Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. We're going to jump back in podcast time
Speaker 1: to September fifteenth, twenty fifteen, for this week's selection, How
Speaker 1: Publicists Work. We've never had a publicist, you know why,
Speaker 1: because nobody cares that much about us. So it's really
Speaker 1: not a job that would get a lot of billable hours,
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. But anyway, it's a
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating, weird job. And we heard from a few publicists,
Speaker 1: I believe when we recorded this, so maybe we'll hear
Speaker 1: from some again. How publicists, publicists, publicists work. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clarks, Charlte
Speaker 2: w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry so Stuff you should know.
Speaker 1: This is it? That sounded like you're introducing the final
Speaker 1: episode my voice?
Speaker 2: This is it feels like it's the final episode.
Speaker 1: You won't be able to talk anymore.
Speaker 2: No, I'm getting there.
Speaker 1: That's not true. You don't know that. How's it going?
Speaker 2: It's going pretty well? Man? How about with you?
Speaker 1: I think both of us had a bit of a
Speaker 1: dark time researching this article. Why well, because and we're
Speaker 1: going to get well, we're going to get flack. That's
Speaker 1: a teaser from publicists, because what I learned is that
Speaker 1: publicists are professional liars.
Speaker 2: I would say that depends on the circumstance.
Speaker 1: Well, what do you mean, Well, you're saying there are
Speaker 1: publicists who don't lie.
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying it depends on whether the publicist is
Speaker 2: going to the media or the media is coming to
Speaker 2: the publicist, depending on the circumstance.
Speaker 1: What I am saying is, no matter what who you
Speaker 1: work for, if you are a publicist, then a percentage
Speaker 1: of your job will be lying.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, depending on the circumstance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Billy lie about something good.
Speaker 2: Billy ray Cyrus is like, I am going to donate
Speaker 2: a bunch of time and money to a local homeless shelter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to lie about that.
Speaker 2: The publicist gets on the horn starts letting everybody know
Speaker 2: you guys should come cover this. Billy ray Cyrus goes
Speaker 2: and does that, and everything's good. Then on the way home,
Speaker 2: Billy ray Cyrus decides to celebrate by drinking a bucket
Speaker 2: of tequila and runs his car into a whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The publicist then starts getting calls and says.
Speaker 1: He didn't drink a bucket of tequila.
Speaker 2: That wasn't even him.
Speaker 1: That's overstated. What really happened was this.
Speaker 2: So the circumstances depend on the whether the publicist is
Speaker 2: fibbing or not.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm not saying that all publicists do is lie.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying if you work as a publicist, part
Speaker 1: of your job is to cover tracks and to lie. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: and you know that. Don't hate the publicist, Hate the system,
Speaker 1: is what I say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely a part of a larger system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a larger system which includes all of us who
Speaker 1: digest news.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially say like entertainment news. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: There's like a there's a whole. There's two from my understanding,
Speaker 2: there's two routes a person can take as a celebrity.
Speaker 2: You can either just go off and be a normal person,
Speaker 2: and depending on your level, you might have paparazzi following
Speaker 2: her that kind of stuff. There's once you get to
Speaker 2: a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is,
Speaker 2: or you can hire a publicist and feed yourself right
Speaker 2: into that machine to get as much publicity and as
Speaker 2: much press as you possibly can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think any celebrity is going to have
Speaker 1: a publicist, but it's really a matter of your directive
Speaker 1: and your goal. I think some of those people like
Speaker 1: to be like that, the old adage there's no such
Speaker 1: thing as bad publicity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I ran into that that that's more of a
Speaker 2: PR term, where like so, if you're in a PR
Speaker 2: you're probably representing a company or an organization or something
Speaker 2: like that. A publicist is somebody who typically represents a
Speaker 2: single person, an artist and author, a musician, something like that.
Speaker 2: That's really the only definition I can find for a publicist,
Speaker 2: and the job. The goal of the publicist is to
Speaker 2: help maintain and promote the public image of that person
Speaker 2: that they represent.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Bye, having a good relationship with the media.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's where it starts.
Speaker 2: That's the publicist.
Speaker 1: And by the way, that no such thing as bad publicity.
Speaker 1: I tried to find the origin of that, and the
Speaker 1: closest thing I could find was P. T. Barnum. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. I don't think that's verified.
Speaker 2: Well then say Mark Twain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, PT Varnember Mark Twain.
Speaker 2: Everybody says, oh it was a Mark Twain saying.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's even true anyway. I think
Speaker 1: maybe that.
Speaker 2: Used to be true, that it was a Mark Twain saying.
Speaker 1: No, that no such thing as bad publicity. I think
Speaker 1: at one point that may have been sort of true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: these days there's clearly bad publicity. Sure, So you I
Speaker 1: said the word flak earlier as a teaser. Apparently two
Speaker 1: flak or a flack is a term originating from Gene Flak,
Speaker 1: early movie publicist Hollywood.
Speaker 2: And that's with the ck that's right flak to take.
Speaker 2: Flack is named after a type of German gun in
Speaker 2: World War Two, a German anti aircraft gun.
Speaker 1: Two different things, but in this case it is a
Speaker 1: pejorative term for publicists. They don't like it.
Speaker 2: A PR flack.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you shouldn't say that to someone that works in PR. No,
Speaker 1: or call them a liar. They don't like that either. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I looked it up. Apparently it means that, like, you
Speaker 1: can't be trusted, you'll you'll do anything for money. That's
Speaker 1: what a flack is to them. That's like they One
Speaker 1: article I read said that's like calling a personal injury
Speaker 1: attorney an ambulance chaser.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just not a nice term, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So there you have it. So a publicist, like you said,
Speaker 1: works for their client to make them to get their
Speaker 1: good deeds out and to if they don't have good deeds,
Speaker 1: to spin things to make it look like they do.
Speaker 2: Right. You know, here hold this baby lamb. Yeah, oh,
Speaker 2: we take your.
Speaker 1: Picture exactly, and then they get photographed later eating euros
Speaker 1: down the block.
Speaker 2: The two events were totally not connected.
Speaker 1: No, So what they do is they pitch ideas to
Speaker 1: the media and they probably have to be good writers themselves,
Speaker 1: because a press release oftentimes is a starting point. But
Speaker 1: press releases, as we know, can get lost in the
Speaker 1: shuffle and never see the light of day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a huge wasted time.
Speaker 1: It can be. But if you have a good publicist,
Speaker 1: they will be well connected to the media to ensure
Speaker 1: that that publicity blast is not lost.
Speaker 2: Right exactly. So there's direction one, which is from the
Speaker 2: publicist to the media, and the publicist is going to
Speaker 2: have all these contacts with different entertainment reporters and business
Speaker 2: reporters and anybody that could possibly run a story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: anybody that could possibly run a story on their client, Right,
Speaker 2: that's right. And they'll say, Billy Ray is going to
Speaker 2: donate some money.
Speaker 1: Why we pick it on him.
Speaker 2: He just seems like the type who would donate a
Speaker 2: bunch of money to a homeless shelter. Okay, and go
Speaker 2: down there himself and help out. Great, so Billy Ray's
Speaker 2: going to be down there. Plus it rolls off the
Speaker 2: tongue Billy Ray. Sure, so why don't you send one
Speaker 2: of your cover reporters down and let's get some coverage
Speaker 2: for this. And since their friends, since these people have
Speaker 2: worked together for decades, now this reporter and your publicist,
Speaker 2: the reporter actually might respond and show up, or the
Speaker 2: editor or the news producer, whoever the contact is. That's great, Like,
Speaker 2: that's you hired a good publicist and now this story
Speaker 2: is going to make it out there. That's right, because
Speaker 2: they didn't just write up a press release with a
Speaker 2: bunch of exclamation points in the headline and facts it
Speaker 2: to every media outlet they can find a zero response.
Speaker 1: Yes, so good. A publicist is only as good as
Speaker 1: their relationships. I think the other way on that street
Speaker 1: that you were talking about is from the journalists back
Speaker 1: to the publicist. If they hear heard Billy Ray sires
Speaker 1: Drenk a bucket a tequila and ran over a prostitute
Speaker 1: with his car. They will then get in touch with
Speaker 1: the publicist and then they go buddy, hey, we go
Speaker 1: back a long way.
Speaker 2: Would I lie to you?
Speaker 1: What I lie to you? Uh So that's how that goes,
Speaker 1: and they want they will be more forthcoming with people
Speaker 1: who have It's a scratch your back, you scratch mind
Speaker 1: type of scenario.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that reporter that actually showed up at the
Speaker 2: homeless shelter and covered it and made a nice piece
Speaker 2: and everything.
Speaker 1: I'll give you the scoop.
Speaker 2: When that guy calls, he's he's going to get the
Speaker 2: better treatment from the publicist than somebody who ignored the
Speaker 2: pitch before.
Speaker 1: That's right, a lot of backscratching, a lot of backscratching.
Speaker 2: He's in the machine.
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot more women as publicists than men,
Speaker 1: and I've always wondered why that's true.
Speaker 2: I don't know that that is true. In researching this,
Speaker 2: I saw about an equal amount. I really that as well,
Speaker 2: but it seems like there's an equal amount these days.
Speaker 1: It seems like every publicist I've ever known has been
Speaker 1: a woman. And I just figured it's because women may
Speaker 1: be more level headed and uh were able to like
Speaker 1: smooth out a situation. It's some big dumb guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I guess the guys who were publicist aren't big
Speaker 1: dumb guys like me. I'd be a bad publicist.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So what would your response be if somebody
Speaker 2: called to find out what stupid thing your your client
Speaker 2: did or why they did some stupid thing.
Speaker 1: Let's say, you know what, it's really none of your
Speaker 1: business or bothers. Bad publicist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was something I ran across, as you know,
Speaker 2: saying something like my client needs their privacy respected right now?
Speaker 2: Sure would just immediately shut down a relationship that you've
Speaker 2: cultivated over the years that you have to give as
Speaker 2: a publicist. You are like, there has to be something
Speaker 2: that you give, so you better have something that will
Speaker 2: placate the reporter, but will also is probably not the truth,
Speaker 2: because that reporter will go off and write the truth
Speaker 2: about your client, and your client will have just gotten
Speaker 2: horrible publicity because of you. So it's a balancing act.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or they'll just say let me send you over
Speaker 1: gift back from Fred Siegel. You like the last one, right,
Speaker 1: But publish may also and it depends people that have
Speaker 1: a staff of people working for them. Sometimes the lines
Speaker 1: are blurred on who does what. But a publicist can
Speaker 1: arrange interview requests and set all that stuff up. If
Speaker 1: you have like a book tour, or you're a politician,
Speaker 1: or your band with a new album coming out, they
Speaker 1: might arrange all those interviews, in which case they are
Speaker 1: prepping two things. They are prepping the interviewer saying you
Speaker 1: can't ask about the bucket of tequila. If you want
Speaker 1: this interview, i'll give it to you, but this is
Speaker 1: off limits all these things. And then, as we've learned,
Speaker 1: when we've had people work with us in publicity, they'll
Speaker 1: be prepping you on as the interviewee. If they ask this,
Speaker 1: this is how you should probably deal with it.
Speaker 2: Don't answer that, Yeah, don't ridge back to what you
Speaker 2: were saying before.
Speaker 1: And my favorite thing ever are videos where celebrities walk
Speaker 1: out of interviews because the interviewer has asked something they
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to ask.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Those are great. Yeah, I just sit around watch those
Speaker 1: all day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can probably find a pretty good super cut
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Probably. So all right, well let's take a break
Speaker 1: and when we come back, we will talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about the skills you need as a publicist. All right,
Speaker 1: we've mentioned lying, and you know, I joke, but for real,
Speaker 1: if you want to be a publicist, you better have
Speaker 1: a certain comfort level with stretching the truth and lying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to do that. If you're not
Speaker 1: comfortable with that, you shouldn't go into that line of work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that safe to say?
Speaker 2: I think very.
Speaker 1: You need to be good with people and cultivate those relationships.
Speaker 1: You need to be a good writer.
Speaker 2: Well, not only do you have to be a good writer,
Speaker 2: you have to be a good journalist. And a lot
Speaker 2: of publicists have a background in journalism. Because I kept
Speaker 2: running into this in this article and another article you sent.
Speaker 2: The number one rule of being a publicist is to
Speaker 2: think like a journalist. Even better than that is to
Speaker 2: not only think like a journalist, but be able to
Speaker 2: write like a journalist too, because as we kind of
Speaker 2: demonstrated that, the publicist media relationship is a two way street.
Speaker 2: The publicist needs the media to publicize in a flattering
Speaker 2: manner their client, but the media needs a publicist because
Speaker 2: they've got deadlines and they need to come up with
Speaker 2: story ideas, and if something is brought to them, that's great,
Speaker 2: that's good, But that media professional has a reputation to protect.
Speaker 2: Be like, you know, Billy Ray Cyrus got off of
Speaker 2: his couch and mailed a check for five hundred dollars
Speaker 2: to a local homeless shelter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, boring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it came in a pressure release in a
Speaker 2: fax machine. Yeah, that reporter is not going to have
Speaker 2: a very good reputation. But if a publicist comes to
Speaker 2: this reporter with a great headline, creative pitch a good
Speaker 2: story that's tailored to that reporter, and they're beat and
Speaker 2: even more than that, tailored to that reporter's audience. Yes,
Speaker 2: there's a good likelihood the reporter will say I'm listening, right,
Speaker 2: and that's just music to a publicist.
Speaker 1: Hears sure, just to be listened to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's when you throw it into fifth gear.
Speaker 1: You can't be afraid of rejection. You've got to be
Speaker 1: outgoing and you've got to take your licks because a
Speaker 1: lot of your attempts are going to fail just by
Speaker 1: nature of the job. So you can't get your feelings
Speaker 1: all hurt. Yeah, you guess you could, but you don't
Speaker 1: want to show that because then the journalists will be
Speaker 1: like geez, Chuck's such a baby.
Speaker 2: You are going to be eating a lot.
Speaker 1: I didn't run the story, and he's complaining.
Speaker 2: Crying when I saw him choking up in the bathroom.
Speaker 1: While they may get a good laugh out of that,
Speaker 1: probably won't want to work with you as much. You
Speaker 1: got to be very patient, and you have to be
Speaker 1: very flexible because if you're working for celebrities, it is
Speaker 1: a very tough job.
Speaker 2: That's another thing too, So you are your hours are basically.
Speaker 1: All hours whenever you're needed.
Speaker 2: Right, So, not only does your publicists frequently also have
Speaker 2: to do other stuff or people associated with the publicist,
Speaker 2: I have to do things like pick up things for
Speaker 2: the client system. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: In addition to that, like the higher up you go
Speaker 2: on the food cham which you'll talk about in a minute.
Speaker 2: The more that that client feels a okay with emailing
Speaker 2: you at three in the morning saying like I need
Speaker 2: to be reassured about my celebrity status or whatever, yeah,
Speaker 2: and the publicist needs to respond, you're basically on call
Speaker 2: all the time. Also, at three in the morning, your
Speaker 2: client may have done something really horrifically stupid. Yes, and
Speaker 2: some paparazzi caught it and now words starting to spread
Speaker 2: and you're fielding calls from reporters at three in the
Speaker 2: morning to get a statement on what your client did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean when Twitter came out, I remember thinking
Speaker 1: at the time, like publicists aren't going to be around
Speaker 1: anymore because people are doing this themselves.
Speaker 2: Well, they've actually figured out ways to use Twitter.
Speaker 1: Well, ways to use Twitter, but Twitter is also their
Speaker 1: biggest security blanket as well. Because of Twitter, more and
Speaker 1: more celebrities are saying really stupid things that the publicist
Speaker 1: is then going to have to cover their tracks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: So they'll take down the tweet and then try and
Speaker 1: spend that or just you know, the apology is always
Speaker 1: very funny to me.
Speaker 2: Awkward, Well, it's never like.
Speaker 1: Did you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy. He's
Speaker 1: a former NFL player wide receiver. Yeah, he is in
Speaker 1: hot water this week because he spoke. Was hired by
Speaker 1: the NFL to come in and speak to the rookies.
Speaker 1: They often do that for guys that had been in
Speaker 1: trouble to come in and say, don't do what I did.
Speaker 1: It's scared straight, Yeah, sort of. And he said in
Speaker 1: his talk to the Rookie Symposium said something about, you know,
Speaker 1: if you get caught with you know, da da da
Speaker 1: da da, just make sure you have a fall guy
Speaker 1: on your team, like the guy in the car that's like,
Speaker 1: it's my weed, wowly, And he got in big trouble
Speaker 1: for that and his apology. His apology was like that
Speaker 1: that's not the kind of advice I would ever give
Speaker 1: young people. It's like, but that's the advice you exactly
Speaker 1: gave young people, Like, how can you say that days later?
Speaker 1: It's just so obvious. It's a forced, insincere apology.
Speaker 2: So he either had a bad publicist, yeah, didn't listen
Speaker 2: to his publicist, because part of the publicist job is
Speaker 2: when you're going to make the statement, the public statement,
Speaker 2: the public apology or whatever. Sure, the reasoning behind it,
Speaker 2: the rationale, the wording of it, just the logic behind
Speaker 2: the apology is probably going to be crafted by your publicists.
Speaker 2: At least help they're going to help you with it.
Speaker 2: At the very least they're going to want to help
Speaker 2: you with it because they're probably scared stupid that you're
Speaker 2: going to make it worse.
Speaker 1: Right, And it sounds like there's a lot of crisis
Speaker 1: management and that is a part of it. But publicists
Speaker 1: also are just trying to cook up opportunities.
Speaker 2: I think that that's way more the day to day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, depending on the client, of course.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: But I remember our former boss Connell was in a
Speaker 1: band years ago and I read online somewhere that his
Speaker 1: band was went to Elton John's. Do you remember the story,
Speaker 1: went to Elton John's house and spelled out their band
Speaker 1: name and fire on his tennis court.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard to try and get on his label
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to do it, I know.
Speaker 1: And I went and asked him. I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you guys did that, and he went,
Speaker 1: we didn't do that. I was like no, and he
Speaker 1: was like no, these are publicists made that up. It's
Speaker 1: like nothing true about it. And he's like, no, they
Speaker 1: completely fabricated that story. Huh as a publicity stunt that
Speaker 1: never happened.
Speaker 2: Huh. Yeah, So why even go to the trouble of
Speaker 2: it where you can just release a story that says
Speaker 2: that you did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Isn't that amazing when something like that could so
Speaker 1: easily be fact checked, like by calling Elton John.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing, like I don't have him
Speaker 2: to call Elton John. You know, I don't know. So
Speaker 2: I'm curious. I wonder how many media stories are just
Speaker 2: totally fabricated matter of fact. I'd be you out there
Speaker 2: in podcasts. Let us know if you know a media
Speaker 2: story that was just totally fabricated that everybody takes his
Speaker 2: fact right, we want to hear it. I love stuff
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: I do too, all right. We mentioned earlier that you
Speaker 1: end up getting the laundry or dry cleaning as a publicist.
Speaker 2: If you're the publicist intern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen. Is you might
Speaker 1: get asked to go get the laundry, and then you
Speaker 1: will say, sure, I'll take care of that for you,
Speaker 1: And then you will go down the chain until you
Speaker 1: find the underling who was trying to be a publicist
Speaker 1: who still does things like that.
Speaker 2: Right. This person may or may not be in college,
Speaker 2: but it's probably college age. That's something that I ran across.
Speaker 2: If you want a career as a publicist, you do
Speaker 2: not need to spend a single penny on higher education. Now,
Speaker 2: the entire career of publicists begins as a hands on experience. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you need to be in you need to be literate,
Speaker 2: you need to probably have a knack for writing in
Speaker 2: a journalistic way sure, and crafting good headlines and by
Speaker 2: proxy good email subject lines. But you don't if you
Speaker 2: have that already before college, you don't need to go
Speaker 2: to college.
Speaker 1: No, Like you can go in major in journalism or
Speaker 1: communications or PR. But it's not like you get that diploma,
Speaker 1: that PR diploma.
Speaker 2: And you're going to get like some entry level job
Speaker 2: as a publicist. Now you're still gonna have to work
Speaker 2: your way out.
Speaker 1: See it says right here, I have a PR degree,
Speaker 1: So where's my job?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: My advice is to skip college and go straight into
Speaker 1: the workforce as early as you can, if this is
Speaker 1: what you want to do.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel and I hope that there is
Speaker 2: becoming a bigger understanding that there are certain fields out there.
Speaker 2: There are careers out there where you don't have to
Speaker 2: go to college, and there are careers out there where
Speaker 2: like you should go to a vocational school to learn
Speaker 2: that trade. Yes, that college is not necessarily this end
Speaker 2: all be all, that you have to spend money after
Speaker 2: money after money to get a degree that might even
Speaker 2: not be used in your field.
Speaker 1: But I mean that didn't need a degree to do
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. No one ever has to see it, right.
Speaker 2: And this is a perfect example of that, Chuck, Like,
Speaker 2: to be a publicist, you do not need a degree.
Speaker 2: You need hands on experience. You need basically what amounts
Speaker 2: to an apprenticeship.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, good way to say it. So go
Speaker 1: in and get that job in the mailroom or as
Speaker 1: an assistant or as an intern.
Speaker 2: And it would be great if you still live at
Speaker 2: your parents' house at this point, because you're going to
Speaker 2: get paid like next to nothing, yes, and you're going
Speaker 2: to be doing all the grunt work.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: But if you are, if you go in there with
Speaker 2: your mindset to I'm going to learn this. I want
Speaker 2: to learn this and move up, you're going to be
Speaker 2: in the right environment for that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Like we said, you might be picking up dry cleaning,
Speaker 1: you're going to be returning a lot of phone calls,
Speaker 1: drafting a lot of probably not so fun press releases.
Speaker 2: That is graduated from the intern.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm talking about being like a junior assistant.
Speaker 2: Right after you get hired on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and press releases that aren't like the
Speaker 1: sexy ones. You know, you're not going to be writing
Speaker 1: like the press releases for Billy Ray Cyrus. In other words, no,
Speaker 1: those are sexy.
Speaker 2: You'll be writing them for his dog.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know sure, Freddy Freddie Cyrus, Freddy Freddy Cyrus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: You are going to be handling your publicists that you
Speaker 1: work for, their schedule, their contacts. You're going to be
Speaker 1: putting together press kits and epk's electronic press kits and
Speaker 1: blasting those out. Basically all of the nuts and bolts
Speaker 1: of the job you're going to be doing as a
Speaker 1: junior staff publicist or an assistant. Not a bad gig.
Speaker 1: If that's what you want to do now, and if
Speaker 1: you stick to it and you're get at it, you're
Speaker 1: going to end up being a publicist. Right.
Speaker 2: Not only are you getting the experience you need on
Speaker 2: the job, you're also in a place where you're networking too,
Speaker 2: because that is probably tied for first as far as
Speaker 2: like thinking like a journalist goes. You need to be
Speaker 2: a pretty good networker.
Speaker 1: That's right, And you know what, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: We will talk more about networking and some of the
Speaker 1: skills you still need.
Speaker 2: Can I make a confession. Yes, I'm possibly the worst
Speaker 2: networker on the planet. You didn't have to tell me
Speaker 2: that I'm really bad at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not your bag.
Speaker 2: It isn't Some people are good at networking.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good at it.
Speaker 2: You're good at networking, Yeah, because I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't consider it networking sounds like just
Speaker 1: doing something to serve you in the end. I don't
Speaker 1: look at it that way. I look at it as
Speaker 1: like I enjoy making professional colleague, enjoy meeting and and
Speaker 1: getting to know professional colleagues. Yeah, and then later on
Speaker 1: if I can hit them up for something, If they
Speaker 1: hit me up, that's great. But if not, it's just
Speaker 1: something like gotcha, you know.
Speaker 2: So, So the proper response to somebody when they come
Speaker 2: and ask you for something, you're like, oh, I saw
Speaker 2: this coming. Yeah, that's not the way to respond.
Speaker 1: Probably not.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to put myself out there a little more.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, why's that just?
Speaker 2: I think that's a skill that everybody should have. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: instead of being like a misanthropic recluse, you know.
Speaker 1: Put yourself out there. I agree. Well, one of the
Speaker 1: skills that I don't think we pinpointed was networking without
Speaker 1: seeming like you're networking, which is sort of the key
Speaker 1: what I was just talking about.
Speaker 2: And I think maybe that is it too, Like I
Speaker 2: feel like networking is a task, whereas if I just
Speaker 2: relaxed and enjoyed it and like just you know, communing
Speaker 2: with a fellow human being, is that what it's all about.
Speaker 1: That's all it is. That's so scary.
Speaker 2: If I just took it like that, then I'm sure
Speaker 2: it would be much more relaxing.
Speaker 1: I read a blog and I sent it to you,
Speaker 1: and I want to shout them out because they sonic
Speaker 1: bids s and ic b id S. It's a blog
Speaker 1: where they did an interview that was pretty insightful.
Speaker 2: Actually they did a double interview, a.
Speaker 1: Dual interview with Julie Lichtenstein of thirty seven Media and
Speaker 1: Lily Golightly of Golightly Media. And I think they work
Speaker 1: with bands and musical artists mainly. But it was super
Speaker 1: insightful and they said just some little tidbits here, like
Speaker 1: I was always curious how they get paid, and I
Speaker 1: think if you're a publicist for a person and like
Speaker 1: you were on retainer, then you just get a salary
Speaker 1: or if you're a part of a firm that just
Speaker 1: works with that person. But you can also just be
Speaker 1: hired for a campaign.
Speaker 2: Right, So, if you're a and you have gone to
Speaker 2: the trouble of like going in and hiring a producer
Speaker 2: to produce your albums, and like you've made a studio
Speaker 2: quality album that you're proud of, you might want to
Speaker 2: hit everybody up or gather around another two grand to
Speaker 2: hire a publicist for a month to release that album. Correctly,
Speaker 2: not a bad idea, no, And like just hiring a
Speaker 2: publicist isn't going to automatically make it great. Like you
Speaker 2: need to say, can we see some of the other
Speaker 2: campaigns you've run, what are your ideas for this campaign?
Speaker 2: Who have some of your clients been in the past,
Speaker 2: what are what are what's some of the press that
Speaker 2: you've gotten? You want? Yeah, you don't want to just
Speaker 2: be like throw a darted a phone book. Do your
Speaker 2: research because it's two grand and you're an up and
Speaker 2: coming band and that's just that's not chump change. But
Speaker 2: if you if you look at it as a wise investment,
Speaker 2: and you do invest it wisely in a good publicist,
Speaker 2: it could make a huge difference.
Speaker 1: For you agreed this. Julie said that they try and
Speaker 1: get out for major artists, three or four months ahead
Speaker 1: of the release of the album is when they want
Speaker 1: to start their job. So it's not like, hey, it
Speaker 1: drops next week, let's think of some good ideas, you know,
Speaker 1: they want some good lead time. And they said that
Speaker 1: they like to work around goals if there if it's
Speaker 1: like a tour, like for us going on our tour,
Speaker 1: we don't have a publicist, no, but we have promoters
Speaker 1: working with venues that sort of do the job of
Speaker 1: a publicist as far as trying to sell tickets. But
Speaker 1: if you are booking a tour and you have a publicist,
Speaker 1: they're going to be the ones that are getting you
Speaker 1: on the local radio stations, morning TV, getting you in
Speaker 1: the local newspaper or alternative newspaper to get you some press.
Speaker 2: And this is I mean, if you have like, this
Speaker 2: is stuff you can do yourself. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that you are hiring when you ira a publicist
Speaker 2: is their context. Yeah, absolutely, Like you don't have the context,
Speaker 2: you're just the band. One of the problems is you
Speaker 2: are it's going to be tough for you to think
Speaker 2: objectively like, you're not going to understand why every journalist
Speaker 2: you talk to doesn't want to automatically do a long
Speaker 2: form piece on how great your band is. Right, publicist
Speaker 2: is going to be dispassionate enough, yeah, and removed enough
Speaker 2: that they can see it objectively through a journalist's size,
Speaker 2: and then pitch it in a way that's probably going
Speaker 2: to get better more bites.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Because the
Speaker 1: artist we've even experienced this as the ones who gets
Speaker 1: their feelings hurt, saying like, oh man, you know they
Speaker 1: interviewed us last time, why did they do it this time?
Speaker 1: And they're always great about massaging the ego a little bit,
Speaker 1: saying like it's okay, guys, it's no big deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that doesn't do much for us anyway. Lie, we
Speaker 1: got this other thing that's better. Lie.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The other thing they're gonna be doing if they work
Speaker 1: for you, they are going to be sending you weekly
Speaker 1: or bi weekly reports on what's lined up, who passed
Speaker 1: on stuff, who bit stuff like that, like they're keeping
Speaker 1: you informed. Yeah, you're not just like in a black hole.
Speaker 1: And some artists like to be well in touch on
Speaker 1: that stuff, and some probably don't care about being bothered.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, they just want to be on Conan Man.
Speaker 1: Conan shot in Atlanta, fifteen minutes from our house where
Speaker 1: we live. Yeah, and we couldn't get on Conan. And
Speaker 1: it was while our TV show was debuting.
Speaker 2: I know, you know, if you remind me, let's talk
Speaker 2: Penny C.
Speaker 1: Sansy Vieri, Yeah, from HuffPo. She is the author and
Speaker 1: CEO of Marketing Experts, Inc. And she listed out nine
Speaker 1: things that a good publicist does.
Speaker 2: What's number one, Chuck, can you guess think like a journalist?
Speaker 1: That's right, you already said that and you were right.
Speaker 2: It's the number one rule. Number two rule is no
Speaker 2: the rules.
Speaker 1: Right, got to play within the game if you start,
Speaker 1: and you can bend rules, but if you start breaking them,
Speaker 1: people have a long memory.
Speaker 2: Well here, yeah, if you go on and read, just
Speaker 2: type the phrase rules of pitching and Publicity into your
Speaker 2: favorite search engine and it will bring up apparently one
Speaker 2: of the journalists. Things journalists like to do in their
Speaker 2: downtime is write lengthy blog posts mocking pr and publicists
Speaker 2: don't follow the rules of pitching. So one of the
Speaker 2: rules is no phone calls.
Speaker 1: You just don't use the phone all email.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if you're cold calling people like I guess
Speaker 2: if you have a relationship with somebody, you can pick
Speaker 2: up the phone and call them, But you don't send
Speaker 2: an email blast and then a day later follow up
Speaker 2: on the email by phone. Apparently that's the worst thing
Speaker 2: you can do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to bug people.
Speaker 2: No, And it's very easy to come off as like
Speaker 2: pestering a reporter as your publicist.
Speaker 1: I bet.
Speaker 2: So you need to know the rules, or your publicist
Speaker 2: needs to know the rules.
Speaker 1: Here's a good one that I didn't think about reading
Speaker 1: outside of your market. I'm sure it's pretty easy to
Speaker 1: just think of New York and LA, like, what else
Speaker 1: do I need to know about?
Speaker 2: Well, not even that. It's like if you're a.
Speaker 1: Band outside of your industry, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and just start to think of like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: we actually sing this song about the oil industry, and
Speaker 2: oil prices are going through the roofs, so maybe the
Speaker 2: Today Show would want to talk to us about our song.
Speaker 1: If it didn't think about that.
Speaker 2: I'd be a great publicist a songwriter. I'm terrible at networking.
Speaker 1: Google alerts. That's kind of a no brainer. I would
Speaker 1: think understanding the importance of local media. That's a good
Speaker 1: one because while your artist is not going to be
Speaker 1: super stoked about appearing on Good Morning Toledo, Hey, if
Speaker 1: there's a tie like you're from Toledo, you yeah, then
Speaker 1: that's probably a smart thing to do because the local
Speaker 1: media loves people that were from there that moved away.
Speaker 2: Right, plus they still live there. Plus missus san Cvieri
Speaker 2: makes this point, or miss sansy Vier sorry, makes this
Speaker 2: point that you never know where a local contact is
Speaker 2: going to end up. Sure might hit the big time.
Speaker 1: It might work for USA today in a couple of months.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't get bigger than that. And if they
Speaker 2: if they hit the big time on their end and
Speaker 2: they have you as like a contact, it could help
Speaker 2: you out big time.
Speaker 1: That's right. And then earlier you mentioned something about subject
Speaker 1: lines for emails. I never really thought about this, but
Speaker 1: Penny says, Can I call her Penny? You can't in
Speaker 1: a first name basis.
Speaker 2: I call her Miss SANSAVIERI okay.
Speaker 1: Well, she says that crafting a subject line is one
Speaker 1: of the most important things that you can do as
Speaker 1: a publicist, and that they agonize over this and it
Speaker 1: makes total sense with a glow of emails that people receive,
Speaker 1: especially journalists, you want to grab their attention otherwise it's
Speaker 1: just going to be bye by time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but you also have to be redrafting, editing, tweaking,
Speaker 1: she says. It's just like maddening how much you have
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would drive me crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's the minutia. So much importance on the minutia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's true, and you have to you have
Speaker 2: to put a lot of thought into it. But you
Speaker 2: also probably can't come off as having put too much
Speaker 2: thought into it else it seems desperate, which you'll turn
Speaker 2: somebody off.
Speaker 1: Journalists.
Speaker 2: Publicists want to kill journalists and vice versa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like a weird relationship for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And then also do you look up media leads? No,
Speaker 2: So basically there's services out there where journalists say I
Speaker 2: need a quote on I'm doing a piece on nuclear
Speaker 2: fusion and I don't even know what that is, so yeah, source.
Speaker 2: And then this this service that the the journalist calls
Speaker 2: puts out like a daily or you know, maybe even
Speaker 2: more than once a day newsletter blast to pr people
Speaker 2: who pay for the service and then they go through
Speaker 2: and say, oh, I've actually got a nuclear physicist on
Speaker 2: my payroll, Yeah, and I'm going to connect him.
Speaker 1: We've been connected that way before. Who when we had
Speaker 1: different PR firms working for with us. At times they've
Speaker 1: gotten in touch and say it said so and so
Speaker 1: at SpaceX wants to know if you want to come
Speaker 1: on and talk about this or when we did that
Speaker 1: stuff on ABC about when the housing crisis hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're financial experts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so stuff like that. Yeah, I guess it used
Speaker 1: to come across our desk every now and then.
Speaker 2: Well, there's subscription services that connect people through leads. From
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing is Twitter is now filling that void
Speaker 2: a lot where you can just search Twitter for the
Speaker 2: hashtag h A ro O, help a reporter out, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the reporters. And then also I guess there's a lot
Speaker 2: of PR taste makers out there sure that are just
Speaker 2: super connected and will basically tweet a lead And you
Speaker 2: don't have to pay a thousand dollars a month for
Speaker 2: that subscription service. You just follow certain people on Twitter,
Speaker 2: and as a PR person, you might have somebody that's
Speaker 2: a client that you connect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that whole new job of being an aggregator, a
Speaker 1: curator like that. Yeah, like people do that and that's
Speaker 1: all they do.
Speaker 2: But we also live in an age where people are
Speaker 2: famous for being famous.
Speaker 1: Man, I need to take back a little bit my
Speaker 1: tirade about liars. I think that what I'm talking about
Speaker 1: are people publicists for like big celebrities and stuff like that. Like,
Speaker 1: we've had publicists work with us, and about eighty percent
Speaker 1: of the clients that they work with are like people
Speaker 1: like us, where you don't have to like lie and spend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're always on our best behavior.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just you know, regular stuff like let me
Speaker 1: find a good opportunity for you and connect you. And
Speaker 1: so it's I was overstating, and I think that's just
Speaker 1: the far edge of the celebrity end of things. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: because I just got to thinking about what if they're listening.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to think I didn't think they
Speaker 1: were doing a good job. He did a great job.
Speaker 2: We'll wait to back off of that one, Chuck.
Speaker 1: I got one more little thing on Jim Moran.
Speaker 2: Moran Jesus said moron m o n I think Moran, Well,
Speaker 2: not the way the friends say Moron.
Speaker 1: He is was known as the master of the publicity
Speaker 1: stunt back in the day, like he did things. What
Speaker 1: his big thing was to take a saying and try
Speaker 1: and disprove it, like for a company. So he literally
Speaker 1: went to Alaska on behalf of ge to sell a
Speaker 1: refrigerator to well, it says an Eskimo, but I guess
Speaker 1: an Inuit just what you would say today. He walked
Speaker 1: a bowl through a china shop in New York City.
Speaker 1: How that go is a stunt? I think they broke
Speaker 1: some things. He got on a horse for a politician
Speaker 1: and changed directions mid stream on the horse, like rode
Speaker 1: it through a river and changed directions. Yeah, like you
Speaker 1: can do this. And then in nineteen fifty nine, for
Speaker 1: the premiere of The Mouse that Roared, the Great Peter
Speaker 1: Sellers movie, he opened an embassy. Remember the movie was
Speaker 1: about a small country that declared war in a big country.
Speaker 2: Because they wanted to declare war on the US and
Speaker 2: then surrender and then get financial aid from around the
Speaker 2: world because their economy.
Speaker 1: But they ended up winning or something. Wasn't that it?
Speaker 1: He opened an embassy in Washington for a mythical country.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, speaking of By the way, I finally saw
Speaker 2: doctor Strangelove. Oh, really great movie.
Speaker 1: One of the best. It's up there for sure, one
Speaker 1: of the best satires.
Speaker 2: Let's say it is a great movie.
Speaker 1: Great movie. And Peter Seller's man.
Speaker 2: Just he did great. But also I mean, like George C.
Speaker 2: Scott was amazing.
Speaker 1: He was amazing. And the guy I can't remember his
Speaker 1: name that played the colonel or whatever.
Speaker 2: The one who lost his marbles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was. He was so good.
Speaker 2: Everybody was, uh, slim Slim Chills or Slim Pickens, Slim
Speaker 2: Pickens Chills. Yeah, there's chili. Chill Wills was another, Like
Speaker 2: what country Western actor Chill Wills? I think is his name,
Speaker 2: Chill Wills. You'd recognize him if you saw his face, Okay,
Speaker 2: Chill Wills, All right, of course. Chill Wills makes an
Speaker 2: appearance in the How Publicist episode.
Speaker 1: You got anything else? No, I got nothing else.
Speaker 2: Thank goodness. If you want to know more about publicists,
Speaker 2: you can type this word in the search bar at
Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com. And I said search parts was time
Speaker 2: for listening to mail.
Speaker 1: I did have one more thing, Well, what was it
Speaker 1: that movie America's Sweethearts? Did you ever see that? With
Speaker 1: John Cusack?
Speaker 2: And I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Billy Crystal has played a publicist, a pain in the
Speaker 1: butt Hollywood couple.
Speaker 2: Oh best, best portrayal of a publicist on Seinfeld? The
Speaker 2: mom from that seventies show, Remember she played Seinfeld's publicist.
Speaker 1: Oh she was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she tried to get the airline pilot kicked out
Speaker 2: of Jerry's show and he ended up getting right. Right.
Speaker 2: I think it's the one where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia.
Speaker 2: He's making bets on arrivals and he ends up using
Speaker 2: the son of Sam Mailbag as collateral.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Great episode. But the mom from that seventies show played
Speaker 2: Jerry's publicist.
Speaker 1: Kitty Yeah, who was also in Friends?
Speaker 2: What was she friend?
Speaker 1: She played Phoebe's half brother. Giovanni Ribisi played his girlfriend
Speaker 1: or wife. Oh yeah, which is a weird, fucking mismatched couple.
Speaker 1: That's odd, and I think they were. They got her
Speaker 1: to be a surrogate for them, Okay, when Lisa Kudro
Speaker 1: got pregnant in real life. I think that's how they
Speaker 1: handled it.
Speaker 2: We have watched a lot of teams.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna call this one. We were actually right,
Speaker 1: and this lady was nice at a gender party. How's
Speaker 1: that for a subject life? Okay, hey, guys, have a
Speaker 1: little story. I was at a small dinner party where
Speaker 1: the host was making his own sea salt. The topic
Speaker 1: about It's one of those dinner parties. The topic of
Speaker 1: kosher salt came up, so I dropped a fact from
Speaker 1: Your Salt episode that kocher salt is actually just salt
Speaker 1: used for drawing blood out of meat to make it kosher,
Speaker 1: not salt blasts by a rabbi, and the fellow guest disagreed,
Speaker 1: to which I responded, I'm quite sure about this. The
Speaker 1: host then said raise your hand if you're Jewish, and
Speaker 1: the guy that disputed me raised his hand felt rather
Speaker 1: embarrassed while he explained to me what kosher means and
Speaker 1: that salt also goes through the same kosher process that
Speaker 1: would ever explain how I backed down and didn't try
Speaker 1: to defend the fact that I just told. It's not
Speaker 1: that I doubted you, guys, though I jokingly said I'd
Speaker 1: write an email to complain, but it's because a peel
Speaker 1: is disrespectful to correct someone on their own heritage. Good move. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also didn't want to start any petty debate with
Speaker 1: someone at someone else's dinner party also a good move,
Speaker 1: So I decided to take in the embarrassment while he
Speaker 1: was explaining what koscher is at the same time eating
Speaker 1: a spite of pasta with turizo. I hope you find
Speaker 1: this amusing. Please keep up the good work. If you
Speaker 1: read on the show, please give a shout out to
Speaker 1: my friend Amber who introduced me to the show. And
Speaker 1: that is from Chloe to say, so.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Chuck, were we right and the guy
Speaker 2: was wrong?
Speaker 1: We were right? The Jewish guy was wrong because I
Speaker 1: looked it up today just to be sure. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: apparently kosher salt is kosher because in fact, they said
Speaker 1: it should be called koshering salt.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's used to make things kosher. It is
Speaker 1: not the salt itself that's kosher.
Speaker 2: It would have kept Chloe out of that kind of situation. Chloe,
Speaker 2: it sounds like you have a lot of tact and dignity. Yes,
Speaker 2: and exratulations on that. It sounds like, yeah, the guy's
Speaker 2: a bit of a blow hard. I'm not ruining the
Speaker 2: dinner party.
Speaker 1: So that is from Chloe in Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 2: Thank you if you want to get in touch with us.
Speaker 2: We want to hear about all of your misadventures out
Speaker 2: there based on Stuff you Should Know. You can send
Speaker 2: us an email to Stuff Podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com and,
Speaker 2: as always, joined us at our home on the web,
Speaker 2: Stuff Youshould Know dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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