 3: a viewer, this was like the first time I'd heard
Speaker 3: of this concept, you know, in two thousand and I
Speaker 3: was a much younger person. I had never heard of
Speaker 3: this concept of like honor killings, you know, and so
Speaker 3: like I was wondering if you as like a Muslim
Speaker 3: actor portraying this kind of like not you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know what. I don't know how to word this
Speaker 3: not the most flattering part of the you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, I.
Speaker 5: Think that I think that that at that time, as
Speaker 5: a young brown actor, there was always a kind of reductiveness,
Speaker 5: you know, whether it was your Indian ness or your
Speaker 5: muslimness or whatever, there was a kind of reductiveness to
Speaker 5: turn it into.
Speaker 4: Like you know TV drama. You know, so Muslims were
Speaker 4: sort of portrayed, as you know, and this was before
Speaker 4: nine to eleven, you know, and you know, as you know,
Speaker 4: Americans discovered Islam after nine to eleven, so you know,
Speaker 4: and so then things became you know, then you had
Speaker 4: shows like twenty four and other shows which were really
Speaker 4: exploiting that kind of Islamophobia that then. So this was
Speaker 4: sort of pre the prevailing Islamophobia that existed after nine
Speaker 4: to eleven where it made it. Then there were things
Speaker 4: where I was incredibly uncomfortable, like after nine to eleven,
Speaker 4: Like I got scripts for movies and stuff where it
Speaker 4: was literally like just Muslims, like they were like the
Speaker 4: beginning first scene of the movie was like a bunch
Speaker 4: of Muslims praying while the towers were falling down behind them,
Speaker 4: and it was this whole thing, and I was just
Speaker 4: like I can't, I can't do this. You know. There
Speaker 4: was a movie actually called that actually did get made.
Speaker 4: It was called Hidalgo and it was with Vigo Mortensen,
Speaker 4: and it was a movie about this desert horse race
Speaker 4: and this American horse rider, this cowboy who goes to
Speaker 4: Arabia and runs in this desert horse race, and the
Speaker 4: American Mustang horse beats all the Arabian horses. And this
Speaker 4: movie was being made in two thousand and two, like
Speaker 4: right after nine to eleven, just as we were about
Speaker 4: to go to war with Iraq and go into Afghanistan.
Speaker 4: And I remember like reading the script and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 4: this whole movie is just basically like a parent like
Speaker 4: basically just the war. It's just like because there was
Speaker 4: literally a line in the movie where I said, in
Speaker 4: the context of this film, Vigo Mortenson's girlfriend says, go
Speaker 4: kick some arab ass cowboy. And this was like right
Speaker 4: on the eve of as we were about to go
Speaker 4: into Afghanistan, and I remember like I was like, I
Speaker 4: can't audition for this movie, Like I can't, I can't
Speaker 4: go into this, Like I'm not going to be in
Speaker 4: a movie that has the line go kick some arab
Speaker 4: ass cowboy, you know. And so you know, so this
Speaker 4: was sort of before all of that, and so it
Speaker 4: was it wasn't uncommon that this is the kind of
Speaker 4: stuff that was portrayed on American television and you know,
Speaker 4: about Muslims and Islam and stuff in the context of
Speaker 4: like not knowing that much about it for most Americans,
Speaker 4: you know, right, but it wasn't at that time for
Speaker 4: Brown actors. At least for me. It didn't ring all
Speaker 4: the bells of like I can't do this, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean? At that time, it was like this
Speaker 4: is what it is. You know.
Speaker 3: I feel like we have to let you go soon,
Speaker 3: but I really we cannot leave let you go without
Speaker 3: talking about evil because I am, yes, I am an
Speaker 3: evil head. My husband and I I don't like horror
Speaker 3: stuff that much. My HU was like, watch this show
Speaker 3: with me, and did it come out during the pandemic.
Speaker 3: I think we started watching it more in the pandemic.
Speaker 4: It came out, It came out prior to the pandemic.
Speaker 4: It came out actually in twenty nineteen was the first season,
Speaker 4: and then and then twenty two and then we took
Speaker 4: a break and it was you know, there was Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, co star Michael Emerson plays a real freak in
Speaker 2: one episode of US.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, well he's been around, It's been around for
Speaker 4: a long time. He's so great, you know, a bad guy.
Speaker 4: He's one of my favorite actors.
Speaker 3: And by the way, he did say he would do
Speaker 3: our podcast. We've been having a hard time de nailing
Speaker 3: him down. So if you see him on a press see
Speaker 3: him press, tell him we're cool, but tell me about
Speaker 3: like the doing Evil and like the final season.
Speaker 1: I'm we're devastated. It's the final season.
Speaker 3: My husband and I he says, you're My husband says
Speaker 3: you're his favorite character.
Speaker 1: On Evil because you really are. For people that don't
Speaker 1: watch Evil, start watching Evil.
Speaker 3: But you are a little bit of like the comic relief,
Speaker 3: Like you know, you're sort of this team of people
Speaker 3: that investigate, you know, religiously paranormal happenings, but you're kind.
Speaker 1: Of like the skeptic.
Speaker 3: That's like, I know, I can explain why this happened
Speaker 3: in like a technological way, like you're.
Speaker 1: The tech guy. Yeah, right, exactly, I'm describing it correctly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's totally right. And I think, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: the the tech guy. I'm sort of like a little
Speaker 4: bit like of a macguy vertype character, like I can
Speaker 4: sort of do everything. You know, it's very unlike me
Speaker 4: in real life. But he's great. I love Ben and
Speaker 4: just talking about you know, the idea of like Ben
Speaker 4: was originally written as a white guy. He wasn't written
Speaker 4: as an Indian guy or a South Asian character at all.
Speaker 4: And when I met the Kings. Funny enough, I was
Speaker 4: doing this is This Way Up when I auditioned for Evil,
Speaker 4: and I actually auditioned for it when I was in
Speaker 4: London doing This Way Up. And so then I came
Speaker 4: to New York, I met the Kings and they just
Speaker 4: liked me, you know, and thank god they did. And
Speaker 4: it's just been like such a great experience. And again,
Speaker 4: he's the kind of character that I never got to play,
Speaker 4: you know, Like we talked about like the fact I
Speaker 4: played a lot of doctors, have played a lot of characters,
Speaker 4: but I've never gotten to play a guy who wears
Speaker 4: work boots and drives a pickup truck and can like
Speaker 4: fix shit, you know what I mean, just like that guy,
Speaker 4: you know, like and so we we brown people often
Speaker 4: get Brown men often get to be de sexualized, you know,
Speaker 4: we get to be like cerebral or whatever, you know,
Speaker 4: whereas Ben is actually you know. And then he's had
Speaker 4: relationships and.
Speaker 1: It's been great.
Speaker 4: You know, I've had like a real character who like
Speaker 4: has a life and is multi dimensional, and so he's
Speaker 4: been great. And also like just to play with the
Speaker 4: Kings and they're such good writers and get to do
Speaker 4: all this kind of horror stuff, which is a genre
Speaker 4: that I had never really done before, you know, and
Speaker 4: to play with monsters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really great when your character, when your character
Speaker 3: gets scared, it's really fun to watch because you're always like,
Speaker 3: I can explain what this is. But then there's some
Speaker 3: episodes where you get really freaked the fuck out and
Speaker 3: it's so.
Speaker 4: Fun to It's kind of great when Ben is like
Speaker 4: comes up against like, I can't explain this now, like
Speaker 4: you know, because he thinks he's always certain. He's so
Speaker 4: in a certainty about like I can explain stuff, and
Speaker 4: then when he can't, it's really kind of great because
Speaker 4: you see the whole thing like, well, what the you know.
Speaker 4: He's just been such a ride to play that and
Speaker 4: also working with you know, like you said, Michael Emerson,
Speaker 4: who's so amazing, and Katcha and my Culture and all
Speaker 4: those you know, it's just been just a dream job
Speaker 4: to get to work with those guys. They're all so good.
Speaker 4: And Christine Lottie.
Speaker 1: And Christine Lottie, Oh, she's so good.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 1: She's an sv girl. She's so good in it.
Speaker 4: And Andrew and Martin.
Speaker 2: It's like, truly, I think I might become an evil
Speaker 2: head you had intrigued.
Speaker 3: It's so good on our Paramount Plus when you log in,
Speaker 3: you know, like my kid's icon is Paw Patrol. Our
Speaker 3: icon the adult is Andrew Martin as the nun and Evil.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, that's how we log into our Paramount Plus.
Speaker 4: Like we love that he is so great. And I
Speaker 4: know Andrew because I did Oklahoma with her in two
Speaker 4: thousand and two on Broadway like years ago. So I
Speaker 4: worked with Andrew Martin back in the day. And then
Speaker 4: to have her come back and Young Evil has been
Speaker 4: such a treat, you know, and we get we get
Speaker 4: such great guest stars. Yeah, well like some amazing people. Yeah,
Speaker 4: come in and out, you know, and uh, it's been great.
Speaker 4: It's I'm sad that it's over, you know, it's it's
Speaker 4: just creatively, it's just been a lot of fun to
Speaker 4: do and such great stories.
Speaker 1: What a career did Yeah? Do you have anything?
Speaker 4: Do you broad still going?
Speaker 2: I'm still going yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: Else you want our listeners to keep an eye out
Speaker 3: for beside the final season of Evil that's coming out
Speaker 3: on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 4: I mean there's nothing like right now, I'm actually getting
Speaker 4: ready to do a play this fall. Uh in l
Speaker 4: A at the The Deaf Playhouse with Rain Wilson. Do
Speaker 4: you are you in l great? So? Uh Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: called Waiting for Goodell.
Speaker 1: Reading for Good And I mean, who hasn't read that?
Speaker 4: Right? Well?
Speaker 1: I haven't.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean like when you when you're a theater major,
Speaker 3: you like have to reader.
Speaker 4: Go go slowgo Vivekramswami. Then you're waiting for good.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you so so much us if
Speaker 3: this was so fun, this is gonna be a great
Speaker 3: palate cleanser for our episode after Yeah, we talk about
Speaker 3: you know, honor killings and you know.
Speaker 4: People, thank you.
Speaker 2: Obsessed with him, I mean for such a sad episode,
Speaker 2: I just feel like, no better guests, no better guest.
Speaker 2: It was a joy to speak to him. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was taken away. Well, he was so interesting in
Speaker 2: so many different ways, and like he just had so
Speaker 2: much to say.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's like.
Speaker 2: The comedian element of him or what, but he just
Speaker 2: we didn't have to drag anything out of him, and
Speaker 2: it's just like interesting, amazing. Not that an other guests
Speaker 2: aren't great, but he is my number one guest at
Speaker 2: this point. Sorry, and of course Lou Diamond Phillips, It's awesome.
Speaker 1: Lou Diamon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was so fun to talk to and uh
Speaker 3: love love smart a variety of topics.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Nice, But well, I'm sorry. So I do have a
Speaker 2: soul Cycle thing. So there's a comedian I was chatting
Speaker 2: with him. He likes soul Cycle as well, but he
Speaker 2: has a big issue with them because they don't He
Speaker 2: took off his shirt once and he was scolded and
Speaker 2: they said, sorry, shirts on nipples covered, and you know,
Speaker 2: the mesh didn't field good. Like we kept kind of
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe you could take a shirt and
Speaker 2: tie it in, do a belly shirt. Like we were
Speaker 2: just brainstorming what to do because I told him, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I cycle in a bra.
Speaker 1: Like if I had to wear a shirt, I would
Speaker 1: be miserable.
Speaker 2: It is so hot in there. I do not want
Speaker 2: to wear a shirt. So I understand a man not
Speaker 2: wanting to wear a shirt. So I keep sending him
Speaker 2: like different nipple covers and like different kind of like
Speaker 2: obviously super homoerotic, like little garter nipple cover sports bras
Speaker 2: that are gender neutral, and I'm just trying to find
Speaker 2: him a way to cover nipples and still be able
Speaker 2: to cycle. But I also maybe with the so I
Speaker 2: just I know that I wouldn't want to wear a shirt.
Speaker 3: Yes, no, me neither. I mean I wear like wicking
Speaker 3: tank tops that are you know whatever. But but it's
Speaker 3: interesting because it's like, I guess, if they say a
Speaker 3: man can take a shirt off, then can a woman
Speaker 3: take their shirt off?
Speaker 1: Because that's only fair to me for sure.
Speaker 2: But your titties bounce, Like if you are a woman
Speaker 2: who I need to be titties out at soul cycle,
Speaker 2: you are a full maniac.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are a maniac.
Speaker 2: There's so much up and down, like I just can't
Speaker 2: even imagine. But if anyone has any you know, tiny
Speaker 2: little nipple cover things to do? Yeah, oh wait, did
Speaker 2: I get tell you? I got tickets to Broadway? Oh Mary.
Speaker 3: So I had breakfast with my friend yesterday and she
Speaker 3: was like, well, if you could extend your trip, I'm
Speaker 3: going tomorrow and I think my husband's probably gonna bail
Speaker 3: on me for work, and.
Speaker 2: I'm well, it's off right here. Well it's gonna be
Speaker 2: on Broadway.
Speaker 3: Yes, tickets for the last of the current run. And
Speaker 3: then I tried, but it.
Speaker 2: Was wild because I was sitting with a few friends
Speaker 2: and I was like, fuck, I'm not gonna be able
Speaker 2: to see it off Broadway. I bet it'll be on Broadway.
Speaker 2: I just have to be patient. Then next morning I
Speaker 2: woke up tickets were available.
Speaker 1: You are incredible. I want to go so badly.
Speaker 3: I want to go, But also my sister's fucking going,
Speaker 3: like everyone's going, I'm dying. Anyway, everybody goes see Cola Scola.
Speaker 1: In O Mary. We're not being paid to say that.
Speaker 2: No, but it's a twelve week It's a twelve week
Speaker 2: run starting towards the end of June. I believe, so
Speaker 2: your August trip could coincide with certain Broadway days.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good call. I didn't know it was
Speaker 3: so long. It's a twelve week run. I thought it
Speaker 3: went until late July. So I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna make Maybe it's eight week, but I really
Speaker 3: think it's a twelve week round. No, okay, I'm googling
Speaker 3: it right after we get off here. Okay, all right,
Speaker 3: post morning. For this episode, we did a fucking episode
Speaker 3: called girl Dishonored and then an episode called I Mean
Speaker 3: Tough subject matter In both episodes.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, is that what we've been doing just talking
Speaker 2: about nipple covers and soul cycle to please not talk
Speaker 2: about honor killings and the sadness that brings us.
Speaker 1: So that we don't have to like do a roundup
Speaker 1: of what we talked about today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the dead displayed out mother, No one could have
Speaker 2: helped her. I I mean, but at that point, do
Speaker 2: you even want to live? No, no offense should want
Speaker 2: to live. You'll get through it, but.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's so tough. I mean, what my mars
Speaker 2: are made out of. And that's the whole thing of
Speaker 2: like you know, maso hierarchy of needs. You can obviously
Speaker 2: be upset and frustrated and sad about your life where
Speaker 2: like things not working out or working out, but like overall,
Speaker 2: just like the gratefulness I feel to be alive here
Speaker 2: today in New York, I don't know, it's just like
Speaker 2: horrible to think, like one one little turn in the
Speaker 2: cosmos and you're fucking getting murdered by your family because
Speaker 2: you want to fuck.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's or or you're you've been a tact
Speaker 3: I mean, like it's not even about your wants all
Speaker 3: the time. It's just like you represent the honor of
Speaker 3: your family, whether you like it or not, and whatever
Speaker 3: happens to you, or choices you make or not, or
Speaker 3: choices you don't make, it all reflects just back on
Speaker 3: your family. You're just a mirror for your family. And
Speaker 3: that's it. Like you don't really exist as your own
Speaker 3: person in a lot of ways, at least in the
Speaker 3: I think in the types of families that would you know,
Speaker 3: condone an honor killing. You know, I'm obviously not saying that,
Speaker 3: like in a full culture it's like that, but you know,
Speaker 3: like these people in the real case were not at
Speaker 3: all remorseful. They think what they did was perfectly fine.
Speaker 3: And just the hypocrisy. You married out of your religion, sir,
Speaker 3: your wife was a Catholic, but yet and like and
Speaker 3: yet you know your daughter cannot have any kind of
Speaker 3: grace ugh.
Speaker 2: And the Catholic I mean, it's it's it's maniacs hiding
Speaker 2: behind some sort of tradition, religion or not. I put it,
Speaker 2: it's not like that dad in the show was a killer.
Speaker 2: This way was a fucking cold blooded killer in the
Speaker 2: real case, like they all are you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, these are killers.
Speaker 3: And the dad just in the episode just got away
Speaker 3: off he goes fucked. Anyway, let's make this a quick one.
Speaker 3: I can't to do good.
Speaker 2: Cabot killed it in the courtroom, and so did the professor.
Speaker 2: So that was like some cool moments.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And I do feel like, as I said,
Speaker 3: like the first time I ever heard about this kind
Speaker 3: of thing was on this show. Like, so I do
Speaker 3: think this show like is what like always is trying
Speaker 3: to bring.
Speaker 1: They don't always hit them all.
Speaker 2: I've been holding the microphone while looking at my microphone
Speaker 2: stand for this whole time. I cannot believe I just
Speaker 2: didn't put it in this hole. But next I cannot
Speaker 2: believe it. It does look like I'm holding an oscar?
Speaker 2: Did you hear that? Kate Winslet keeps the oscar in
Speaker 2: her bathroom so people can do acceptance speech the bathroom
Speaker 2: in the mirror that feeling self conscious.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: And she says she can tell who does it because
Speaker 2: they come out with their face a little flushed or
Speaker 2: like it takes extra long to get out after they flush.
Speaker 2: But I think that's cool because who wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: hold an oscar into.
Speaker 1: A little speech? I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it, And I'm sure she has a cleaning
Speaker 2: person that comes probably twice a week at least.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's wealthy.
Speaker 3: I'm sure those oscars are getting wiped down on the
Speaker 3: regular for sure. Yeah, no fingerprints on those babies. But yeah,
Speaker 3: all I was gonna say was like this show like
Speaker 3: told me what even the concept of honor killing was Like.
Speaker 3: I feel like this show has introduced a lot of
Speaker 3: like tough subject matter that's very varied, and even though
Speaker 3: they don't always hit the mark exactly and some stuff
Speaker 3: doesn't hold up, I do like appreciate that they're always
Speaker 3: trying to incorporate these kind of things treatment of women
Speaker 3: all over the world, you know, into the show.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 3: What was Ster Peg Do was our weekly segment where
Speaker 3: we direct you towards an organization, a book, a blog
Speaker 3: and articles something to give you more info about what.
Speaker 1: We talked about today.
Speaker 3: And for this week, our episode obviously focuses on a
Speaker 3: victim who is originally from Palestine, and we've been following
Speaker 3: the conflict in Palestine for the last few months and
Speaker 3: we've been really really impressed by all the work that's
Speaker 3: been done by World Central Kitchen, founded by chef Jose
Speaker 3: Andres in twenty ten. World Central Kitchen's mission is to
Speaker 3: provide fresh meals in response to humanitarian, climate and community crises.
Speaker 3: Andre says, quote, when people are hungry, send in cooks,
Speaker 3: not tomorrow today, end of quote. At the time of
Speaker 3: this recording, they have resumed their aid in Gaza, so
Speaker 3: we are happy to point you guys to them if
Speaker 3: you can donate. Throughout the history of the organization, they
Speaker 3: have prepared over three hundred and fifty million meals worldwide.
Speaker 3: I believe we talked to Jamie gray Hyder about them
Speaker 3: as well. I think she may have volunteered with them
Speaker 3: a little bit. But to donate or volunteer, head over
Speaker 3: to w c K org and that will be posted
Speaker 3: in our stories the day the episode comes out, as
Speaker 3: well as Saved Forever in our WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be doing the episode Resilience from
Speaker 2: season four, episode ten.
Speaker 1: We'll see you then. We are so grateful for all
Speaker 1: of you for listening and until next time. Bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 3: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 3: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 3: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 3: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Speaker 3: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to.
Speaker 2: Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews
Speaker 2: for our artwork.
Speaker 3: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 3: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 1: Dun dun