WEBVTT - Sanjay & Rebecca Gupta 0:00:14.836 --> 0:00:29.516 Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlo Thomas, and 0:00:29.636 --> 0:00:32.556 we're going on a series of double dates to find 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:41.036 out what makes a marriage last. That old expression is 0:00:41.076 --> 0:00:44.156 there a doctor in the house was never more fitting 0:00:44.236 --> 0:00:47.676 than one afternoon when Marlow and I had the doctor 0:00:47.716 --> 0:00:51.556 in our house. Rebecca and doctor Sanjay Gupta were in 0:00:51.636 --> 0:00:54.236 town from Atlanta, so they dropped by our apartment to 0:00:54.356 --> 0:00:57.836 talk marriage. From the first moment they walked in, you 0:00:57.876 --> 0:01:02.076 could feel their calm compatibility. They have three daughters and 0:01:02.156 --> 0:01:04.756 a busy life, and they do a lot of philanthropic 0:01:04.796 --> 0:01:09.276 work together. It's a relationship that's built on different cultural backgrounds. 0:01:09.596 --> 0:01:13.236 Unlike Rebecca, whose family is Scandinavian, Sanjay grew up with 0:01:13.276 --> 0:01:16.876 a distinct sense of being an outsider as an Indian 0:01:16.916 --> 0:01:20.676 American in a small Michigan town. I don't think people 0:01:20.716 --> 0:01:23.396 knew what to make of Indians. That was the only Indian, 0:01:23.636 --> 0:01:27.276 you know, really there, So there was no there was 0:01:27.316 --> 0:01:31.396 no history with I was obviously different colored skin, had 0:01:31.396 --> 0:01:33.676 a funny name, you know, all that sort of stuff. 0:01:33.676 --> 0:01:36.196 But other than that, there was no There was no 0:01:36.236 --> 0:01:40.796 institutional prejudice that I that I experienced with Like with 0:01:40.796 --> 0:01:43.036 with Rebecca's family obviously any of that sort of stuff. 0:01:43.036 --> 0:01:46.276 There was other prejudices just because you were different. That 0:01:46.396 --> 0:01:53.116 was yeah, I mean, you know where I grew up, 0:01:53.556 --> 0:01:56.236 Especially if you're the only person that looks like me, 0:01:56.596 --> 0:02:00.556 you tend to then take on the characteristic and other 0:02:00.556 --> 0:02:04.316 people's minds of every sort of you know, fringe group. 0:02:04.436 --> 0:02:07.276 So you know, for for example, the Iran hostage crisis 0:02:07.316 --> 0:02:11.236 was happening in nineteen seventy nine. You remember Jimmy Carter 0:02:11.316 --> 0:02:13.996 was president and and um, I was ten years old 0:02:14.796 --> 0:02:17.396 and I'm not Iranian. But you know, it didn't matter. 0:02:17.516 --> 0:02:20.636 You were suddenly somebody else. You know, you were an 0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:23.596 outsider during that time. So I remember that being a 0:02:23.636 --> 0:02:27.236 really hard time, the Iran hostage crisis, for because it 0:02:27.276 --> 0:02:29.796 was such a such a big thing in the news 0:02:30.236 --> 0:02:34.476 and and every day it was something you know, um, 0:02:34.516 --> 0:02:36.236 and you know, it didn't make sense for me to 0:02:36.236 --> 0:02:38.636 remind people that wasn't Iranian. It kind of was missing 0:02:38.676 --> 0:02:42.356 the point, right, But so so yeah, there was there was. 0:02:42.396 --> 0:02:45.196 There was a fair amount of bullying. I think that 0:02:45.316 --> 0:02:50.436 happened you know, younger younger years in particular. Well, what's 0:02:50.476 --> 0:02:54.196 interesting is I think Detroit is unique in that it has. 0:02:54.716 --> 0:02:58.676 That's how it kind of it's a huge immigration community, 0:02:58.836 --> 0:03:03.236 but everybody stays in like their little neighborhood. The largest 0:03:03.276 --> 0:03:06.516 Arabic population outside of Saudi Arabia, and it's in Dearborn, 0:03:06.596 --> 0:03:08.956 I think, right, dear h that was born, dear boy, 0:03:09.196 --> 0:03:14.516 that right? Yeah, Suci, I imagine that Sanjay's childhood experience 0:03:14.556 --> 0:03:18.596 would cause this couple to have completely different points of view. 0:03:18.916 --> 0:03:21.756 That's what I would have thought too. We kind of 0:03:21.756 --> 0:03:25.956 grew up similar, so we have very similar values. We 0:03:26.076 --> 0:03:28.996 grew up similar. Yeah. See it's hard to say that 0:03:29.036 --> 0:03:32.196 with his parents being Indian and mind not, I guess, 0:03:32.316 --> 0:03:35.956 but um, we both came from small towns in Michigan, 0:03:36.236 --> 0:03:40.516 and both came from parents of like, you know, working, 0:03:40.756 --> 0:03:45.516 you know, white collar parents kind of. My father worked 0:03:45.516 --> 0:03:47.996 for Ford Motor Company, just like his parents worked for 0:03:47.996 --> 0:03:52.316 Ford Motor Company. Um, you know, they, all of our 0:03:52.356 --> 0:03:54.956 parents just their one desire was us to have a 0:03:54.996 --> 0:03:58.436 great education and then they made all of them made 0:03:58.436 --> 0:04:02.236 sacrifices for that to happen. And we kind of have 0:04:02.596 --> 0:04:06.436 that in common. We we feel that that's important when 0:04:06.476 --> 0:04:08.836 we have other I mean, we both grew up drinking 0:04:08.836 --> 0:04:12.876 theme in powdered milk, so we have things that were 0:04:12.956 --> 0:04:17.916 in common for us. You're Rebecca Olsen. Yeah, that sounds 0:04:17.996 --> 0:04:21.836 like a character in a family sitcom. I think it 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:24.836 was a character in a couple of books. But Tom 0:04:24.916 --> 0:04:31.676 Sawyer and a few others before that. Wow, that was 0:04:31.716 --> 0:04:38.076 a great winning Was that okay? With your parents? My Um, 0:04:38.116 --> 0:04:41.836 it's interesting. I think that there was a deep desire, 0:04:41.996 --> 0:04:46.196 especially for immigrants, to have their children marry within the 0:04:46.236 --> 0:04:49.436 same culture. My parents were a little different. It was interesting. 0:04:49.636 --> 0:04:53.916 My my mom was from pakist what is now Pakistan. 0:04:55.316 --> 0:04:57.716 She fled during the partition, so she was a refugee 0:04:57.756 --> 0:05:02.996 child for the first twelve fifteen years of her life. Um, 0:05:03.036 --> 0:05:06.196 and my dad was was in India, so they're both Indian, 0:05:06.676 --> 0:05:10.396 but but for my dad's side of the family, she 0:05:10.516 --> 0:05:14.236 represented a very different part of India, alm so different 0:05:14.316 --> 0:05:17.956 that it was like a completely different country, completely different culture. 0:05:18.836 --> 0:05:21.876 And when they got married, neither one of their parents 0:05:22.076 --> 0:05:27.156 attended the wedding. Oh the well, yeah, I mean they 0:05:27.236 --> 0:05:29.476 just did. They didn't support it. They didn't support the 0:05:29.476 --> 0:05:33.396 wedding and well that day in each they both would 0:05:33.396 --> 0:05:37.036 have had arranged marriages and instead his parents met in 0:05:37.076 --> 0:05:41.796 the United States outside of their own parents, and because 0:05:41.836 --> 0:05:45.756 they met in the United States and not some neither 0:05:45.796 --> 0:05:48.116 of them had their own parents arranged who they were 0:05:48.116 --> 0:05:50.396 going to marry. Both of their own parents were kind 0:05:50.436 --> 0:05:52.396 of like, m this isn't what we set up and 0:05:52.436 --> 0:05:54.916 this is in our traditions, So they were a little 0:05:54.916 --> 0:05:57.476 bit against his parents were pretting married. So your parents 0:05:57.516 --> 0:06:01.516 married in this country, people immigrated here. They both immigrated 0:06:01.956 --> 0:06:05.756 and getting married here a love marriage as opposed to 0:06:05.756 --> 0:06:09.476 in arranged marriages. Rebecca said, it was very unusual. I mean, I, 0:06:09.596 --> 0:06:12.276 you know, in a bigger deal over time. I didn't. 0:06:12.516 --> 0:06:15.636 Now I've met tons of people who are my contemporaries 0:06:15.676 --> 0:06:20.996 Indians whose parents, all of them had arranged marriages. So 0:06:21.916 --> 0:06:24.236 we haven't found anybody else that sort of gotten married 0:06:24.236 --> 0:06:26.196 the way that my parents did. And as a result, 0:06:26.756 --> 0:06:30.276 my friends, especially my friends, who were thinking about getting married, 0:06:30.996 --> 0:06:33.676 especially if it was someone who was not Indian, it 0:06:33.756 --> 0:06:35.676 was always my parents that they would go to to 0:06:35.676 --> 0:06:38.956 talk to. They became those parents for you know, all 0:06:38.996 --> 0:06:42.116 my friends who wanted Okay, you guys did this sort 0:06:42.116 --> 0:06:46.356 of very radical thing by having a love marriage, and 0:06:46.436 --> 0:06:48.916 you weren't even from the same part of India, the 0:06:48.956 --> 0:06:52.596 same cast, the same background. How did it work? And 0:06:52.676 --> 0:06:56.636 so when we were talking about getting married while there, 0:06:56.636 --> 0:07:00.196 I think still a desire on their part for me 0:07:00.276 --> 0:07:03.356 to marry somebody Indian. They were much more that they 0:07:03.356 --> 0:07:05.716 had lived through that, they went through it. Although I 0:07:05.796 --> 0:07:08.836 say that at the beginning they still really wanted him 0:07:08.836 --> 0:07:13.836 to marry somebody India, right and um, and then while 0:07:13.836 --> 0:07:16.196 we were dating and they realized that it was that 0:07:16.236 --> 0:07:19.956 we were more likely to be together, then they started 0:07:19.996 --> 0:07:22.636 to you know, be more accepting of it. Did you 0:07:22.676 --> 0:07:27.556 have Indian girlfriends before then? Um? Yeah, I did any thing, 0:07:27.636 --> 0:07:32.076 nothing too too serious, but yeah, um, and it was 0:07:32.076 --> 0:07:35.436 all in college, you know, it wasn't anything earlier, so 0:07:35.836 --> 0:07:40.436 these weren't necessarily you know, my dad was funny. He Um, 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:43.636 he said, I don't want to meet any of these 0:07:43.676 --> 0:07:47.316 girls unless you're going to marry him. That's basically what 0:07:47.356 --> 0:07:49.996 he told me, and my mom sort of followed that, 0:07:50.276 --> 0:07:52.076 and you know, it was in line with that. So 0:07:52.596 --> 0:07:55.356 they're not frivolous people. They're you know, they're they're engineers, 0:07:55.476 --> 0:07:59.476 they're they're they're mathematics people. They didn't talk about love, 0:07:59.636 --> 0:08:02.476 they didn't talk about marriage that so you know, if 0:08:02.516 --> 0:08:05.316 I brought home a girlfriend and I was like, look, 0:08:05.996 --> 0:08:08.116 are you marrying her? Is that why we're meeting her 0:08:08.236 --> 0:08:12.076 or not? What's the point? Yeah, what's the point? Yeah, 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:14.556 it really was. What's the point? They didn't. There wasn't 0:08:14.596 --> 0:08:17.956 a lot of they're not a particularly emotional couple. I mean, 0:08:17.996 --> 0:08:20.236 they're loving, but they're not very emotional in this regard. 0:08:20.316 --> 0:08:22.396 So my dad still shook my hand, I mean every 0:08:22.396 --> 0:08:25.636 single time. There was no hugs until I came along. 0:08:25.836 --> 0:08:28.276 And now if I don't hug him when I'm walking 0:08:28.356 --> 0:08:31.956 the door, he's like, where's my hug. So it's sweet 0:08:31.996 --> 0:08:35.036 how they've kind of warmed up to part and part 0:08:35.036 --> 0:08:37.516 of that I think is like my mom's parents and 0:08:37.636 --> 0:08:40.596 my dad, and my dad's parents and my mom, they 0:08:40.636 --> 0:08:43.396 didn't because again there was this friction that always existed, 0:08:43.956 --> 0:08:46.196 so he could feel it as soon when it for me, 0:08:46.276 --> 0:08:48.036 when it was when the grandparents were over, it was 0:08:48.076 --> 0:08:51.756 a palpable tension and there was a lot of nice 0:08:51.796 --> 0:08:53.596 to meet you, and I, you know, shaking my hands 0:08:54.156 --> 0:08:56.076 because it wasn't arranged. And then they felt like they 0:08:56.076 --> 0:08:59.556 were very different backgrounds and and I don't think that 0:08:59.636 --> 0:09:03.316 my my dad's parents probably ever, even until the very end, 0:09:04.076 --> 0:09:07.556 fully accepted my mom. Wow, my mom was family was 0:09:07.556 --> 0:09:10.676 not very devout. My dad's mom was probably the most 0:09:10.716 --> 0:09:16.116 devout Hindu out of all four grandparents. Um. She was 0:09:16.156 --> 0:09:18.956 a Jane, which is a very sort of a more 0:09:19.036 --> 0:09:22.956 strict Hindu, you know, tenant. But I think, you know, 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:26.476 just because my mom's parents were, they were fleeing, they were, 0:09:26.596 --> 0:09:29.396 you know, fleeing persecution, and you know, the idea of 0:09:29.636 --> 0:09:32.196 religion was a bit of an indulgence. I think for them. 0:09:32.316 --> 0:09:34.436 You know, we had a little we had a little 0:09:35.316 --> 0:09:38.996 deity in our house growing up, but you know, there 0:09:38.996 --> 0:09:41.596 weren't any temples, so it wasn't like we could really 0:09:41.676 --> 0:09:44.916 be devout in the United States at that time in 0:09:44.956 --> 0:09:49.876 the sixties. But they had experienced religious persecution in Pakistan 0:09:49.996 --> 0:09:53.116 for sure, causant to leave that. They were definitely more 0:09:53.396 --> 0:09:57.916 reserved about showing any kind of religious What about your parents, 0:09:57.956 --> 0:10:01.556 how did they feel about you're marrying a Hindu person? Um? Well, 0:10:01.716 --> 0:10:06.916 good question. Um my dad had passed away long before 0:10:07.116 --> 0:10:10.476 him and I started to date me. He probably, Um, 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:13.916 who knows how he would react anything. We'd probably have 0:10:13.956 --> 0:10:19.876 been fine by the time we married. Um my mom 0:10:20.276 --> 0:10:23.436 would have been. I mean like he'd gotten like you know, 0:10:23.876 --> 0:10:27.116 he was um, he was he was finished and Swedish, 0:10:27.116 --> 0:10:29.116 So it wasn't that he he was just like, you know, 0:10:29.236 --> 0:10:31.276 we stay at home and we do our things and 0:10:31.316 --> 0:10:34.876 we wasn't until they retired that they suddenly developed this 0:10:35.916 --> 0:10:38.756 huge social life, right, And I think my dad probably 0:10:38.756 --> 0:10:42.636 would have had been very similar except for the fact 0:10:42.676 --> 0:10:45.956 that he passed away before you know, before he even retired, 0:10:46.276 --> 0:10:48.796 when he passed fifty, and would have About your mom, 0:10:48.796 --> 0:10:50.916 how did she feel about san Jay? Oh? She she 0:10:51.036 --> 0:10:54.796 loved him. She she My mom's just fig sweetheart. She 0:10:54.916 --> 0:10:58.196 loves she. She thinks he's so smart and fascinating and 0:10:58.516 --> 0:11:00.916 even to this day she's like, well, I want to 0:11:00.916 --> 0:11:03.916 know where he is as I worry about him, and 0:11:03.916 --> 0:11:07.636 and she's very like like humble and chi around him. 0:11:07.876 --> 0:11:12.196 So it's kind of sweet. Right. My mother was Italian, 0:11:12.356 --> 0:11:15.276 she's gone. My father was Lebanese and they were the 0:11:15.356 --> 0:11:18.396 children of arranged marriages, you know, but both both my 0:11:18.476 --> 0:11:24.596 grandparents were arranged marriages. But my mother didn't like Irish people. Yeah, 0:11:24.276 --> 0:11:26.876 I read a huge article about that. Did she live 0:11:26.956 --> 0:11:30.876 here in New York and into Michigan Detroit in Detroit 0:11:31.676 --> 0:11:34.796 in a sort of lower middle class and mean, her 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:38.556 father was Italian and they had two trucks and they 0:11:38.556 --> 0:11:41.796 sold produce off their trucks. So there were five kids. 0:11:41.796 --> 0:11:44.676 They went to school, they had an education, and my 0:11:44.756 --> 0:11:46.996 grandmother stayed home. But she was a singer and got 0:11:47.036 --> 0:11:49.956 little job singing in the synagogue or the church or 0:11:49.956 --> 0:11:54.316 whoever would have her. She would love to sing. But 0:11:54.316 --> 0:11:59.116 but in those poor neighborhoods, you know, the Jews had 0:11:59.156 --> 0:12:01.516 their area and the Irish their area, and the Italian 0:12:01.556 --> 0:12:05.316 said their area, and so the Irish were considered sort 0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:09.716 of the lower class people and the shandy Irish. So 0:12:09.996 --> 0:12:11.516 when I first told my mother I was going out 0:12:11.516 --> 0:12:14.276 with Phil Donahue, she said, oh, he's Irish, and it 0:12:14.396 --> 0:12:16.556 was like my mother had a thing there. And then 0:12:16.916 --> 0:12:19.396 well then she got to know him and she loved him. Well, 0:12:19.396 --> 0:12:22.036 he won her over, he said, with his Irish malarkey. 0:12:22.076 --> 0:12:25.396 You know, he won her over. So how did you meet? 0:12:26.636 --> 0:12:31.076 I did we meet at a bar? As a classic 0:12:31.116 --> 0:12:35.996 American story, mutual friends introduced us in college. Yeah, we 0:12:36.036 --> 0:12:39.316 went to the University of Michigan. Yeah, and I think 0:12:39.316 --> 0:12:42.436 when we met we were both dating someone else at 0:12:42.436 --> 0:12:46.316 the time. We definitely had more of a shared experience 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:48.596 right away. We just had a lot that we had 0:12:48.636 --> 0:12:52.756 in common talk about right out of the gate, and 0:12:52.996 --> 0:12:55.396 you were thinking about I mean, I know we were 0:12:55.396 --> 0:12:57.116 taking she was taking a lot of science classes. I 0:12:57.116 --> 0:13:00.556 remember that because she was really good at it, and 0:13:00.596 --> 0:13:02.156 I was saying I needed to get my act together. 0:13:02.236 --> 0:13:04.996 I was going to go to medical school. He says, 0:13:07.476 --> 0:13:24.876 we'll have more ter a quick break. We're back to 0:13:24.916 --> 0:13:29.116 our conversation with san Jay and Rebecca Gupta. It seems 0:13:29.116 --> 0:13:32.556 these two have found the path to harmony together, but 0:13:32.676 --> 0:13:35.956 as we all know, spending a lifetime with another person 0:13:36.556 --> 0:13:40.156 requires some doing, especially when it comes to dealing with 0:13:40.196 --> 0:13:44.716 each other's differences. You're absolutely right that there's accommodations that 0:13:44.796 --> 0:13:49.316 you have to make. And like, I'm a really neat person. 0:13:50.076 --> 0:13:53.436 I'm not aligning people who are not neat. But but 0:13:53.516 --> 0:13:56.036 I think that for me, you know, it's just it's 0:13:56.276 --> 0:14:03.956 it's just how I am and she's not. It's not 0:14:04.036 --> 0:14:06.756 that I'm not a neat nick. There's just there's only 0:14:06.836 --> 0:14:09.076 so much time in dating get everything in the world. 0:14:09.596 --> 0:14:12.476 His office is like nothing on it but the one 0:14:12.556 --> 0:14:16.436 little computer, because his life is it's like on the computer. 0:14:16.516 --> 0:14:18.956 He can store everything there, he writes everything there, maybe 0:14:18.956 --> 0:14:20.876 a glass of water. I mean that it's just just 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:24.676 and my office is a constant mess, and there's everybody's 0:14:24.676 --> 0:14:26.476 in and out of my office and they trip over 0:14:26.596 --> 0:14:28.556 stuff and knock it all over the place. And he 0:14:28.676 --> 0:14:31.116 walks in. He's like, my mind is gonna I'm gonna 0:14:31.156 --> 0:14:33.036 lose it. Like, just shut the door. That's how we 0:14:33.116 --> 0:14:37.476 can get along. Visceral sort of pain as I and 0:14:37.516 --> 0:14:41.036 she says, I can't find something, IM go really, but 0:14:41.076 --> 0:14:42.676 I was What I was going to say, though, is 0:14:42.676 --> 0:14:48.476 that the accommodation are all offset by trust to me, 0:14:49.436 --> 0:14:51.796 you know, And that's probably the the the heart of 0:14:51.836 --> 0:14:56.076 the whole thing is that, like I don't trust anybody 0:14:56.116 --> 0:15:00.756 more than I trust Rebecca to have my best interests, 0:15:01.196 --> 0:15:03.916 and that can be with regard to you know, our 0:15:03.956 --> 0:15:07.076 financial stuff. But also like I don't know what to 0:15:07.116 --> 0:15:09.716 do here. I'm dealing with something I'm not sure what 0:15:09.756 --> 0:15:12.476 the right answer is and there's no absolute right answer, 0:15:12.836 --> 0:15:16.156 but there's probably a right answer for me. And so 0:15:16.196 --> 0:15:19.476 who do I like, who would who would be able 0:15:19.516 --> 0:15:21.996 to answer that? And I think my parents can't answer 0:15:21.996 --> 0:15:25.796 that because ultimately they they're incapable, I think, fundamentally, of 0:15:25.836 --> 0:15:29.396 seeing things from outside their vantage point. They can't put 0:15:29.436 --> 0:15:32.076 themselves outside their own shoes. It's not a bad thing, 0:15:32.076 --> 0:15:35.716 it's just who they are. She can. I can tolerate 0:15:35.716 --> 0:15:37.956 the messy office, and I can tolerate because I come 0:15:37.996 --> 0:15:40.556 home at the end of the day and I'm dealing 0:15:40.556 --> 0:15:43.076 with stuff. And it was always me. I was a 0:15:43.116 --> 0:15:46.036 pretty solitary creature, and then all of a sudden, I 0:15:46.316 --> 0:15:49.796 started like dabbling in this idea of letting someone else in. 0:15:51.156 --> 0:15:54.556 She's really good at it, and I trusted her. When 0:15:54.596 --> 0:15:57.876 you have a big argument, there's one of you pout 0:15:58.036 --> 0:16:04.356 or false silent or yes he really end I mean 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:07.476 he's still mad about me for buying him a hand sandwich, 0:16:07.676 --> 0:16:10.196 like you know, fifteen years ago or something. I mean, 0:16:10.276 --> 0:16:14.396 some big arguments on and on, and then they'd become 0:16:14.636 --> 0:16:17.316 even though they might be like poking at a at 0:16:17.316 --> 0:16:20.636 a splinter, but still there, they almost become kind of 0:16:20.796 --> 0:16:24.276 you know, like a running joke or something. We've had 0:16:24.316 --> 0:16:27.156 big arguments, for sure, and I think the longest they've 0:16:27.276 --> 0:16:31.676 lasted is probably a couple three days. In the sense 0:16:31.716 --> 0:16:34.396 that not not that we're at it for a couple 0:16:34.436 --> 0:16:37.676 three days, but we're definitely still pissed off, both of us. 0:16:38.036 --> 0:16:42.316 And and but you know, um, I came from a 0:16:42.396 --> 0:16:46.356 really pretty sedate household. I could probably count on one 0:16:46.396 --> 0:16:48.476 hand the number of times it was really yelling as 0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:50.236 when as a child, when I grew up, and I 0:16:50.276 --> 0:16:53.796 can remember those times because they were so jarring, you know. 0:16:54.636 --> 0:16:58.116 So it's not really the style I think for us 0:16:58.236 --> 0:17:00.276 to have like a big argument, the sense that it's 0:17:00.316 --> 0:17:04.916 explosive in any way. But I will get upset. I'm 0:17:04.996 --> 0:17:08.076 much more transparent about it now. I would hold it 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:12.476 in expect her to figure it out, And then I 0:17:12.516 --> 0:17:14.396 realized at some point that was a waste of time, 0:17:14.436 --> 0:17:16.556 because why am I waiting for her to figure it? 0:17:16.596 --> 0:17:18.156 I could just tell her and you know it's not 0:17:18.996 --> 0:17:20.676 then at least they can get it off my chest. 0:17:21.956 --> 0:17:23.956 What do you think you were waiting? That's an interesting 0:17:23.996 --> 0:17:26.876 thing because I was being passive aggressive, like if she 0:17:26.916 --> 0:17:29.396 didn't figure it out, I could just do even longer 0:17:29.836 --> 0:17:32.196 you know about it, you know, like I was being 0:17:32.236 --> 0:17:35.476 feeling vindicated that she didn't even know why I would 0:17:35.476 --> 0:17:38.356 be upset, Like how could you know I've been married 0:17:38.396 --> 0:17:40.516 how long? And you don't even know this thing about me, 0:17:40.636 --> 0:17:43.996 you know, so there would be that that part of it, 0:17:46.036 --> 0:17:47.596 I will say, and I think this is a little 0:17:47.596 --> 0:17:51.556 bit of a difference between men and women, although you know, 0:17:51.636 --> 0:17:53.396 I can't obviously speak for all men or all women, 0:17:53.436 --> 0:17:55.596 but you know, I have friends, but I don't have 0:17:55.636 --> 0:17:58.156 a lot of friends that I would talk to about 0:17:58.196 --> 0:18:00.636 that kind of stuff. So she was the person that 0:18:00.636 --> 0:18:03.356 I would talk to. There were times too, and I 0:18:03.356 --> 0:18:05.676 would look at him and I'd say, can you not 0:18:05.796 --> 0:18:07.436 being greet because I need to talk to my best 0:18:07.476 --> 0:18:10.516 friend right now to how to solve this problem, and 0:18:10.716 --> 0:18:13.156 that would help him go, Okay, Yes, we need to 0:18:13.516 --> 0:18:17.276 kind of shift gears into from the emotional we're upset 0:18:17.316 --> 0:18:20.196 about whatever it is that has caused us to be upset, 0:18:20.556 --> 0:18:23.596 to the intellectual what are we going to do about it? Now? 0:18:24.676 --> 0:18:26.996 It's really hard for me to be mad at him 0:18:27.036 --> 0:18:30.076 for very long because he always makes me laugh and 0:18:30.156 --> 0:18:36.076 he's so smart that it really, you know, keeps me going, 0:18:36.236 --> 0:18:39.996 makes me constantly be on my toes, which I love that. 0:18:41.236 --> 0:18:44.076 What do you think are some of the A couple 0:18:44.116 --> 0:18:46.156 of the things that you have to have in order 0:18:46.636 --> 0:18:51.556 to have a marriage, last genuine respect, you know, I 0:18:51.596 --> 0:18:55.436 think everything else follows from that probably and you know 0:18:55.556 --> 0:18:58.956 there's people who you might really like and even love, 0:18:59.036 --> 0:19:01.236 but maybe when you really think about it, you don't 0:19:02.276 --> 0:19:06.476 respect that in every single way. And then trust for me, 0:19:07.036 --> 0:19:08.596 you know, I don't know. May maybe it's because I 0:19:09.156 --> 0:19:12.036 didn't have a lot of people that I trusted and 0:19:12.436 --> 0:19:15.756 so I mean as a child or as a child 0:19:15.796 --> 0:19:17.756 and even you know, I mean when you go through 0:19:18.156 --> 0:19:22.916 um MED school and it's it's it's such a competitive environment, 0:19:23.076 --> 0:19:26.916 you know. Um, you know where where I started, I 0:19:26.956 --> 0:19:30.196 was accepted into medical school out of high school. So 0:19:30.236 --> 0:19:32.516 it was a program that did that and everyone was 0:19:32.836 --> 0:19:35.636 very some of them are my good friends now, but 0:19:35.676 --> 0:19:40.356 it was very competitive environment. Um. You know, people sabotaged 0:19:40.556 --> 0:19:43.636 each other's experiments and no one was rooting for each other. 0:19:43.756 --> 0:19:47.716 Everyone was rooting for themselves, and so trust in that 0:19:47.836 --> 0:19:50.436 environment was challenging. I think once I got into training 0:19:50.476 --> 0:19:53.036 and nursergery training, it was it was better because now 0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:56.916 we were all sort of a more shared experience. But well, 0:19:56.956 --> 0:20:00.716 what is what are yours? So? Um? So I was 0:20:00.756 --> 0:20:03.916 a family law attorney, so I represented people and divorces 0:20:04.036 --> 0:20:07.596 or people who were at that point where their relationships 0:20:07.676 --> 0:20:11.436 were going the wrong way, and I can tend the 0:20:11.556 --> 0:20:14.516 number one thing that causes people to divorce from my 0:20:14.556 --> 0:20:20.596 experience was resentment. And resentment can if when resentment starts, 0:20:20.836 --> 0:20:23.476 then all the other things go. When you know, when 0:20:24.036 --> 0:20:26.956 like if he's working really hard and making all the 0:20:26.996 --> 0:20:29.956 money and I'm you know, and he resents that, you know, 0:20:30.156 --> 0:20:33.956 I'm not contributing to that, or if I'm with like 0:20:34.556 --> 0:20:37.916 babies crying and you know, having no sleep and I 0:20:37.956 --> 0:20:40.676 start to resent him for being on the road and 0:20:40.716 --> 0:20:44.236 getting eight hours of sleep or something, and resentment really 0:20:44.596 --> 0:20:49.356 only can be cured through communication before the resentment builds. 0:20:49.636 --> 0:20:51.436 And I have to say there have been a few 0:20:51.476 --> 0:20:54.396 times when I will say to him, I'm working way 0:20:54.436 --> 0:20:56.996 too hard and I and I need you to notice. 0:20:57.396 --> 0:20:59.996 I think that's a great point. I haven't heard that before, 0:21:00.556 --> 0:21:06.076 that you notice something that is making you get to 0:21:06.116 --> 0:21:08.876 the brink of resentful and so you know the only 0:21:08.876 --> 0:21:11.876 way out of that is to communicate. And he works 0:21:11.956 --> 0:21:15.476 so hard and making sure that he is home, you know, 0:21:15.636 --> 0:21:18.516 he's set up he operates every Monday just so that 0:21:18.596 --> 0:21:22.316 he's home every weekend, so that way that he's always 0:21:22.356 --> 0:21:25.076 there for games. Yeah, do you do stuff without the 0:21:25.316 --> 0:21:29.676 kids together. Yeah, yeah, I mean, dude, we'll do trips. Yeah, 0:21:29.836 --> 0:21:31.916 we have a we have a group of friends that 0:21:31.956 --> 0:21:36.036 we travel with. Uh, you know, once a year, maybe 0:21:36.036 --> 0:21:37.876 twice a year, depending. And then and then Rebecca and 0:21:37.916 --> 0:21:40.316 I will we'll go out on date nights. You know, 0:21:40.396 --> 0:21:43.076 we'll just go out to dinner. Um, I just like 0:21:43.236 --> 0:21:46.156 to go more so now you know that the kids are, 0:21:46.756 --> 0:21:49.956 you know, they're more independent. Yeah. If there was a 0:21:50.036 --> 0:21:53.236 young couple who are about to be married, or thinking 0:21:53.236 --> 0:21:56.276 about getting married, or on the fence about getting married, 0:21:56.636 --> 0:21:58.916 what do you think you would want to pass on? 0:22:01.116 --> 0:22:04.316 Nothing in life is perfect? And I think you know, 0:22:04.396 --> 0:22:07.996 perfect is often the enemy of a very very good 0:22:08.476 --> 0:22:10.836 and and I you know, we say that in the 0:22:10.836 --> 0:22:12.876 operating room a lot. I just want to take out 0:22:12.916 --> 0:22:15.236 this last piece of tumor, but it's right against something 0:22:15.276 --> 0:22:18.196 important And if you do that, you could sacrifice all 0:22:18.196 --> 0:22:20.236 the incredible work you've just been doing for the last 0:22:20.236 --> 0:22:23.316 several hours in search of perfection. I think it's the 0:22:23.356 --> 0:22:26.716 same thing in marriage. I mean, you know, once you've committed, 0:22:27.916 --> 0:22:32.196 then being in search of perfection can be a destructive force. 0:22:32.676 --> 0:22:35.956 And that's something that I think I learned and I 0:22:35.996 --> 0:22:38.836 would pass that on and we do pinch ourselves every 0:22:38.916 --> 0:22:41.876 day and just think we get really lucky. You know, 0:22:42.636 --> 0:22:45.756 if you can internalize that, I think that's a really 0:22:45.836 --> 0:22:52.636 powerful force. That's Sanjay and Rebecca Gupta. I can't decide 0:22:52.676 --> 0:22:56.116 what impressed me more how nice they are or how 0:22:56.156 --> 0:22:59.756 smart they are, but more important, they have a quiet 0:22:59.836 --> 0:23:03.036 and deep understanding of each other. Now we can say 0:23:03.076 --> 0:23:05.996 we know a doctor who makes house calls all the 0:23:06.036 --> 0:23:09.756 way from Atlanta and brings his wife until next time. 0:23:09.836 --> 0:23:13.356 I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlo Thomas. You guys have 0:23:13.436 --> 0:23:20.756 been great. Yeah, we appreciate the conversation. It's fun. Double 0:23:20.836 --> 0:23:24.316 Day is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was 0:23:24.356 --> 0:23:28.516 created by US and produced by Sarah Lily. Michael Bahari 0:23:28.916 --> 0:23:32.596 is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be 0:23:32.716 --> 0:23:38.396 You by Stellwagen, Simfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers, 0:23:38.436 --> 0:23:43.996 along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special 0:23:44.036 --> 0:23:49.556 thanks to Jacob Wiseberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, 0:23:50.036 --> 0:23:56.636 Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostek, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, 0:23:56.836 --> 0:24:01.556 and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember 0:24:01.596 --> 0:24:17.316 to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.