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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Trump's economic approval rating falls to

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Speaker 1: thirty seven percent. Still seems high to me. We have

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Speaker 1: such a great show for you today. The nation's own

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Speaker 1: Geed here stops by to talk about Trump and the

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Speaker 1: art of the deal in case you're wondering they are

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Speaker 1: not good deals. Then we'll talk to the Center for

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Speaker 1: American Progress's own Brendan Duke about our port slowdown shipping

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Speaker 1: and how we are losing the trade war with China.

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Speaker 1: As a special bonus, we'll talk to substacks the Jim

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Speaker 1: Acosta shows Jim Acosta about Trump backing down on tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Molly, big news out of Illinois, and usually big news

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Speaker 2: is not retirements. But we have both Dick Durbin, who's

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Speaker 2: one of the senior Mostdems in the Senate, and Repgentik House.

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Speaker 2: He both and that's of their retirement in a single day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it looks like a problem, but is actually pretty good.

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Speaker 1: So here's what's happening. We have a lot of older

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Speaker 1: members of Congress. This has been something that Democrats, Democrats

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Speaker 1: are nice and they're good and they're friendly, and so

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Speaker 1: they don't make each other retire. And that's why we

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Speaker 1: have gotten into a lot of problems with these older

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Speaker 1: members who get sick or die. We had two members

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Speaker 1: who died this year in the House, and the Republicans

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Speaker 1: in the Republican governors aren't letting their be elections to

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Speaker 1: fill the seats. This is actually a real problem. What

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Speaker 1: is very interesting and I think important is that we

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Speaker 1: are seeing candidates run despite this and this story Katabuzagala,

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Speaker 1: she's a young TikToker, very good at communicating. She decided

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Speaker 1: to run against her local rep who is a woman

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Speaker 1: called Jen Schakowski, who has been in office since nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight, so that's twenty six years she did this,

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Speaker 1: and actually Shakowski has dropped out. So this is a

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Speaker 1: really good sign that when these younger people sometimes primary

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Speaker 1: a candidate, it works. And the truth is, one of

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Speaker 1: the big problems Democrats are having right now is having

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Speaker 1: these members who just hang on for a long time

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Speaker 1: and who aren't good communicators or who don't really have

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Speaker 1: the bandwidth to do the job. And there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who have done a lot of great

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Speaker 1: service for this country. And it's not that we don't

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Speaker 1: love them, it's just that right now, if America is

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Speaker 1: in an emergency, which I think all of us feel

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Speaker 1: that way right this creeping authoritarianism is a real thing.

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Speaker 1: If America is in an emergency, then we need Democrats

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Speaker 1: are ready to meet an emergency.

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Speaker 2: I think Rokana put it really well today that we

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Speaker 2: should always be welcoming these primaries. He said he's probably

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Speaker 2: gonna be the only Congressman who says it, but he's like,

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Speaker 2: these are not lifetime appointments. And I applaud Rokana for

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Speaker 2: saying that.

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Speaker 1: He's right, We really really really need this and it's

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Speaker 1: an emergency, and so we need our electeds to be

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Speaker 1: able to meet this moment. And Rocanna is right and

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Speaker 1: this is the right thing. And we should also celebrate

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Speaker 1: the members who are retiring. So we have Durbin who's retiring.

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Speaker 1: He has done incredible work. We're so grateful for his service.

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Speaker 1: He's retiring. Now we have a bunch of people running

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Speaker 1: for that seat. It's Illinois. We have it's a safe

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Speaker 1: Democratic seat. Lauren under What is going to run. But

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Speaker 1: also Raja Krishna Morti has already almost twenty million dollars

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Speaker 1: and is going to run too. So yeah, there's going

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Speaker 1: to be a big, big race for this very important

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Speaker 1: senten seed.

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Speaker 2: My Pew has a pullout that I think is very encouraging.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to shock you here. Americans. They're kind of

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Speaker 2: into this whole rule of law thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this was not a good day for Trump's polls.

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Speaker 2: Earlier, it was hard to not write the whole show

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Speaker 2: off of bad poors.

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Speaker 1: Right, It just bad poll after bad poll after bad polls.

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Speaker 1: So this one says, share say it's important that judges

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Speaker 1: are impartial in deciding cases. And you know that Trump

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Speaker 1: went after the judiciary, just like Elon went after the judiciary.

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Speaker 1: And instead of going and saying, yeah, the judiciary stinks,

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Speaker 1: they just sort of went after like Elon. For example,

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Speaker 1: Elon was like, he poured all this money into the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court race in Wisconsin and he lost, and he's

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Speaker 1: decided he's going to do doge And now his profits

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Speaker 1: at TESLA are down seventy one one percent. This is

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Speaker 1: a pretty good indication of what the American people don't like,

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Speaker 1: and they don't like the richest man in the world

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Speaker 1: cutting their social safety net.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds about right. So Sarah Huckabee Sanders has

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Speaker 2: written to mister Trump and she's saying, I need federal

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Speaker 2: assistants and I do feel bad. They've had a horrible

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Speaker 2: run of fourteen tornadoes in Arkansas in March. But mister Trump,

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Speaker 2: he's not feeling her vibe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I looked at this headline

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Speaker 1: and I thought it might be Bernie Sanders says Arkansas

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Speaker 1: and dire need of federal assistance, and then I realized, No,

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Speaker 1: it's Sarah Sanders, the one, the first and last time

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Speaker 1: those two people will ever be confused. But FEMA exists

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Speaker 1: for a reason, and just because the Republicans don't like

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's not needed. These are We're in

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Speaker 1: a moment where America has real climate emergencies. This is

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Speaker 1: one of them. Arkansas needs the money, they need these

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Speaker 1: federal five and now we have a Republican senator who

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Speaker 1: is asking for it. So I don't know. You know,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing with Trump is that he wants like

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Speaker 1: to have fivedoms and to have people come and beg him.

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Speaker 1: But you cannot think of someone who has been a

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Speaker 1: more loyal henchman for Donald Trump than Sarah Sanders. So

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Speaker 1: we'll see how this plays. But first the news. Jed

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Speaker 1: here is a contributor to the nation and the host

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Speaker 1: of the Time of Monsters. Welcome back to Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: jed Here.

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Speaker 3: It's always good to be on the program.

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Speaker 1: There's so much dysfunction happening. I remember this from twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen because we're that old. But like every at every place,

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Speaker 1: it's like you just when you cover this administration, you

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Speaker 1: never know where to start because there's so much dysfunction.

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Speaker 1: Should we start with trade wars are good and easy

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Speaker 1: to win?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean I think that's a

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Speaker 3: good place to start.

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Speaker 4: The obvious dysfunction that we're seeing on the surface laplohole. Well,

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Speaker 4: you know, like basically we have this pattern where like

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Speaker 4: you know, Trump announces the trade war, the stock market

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Speaker 4: starts tanking. You set out stop percent to say no, no,

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Speaker 4: we don't actually seriously read it. We're actually escalating to

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Speaker 4: de escalate, and we're using this to like have more

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Speaker 4: free trade, and the stock market calms down, and then

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Speaker 4: Trump has a breather and then I realizes, Okay, now

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Speaker 4: I can just say, like we're launching a trade war

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Speaker 4: to create an uh aucarchy so the US never has

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Speaker 4: to deal with other donations in the stock market tanks. Again,

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Speaker 4: it is a kind of pattern that's been set, or

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Speaker 4: you know, it's a little bit of a month we've

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Speaker 4: had this happened, but like three or four times, you know.

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Speaker 4: But having said that, I mean, I think because I

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Speaker 4: was just talking to the economist Marshall Steinbaum of the

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Speaker 4: University of Utah, and he made a very good point,

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Speaker 4: which is that while one is looking at the chaos,

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Speaker 4: it's also worth addressing the underlying like logic of what

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Speaker 4: Trump is doing, and which is to try to create

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Speaker 4: a more regressive tax base for the United States, because

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Speaker 4: like Trump is a doesn't just talk about like you know,

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Speaker 4: he doesn't like trade deficits and whatnot, doesn't wants to

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Speaker 4: reach store and have manufacturing jobs in the US. Like

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Speaker 4: a lot of what he says is like, wouldn't it

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Speaker 4: be great if we get rid of the personal income

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Speaker 4: tax at corporate taxes and just rely on tariffs. Tariffs

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Speaker 4: are like the super regressive like tax where like you know,

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Speaker 4: like basically ordinary people everything gets much more expensive. So

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Speaker 4: I think Marshall's plinny which I think is worth taking seriously.

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Speaker 4: Is like that lines up with everything else Trump does,

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Speaker 4: Like it lines up with his like tax policy, it

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Speaker 4: lines up with what he's doing to student debtors, like

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Speaker 4: really going after they want to have a much more

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Speaker 4: pseudocratic friendly America. And I think that, like, you know,

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Speaker 4: when the Democrats talk about this, like it's not enough

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Speaker 4: to talk about just the chaos, but like what's the

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Speaker 4: underlying vision?

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Speaker 3: What is the end goal here? And the end goal

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Speaker 3: is you know, like basically the dominance of like the

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Speaker 3: super we're wealthy like over everything.

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to pause for a minute because you

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Speaker 1: were ascribing three dimensional chests to Donald Trump, and you

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Speaker 1: should never describe three dimensions. This is always my man

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Speaker 1: is eating the checkers. Sure, there is a part of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump that was like eighteen hundred's best time for

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Speaker 1: American life, no income tax, wildly huge tariffs. We had

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Speaker 1: the pores doing their thing, we had you know, our

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Speaker 1: people built mansions, and it was the best time. It

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Speaker 1: was the Golden Age, so right, the Gilded Age. He

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Speaker 1: clearly has read one book about this.

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Speaker 3: I don't he's even read a book. Somebody told m

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Speaker 3: Steve Banden told of.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but I'm going to add I read a story

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Speaker 1: in the Washington Post today. Now again, I don't think

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Speaker 1: this will ever happen. I don't even think it's true.

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Speaker 1: But I want you to tell me what you think

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Speaker 1: about this story, a story in the Watching Post that

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Speaker 1: said that Donald Trump is actually considering raising taxes for

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Speaker 1: people who make over a million dollars. Tell me why

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Speaker 1: this is absolute bullshit, but more importantly, why someone in

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Speaker 1: Trump world is pushing this narrative at all.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I don't think that this is ever gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Ever, ever, ever, ever go on?

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Speaker 4: Well there is, I mean, like you know, like I don't.

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying three dimension leveled chests. But I do

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Speaker 4: think that like Trump basically has a world that he wants,

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Speaker 4: which is a world that you can imagine from a

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Speaker 4: guy who like builds a giant building too named after

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Speaker 4: himself with gold toilets, right Like, he wants.

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Speaker 3: To be like a king. And the thing with being

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Speaker 3: a king is like one way that you have power

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Speaker 3: is like you can decide who gets favored or not.

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Speaker 3: And we see this with the tariffs, right, Like, one

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Speaker 3: of the things with the tariffs is the carvas you

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Speaker 3: oppose the tariffs, and then but then you have all

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Speaker 3: these rich people for Silicon Valley to say, well, actually

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Speaker 3: we really need these computer parts, and can you give

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Speaker 3: an exemption, and that he can grant the exemption, and

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Speaker 3: by the way, you know, can you throw in money

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Speaker 3: to us.

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Speaker 4: And I think that this threat of like taxes on

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Speaker 4: millionaires is kind of like part of that, where like,

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Speaker 4: you know, this is again, this is a good way

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Speaker 4: to get people to bow down and scrape in front Trump.

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Speaker 4: And also, I mean there's a kind of fiscal component,

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Speaker 4: which is that I think that there are people in

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Speaker 4: the Republican Congress who are kind of genuine deficit hawks.

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Speaker 1: Thomas Massey, Yeah, yeah, looking at stuff and thinking like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like how the hell are we going to

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Speaker 1: pay for any of this.

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Speaker 4: There's a little bit to propreciate them, a little bit

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Speaker 4: to propreciate the sort of Steve Bannon faction, which is

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Speaker 4: like out of power, but which is a component of

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Speaker 4: the coalitionion and which has been like really angered by

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Speaker 4: the Elon Musk, you know, having so much sway, you know,

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Speaker 4: as with a tear war, a lot of it is

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Speaker 4: kind of like a show and tell and also a

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Speaker 4: lot of it is I just heard about it. Trump,

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Speaker 4: you know, has the mind of a goldfish or of

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Speaker 4: a you know, I obvious say like a toddler, but

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Speaker 4: like toddlers have more of a span.

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Speaker 3: I think that Trump. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The thing I actually like, listen to Elmo saying for like,

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Speaker 4: you know, like a couple of minutes, I think.

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Speaker 3: Trump would get distracted. But Trump basically listens to whichever

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Speaker 3: advisor is talking to them. And we saw this recently

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Speaker 3: with the story of the Wall Street Journal, which by

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Speaker 3: the way, is doing the best reporting on Trump right now.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Let's just talk about this second. You may not

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Speaker 1: like the Wall Street Journal editorial page, but the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal reporters are killing it. Emma Tucker, Bravo. Like

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and the Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: there's still these newspapers are still reporting it out in

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Speaker 1: a way that's really good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so they had this story where like basically, you know,

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Speaker 4: you have on the one that Scott Bissan, you know,

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Speaker 4: who wants to use tariffs, he's basically going along within

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Speaker 4: because Trump wantson but wants to like use them to

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Speaker 4: create more free trade. And you know, Peter Navarro, who's

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Speaker 4: like a hardcore crew believer. Let's have forkress America, Let's

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Speaker 4: have no trade. Navara was like camped out, like Elon

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Speaker 4: Wiss camped out at the White House. And there's a

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Speaker 4: reason why these guys like don't want to lead from

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Speaker 4: sight because as long as they're in the room whispering

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Speaker 4: to them, they can get his way. But Navarro had

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Speaker 4: a meeting the wall Speatji reported, Then Scott is on

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Speaker 4: sALS woman, like.

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Speaker 3: You know, bled into the room. So I just started

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Speaker 3: like to you know, like say, like you know, the

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Speaker 3: stock market stacking and just put up this tweet saying

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Speaker 3: you know, we're gonna have a ninety day pause and

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Speaker 3: then you know, stock market recovered. I mean, your point

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Speaker 3: about like the guy eating the checkers is exactly right.

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Speaker 3: That there's a guy, you know, with not a lot

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Speaker 3: of inputs control, with a lot of warring ideas within himself,

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Speaker 3: willing to like do whatever whoever's talking to him says.

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Speaker 3: And so so there might be a faction you know,

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Speaker 3: within the White House, you know, that wants to recover

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Speaker 3: this of the popular stuff. But but also maybe I

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Speaker 3: actually think, like you know, this is a kind of

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Speaker 3: he he likes to sort of keep Wall Street at

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Speaker 3: Sulton Valley like a little bit fearful so that they'll

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Speaker 3: pay respect to him. Right. To me, that's the underlying logic.

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Speaker 1: Well, I also think there's something else interesting happening here, right,

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Speaker 1: which is Trump has about ten different wars going on, right,

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Speaker 1: He's got the trade wars. He just has so many wars,

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Speaker 1: and China is really a foe that you don't want

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Speaker 1: to fuck with. And I'd love you to talk about

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Speaker 1: like they got to be this economy by absolutely just

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Speaker 1: being so obstreperous. They stole IP. I mean, just at

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Speaker 1: every point, China has really shown that they have no

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Speaker 1: respect for any of the norms and institutions. Talk to

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Speaker 1: me about what Trump has really hit his match with China.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty clear from Besson's recent comrades that they're going

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Speaker 4: to back down on China. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 4: case that this is maybe the most politically popular part

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Speaker 4: of Trump's agenda because there are like legitimate concerns about

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Speaker 4: you know, currency manipulation, trade barriers, you know.

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Speaker 3: The IP stuff.

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Speaker 4: But it is the case that China has the United

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Speaker 4: States really integrated economies, like they're the two biggest economies.

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Speaker 3: And they are really.

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Speaker 4: There's a large part of America's depending on China and

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Speaker 4: a large part of China that's dependent on America. And

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Speaker 4: it's not just at the tech level, like you know,

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Speaker 4: like a lot of you know, China's a big country,

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Speaker 4: like one point four billion people who like have to eat,

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Speaker 4: and you know, like American farmers like sell a lot

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Speaker 4: of stuff. And you know there's this amazing like backup

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Speaker 4: tweet say, well, Okay, we're not selling beef to China,

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Speaker 4: maybe we could sell out to India. Well, I gotta

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Speaker 4: tell you, I was born in India.

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Speaker 3: You're not gonna sell that, right, So, I mean, there

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Speaker 3: was way too much. There's now a bipartisan consensus.

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Speaker 4: And Biden was certainly trying to do like you know,

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Speaker 4: like use tariffs and like try to like get tougher

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Speaker 4: with China. But the way that Trump is doing it,

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Speaker 4: like if you're gonna, as you say, multiple front wars. Right,

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Speaker 4: there's a certain like people on the Republican side who

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Speaker 4: do have some strategic wisdom and they're basically you know,

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Speaker 4: their whole argument for making friends with Russia is to

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Speaker 4: do a reverse Kissinger, will be friends with Russia.

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Speaker 3: Uh, will draw down the Billies them can focus on China.

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Speaker 3: But actually what Trump is doing is like we'll fight

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Speaker 3: the entire world and we'll fight China at the same time,

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Speaker 3: and which makes no sense. Like like if you're as

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Speaker 3: think we'll want to have a trade war with China first,

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Speaker 3: you should get everyone else online, right, you should get

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Speaker 3: like uh, and what has happened now, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: the most amazing thing was Chavan Geese like making this

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Speaker 3: big trip around Asia, and China is like not that

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Speaker 3: popular for like long historical reasons in many of these countries,

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Speaker 3: like it has been an imperialist country in Asia, especially

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Speaker 3: like a place like Vietnam, right like after the you know,

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Speaker 3: America had the Vietnam War, then Vietnam went and like

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Speaker 3: you know, they fought China because China was supporting the camarrouge.

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Speaker 3: But here Magi went to like Vietnam, And of course

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Speaker 3: it's all stage, but it's interesting that was stage that

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Speaker 3: they had huge lines of people coming to cheer him on.

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Speaker 3: To anyone who knows the history of Asia, like for

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Speaker 3: Vietnam to become friendly with China, it's like, yo, you're

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Speaker 3: going against like centuries, if not thousands of years of history.

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Speaker 3: Trump is done the basic thing, which is that he's

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Speaker 3: like convinced like a large part of the world that youah, like, well,

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Speaker 3: Tina is the safer bad I think all the signs

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Speaker 3: are kind of pointing towards them, kind of like backing

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Speaker 3: down from this trade war with China and backing down

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Speaker 3: just because the whole thing was done in such a

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Speaker 3: stupid way.

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Speaker 1: Ham handed yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, just just in the sense of, you know, you

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Speaker 3: have some guy you're gonna fight in the bar, but

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Speaker 3: then you also insult everyone else in the bar. You

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Speaker 3: get the vtitude like that's.

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Speaker 1: Not what you do, but that's what it is. So

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Speaker 1: if he had gone and I think this is a

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Speaker 1: really important data point, right, had he gone to Canada

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Speaker 1: Mexico and said, you guys, my biggest trading partners, we

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Speaker 1: are the same continent. Let's remake North American trade. Let's

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Speaker 1: redo the trade agreement we've had forever to call it

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Speaker 1: Trump American Trade. Well, I'll pretend that it's changed everything.

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Speaker 1: I'll take the win, MAGA will be delighted. I'll lie

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Speaker 1: about a lot of stuff. And then you could have said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now we're going to bring Japan into North American trade,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to have Japan and then we're going

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Speaker 1: to bring the EU into North American trade. But what

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Speaker 1: he did instead was he said, went to war with Canada,

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Speaker 1: went to war with Mexico, and then was like also China,

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Speaker 1: and then you have this problem of Japan. So over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, Navarro the trade hawks were like, we have

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Speaker 1: a deal with Japan. Japan a country that is suffering

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Speaker 1: from stagflation. Stagflation a problem that in America we're about

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Speaker 1: to have, right, recession, higher prices, inflation plus recession equals stagflation.

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Speaker 1: Look at Japan. Also, remember Japan. One of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why Japan is in such terrible shape immigrants, right, no immigrants,

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Speaker 1: so the birth rate declines, there's no one to work.

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Speaker 1: It's just like a disaster. That's the economic future America

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Speaker 1: is going to have because nobody's going to want to

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Speaker 1: come here. And also we can't get anyone to come here.

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Speaker 1: And also when they come here, we put them in jail.

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Speaker 1: All bad, all things that are bad. So what happens now,

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Speaker 1: So we go to Japan. We said we're going to

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Speaker 1: make a deal. Japan says, okay, now, Japan says, no,

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Speaker 1: We're going to make a deal with China. They are

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Speaker 1: not stupid. They know they can trust China more than

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Speaker 1: they can trust Donald Trump's America, and ergo, what are

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Speaker 1: we doing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, ye know, And I will actually mention

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Speaker 3: this there.

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Speaker 4: A strategy that you outlined was basically what Obama was

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Speaker 4: like setting up in the last years. Like he was

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Speaker 4: basically saying for US a Pacific trade agreement which was

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Speaker 4: designed to counter China, which would like try to bring

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Speaker 4: in Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, Vietnam into an alliance

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Speaker 4: with the US to give it leverage to going against China,

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Speaker 4: which to my mind like makes the you know, like

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Speaker 4: when you can have all sorts of disagreements on that policy,

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Speaker 4: but it actually like mad a certain degree of sense

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Speaker 4: rather than taking a fight with like everyone in the

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Speaker 4: world at the same time. Well see how this tray

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Speaker 4: stuff goes because it is actually something that Trump is

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Speaker 4: fairly committed to. He has people who around him were

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Speaker 4: like like Navara, were like fanatically committed to it, and

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Speaker 4: the sort of power that was granted to him by Congress,

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Speaker 4: which the publics aren't going to fight him on, so

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Speaker 4: he could actually continue to do a lot of damage.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I actually think that like that is the

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Speaker 4: more likely scenario that they will be like this seesaw

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Speaker 4: back and forth doing damage a stock market tanking, you know,

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Speaker 4: trying to pull back a little bit. I don't see

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Speaker 4: how you get out of that doom loop.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is the problem with trade wars, right, is

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Speaker 1: how do you get out of the doom loop? So

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Speaker 1: tariffs go on, things get more expensive. A great example

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Speaker 1: is this is something that Elizabeth Warren talked about last week.

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Speaker 1: You tearff watching machines tryers become more expensive because it's

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Speaker 1: a price war, but in the wrong direction. I think

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Speaker 1: the war the problem. The bigger problem here, and you

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Speaker 1: see this with Trump's wars on the educational institutions. We

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Speaker 1: see this with Trump's wars on other stuff, is that

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Speaker 1: you can't trust him. So if you're Columbia and you

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Speaker 1: make a deal with him, which Columbia did, Trump wants

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Speaker 1: more stuff. He went after this four hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: that he had wanted from them because he had tried

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Speaker 1: to get them to pay it twenty years ago. Right,

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Speaker 1: Whereas if you're Harvard, you can at least go to

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Speaker 1: the courts, and the courts will say this is not legal.

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Speaker 1: So you're better off going to the courts, keeping yourself

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Speaker 1: in the public. You're safer that way than you are

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Speaker 1: trying to make a back alley deal with Trump.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's absolutely right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean this is actually very interesting that

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Speaker 4: like in the we saw this, like there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of sort of elite surrender to Trump, you knowing their

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Speaker 4: media in Wall Street, in the big law firms, in

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Speaker 4: the universities, but like because of his who he is,

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Speaker 4: and you know, like if you give him an inch,

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Speaker 4: he'll take him mine everyone. Even though all these elitian

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Speaker 4: institutions that were very inclined to surrender to him, like

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Speaker 4: they're certainly waking up. But I think you see the

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Speaker 4: same thing in big law and even beyond Harvard, like gee,

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Speaker 4: I think the most positive thing coming out of higher

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Speaker 4: education is I think a lot of the universities are

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Speaker 4: going to try to come together and to try to

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Speaker 4: have a common friend, which is what you have to do.

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Speaker 4: But that he you know, like they're the impulse that

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Speaker 4: people had to negotiate with surrender to him is basically disappearing,

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Speaker 4: you know, exactly it's still there among like you know,

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Speaker 4: some very rich, powerful people, because he does have this

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Speaker 4: thing where like it's all about like you know, deals

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Speaker 4: and favors and winning his favors. So you know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think the example of it persisting is like CBS

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Speaker 4: and how the executive producer of sixty minutes basically quit

433
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 4: because CBS it looks like they want to toll the

434
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 4: Trump line.

435
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it'll be interesting to see because

436
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: the thing is, we've seen so much obeying in evance

437
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: that we now have a situation where the public is

438
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: so hungry for people to take a stand. You have

439
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: people giving to Harvard. Harvard has a gazillion dollars, it

440
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 1: is so rich, but they are a symbol of resistance. Now,

441
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: this is what it is. It's real true.

442
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well I will say I don't people should

443
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: give to Harvard, they have enough, funny, but certainly, like

444
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: any other institution that resists Trump will get support and

445
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 3: should be supported, including like this podcast. So you know

446
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 3: this exactly. But but you give them all. He don't

447
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: give to Harvard, But that's the right, No, you.

448
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: Can give it. There's you know, just listen to the podcast.

449
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: That's what you gotta do.

450
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but but it's absolutely the case. Yeah, there's

451
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: absolute hunger for resistance.

452
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 4: The Democrats even like the immigration like von Holland went

453
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 4: down tells Salvador and now like all the Democrats are like,

454
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 4: you know, like actually taking a stance of like going

455
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: visiting the people that Trump is trying to deport. So

456
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 4: I actually think that, like you know, we always seeing

457
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 4: people realize that, like, no, the positive incentive is like

458
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 4: not to give into this guy. You don't actually get

459
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: anything if you make try to make a deal with Trump.

460
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: And you'll lose it quickly.

461
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll lose it quickly. Yeah, I mean I actually think,

462
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: like you actually absolutely see this with like on the

463
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: international level, where like nobody, I mean, this is the thing,

464
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: you know, they really want to try to make a

465
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 3: deal with China, try to make a deal with Japan,

466
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 3: but like nobody is actually gonna make any sort of deal.

467
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 4: There's no incentive, and you know, you actually get a

468
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: lot more by resisting Trump.

469
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Get here. Thank you, thank you, thank you,

470
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you.

471
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 3: Always great to be on.

472
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: Jim Acosta is the author of The sub Stack, The

473
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: Jim Acosta Show, and the author of the New York

474
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: Times bestseller The Enemy of the People, A Dangerous Time

475
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: to Tell the Truth in America. Welcome Jim Acosta.

476
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 5: Hey, how are you. I'm so happy to see you.

477
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we are here and not at Seacott.

478
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 5: Give it time, give it time, no due process, right.

479
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: So, trade wars are good and easy to win. Did

480
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: we win the trade war?

481
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 5: I don't know. Is this winning?

482
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: Is that?

483
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 6: What are we tired of the winning? I mean, honestly,

484
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 6: what this shows is that Donald Trump will blink. Donald

485
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 6: Trump will back down. I mean, you know, I've covered

486
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 6: him for a long time now, for all the bluster,

487
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 6: for the image he likes to project at his rallies

488
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 6: and so on. He's the business guy who sits at

489
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 6: the table and yells you're fired, and does all this

490
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 6: stuff the art of the deal and everything else. He

491
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 6: backs down, He blinks, and it sounds as though, you know,

492
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 6: for the guy who is still super sensitive about how

493
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 6: he's viewed in New York and down on Wall Street

494
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 6: and whatever, he still can't throw his weight around with

495
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 6: with that crowd. That crowd came to him and said

496
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 6: you need to back down, And he backed down.

497
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's exactly right.

498
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's it almost feels like Scott

499
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: Bestent one. It was a Peter Navarro Scott Bessent contest,

500
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: and Scott won and Peter lost, Thank god, because had

501
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: Peter lost, we'd all be, you know, heading towards Jupan

502
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: level stagflation.

503
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 5: Yeah.

504
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 6: And I mean, and the other thing too that's been

505
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 6: on my mind is, you know, if you look at

506
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 6: the breakdown of the vote in the twenty twenty four election,

507
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 6: and I take this maybe a bit more sensitively than others,

508
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 6: but Generation X, you know, they they pretty much lined

509
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 6: up behind Donald Trump. I mean that was one of

510
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 6: his best demographics. And your generation right as my generation.

511
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 5: I know, I'm not going to lump you in with me.

512
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: Jesse and I are at the very tale end.

513
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 6: Which generation is the most hyper sensitive about there for

514
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 6: one case right now, it's got to be. I mean,

515
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 6: sure people are baby boomers, young baby boomers on the

516
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 6: referge to retirement and so on, but Gen xers and

517
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 6: it's so you got to you know, you got to

518
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 6: be rethinking this one, you know, right, if you're in

519
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 6: this age group, I mean, look, at what he's done

520
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 6: with the economy. And this is a generation that is

521
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 6: so dependent upon the outlook of their four one ks

522
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 6: and their investments and so on, and they're just you know,

523
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 6: it's all in the state of turmoil for the next

524
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 6: three years.

525
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this this because you covered him in

526
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: his first admin a ton he was super mad at you.

527
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: They took away your hard pass you've had. Here's a

528
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: question for you that Trump polling. When he came into

529
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: office this most recent time, there was a feeling that

530
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: he was actually popular, he had won the popular vote.

531
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: He had he said, I have a mandate. He you know,

532
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: there was a real feeling the billionaires stood on this stage.

533
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: All of those numbers are gone. He is now almost

534
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: as as he is, almost more unpopular than he was

535
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: in his first administration.

536
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 5: Right.

537
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I think it's because of the way he's

538
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 6: monkeyed around with the economy. Yeah, you know, not to

539
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 6: go back to that issue, but you know, I think

540
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 6: a Gallop poll that just came out shews fifty three

541
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 6: percent of Americans view their financial situation negatively. It's the

542
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 6: first time that that's happened since two thousand and one.

543
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 6: I believe something along those lines. You know, you can

544
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 6: only screw around with the economy so much, you can

545
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 6: only screw around with the financial market so much. And

546
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 6: people have figured out the tariffs. I went to get

547
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 6: my car service this week.

548
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: Not to just give a.

549
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 6: Completely weird anecdote, but I went to get my car

550
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 6: service and I was asking the lady at the dealership,

551
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 6: you know, are people freaked out? And she said, oh, yeah,

552
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 6: they're freaked out. People came in and tried to buy cars.

553
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 6: Like one hundred people came in over the weekend and

554
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 6: bought cars because they're worried about the prices going on.

555
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 6: I mean, people are starting to understand the effects of

556
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 6: these terroriffs. And you know, even people in Mago world

557
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 6: have figured this out. And so of course he's underwater

558
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 6: and he's he's going to continue to plunge. He can't

559
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 6: help himself.

560
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: I think that's important just to like keep going on

561
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: this for a minute. So best in sort of one.

562
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: And now they're saying it might be forty percent, might

563
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: be fifty percent. They don't know, it might be this

564
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: might be that the whole point of the trade war

565
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: was to get manufacturing on shore. That's a one year project.

566
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: And again you are not going to have to get factories.

567
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: That's a big job. It's going to mean all sorts

568
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: of things. It's going to be a big deal. Now

569
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: that that did not you know now that they're they're

570
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: backing down, that is not. Now there won't be any

571
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: onshoring of manufacturing, right like you're not going to build

572
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: a factory if you don't know what's going to happen

573
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: in a week.

574
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, and there are so many carve outs, you know,

575
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 6: I mean, what's the point of having a trade war

576
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 6: with China if you're going to exempt Apple and iPhones?

577
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 5: Now, you know, I mean, there there's that question. So

578
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 5: all of this is I you know, I don't know

579
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 5: who came up with this line of thinking.

580
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: First.

581
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 6: I won't claim credit because it's I didn't. It's not

582
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 6: an original thought. But basically, the point of the terrorists,

583
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 6: just like the point of everything else, is to have

584
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 6: people groveling at Trump's May's begging for mercy. It's just

585
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 6: it feeds into his his need to be you know,

586
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 6: fond over and cared for and have his you know,

587
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 6: his feelings you know, stroked and so on. And I

588
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 6: and I just have to think that that's what this

589
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 6: is all about, because if he really felt strongly about

590
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 6: all of this, he would be holding firm. And it

591
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 6: took like what a week basically back down. They're putting

592
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 6: out these signals that no, no, no, he's not going

593
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 6: to lower the terrorists on China. But it's all these

594
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 6: mixed signals and you turn on at CNBC for five

595
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 6: minutes and this is what they're ranting and raving about.

596
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 6: That the uncertainty in the markets is just it's just

597
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 6: wreaking absolute havoc. And you have to wonder how long

598
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 6: the system could take this.

599
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: And let's get back to appeasement for a minute. So yeah,

600
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: with the back and forth on the tariffs. Now we

601
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: have these cases of the universities. Right, Trump is trying

602
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: to play a card out of the Victor Orbon school

603
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: of like of university capture, right, hunish the elites, the academics,

604
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: get them because they are absolutely the kind you know.

605
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: The idea is to silence the thought and dissent. He's

606
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 1: got a deal he's making with Columbia where they've just

607
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: given up and are doing whatever he wants. And then

608
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: Harvard is fighting back against him, who is in a

609
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: better spot.

610
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 5: I think the obvious answer is Harvard.

611
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 6: And this has been sort of what has been playing

612
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 6: out since he came back into office. Is you saw,

613
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 6: you know, institutions bending the knee, cutting deals, law firms

614
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 6: just you know, completely subjugating themselves. And it's been an

615
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 6: embarrassment for lots of important institutions in this country.

616
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 5: And I you know.

617
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 6: It's it's it's a fairly revealing episode because what Harvard

618
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 6: has shown and I think what you're starting to see

619
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 6: some for some other folks in various industry. I mean,

620
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 6: look what Bill Owens did over at CBS in sixty minutes.

621
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 6: You know, I do think that the folks who don't

622
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 6: bow down, the folks who decide to fight and take

623
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 6: this stuff on, they're just going to come out ahead

624
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 6: in the long run.

625
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 5: And I think.

626
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 6: There's there's a there's a tendency on Trump's part and

627
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 6: I've observed this over time when the fight gets to

628
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 6: be too tough, when it involves too much work, he

629
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 6: starts to back down.

630
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like the terrorist thing.

631
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 6: It's just too much, it's too much work for him

632
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 6: to fight it right, and and so it's just easier.

633
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 5: Can I get this wrapped.

634
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 6: Up by Friday, So I got down, I got a

635
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 6: tea time with so and so billionaire guy.

636
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 5: And it's like the Harvard thing.

637
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 6: I think that an eventual come out ahead because it's

638
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 6: too much for him. He doesn't want to keep fighting

639
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 6: it out, so he'll make it difficult for them for

640
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 6: a while.

641
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 5: But look what happened to Look what just happened today?

642
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 6: He backs off of Jerome Powell, and what happens within

643
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 6: like six hours he starts beating up on Zelenski.

644
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

645
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, he just moves from one thing again.

646
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 6: Right, And I've been I've been calling it to see

647
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 6: and say presidency, because you know, it's like that old

648
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 6: toy you pull the string.

649
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: This is a duck.

650
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 6: This is a he can only do. He can only

651
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 6: pick on one thing at a time. And it's the

652
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 6: same tire talking points.

653
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: No, I think that's really what you're saying right now

654
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: is so important and it's such a good lesson from

655
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: trump Ism. And we remember this from trump One point,

656
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: how is that if you just keep going, he will forget.

657
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: And for example, that's the difference, like I think about

658
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: the law firms that have made deals with him. He

659
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: is now musing about like maybe they'll represent coal miners,

660
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: maybe they'll do you know, because once you're captured by him,

661
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: you are captured by him.

662
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 6: It's like, oh, well, the law firm of Dewey Cheatham

663
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 6: and how they're on board with us. You know, let's

664
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 6: let's give them, uh, you know Stephen Miller's side hustle

665
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 6: business of going after DEI program. I mean, it's just

666
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 6: like you just are just going to make more pain

667
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 6: and suffering for yourself in the long run. And you know,

668
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 6: like I mean, I like you brought my press pass case,

669
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 6: like I learned my press pask.

670
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 5: When we pushed back, he backed down. It takes time.

671
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 5: It's messy, comfortable court. What's that you win in court?

672
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: You win in court?

673
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 5: How yeah? I mean, we still have judges in this country.

674
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: Judge restored a voa. Uh.

675
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 5: In the last couple of days.

676
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 6: Judge another judge or jury slapped down Sarah Palin's bullshit

677
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 6: defamation lawsuit. Like and he you know, Trump understands the

678
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 6: clock better than anyone when he was up against it

679
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 6: in legal hot water during the campaign. He played these courts,

680
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 6: He played these judges like a fiddle. And I think

681
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 6: what he taught everybody a lesson is you can do

682
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 6: it right back to him.

683
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 5: And I think that's what's happening.

684
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,959
Speaker 1: That's right, And I think and I think that that's

685
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: really important. And it's also just when you have when

686
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: you're put when you're up against him, what you have

687
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: to do. The other thing that I think is so

688
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: important is you have to stay loud, stay visible, stay focused.

689
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: Like one of the things that I think really helped

690
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: you was that you were able to stay like, you know,

691
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: you kept talking and you you know, talk about that.

692
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you just keep going. And what was

693
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 6: funny during that entire process, It's funny we're talking about

694
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 6: this Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She was digging in her heels

695
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 6: as the press secretary and continuing to try to take

696
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 6: my press pass even though you know, the judge said

697
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 6: give it back and so on.

698
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 5: And meanwhile Trump is, you know, telling reporters, well, what

699
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 5: Jim did wasn't.

700
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 6: So bad, and that after I got my press pass

701
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 6: back within the day, he's a question from me. Yeah,

702
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 6: And it was like, you know, you just you just

703
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,479
Speaker 6: have to you have to just weather the storm with him.

704
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 6: And I think these these folks are and it's just

705
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 6: a refresher course for a lot of people and their

706
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 6: institutions and industries that that didn't get under his thumb

707
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 6: in the first term in the first go around, and

708
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 6: they're they're in the cross heres this time around, and

709
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 6: they don't understand the playbook, and they think appeasement works,

710
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 6: and it's just the monster. You give the monster food,

711
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 6: the monster wants more food again.

712
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: And this is the United States of Amnesia, So they

713
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: don't right, they don't remember. They don't remember what happened

714
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: four years ago, so they don't remember that you have

715
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: to push back, that you can't make deals with him

716
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: now he has gone more North Korea than the last time. Yeah,

717
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: and want to talk about this scene from the press

718
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: briefing yesterday where we had the guy with the beanie.

719
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: What is that guy's name, Timpoole with the bean pool.

720
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 6: Yep, he always wears a beanie. And it was lovely

721
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 6: and Washington, yester. It was like seventy five degrees. I mean,

722
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 6: it's like summer. It went from winter to summer. It's

723
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 6: it's I think he might be the only person in

724
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 6: Washington with a beanie on.

725
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 5: But I just I digress can.

726
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: You even wear a beanie when it's so warm up, Like,

727
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't you swap it out to it?

728
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 3: You would?

729
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 6: You would just have like the swamp season has already

730
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 6: started earlier. You just have like speeds of sweat coming.

731
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: Back coming from the beanie. The beanie, you take up

732
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: the beanie, it's all wet. So he's clearly wearing the

733
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: beanie because he's losing his hair. Just who cares bebond?

734
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: Half the people in that room are bald.

735
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 5: Some bald people are sexy. I don't know. That's what

736
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 5: I've been told, not that I'm going to go that route.

737
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 5: I got I got you Irish hair.

738
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 3: It's is not going to happen.

739
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: So lucky, but but I think so. So he's in there.

740
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: He's the first question. The question is basically straight North

741
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: Korean propaganda other people have given you. I don't even know.

742
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 1: It's like a ten minute question. And then she sort

743
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: of talked to me.

744
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 6: I know these are these are not briefings anymore. They're

745
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 6: propaganda sessions, right, And Caroline Levitt is sort of like

746
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 6: the little lady on the North Korean state TV who

747
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 6: comes out and she reads her little talking points for

748
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 6: the night and Kim Jong un was a very dear

749
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 6: leader today and he did very dear leader things. And

750
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 6: this is what Caroline Levitt does and now just sort

751
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 6: of it's like a Johnny Carson Show kind of thing.

752
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 6: And she's like, well, she can't just do it herself,

753
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 6: so she's got to have a sidekick. It's kind of

754
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 6: like the Ed McMahon, you know, he's like the Andy

755
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 6: Richter and Herran.

756
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: And he's in the new media seat.

757
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 5: He's in the new media. Does that mean we could

758
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 5: get in a seat in the briefing room? Does that mean?

759
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: I mean the new media is? It's all now? I

760
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: just want Temple is most famous for having been discovered

761
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: to have taken money from Russia.

762
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 6: Right right right, And then they said that they didn't

763
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 6: know that it was coming from Russia. And I think

764
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 6: the DOJ. I was looking at some of this history

765
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 6: because I was like, what happened with that?

766
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 5: Was it? Yeah? I was like Trump, it was was

767
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 5: it the Russia thing? You know? I was, I was.

768
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 7: Thinking that and and yeah, they apparently they he and

769
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 7: a few other of those dudes took some some Russia money,

770
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 7: but they didn't know, or they claimed they didn't know.

771
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 5: And the DJ said, well, we don't think that they knew.

772
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 6: And it's kind of like a sad empathetic exercise that

773
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 6: the White House Press Secretary for the United States of

774
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 6: America feels like they have to bring in loyalist podcasters

775
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 6: to help them get their message out.

776
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 5: I mean, when you're trying that hard, maybe something's not working.

777
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: You know she is, but you could see a world

778
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: where she ends up being a resistance the hero, right,

779
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean where she because you can see in her

780
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: head like she's covering so hard, but you could see

781
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: in her head like the calculus like maybe you.

782
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 5: Know, I'd be a twist.

783
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: That'd be cool.

784
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 6: And I you know, what I've been saying all along

785
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 6: is is that you know, if she works really hard

786
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 6: and she studies and does her homework and does her

787
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 6: special exercises, she too can be as ridiculous as Sean

788
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 6: Spicer and Sara Huckabee Sanders. I mean, they they are

789
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 6: kind of like the All Stars. They're like the Hall

790
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 6: of Fame, the Harlem Globetrotters. She's not quite there yet,

791
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 6: you know, but she's you know, you put in the work,

792
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 6: you might get there.

793
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: So everything Trump touches dies right, This is this idea

794
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: that everyone who Trump, you know, the people who he

795
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: goes through, and like if you look at Rudy Giuliani,

796
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: that's certainly been true, right, Shawn Spicer. There are certain

797
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: people who've gone through that, gone in and out of

798
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: that admin and have not left the better for it. Yeah,

799
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: Sarah Huckabee Sanders actually is the governor.

800
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 5: She's the governor of Arkansas.

801
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: She has a real job she.

802
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 6: Does, and apparently they're in a fight with the Trump

803
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 6: administration over disaster relief funding. I don't know if you

804
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 6: saw this, but apparently the administration said to Governor Huckabee Sanders,

805
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, but you're not getting her disaster relief money.

806
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 6: So you know, you take one for the team here

807
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 6: and there look where it gets you. You just don't

808
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 6: you don't get your disaster relief money. Which is kind

809
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 6: of a crying sham. I mean, it's one of those stories,

810
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 6: Molly that we don't have enough time to cover. But

811
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 6: we we should have enough time, yeah, because we're heading

812
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 6: into hurricane season. And if they're I mean, like the

813
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: way that they're goofing around with Public Health and goofing

814
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 6: around with the State Department and signal gait and so on.

815
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 6: If we're not getting our disaster relief money system straightened

816
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 6: out before hurricane season, a lot of people are gonna

817
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 6: be suffering in this country. And I mean, it's it's

818
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 6: it is actually deadly serious.

819
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: When we talk about out a lot of people suffering

820
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: here there, it seems like we are hurtling towards something

821
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: not good. The vaccine. I just read a piece in

822
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: the Washington Post today about the people don't want to do.

823
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of confusion about vaccines. I

824
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: think confusion is a very generous word for that. But

825
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: there's clearly a lot of back and forth right about

826
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: about vaccines. This is led by RFK. We have children

827
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: dying of measles. This has not never been to sarp

828
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: K Junior. This has never been the kind of thing.

829
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: This is never This is just a totally a phenomenon

830
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: that is post COVID kind of craziness. Do you think

831
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: that's this or most dangerous? I mean, what do you

832
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: think the most dangerous thing this admin is doing right now?

833
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 6: Is that is one of the most dangerous things. It's

834
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 6: hard to pinpoint what is the most dangerous thing. I mean,

835
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 6: I do think when you have what eight hundred some

836
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 6: cases of measles in West Texas, I mean that is

837
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 6: that is scary?

838
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 5: Is that should not be going on? Kids? Two dead kids.

839
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 5: That should not be going on.

840
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 6: And you have the Secretary of Health and Human Services

841
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 6: not giving full throated endorsements for vaccines and it you know,

842
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 6: it's established science going back decades generations, and he's still

843
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 6: saying this cuckoo for cocoa puff stuff about autism, you know,

844
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 6: and and just the other day, you know, talking about

845
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 6: environmental factors causing autism, and you know, as if he

846
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 6: has this certainty that comes from some imaginary scientific expertise.

847
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 5: That he has.

848
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 6: It's really disturbing stuff. And it has the potential, you're right, mind,

849
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 6: it has the potential for being perhaps the most devastating

850
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 6: thing that's happening inside the Trump administration right now, because

851
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 6: if another pandemic comes along, we're just going to be

852
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 6: woefully unprepared, and you're going to have people in charge.

853
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 6: And it's not just RFK Junior Trump was making some

854
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 6: of these same goofy comments the other day. You're going

855
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 6: to have a situation where history repeats itself. The government

856
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 6: is woefully unprepared, and you have wack a doodles in

857
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 6: charge of public policy, leading millions and millions of Americans astray,

858
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 6: which of course will exacerbate the public health crisis.

859
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 5: That's exactly what we saw.

860
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 6: During COVID and and it could happen again. There's no

861
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 6: question about it. RFK Junior is probably the most irresponsible

862
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 6: cabinet pick. I mean, it's Pete Hegseth has got to

863
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 6: be right up there. But RFK Junior is without question.

864
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 6: I mean, you couldn't pick a more irresponsible person to

865
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 6: be in charge of our public health structures. It would

866
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 6: be shocking if we could just focus on that all

867
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 6: the time. But it's a moving target every day.

868
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: Jim Acosta, you have the Jim Acosta shew on Subjects,

869
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: which is hugely successful.

870
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 5: It's going well.

871
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 6: I enjoy it. You come on, You're part of the

872
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 6: reason why it's successful. No, and I didn't think that

873
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 6: this was going to turn in anything. I thought I

874
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 6: left my open. I thought I was just going to

875
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 6: go screw around for a little while and go on vacations.

876
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 5: And it went really well, right, I mean.

877
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 6: I get to talk to all these cool people, I

878
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 6: get to have you on. I call it like my

879
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 6: Friends and Family program because I get to talk to

880
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 6: a lot of friends.

881
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: Brendan Duke is a senior director for Economic policy at

882
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: Center for American Progress. Welcome to Fast Politics.

883
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 3: Brandon, thanks for having me on, Molly.

884
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to introduce you in the least annoying

885
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: way possible. Jesse and I were talking about the trade

886
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: war with China. Part of the trade war with China

887
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: is this issue of the shipping. Right China, I think

888
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: it's our fourth largest trading partner. Does that sound right

889
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: to you? Third largest training partner after Mexico and Canada. Right,

890
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: that's right. We are having a trade war with all

891
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: of them, because why wouldn't we be. But Chinese goods

892
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 1: tend to come from two main ports, the Port of

893
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: Los Angeles and the Port of Long Beach, Right.

894
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: That's right. And they sit right next to each other.

895
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 3: People don't realize this, but they are just right next

896
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: to each other. Nobody can tell the difference between the

897
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 3: two when you're looking at them from like a plane.

898
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: And during COVID, what we saw was that we just

899
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: started to see these kind of unintended consequences of COVID,

900
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: so shipping got so backed up that we'd have these

901
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: huge groups of ships just waiting around trying to dock.

902
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. People ordered a bunch of stuff online

903
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: because you couldn't do anything fun. People bought too much

904
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: stuff online and it just went through those supe works

905
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: and there wasn't enough space, and they backed up and

906
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: there were one hundred container ships waiting in the Pacific Ocean.

907
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: So, dog, that is supply chain, and that's how you

908
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: got involved in shipping was because of this supply chain story.

909
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: Now we are about to have, or maybe not, but

910
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: probably yes, a big supply chain problem, but not because

911
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: of COVID, but because of Trump.

912
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

913
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: Talk us through what's happening and how this went.

914
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: Look during COVID, it was the opposite problem. So, you know,

915
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: people couldn't do anything fun, so they bought a lot

916
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: of stuff online and there's only a certain number of

917
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 3: reports and only a certain number of places the doctorship,

918
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: and so we got all this backup because people bought

919
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: too much stuff. What we're seeing now is that you know,

920
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: the retailers and other companies that send stuff into the

921
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: United States are not sending it or they're not going

922
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 3: to send it because they are trying to avoid the terraffs.

923
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 3: So the last few weeks, last few months, they've been

924
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: sending stuff like crazy because they're trying to get ahead

925
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 3: of the terraces. But now that the terriffs are here,

926
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 3: we're sharding to see a drop off in those planned

927
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: shippings crossing the Pacific Ocean, and so that'll start to

928
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 3: hit the American consumer over the coming months.

929
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: What I saw, because I saw some of this again,

930
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: this feels obscure, This feels like not the excitement that

931
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: it should, but it actually is humongous because what happens

932
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: is that right now we're in this pause period, but

933
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: we're about to have maybe one hundred and fifty seven

934
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: percent TIFFs maybe last maybe fifty today, so fifty or forty.

935
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: But what's not happening is China is not packing ships

936
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: and sending them over. So talk to me about when

937
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: you look at the numbers, what you're seeing over the

938
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: next three weeks.

939
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: Right, So, we've had an importing bonanza over the last

940
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 3: few weeks, and this week we're still importing a ton.

941
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: And explain why.

942
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: Basically, it takes about two to three weeks to send

943
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 3: a container ship across the Pacific. Three weeks ago to

944
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 3: this day was Liberation Day and the tariffs got announced,

945
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: so a lot of the ships coming in now had

946
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 3: no idea what the tariffs were going to be. And

947
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: then it wasn't until the following week that Trump supersized

948
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: the China tariff to one hundred and forty five percent,

949
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 3: So the container ships that are landing now did not

950
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 3: know that there was going to be one hundred and

951
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: forty five percent tariff when they entered here, which, if

952
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 3: you think about it, it is crazy that small business owners

953
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 3: who ordered stuff are going to have to write a

954
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: giant check to the US federal government based on a

955
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 3: cost that they had no idea they were going to

956
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 3: incur when they ordered the stuff. But let's leave that aside.

957
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: Next week though, the expected shipping. You know, so right

958
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: now we're up like fifty percent compared to a year ago.

959
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: Next week we're going to be about down ten percent.

960
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: So that's the beginning of people just stopped two three

961
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 3: weeks ago ordering stuff to avoid the terraf.

962
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: So ten percent means that you have ten percent fewer

963
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: goods coming from China. That means that if you want

964
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: to buy something, there's going to be less on the

965
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: shops right.

966
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 3: Eventually, because they've been on this ordering bonanza. Their warehouses

967
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 3: are full, They're fuller than usual. This is the shipping

968
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: low season. So it may be a little bit of

969
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: time until you actually see this on the shelves because

970
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: places like Walmart On and Amazon have some really smart

971
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 3: people who've been trying to work and figure out to

972
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: prepare for this. But if the ship stopped coming, the

973
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 3: ship stopped coming, and there's going to be in a

974
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: fact over you know, those coming months.

975
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: So what right now, when you look three weeks out,

976
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: you start to really see a drop Yeah. Now, historically

977
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 1: the shipping is static, right, you have a consistent number.

978
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: So the fact that this drop off that is like,

979
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: clearly China has a plan. They're not going to buy

980
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: from China at one hundred and fifty percent tariff.

981
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 3: Onto stuff and it's sitting in a warehouse in Guangdong

982
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: and Shanghai. And so especially Trump yesterday said maybe he

983
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 3: lowsers it to fifty percent. If that's the case, there

984
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: is no way I am putting something on a ship

985
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: right now. I want to wait to at least get

986
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: the fifty percent rat maybe right, right, So even if

987
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 3: I was planning to eat the one hundred and forty

988
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 3: five percent tariff just to you know, get you know,

989
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: get through the next few weeks, No way am I

990
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 3: doing that when there's gonna be a ninety percent cut comment.

991
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 3: So you know, again, you know, they're just trying to say

992
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: they're trying to wake this thing out because this clearly

993
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 3: they don't think this is permanent. And so I think

994
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,919
Speaker 3: the financial markets feel relief because they're like, oh, maybe

995
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 3: Trump will back off on the terraces. Well, what that

996
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: effectively means is people are just not going to send

997
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 3: stuff across the Pacific because they're trying to avoid a

998
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 3: triple digit tax.

999
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: So it sounds like what's happening here is that these

1000
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: tariffs are freezing global trade for.

1001
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 3: The United States. Yeah, it's not a problem for you know,

1002
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 3: Europeans buying from China. I mean stuff could get cheaper

1003
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: for that, right, but says it certainly freezes our trade,

1004
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 3: especially the trade over the Pacific.

1005
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 1: When we talk about freezing our trade. The whole goal

1006
00:51:54,680 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: of this originally was on shoring manufacturing, build stuff in America.

1007
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: But because there is not a clear message on these tariffs.

1008
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 1: There is not a clear path for importers or exporters.

1009
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 3: Right, absolutely not. I think it's more like the COVID freeze,

1010
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: right because if Congress legislated a one hundred and forty

1011
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: five percent tariff, and you know that was enacted and

1012
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 3: not going away, maybe some businesses would look at setting

1013
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: up stock factories in the United States to avoid the tariffs.

1014
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 3: Right now, they're you know, not willing to ship stuff

1015
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 3: because they're trying to save a million dollars. Why would

1016
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: you spend fifty million dollars on a stock factory in

1017
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: the United States if it could go to away in

1018
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 3: a few weeks. Basically, what this just means is businesses

1019
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 3: are just going to sit on their hands when it

1020
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 3: comes to buying stuff overseas as well as investing in

1021
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 3: the United States.

1022
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: When we talk about this phrase, there are certain things

1023
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: that are cut out for these tariffs. Can you explain

1024
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: sort of what the thinking on these cutouts are and

1025
00:52:58,560 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: what they are.

1026
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: Some things are cut out because they're tariff elsewhere. So

1027
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 3: for example, it's a ten percent tariff on all imports

1028
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 3: across the world China, one hundred and forty five percent.

1029
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 3: Canada and Mexico are kind of twenty five percent. Some

1030
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 3: things are some things aren't. Can get into that right.

1031
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: Now, everything's ten percent, right.

1032
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 3: Except for Canada and Mexico and China. And then Canada

1033
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 3: Mexico is twenty five percent for like half of their stuff,

1034
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 3: and then China one hundred and forty five percent.

1035
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: Why is this so complicated?

1036
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 3: Because I mean, the guy's just taking his Twitter posting

1037
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 3: and turning into executive organs. Oh okay, that's what's going on.

1038
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: Good deal.

1039
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 3: And so then on top of that, there are these

1040
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: sectoral terraffs, right, So the first stealing aluminum, which you

1041
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 3: know we've done sealing illumine terraffs before. That's not topic

1042
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 3: of a deal. Then cars, which is an enormous deal

1043
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: because we don't build a car parely in America, we

1044
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 3: buy it, built it in America, Canada, Mexico and things

1045
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 3: across the border a million times. And then medicine is coming,

1046
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 3: and then semiconductors are coming. So they've exempted, for example,

1047
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: semiconductors from China from the tariffs, right, but there is

1048
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 3: going to eventually be a twenty five percent tear now

1049
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 3: twenty five percent seems like a deal relative to one

1050
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: hundred and forty five percent, but that's the way the

1051
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: you know, exemptions work.

1052
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:22,959
Speaker 1: So we have semiconductors and Madison from China being tariffed

1053
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: at a rate we have not learned about yet.

1054
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: I expect it'll be twenty five percent, but they haven't

1055
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 3: said yet.

1056
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: We have everything else from China tariff data rate of

1057
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty percent, one hundred and sixty four percent,

1058
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: or perhaps today fifty percent or forty percent.

1059
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like Russian roulette with American business.

1060
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: If you are an importer from China, what is the

1061
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: move urban? I mean right now, the move is for

1062
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: the next three months everybody. It's because it's three weeks

1063
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: since Liberation Day. There's a three month pause, So for

1064
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: three months everybody is going to be importing and exporting

1065
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: like a lunatic to try to get ahead of it.

1066
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: Well, no, the tariffs are in effect now, which is

1067
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: why we're seeing the drop off.

1068
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: Oh there was a two week pause.

1069
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 3: No, one hundred and forty five percent tariff is in place.

1070
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: Oh wow, okay, that's it is currently happening. You know,

1071
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 3: these poor container chips.

1072
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: People who tried small businesses.

1073
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of the small business Half

1074
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 3: of what we import in the United States are things

1075
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: American businesses used to build other stuff. Right. They're not

1076
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: consumer goods. They're things that businesses use, right, So they're

1077
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 3: currently in place. And that's why you know, they were

1078
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 3: they were shipping. When they thought the tariffs would be reasonable,

1079
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 3: they stopped. And that's why we're seeing the extremely sharp drop,

1080
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: you know, especially because you know it's like we see

1081
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: like a thirty percent drop off and expected imports two

1082
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 3: weeks from now. I expect that's mostly the China stuff.

1083
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 3: The stuff from like Vietnam and Japan and stuff like that.

1084
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: Those things are probably still coming because it's only a

1085
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 3: ten percent tariffs.

1086
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: But Trump tried to make a deal with Japan, and

1087
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: Japan said we're going to make a deal with China.

1088
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually I think the discussion of deals I

1089
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 3: think has actually been hugely misleading. Yeah, for for this reason.

1090
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 3: So Trump initially, you know, proposed the Liberation Day tariffs

1091
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: of like twenty five percent or so for Japan. You

1092
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 3: are closest allies who are supposed to be helping with

1093
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 3: counter China. But you know, whatever twenty five percent. Then

1094
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: everybody said this is insane, so he backed off for

1095
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 3: ninety days, right, so he's deal, and then he moved

1096
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 3: it down to ten percent, and it's ninety days in July.

1097
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 5: You know.

1098
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 3: The idea is we have these trade deals and then

1099
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 3: it won't be twenty five percent, but it will still

1100
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: be ten percent. He has said, the White House has

1101
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: said it is going to be ten percent no matter what.

1102
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 3: So no matter what this deal is, it is still

1103
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 3: going to be ten percent. And we are not talking

1104
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 3: with China, we are not talking with Canada and Mexico.

1105
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 3: We're talking about getting rid of the steel, aluminum, car, medicine,

1106
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: and semiconductor terrasts. So even if Phoenix deals with all

1107
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 3: of these countries they're talking about doing, we are still

1108
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 3: seeing the highest terraff right since the nineteen thirties. We're

1109
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 3: still seeing a three percent increase in overall prices in

1110
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 3: the United States. We're still seeing a five thousand dollars

1111
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 3: reduction in American households purchasing power. We're still seeing a

1112
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 3: ten increase in terrast that is ten times larger than

1113
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: Trump's first term. That is with the deals. Right, So

1114
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 3: there's all this talk of oh, if it gets these deals,

1115
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Getting the deals just

1116
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: means we're continuing the current situation, which a lot of

1117
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 3: people worry about. A recession. Not getting a deal would

1118
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 3: be worse. But getting a deal does not mean we

1119
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 3: are you know, we are home free here.

1120
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: One of the sort of nightmare of scenarios is stagflation.

1121
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: It means recession with inflation. So usually in a recession,

1122
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: people don't buy things, they get cheaper. You have less money,

1123
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 1: but things are cheaper. You can get out of it

1124
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 1: because you know, it sort of works out stagflation. This

1125
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: night meare scenario is that things are inflated, they get

1126
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: more expensive, but you're in a recession, so you have

1127
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: less buying power and things are more expensive. How do

1128
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: we not end up in stagflation?

1129
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 3: I think the only way we avoid stagflation is Congress

1130
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: reasserts its constitutional power to set tariffs and takes away

1131
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 3: the car keys from Donald Trump. That's the that's the

1132
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 3: only way we can do it. If Trump says, well,

1133
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 3: I'm not going to enact the tariffs, who's going to

1134
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: believe him? If Congress takes away his power to do it. However,

1135
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 3: I think businesses will you know, have that confidence to know, okay,

1136
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: like we're you know, we're gonna avoid this. So that

1137
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 3: is the only it's the smartest economic policy imaginable is

1138
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 3: just taking away the car keys from Donald Trump.

1139
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: Congress can do it, but also the Supreme Court can

1140
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: do it. So talk us through that, yeah, because he

1141
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: doesn't really have this power. I mean, this was an

1142
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: emergency power he gave himself and everyone was like, ooh.

1143
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 3: Guy, right, so you know, first, let me, you know,

1144
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 3: do the non disclaimer. And you know, I've walked with

1145
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 3: a lot of lawyers about this who know stuff, but

1146
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 3: not a lawyer. But my understanding is this, so there's

1147
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 3: normal trade processes by which we imposed tariffs. Trump has

1148
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: actually done that for the steel and aluminum terriffs. But

1149
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 3: this ten percent, one hundred and forty five percent tariff, No,

1150
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 3: he has not done that. He's used this thing called

1151
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 3: the International Economic Emergency Powers Act, which has never in

1152
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: its history been used for tariffs. The word tariff, the

1153
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 3: word tax does not appear in there at all. It's

1154
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 3: what we used, for example, to clamp down on Russia

1155
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: with sanctions, but those are not terraff right, and he's declared,

1156
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, these emergencies, that we have a sentinel problem

1157
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 3: because of Canada, that the trade deficit which we've had

1158
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 3: for like fifty years is an emergency, those sorts of things.

1159
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 3: And then basically the Supreme Court has the question before it,

1160
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: do you know, does the president have the power to

1161
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: just say a law gives him that power even though

1162
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 3: the law doesn't say that. So that's going to be

1163
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 3: the question before the Supreme Court. There's multiple court cases

1164
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 3: put up by conservative you know, legal organizations who do

1165
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: not think the president has this power. So I think

1166
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 3: at the very least they're pretty legally questionable.

1167
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: So there are two ways that we solve this problem.

1168
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: One is that Congress takes away tariff powers from Trump.

1169
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: Then businesses know they'll be safe. They put on a tariff,

1170
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: they don't put on a tariff, but they know they

1171
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: won't be back and forth, so they can buy stuff

1172
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: they can on shore, they can offshore, et cetera. Or

1173
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court takes away.

1174
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: The power from him exactly.

1175
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: This was really interesting. I'm sorry that I made you

1176
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: talk about ports, but I'm glad we got to talk

1177
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: about this because this is real stuff. So thank you

1178
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: for joining.

1179
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 3: Me, thanks for having me on Hope. I had never

1180
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 3: talked about parts again, but we'll see no moment pact.

1181
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon smile.

1182
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: One of the things that you know, I don't want

1183
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: to mansplait something that's happened to you many times. But

1184
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 2: one of the things that comes with the price of

1185
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 2: trump Ism is that your family gets terrorized when you

1186
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: become on the other side of them. It is very,

1187
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: very horrible to see after all the stuff that Kilbrego

1188
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: Garcia's family has gone through, that they are victim to

1189
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 2: this as well.

1190
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Trump World has said a lot of bad

1191
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: things about Garcia, including every which way of trying to

1192
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: smear him. And again, like Garcia is not about Garcia

1193
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: the person. This is about Duke process to the thing.

1194
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: But either way, she has been now she's afraid for

1195
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: her safe. She's staying in an undisclosed location with her

1196
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: three children. I read this in the Times. Maybe it's

1197
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: not right, but that she had three special needs children.

1198
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: So this woman has now her husband is in this prison.

1199
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: We don't know if he'll ever come back. She is

1200
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: now in an undisclosed location with three special needs children.

1201
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: This is not the kind of stuff that you want

1202
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: happening in a democracy. And when you look at these numbers,

1203
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at the bond market and

1204
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: you look at people flying from the dollar, people don't

1205
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: want to live in a banana republic. And that's what

1206
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: this is. This is real Banana republic stuff. So it

1207
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: is our moment of fuck Ray. That's it for this

1208
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday

1209
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

1210
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

1211
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1212
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.