1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: Book Club Club book Club book Club, and welcome to 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: cool Zone Media book Club, which is your weekly fiction 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: podcast of book club that comes from Cool Zone Media. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Marta Kiljoy, and my guest today is 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: gar Hi Gare. 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 3: Hello. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: How's your Let's pretend like it's Sunday, because that's when 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: people are listening. 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 4: How's your Sunday going? 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: Pretty good? Isn't it Easter coming up soon? You would 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: think I would be the person in this conversation who 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: would know. 14 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 5: Yeah, really, really really betray your Catholic upbringing, Margaret. 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is two weeks from now ish and one 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: week from when this podcast comes out. 17 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 5: Okay, so we still you still have time to get 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 5: your Easter feast together. 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: That's good. 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, in order to do my weird pagan celebration that 21 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 5: we've decided to call Christianity exciting. 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 6: Yeah. 23 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Hello, dear listener, Margaret was wrong. It is Easter. I sure, 24 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: hope you have your little chocolate eggies ready for the celebration. 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: Eat well, eat well. 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: Actually that's a good segue into today's thing, today's story, 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: because today's. 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 5: Well, I'm not gonna tell you what it's about. It's 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 5: a story you'll hear what it's about. 30 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 4: But wait, wait, wait are stories about things? Some of them? 31 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 5: I just thought there were things that happen. Yes, Actually, 32 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 5: all fiction is true. That's what the word fiction means. 33 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: Everything possible to be believed is the image is an 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: image of the truth, said William Blake. 35 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 3: So true, bestie. 36 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: So today's story is called The Last Beat of My 38 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: Heart and it is by Edward Morris. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 4: It is Edward Morris. Well. 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: Edward Morris is a proud pagan who studies Buddhism and 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 2: is a queer, disabled retired bouncer from Portland. He's a 42 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: twenty eleven nominee for the Pushcart Prize in Literature. He 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: was nominated for the two thousand and nine Reesling in 44 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: the two thousand and five BSFA. His short stories have 45 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: been published over one hundred and fifty times and have 46 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: made it into Italian, Polish, Finnish, Spanish, Hungarian and even Canadian. 47 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: Oh wow, which is the language that you grew up speaking? 48 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? That was my native tongue. Yeah. 49 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: He has a novel called Alphabet of Lightning that is 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: out from Broken Eyebooks. The Last Beat of my Heart 51 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: by Edward Morris zero zero zero one zero zero zero 52 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: two power. The plug is seated in the wall by 53 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: spinly little hands. The juice flows. The tiny piercing green 54 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: light comes on. Two young girl's voices, rapped and fascinated 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: by an old new toy. Do you remember when they 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: used to use these for real? Before even CDs? As 57 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: if I'm only two years older than you, It's eighties music. 58 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 4: Look on the. 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: Label all different, okay, So how do you make it play? Ahem, 60 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 2: let me see sis side a stop auto reverse, crunch, crunch, crunch, 61 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: blank tape hiss. Then, just like Heaven The Cure Electra Records, 62 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, I have to put this song first 63 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: on the tape. Laurie will know why it was playing 64 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: the last time we hung out. It was playing when 65 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: she kissed me. That's why it goes first. There are 66 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: rules and steps to everything, everything a kiss, leaving your body, 67 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: taking a punch, making a mixtape. Laurie's older brother, George, 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: is a DJ, and he says you can't put more 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: than one song by the same band on the same 70 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: side of the tape. It just doesn't work. I understand that, 71 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: just like I understand that I'm stuck here stuck being 72 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: a kid, stuck doing this thing that takes forever. There 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: are parts about this tape and this night that I 74 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: don't want to remember, but I can't shut this off, 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: Like it's all a bad dream and I'm just about 76 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 2: to wake up, except that I never do. 77 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 4: I never do. 78 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 2: It's this hot night, August twenty first, and seventh grade 79 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: is about to start in a week, and things are happening. 80 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: I'm pissed off at Dad. I'm going to sneak out 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: and go to what's left of the dance anyway, after 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: i make this mixtape, I already feel like I'm starting 83 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: to leave my body again. I think that when you 84 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: get out of your body, you have to learn to 85 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: either stay out and move around or come back and 86 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: make yourself move. There are rules and steps to it. 87 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: I want to know them. See, I just learned how 88 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: to leave my body for longer than a minute or 89 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: a second or whatever. I'm going to try it again soon. 90 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: I remember all the words, are enough of the ones 91 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: that I took away from Uncle Walter's house on the 92 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: last day. I remember how I do I do. I 93 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: remember how to take a punch too. I've had the 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: practice you have to learn how to hit, back, block, fall, 95 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: or hide. Even when a body thinks it can't, the 96 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: mind finds a way. It's like that anytime something awful 97 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: happens very fast, I have a lot of time to 98 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: think until until until, oh God, I'm done copying the 99 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: last song on this tape, and Dad's passed out, and 100 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: I can sneak out to the dance. Chris Clark from 101 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: down the street is bringing this giant bottle of homemade 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: wine he ganged from his dad. And the last time 103 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: I went to a dance, the coolest girl I know 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: kissed me. This time, I'm bringing the tape just in 105 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: case Laurie's there. Anything can happen when I'm done, When 106 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: the tape is done, when I'm Saturday Night a Holocaust. 107 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: Dead Kennedy's Alternative Tentacles nineteen eighty two, which is a 108 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: thing that you can buy because it's an album, much 109 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: like the things that you can buy that we advertise, 110 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: which also bear the complexity of being anti capitalists like 111 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: the Dead Kennedys and yet making their living. 112 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 4: Through the sale of products. 113 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: Here's ads, and we're bec done. It's still now, It's 114 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: still then. I'm still right here wanting something I can 115 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: never have, dreaming the real world again where it is 116 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 2: some year I don't even want to hear. I don't 117 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 2: want to hear it. Don't want, don't, don't. Decay has 118 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: its rules and steps too. I don't get played much anymore. 119 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: I haven't. I can't. I can't remember Laurie's face. I can, 120 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: I can. I have no idea if I remember it right. 121 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 2: But I remember Laurie's mouth, like raindrops and strawberries, the 122 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: way she put her hands in my hair and looked 123 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: into my eyes just like her, like nobody and nothing 124 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: else but her, which was the only way I ever 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: wanted her to look in my eyes. I remember her face. 126 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: I think I have to. 127 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 4: Believe that it is Laurie's face. 128 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: I have no idea where I'll go when I finally go, 129 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: when the ribbon on this tape breaks, or its iron 130 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: oxide emulsion eventually cycles down to nothing. I was almost 131 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: done learning how to leave my body in dreams and 132 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: sometimes awake when the awful thing happened, the one I 133 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: don't want to remember. I was almost done learning to 134 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: say those words that Uncle Walter was saying that one 135 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: day when I walked in on him in the back 136 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: room of his garage where the kids weren't supposed to 137 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: go when we were over to visit, back when I 138 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: was only eleven and there were still visits. I heard 139 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: Uncle Walter saying those words when I saw him walk 140 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: up out of his body. He was chanting them in 141 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: his throat like he could sing in three different tones. 142 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: But Uncle Walter wasn't singing really, He was sort of 143 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: shaping the notes where his body was because his essence was. 144 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: At the time, I lost my balance and stumbled where 145 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: I was standing and trying to be quiet, cracking the 146 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: back of my head on the doorframe. Uncle Walter's essence 147 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: was walking up out of his body where he sat 148 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: in that broken backed, farty, old lazy boy of his 149 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 2: in some kind of strange posture. Then his essence stopped 150 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: walking up out of him. What happened wasn't pretty. Uncle 151 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 2: Walter ended the process. He was startled I had startled him. 152 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: We exchanged some words of our own then Uncle Walter 153 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: and me, not very nice ones. He cut me out 154 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: of his life until he wrote that letter. We were 155 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 2: both horrified. We should have calmed down. Later on, by myself, 156 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: I parroted those initial words I heard Uncle Walter say 157 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: to make himself walk up out of his body. I 158 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 2: said them as well as I could in the dark 159 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: in my own room. Later, I could feel the words 160 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: in the back of my throat. It felt like swallowing 161 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: a bee. I needed to sit down so I could 162 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: stand up out of myself and climb the spiderweb ladder. 163 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: The silver cord thing that came up out of my 164 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: head and pulled me to my feet, making me look 165 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: toward the ceiling and sing more of what weren't quite words. 166 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: I could sense that there was a world on the 167 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: other end of that silver cord, maybe even one with 168 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: lions and wardrobes and scary sorceress queens, giants and singing 169 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: harps and magic beans, anything I could imagine. Maybe I 170 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: tried and tried to get up out of here. Maybe 171 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: I never wanted to come back, but couldn't figure out 172 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: how to cut. 173 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 4: Off and float away. Not in time, Not in time. 174 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: I could do it in school if I really thought 175 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: about it for a whole minutes, pretend like I was sleeping, 176 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: and then go out through the top of my head 177 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 2: along the ceiling towards the clean, bright light that whispered, come, 178 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 2: but I couldn't yet I was still alive. It wasn't 179 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: time Rabbit over you the damned Big Beat Records, nineteen 180 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: eighty three. I've been having better luck leaving my body 181 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: right before I lay down to sleep while saying those 182 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: weird words I somehow knew in my bones to be 183 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: Scott's Gaelic, the ones I heard when I walked in 184 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: on what I shouldn't have seen. Then there were the 185 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: nasty words we had, and the first ones that good 186 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: old Walter ever said on the subject shortly before that, 187 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: when he came back into himself. 188 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll teach you to do that. 189 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,599 Speaker 2: When your balls drop, Uncle Walter told me when I 190 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: walked in on him when he got done being startled. 191 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 2: But his dark eyes were still doing that weird thing 192 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: they did sometimes. The lights were starting to flicker in 193 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: that room, the way that lights always did around Uncle 194 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: Walter when he got upset. They did when he walked 195 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: back into his body, just before he spoke. First, I 196 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: never asked the question that immediately preceded his actual comment. 197 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: Uncle Walter pulled the question straight from my head. I 198 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 2: felt him do it, and that made me remember something 199 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: even earlier, the way the candles flickered in the garage. 200 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: When I was six and I walked in on Uncle 201 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: Walter and Dad shouting at each other. There was some 202 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: kind of a circle drawn on the concrete, half finished. 203 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: It didn't look like paint. They looked like they were 204 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: going to fight. I remember the nasty words that they 205 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: had that day, too. I remember all the nasty words 206 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: everyone Dad, or Uncle Walter or anyone else ever said. 207 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: I have to strange, remember Laurie's face, but I remember 208 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 2: all those nasty words. Dad never talked to Uncle Walter 209 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: again after I was eleven, but I could pick who 210 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: to listen to, one or neither. I can't be in 211 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 2: touch too much. Uncle Walter wrote in that one weird 212 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 2: letter not long later, it would break a lot of words, 213 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: whatever the hell that meant, and cause a lot of 214 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: problems between me and your dad that I would never 215 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: ever be able to solve. Not like there aren't enough 216 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 2: of those anyway. I'm sorry, have a good life, Walter. 217 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: I brought this on myself now I have forever to 218 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: be sorry. But we don't talk about things like that 219 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: in this house, not until this tape is done. Then 220 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: maybe we will because I'm done. I was almost done. 221 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: It's almost done. I'm almost done rubber ring the Smiths 222 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: Sire nineteen eighty seven. And you know what else is problematic, 223 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: like the Smiths. 224 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 5: The advertisements that you may or may not hear on 225 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 5: this podcast. 226 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: We've been having some bad ones lately, and we've been 227 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: working to get them out of here. But in general, 228 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: if you think to yourself, do Margaret and Garrison support 229 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: you becoming a jailer? Think I can speak for both 230 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: of us when I say the answer is yes, yeah, 231 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: you could probably refer to our body of work. 232 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 3: And come to that conclusion yourself. 233 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 234 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: And you know, so here the other ads that are 235 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: hopefully not for the state of Israel or becoming a jailer. 236 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 4: Hopefully those have been excised by. 237 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 6: Now and we're back. 238 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: I am an endlessly repeating placeholder on the skin of 239 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: this emulsion that decays down to nothing even now. Lodged 240 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: in the hot, dusty left hand cassette deck of a 241 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: little Sears component stereo I bought with lawnmowing money in 242 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: eighty nine. 243 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: That was it last year. 244 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: It has a CD deck in the top, but I 245 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: don't have any CDs just a whole bunch of these 246 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: mixtapes I started making for my big sister Hannah's old 247 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: records before Dad burned half of them for having skulls 248 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: and stuff on them and band names like Suicidal Tendencies 249 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: or the Butthole Surfers nineteen eighty nine. Last year, when 250 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: everything but Dad made sense, I can tell where the 251 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: skip is, the little leader between each song. Just once 252 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: I got stuck, stuck, stuck, and now the smiths are 253 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: telling me not to forget the songs that saved my life. 254 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: I was wearing George's big DJ headphones when I snaked 255 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: the extra long cord fifty feet through the room and 256 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 2: out onto the roof to go smoke a cigarette. That time, 257 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: I didn't care whether Dad smelled it. You could damn 258 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: well come up and yank me down. Mom was on 259 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: the back porch twenty feet below me. I was more 260 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: worried about her. She always went back there and did 261 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: a lot of wash or dishes or something to get away, 262 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: to get her head away. I remember Walter yelling at 263 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: Dad in his garage when I was six, don't you 264 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: hurt my sister, you lousy drunk. But back then I 265 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: couldn't put two and two together and get anything. I 266 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: was six six six. All of a sudden, the back 267 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: door banged, and Mom was screaming up at me, Get downstairs, 268 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: get downstairs. 269 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 4: And I saw. 270 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: Hallelujah Leonard Cohen, Columbia, nineteen eighty four. I saw the 271 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 2: column of fire lick up the side of the back porch, 272 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: the flamethrower belch from the dryer vent. I had time 273 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: to be fascinated, just time. I opened my mouth to scream, 274 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: and I didn't even think about what I was screaming. 275 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: And I was screaming the words, those words, those sketchy 276 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: Uncle Walter words at the top of my lungs. I 277 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: saw Mom jump back a bit and make the sign 278 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: of the cross. And then those headphones had a long cord. 279 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: I mentioned that not silver, but curly plastic coated copper wire. 280 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: It led back in the window to the tape deck. 281 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: When the awful thing happened, I remember the song, the 282 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: one I was copying, The last Beat of My Heart. 283 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: Susie and the Banshees, Polydor Records, nineteen eighty eight. 284 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: Ah God. 285 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: Susie's operatic voice starts out slow and goes up up 286 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: up as my skin goes up, up, up, and my 287 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: heart just keeps going faster, faster, faster, And to the 288 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: last beat is immolation. The last beat is twenty nineteen, 289 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: eighteen seventeen. Click Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, auto reverse play. 290 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: Sometimes I dream like now or the other dream I 291 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: had where powers Berg FD put my tape deck in 292 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: a bin with a bunch of stuff to take to 293 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: the Goodwill. I may be there still, but dreams decay. 294 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: Part of me knows that, just like part of me 295 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: knows it was a bad idea to go out that way, 296 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: whether I was right or not. When I was only 297 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: halfway through making this mixtape for LORI no reason payback 298 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: for that kiss. It was just after dinner. The old 299 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: man popped me in the mouth for spiking at my mohawk. 300 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: Then he called my music satanic. I said what I said, 301 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: and then Mom goes, don't use Dad's logic against him, honey, 302 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: it bruises his ego. And then he hit or a 303 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: lick too. And then that was an hour or so ago. 304 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: It's almost seven. I'm away to the roof of smoke. 305 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: Just as soon as I finish, I'll leave another tape 306 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 2: in maybe the Misfits or gg Allen, just to give 307 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: Dad nightmares when this song is done. Those tapes are 308 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: in the file cabinet where I keep my smokes, where 309 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 2: Dad doesn't know. The drawer goes all the way back. 310 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: And there are other things, the ones I started making 311 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: the words of my own that you won't find on 312 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: any backwards records because the witches in our family never 313 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 2: worshiped Satan. 314 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 4: Dad then crack. 315 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: I remember his fist connecting with my mouth, flattening my 316 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 2: lips to my teeth, knocking me sideways and down. I remember, 317 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: I remember the blood of a newly wakened witch spilling 318 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: an anger on that floor, and the curse I shrieked 319 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: at my father, the curse that comes back to me 320 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: one thousandfold as I stop the world and melt, and 321 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: the first song comes on again, and I wake into 322 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: the hot August dream a little while longer, restless and 323 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: wanting to be out the door, waiting to finish this 324 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 2: mixtape and bring it down to the school dance. That night, 325 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: Dad accused me of talking to Uncle Walter behind his back. 326 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: I wish Uncle Walter and I would have talked a 327 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 2: good bit more that's the end of the story. 328 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 3: I have a one main question. 329 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 5: Okay, what's a tape deck? 330 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 4: Uh? 331 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: When I was a kid, there was a cartoon called 332 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: Dark Wing Duck and one of the jokes, the only 333 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: joke I remember from this pretty mid car tune. YEA 334 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: was the younger kid being like records are those like 335 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: big CDs? And I remember thinking, I'm in like fourth 336 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 2: or fifth grade. I remember thinking it's a pretty bad joke. 337 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 5: Wow, wow, Margaret, I'm sorry, my sense of humor is 338 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 5: worse than your fourth grade sense of humor. That's right, 339 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 5: I'm attempting to say. I just I think it's really fast. 340 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 5: I love the like the like what's a fax machine jokes? 341 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 5: You know? 342 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 343 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I actually really like them. 344 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 5: I briefly had a tape deck, but I transitioned to 345 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 5: CDs pretty soon. Yeah, but I do remember some old, 346 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 5: some old it's probably some kind of like weird like 347 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 5: Christian music tapes that I had. 348 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 349 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: My first tape was Smashing Pumpkins Siamese Dream that my 350 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: sister dubbed for me, with a bunch of ram on 351 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: the other side and some new water. 352 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 3: Okay, well it's like two out of three. 353 00:19:58,760 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, no. 354 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I'm not a big Smashing Pumpkins fan anymore. 355 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 2: But new order thumbs. 356 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah. 357 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: And the what was the first like CD you bought? 358 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 5: Oh, this is probably gonna be embarrassing. It might have 359 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 5: been in an Owl City CD, which is which is 360 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 5: quite embarrassing. 361 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 4: Okay. 362 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: So the reason that like old people like to think 363 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 2: that young people don't know anything about the past is 364 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: that old people don't know anything about the present or 365 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 2: the recent past. 366 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 5: I have no idea who al City is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 367 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 5: you actually did know what a tape deck was. Yeah, 368 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 5: And and I knew all but one of one of 369 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 5: the bands in the story, which I'm which I'm actually 370 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 5: pleasantly surprised by. 371 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 4: Hell yeah, no, owl. 372 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: City was like a like. 373 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 5: A Christian electronic like sound producer. Oh okay, the guy 374 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 5: actually created most of the sounds for like the fifth 375 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 5: generation of the iPhone. So he both made music, which 376 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 5: some of which is like okay, but like like Christian Moby, 377 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 5: I don't I don't know what Moby is. Maybe, oh, 378 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 5: interested add that to my list? 379 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 4: Okay, uh self? 380 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 5: Right? Just Vegan who is almost almost radical, who made 381 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 5: a lot of electronic music in the nineties. It kind 382 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 5: of sounds like the postal Service, but slightly more electronic 383 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 5: and slightly worse. That's kind of that's kind of owl 384 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 5: City in my mind. 385 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: Okay, I like the postal Service. I also like the 386 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 2: post I don't know if I like the worst version, 387 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: but see that's the thing, right, Yeah, I found that 388 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: very fun. It is It is definitely always startling once 389 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: you get sent back into your body by another like 390 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: corporeal form entering the room that you're traveling from. 391 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, that always that always does take a sec to adjust. 392 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 5: Like I can totally handle like some like grotesque like 393 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 5: earth spirit showing up, but if another like actual human 394 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 5: being walks in, that's like incredibly jarring. 395 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 396 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: I like this story because it's it's a magic set 397 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: in the real world story that feels like real, like 398 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 2: it feels like yeah, yeah, absolutely casting fireballs or whatever. 399 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: He's no, this is this is what like actual like 400 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: occult practice looks like. Yeah, and then just talking about 401 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: how like you know, there's the whole genre is not 402 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: the right word, but maybe trope of like people with 403 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: shitty parents, especially dads, who need to find ways to escape, 404 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: and they escape into their music, right and I like 405 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: the idea of taking that literally and seeing what it 406 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: looks like. I love that the silver chord, you know, 407 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: the headphones with their cord is the same as like 408 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: the silver chord that allows you to move in the 409 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 2: astral plane. 410 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 4: I just I loved that. 411 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 412 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also am a sucker for this like 413 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 2: generational thing that has come down through time but is 414 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 2: like not wanted the modern context, you know, the like 415 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 2: the weird Scott's Gaelic magic or whatever that they're referring to. 416 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it definitely has like like a like an 417 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 5: American Gothic kind of feel like doing magic and like 418 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 5: an old like basement garage as opposed to like doing 419 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 5: it in like a temple or like cathedral, and like 420 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 5: the like the like the general like. 421 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 3: Western esoteric tradition. Yeah, where you have like robes and. 422 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 5: You're doing like ceremonial stuff versus like you're drawing chalk 423 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 5: circles and like the basement. 424 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and laying on a lazy boy in order to 425 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 2: be comfy while you leave your body. 426 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's like there's like a dryer and like washing 427 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 5: machine in the background 'or like that's Yeah, I kind 428 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 5: of enjoy that style of like Gothic American combined with 429 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 5: this like very like low fi occult current, which is 430 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 5: honestly pretty well reflected in the uh in the mixtape uh. 431 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 3: He and all of the artists mentioned. 432 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also funny. I usually don't like stories where 433 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure what's happening, Like. 434 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 5: I actually who interesting. I love stories that I don't 435 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 5: know what's happening. 436 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: Okay, and for me, like I feel like often I 437 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: think sometimes it's just and is not the case. I 438 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 2: really like the way that I don't totally know what 439 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 2: happened in this story. I've read it several times, right sure, 440 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 2: And I am not entirely certain whether this is the 441 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 2: voice that is coming from the mixtape. Like I'm not 442 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 2: certain whether the framing story of the two girls who 443 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 2: find an old tape, whether they're like hearing this as 444 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: an audio narration between songs. I also don't know whether 445 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: like the idea is that the protagonist has died and 446 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: then like is now sort of living in this tape 447 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 2: inasmuch as they're living anywhere, Like I don't quite know, 448 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: and I actually like that I don't know, and I usually. 449 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 5: Don't I definitely love stuff where it has that level 450 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 5: of like it has the level of ambiguity that I 451 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 5: experienced my actual life. 452 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I like when that happens, when. 453 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm not sure what the voices in my 454 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 5: head that I'm talking to, Like, where do they come from? 455 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 3: Is that? Is that just me? 456 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 5: I really appreciate that sort of thing, And like, yeah, 457 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 5: the the notion that you can like continue to live 458 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 5: in some way through a recording that gets played back, Yeah, 459 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 5: I definitely find to be a very fun concept and 460 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 5: very like evocative of like the whole point of making 461 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 5: art as well. It's like, is our just this really 462 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 5: like almost sad attempt at immortality? 463 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, I definitely enjoy. 464 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 5: When I have I don't have like a firm ground 465 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 5: underneath me, because I feel like the ground we experience, 466 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 5: I think people assume is slightly more firm than what 467 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 5: it actually may be. 468 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: I think that that was like a big part of 469 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: the growing up process for me was learning that the 470 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: the ground under our feet is not as firm as 471 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: as we thought, and like realizing like once you're like, oh, 472 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: there isn't really a neurotypical you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, 473 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: like and the more you realize that, you're like, oh, 474 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: everyone is just different levels of like higher low functioning crazy, 475 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: Like it's useful. 476 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 5: And all the stuff they're talking about in the story 477 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 5: of like with with their mention of like dreams and 478 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 5: waking up from dreams and the slow intermeshing of dream 479 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 5: and wakefulness. 480 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of these concepts for young. 481 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 5: People specifically, are easier to envision via dreams, Like it's 482 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 5: hard to figure out where like the bottom of a 483 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 5: dream is, like how like how far can you keep going? 484 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 5: Sometimes you think, oh, this is all right, this is 485 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 5: just I'm awake, I'm doing going through my tasks, and 486 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 5: then boom, you're totally somewhere else. 487 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 3: You're like, oh, that was actually a dream. 488 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, and you just see like this like almost like 489 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 5: eternal descent and how there's certain ideas of that that 490 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 5: are absolutely reflected in our kind of everyday waking existence 491 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 5: as well. 492 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, I. 493 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 2: Love all this stuff and it actually ties into I'm 494 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 2: gonna read the notes from the author from Edward Morris 495 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 2: that he sent me. He said about the story one, 496 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 2: it ends with the stories for Jackie Kessler and the 497 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 2: ties that bind, and then the notes about the stories 498 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: I could rant for a week. It's of course mostly 499 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: drawn from life, but it's also an homage to the 500 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 2: great writer who's work crossed my axis at the same time, 501 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: Jackie Kessler and her horrifying the ties that bind. There's 502 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: a two thousand and six story her narrator didn't get 503 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 2: stuck on a mixtape. She got her face eaten off 504 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 2: by Jack Russell. It was more of a mean girl's scenario, 505 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: but it hit me so hard I had to try 506 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: my own. I have enough other things to rant about 507 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: the subject matter for a full blown interview, trying to 508 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 2: keep this concise. That was a basically he was like, 509 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: there's so much to it that I kind of can't 510 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: get into it. 511 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think that I think. 512 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 5: Underlines some of what we were talking about a little 513 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 5: bit with yeah, like the uh, how you can like 514 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 5: capture the human form within like linear experiences of art yea, 515 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 5: even though I would say it's it's hard to usually 516 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 5: view the human form in that fashion because it is 517 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 5: both a linear experience but now it also exists independent 518 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 5: of linear time, Like it is this this thing from before, 519 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 5: but now it could be played in the future and 520 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 5: it's still there in the future, it's still repeating that 521 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 5: same moment. 522 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. 523 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 5: I think the day that this comes out, I'll be 524 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 5: investigating ghosts at the Oregon Ghost Conference. And there's certainly 525 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 5: some people that view ghosts in a similar way. They 526 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 5: view ghosts as like a moment of a person caught 527 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 5: in time that keeps replaying the same action over and 528 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 5: over again. They're not really like even like interactable, but 529 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 5: it's just it's just replaying this thing that like imprinted onto. 530 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 5: Like I don't quite know how tape decks work, but 531 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 5: I assume if you have like two tapes in a 532 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 5: little bit of the first one can get pushed into 533 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 5: the second one if it like is done in directly. 534 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 5: Possibly I'm totally like constructing a terrible metaphor, but as 535 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 5: if like a person going through a specific motion was 536 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 5: so strong or impactful to them that it gets imprinted 537 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 5: on the next person who's going to. 538 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 3: Enter into this space as well. 539 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 5: Right, And there's certainly people that view ghosts in that framework, 540 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 5: which I find to be a really interesting way to 541 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 5: think about that concept. 542 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 2: I like that I have ever told you my theory 543 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: on ghosts. I don't think so My theory on ghosts 544 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: is that I don't believe in ghosts, but it's a 545 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: conscious choice because of the. 546 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 5: Way that I live, Like, I mean, that's more or 547 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 5: less my view on ghosts generally. 548 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I'm like, at some point I was like, 549 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: I you know, I was like, I live in a 550 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 2: van by myself, sleeping in the middle of the woods. 551 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: And then later I was like, now I'm in a 552 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 2: cabin in the middle of the woods, and now I'm 553 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: in a house in the middle of woods. 554 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 5: It just doesn't do me any good believe that, like, 555 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 5: you know, totally something to be around that has mean, 556 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 5: that's that's kind of some more of my like chasmetic background. 557 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: But yes, absolutely, yeah, because I mean, and that doesn't 558 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: make me right or wrong. 559 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 4: It just makes it like it's the way that I. 560 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: Need to cope. 561 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 5: Believing a ghost would just more or less be like 562 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 5: an inconvenience. They start of how the human mind works. Yeah, 563 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 5: sometimes it's easier just be like, nah, I'm just I'm 564 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 5: just not going to deal with that right now. Yeah, 565 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 5: Like I've I've totally thought about which beliefs I currently 566 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 5: hold that would that I would change if I were 567 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 5: to move into like an isolated forested area. Yeah, of 568 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 5: course I would change certain beliefs about how reality works. 569 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 570 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 2: There used to be, like, you know, I used to 571 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: live in this this off grid barn and guests would 572 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 2: stay in the other room in the barn, and they 573 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 2: would like report ghost sightings in this barn. And so 574 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: it came up at a meeting people were like, oh, 575 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: we should talk about the ghost in the barn. And 576 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: I was the only one who lived in the barn 577 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: full time. So I was like, there is no ghost 578 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: in the barn on the agenda. And they were like, 579 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: why are being so dismissed, And I was like, because 580 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: I live here alone. 581 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 5: Like I mean, that is kind of why I appreciate 582 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 5: the role of like the city magician. Because you're surrounded 583 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 5: by people, you have a little bit more flexibility to 584 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 5: allow certain things into your like orbit of being and 585 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 5: like your orbit of experience. But I absolutely like respect 586 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 5: the kind of witches and mystics that like take the 587 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 5: hermit path and and like go out and I can 588 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 5: totally see myself doing that at some point, Like I 589 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 5: totally respect the log Lady journey, yeah, because yeah, I 590 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 5: think that is an incredibly valuable method of kind of 591 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 5: experienced reality, and I think it can it can have 592 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 5: you also be much closer to certain other types of 593 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 5: experiences than in the hustle and bustle and constant like 594 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 5: consciousness and light that is just perforating human cities. 595 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they do. 596 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 2: Both have really specific advantages for like ways of finding wisdom, 597 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: you know, I think that. Yeah, But before we get 598 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: totally off track, we should probably and end this particular episode, 599 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: and to end it with plugs from Edward Morris. Edward 600 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: Morris says broken Eyebooks dot Com is a wonderful small 601 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 2: press that needs everyone's help. They run Gwendolen Kisseday, they 602 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: run Matthew Bartlett, and they gave my highly experimental alphabet 603 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: of Lightning a hope. Alphabet of Lightning is the beginning 604 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: of a novel series called There Was a Crooked Man, 605 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: which is about as long as Dies the Fire or 606 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: maybe Song of Ice and Fire, which are two of 607 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: my favorite book series. So that was promising. I haven't 608 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: read this yet. This story was the first thing I 609 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 2: read by Edward Morris, but I really liked it, so 610 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to look out more. Yeah, it is a challenged, difficult, 611 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 2: challenging and tremendously important work that took me three decades 612 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: to nail, and all my friends who have read it 613 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 2: deliriously love it. So everyone should check out Alphabet of Lightning. 614 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: And if they want to check out you and your 615 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: work and they're not currently listening to that, it could 616 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: happen here feed, but instead listening to my feed, where 617 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: can they find you? 618 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 5: Well, you can find me only it could have it 619 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 5: here feed. I recently put together an update on the 620 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 5: situation in Atlanta, Georgia ree Copcity. I tried to summarize 621 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 5: the past six months of events in like forty five minutes, 622 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 5: so that was a very very interesting task. And then 623 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 5: also I'm I'm You can probably check out my my 624 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 5: feed on Twitter dot com at Hungry Bowtie for some 625 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 5: timely coverage of the Oregon Ghost Conference, which will eventually 626 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 5: turn into some sort of episode, but not not until 627 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 5: I have time to process the experience. The everyone should 628 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 5: check out the Atlanta update. It's a it's a very 629 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 5: good episode. 630 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: And as for me, if you're not listening to this 631 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: on the Cool People Did Cool Stuff Feed, I have 632 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: a podcast It's called Cool People Did Cool Stuff it 633 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: is about cool people who did cool stuff. And also 634 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 2: my most recent substack post is called Afraid of the 635 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,720 Speaker 2: Woman in the Mirror and it is about transness and monstrosity. 636 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: And about becoming Blenny Mary. 637 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 2: And we'll see you all next week. 638 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 3: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 639 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 640 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 5: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 641 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 642 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 5: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 643 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 5: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. 644 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.