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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Joeye, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show. I am so happy that you're here.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Bridget, it's great to be back.

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Speaker 1: So I'll just jump right into it in lieu of banter.

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Speaker 1: I have been dying to get your thoughts on something.

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Speaker 1: Did you see that viral TikTok and the responses to

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Speaker 1: it about the straight sis woman who went to a

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Speaker 1: lesbian bar in Brooklyn with her straight sis male friend

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Speaker 1: and it sounds like maybe the friend was asked to leave.

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Speaker 1: She made a TikTok about it. Do you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about?

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Speaker 3: I did, Yes, I did watch the original video and

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Speaker 3: the follow up and all of.

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Speaker 2: The various commentaries.

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Speaker 1: So many follow ups.

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Speaker 3: There were so many follow ups. So the bar in

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Speaker 3: question actually was not in Brooklyn. It's Cubby Hole, which

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Speaker 3: is in the West Village of Manhattan. I actually have

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Speaker 3: never been there. A big reason why I have not

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Speaker 3: been there is because it's tiny.

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Speaker 2: Like it is a like, and that is something that

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Speaker 2: a lot of the.

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Speaker 3: Kind of commentary on this pointed out as the fact

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Speaker 3: that cubby Hole is like it's it's tiny, it's probably

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Speaker 3: like literally like the size of my apartment. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: this has been all over my TikTok. I could spend

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Speaker 3: the entire episode talking about it. But yeah, no, it

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Speaker 3: was weird. I you know, I feel like this has been.

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Speaker 2: A good reminder that straight women.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes can be just as bad as straight this men

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Speaker 3: in terms of just like absolutely missing the whole situation.

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Speaker 3: I just I don't know my favorite respont so this

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Speaker 3: whole thing so far was like like being like, hey,

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Speaker 3: why do you want to be in the lesbian bar

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Speaker 3: to begin with?

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Speaker 2: Like it's a lesbian bar, Like what are you?

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Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? Like that's such a good

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Speaker 1: point one of the one of the TikTok responses, and

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Speaker 1: something something about this TikTok really got people talking, so

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Speaker 1: if folks, so, just to give a little bit more context,

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Speaker 1: the woman who makes the TikTok is one of those

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Speaker 1: tiktoks where she's doing a story time doing her makeup,

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Speaker 1: and she's explaining how at a night out at cubby Hole,

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Speaker 1: someone that she sort of describes as like a mean

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Speaker 1: lesbian comes up to her friend that is like who,

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Speaker 1: why are you here? Who are you with? And she's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's with me. And as a straight person in a

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Speaker 1: lesbian bar, it's a little bit much to be like,

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Speaker 1: oh he's with me. I'm someone's guest and I have

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Speaker 1: a guest. And so basically she's like, is this a

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Speaker 1: new thing where you're not allowed to be in the

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Speaker 1: lesbian bar if you are straight?

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Speaker 3: She specifically says like, is there a rule like ye, school,

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Speaker 3: and it's like, no, there's no rule.

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Speaker 2: That you can't go to a gay bar if you're straight.

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Speaker 3: It's just there's also no rule that people aren't gonna

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Speaker 3: be like why are you here?

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Speaker 1: Like yes. So the response that I saw that really

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Speaker 1: made me think, well, one, I've never been in the

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Speaker 1: cubby hole either, but seeing how small it is, I

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I can kind of get a sense

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Speaker 1: of like maybe what was going on. Also, that woman

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Speaker 1: who made the first TikTok, she was like, oh there

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Speaker 1: were other men there, you know, like he wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only man there, And so part of me was like

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Speaker 1: nobody was walking up to those people and being like

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Speaker 1: you're straight, what are you doing here? How did someone

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Speaker 1: like I just have a hard time believing that somebody

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Speaker 1: just singled this guy out knew that he was straight,

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Speaker 1: walked up to him and was like, what are you

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Speaker 1: doing here? I feel like something about his behavior, something

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Speaker 1: about what they were doing, must have at least at

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Speaker 1: the very at the very baseline, have been obnoxious, Like

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Speaker 1: in a small space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly did you?

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Speaker 3: Did you see the follow up from the woman who

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Speaker 3: was the lesbian in the video or that was being

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Speaker 3: talked about, She made a follow up and she was

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Speaker 3: like she was just kind of like, yeah, I was

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Speaker 3: like trying to find the bat well. I think she

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Speaker 3: was like trying to find the line for the bathroom,

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Speaker 3: and this dude was in the way, and she asked

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Speaker 3: him if he could like move or like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like he just it sounds like apparently he was just

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Speaker 3: acting sort of weird about it. He was being sort

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Speaker 3: of a dick about it, and she was kind of like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: like are you here with anybody? Like are you here

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Speaker 3: with friends? And he immediately was like, oh well would

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Speaker 3: it would it be okay? It would it not be

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Speaker 3: okay if I wasn't here with anybody?

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Speaker 2: Was like, I don't what is up with straight people?

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Speaker 3: And like straight CIS men specifically like making up fake

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Speaker 3: scenarios where they're being attacked. Like literally nobody he was

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Speaker 3: the one to be like, oh, it wouldn't be not okay,

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I like weird it was.

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Speaker 3: It was good at least to see how quickly I

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Speaker 3: think people jumped to defend the uh supposed me and

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Speaker 3: lesbian in the video and you know, actually address the

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Speaker 3: fact that a lot of the stuff that the original

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Speaker 3: video said were like weirdly homophobic, and even the out

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Speaker 3: the comment about like oh there were all these like

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Speaker 3: flamboyant gay men there and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, and once again like it's a

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Speaker 3: tiny bar, it's a spaceport.

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Speaker 2: Well this is the bigger issue.

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Speaker 3: And I think the reason this like really blew up

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Speaker 3: and like resonated with a lot a lot of people

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Speaker 3: right now is because like there is a tiny number

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Speaker 3: of like lesbian bars that are actually operating in the US.

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Speaker 1: I looked up, only twenty three lesbian bars exist in

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Speaker 1: the United States.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you know, this is in the West Village,

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Speaker 3: which is like where Stonewall is. It's like was the

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Speaker 3: big gay neighborhood for a while in New York now.

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Speaker 2: It really is anymore.

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Speaker 3: But there's all these like really important historic gay bars,

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Speaker 3: and in terms of lesbian bars, it's kind of just

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Speaker 3: like Henrietta's and Cupyhole and that's it.

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Speaker 2: And again Cupyhole is.

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Speaker 3: A tiny space that is like the reason these bars

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Speaker 3: exist is because you know, queer people were excluded from

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Speaker 3: or you know the whole, well, the whole like cis

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Speaker 3: straight woman. Argument is like, oh, well, I just feel

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Speaker 3: more comfortable and like gay bars that I do in

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Speaker 3: straight bar. But then it's like, how do you think

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Speaker 3: gay people feel?

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Speaker 2: Like it is a whole other level. Yeah, which it's

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Speaker 2: so like these these spaces exist for a reason. They

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Speaker 2: exist because they're responding.

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Speaker 3: To the fact that queer people were excluded from straight spaces.

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Speaker 3: And it's so weird now to be seeing straight people

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Speaker 3: be so up in arms about it. Like imagine scenario

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Speaker 3: when they're being told they can't go into the spaces

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Speaker 3: that were created because they excluded.

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Speaker 2: Us from other spaces, Like it's weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's basically like like you can't be in our space, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll make our own space. I want in that space.

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Speaker 2: Right, Look, I know, like queer women are cool now, like.

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Speaker 1: But.

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Speaker 2: Please like just give up. This is like we have

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Speaker 2: so little that is just for I don't know, and

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Speaker 2: even I don't know.

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Speaker 3: There was another TikTok I saw with the whole comment

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Speaker 3: about like, oh well, there were all these gay men there,

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Speaker 3: that was like, hey, it's like weird, how like how

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Speaker 3: do you know they're gay men?

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Speaker 2: Also, it's like, yeah, it's a gay bar. There's gay

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Speaker 2: men at the gay bar.

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Speaker 3: There's gay women that cod to gay male bars that

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Speaker 3: they're like, I don't know. There's just a different like

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Speaker 3: kind of attitude about gender that straight people just like.

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Speaker 2: Do not even want to think about.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? It has been a long time

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Speaker 1: since I've seen something that was regional specific, like happening

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Speaker 1: in one city, circulated in one bar, that got such

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Speaker 1: a big reaction from people who like, maybe you have

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Speaker 1: never even been to New York City. I've never been

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Speaker 1: to that bar. Do you think Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: the feeling of like feeling nationally like queer spaces are

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Speaker 1: being pushed out, and so this need to use online

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Speaker 1: platforms to loudly like say that and to like there's

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Speaker 1: like a chorus of people who are like actually this

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Speaker 1: is really messed up. Here's why do you think that's

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Speaker 1: what's going on and why it resonated so much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's like exactly that.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just, you know, whatever part of the

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Speaker 3: country you're in, you know, either your rights are actively

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Speaker 3: like being debated in your state government right now, or

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Speaker 3: being taken away from you, or yeah, you're briefly keep

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Speaker 3: if you're in a place like New York that's like

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Speaker 3: supposed to be more accepting, but these queer spaces are

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Speaker 3: becoming like few and far apart, and uh, there's been

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Speaker 3: more and more sort of co opting of those spaces

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Speaker 3: by straight folks, and I think, you know, I think that, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it is like a big part of this is just

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Speaker 3: that it's part of this bigger trend of like these

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Speaker 3: spaces closing and going away, and then also the few

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Speaker 3: spaces we have left straight people coming into them and

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Speaker 3: only really coming in to sort of prove that they

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Speaker 3: can be there, which seems to be the biggest issue here. Like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, that's just the thing that gets me

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Speaker 3: every time, is it's this whole like this whole conflict.

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Speaker 2: Ay, they kind of.

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Speaker 3: Made it, not made it up, but it was like

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Speaker 3: an imagined thing, like nobody was telling him he couldn't

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Speaker 3: be there. And then also it's like, but yeah, why

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Speaker 3: are you like so insistent on invading this ban, which

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Speaker 3: it's interesting, like what as somebody there was a one

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Speaker 3: of the videos that I saw like responding to this

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Speaker 3: was like talking about how you know, originally there was

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Speaker 3: all these like straight women that were coming to gay

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Speaker 3: bars because they were like you know, quote unquote felt

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Speaker 3: more safe there, and then would sometimes not all the times,

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Speaker 3: but like occasionally then you know, act in a way

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Speaker 3: that was making the gay patrons of the bar not

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Speaker 3: feel safe. And then also now it's happening is a

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Speaker 3: lot of like straight cis men are coming into gay

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Speaker 3: bars and are coming into gay male bars quote unquote

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Speaker 3: or like lesbian bars or whatever, because they're following these

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Speaker 3: like straight women that are going there. And now it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like I've had the experience of being hit on by

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Speaker 3: sis straight men at a lesbian bar and is so infuriating.

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Speaker 1: It's like is there nowhere where like heterosexuality doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be centered like there's a gay bar.

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Speaker 3: Right And the stupidest thing about it is like these

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Speaker 3: are the same people that then are gonna come to

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Speaker 3: that and be like, oh, well, look do you how

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Speaker 3: do you do you know that I'm It's just people

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Speaker 3: know that fears Like nobody who's not a CIS man

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Speaker 3: would respond to that with like, oh well, look, how

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Speaker 3: did you know that I'm Like.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's so stupid. It's like.

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Speaker 3: It's this like self victimization going into the spaces of

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Speaker 3: the people that you're actually oppressing, or like, you know,

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Speaker 3: have I've created these oppressive structures for Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyways, Yeah, clearly I have a lot of feelings about this.

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Speaker 1: No I thought you would. I'm glad to get your takes.

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Speaker 1: I have a this might be a hot take. I

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Speaker 1: agree with everything that you've laid out. It makes so

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Speaker 1: much sense. I would also yes, and that and add

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Speaker 1: I think there was something about that original person, that

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Speaker 1: original woman's TikTok where it just sounded so smug and

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Speaker 1: like self assured. And let me just say this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I had gone out to any kind of space

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Speaker 1: where someone came up to me and it became clear

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Speaker 1: that I was doing something that was making them uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: it was making them feel some kind of a way

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Speaker 1: they didn't want me there. They were asking me questions

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Speaker 1: about you know why I was there. I don't think

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Speaker 1: after the fact I would I would make a video

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Speaker 1: that was like okay, so I made them uncomfortable, Like

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I was. I was surprised

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Speaker 1: how how comfortable she was taking the position of we've

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Speaker 1: done nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong. It's actually this big,

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Speaker 1: mean lesbian who's done something wrong. That was really I

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Speaker 1: think there's something about that that just like gets under it.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of gets under people's skin. And maybe

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why people are like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta sbit some facts for that.

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Speaker 3: This one, well, it's I mean, she's like doing her

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Speaker 3: makeup in the video and look like look usually I

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Speaker 3: have not for like internet pilods people like whatever.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes people do stupid things and make mistakes. In this case, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's the like smugness of it.

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Speaker 3: And then she ended up like deleting it and making

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Speaker 3: an apology video and then later deleted the apology video.

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Speaker 3: But in the apology video, she's a still doing her makeup.

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Speaker 2: Well, she's doing it.

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Speaker 3: That's a whole thing, And she says it in the

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Speaker 3: same tone where she's like, I was just asking a

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Speaker 3: like question, Like I don't understand you were not just

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Speaker 3: asking a question. Like you cannot come in and like

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Speaker 3: spew homophobic kind of tropes and then expect people not

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Speaker 3: to get mad about that. You cannot go into a

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Speaker 3: queer space and like yeah, create like have that kind

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Speaker 3: of response and then be surprised when people react negatively

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Speaker 3: to you, you know, doing.

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Speaker 1: That, Yes, and let's be real, like there is a

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Speaker 1: tone of voice, like there is a way to convey

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Speaker 1: seriousness via a TikTok doing your makeup and being like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just asking questions. Everybody knows what you are trying

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Speaker 1: to convey. It is very clear what you're trying to convey.

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Speaker 1: I really don't like it when people make content like

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Speaker 1: that and then they try to they try to like

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Speaker 1: throw a rock and hide their hands. It's like, you

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Speaker 1: clearly made this video, you know, don't try to act

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Speaker 1: like you were just asking questions and you weren't trying

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Speaker 1: to be disrespectful or smug. Now, if that's how you feel,

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Speaker 1: that's how you feel. It's like a there's this thing

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Speaker 1: online that I see a lot where people will be

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Speaker 1: trying to convey a certain tone or a certain smugness

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Speaker 1: or a flippancy if that's a word. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Check check that if that is or not. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But and then when they're called on it, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's just I wasn't I didn't mean it that way.

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Speaker 1: I feel like she meant it how she meant it,

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Speaker 1: it was received the way that it was intended. And

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Speaker 1: the fact that she had to delete her apology video

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Speaker 1: as well. I don't know, I really it really tells

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Speaker 1: me something.

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Speaker 2: Right, like, that's not an apology. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I look, I think straight women, straight white women like

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Speaker 3: y'all can be just as homophobic as your straight boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 3: But anyways, I could go on about this for the

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Speaker 3: whole episode.

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Speaker 2: Bridget. I'm sure you've got many more stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Blue Sky. So Blue Sky, for folks

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Speaker 1: who don't know, is a Twitter alternative funded by Twitter

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Speaker 1: co founder Jack Dorsey. It used to be invite only,

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Speaker 1: and there was a time where people would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: who has a Blue Sky invite? Like, who's got a code?

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Speaker 1: Who's got a code? Well, good news if you're interested

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Speaker 1: in checking it out. Blue Sky is now available to everyone.

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Speaker 1: So blue Sky, I've used it a bit. It's it

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Speaker 1: looks a lot. It looks and feels a lot like Twitter. However,

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Speaker 1: it is open source, so that means that there is

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Speaker 1: more transparency into how it is run because it is

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Speaker 1: open source. So tech Crunch had a piece that really

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Speaker 1: put this into perspective. Before opening to the public, Blue

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Speaker 1: Sky had about three million sign ups now that anybody

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Speaker 1: can join. Can Blue Sky meaningfully stand up to threads

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Speaker 1: is one hundred and thirty million monthly active users or

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Speaker 1: Mastodon's one point eight million active users. It is a

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Speaker 1: fair question. The answer is I don't know. TBD. However,

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Speaker 1: I I don't know. I think it's kind of exciting. Like,

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, I am definitely experiencing a kind

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Speaker 1: of like fatigue slash exhaustion in our current digital media

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Speaker 1: landscape where you know, I just feel like you're meant

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Speaker 1: to be everywhere, You're meant to be branding yourself everywhere

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Speaker 1: if you want to do anything at all, and the

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Speaker 1: you know, the landscape keep shifting beneath my feet, and

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Speaker 1: SOA's like, oh, here's how you succeed on Twitter here,

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Speaker 1: and then that changes, and then it's like, oh, here's

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Speaker 1: how you succeed on Instagram, and then that changes. And

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Speaker 1: I am feeling a little bit of fatigue of feeling

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Speaker 1: like I have to show up everywhere and not really

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Speaker 1: knowing how to do that, and feeling like that is

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Speaker 1: like tied to my success as a creative person. That's

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Speaker 1: a whole other conversation. However, I don't know. I'm choosing

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Speaker 1: to sort of be excited about Blue Sky opening up

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Speaker 1: to everybody. I am really challenging myself to use Twitter less.

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Speaker 1: I deleted it from my phone and that's really helped.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that showing up on Twitter is good

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Speaker 1: for me anymore, and so I'm excited about just having

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Speaker 1: a new platform. In the mix, Joey, have you ever

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Speaker 1: used a Blue Sky?

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Speaker 2: I have not yet.

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Speaker 3: I also kind of had some men of like I

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Speaker 3: don't know, like round this was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I came out when there were all these like Twitter

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Speaker 3: knock off platforms that were coming out, and I think

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Speaker 3: I've made.

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Speaker 2: A mastered on account. I made an account for one

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't remember which app it was, which I

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Speaker 3: think is so telling of just like how much stuff

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Speaker 3: was coming out then I like, but yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: I'm also like, I haven't really used my Twitter much

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Speaker 3: in the past couple of months, kind of been switched

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Speaker 3: over to like TikTok and and and Instagram with that.

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Speaker 2: But you know, this is good here.

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Speaker 3: I feel like Blue Skuy is one of the ones

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Speaker 3: that I like heard about early on and I still

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Speaker 3: care about. So maybe maybe it's maybe it's taking off.

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Speaker 3: Who's to say Threads has been disappointing.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I'm really trying. I mean, if folks

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Speaker 1: are having experiences with new platforms, let me know how

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Speaker 1: those experiences are going. I've tried Threats, so I've tried Threads,

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Speaker 1: I've tried Spill. We had a senior leader from Spill

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Speaker 1: on the podcast a few months ago. She was great, like,

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Speaker 1: really made me excited for the platform. My not using

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Speaker 1: it a lot is not an indication that it's not

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Speaker 1: a good platform. It's just like again that fatigue I

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Speaker 1: was speaking to you earlier. Masddon, I tried. Producer Mike

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Speaker 1: really enjoys Mastadon. Masddon just doesn't feel weird enough for me.

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Speaker 1: I kind of need a little bit of like a

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Speaker 1: little bit of freaky d he in my social media platforms.

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Speaker 1: I need to be like, there are weirdos here doing

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Speaker 1: Weirdoh shit, that's what I think makes is the secret

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Speaker 1: sauce of social media platforms. Mastadon. It's like smart people

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Speaker 1: having smart conversations. But like, no, as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: nobody is like getting weird. Maybe that's there and I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it, and I haven't really used it a ton,

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Speaker 1: So if it's there, let me know. Threads I feel

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Speaker 1: is similar, Yeah, Threads. Every time I open Threads, it

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Speaker 1: is just people that I like, like podcast people, creative people,

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Speaker 1: people who make things, journalists, whatever, media folks kind of

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Speaker 1: bemoaning rightly so, but bemoaning the state of media right now.

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Speaker 1: And I'm depressed as enough as it is. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like opening my social media platform and being

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Speaker 1: reminded of all the stuff I'm not doing and need

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Speaker 1: to be doing in the ways that I'm falling behind

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Speaker 1: in like digitally marketing myself. And I think that on Threads,

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Speaker 1: I feel like the people who are really showing up

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Speaker 1: and showing out on Threads are the people who are like,

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Speaker 1: I need to use this platform to like, grow my platform,

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Speaker 1: grow my own brand, grow my platform, which I get

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Speaker 1: and respect, but I don't know. Part of why I

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Speaker 1: use social media is just for fun, for shits and giggles,

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Speaker 1: And something about thread just makes me feel this reminds

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Speaker 1: me of all the ways that I'm not setting up

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Speaker 1: the sub stack or not doing the things I should do.

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Speaker 1: It's just a space where I think folks feel really

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Speaker 1: concerned about, you know, using platforms for their own brand.

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Speaker 1: Blue Sky. When I first got it, it was sort

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Speaker 1: of like memes and jokes and people like it kind

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Speaker 1: of felt like the early days of social media. But

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Speaker 1: I haven't really used it enough to really say what

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Speaker 1: it's like now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I it'll be interesting to see what happens with it.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I've had, yeah, the same experience with Threads,

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Speaker 3: where it feels so corporate, it feels so like so

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Speaker 3: much of what I'm saying is like brands, and it

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Speaker 3: almost kind of feels like the like cleaned up version

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Speaker 3: of what's happening on Twitter right now, where I'm getting

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Speaker 3: a lot of tweets stuff that I don't care about,

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Speaker 3: but instead of like Twitter just being like off the rails,

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Speaker 3: weird stuff like Threads is just the most like mild

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Speaker 3: centrist middle of the line, but also still weird and

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Speaker 3: like kind of offensive stuff going around. It feels like

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Speaker 3: I which, yeah, they're definitely like it's the same thing

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Speaker 3: what you said about like Massa not not really having

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Speaker 3: that like weird space.

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Speaker 2: Like I feel like Threads.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't have that either, But it doesn't even have like

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Speaker 3: the people having.

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Speaker 2: Nice interesting conversations too.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, I don't know, just very corporate, very

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Speaker 3: brand friendly.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I feel the exact same way. It's like weirdly

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Speaker 1: offensive but somehow also boring at the same time. It's

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Speaker 1: like this is not even engaging but also weirdly I

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Speaker 1: feel a little offended by it. Right, So we're actually

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Speaker 1: going to be speaking on the podcast with someone from

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Speaker 1: Blue Sky very soon, So if you want to try

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Speaker 1: it out, now is a good time to do that.

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Speaker 1: And if you use a blue Sky and have questions

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00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: for senior folks there, let me know and I will

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Speaker 1: ask them when we have them on the podcast. And

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Speaker 1: in the meantime, you can follow me on blue Sky

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Speaker 1: where I am bridget Todd first name, last name, because

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Speaker 1: I was an early adopter so I got the like

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00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: first name, last name, but follow me there. I don't

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Speaker 1: post a goddamn thing, but if you want to follow

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Speaker 1: me you can.

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Speaker 3: You know what, maybe I'll make mine after this The

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Speaker 3: next step sod all be I'll have a blue sky.

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Speaker 2: To yes for everybody.

437
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:08,239
Speaker 1: Follow Joey on Blue Sky Name TVD. Yeah, let's take

438
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: a quick break at our back. Okay, So we talked

439
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: before about how people are using AI to manipulate women's

440
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: images to make them appear undressed. We talked about that

441
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift deep fakes. We've talked about deep fakes to

442
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: make women it look nude or look like they're in

443
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: sexual situations. Well, now we have people who are using

444
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: that same AI technology to add clothing to women who

445
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: want to appear undressed in online images. And it really

446
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: all boils down to the same thing, people using tech

447
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: to take away someone's agency in terms of how they

448
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: want to present themselves online. So Dignify ai is a

449
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: social media count that has almost three thousand followers where

450
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: they use AI to put clothes on to women's images

451
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: online and cover them up. So what the account will

452
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 1: do will be like directly applying to women who who

453
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 1: post pictures of themselves in like bikinis or whatever, and

454
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: they will post pictures of them in various stages of

455
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: undress that these women have voluntarily put online, next to

456
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: images that they have used AI to manipulate and edited

457
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 1: them to look more modest and covered up. They will

458
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: usually have some kind of a mocking caption that's like

459
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: keep your dignity or here, I used AI to give

460
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: you your dignity back. So in case someone is thinking like, oh, well,

461
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: maybe they're doing this legitimately because they want to empower

462
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: women somehow, like maybe they think like, oh, this is

463
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: really like I'm really like doing the right thing here.

464
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: It is pretty clearly done as a troll. Media Matters

465
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 1: reported that folks who were posting these kind of images

466
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: were saying things like, quote AI porn makes them angry,

467
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: but use AI to clothe them, remove their tattoos and piercings.

468
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: The seething will echo through the ages. Media Matters reports

469
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: at that same user then said that it would be

470
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: mimetic perfection and likened it to the four Chance campaigns.

471
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: Islam is right about women and it's okay to be white.

472
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: So this is not done for any kind of like,

473
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean, even if even if these people were thinking like, oh,

474
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: we're like supporting and empowering the women, that would still

475
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: be no good. But these people are pretty clearly just

476
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: trying to shame women who put their images out onto

477
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: the internet.

478
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so gross first of all.

479
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: Second of all, how big of a loser do you

480
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: have to be, like photoshop clothing back on to somebody, Like,

481
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's so stupid.

482
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: It is already so like demeaning and I don't know.

483
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 3: It's the whole thing about, Yeah, you can't be anything

484
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: if you're a woman, you're wearing too much clothes or

485
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: too little clothes or whatever. You're getting your clothes foot

486
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: to shopped off you were on you but already Yeah,

487
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: like damn, that's so weird.

488
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's like you really nailed it. It's like,

489
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: if you are modestly dressed online, they will use AI

490
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: and technology to make you appear undressed. If you're like, okay,

491
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: I want to be not really dressed online, they will

492
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: use technology to make you appear more dressed. It's like,

493
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: the point it doesn't matter how you show up online.

494
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: The point is they should be the ones deciding how

495
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: you show up online, not you. It's like, like this

496
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: whole thing about giving women dignity. Not only is that

497
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: obviously meant to be a troll, but it's not about

498
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: that at all. It is about control and humiliation and

499
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: shame and using technology to strip the agency away from people.

500
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: Like that's like clearly what it's about.

501
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like and just to be clear, like what if

502
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: yeah if that's if you find it empowering to be

503
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: more modest or to dress more modest modestly.

504
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: Like all power to you.

505
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: Love that like them in and people should be able

506
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: to wear whatever they want, you know, like I'll support

507
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: that idea, but yeah, it is it's it's so it's

508
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: so weird and like gross and it the at the

509
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: end of the day, it's about being.

510
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: Able to control women's bodies.

511
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 3: It's not about what's empowering to them or what's dignifying

512
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: to them.

513
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: It's about you being able to say what they're wearing exactly.

514
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: It is about taking away control and agency. Like if

515
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: you want to dress modestly or not dress modestly, the

516
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: point is it should be up to you, not a

517
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: bunch of chuds on four chand who are using AI

518
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: to strip you of that choice, and I think it's

519
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: telling that they're not just putting clothes on them, they're

520
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: removing their tattoos and piercings and changing their hair color.

521
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: So obviously this is not just about how they choose

522
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: to dress, it is how they choose to present themselves physically.

523
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: Right wing online provocateur Ian Miles Cheong wrote, when given

524
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: pictures of thirst traps, AI imagines what could have been

525
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: if they had been raised by strong fathers. Yeah.

526
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Also, you know that those.

527
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: Like dresses are probably like super ugly, like let's be rid, Yes,

528
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: probably put in the ugliest outfits where it's like nobody

529
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 3: would wear this to begin with.

530
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so weird.

531
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: So NBC talked to Isla David, a sex worker and

532
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: sex educator who is one of the women who somebody

533
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: used AI to make her appear more modest, and she

534
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: really nails the way this conversation is really not about sex,

535
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: it is about using technology to humiliate and shame women.

536
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: She said, it does not matter whether you're a woman

537
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: like Taylor Swift who is denying access to her nude

538
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: body or someone like me who is offering access to

539
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: my nude body. It is a tool to ensure that

540
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: women never retain soul autonomy over our body and images online.

541
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: She also goes further to say that she thinks that

542
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: these images really fit into the current tread wife social

543
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: media trend and that these guys are using AI to

544
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 1: turn her into this kind of fac modest woman who

545
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: is a traditional wife who dresses modestly and has kids

546
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: around her. But that's not who she is, and they're

547
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: using technology to sort of be like, oh, well, this

548
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: is what she would look like if she had made

549
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: better choices. NBC spoke to mike's Stable, the director of

550
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: public affairs for the Free Speech Coalition, which which is

551
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: an organization that lobbies on behalf of the adult industry,

552
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: who said, this is about controlling representations of women in society.

553
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: It's that ultimately women cannot be trusted to make their

554
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: own decisions about whether or take off their clothes, get tattoos,

555
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: or put on clothes. It's infantilization and ultimately, these men

556
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: by and large are going to make the decision. If

557
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: you don't want to do it, at least in their world,

558
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 1: they're going to change that. And I do think that

559
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: this is sort of grounded in this attitude that women

560
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: are not capable of, or do not deserve, control over

561
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: our bodies and the decisions that we make for ourselves.

562
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: And so you know, all that is to say, we've

563
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: been talking a lot about deep stakes and AI and

564
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: the intersections of identity, but really AI and deep THINKES

565
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: is a is a tool. What this is really about

566
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: is this pervasive attitude that marginalized people we don't deserve

567
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: to control our own our own choices, and our own bodies,

568
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: and the way that this technology is being used to

569
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: further that attitude.

570
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's it's so like weird and gross.

571
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm so stuck at it.

572
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: There's something so particularly I hate I hate that he

573
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: that late earlier you mentioned that one of them, like

574
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: in this four Chane Threads said something about like, oh,

575
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 3: people are more mad about you removing the tattoos and

576
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: making them more modest than they are about leaking their nudes.

577
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: But in a weird way.

578
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: It almost is kind of like it's not grosser obviously

579
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: like leaking or like fake nudes or like that's terrible,

580
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: it's gross, but it's like it's so weird to be

581
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: putting to Yeah, like to be not just like hyper

582
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: sexualizing somebody, but putting them into this mold of who

583
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: you think they should be based on like gendered expectations,

584
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, there's this weird like we're in such

585
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: a weird moment right now too, which I was just

586
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: on stuff Mom never told you talking about some of

587
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 3: the sort of like treads on TikTok right now around

588
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: girlhood and like womanhood. But we're in such a weird

589
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: point where there has been a really really strong, like

590
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: kind of resurgence to like in resurgence of like pressure

591
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: to go into these very gender and very highly gendered

592
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: molds and very you know, particularly for women.

593
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: Like there's this this.

594
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: This return of like the trad wife is kind of

595
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: it's you know, everybody obviously like kind of knows the

596
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 3: trad wife is like the most extreme, but there's been

597
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: all these weird sort of pressures for women to like

598
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 3: become more feminine and present more feminine, and it just

599
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: this just feels like another manifestation of that that's so

600
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: weird and creepy and the meaning and not not great

601
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 3: for like the future to come, I guess.

602
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you who there is nothing wrong with

603
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: me and a girly girl. I would necessarily consider myself

604
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: a girly girl, but like, if that's what you want

605
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: to do, you should do that, and that's I like, Yes, However,

606
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: I do think that you're right. There is something I

607
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: think there we're experiencing something that's like if you aren't

608
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: like obviously it's better if you don't have tattoos, have

609
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: your natural hair color, or modestly dressed, have kids around you.

610
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: And even if that's even if that's not the choice

611
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: that you have made for yourself in your life, someone

612
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: out there is going to use technology to give the

613
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: world a window into what it would look like if

614
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: you had made this choice that we all know is better,

615
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, And I do think there's something we're just

616
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't wait to listen to your

617
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: episode on stuff Mom Never told You, because there is

618
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: I do think there's something going on with feminine like

619
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: hyper feminine accessories and bows and like, I don't know something.

620
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: I think we're in an interesting moment and I can't

621
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: wait to hear your takes on stuff I'm Ever told you.

622
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, I have been.

623
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: There is a point of the episode where I try

624
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 3: to explain what Coquette is too.

625
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: I'm really badly trying.

626
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 3: To explain what Coquette is to Samantha, But I definitely

627
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 3: kind of go back onto a whole episode about Cocatt

628
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: because the same like all, if that is what like

629
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: the kind of aesthetics and like fashion you're into, love

630
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: that for you, Like a lot of that stuff is

631
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: really cool and really cute. That being said, whatever, it's

632
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: a like pressure to put this onto other people. I

633
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: am not a feminine person at all. That is just

634
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: not a way that I'm comfortable presenting. If somebody were

635
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: to take a photo of me and like photoshop my

636
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 3: hair longer and like a dress.

637
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: Like that's gross. That is so weird and gross. And yeah,

638
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: it's just everything is weird. There's genders weird, gender is weird.

639
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: I think we should just not police each other's genders.

640
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: That would be really nice.

641
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and certainly not policing it via AI deep

642
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: fakes of strangers, because that's just weird. Let's let's not

643
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: do it. Stop doing that. It's gross. It's weird. It's

644
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: not the like epic troll you think it is. It

645
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: just makes you look really weird. So if You're like,

646
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: that's not that anybody who does that is listening.

647
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: This is like the male version of like, oh my god,

648
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 3: I could save her, I could fix her, I can

649
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 3: remove her tattoos.

650
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: He's like, AI more after a quick break, let's get

651
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: right back into it. Okay, speaking of creepy growth guys

652
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: and technology, is there something you want to ask me, Joey?

653
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, Bridget what has Elon jone?

654
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: Now? Well, Elon has doing a couple of things. First,

655
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: he is funding actor Gina Carreno from The Mandalorian. He's

656
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: funding her lawsuit. So remember way back when when Elon

657
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: Musk was like, anybody who faces repercussions for things they

658
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: say on Twitter, I will pay for their legal I

659
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: will pay for their legal defense. There is no limit.

660
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: I gotta eat crow on this one. Because people who

661
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: listen to this show regularly know that whenever there is

662
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: a financial promise being made from Elon Musk, I'm always like,

663
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: he's not gonna do it. Don't take that deal. He's

664
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: not gonna do it. But apparently he is making good

665
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: on that promise because he's funding Gina's lawsuit against Disney

666
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: from after she aspired from the Mandalorian.

667
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: But he's doing it for this, Does this mean he's

668
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 3: gonna do it for every single lawsuit?

669
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: I don't know. Still, I still think you have.

670
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: Some some truth there with I mean, maybe not the

671
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 3: most like there are.

672
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there are plenty of people who have

673
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: been who have been like let go from their jobs

674
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: for speaking up for Palestine or drug like. I would

675
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: be curious to know where this begins and ends with

676
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, like you, Joey, I suspect that he might

677
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: do this one time and then make a big show

678
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: of this if he pays. Lawsuits are expensive, they involve

679
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: lots of recurring bills. So I mean, I'm basically saying like,

680
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me if he's like, I'll pay one bill,

681
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: but I'm not paying all the bills. We will see, however,

682
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: I bet that this will not be a recurring thing.

683
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: That he will not take up the cause of anybody

684
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: who faces repercussions for what they post on Twitter. So

685
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: did you watch The Mandalorian at all?

686
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 2: I did. I have not.

687
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 3: Watched the most recent season because I heard it wasn't

688
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: very good, but I watched the first two.

689
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole thing was weird.

690
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: So basically she was let go from The Mandalorian after

691
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: tweeting some like conspiracy theory kind of vibes. So what

692
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: does she tweet exactly? I would say it's kind of

693
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: your garden variety takes, Like she tweeted Jeff Epstein didn't

694
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: kill himself. Of course, Also remember this was in twenty twenty.

695
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: It just the vibes were like very people had a lot.

696
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: There was a lot going on in twenty twenty. I

697
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: guess I'll just say that. And so this was back

698
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: when Yeah, I don't I don't know if you remember.

699
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I joke, but I literally had to like

700
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: going back to that mentally. I was like, oh, yeah,

701
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: that did happen. Oh yeah, that did happen. Like in

702
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I feel like I've blocked a

703
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: lot of that out and so yes, and so this

704
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: was back when like people were acting like being asked

705
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: to wear a mask was the biggest civil rights violation

706
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: of our time. And so I think she'd had a

707
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: tweet where I guess she was comparing like people who

708
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: didn't want to wear masks to Jewish people during the Holocaus.

709
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: She tweeted most people today don't realize that to get

710
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: to the point where Nazi shouldiers could easily round up

711
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors

712
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any

713
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: different from hating someone for their political views? So that

714
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: was a tweet. This one, I think is pretty funny.

715
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: She tweeted a picture of two men wearing masks over

716
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: their eyes with the cab. Democratic government leaders now recommend

717
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: we all wear blindfolds along with masks so we can't

718
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: see what's really going on. I gotta say, when I

719
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: was like eighteen, I might have snuck a retweet on

720
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: that one like that that would have spoken to young

721
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: me like, yeah, they don't want us to see the truth.

722
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: They want us in blindfolds. And then I have a

723
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: drawn anarchy symbol on my notebooks.

724
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you know what I mean?

725
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: There's something very like that's.

726
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: The most I've met one of many annoying, horrible things

727
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 3: about this. It's like sometimes these like weird orating people

728
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: will say stuff that it's.

729
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: Like, oh, that is kind of funny. I can't do it,

730
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: Like you're crazy, but that's all right.

731
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: I completely agree, Like, oh, I'll oh, this is like

732
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: y'all know, I have my problematic thaves. Whoever was the

733
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: first person to come up with chillery Kilton and then

734
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: the s is a dollar time. I'm gonna give it

735
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: to you on that one. I was like that one,

736
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: that's it's it's not like I like no, but like

737
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: it was clever. I see what you did there. Like

738
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: sometimes they sometimes they come up with these turns of

739
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: phrases and some are better than others. Because I remember

740
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight it was oh bummer and

741
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that one you could have like

742
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: workshopped that one a little better, like that didn't have.

743
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: The yeah, like thanks Obama, that was a good one,

744
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 3: Like yeah, respond with like thanks Obama.

745
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: Thanks bomba.

746
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

747
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you know when you're right here. Yeah, that

748
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: one didn't hit. I'm gonna give that a two out

749
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: of ten on that one. So she was really not

750
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: into the time. In twenty twenty when there was restrictions

751
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: on people gathering, she tweeted, open up your businesses in

752
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: churches because people are dropping like flies from depression and

753
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: suicide overdoses, murder all caps. Her tweets about the twenty

754
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: twenty election are very interesting to me, she tweet. We

755
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: need to clean up the election process so that we're

756
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: not left feeling the way we do today. Put laws

757
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: in place that protect us against voter fraud, investigate every state,

758
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: film the counting, flush out fake votes, require ID make

759
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: voter fraud end in twenty twenty, fix the system. So

760
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: that might all sound reasonable on the surface, but we

761
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: saw so much of that sentiment after the election, because

762
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: like you had people like Evanka Trump being like, oh,

763
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: count every legal vote, which again sounds reasonable, but it

764
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: gives the impression as if there is widespread voter fraud

765
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: and voting irregularities, which just is not happening. It's never happened.

766
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: It's not a thing. But when you say, like, I

767
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: just think we should count every legal vote. I just

768
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: think that we should make sure that you know we're

769
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: not counting fake votes. It really it's like a tricky

770
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:55,479
Speaker 1: way of sowing distrust in our voting process, because that's

771
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: like not there aren't widespread voting irregularities, and so when

772
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: you adopt this lang which that makes it seem like

773
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: there are, it's a very sly way of just kind

774
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: of like chipping away at people's confidence in our democratic process.

775
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: So this last one is also really interesting to me.

776
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: She tweeted, I'm not against trans lives at all. They

777
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: need to find less abusive representation. And so when she

778
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: tweeted that, there was some back and forth on Twitter

779
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: where basically it seemed like what she was saying was like,

780
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with trans people. No, no, no, no,

781
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm out of trans phobe. I just think there's

782
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: spokespeople are very mean. Like that seemed to be like

783
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: what she was trying to get at.

784
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: Wait, I see these were finally adjusting the real problems

785
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 3: in this episodes, the mean trans people and the mean

786
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: lesbians that are kicking the straight people out of lesbian

787
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: bars and star wars.

788
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: Very mean, very rude. Did not care for your tone.

789
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember like all of this going down, because yeah,

790
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: I think like at the time the Mandaloriin was still

791
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: like a really big show, and I remember all this

792
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: going down, and it was like one thing after another

793
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 3: room it was like like come on, like you're also

794
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: like you're so I don't Yeah, yeah, it was it

795
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: was like what are the most despicable but also just

796
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 3: like stupid takes.

797
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 2: I can take.

798
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I actually think that that's exactly what happened here.

799
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Like I have no inside information from Disney or Lucasfilms

800
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I bet that when you are a

801
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: very much a supporting actor in a piece, I bet

802
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: that they were just like, this is not worth a headache.

803
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,439
Speaker 1: After a while, like thing after thing after thing after

804
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: a thing, I can imagine they're just like, we gotta

805
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: get rid of this person because they are just like

806
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: going rogue on Twitter and we can't have it. Like

807
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: I could see if it was just one or two tweets,

808
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: but like I can understand why this was not something

809
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: Disney was thrilled about getting brought into or mired into,

810
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: and were just like, oh, it's easier just to just

811
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: to not recast her. So, according to The Hollywood Reporter,

812
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: the complaint that she filed and a California federal court

813
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: alleges that she was fired for voicing right being opinions

814
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: on social media and seeks a court order that would

815
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: force Lucasfilms to recast her in The Mandalorian. According to

816
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: the complaint, Disney and Lucasfilms harassed and defamed her for

817
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: refusing to conform with their viewpoints on issues relating to

818
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter pronouns, and disproven claims of election interference.

819
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: While she was allegedly fired for her cultural and religious beliefs,

820
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: she argues that the entertainment giant turned a blind eye

821
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: to her male co stars who allegedly made offensive comments

822
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: directed toward Republicans. She points to Pedro Pascal's twenty seventeen

823
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: post comparing Donald Trump to Hitler, so when she says

824
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: that she has a gender discrimination complaint, she's saying that, like, oh,

825
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: they did this because I was a woman. Pedro Pascal

826
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,959
Speaker 1: can compare Trump to Hitler, but I can't like say

827
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: my conspiracy theories without being fired. I will say. The

828
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 1: suit does kind of make it seem like Disney gave

829
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: her a few outs. The suit says that Disney required

830
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: her to meet with a representative from the Gay and

831
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: Lesbian Alliance Against Discrimination and demanded a public apology. She refused,

832
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: and after she refused, she was told to meet with

833
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: Lucasfilm's president, Kathleen Kennedy and forty five employees who identify

834
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: as LGBTQ plus. According to the suit, she declined and

835
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: was terminated shortly thereafter from The Mandalorian, as well as

836
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: other titles in the Star Wars universe, including Rangers of

837
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 1: the New Republic. So it kind of sounds like that

838
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: tweet that she made about trans people meeting better representation

839
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: or whatever, it sounds like maybe that was like a

840
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: real sticking point with Disney because they were like, oh,

841
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: you need to meet with Glad, you need to meet

842
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: with LGBTQ folks, and she declined. And she says that

843
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: because Disney terminated her, that was the impetus for Uta

844
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: and her lawyer both dropping her as a client, which

845
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: to me is kind of It does kind of seem like,

846
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, if you tweet some spicy takes and then

847
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: your lawyer and your agent are like, we don't want

848
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: to be associated with this. That's not I'm not a lawyer,

849
00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: but I don't see how that Disney's fault. You're the

850
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: one who said it, Like, I don't kind of get

851
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: it right.

852
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also always weird that she's the argument she's

853
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 3: making is it's her culture. She was fired for her

854
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 3: cultural and religious beliefs, Like.

855
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's the whole thing.

856
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 3: Is like weird break wing Christian like people are saying

857
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 3: that like homophobian transphobia is whatever, it's a part of

858
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: our religious police. But it's like what like being I

859
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 3: don't know that's it just feels like that feels like

860
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: such a stretch of cultural and religious beliefs, especially if

861
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: you're saying the like cultural and like the equivalent of

862
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: that is like Petro Piscoal making fun of Donald Trump. Like,

863
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's such a stretch. I also cannot

864
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 3: emphasize this like enough. She played like a tiny role

865
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 3: as like a space cop in Star Wars. And this

866
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: was also around the time when like the Mandalorian was

867
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 3: doing really good, so they had announced like a ton

868
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 3: of new TV shows, half of which have already been canceled.

869
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: So it's like, I don't know, like I feel like

870
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: one of those things where it's like I don't necessarily

871
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: think her career was like headed in a really like

872
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: you know, prestigious direction if it weren't for all of it,

873
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: Like it is like kind of I don't know, it

874
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 3: feels like this is a really convenient opportunity for her

875
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,959
Speaker 3: to stay relevant. Is I guess maybe where I'm going

876
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: with this, But yeah, this whole thing is so weird.

877
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: Joey, are you suggesting this is a stunt?

878
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: What?

879
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely not?

880
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 2: What she's like besties with Ben Shapiro too? What?

881
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: I know? It's bad. So Twitter can't figure out how

882
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: to keep deep fakes off their platform, but they've got

883
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: time for this. And in case you're curious, what else

884
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: Elon Musk has been up to you so ironically, while

885
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 1: he's been funding Gina Carano's sexual harassment suit against Disney,

886
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: Elon Musk himself is simultaneously being hit with yet another

887
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: sexual harassment lawsuit. Let's talk about it. So, I know,

888
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: so surprise. Who could have ever seen a coming? It

889
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: might shock y'all to know this, but Elon Musk's company

890
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: SpaceX has a frat boy atmosphere filled with crude sexual

891
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: jokes and gender base harassment. This is according to a

892
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: new lawsuit filed by a group of former employees in

893
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: a civil rights complaint. So we all, like, if you

894
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: follow Elon Musk on Twitter or like, have ever seen

895
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: his tweets reteted into your timeline, you probably already know

896
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: that he loves to make bad like sex jokes, bad

897
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: jokes about women, and former employees say that they were

898
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: illegally retaliated against by being fired for calling him out

899
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: on it. According to a report in the new complaint

900
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: to the California Civil Rights Department and in interviews, the

901
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: seven former employees say that SpaceX executives routinely dismissed their

902
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: concerns or harass them by excluding them from meetings, promoting

903
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: colleagues above them, and joking about a sexual harassment accusation

904
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: against Musk. So folks might remember that Elon Musk was

905
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: accused of sexually harassing a flight attended on one of

906
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: his flights, And it sounds like an HR person at

907
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: SpaceX was laughing and joking about that and being like, oh,

908
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: I've never had a problem with that. I guess I'm

909
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: not hot enough. Ha ha ha ha ha. So Paige

910
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: Hollin Theelen, one of the complainants, says, I was left

911
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: out of so many meetings that I was supposed to

912
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: be in. I was left out of so many decisions

913
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: that were mine to make. I was forgotten on projects.

914
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: I was forgotten and planning. She says that in twenty

915
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: eighteen she was hired at SpaceX as a basic level engineer,

916
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: below her male colleagues, given seniority despite a similar level

917
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: of qualifications and experience. Bringing things to light is the

918
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: first step of actually making them better, she said. And

919
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: she says that when she complained about this to her

920
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: higher ups at SpaceX, they said that she was being

921
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: too emotional, and that when she complained that a male

922
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: colleague was taking credit for her work, they told her

923
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: that she should be more humble. Another thing that's interesting

924
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: here is that she alleges that the jokes, like the

925
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: gendered sexual jokes that Elon Musk would make basically took

926
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: center stage at space She says, basically anything that would

927
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: make a freshman frat and the sit laugh was fair

928
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: game in large parts of the company. And so yeah,

929
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: the fact that like one of the things that they

930
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: were senior employees were joking about were Elon's stupid jokes

931
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: and antics just shows that, like, this is a top

932
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: down problem, Like the problem the rot starts at the top.

933
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: If you can't even talk about the comments that your boss, boss,

934
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: tippy top boss is making without getting slapped with a

935
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: gender harassment lawsuit, the problem starts at the top.

936
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting because I always wondered, like all of

937
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: this weird, like Elon Musk obviously has like a terrible

938
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: sense of humor, Like you could tell from his tweets

939
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 3: that he has a horrible sense of humor. Like, so

940
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: the people around him like also feel like that, Like

941
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: did they encourage that or like I don't know, it's

942
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: always like it feels like it would suck to be

943
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 3: in a meeting with this dude. But yeah, I guess

944
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: that makes sense that they all are probably in the

945
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 3: same like brain set, mindset, you know that is that's yeah,

946
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 3: like not surprising unfortunately, but also like so gross to

947
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 3: have to navigate.

948
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: Elon Wants joked that he was going to start a

949
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: new educational facility called the Texas Institute of Technology and

950
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: Science com t I t S or tits. So that's

951
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 1: the whole joke is that it spells out tits.

952
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: You gotta that's not even like.

953
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 3: It's like I mean calling that like freshman frat jokes

954
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: is like that's that's even too low for that, like

955
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 3: out of come.

956
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: On, Yeah, this is this is a grown man. He

957
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 2: has children.

958
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: He is a grown man, a father of lots of kids,

959
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: and he is still thinks it's thinks the word tits

960
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: is hilarious. Thanks spelling out the word. It's like it's

961
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: like it reminds me of when I was teaching like

962
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: second graders and they would all find the dictionary and

963
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: look up the word sex and just thought it was

964
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: so funny. It is like it is like calling yeah

965
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: freshman frat is like way too generous for the level

966
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: that this this kind of humor is.

967
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: And like a college radio show that I worked on

968
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: that the acronym for it ended up being tits. But

969
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 3: it was like like we all thought it was fun

970
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: We were like well, like our group chat for each other,

971
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 3: like it was all like, but that was it, Like

972
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 3: that was the farthest the joke wet because you know,

973
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: hah it says tits, that's funny, but like I don't know,

974
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 3: that's not.

975
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: I just it's what a weird What a weird dude?

976
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 2: I think I would be.

977
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: So it would be so infuriating working at one of

978
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: these companies, obviously because of the terrible environment, but also

979
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 3: can you imagine like having that be like this down

980
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 3: like being the funniest person in the office, but like

981
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: nobody else acknowledging it because this is the type of

982
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 3: humor that they have, Like it's.

983
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 2: So.

984
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: This is something I have always thought about Elon Musk

985
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: is that he has billions of dollars, He's politically connected,

986
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: he has anything that he could want. He could have,

987
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: except he he really wants people to think he is funny.

988
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: I think that is why one of the reasons why

989
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: he bought Twitter, why he has, you know, tweaked the

990
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: algorithm so that his tweets get more views and more engagement.

991
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: I think that he desperately needs to be thought of

992
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: as funny and charming. He desperately wants people to like him.

993
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or a chillionaire.

994
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: You can't buy that like you can't. You can't. I'm

995
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: sure that in your little bubble that is your boardroom

996
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: or whatever, you can force people to laugh at your

997
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: tits jokes, But if you're not funny in real life,

998
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: you can't force people to think that you're funny. And

999
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: I think that's really something that's important to him. And

1000
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: from all the research I've done on Elon Musk, he

1001
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: is somebody who loves to surround himself with sycophants. I

1002
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: could imagine having to be a sycophant and like be like,

1003
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: be a yes person to my boss's terrible ideas, having

1004
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: to fake laugh at jokes that are not funny. I

1005
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: would have to draw the line. I can't even imagine.

1006
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: Oh, Bridget, I'm sorry. This is where I've got to

1007
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: tell you that you, oh the last of the Joey.

1008
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 3: No, no, I couldn't. I this is it's so annoying.

1009
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 3: He's such a like clown of a man. But it's

1010
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,240
Speaker 3: it's so like, it's such a sad It's so sad.

1011
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: It is so sad. This man just wants to be

1012
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 3: seen as funny and charming, so bad that like he's

1013
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 3: tanking the entire world to get to that and still not.

1014
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. That's some weird, weird stuff.

1015
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: I will quote one of my favorite New York based poets,

1016
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Countess Luandela SEPs money can't buy a class. Joey, thank

1017
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: you for always having so much class and talking to

1018
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: these news stories with me. You were talking about the

1019
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: episode that you did on the podcast stuff I've never

1020
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: told you about Girlhood and TikTok. It's done the fascinating

1021
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 1: How can folks listen?

1022
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 3: Of course you can check out that episode. It's called

1023
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 3: TikTok's Crisis of Femininity. It would have come out February seventh.

1024
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: We can put it in the notes that people are

1025
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 3: interested in. But it is just kind of overall about

1026
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: all of the weird conversations. It was basically what started

1027
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 3: with me trying to write an episode about girl dinner

1028
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 3: and girl math and all of those things, and then

1029
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: spiraled it to me talking about all of the weird

1030
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 3: conversations about girlhood that are happening on TikTok, and we

1031
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: go from trad wives to all the different aesthetic trends

1032
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: and you know, lots of fun stuff girl dinner, girl hobbies.

1033
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: Girl math math.

1034
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 2: You know, you get trying to take critical look.

1035
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: Do you get into like because the aesthetics, it's something

1036
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: that I It changes so quickly, and it's like I

1037
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: thought we were doing there, supposed to be doing clean girl,

1038
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: and now we're doing mob life. Like I can't, who

1039
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: can keep up?

1040
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's it's crazy because that's the whole thing

1041
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 3: about it, isn't it goes so quick. It changes so quick.

1042
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: I talk about it in the episode which Rigid. I'm

1043
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 3: sure you could resonate with this. It's it's interesting because

1044
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 3: the whole idea of having an aesthetic, and like an

1045
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: online aesthetic, like is something that has always been a

1046
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: big part of online culture and like was a really

1047
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: big part of like Tumbler and all that. And it's

1048
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: been interesting with TikTok it's really just become like, instead

1049
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 3: of being about personal style, it's turned into like the

1050
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 3: latest fast fashion trend and how some of those trends

1051
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: have been really really you know, staked in this idea

1052
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: of girlhood and womanhood and femininity and there's some.

1053
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 2: Sort of strange messages about consumerism and all.

1054
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: That there that I get into in the episode if

1055
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: you're interested in hearing more about that, and just kind

1056
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: of trying to take a critical look at some of

1057
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 3: the messages around femininity and girlhood that are you know,

1058
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: circulating on TikTok right now, and how a lot of

1059
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 3: that ties into consumerism and some sort of more concerning

1060
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 3: trends on a political level we're seeing with like the

1061
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: gender binary being very strictly enforced.

1062
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 2: And all of that. So, you know, fun, fun, light stuff,

1063
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: but yeah, check that, check an episode out.

1064
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 3: As always, do you want to hear more of my work,

1065
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: you can also check out Afterlives, the Leali and Flanco story,

1066
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 3: follow me and all the social media's maybe blue Sky soon.

1067
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: Who's to say?

1068
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: At pat dot Pratt, that's Patt n otcr Att.

1069
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here and thanks to

1070
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: all of you for listening. I will see you on

1071
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: the Internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show,

1072
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: check out our workstore at tenggodi slash store. Got a

1073
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want

1074
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: to say hi, You can reach us at Hello at

1075
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's

1076
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: episode at tenggody dot com. There Are No Girls on

1077
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a

1078
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat

1079
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our

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Speaker 1: producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help

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Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.