1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast. 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: It did seem like there was a deal to avoid 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: a shutdown. I remember coming on the air that day 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 2: to tell you it was the sixteenth of August this month, 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: not that long ago, and Chuck Schumer went on to 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: MSNBC to make the announcement. 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: Speaker McCarthy and I met a few weeks back and 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: we agreed we should do what's called a CR in 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 3: other words, a congressional resolution where you just extend the 13 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 3: existing funding for a few months so we could work 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: this out. And I thought that was a good sign. 15 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 3: But I would say this, our Republican colleagues in the 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: House need to follow the lead of their Republican colleagues 17 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 3: in the Senate and work in a bipartisan Wait. 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: Ah, so maybe that's what this is about, right, A 19 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: little reminder for the Freedom Caucus, try to get this 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 2: in the news. Start putting on the pressure. Even though 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: there is a deal in principle, is the White House 22 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: doing Kevin McCarthy's work for him. Let's reassemble the panel 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: with Genie Shanzo and Rick Davis Bloomberg Politics contributors. What 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: do you think about that, Genie? 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 4: You know, Kevin McCarthy, after that piece that you just 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 4: played from Chuck Schumer, he had a conference call with 27 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 4: his members and he talked about the idea and sort 28 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 4: of soft rolled the idea that there would be a 29 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 4: short term stop gap funding bill that they could pass. 30 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 4: He floats that, and of course they went into some 31 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 4: kind of uproar, and so, you know, I don't think 32 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 4: it's so mysterious what the White House is doing. They 33 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 4: are doing their politics. They are making Kevin McCarthy's life 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 4: pretty hard because for Kevin McCarthy to do this, he 35 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 4: is going to have to help ensure that those conservative 36 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 4: members come along, or at the very least that they 37 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 4: don't try to call for his ouster with one of them, 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 4: which one of them could do, because let's not forget 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 4: one of the agreements that he made to become Speaker 40 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 4: was they would return to regular order. Of course, that 41 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: hasn't worked out, and so they do need to do 42 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 4: a cr But I think the White House here is 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 4: sort of sticking the finger in Kevin McCarthy's eye and saying, 44 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 4: you've got to do this work with your members, because 45 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 4: it is no secret that Bob Good and other people, 46 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 4: Chip Roy and others were very upset by Kevin mc 47 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 4: McCarthy even talking about this idea, and that was about 48 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: a week ago or so on a conference call. 49 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: So I guess, does Kevin McCarthy need them? Rick? Is 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: my question? Does he need the Freedom Caucus to make 51 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: this work or can he actually kind of deal with 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer and move on. 53 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 5: Look, I think he'd like to have his caucus one 54 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 5: behind him. You know, that's always been the motivation. You know, 55 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 5: most speakers, they don't like taking boats where they got 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 5: a Democratic vote case to pass anything. But he's done 57 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 5: it before, so you know it's he's not immune to it. 58 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 5: He's been very clear that he's going to do a 59 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 5: CR and even the Freedom Conckers just a few days 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 5: ago said that, you know, any CR that gets passed 61 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 5: should include a bunch of border security stuff we want. 62 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 5: So they're already warming up to the idea that there's 63 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 5: going to be a CR. And part of the problem 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 5: he has a speaker is that the reason there's a 65 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 5: CR is because his own committee chair haven't passed their 66 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 5: appropriations bills and it's done in the Senate. So the 67 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 5: onus really is on Kevin McCarthy, and I don't think 68 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 5: he really cares what the White House says or doesn't 69 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 5: say about it, because he knows that if he needs 70 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 5: Democratic votes for a continuing resolution. By the way, Chuck Schumer, 71 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 5: continuing resolution not a congressional resolution, those are two different 72 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 5: to them. Yeah, he can get them. I mean, look, 73 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 5: we all know what Schumer means when he speaks. He 74 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 5: just doesn't always say what he means. 75 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: Just little schoolhouse rock on the CR here, Genie, I 76 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 2: don't know when you consider all of this happen and 77 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: at the same time as trying to figure out not 78 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: only the trajectory for government spending but interest rates continuing 79 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: to rise, I'm sure they'll be, you know, all kinds 80 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: of fun politics that come with the return of lawmakers 81 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: here in Washington. Is this something that the White House 82 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: can count on and it's just having fun with now 83 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 2: the idea of a stopgap? 84 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 4: You know, I don't know if they're having fun with it, 85 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 4: But I am not one of these people who feels 86 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 4: particularly optimistic that this is going to be easy sailing 87 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 4: when they get back in September. I mean, let's not 88 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 4: forget you couple all of this with emergency relief funding 89 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: for Ukraine at a very serious juncture. And these are 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 4: things that there is very little agreement on the Republican 91 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 4: side of the House about and with the Republicans in 92 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 4: the Senate, and so that is going to be a 93 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 4: tremendous firestorm. I don't know if the White House is 94 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: having fun with it, but what I do know is 95 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 4: this is going to make Kevin McCarthy more inclined. How 96 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 4: is he going to bring along those MAGA members? And 97 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 4: he does need them, not for their votes on this, 98 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: but he needs them because he doesn't want them calling 99 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 4: for his ouster, which it takes just one of them 100 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 4: to do. 101 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: What's he going to do. 102 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 4: He's going to turn his attention on Hunter Biden. This 103 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 4: is what he has done all along, try to divert 104 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 4: attention and try to get their support by talking about 105 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 4: issues that benefit the American public very little. And that 106 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 4: is what he's going to do to keep his job 107 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 4: and to try to move this forward. So of course 108 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 4: we will all be watching that distraction while we try 109 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 4: to hope that there's a cr to keep the government 110 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 4: funded and address important things like emergency relief Ukraine and 111 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 4: so many of the other things on all of our plates. 112 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 4: And for Republicans in the magaside to say that a 113 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 4: government shutdown, which they just said the other day, it's 114 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 4: not a big deal. You know, eighty percent of the 115 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: government stays open. Tell that to the public sector employees 116 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 4: who are severely impacted by a government shut Ye, there 117 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 4: are big, big impacts about this. Not to mention the 118 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 4: fact we already saw some of the credit agencies or 119 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 4: at least one say that if the United States doesn't 120 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 4: get its economic house in order by doing things like 121 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 4: passing budgets on a regular basis, something we really should 122 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 4: do fairly easily, we will downgrade it. And so that 123 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 4: is an impact for all of us. So I don't 124 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 4: take this at all lately that that is going to 125 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 4: go smoothly or that it's not going to impact any 126 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 4: of us, and we can all just sort of turn 127 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 4: our heads. 128 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: So you're both fired up. 129 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: I get it. You know. 130 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 2: It was around this time yesterday, Rick Davis, we were 131 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: talking about Mitch McConnell freezing up again in public, which 132 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: was a difficult moment, and it reminds us of the 133 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: fact that steve'scalise also might not be available for a 134 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: lot of this. I wonder what the impact is of 135 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 2: having potentially these two players not in the mix with 136 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy when this is being debated in September. What's 137 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: your thought, you. 138 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 5: Know, I think that it's it's less important on the 139 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 5: Senate side with Mitch McConnell because they've kind of they've 140 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 5: done their part right. Their budget is done, their appropriations 141 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 5: are done. The Democrats in the Senate will lead any 142 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 5: continuing resolution discussion, and so I think, you know, the 143 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 5: Republican caucus kind of manages itself in the Senate. I 144 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 5: think that the House is a much different animal, and 145 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 5: it's unruly by design. 146 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: So you know, it's not just. 147 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 5: Unruly with Republicans, it's been unruly with Democrats, and people 148 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 5: like Steve Scalice are really critical to that because you know, 149 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 5: they are the ones that really manage the different constituencies, 150 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 5: the five families as it is, in the Republican Party, 151 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 5: to get in line and support the speaker on these issues. 152 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 5: And the Speaker only has his ability to negotiate with 153 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 5: the Senate as long as he thinks he can rely 154 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 5: on at least the vast majority of his caucus. So 155 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 5: everything I've read, I don't know anything other than that 156 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 5: that Scalice has been doing great with his treatment and 157 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 5: we'll be able to function, you know, in his current 158 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 5: role in the House. But look, I mean there's a 159 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 5: much broader concern that the public is talking a lot 160 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 5: more about than we are, nett is the aging political 161 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 5: leadership of our country and what impact that has on 162 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 5: our ability to function. 163 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: This might be an odd question, Genie, but does this 164 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: situation that we're talking about that Rick reflects very well 165 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: there on Capitol Hill, Mitch Mcconnald Diane Feinstein, even John 166 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: Fetterman to a lesser degree as he's a young man. 167 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: But does this take pressure off Joe Biden in this 168 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: whole conversation about cognitive ability and age? 169 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 4: You know, unfortunately for Joe Biden. I don't think so. 170 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 4: I think it makes worse, It makes it worse rather, 171 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 4: And I think it's such an important question because you know, 172 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 4: this AP n RC poll that came out the other 173 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 4: day was stunning. You've got over sixty percent of Democrats, 174 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 4: and I believe it was around seventy percent of Americans 175 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 4: seventy seven percent of Americans saying Joe Biden is too 176 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: old to serve again and Democrats sixty six percent. So 177 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 4: what you're talking about is a political party that is 178 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 4: putting on the ballot a candidate for reelection that his 179 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 4: own party does not think can serve. And Mitch McConnell's 180 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 4: challenges that he's faced physically, which are so difficult to 181 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 4: watch Diane Feinstein, they just underscore the geriatric concerns that 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 4: voters have. So I think it puts more pressure on 183 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 4: Joe Biden, not less. So I think it's not only 184 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: an issue Biden's going to miss McConnell because he's a 185 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 4: friend and the help he offers in you know, sort 186 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: of pulling the Republicans to more of the center or 187 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 4: at least responsibility in Congress, as it pertains to so 188 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 4: many issues at this point. But the fact that it's 189 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 4: going to underscore what I think is now even more 190 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 4: important to his reelection than the economy and inflation, I 191 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 4: can't believe I'm saying it is the real challenge around 192 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 4: his age, which many voters on the Democratic side think 193 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 4: makes it makes him rather unable to serve. It's a huge, 194 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 4: huge concern. 195 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 196 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 197 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 198 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 199 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 200 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: It's section three of the fourteenth Amendment if you have 201 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: your pocket Constitution handy that bars people from holding office 202 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: if they first took an oath to support the Constitution 203 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: and then engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, 204 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof Section three, 205 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: fourteenth Amendment. Hearing about it a lot lately, and we 206 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: talked about it on this program right around this time 207 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: yesterday with Republican presidential candidate Asa Hutchinson, the former governor 208 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: of Arkansas, has floated this as basically grounds for Donald 209 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: Trump to be excluded or disqualified somehow from state ballots 210 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: in a presidential election. Here's what he said when I 211 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: asked him, if you plan to sue on the fourteenth Amendment. 212 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: Will you sue invoking the fourteenth Amendment to get him 213 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: out of this race? 214 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 6: No, I don't expect that to happen. There will be 215 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 6: plenty of others that will raise that issue. So I 216 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 6: don't need to, and I would not want to. But 217 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 6: let me describe it this way. It's a constitutional requirement 218 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 6: for eligibility. For example, right now, you have to be 219 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 6: thirty five to run for president of the United States. 220 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 6: A secretary of State will not put somebody on the 221 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 6: ballot who's thirty four or thirty three. They make that 222 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 6: determined nation. This is a constitutional requirement. They have to 223 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 6: review as well and make a determination whether they violate 224 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 6: the fourteenth Amendment. 225 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: He's obviously not going to be filing suit, but wondering 226 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 2: if a secretary of state might take that action. And 227 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: in New Hampshire they are taking a look at this. 228 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: There's been enough I guess, requests for attention here that, 229 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: in fact, the Secretary of State is talking to the 230 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: Attorney general about this. Now, this after a long shot 231 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: presidential candidate, as I read of the New York Times, 232 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: file a lawsuit in state court seeking an injunction to 233 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: keep the president former president off the ballot, and it's 234 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: not just in New Hampshire. The group Free Speech for 235 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: the People sent letters to Secretaries of States in New 236 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 2: Hampshire as well as Florida, New Mexico, Ohio, and Wisconsin, 237 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: urging them all to do the same. Let's reassemble our 238 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: panel for more on this. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno, 239 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Is this crazy talk, Rick, or is 240 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 2: there something to it? 241 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 5: Look? I think no matter what, we're going to see 242 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 5: this probably in the Supreme Court before the end of 243 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 5: this election, because as Asa Hutchison said, uh, he may 244 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 5: not do it, but he would expect others to. And 245 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 5: and so it's going to come out, you know, in 246 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 5: a state ruling. Uh, someone will challenge it. And then 247 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 5: and then the states are going to say, hey, this 248 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 5: has got you know, all get appealed up to the 249 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 5: Supreme Court. So here we go again, right, one more 250 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 5: legal issue. Uh that will impact uh, you know, uh, 251 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 5: Donald Trump's candidacy for president. And look, I mean this 252 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 5: was a provision put in place to keep Confederates from 253 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 5: getting elected after the Civil War, and you know, quote 254 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 5: you know, softly taking back the country. You know, I 255 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 5: think we have to look at this in the context 256 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 5: of what president are we setting. 257 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: Uh. 258 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 5: You know, there are obviously a lot of people who 259 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 5: will do anything they possibly can to stop Donald Trump 260 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 5: from being re elected president, and this is just another 261 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 5: tool that they'll use. 262 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: Another tool, Genie that could make a lot of people angry. 263 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: Do you think there's a Secretary of State out there, 264 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: whether it's New Hampshire or maybe a guy named Raffensberger 265 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: in Georgia that would consider this? 266 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 3: Oh? 267 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 4: Sure, and thank you, Joe. I was having Trump withdrawal syndrome. 268 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 4: So the fact that you allowed us to say his 269 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: name in the HOTE, I won't let you down, thank you. 270 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: You know. 271 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 4: The reality is is there is going to be a 272 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 4: lawsuit one or more filed on these grounds, and it 273 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 4: is not crazy talk. Let's just be clear. You have 274 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: two conservative Federalist Society legal scholars. They have a peace 275 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 4: coming out in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review next 276 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 4: year that we have seen already that they have said 277 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: President Trump, and they again are conservatives, they are originalists. 278 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 4: They have said a President Trump being elected would not 279 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 4: be able to serve under the Fourteenth Amendment Clause three 280 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 4: unless two thirds of each House of Congress for gave 281 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 4: him for the insurrection essentially or allowed him a pass. 282 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 4: And their argument is based on an original reading of 283 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 4: that clause and what they describe as abundant evidence that 284 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 4: Donald Trump engaged in insurrection, and can I underscore those 285 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 4: are conservative legal scholars in the federalist society, So there 286 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 4: is an argument to be made. I don't know if 287 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 4: it'll have any legs in the court, certainly, I don't 288 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 4: know about the Supreme Court, but it is a question 289 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: that is going to come up and be challenging, and 290 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 4: I'll say interesting to hear what people like Clarence Thomas 291 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 4: and Neil Gorsich and Aldo would have to say, because 292 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 4: they purport themselves to be originalists as well. So you 293 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 4: may find an interesting juxtaposition where you have people on 294 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 4: Trump's side leaning towards liberals who tend to read the 295 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 4: Constitution in a very different way and take into account 296 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: those things Rick was just talking about, Like the president, 297 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 4: it would set versus the intention of the words when 298 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 4: they were written and the definition, and so it's going 299 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 4: to be fascinating. I don't know if it'll stop him 300 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 4: from serving, but we will see lawsuits come. 301 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: Forward well if this goes to the Supreme Court, we're 302 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: planning back this episode. I'll tell you that, Rick. I 303 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: know you're talking precedent, but I know that we're also 304 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: dealing with a very divisive voter base here and a 305 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: lot of angry people right now. The president himself, the 306 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: former president, forgive me said it on that interview with 307 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: Tucker Crassley, started talking about civil war, about people taking 308 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 2: up arms after what we saw in January sixth. Do 309 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: you see this potentially if they go down this route 310 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: as a catalyst for violence, imagining if this did get 311 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court. 312 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, just for the record, Brad Rasenberger has already 313 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 5: opined on this, and his view is the voters ought 314 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 5: to decide these things and the last thing he wants 315 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 5: to do is encourage the State of Georgia to file 316 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 5: suit to try and remove anybody from a ballot. So 317 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 5: there are a lot of people out there who worry 318 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 5: about the long term implications of no election ever going uncontested, 319 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 5: uh in the courts, and and so I think that's 320 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 5: a fair assessment. 321 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 4: Uh. 322 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 5: You know, look, I mean, we we live in a 323 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 5: dangerous time. Political violence is up. You've got you know, 324 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 5: candidates like Donald Trump. He's not the only one who 325 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 5: go out there and preach you know, various levels of 326 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 5: of of uh, you know, sort of violent reactions to 327 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 5: his own legal problems, the you know, weaponization of government 328 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 5: and all those things, and and so, yeah, I worry 329 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 5: about another you know, January sixth Uh, when you have 330 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 5: people like Donald Trump who try and whitewash it by saying, oh, 331 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 5: it's just a bunch of you know, friendly uh, you know, 332 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 5: tourists going to the capital. I mean Tucker Carlson, I mean, 333 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 5: shame on him. You know, he obviously doesn't know how 334 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 5: to watch a television because you know, you can't see 335 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 5: the violence that was broadcast live and think that this 336 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 5: was anything other than insurrection. 337 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 338 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 339 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 340 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 341 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 342 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: It's just they open a couple of them right here 343 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: for this conversation. If you feel like a beer here, 344 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 2: pull up a chair with the panel. Rick Davis and 345 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: Jeanie Shanzino are with us here. Because beer has been 346 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: talked about quite a bit over the past couple of 347 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: days here in Washington. It came up at the White 348 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: House briefing, and it came up again last night on 349 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 2: Newsmax with Ted Cruz. 350 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 7: Have viewed they're trying to go after and regulate ceiling fans. 351 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 7: I gotta tell you, it's hot in Texas. We don't 352 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 7: want to get rid of our ceiling fans. And now 353 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 7: these idiots have come out and said, drink two beers 354 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 7: a week. That's theirline. Well, I got to tell you 355 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 7: if they want us to drink two beers a week, frankly, 356 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 7: they can kiss my ass, all right. 357 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: So, and then he actually took a drink of a 358 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: beer on Cable News last night. This is from I 359 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: think the gas stove and ceiling fan file, if not 360 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: the washing machine file. It came up at the White 361 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 2: House earlier this week with the Fox reporter who referred 362 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 2: to a conversation in the Daily Mail of all places, 363 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: with George Koob, director of the National Institute on Alcohol 364 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: Abuse and Alcoholism, preparing I guess a suggestion that for 365 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: our health, not a mandate, but a suggestion that we 366 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 2: limit our intake Genie Shanzano to two beers a week? 367 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: Is this going to become a draconian rule? As Ted 368 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 2: Cruz is suggesting. 369 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 4: So many things by this segment? Joe, thank you. I 370 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: didn't know, for instance, that Canada recommends only one for 371 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 4: women and two for men, right, That was new to me. Yeah, 372 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 4: And I think it's very very strange that anybody would 373 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 4: expect you would ask this doctor who studies alcoholism for 374 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 4: his life if he's going to recommend more alcohol. Of 375 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 4: course they're not going to recommend it. But listen, when 376 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 4: do people really listen to the government's recommendation. 377 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. Hey, Rick, do you want to 378 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: meet for a beer later? 379 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 5: There's Joe. 380 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: I think he's a martini guy. 381 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 382 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 383 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 384 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcast. 385 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: We're going to begin with actually this remarkable piece from 386 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 2: Josh Green. If you haven't seen that, get to your 387 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 2: terminal or Bloomberg BusinessWeek, Blue cities in red states become 388 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 2: latest targets for Republicans. The headline that says it all 389 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: and Josh, it's great to have you back with us here. 390 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 2: You focus on Nashville and the state of Tennessee for 391 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: a lot of this piece, but it's bigger than that. 392 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: As you report and write, similar dynamics and other states 393 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: have also led to a flurry of laws and executive 394 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: actions preempting local ordinances. You point to Greg Abbott in Texas, 395 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: Ron de Santis in Florida. Can we call this a 396 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: national trend? 397 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 8: Yeah? I think it's absolutely a national trend. It's been 398 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 8: one for a while, but it's one that's particularly sped 399 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 8: up over the last few years. And now if you 400 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 8: follow the news, you know, you see these increasingly routine 401 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 8: stories about clashes in particularly red state governments between state 402 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 8: legislators who are Republicans and of urban blue city legislators 403 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 8: who are Democrat. And this has really become kind of 404 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 8: a new frontier in American politics of this battle between states, 405 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 8: red states and blue cities. 406 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: People think about red and blue America as being different states, 407 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 2: and you look at the map with that big red 408 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 2: blob in the middle and the blue stripes along. What 409 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: we're talking about red and blue division within states, and 410 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: it strikes me that capitals, you know, of course have 411 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: the political power, but that doesn't seem to matter if 412 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: it's a Republican legislature. 413 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 8: And yeah, I mean, like we all we all got 414 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 8: to know that because of the you know, the famous 415 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 8: presidential electoral maps. But you know, one of the trends 416 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 8: in political demographics has just become clearer and clearer with 417 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 8: every passing years is that these red blue divisions really 418 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 8: happen at every level in the country and the state, 419 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 8: and even within cities. You know, urban areas tend to 420 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 8: be much bluer, and ext urban and rural areas tend 421 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 8: to be much redder. And so a lot of the 422 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 8: friction that you have between you know, red states and 423 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 8: blue states and a presidential primary or a you know, 424 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 8: in Congress, those same kind of battles are playing out 425 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 8: within states. And partly because our national politics has become 426 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 8: so broken down and gridlocked and neither party can really 427 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 8: get big legislation through, both parties have increasingly kind of 428 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,479 Speaker 8: turned their focus to states, and it's an area where, 429 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 8: particularly in the South, where there are really strong Republican 430 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 8: legislative majorities, but still you know, urban capital cities in 431 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 8: their midst This is where the real classes have come 432 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 8: in politics, whether it's over gun violence, or race, or 433 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 8: COVID mask mandates or these things, just about anything. 434 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 2: It spawned national stars here politically, when you talk about 435 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: Greg Abbott or Ron de Santis, I'm sure I could 436 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: name a few others here. It's been the foundation of 437 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 2: a presidential campaign for DeSantis, you. 438 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 8: Know, it has. And I think it's a reflection of 439 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 8: another trend, and that is the nationalization of our politics. 440 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 8: You know, the old famous Tip O'Neil phrase that all 441 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 8: politics is local said that I think in the early 442 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 8: nineteen eighties. Well, today all politics is national, and that 443 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 8: includes city and state politics. And as you know, local 444 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 8: American newspapers die as local TV station does, less hard 445 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 8: news reporting. People are getting their news sources from national 446 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 8: partisan outlets, which I think has radicalized people on both sides, 447 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 8: and so you don't have the kind of practical consensus 448 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 8: making politics between you know, moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans 449 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 8: that you historically had in states like Tennessee and particularly 450 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 8: in Nashville that that's becoming rarer and rarer these days, 451 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 8: and it's being replaced by the same kind of contention 452 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 8: and fighting that we have here in Washington. 453 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: The idea of all politics being national just can't be 454 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: good on a lot of different levels. But there is 455 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 2: a local fallout. As you point out, I'm struck by 456 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: the time that you spent in Nashville City Hall and 457 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: the time that you spent with Mayor Cooper, who's decided 458 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 2: because of all of this not to run for reelection. 459 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I you know, Nashville is one of 460 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 8: the most interesting cases because Tennessee has a long history 461 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 8: of this kind of bipartisan consensus and they're famous, or 462 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 8: they have been famous over the last half decade for 463 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 8: kind of minting these national figures who are kind of moderate, 464 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 8: consensus minded Republicans, people like Howard Baker and Lamar Alexander. 465 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 8: And yet today they're in the news because the Republican 466 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 8: legislature has expelled black Democratic lawmakers for processing gun violence. 467 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 8: And I sort of picked this as the location of 468 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,479 Speaker 8: the piece because there seemed to be more friction here 469 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 8: than in almost any other city. And I sat down 470 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 8: with John Cooper the mayor who has led a very 471 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 8: successful term in terms of economics, in terms of growing Nashville. 472 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 8: The economy is booming. It's more than recovered from COVID, 473 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 8: which a lot of a lot of urban centers have not. 474 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 8: And yet there's constant fighting between Republicans who want to 475 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 8: impose their values on Nashville and Nashville Democrat and citizens 476 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 8: who want to govern themselves the way cities have traditionally 477 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 8: been able to do. What's really new about this trend 478 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 8: is that both parties at the state level tended to 479 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 8: defer governance to cities themselves, and now we're seeing that 480 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 8: go away as these political battles become nationalized and as 481 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 8: Republicans and Democrats lose the outlet of Congress as a 482 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 8: real viable way to legislate the issues that they care about. 483 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 2: You know, people talk about how to solve division in 484 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: this country, and we talk about gerry mandering and a 485 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: couple of other very significant elements. But when you drill 486 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 2: down on a local level like this and you start 487 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: looking inside states, it's just much more granular, isn't it. 488 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, it really is. And what's happening is the old 489 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 8: niceties and political norms that kind of used to keep 490 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 8: the machine running have gone away and broken down. And 491 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 8: you see that distinctly in Nashville and even in Mayor 492 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 8: Cooper's own family. I also met with his brother, Jim Cooper, 493 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 8: who I've known for years and years, is a longtime 494 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 8: Democratic congressman, a centrist blue dog Democrat who had represented 495 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 8: Nashville on an ausince nineteen eighty two, and he was 496 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 8: essentially forced into retirement by Tennessee Republicans this year because 497 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 8: they took his Democratic district and they chopped it up 498 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 8: and spread it out among three conservative Republican districts, so 499 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 8: essentially undermining democratic power. So now Nashville, a very democratic 500 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 8: city that voted two to one for Joe Biden over 501 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 8: Donald Trump in the presidential election, is represented by three 502 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 8: conservative Republicans. And that just goes to show you the 503 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 8: kind of tug of war that's happening in these cities 504 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 8: that are located within red states. 505 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: You know, it strikes me, Josh. The contrarian element to 506 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: all of this is watching business, and in many cases 507 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: liberal leaning business or wealthy liberals moving from places like 508 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: New York to Florida, moving from places like California to Texas. 509 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: Could that bring a balancing effect. 510 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 8: Well, you know, it's interesting because Nashville itself is sort 511 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 8: of in the middle of that balancing seesaw. I mean, 512 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 8: on the one hand, it is a wonderful city, a 513 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 8: huge creative economy, a music scene, healthcare, a lot of 514 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 8: kind of creative class amenities that attract young people, minorities, 515 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 8: people who are traditionally Democratic. But on the other hand, 516 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 8: Republicans and Tennessee point out, hey, look we got rid 517 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 8: of a state income tax. You know, this is a 518 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 8: wonderful relocate to and there are many businesses relocating to Nashville, so, 519 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 8: you know, the business community see things both ways. I mean, 520 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 8: on the one hand, they're attracted there because it's great 521 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 8: for their bottom lines and educated workforce. It's a great 522 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 8: airports in the middle of the country. On the other hand, 523 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 8: business people I talk to, we're worried that if the 524 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 8: reputation of the city becomes you know, two right wing 525 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 8: and too hostile to people who are Democrats, that it 526 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 8: will hurt Democratic Nashville's economy, and ultimately that hurts everyone 527 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 8: at Tennessee, Republican and Democrat alike. 528 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: Great talk, Josh great to have you back. Let's do 529 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: it more often. Joshua Green, Bloomberg BusinessWeek National correspondent with 530 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: a great story that I suggest you check out. Carve 531 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: out some time for it. There's a lot of great 532 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: stuff there from Josh's travels. Thanks for listening to the 533 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 2: Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 534 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts, 535 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 536 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.