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Speaker 2: It did seem like there was a deal to avoid
Speaker 2: a shutdown. I remember coming on the air that day
Speaker 2: to tell you it was the sixteenth of August this month,
Speaker 2: not that long ago, and Chuck Schumer went on to
Speaker 2: MSNBC to make the announcement.
Speaker 3: Speaker McCarthy and I met a few weeks back and
Speaker 3: we agreed we should do what's called a CR in
Speaker 3: other words, a congressional resolution where you just extend the
Speaker 3: existing funding for a few months so we could work
Speaker 3: this out. And I thought that was a good sign.
Speaker 3: But I would say this, our Republican colleagues in the
Speaker 3: House need to follow the lead of their Republican colleagues
Speaker 3: in the Senate and work in a bipartisan Wait.
Speaker 2: Ah, so maybe that's what this is about, right, A
Speaker 2: little reminder for the Freedom Caucus, try to get this
Speaker 2: in the news. Start putting on the pressure. Even though
Speaker 2: there is a deal in principle, is the White House
Speaker 2: doing Kevin McCarthy's work for him. Let's reassemble the panel
Speaker 2: with Genie Shanzo and Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributors. What
Speaker 2: do you think about that, Genie?
Speaker 4: You know, Kevin McCarthy, after that piece that you just
Speaker 4: played from Chuck Schumer, he had a conference call with
Speaker 4: his members and he talked about the idea and sort
Speaker 4: of soft rolled the idea that there would be a
Speaker 4: short term stop gap funding bill that they could pass.
Speaker 4: He floats that, and of course they went into some
Speaker 4: kind of uproar, and so, you know, I don't think
Speaker 4: it's so mysterious what the White House is doing. They
Speaker 4: are doing their politics. They are making Kevin McCarthy's life
Speaker 4: pretty hard because for Kevin McCarthy to do this, he
Speaker 4: is going to have to help ensure that those conservative
Speaker 4: members come along, or at the very least that they
Speaker 4: don't try to call for his ouster with one of them,
Speaker 4: which one of them could do, because let's not forget
Speaker 4: one of the agreements that he made to become Speaker
Speaker 4: was they would return to regular order. Of course, that
Speaker 4: hasn't worked out, and so they do need to do
Speaker 4: a cr But I think the White House here is
Speaker 4: sort of sticking the finger in Kevin McCarthy's eye and saying,
Speaker 4: you've got to do this work with your members, because
Speaker 4: it is no secret that Bob Good and other people,
Speaker 4: Chip Roy and others were very upset by Kevin mc
Speaker 4: McCarthy even talking about this idea, and that was about
Speaker 4: a week ago or so on a conference call.
Speaker 2: So I guess, does Kevin McCarthy need them? Rick? Is
Speaker 2: my question? Does he need the Freedom Caucus to make
Speaker 2: this work or can he actually kind of deal with
Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer and move on.
Speaker 5: Look, I think he'd like to have his caucus one
Speaker 5: behind him. You know, that's always been the motivation. You know,
Speaker 5: most speakers, they don't like taking boats where they got
Speaker 5: a Democratic vote case to pass anything. But he's done
Speaker 5: it before, so you know it's he's not immune to it.
Speaker 5: He's been very clear that he's going to do a
Speaker 5: CR and even the Freedom Conckers just a few days
Speaker 5: ago said that, you know, any CR that gets passed
Speaker 5: should include a bunch of border security stuff we want.
Speaker 5: So they're already warming up to the idea that there's
Speaker 5: going to be a CR. And part of the problem
Speaker 5: he has a speaker is that the reason there's a
Speaker 5: CR is because his own committee chair haven't passed their
Speaker 5: appropriations bills and it's done in the Senate. So the
Speaker 5: onus really is on Kevin McCarthy, and I don't think
Speaker 5: he really cares what the White House says or doesn't
Speaker 5: say about it, because he knows that if he needs
Speaker 5: Democratic votes for a continuing resolution. By the way, Chuck Schumer,
Speaker 5: continuing resolution not a congressional resolution, those are two different
Speaker 5: to them. Yeah, he can get them. I mean, look,
Speaker 5: we all know what Schumer means when he speaks. He
Speaker 5: just doesn't always say what he means.
Speaker 2: Just little schoolhouse rock on the CR here, Genie, I
Speaker 2: don't know when you consider all of this happen and
Speaker 2: at the same time as trying to figure out not
Speaker 2: only the trajectory for government spending but interest rates continuing
Speaker 2: to rise, I'm sure they'll be, you know, all kinds
Speaker 2: of fun politics that come with the return of lawmakers
Speaker 2: here in Washington. Is this something that the White House
Speaker 2: can count on and it's just having fun with now
Speaker 2: the idea of a stopgap?
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know if they're having fun with it,
Speaker 4: But I am not one of these people who feels
Speaker 4: particularly optimistic that this is going to be easy sailing
Speaker 4: when they get back in September. I mean, let's not
Speaker 4: forget you couple all of this with emergency relief funding
Speaker 4: for Ukraine at a very serious juncture. And these are
Speaker 4: things that there is very little agreement on the Republican
Speaker 4: side of the House about and with the Republicans in
Speaker 4: the Senate, and so that is going to be a
Speaker 4: tremendous firestorm. I don't know if the White House is
Speaker 4: having fun with it, but what I do know is
Speaker 4: this is going to make Kevin McCarthy more inclined. How
Speaker 4: is he going to bring along those MAGA members? And
Speaker 4: he does need them, not for their votes on this,
Speaker 4: but he needs them because he doesn't want them calling
Speaker 4: for his ouster, which it takes just one of them
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 1: What's he going to do.
Speaker 4: He's going to turn his attention on Hunter Biden. This
Speaker 4: is what he has done all along, try to divert
Speaker 4: attention and try to get their support by talking about
Speaker 4: issues that benefit the American public very little. And that
Speaker 4: is what he's going to do to keep his job
Speaker 4: and to try to move this forward. So of course
Speaker 4: we will all be watching that distraction while we try
Speaker 4: to hope that there's a cr to keep the government
Speaker 4: funded and address important things like emergency relief Ukraine and
Speaker 4: so many of the other things on all of our plates.
Speaker 4: And for Republicans in the magaside to say that a
Speaker 4: government shutdown, which they just said the other day, it's
Speaker 4: not a big deal. You know, eighty percent of the
Speaker 4: government stays open. Tell that to the public sector employees
Speaker 4: who are severely impacted by a government shut Ye, there
Speaker 4: are big, big impacts about this. Not to mention the
Speaker 4: fact we already saw some of the credit agencies or
Speaker 4: at least one say that if the United States doesn't
Speaker 4: get its economic house in order by doing things like
Speaker 4: passing budgets on a regular basis, something we really should
Speaker 4: do fairly easily, we will downgrade it. And so that
Speaker 4: is an impact for all of us. So I don't
Speaker 4: take this at all lately that that is going to
Speaker 4: go smoothly or that it's not going to impact any
Speaker 4: of us, and we can all just sort of turn
Speaker 4: our heads.
Speaker 2: So you're both fired up.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know.
Speaker 2: It was around this time yesterday, Rick Davis, we were
Speaker 2: talking about Mitch McConnell freezing up again in public, which
Speaker 2: was a difficult moment, and it reminds us of the
Speaker 2: fact that steve'scalise also might not be available for a
Speaker 2: lot of this. I wonder what the impact is of
Speaker 2: having potentially these two players not in the mix with
Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy when this is being debated in September. What's
Speaker 2: your thought, you.
Speaker 5: Know, I think that it's it's less important on the
Speaker 5: Senate side with Mitch McConnell because they've kind of they've
Speaker 5: done their part right. Their budget is done, their appropriations
Speaker 5: are done. The Democrats in the Senate will lead any
Speaker 5: continuing resolution discussion, and so I think, you know, the
Speaker 5: Republican caucus kind of manages itself in the Senate. I
Speaker 5: think that the House is a much different animal, and
Speaker 5: it's unruly by design.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's not just.
Speaker 5: Unruly with Republicans, it's been unruly with Democrats, and people
Speaker 5: like Steve Scalice are really critical to that because you know,
Speaker 5: they are the ones that really manage the different constituencies,
Speaker 5: the five families as it is, in the Republican Party,
Speaker 5: to get in line and support the speaker on these issues.
Speaker 5: And the Speaker only has his ability to negotiate with
Speaker 5: the Senate as long as he thinks he can rely
Speaker 5: on at least the vast majority of his caucus. So
Speaker 5: everything I've read, I don't know anything other than that
Speaker 5: that Scalice has been doing great with his treatment and
Speaker 5: we'll be able to function, you know, in his current
Speaker 5: role in the House. But look, I mean there's a
Speaker 5: much broader concern that the public is talking a lot
Speaker 5: more about than we are, nett is the aging political
Speaker 5: leadership of our country and what impact that has on
Speaker 5: our ability to function.
Speaker 2: This might be an odd question, Genie, but does this
Speaker 2: situation that we're talking about that Rick reflects very well
Speaker 2: there on Capitol Hill, Mitch Mcconnald Diane Feinstein, even John
Speaker 2: Fetterman to a lesser degree as he's a young man.
Speaker 2: But does this take pressure off Joe Biden in this
Speaker 2: whole conversation about cognitive ability and age?
Speaker 4: You know, unfortunately for Joe Biden. I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think it makes worse, It makes it worse rather,
Speaker 4: And I think it's such an important question because you know,
Speaker 4: this AP n RC poll that came out the other
Speaker 4: day was stunning. You've got over sixty percent of Democrats,
Speaker 4: and I believe it was around seventy percent of Americans
Speaker 4: seventy seven percent of Americans saying Joe Biden is too
Speaker 4: old to serve again and Democrats sixty six percent. So
Speaker 4: what you're talking about is a political party that is
Speaker 4: putting on the ballot a candidate for reelection that his
Speaker 4: own party does not think can serve. And Mitch McConnell's
Speaker 4: challenges that he's faced physically, which are so difficult to
Speaker 4: watch Diane Feinstein, they just underscore the geriatric concerns that
Speaker 4: voters have. So I think it puts more pressure on
Speaker 4: Joe Biden, not less. So I think it's not only
Speaker 4: an issue Biden's going to miss McConnell because he's a
Speaker 4: friend and the help he offers in you know, sort
Speaker 4: of pulling the Republicans to more of the center or
Speaker 4: at least responsibility in Congress, as it pertains to so
Speaker 4: many issues at this point. But the fact that it's
Speaker 4: going to underscore what I think is now even more
Speaker 4: important to his reelection than the economy and inflation, I
Speaker 4: can't believe I'm saying it is the real challenge around
Speaker 4: his age, which many voters on the Democratic side think
Speaker 4: makes it makes him rather unable to serve. It's a huge,
Speaker 4: huge concern.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: It's section three of the fourteenth Amendment if you have
Speaker 2: your pocket Constitution handy that bars people from holding office
Speaker 2: if they first took an oath to support the Constitution
Speaker 2: and then engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same,
Speaker 2: given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof Section three,
Speaker 2: fourteenth Amendment. Hearing about it a lot lately, and we
Speaker 2: talked about it on this program right around this time
Speaker 2: yesterday with Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson, the former governor
Speaker 2: of Arkansas, has floated this as basically grounds for Donald
Speaker 2: Trump to be excluded or disqualified somehow from state ballots
Speaker 2: in a presidential election. Here's what he said when I
Speaker 2: asked him, if you plan to sue on the fourteenth Amendment.
Speaker 2: Will you sue invoking the fourteenth Amendment to get him
Speaker 2: out of this race?
Speaker 6: No, I don't expect that to happen. There will be
Speaker 6: plenty of others that will raise that issue. So I
Speaker 6: don't need to, and I would not want to. But
Speaker 6: let me describe it this way. It's a constitutional requirement
Speaker 6: for eligibility. For example, right now, you have to be
Speaker 6: thirty five to run for president of the United States.
Speaker 6: A secretary of State will not put somebody on the
Speaker 6: ballot who's thirty four or thirty three. They make that
Speaker 6: determined nation. This is a constitutional requirement. They have to
Speaker 6: review as well and make a determination whether they violate
Speaker 6: the fourteenth Amendment.
Speaker 2: He's obviously not going to be filing suit, but wondering
Speaker 2: if a secretary of state might take that action. And
Speaker 2: in New Hampshire they are taking a look at this.
Speaker 2: There's been enough I guess, requests for attention here that,
Speaker 2: in fact, the Secretary of State is talking to the
Speaker 2: Attorney general about this. Now, this after a long shot
Speaker 2: presidential candidate, as I read of the New York Times,
Speaker 2: file a lawsuit in state court seeking an injunction to
Speaker 2: keep the president former president off the ballot, and it's
Speaker 2: not just in New Hampshire. The group Free Speech for
Speaker 2: the People sent letters to Secretaries of States in New
Speaker 2: Hampshire as well as Florida, New Mexico, Ohio, and Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: urging them all to do the same. Let's reassemble our
Speaker 2: panel for more on this. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno,
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Is this crazy talk, Rick, or is
Speaker 2: there something to it?
Speaker 5: Look? I think no matter what, we're going to see
Speaker 5: this probably in the Supreme Court before the end of
Speaker 5: this election, because as Asa Hutchison said, uh, he may
Speaker 5: not do it, but he would expect others to. And
Speaker 5: and so it's going to come out, you know, in
Speaker 5: a state ruling. Uh, someone will challenge it. And then
Speaker 5: and then the states are going to say, hey, this
Speaker 5: has got you know, all get appealed up to the
Speaker 5: Supreme Court. So here we go again, right, one more
Speaker 5: legal issue. Uh that will impact uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's candidacy for president. And look, I mean this
Speaker 5: was a provision put in place to keep Confederates from
Speaker 5: getting elected after the Civil War, and you know, quote
Speaker 5: you know, softly taking back the country. You know, I
Speaker 5: think we have to look at this in the context
Speaker 5: of what president are we setting.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: You know, there are obviously a lot of people who
Speaker 5: will do anything they possibly can to stop Donald Trump
Speaker 5: from being re elected president, and this is just another
Speaker 5: tool that they'll use.
Speaker 2: Another tool, Genie that could make a lot of people angry.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's a Secretary of State out there,
Speaker 2: whether it's New Hampshire or maybe a guy named Raffensberger
Speaker 2: in Georgia that would consider this?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Sure, and thank you, Joe. I was having Trump withdrawal syndrome.
Speaker 4: So the fact that you allowed us to say his
Speaker 4: name in the HOTE, I won't let you down, thank you.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The reality is is there is going to be a
Speaker 4: lawsuit one or more filed on these grounds, and it
Speaker 4: is not crazy talk. Let's just be clear. You have
Speaker 4: two conservative Federalist Society legal scholars. They have a peace
Speaker 4: coming out in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review next
Speaker 4: year that we have seen already that they have said
Speaker 4: President Trump, and they again are conservatives, they are originalists.
Speaker 4: They have said a President Trump being elected would not
Speaker 4: be able to serve under the Fourteenth Amendment Clause three
Speaker 4: unless two thirds of each House of Congress for gave
Speaker 4: him for the insurrection essentially or allowed him a pass.
Speaker 4: And their argument is based on an original reading of
Speaker 4: that clause and what they describe as abundant evidence that
Speaker 4: Donald Trump engaged in insurrection, and can I underscore those
Speaker 4: are conservative legal scholars in the federalist society, So there
Speaker 4: is an argument to be made. I don't know if
Speaker 4: it'll have any legs in the court, certainly, I don't
Speaker 4: know about the Supreme Court, but it is a question
Speaker 4: that is going to come up and be challenging, and
Speaker 4: I'll say interesting to hear what people like Clarence Thomas
Speaker 4: and Neil Gorsich and Aldo would have to say, because
Speaker 4: they purport themselves to be originalists as well. So you
Speaker 4: may find an interesting juxtaposition where you have people on
Speaker 4: Trump's side leaning towards liberals who tend to read the
Speaker 4: Constitution in a very different way and take into account
Speaker 4: those things Rick was just talking about, Like the president,
Speaker 4: it would set versus the intention of the words when
Speaker 4: they were written and the definition, and so it's going
Speaker 4: to be fascinating. I don't know if it'll stop him
Speaker 4: from serving, but we will see lawsuits come.
Speaker 2: Forward well if this goes to the Supreme Court, we're
Speaker 2: planning back this episode. I'll tell you that, Rick. I
Speaker 2: know you're talking precedent, but I know that we're also
Speaker 2: dealing with a very divisive voter base here and a
Speaker 2: lot of angry people right now. The president himself, the
Speaker 2: former president, forgive me said it on that interview with
Speaker 2: Tucker Crassley, started talking about civil war, about people taking
Speaker 2: up arms after what we saw in January sixth. Do
Speaker 2: you see this potentially if they go down this route
Speaker 2: as a catalyst for violence, imagining if this did get
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, just for the record, Brad Rasenberger has already
Speaker 5: opined on this, and his view is the voters ought
Speaker 5: to decide these things and the last thing he wants
Speaker 5: to do is encourage the State of Georgia to file
Speaker 5: suit to try and remove anybody from a ballot. So
Speaker 5: there are a lot of people out there who worry
Speaker 5: about the long term implications of no election ever going uncontested,
Speaker 5: uh in the courts, and and so I think that's
Speaker 5: a fair assessment.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 5: You know, look, I mean, we we live in a
Speaker 5: dangerous time. Political violence is up. You've got you know,
Speaker 5: candidates like Donald Trump. He's not the only one who
Speaker 5: go out there and preach you know, various levels of
Speaker 5: of of uh, you know, sort of violent reactions to
Speaker 5: his own legal problems, the you know, weaponization of government
Speaker 5: and all those things, and and so, yeah, I worry
Speaker 5: about another you know, January sixth Uh, when you have
Speaker 5: people like Donald Trump who try and whitewash it by saying, oh,
Speaker 5: it's just a bunch of you know, friendly uh, you know,
Speaker 5: tourists going to the capital. I mean Tucker Carlson, I mean,
Speaker 5: shame on him. You know, he obviously doesn't know how
Speaker 5: to watch a television because you know, you can't see
Speaker 5: the violence that was broadcast live and think that this
Speaker 5: was anything other than insurrection.
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the
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Speaker 2: It's just they open a couple of them right here
Speaker 2: for this conversation. If you feel like a beer here,
Speaker 2: pull up a chair with the panel. Rick Davis and
Speaker 2: Jeanie Shanzino are with us here. Because beer has been
Speaker 2: talked about quite a bit over the past couple of
Speaker 2: days here in Washington. It came up at the White
Speaker 2: House briefing, and it came up again last night on
Speaker 2: Newsmax with Ted Cruz.
Speaker 7: Have viewed they're trying to go after and regulate ceiling fans.
Speaker 7: I gotta tell you, it's hot in Texas. We don't
Speaker 7: want to get rid of our ceiling fans. And now
Speaker 7: these idiots have come out and said, drink two beers
Speaker 7: a week. That's theirline. Well, I got to tell you
Speaker 7: if they want us to drink two beers a week, frankly,
Speaker 7: they can kiss my ass, all right.
Speaker 2: So, and then he actually took a drink of a
Speaker 2: beer on Cable News last night. This is from I
Speaker 2: think the gas stove and ceiling fan file, if not
Speaker 2: the washing machine file. It came up at the White
Speaker 2: House earlier this week with the Fox reporter who referred
Speaker 2: to a conversation in the Daily Mail of all places,
Speaker 2: with George Koob, director of the National Institute on Alcohol
Speaker 2: Abuse and Alcoholism, preparing I guess a suggestion that for
Speaker 2: our health, not a mandate, but a suggestion that we
Speaker 2: limit our intake Genie Shanzano to two beers a week?
Speaker 2: Is this going to become a draconian rule? As Ted
Speaker 2: Cruz is suggesting.
Speaker 4: So many things by this segment? Joe, thank you. I
Speaker 4: didn't know, for instance, that Canada recommends only one for
Speaker 4: women and two for men, right, That was new to me. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And I think it's very very strange that anybody would
Speaker 4: expect you would ask this doctor who studies alcoholism for
Speaker 4: his life if he's going to recommend more alcohol. Of
Speaker 4: course they're not going to recommend it. But listen, when
Speaker 4: do people really listen to the government's recommendation.
Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. Hey, Rick, do you want to
Speaker 2: meet for a beer later?
Speaker 5: There's Joe.
Speaker 2: I think he's a martini guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast.
Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 2: We're going to begin with actually this remarkable piece from
Speaker 2: Josh Green. If you haven't seen that, get to your
Speaker 2: terminal or Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Blue cities in red states become
Speaker 2: latest targets for Republicans. The headline that says it all
Speaker 2: and Josh, it's great to have you back with us here.
Speaker 2: You focus on Nashville and the state of Tennessee for
Speaker 2: a lot of this piece, but it's bigger than that.
Speaker 2: As you report and write, similar dynamics and other states
Speaker 2: have also led to a flurry of laws and executive
Speaker 2: actions preempting local ordinances. You point to Greg Abbott in Texas,
Speaker 2: Ron de Santis in Florida. Can we call this a
Speaker 2: national trend?
Speaker 8: Yeah? I think it's absolutely a national trend. It's been
Speaker 8: one for a while, but it's one that's particularly sped
Speaker 8: up over the last few years. And now if you
Speaker 8: follow the news, you know, you see these increasingly routine
Speaker 8: stories about clashes in particularly red state governments between state
Speaker 8: legislators who are Republicans and of urban blue city legislators
Speaker 8: who are Democrat. And this has really become kind of
Speaker 8: a new frontier in American politics of this battle between states,
Speaker 8: red states and blue cities.
Speaker 2: People think about red and blue America as being different states,
Speaker 2: and you look at the map with that big red
Speaker 2: blob in the middle and the blue stripes along. What
Speaker 2: we're talking about red and blue division within states, and
Speaker 2: it strikes me that capitals, you know, of course have
Speaker 2: the political power, but that doesn't seem to matter if
Speaker 2: it's a Republican legislature.
Speaker 8: And yeah, I mean, like we all we all got
Speaker 8: to know that because of the you know, the famous
Speaker 8: presidential electoral maps. But you know, one of the trends
Speaker 8: in political demographics has just become clearer and clearer with
Speaker 8: every passing years is that these red blue divisions really
Speaker 8: happen at every level in the country and the state,
Speaker 8: and even within cities. You know, urban areas tend to
Speaker 8: be much bluer, and ext urban and rural areas tend
Speaker 8: to be much redder. And so a lot of the
Speaker 8: friction that you have between you know, red states and
Speaker 8: blue states and a presidential primary or a you know,
Speaker 8: in Congress, those same kind of battles are playing out
Speaker 8: within states. And partly because our national politics has become
Speaker 8: so broken down and gridlocked and neither party can really
Speaker 8: get big legislation through, both parties have increasingly kind of
Speaker 8: turned their focus to states, and it's an area where,
Speaker 8: particularly in the South, where there are really strong Republican
Speaker 8: legislative majorities, but still you know, urban capital cities in
Speaker 8: their midst This is where the real classes have come
Speaker 8: in politics, whether it's over gun violence, or race, or
Speaker 8: COVID mask mandates or these things, just about anything.
Speaker 2: It spawned national stars here politically, when you talk about
Speaker 2: Greg Abbott or Ron de Santis, I'm sure I could
Speaker 2: name a few others here. It's been the foundation of
Speaker 2: a presidential campaign for DeSantis, you.
Speaker 8: Know, it has. And I think it's a reflection of
Speaker 8: another trend, and that is the nationalization of our politics.
Speaker 8: You know, the old famous Tip O'Neil phrase that all
Speaker 8: politics is local said that I think in the early
Speaker 8: nineteen eighties. Well, today all politics is national, and that
Speaker 8: includes city and state politics. And as you know, local
Speaker 8: American newspapers die as local TV station does, less hard
Speaker 8: news reporting. People are getting their news sources from national
Speaker 8: partisan outlets, which I think has radicalized people on both sides,
Speaker 8: and so you don't have the kind of practical consensus
Speaker 8: making politics between you know, moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans
Speaker 8: that you historically had in states like Tennessee and particularly
Speaker 8: in Nashville that that's becoming rarer and rarer these days,
Speaker 8: and it's being replaced by the same kind of contention
Speaker 8: and fighting that we have here in Washington.
Speaker 2: The idea of all politics being national just can't be
Speaker 2: good on a lot of different levels. But there is
Speaker 2: a local fallout. As you point out, I'm struck by
Speaker 2: the time that you spent in Nashville City Hall and
Speaker 2: the time that you spent with Mayor Cooper, who's decided
Speaker 2: because of all of this not to run for reelection.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I you know, Nashville is one of
Speaker 8: the most interesting cases because Tennessee has a long history
Speaker 8: of this kind of bipartisan consensus and they're famous, or
Speaker 8: they have been famous over the last half decade for
Speaker 8: kind of minting these national figures who are kind of moderate,
Speaker 8: consensus minded Republicans, people like Howard Baker and Lamar Alexander.
Speaker 8: And yet today they're in the news because the Republican
Speaker 8: legislature has expelled black Democratic lawmakers for processing gun violence.
Speaker 8: And I sort of picked this as the location of
Speaker 8: the piece because there seemed to be more friction here
Speaker 8: than in almost any other city. And I sat down
Speaker 8: with John Cooper the mayor who has led a very
Speaker 8: successful term in terms of economics, in terms of growing Nashville.
Speaker 8: The economy is booming. It's more than recovered from COVID,
Speaker 8: which a lot of a lot of urban centers have not.
Speaker 8: And yet there's constant fighting between Republicans who want to
Speaker 8: impose their values on Nashville and Nashville Democrat and citizens
Speaker 8: who want to govern themselves the way cities have traditionally
Speaker 8: been able to do. What's really new about this trend
Speaker 8: is that both parties at the state level tended to
Speaker 8: defer governance to cities themselves, and now we're seeing that
Speaker 8: go away as these political battles become nationalized and as
Speaker 8: Republicans and Democrats lose the outlet of Congress as a
Speaker 8: real viable way to legislate the issues that they care about.
Speaker 2: You know, people talk about how to solve division in
Speaker 2: this country, and we talk about gerry mandering and a
Speaker 2: couple of other very significant elements. But when you drill
Speaker 2: down on a local level like this and you start
Speaker 2: looking inside states, it's just much more granular, isn't it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it really is. And what's happening is the old
Speaker 8: niceties and political norms that kind of used to keep
Speaker 8: the machine running have gone away and broken down. And
Speaker 8: you see that distinctly in Nashville and even in Mayor
Speaker 8: Cooper's own family. I also met with his brother, Jim Cooper,
Speaker 8: who I've known for years and years, is a longtime
Speaker 8: Democratic congressman, a centrist blue dog Democrat who had represented
Speaker 8: Nashville on an ausince nineteen eighty two, and he was
Speaker 8: essentially forced into retirement by Tennessee Republicans this year because
Speaker 8: they took his Democratic district and they chopped it up
Speaker 8: and spread it out among three conservative Republican districts, so
Speaker 8: essentially undermining democratic power. So now Nashville, a very democratic
Speaker 8: city that voted two to one for Joe Biden over
Speaker 8: Donald Trump in the presidential election, is represented by three
Speaker 8: conservative Republicans. And that just goes to show you the
Speaker 8: kind of tug of war that's happening in these cities
Speaker 8: that are located within red states.
Speaker 2: You know, it strikes me, Josh. The contrarian element to
Speaker 2: all of this is watching business, and in many cases
Speaker 2: liberal leaning business or wealthy liberals moving from places like
Speaker 2: New York to Florida, moving from places like California to Texas.
Speaker 2: Could that bring a balancing effect.
Speaker 8: Well, you know, it's interesting because Nashville itself is sort
Speaker 8: of in the middle of that balancing seesaw. I mean,
Speaker 8: on the one hand, it is a wonderful city, a
Speaker 8: huge creative economy, a music scene, healthcare, a lot of
Speaker 8: kind of creative class amenities that attract young people, minorities,
Speaker 8: people who are traditionally Democratic. But on the other hand,
Speaker 8: Republicans and Tennessee point out, hey, look we got rid
Speaker 8: of a state income tax. You know, this is a
Speaker 8: wonderful relocate to and there are many businesses relocating to Nashville, so,
Speaker 8: you know, the business community see things both ways. I mean,
Speaker 8: on the one hand, they're attracted there because it's great
Speaker 8: for their bottom lines and educated workforce. It's a great
Speaker 8: airports in the middle of the country. On the other hand,
Speaker 8: business people I talk to, we're worried that if the
Speaker 8: reputation of the city becomes you know, two right wing
Speaker 8: and too hostile to people who are Democrats, that it
Speaker 8: will hurt Democratic Nashville's economy, and ultimately that hurts everyone
Speaker 8: at Tennessee, Republican and Democrat alike.
Speaker 2: Great talk, Josh great to have you back. Let's do
Speaker 2: it more often. Joshua Green, Bloomberg BusinessWeek National correspondent with
Speaker 2: a great story that I suggest you check out. Carve
Speaker 2: out some time for it. There's a lot of great
Speaker 2: stuff there from Josh's travels. Thanks for listening to the
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