1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from house stup 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're gonna do some 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: good old fashioned myth busting. I am so excited. I mean, 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: it's it's nice to do, you know, just bust some 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: myths every now and then. I love digging out stereotypes 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: and myths and all sorts of hetero sexist whatever's and 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: getting rid of them. Yeah, I mean, and I don't 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: feel like I used the word fallow centric all that often. 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: It's psych I use it on public transit as often 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: as possible, just make people uncomfortable around me. Um, Actually 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: I don't. But this whole lesbian bed death idea and 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: stereotype is as fallow centric as the Washington Monument. Oh yeah, 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: but apparently so American. It is kind of American because, 15 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: in fact, this term lesbian bed death was coined in 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: the book American Couples, Money, Sex, in Power, which came 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: out in and it was co authored by sociologists Pepper 18 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: Schwartz and Philip Bloomstein. And I was surprised that Old 19 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Pepper Old Pepper Mill came up as the arch enemy 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: to lesbian sexuality because she kind of co coined this 21 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: term because it's the same Pepper who we talked about 22 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: in our single hood Stigma episode. That's what she's from. Yeah, 23 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: as soon as I saw the name, because my first 24 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: actor was like, all Pepper, what a great name. And 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: then I was like, wait, I know Pepper. How do 26 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: I know Pepper? But yeah, she had some good things 27 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: to say about single ladies, right, Yeah, she's the one 28 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: who is like single by choice is a okay, we 29 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: need to get rid of the single hood stigma. And 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: I was looking across the internet for any interviews that 31 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Pepper has done since maybe reevaluating this whole lesbian bed 32 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: death thing to that Pepper and Old Phil kicked off, 33 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: but I couldn't find anything. Listeners or Pepper, if you're listening, peer, 34 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: if you're aware of of this, UM, I would love 35 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: to see it because I am really curious to know, 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: since this concept has come under such scrutinies since then, 37 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: whether she still stands by the I mean talk about 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: stigma UM A really stigmatizing terms that she came up with. UM. 39 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: And just a quick side note that whenever I think 40 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: of Pepper shorts. I think of Pepper Saltzman, who is 41 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: played by Nathan Lane on Modern Family. He's a fabulous 42 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: friend of Cam and Mitchell who always throws very elaborately 43 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: themed brunches and parties. And uh, Pepper is just one 44 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: of my favorite like Rando characters who comes up on TV. 45 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: So it made me so sad to think ill of 46 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: a Pepper because I usually, you know, like, hold hold 47 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: Pepper so dearly in my heart. I think my godmother 48 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: had a had a Scottie named Pepper. I was about 49 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: to say Pepper also sounds like the name that people 50 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: give small dogs Nachnauzers. Um, so what Pepper and Philip? Oh? Yeah, 51 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: I forgot. We have an episode to do all all 52 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: Pep and phil In this massive study that they conducted 53 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: and published in American Couples, which by standards, the book 54 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: kind of went viral um in their research. In surveys 55 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: with their study participants, they concluded that lesbians have the 56 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: least amount of sex over time compared to straight and 57 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: gay couples. And it wasn't only that lesbians were having 58 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: less self reported sex than straight and gay couples, but 59 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: that the drop off over time was also the steepest 60 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: that yeah, and so naturally that brings them to the 61 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: extreme name of lesbian bed death. But it's so extreme, 62 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: so extreme, and I kept accidentally typing deathbeds, yes, lesbian 63 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: deathbed over and over again. I was like, whoa, this 64 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: episode just got so dark. I know what you were 65 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: about to say, not only because you and I are 66 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: so connected, but because literally the other day when I 67 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: came into the office and I was like, what are 68 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: we what are we talking about this week? And you 69 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: were like, I'm already reading about lesbian deathbed and I 70 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: was like, I'm just not gonna I think I know 71 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: what she means. But also and then I just kind 72 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: of chuckled to myself, thank you there, just like letting 73 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: me I knew which meant, but also like, oh, that 74 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: could be sad. We could make we could make jokes. 75 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just gonna let it, let it, 76 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: let it read. So the precise wording of how pepin 77 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: Phil conducted their survey is really important to this conversation 78 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: because they asked these survey participants lesbian women, game men, 79 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: straight men, and women how often they had had sex 80 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: with their partners in the past, like week month, year, 81 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: and of the lesbian couples, when we were looking at 82 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: um how often they had had sex, you know, in 83 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: the past week or if they had sex at least 84 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: once in the past week. Lesbian couples who have been 85 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: together for less than two years, seventy of them were like, yeah, 86 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: we've we've had the sex in the past week. And 87 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: then from two to ten years together the percentage drops 88 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: off to thirty seven. Meanwhile, for married couples, of the 89 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: people who had been together for two years or less 90 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: had had sex at least once a week, and seventy 91 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: three of the people who had been together for two 92 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: to ten years had had sex in the past week. 93 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: And gay men had similar statistics. So you do see 94 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: from the lesson two years to the two to ten 95 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: year mark, there is that gap of having sex within 96 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: the past week, last month. And they also found that 97 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, lesbians were likely to say that, uh, they 98 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: and their partners hadn't had had any of the sex 99 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: in like the past month, so they're like, something's going 100 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: on here and it is bit death. Oh. They didn't 101 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: want to look at it from like, well, what does 102 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: it mean when men are involved? What are what are 103 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: norms that are dictating these things. What about bisexual or 104 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: band sexual people. Well, that's something that's really highlighted in 105 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: the New York Times book review of American Couples from 106 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: a D three um, where the reviewer is like, Okay, 107 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: what we've learned from this is that regardless of sexual orientation, 108 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: men and women have sex, and just profoundly these were profound, 109 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: profoundly different ways. Quote women lesbian or straight, do not 110 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: like to dominate, to be the more powerful partner, to 111 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: feel superior. They want to balance. They want equality. And 112 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: then in parentheses, the author goes on to write, so 113 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: important is a balance of power to lesbians that they 114 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: are the group whose members are the most likely to 115 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: have split up to resent being put in a more 116 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: powerful role. Indeed, they're the group that has sex the 117 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: least often, since a common lament among them was a 118 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: dislike for being the one who always had to initiate sex. 119 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: So basically the conclusions drawn from this is like, lesbian 120 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: bed death exists because women just we don't want to 121 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: have to initiate anything. But also I love that. Um, 122 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: some of the fans of our B D s M 123 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: episodes would probably have a bone to pick with the 124 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: assertion across the board that women, regardless of sexual orientation, 125 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: never want to dominate. I'm nodding my head vigorously. I mean, 126 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: there's there's so so much in this one brief paragraph 127 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: from this book review, because a lot of it is 128 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: just playing into and reinforcing, of course, binary gender stereotypes, 129 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: because we have men and when women just divided into 130 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: two groups, and then you have stereotypes of gay men 131 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: as being super promiscuous, whereas lesbians are sexless because there's 132 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: not a penis in the room to dominate, to initiate things. 133 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 1: I mean, like reading reading this just reminded me of 134 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, when you're trying to figure out where you 135 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: and your girlfriend want to go out to dinner or 136 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: go out for drinks, and it's like, where do you 137 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: want to go? I don't know where do you want 138 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: to go? I don't know where do you want to go? 139 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: And you like, forty five minutes later, you are so 140 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: hungry and you end up going to the same thing. 141 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: You end up just like going to McDonald's and saying, 142 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: screw it, you just described my my relationship with my boyfriend. Honestly, Um, yeah, 143 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure where that story was going. Well, not 144 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: not any restaurant anytime soon. Um, But it's I mean, 145 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: I think that pointing that out, Kristen, is so important 146 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: not only to highlight the faults with Pep and Phil's research, 147 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: but also to point out the faults that could exist 148 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: when researchers don't excavate their own not only their own biases, 149 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: but also just sort of the con strengths that are 150 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: on all of us socially in our days and ages. Um, 151 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: Because if you're not pulling all of those things apart, 152 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: then you're not going to get a true picture of 153 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: what's going on with people's sex lives. Well. In Another 154 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: reason why the concept has been criticized is that Schwartz 155 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: and Bloomstein a k a. Pep and Phil really drew 156 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: from a small, rather homogeneous, very white study sample. Yeah. 157 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: So also, historically speaking, these kinds of supposed lesbian bad 158 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: death statistics could almost be considered a product of confirmation 159 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: bias exactly. Yeah. So, Kristen and I were thumbing through 160 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: the book Human Sexuality and Encyclopedia like you do a 161 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: little light reading every day before work to really get 162 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: pumped up to talk about gender and sexuality and in 163 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: in the lesbian section. I just I love everything. I 164 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: just said, we've got a dog eared of course, the 165 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: whole book is dog eared every page. Uh, they write 166 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: at least as far back as the ancient Hebrews, commentators 167 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: have assumed two women together could do nothing sexually. Hello, 168 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: have you people listened to our Boston Marriages episode? Same thing, 169 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: the assumption that two women living together or coexisting or 170 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: hanging out, cuddling or whatever, it's never gonna be sexual 171 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: because you know, a women are frigid and their moral upstanding, virtuous, virgin, 172 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: virginal angels. But also like, well the right no pain 173 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: is involved. Yeah, I mean, what what can you possibly do? 174 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this is even. So we're recording this like 175 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: very soon after we closed out our summer series on 176 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: romantic comedies, the last episode of which was on Queer 177 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: rom Coms. And it reminds me, this whole thing reminds 178 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: me of a scene in Kissing Jessica Stein, where Jessica Stein, 179 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: who has never had any sexual relations with a woman, 180 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: is asking her soon to be girlfriend like, so, how 181 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: do we even dot dot dot? I mean it's not Yeah, 182 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: and we've been thinking this just for like thousands of years. Well, yeah, 183 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's the episode of Sex in the City 184 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: where Samantha's dating the female artist, right, and like it's 185 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: the biggest deal to her that and ann is normalized 186 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: in the narrative. Uh, it's the biggest deal that a 187 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: penis is not involved. And so the artist woman makes 188 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: this big show of presenting her with adildo because like, oh, 189 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: here it is. Don't worry, Like I want you to 190 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: be sexually satisfied, and and that's a positive thing. Caring 191 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: about your partners sexual preferences is always a positive thing. 192 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: But that just further's the whole narrative of like a 193 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: straight women are totally stupid and ignorant, but be that 194 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: like sex can never ever be satisfying without a penis 195 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: shaped thing to go along with it. Yeah, and that 196 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: the extent of lesbian sexuality is like brushing each other's 197 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: hair and making long baths because literally, like that was 198 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: a scene in that Sexy City episode where they take 199 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: a bath, and I think that's when Samantha spoiler alert, 200 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: is like I can't do this anymore. And this marginalization 201 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: of female sexuality and lesbian sexuality, queer sexuality, um, is 202 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: reflected even in legalities around sodomy. So, for instance, women 203 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: having sex with women was not forbidden under English common law. 204 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: And as William Eskridge points out in his book Dishonorable Passions, 205 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: which is a history of US sodomy laws and we're 206 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: looking for some light reading this season, um, he notes 207 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: that from the sixteen hundreds, the American colonies outlawed beast 208 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: reality and anal sex between women and men, and of 209 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: course between two men, but the New Haven Colony was 210 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: the only one to include women having sex with women 211 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: in its definition of sodomy. And similarly, in the late 212 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, many states, because of urbanization 213 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: and concerns about you know, women's sexuality outside of the 214 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: home and premarital sex and all of that, many states 215 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: started to regulate oral sex, but oral sex only centering 216 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: around penises rather than oral sex regarding vaginas. Is that 217 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: is that a smooth way to put in oral sex 218 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: regarding vaginas? It sounds like that like a memo oral sex, 219 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: like you're jotting it down on a notepad. But didn't 220 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: you send me? What did you send me? About Thomas 221 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: Jefferson and like nose piercing. What was that about? So 222 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: I want to go back and verify this because it 223 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: was either in that human Sexuality encyclopedia or it was 224 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: no it in Dishonorable Passions. But um in seventeen seventies six. 225 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: So this historical snippet I ran across alleges. Thomas Jefferson 226 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: recommended that rather than being executed for sodomy, women caught 227 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: having sexual relations with other women should simply like have 228 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: their nose pears, kind of like scarlet letter style. Interesting, 229 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: so the men were expected to be executed for sodomy 230 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: in certain cases, but not the women, according to this 231 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: right snippet, although Scridge points out um that there were 232 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: very few executions that actually took place um as a 233 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: result of these sodomy laws. Um, but I mean the 234 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: threatened punishments were still out there. So I mean all 235 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: of that to say that it's never really been seen, 236 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: even legally, as as a risk. It's not until as 237 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: we talked about in the Boston Marriages episode, it's not 238 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: really until um the you know nineteen tens and twenties, 239 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: when we start to get the rise of psychotherapy, that 240 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: people start worrying more about lesbianism. Yes, scary, scary inverted sexuality. Um, 241 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: but when we do jump forward back to the nineteen 242 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: eighties and beyond, we start to see more and more 243 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: people being like, are these lines drawn in the sand 244 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to libido, sex drive, sexuality? Are these 245 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: entirely accurate? Yeah? I mean, And this amid all of 246 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: the the U haul jokes and Beth Dead panic and 247 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: ideas about you know, lesbians having like very boring sex 248 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: lives once they couple up, the U haul joke being like, 249 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: what does the lesbian bring to the second date? I 250 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: think I'm watching this, Um, that's not part of the joke. 251 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: I actually think I'm watching this joke. Um, But the 252 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: answer is a U haul because they're gonna like move 253 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: in together immediately and then sleep in their their deathbed. Yeah. 254 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: I mean, because we all know that lesbians do practice 255 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: a just a lesbian form of bundling. You know, they've 256 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: they've got the lesbian bundling board between them. They're sleeping 257 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: in their lesbian bundling sex. So no lesbian sex is happening. Yeah, 258 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: why why would they want to do that? Did I 259 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: say lesbian? Enough? Well, and speaking of the repetition of lesbians, though, 260 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean the very concept of lesbian bed death is 261 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: also a very narrow concept of sexuality in that women 262 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: who have sexual relationships or just relationships with other women 263 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: are necessarily lesbian. That there's not like fluidity happening. There's 264 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: bisexual erature going on. Of course, um, all sorts of things, 265 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: so many things. But thankfully we have more recent research 266 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: that's like, okay, you know what we need to We 267 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: need to do some digging here. So in fourteen, uh, 268 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: there was a study published in the Journal of Sex 269 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: Research titled Beyond Lesbian Bed Death, Enhancing our Understanding of 270 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: the Sexuality of Sexual Minority Women. And this is one 271 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: of several several studies and I mean, if you listen 272 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: this men to you know this, this is one of 273 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: several studies to a question the penis centric, penetration centric 274 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: view of what is sexual intercourse? Yeah, because the study 275 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: authors had a hunch that in that nineteen three survey 276 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: asking people like when was the last time you had sex, 277 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: you immediately think of that intercourse centric definition of it. 278 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: So they're like, well, what if we take surveys of 279 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: both genital and non genital contact, because there are all 280 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: sorts of definitions of sex and satisfying sexual expressions that 281 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: do not necessarily include any form of penetration. That's right, yes, 282 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: And so it is possible, ladies and gentlemen, that not 283 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: only PEP and Fils study, but so many past studies 284 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: of sexuality and sex erased huge parts of the population 285 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: and a huge number of sexual activities because we are 286 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: so stuck on this idea of penetration or genital to 287 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: genital contact in general general genital to genital contact. Right, 288 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: I had to pause and make sure that I said 289 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: all of that right. That in oral sex regarding vaginas, 290 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: I mean, we're just like to smooth talking gal ok, 291 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: no one, No one can ever accuse us though, of 292 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: being like overly sexual on this podcast, because we're clearly 293 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: very still like I'm going to write a memo about said, Oh, 294 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: we're just trying to choose our words carefully for general audience. 295 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: Um but speaking of words, I speaking of words, probably 296 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: I think that might be the worst transition I've ever made. 297 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: Um But I learned two new technical terms thanks to 298 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: this Beyond Bad Death study, which is fraudage and tribe. 299 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: It is m and fraudage is, as far as I 300 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: could tell, just has to do with frontal contact, kissing, cuddling, hugging. 301 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: But tribe itsm is a fancy term for what Caroline 302 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: for sisoring. I had to look it up to I 303 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: was like, tribe is that supposed to be tribalism? Is 304 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: there some weird like what's going on? And I had 305 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: to google it because I can emen my own straight 306 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: person ignorance. I had no idea. Yeah, so we have 307 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: fraudage and tribe it is. Um Um. Also shout out 308 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: to any a sexuals listening to this as well, because 309 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: there is satisfaction that that community derives, obviously from from 310 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: not having what we would think of as this, you know, 311 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: the phallocentric, hetero sexist, cycentric concept of what sex equals. God, 312 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if I could say that five times fast. 313 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: I certainly can't. I'm surprised that it all came as 314 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: as I got it out that one time. Yeah. But 315 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: so basically this study, that beyond bed death study, which 316 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: should be like a store like bed bath and beyond 317 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: next door is beyond bed death death. Oh it's even 318 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: better to combine it. Um. I love us um. So 319 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: basically these researchers happily found that once you do broaden 320 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: all of those categories, once you remove all of those 321 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: restrictions in terms of sexuality and all of that stuff, 322 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: you find that or they found that in their study 323 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: most of their participants did engage in non genital sexual 324 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: contact at least once a day and genital contact one 325 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: to three times a week, and only eleven of the 326 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: women who were in relationships ten years plus had no 327 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: genital contact in the past month, which is about the 328 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: same for women in opposite sex relationships of the same length. Yeah, 329 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: and they found that controlling for other factors, relationship length 330 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: only accounted for seven percent of the variability or the 331 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: chance that you had or had not had any kind 332 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: of intimate contact um in a recent period of time, 333 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: which again is not far off at all from similar 334 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: statistics from opposite sex relationships. Rather, they found frequency of 335 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: genital contact was a stronger determinant of relationship satisfaction than 336 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: non genital contact, not terribly surprising um, but as the 337 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: study authors pointed out, that challenges the idea our stereotype 338 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: of lesbians as only wanting that emotional bond just to 339 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: talk throughout the night and bundling, essentially getting in your 340 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: bundle bag and gab until the sun comes up les bundles. 341 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: I think that you could probably get lesbian bundle bags 342 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: at bed bath and beyond bed death. I love this 343 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: so much. Um. Yeah, but here's the thing. So, you know, 344 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: all of these studies that we started earlier, like the 345 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: study in particular, looked at frequency as a determinant of 346 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: satisfying sex lives, like if you're not having sex X 347 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: number of times a week, then your bed is dead 348 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, but it turns out that there's other factors, 349 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: and that is quality. So quality versus quantity and and 350 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: length of time and what I'm getting at these study 351 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: authors in study described uh, sexual activity as quote unquote 352 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: leisurely and lasting fifty seven minutes on average. Another study, UH, 353 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: of the women in that study reported it lasting about 354 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: two hours. And I don't mean to sound like a 355 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: prude or an old or someone who is not committed 356 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: to my loving boyfriend, but an hour I got things 357 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: to do. Two hours, like I'm going to need to 358 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: take a bathroom break. Two hours. That's a movie and 359 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: the previews, you know. Um, so we're gonna dig more 360 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: into this quality versus quantity issue when we come right 361 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: back from a quick break. So we have some more 362 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: studies that we want to highlight. But first I wanted 363 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: to toss out a quote that was cited in a 364 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: piece over the Daily dot Um which was, you know, 365 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: myth busting the concept of lesbian bed depth, and they 366 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: cited um something that sex therapists Suzanne I. Senda wrote 367 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: in a two thousand one article in which she said 368 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: it's safe to say that if sex research questions focus 369 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: on longevity instead of the number of sexual acts, lesbians 370 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: would be the winners. I pictured them on a on 371 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: a pedestal with a trophy. Yeah, although really doesn't have 372 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: to be a competition, That's what I'm saying, it shouldn't be. 373 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: That's absolutely what I thought as well. This is not 374 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: a thing winners and losers. If you're having sex that 375 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: feels good and that you like, and it's the frequency 376 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: that's pleasing and the link that's pleasing, Uh, then we're 377 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: all winners and we all we all will win A 378 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: giant clitter Is shaped trophy made by clitteracy artist Sophia Wallace. 379 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: Although I have a feeling that like men who have 380 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: are having sex with men. Sorry. Sorry, yeah, I just 381 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: got really caught up in our like lesbian bundling concept. 382 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: Maybe we just all pizza. Yeah, there you go, take 383 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: a lactic or a giant you know, winner's cup filled 384 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: with pizza rolls. Oh yeah, I'm hungry. I am so hungry. Um. 385 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: But it absolutely has been necessary for researchers too highlight 386 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: how you know this, this frequency versus longevity issue um 387 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: is pertinent to putting the bed death idea to bed 388 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: and death. So there is a another study that came 389 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: out in the Journal of Sexual Medicine which went viral 390 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: because it found that single lesbian identified women orgasm more 391 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: often during sexual encounters compared to single straight identified women. 392 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: And everyone was like, whoa, yeah, well, I mean a 393 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: lot of this is physical, a lot of its emotional 394 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: ement because with women, if women are having sex with 395 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: women and we find that on average they're taking like 396 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: almost an hour to do it, that's a lot of 397 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: built in for play time. Well, and speaking of for play, 398 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: here are a couple of factors that researchers think contribute 399 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: to the higher rate of orgasms. And I do want 400 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: to note that, like a lot of the coverage of 401 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: this study said, you know, lesbians have more orgasms as 402 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: if it's like, you know, just like by sheer number, 403 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: like the gross number of orgasms is larger for women 404 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: having sexual relations with women versus women having sexual relations 405 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: with men um or you know, penises and vaginas interacting 406 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: like at a party around the or dirt table exactly. Um, 407 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: but it's worth noting that they're talking about like orgasms 408 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: per sexual encounter, which to me is a notable like 409 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: nuance to this because it's like this, your frequency of 410 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: sexual encounters might be lower, but it's like getting more 411 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: bang for your buck kind of. And one factor to 412 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: that is that research finds that women in same sex 413 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: relationships are way likelier to engage in oral sex. Also, 414 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: we've got some neurology happening, um in neuralogists. Sorry. Van 415 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Anders presented some research to the Society for Scientific Study 416 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: of Sex. They're like annual conference their acronymists. She went 417 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: to the conference. Um, I'm sure that's so fun to 418 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: hear in in ear boats. Sorry, but Van Anders found 419 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: that women expect to both give and receive orgasms when 420 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: they're having sex with other women, like almost like it's 421 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: a given, like it's it's going to happen, that's what 422 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: you do. Whereas women having sex with men who tend 423 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: to rely a lot on vaginal intercourse did not expect 424 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: to receive an orgasm. And it makes me think of 425 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: like you know that book The Secret that Oprah made 426 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: it so popular. It's like, is it because we're not 427 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: manifesting our orgasms? Do we need to make a vision 428 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: board where that kind of like sexual pleasure we want 429 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: to have. I mean, this is like the stuff we 430 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: discussed in our last episode when it comes to libido 431 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: and communication, Like no matter who you are, what your 432 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: sexual preferences are, like when you communicate with your partner 433 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: or partner's plural that you want orgasm or don't I mean, adam, whatever, um, 434 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: then you can all work toward a common goal. I mean, 435 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: like again not to be t m I, but like 436 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: my boyfriend and I have use sex that way too, 437 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: like everybody's going to have a good time, um, And 438 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: so we work towards that, you know, because I don't 439 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: think it's fair otherwise. And since two thousand fourteen was 440 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: apparently just like the year of research about um same 441 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: sex female sexuality. Karen Blair, who sent a lot of 442 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: work in this area, published what is considered like the 443 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: first study comparing sexual frequency and duration of same sex 444 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: female and same sex male relationships and opposite sex relationships. 445 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: So essentially, she took the same groups of people that 446 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: old Pep and Phil were looking at in nine and 447 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: she wanted to look more at uh frequency and duration. 448 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: And again she found that women having sex with women 449 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: have lower sexual frequency overall, but compared to averages between 450 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: eight to fifteen minutes for straight sex, thirty minutes was 451 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: the average starting point for lesbian couples. And I don't 452 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: have the average number for for gay men sexy times too, 453 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: but I know that of those like lesbians were having 454 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: the longest sex of everyone, But there was no significant 455 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: difference among those groups in terms of relationship satisfaction. Not 456 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: to mention, everyone was like, you know what, Yeah, we 457 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: go through dry spells from time to time, because we do. 458 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: Most people do, some people don't, most people do. Everybody's different, 459 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: everyone's different. Um, And the big conclusion that Blair drew 460 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: from this was that our focus on how often are 461 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: you having sex is leaving out the quality of what's happening. 462 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: And not to say that like time equals quality. But 463 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: um we need to in the same way that we 464 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: need to broaden our definition of what sex is and 465 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: what satisfaction is, we need to broaden our definition of 466 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: what a healthy sex life is. Sure and no he 467 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: wants to get caught up in obligation sex. I mean 468 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: speaking of dry spells. Sure, everybody goes through them. And 469 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: you know your sex drive is not always going to 470 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: be equal to your partners. I don't think that's news 471 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: to anyone. But yeah, I like shifting the focus to 472 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: quality versus quantity and really opening up those channels of 473 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: communication about what is satisfying. I wonder if there are 474 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: any studies on the kind of maintenance sex with a 475 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: wrench that you got a bed bath and beyond bed death. Um. No, 476 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: that the the idea of kind of the not so 477 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: much obligation sex. It's more obligation to the relationship that 478 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: you know you need to have sex. And I mean 479 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: I I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. I 480 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: think that you can absolutely have maintenance sex as you 481 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: put it, you know, bring on, bring on the tool belt, 482 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: and but be in in good community patition with each 483 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: other that like we know that we're on the same 484 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: page in terms of wanting to maintain sex as an 485 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: important part of our relationship. So it doesn't have to 486 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: be a downer. It doesn't have to be obligation sex. 487 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: It could be like, we just know that doing this 488 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: is an important part of maintenance. Yeah, yeah, just like 489 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: eating your vegetables. I love a good roasted broccoli. That's 490 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: what she said. What does it even me? And one 491 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: term that was introduced in this whole conversation about, you know, 492 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: moving away from that more phallocentric and cyscentric idea of 493 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: what sex is is that we might be better off 494 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: if we adopt a concept of optimal sexuality, which is 495 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: more individually tailored than one size fits all, right, being 496 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: open to doing what feels good and what feels right 497 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: for you and your partner. Yeah, rather than like holding 498 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: yourself to a single standard, which is so unrealistic and 499 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: it does the service to everyone. This is not just 500 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 1: an issue of queer women, but I mean it's potentially 501 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: liberating for for all of us, regardless of like what 502 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: sexual orientation you might be. Um, So I just gotta 503 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: say I was really happy to mythbuss this whole thing. Yes, 504 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: But one thing I am curious to here from listeners 505 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: is whether pop culture reinforces this idea. Um, this was 506 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: something I asked you about because it comes up and 507 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: the kids are all right. Um, it definitely comes up 508 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: between the couple Betty and Tina or bet and Tina. 509 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: Excuse me on the L word. Um, I see it 510 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: somewhat in the character of Harper on Jessica Jones. She's 511 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: the she was in the Matrix, she was what's her 512 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: name in the matrix and she's the lawyer who is 513 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: having a fair like a hot and heavy affair, but 514 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: there's the implication of bed death with her long term partner. Well, 515 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I see what you mean. I'm not 516 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: an expert by any stretch of the imagination. But when 517 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about straight couples and bed death period in general, Like, 518 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: the show that makes me cringe is Togetherness on HBO. 519 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: One of the couples on the show like has massive 520 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: issues around sex and communication and their new parents in 521 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: the whole nine yards, and it's painful to watch the 522 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of real talk in that show. Well, 523 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: I was about to say, I mean, I think it's 524 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: so painful, um to watch because there is a lot 525 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: of truth in that dynamic and the awkwardness of it. 526 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: Um And who was I think it was Hannah Rosen 527 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: over its Slate interviewed um Mark Dupless because it's produced 528 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: by the Dupless brothers. UM, and he got very transparent. 529 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: Um Decide another show where I think lesbian bed death 530 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: it comes up a little bit. Um, but he was 531 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: very transparent about issues that both he and his brother 532 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: have dealt with in their own marriages, especially post kids. Yeah, 533 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: and watching because he was Yeah, he was talking a 534 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: lot too about like just watching their friend group in 535 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: general as people started to have kids and if people 536 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: weren't communicating, well, um, the terrible stuff that they were 537 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: going through where sex ends up not only feeling like 538 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: a chore or an obligation, but it starts to be weaponized, 539 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: Like your attitudes around sex become really prickly and dangerous, 540 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: and it becomes not a thing of like, hey, let's 541 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: just talk about sex and what feels good and let's 542 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: experiment to like isn't that a song? Yeah, yes, it's 543 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: my new my band is let's talk about sex. Oh sure, 544 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: yeah that too. I guess my band can't put it out. UM. 545 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: Copy right infringement. Dang it, that was the name of it. 546 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: Uhmy right infringement, yeah, my band. Yeah, just how scary 547 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: sex can become. And I don't mean like necessarily the 548 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: act of doing it, but even like approaching sex, thinking 549 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: about it, fearing it, treating it as this weight on 550 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: your relationship, and that just is the worst because there 551 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure. I think, regardless of your 552 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, there is and regardless of your gender identity 553 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: there is pressure because we have so long had this 554 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: single standard of how often healthy long term couple should 555 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: be having sex, and if life gets in the way 556 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: and if stressful times happen, you know, and suddenly you 557 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: find that, oh you haven't done it in a while, 558 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: you start thinking about all of the things that you've 559 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: heard about it. You know. I clearly remember the first 560 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: time watching Sex in the City. Not to keep referencing 561 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 1: it this episode, but when Carrie Samantha are talking about 562 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: how you know sex is the barometer of a healthy 563 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: relationship and immediately thinking about like my own boyfriend at 564 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: the time, and being like, oh no, and it's stuck 565 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: in my head for so long. Um. And I also 566 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: want to ask listeners whether we should come back and 567 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: do an episode on sexless relationships and marriages and the 568 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: whole roommates syndrome issue, because this is something that comes 569 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: up not just in marriage but also just straight up 570 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: like cohabitation and dynamic changes. Yeah, that's a huge fear 571 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: and and even just fearing the roommates syndrome is a 572 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: weight and a pressure that makes you potentially overthink what's 573 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: happening in your own relationship. But something that might be 574 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of a comfort and just a healthy 575 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: reminder to women, especially listening women or people who are 576 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 1: in sexual relationships with women, it's to keep in mind 577 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: that there is simply a tidal wave of things that 578 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: can swear a our sexual desire and responsiveness in the 579 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: moment and over time, including but not limited to, things 580 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: like birth control, your medications and oppressants, polycystic ovarian syndrome, 581 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: end demetriosis, vaginizements in violvidenia, that those other conditions that 582 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: can cause painful intercourse, even just our menstrual cycles and menopause, stress, 583 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: pregnancy and childbirth, and of course just feeling panicked that 584 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: your relationship might descend into a sexless quagmire of angst 585 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean that's ah, it doesn't exactly prime you for 586 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: a romantic evening. Yeah, so perhaps we could be better 587 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: served to remember that sexualities, sexual preferences, and libidos are different, 588 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: not better or worse, different, not better or worse. And 589 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: also that maybe, like we've been saying, we should focus 590 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: more on quality over quantity and having fun and having 591 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: good open communication rather than like today's Tuesday, which means 592 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: we've got to take out the trash, I've got to 593 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: pick up the dog and oh yeah, we've got to 594 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: do it at some point. That's some maintenance sex um 595 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: I do, especially when to hear from queer woman listening 596 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: about whether the lesbian bed death stereotype is something that 597 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: is pervasive, like just within your in group culture, you know, 598 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: if it's just a joke or if it is something 599 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 1: that kind of gets in your head, because stereotypes get 600 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: in our heads. Oh yeah, big time. Um. So I'm 601 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: very much looking forward to hearing from all of you 602 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: about this issue. Moms Stuff at how stuff works dot 603 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: com is our email address. You can also tweet us 604 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: at mom stuff podcasts or messages on Facebook, and we've 605 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: got a couple of messages to share with you right now, 606 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: all right, I have a letter here from Scotty in 607 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: response to our Black Romantic Comedies episode. She says, I 608 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: just listened to the last rom common Stallman and I 609 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: loved it. I can't tell you how annoying it is 610 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: when my quote unquote mainstream friends or co workers expect 611 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: me to have seen all the quote classic rom coms 612 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 1: or other movies for that matter, but have no idea 613 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about when I quote or reference movies 614 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: like Best Man or Brown Sugar, which I think Caroline 615 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: accidentally called black Sugar in the episode. Ha ha uh 616 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: sorry my brain, you know. Hey, um, And Scotty writes 617 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: a couple of thoughts. One, this is just a theory, 618 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: but I think another reason quote black movies struggle to 619 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: be marketed as mainstream is because many of them, particularly 620 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: in recent years, allah Tyler Perry or Steve Harvey. Uh, 621 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: there are very strong Christian themes, which leads to some 622 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: at times problematic gender roles. For many Black Americans, religion 623 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: is very important, so it shows up a lot in 624 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,919 Speaker 1: black culture media, which you don't always see in mainstream 625 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: a k a. White rom coms. As a black atheist, 626 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: this can be really frustrating, but there have been and 627 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,320 Speaker 1: continue to be some rom coms or just ROMs that 628 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: are a little more secular with some more complex gender roles, 629 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: especially in the indie world. And two in terms of 630 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: interracial couples, which I strongly vote for an episode on 631 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: in general if you haven't done one already, I wanted 632 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: to point out two awesome examples on the small screen. 633 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: The leads are white, of course, but on both Supergirl 634 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: and The Flash the romantic interests in the will They 635 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: Won't They relationship, who are normally depicted as white in 636 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: the comics, are both black. Candice Pattent on The Flash 637 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: plays Iris West and the delectable macad Brooks as James 638 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: Olsen on the super fun Girl Power, feminist theme action 639 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: packed Supergirl being by Rachel myself with a white husband. 640 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: It is super exciting to see these relationships depicted in 641 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: popular media, and I hope to see more. I would 642 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: also love to see rom comms with people of all colors, 643 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: and I'd like to think as more people of color 644 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: are becoming active in the film industry, we will Thanks 645 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: for the awesomeness you continue to bring to the podcast world. 646 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: Oh and PS, you asked about Denzel and rom coms, 647 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: and he did Mississippi Missala, which is a pretty cute one. Well, 648 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: thanks Scott me so I gotta let her here from 649 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: Jennifer subject line, OMG, I'm a racist movie watcher. Jennifer 650 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: Wrights love me a rom com. Netflix knows this and 651 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: often recommends black rom coms. I never watched them. I 652 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: never consider this bias until now, and I'm so mad 653 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: and disappointed in myself for falling into this Hollywood trap. 654 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: If I would have stopped to think about these movies, 655 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: I most definitely would have decided that they do in 656 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: fact speak to me. Love is love after all. But 657 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: the sad thing is I didn't even spend fifteen seconds 658 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: thinking about them. They were immediately dismissed. I am determined 659 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: to write this racist wrong, and on your advice, have 660 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: added two movies to my musci list, Love and Basketball 661 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: and Something New. I can't wait to see them. Thank 662 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: you for the eye opening podcast. I was upset to 663 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: realize that even being a sweet liberal Canadian like me 664 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: has some racist tendencies, and I'm determined to beat that 665 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: out of myself. Netflix Binge style, Well, thank you so much. 666 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: Jen Um and I would also recommend you watching Love Jones. 667 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: The full movie is on YouTube. I watched it. It's fantastic, 668 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: So listeners, let us know all of your thoughts. Mom. 669 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our email 670 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: address and re links to all of our social media 671 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts 672 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: with our sources so you can learn more about sexuality. 673 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: Head on over to stuff mom Never Told You dot 674 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,320 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 675 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com