1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. The other 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: day we had an episode that was about Plessy versus. Ferguson. 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: So that was the U. S. Supreme Court case that 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: made racial segregation in the United States legal and in 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: some interpretations actually encouraged as long as separate facilities for 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: the different races were equal. So today's episode will definitely 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: be easier to follow if you've already listened to that 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: one first. And what we're going to talk about today 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: is the road to Brown versus Board of Education, which 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: is the Supreme Court ruling that overturned plus E versus Ferguson. 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: It would be next to impossible to have ever had 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: a class on American history or the American civil rights 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: movement and have not heard the name Brown versus Board. 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: But just like with Plessy Versus Ferguson, for a lot 17 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: of people, well like that name and what it did 18 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: in terms of segregation is sort of the beginning and 19 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: the end of the knowledge of of what it was 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: all about. And it's a lot more complicated than just 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: one child in one segregated school in a case that 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: uh that went all the way to the Supreme Court, 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: and it turns out it's a lot more complicated than 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: I expected when I got into it. So my intent 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: was to have one episode that was about Brown versus Board. 26 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: But what we're going to do is we're gonna have 27 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: today's episode, which goes through sort of the the impact 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: of Plessy versus Ferguson and the process of getting this 29 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: finally to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court's decision 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: on the matter. We're going to need to have a 31 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: separate episode to talk about what happened after that, because 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: it was even even just confining it to this part 33 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: of the story. This episode, I feel like it's a 34 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: little longer than is typical for us. So we're having 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: a separate episode that's going to be about what happened 36 00:01:53,640 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: after the Brown versus Word decision was released. So our 37 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: Plusy Versus Ferguson episodes started with the context of the 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: American Civil War, this time the context is the aftermath 39 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: of Plusy Versus Ferguson as treaty just said, Marshall Harlem, 40 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: the loan dissenting Justice in that decision argued in his 41 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: opinion that these laws were inherently discriminatory and unjust, and 42 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: he wrote that the ruling was going to lead to 43 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: the proliferation of discriminatory laws and that race relations were 44 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: only going to get worse, and he was absolutely correct. 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: Especially in the South, the separation of black citizens from 46 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: white citizens became increasingly strict and codified, and there were 47 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: different schools, water fountains, and restrooms. Courtrooms had different seats 48 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: and different bibles to swear on. Hospitals refused to treat 49 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: black patients, and if there wasn't a hospital that would 50 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: treat black patients nearby, that was just too bad. Even 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: when separate facilities did exist for people of African descent, 52 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: they were almost universally poorly funded, badly maintained, and generally 53 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: inferior to the facilities that were for white people to use. 54 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: While the basic fact of being funneled two separate, inferior 55 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: facilities was humiliating and degrading. Even worse were the social 56 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: systems that went into enforcing this state of separation. Anyone 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: of African descent was expected to be completely subservient and 58 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: meek to white people. Black Americans who talked back or 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: stood up for themselves were routinely met with anything from 60 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: a public humiliation, which is horrible enough, but it went 61 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: all the way to outright violence. UH Lynching, both of 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: black people and any of their white supporters was a 63 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: fairly common occurrence, and it was rarely prosecuted. Majority sentiment 64 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: about race also shifted pretty dramatically in the years following 65 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: Plessy versus Ferguson. I mean, it wasn't good before that point, 66 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: but around the turn of the twentieth century, white historians 67 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: like William A. Dunning started to write about reconstruction as 68 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: a huge, huge mistake on the part of UH of 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: the government, and a lot of those opinions actually put 70 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: it into the classification of being evil. From this point 71 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: of view, the North had forced unwanted views onto an 72 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: unwilling South, and it should have just left well enough alone. 73 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: This situation grew more visibly hostile in the years following 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: World War One. African Americans who had served their country 75 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: in the war returned home to find that they were, 76 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: unlike white veterans, still treated with discrimination and harassment. A 77 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: series of violent and deadly race riots swept the United 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: States leading to many deaths and extensive property damage. Yeah, 79 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: there were also race riots before and after those interwar years, 80 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: for sure, but that was like the peak, with a 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: few exceptions. During this time, the Supreme Court upheld various 82 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: states segregation laws, which had come to be commonly known 83 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: as Jim Crow laws, and that precedent went on for 84 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: years after. Plessy is Ferguson. On the rare occasion that 85 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court struck down a law, it usually wasn't 86 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 1: because the law itself was found to be discriminatory or 87 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: in violation of the Constitution regarding issues like equal protection 88 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: under the law. For example, in nineteen seventeen, the Supreme 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: Court struck down a Kentucky law that outlawed the sale 90 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: of homes to black people in majority white neighborhoods. But 91 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: this wasn't because that was a discriminatory thing to do. 92 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: It was because the law interfered with the rights of 93 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: contract and with the ability of white homeowners to dispose 94 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: of their property as they saw fit. The court cases 95 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: brought to try to overturn segregation were largely pursued by 96 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Most 97 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: people recognize it as the inn Double A CP, and 98 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: that was first founded in nineteen o nine. This interracial 99 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: group got its start challenging discriminatory laws. They were advocating 100 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: for equal access to employment, housing, and voting, and really 101 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: campaigning for Black Americans to have equal protections, access and 102 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: rights under the law. In one Nathan Marigold, who was 103 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: working with the Double A CP, outlined a plan to 104 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: fight school segregation. And rather than directly going up against 105 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: the idea that separate schools were discriminatory or that schools 106 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: for black children were inferior to schools for white children, 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: this legal strategy focused on budgets. So in the South, especially, 108 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: the budgets for schools for black children were vastly lower 109 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: than the budgets for schools for white children. And there 110 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: was extensive documentation of this that was like out there, 111 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: It's not something you're going to have to investigate. It 112 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: was obvious. And the hope was that by bringing this 113 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: point of easy to document unequal spending before the court, 114 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: school systems were going to end up with two choices. 115 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: They would either have to raise the budget of the 116 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: black schools to match that of the white schools, or 117 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: they could save all that money and just operate one 118 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: school to educate all races. At that point, the widespread 119 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: majority the view was that white children should be educated 120 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: separately from black children, and that there was nothing unfair 121 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: about doing so. So Marigold thought that their best shot 122 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: at challenging the system was to hit the school system 123 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: in their wallets. Yeah, he really everyone was was pretty 124 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: helpful that if if they presented this to the court, 125 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: people were gonna be like, well, we can't possibly afford 126 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: to raise the budgets that much, and we're definitely not 127 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: going to lower the budgets of the schools for white children. 128 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: So they would just have to sort of throw their 129 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 1: hands up and go, well, I guess our hands are tied. 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: But money intervened in all of this in a completely 131 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: different way. Taking a case all the way to the 132 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court is extremely expensive, and this was the Great Depression. 133 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: Then in n three, Marigold was appointed solicitor to the 134 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: Department of the Interior Interior under Franklin beat Roosevelt's administration. 135 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: So his plan sort of, uh, it didn't really evaporate, 136 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: but he was going to be replaced with someone else 137 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: who would have a different plan, and that's what we'll 138 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: talk about after a brief word from a sponsor. So 139 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: two return to the story of of Nathan Merrigold's successor. 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: That was Charles Hamiltons Houston. He was valedictorian of his 141 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: class at Amherst College and he went on to study 142 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: law at Harvard and became the first African American editor 143 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: of the Harvard Law Review. Houston took another look at 144 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: marygold strategy and he found that, yeah, it was a 145 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: pretty good strategy, but it did come with some risks. 146 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: Black teachers who testified about their budgets and their salaries 147 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: would probably wind up losing their jobs as a result, 148 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: and giving the economic climate of the Great Depression, those 149 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: teachers probably were not going to be able to find 150 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: other work afterward. There was also the possibility that the 151 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: strategy would not actually in segregation, that uh, the courts 152 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: would just force the school systems to equalize their budgets 153 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: between schools for different races, and the schools would either 154 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: find money somewhere or you know, make things look as 155 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: though they were equal on paper. So Houston wanted to 156 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: take a different approach. Instead of focusing on public schools, 157 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: the a CP would focus on colleges and universities. Segregation 158 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: in these schools was just as prevalent as it was 159 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: in elementary through high schools, but states had far more 160 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: primary and secondary schools than they had colleges and universities. 161 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: The end a CP would be able to make a 162 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: difference while also fighting on fewer fronts. Focusing on colleges 163 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: and professional schools also got rid of a lot of 164 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: the wiggle room for schools to make excuses. So with 165 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: public schools, UH school boards might be able to explain 166 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: disparities and curricula for different schools by saying, well, this 167 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: school is focused on college prep and that one is 168 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 1: focused on vocational work. Or they might say, sure, the 169 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: school for the white children is new and the black 170 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: school is older, but the classrooms are the same size 171 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: and they have otherwise equivalent facilities. It was a lot 172 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: harder to explain away differences between one law program and 173 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: another law program, and people thought that focusing on the 174 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: college level would also be less emotional for parents. College 175 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: and professional school students were on the cusp of adulthood, 176 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: so there was less of a perception that white students 177 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: needed to be protected from some kind of racial threat. Also, 178 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: the more explicitly racist view of the time was that 179 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: white children who went to school with black children would 180 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: get used to them, breaking down a barrier that some 181 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: people felt needed to be there. Yeah, that that idea 182 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: was less tied to the college idea where people, you know, people, 183 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people think of kids of that age 184 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: as being a little bit more set in their ideas, 185 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: which is not necessarily true, at least in like my 186 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: college experience. I changed my views on a lot of 187 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: things in college, but people were less threatened by that idea. 188 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: So the n Double A CP started in search for 189 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: plaintiffs in a case to take the Supreme Court at 190 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: the University of Maryland Law School. The University of Maryland 191 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: only admitted white students and there was no law school 192 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: for black students in mary Land at all, so when 193 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: the Double A CP started its search. At that point, 194 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: there had been nine African Americans who had applied for 195 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: admission to the University of Maryland Law School and they 196 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: had been rejected because of their race. One of them, 197 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: Donald Murray, was an exceptional student. Had he been white, 198 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: he definitely would have gotten into the program. And when 199 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: he was turned down because he was black, school officials 200 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: recommended that he go to Howard, which was a traditionally 201 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: black university in Washington, d c. And it wasn't just 202 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: a recommendation. The state of Maryland would give him a 203 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: scholarship from a fund that was set up for black 204 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: students who could not attend school in Maryland because of 205 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: their race. Then double a CP took up Murray's case, 206 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: and in five a court found that the scholarship was 207 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: not equal to admission out of state supported school. As 208 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: we've said before, the segregation had to be separate but equal. 209 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: For one thing, this scholarship was only a small amount 210 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: that could defray tuition costs and would not remotely have 211 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: covered tuition Howard or even reduced its cost to being 212 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: the same as that of a state supported school in 213 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: his state where he lived. For another thing, attending Howard 214 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: rather than a school in Maryland would have put Murray 215 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: at a disadvantage when it came to practicing law. Since 216 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: Howard isn't located in Maryland, mary wouldn't be studying with 217 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: Maryland lawyers, and he wouldn't be building a network in 218 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: the state where he plans to practice law. So the 219 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: court ordered that Murray be admitted to the University of 220 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: Maryland Law School, and in eight he became the first 221 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: black person to graduate from there. This case did not 222 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: overturn segregation anywhere else, but it was the A CPS 223 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: first major school segregation victory. It was also the first 224 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: case that Thurgood Marshall worked on for the Double A 225 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: c P. As a side note, Thurgood Marshall also went 226 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: to Howard University under exactly the kind of scholarship that 227 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: was at issue, and he graduated first in his class 228 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: at the law school. The Double A CP continued to 229 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: pursue more college and fashional school segregation cases throughout the courts. 230 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: Games versus Canada made it all the way to the 231 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, and this one was pretty similar to Murray's case. 232 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: Lloyd Gaines had not been admitted to a state supported 233 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: school in Missouri because of his color, and the state 234 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: had offered him a scholarship to a different school in 235 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: another state. A lower court found that this scholarship was 236 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: essentially equal to being allowed to attend the school, but 237 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: the U. S. Supreme Court reversed that ruling, noting that 238 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: offering a student a scholarship to a school in another 239 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: state was not the same as offering an actual equal 240 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: education within the state. Missouri would have to either admit 241 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: Gains to the law program at the school that admitted 242 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: only white students, or it would have to start a 243 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: law program at its college for black students, but still 244 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: didn't overturn any segregation laws. Though, since the ruling just 245 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: meant that states had to offer their own equal but 246 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: separate education within their state rather than basically farming it 247 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: out to other states, it didn't order Missouri to take 248 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: any specific action either, just in some way fix it situation, 249 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: so it really was offering equal programs for black and 250 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: white students. So, unfortunately, after this kind of partial victory 251 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: Gains case got stalled in the courts for years, there 252 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: was this whole series of like reversals and appeals and 253 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: and sending it back and bringing it back up, and 254 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: eventually Games himself disappeared, meaning that the double A CP 255 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: just couldn't pursue it anymore. I did not find out 256 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: what happened to him. I don't know if we know 257 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: what happened to him. The n double A CP continued 258 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: on with a long and frustrating series of other cases 259 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: in other states, including Missouri, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Oklahoma. 260 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: And while states often responded with delaying tactics and evasions 261 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: of court orders, there was some progress made. More states 262 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: started offering scholarships to private schools in the state if 263 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: the states supported schools did not admit black students, or 264 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: they started offering programs for black students to attend all 265 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: white programs. In some capacity, the number of African Americans 266 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: who had access to higher education started to increase in 267 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: southern and border states. As kind of a quick aside, 268 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: it should go without saying, and there's not really a 269 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: great place in this outline to say it, so we're 270 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: just gonna say it here before we take another brief break. 271 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: Everyone involved in bringing these cases to any court throughout 272 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: this episode did so at great personal risk. So people 273 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: were harassed and threatened, they lost their jobs, on and on. 274 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: So as all of this was happening, the struggle to 275 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: try to integrate schools was being done, you know, by 276 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: people who were doing so knowing that they could have 277 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: really poor ramifications on their own personal situation. Uh. And 278 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: at this point in the story, classrooms are still segregated. 279 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: So we're going to take another brief word from a 280 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: sponsor and then come back to talking about when we 281 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: finally got to the point of the Supreme Court desegregating schools. 282 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: To return to our story, the ACP slowly chipped away 283 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: at different aspects of college and professional school segregation by 284 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: bringing these cases into the courts, and it also started 285 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: to broaden its focus. So while many of the cases 286 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: from the late thirties and early forties had focused on 287 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: whether states were providing equal access to education for both races, 288 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: in the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties, the 289 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: they started focusing on the inherent discrimination that was part 290 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: of having segregated facilities at all. The U. S. Supreme 291 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: Court heard the case of McLaurin versus Oklahoma in n and. 292 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: In this case, George McLaurin had been allowed to attend 293 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: the University of Oklahoma because there was no graduate level 294 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: program at Langston University, which was the college for black students. 295 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: While mclauren was allowed to attend the otherwise white school, 296 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: he was separated from the white students in pretty much 297 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: every context. He sat in a row by himself in class, 298 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: he ate by himself since he was the only black 299 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: graduate student this com completely isolated him from all of 300 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: his peers. The Supreme Court also heard the case Sweat 301 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: versus Painter in nineteen fifty, which focused on the right 302 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: of a black student named Human Sweat to attend law 303 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: school at the University of Texas rather than the Texas 304 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: State University for Negroes. In both of these cases, the 305 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: arguments from the NU a cp. Lawyers focused on the indignity, unfairness, 306 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: and discrimination that we're inherent in segregation, as well as 307 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: violations of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which we've 308 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: discussed in detail in the Plessy Versus Ferguson episode. In 309 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: both cases, the Supreme Court found in favor of the students, 310 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: not the States. But neither of these rulings was broad 311 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: enough to overturn Plessy Versus Ferguson. It only applied to 312 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: these specific students and the colleges that they were trying 313 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: to attend. Some colleges and professional schools did start to 314 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: voluntarily voluntarily desegregate at this point because they were anticipating 315 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: that other ruling this were going to come that would 316 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: force them to do it. And so with these president 317 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: cases finally out there, the Nuble a CP turned its 318 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: focus back to elementary and secondary school segregation, which is 319 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: where we finally come to Brown Versus Board of Education. 320 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: Although Brown v. Board sounds like one case with one plaintiff, 321 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: it was actually a collection of five cases argued before 322 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court at the same time. Although these cases 323 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: were argued by different in double a CP lawyers, their 324 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: good Marshall was a prominent figure among them, and he 325 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: took the lead once the cases came before the Supreme 326 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: Court and Briggs Versus Elliott, which is a South Carolina case, 327 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: Marshall developed a strategy meant to challenge the innate unfairness 328 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: of segregation. He brought in psychologists, sociologists, and other experts 329 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: to testify to the fact that segregation was inherently damaging 330 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: to children, especially to black children. He also recommended that 331 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: rather than allowing black children to attend the white schools, 332 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: that white children and should be sent to the black schools. 333 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: Is a way to call out these supposedly equal schools. 334 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: We're not equal at all. Uh. This testimony is where 335 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: what like one of the most cited experiments about the 336 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: damaging parts of segregation came up frequently, and that's the 337 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: test where they would offer children different dolls and and 338 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: asked them to pick the good doll and the and 339 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: the bad doll, and really, regardless of their race, children 340 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: picked the white doll to be the good doll and 341 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: the black doll to be the bad doll. And just 342 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: a lot of other indicators that that that children were 343 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: picking up the idea that black was bad um by 344 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: being segregated. So the famous Brown versus Board of Education 345 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: gets his name from one of the other cases in 346 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: that set of five, and that was Brown versus the 347 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. Although there were many 348 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: plaintiffs involved in this case, the lead plaintiff was Oliver Brown. 349 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: His name came first alphabetically on the plaintiff list, so 350 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: that's why he's listed. Brown was the father of a 351 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: little girl who had to attend the black school, even 352 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: though she had to walk directly past a much nicer, 353 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: better appointed, better funded white school on the way there 354 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: every single day. The other three cases that fell under 355 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: the Brown versus Board umbrella were two cases from Delaware. 356 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: Those were called Give Heart at All Versus Belton at 357 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: All and Give Heart Versus Beulah, and the other was 358 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: Davis versus County school Board of Prince Edward County, which 359 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: was a Virginia case. These cases all work their way 360 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: through the lower courts much the same as the cases 361 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: we've talked about earlier in this episode, and originally the 362 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court was set to hear Brown versus Board and 363 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: Briggs versus Elliott on the same day, but soon the 364 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: other three cases were ready for the Supreme Court as well, 365 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: and in the end, arguments for all five were set 366 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: to start on December nine of Ninetto their good Marshal 367 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: would lead the nub A CPS legal team because they 368 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: essentially had five cases to argue. The arguments went on 369 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: until the afternoon of December eleven. Double A CP lawyers 370 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: made many of the same arguments that they brought up 371 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: in lower lower courts, that segregation was psychologically damaging to 372 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: black children, that it was inherently discriminatory, and that it 373 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: was unconstitutional under the Fourteenth Amendment. The states all separately 374 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: defended their practices of segregation, primarily arguing that the Fourteenth 375 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: Amendment allowed them to maintain separate facilities. A few months later, 376 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: the Core issued an order, but it was not a decision. 377 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: It was an order that all five cases would be 378 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: held over to the next term and reargued, which is 379 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: something that really does not happen very often. Some other 380 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: notable examples where this has taken place, and these names 381 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: will kind of give you a hint as to how 382 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: the menhis It was where Roversus weighed on the issue 383 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: of abortion, Citizens United versus Federal Election Commission on the 384 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: issue of whether corporations have First Amendment protections to free speech. Yeah, 385 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: it's it's the really the most controversial cases that seemed 386 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: to be reargued most often. The Court also asked for 387 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: new briefs, and this time they wanted them to answer 388 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: specific questions related to the Fourteenth Amendment, and they were 389 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: They were extensive, So very briefly, how did or didn't 390 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: the states that ratified the fourteenth Amendment understand that it 391 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: would abolish segregation? And if the states had not understood that, 392 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: did the framers of the amendment understand how it might 393 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: be used? Was it within the power of the Court 394 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: to use the Fourteenth Amendments to abolish segregation at all? 395 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,239 Speaker 1: And if it was, what would it take to do this? 396 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: How would the segregation actually be done? Opinions among the 397 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: n double A CP lawyers were actually divided about whether 398 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: this request to reargue the case was a positive or 399 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: negative sign, but among the States lawyers, everyone generally felt 400 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: pretty confident that it was going their way and the 401 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: segregation would be upheld. Rearguments started on December seventh, nineteen 402 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: fifty three, so almost a year after the first arguments 403 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: that had started, and they went on for another three 404 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: days and the reargument third Good Marshals strenuously argued that 405 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: it was within the power of the Supreme Court to 406 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: end segregation, that it did not need to fall to 407 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: Congress to pass a new law or to amend the Constitution. 408 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: But the States argued that the N double a CPS 409 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: interpretation of the fourteenth Amendment was fundamentally flawed, and that, 410 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: as we've said so many times, allowed for different facilities 411 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: that were still equal. On May seventeenth of nineteen fifty four, 412 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: so at this point this has gone on for a 413 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: year and a half. Uh the Supreme Court announced its decision. 414 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: The Court, led by Chief Justice Earl Warren, whose name 415 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: you may remember from our episodes on Mendez versus Westminster 416 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: in Loving versus Virginia, was unanimous. The decision began segregation 417 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: of white Amingro children in the public schools of a 418 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: state solely on the base is of race pursuant to 419 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: state laws permitting or requiring such segregation, denies to Negro 420 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: children the equal protection of the laws guaranteed by the 421 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment, even though the physical facilities and other tangible 422 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: factors of white and Negro schools may be equal. It 423 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: also directly addressed plus E versus Ferguson by saying the 424 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: separate but equal doctrine adopted in plus Y Versus Ferguson 425 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: one sixty three U. S. Three fifty seven has no 426 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: place in the field of public education. But the story 427 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: doesn't end there. Uh. This decision didn't give much guidance 428 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: on how schools were supposed to integrate, so in the 429 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: case was re argued yet again from April eleventh to 430 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: April fourteenth, and this time the additional arguments were related 431 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: to how to implement the previous decision. This new decision 432 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: was given on May thirty one of that year, and 433 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: it ordered that the plaintiffs in the previous cases be 434 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: admitted to the schools in question. Quote on a ray 435 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: surely nondiscriminatory basis with all deliberate speed. School authorities were 436 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: given the responsibility for figuring out how to solve problems 437 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: related to integration at the local level, with input from 438 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: the courts. When it was necessary, the original five cases 439 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: were remanded back to district courts to figure out how 440 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: to implement those UH specific rulings or to uphold the 441 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: earlier rulings, whichever was more applicable. So in a lot 442 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: of ways, this was disastrous, which is why we need 443 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: to have a whole other episode to talk about it. 444 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: School systems and states, especially but not exclusively, in the South, 445 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: strenuously resistant integration. It was huge, and that's why, as 446 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: I just said, subject of a whole separate episode, we 447 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: cannot basically leave it here by saying and then segregation 448 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: was overturned, yea, because a lot of what happened afterwards 449 00:25:52,520 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: was monumental and horrifying and UH in some ways still 450 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: echoing through school systems in the United States today. So 451 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: that is where we're gonna pause for a brief moment. 452 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: Do you have a spot of listener mail for us? 453 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: I do. It is a brief listener mail because this episode, 454 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: as I said, at the beginning is a little longer 455 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: than we typically do um and it is from Amanda, 456 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: and Amanda says, hello, ladies. I am surprised that I'm 457 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: actually able to write this email because I'm so excited 458 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: that it is hard to sit still. What she's excited about, 459 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: which you can glean from the subject of the the 460 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: email but not as much in the text, UH, is 461 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: that we talked about a site that she works on 462 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: in our Unearthed in episode I don't recall if it 463 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: was part one or part two, And she says, you 464 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: mentioned at thirteen minutes two seconds, Ah well in Tuscany. 465 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: I've been excavating at that well for the past two years, 466 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: and we'll be going back this year. I worked at 467 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: the fine tent up by the well and cleaned everything 468 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: that came in during those two seasons, and that was 469 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: a lot. In one strata, we had over twenty kilos 470 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: of broken bits of pottery. We were all very sad 471 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: when the well closed, as it signaled the end of 472 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: almost fifty years of on and off excavation, but the 473 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: director was incredibly happy to have finally reached the bottom 474 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: and to know all that the well contained. Thank you 475 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: so much. For mentioning my site and your show. It 476 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: was one of the coolest things ever. Thank you, Amanda. 477 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: I always love hearing from people who are directly working 478 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: with things that we've talked about in the episodes. Uh So, 479 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: we are going to stop this episode here for today 480 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: and we're going to pick the story back up in 481 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: I think our next episode is how That's Working out 482 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: on the calendar. If you would like to write to 483 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: us about this or any other subject, you can where 484 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: History podcast that How Stuff Works dot com. Our Facebook 485 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: is Facebook dot com, slash miss in history, and our 486 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: Twitter is miss in History. Are Tumbler is miss in 487 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: History dot tumbler dot com, and we are also on 488 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: Pinterest at pinterest dot com slash ms in history. We 489 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: have a spreadshirt store at MS and history dot spreadshirt 490 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: dot com where you can buy t shirts and phoneys 491 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: and whatnot. If you would like to learn a little 492 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: bit more about what we've talked about today, you can 493 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: come to our website and put the word brown v 494 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: Board into ours so's far you will find the article 495 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: about how the Civil Rights Movement worked, which talks about 496 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: brown versus Board of of Education because it was a huge, 497 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: huge part of the civil rights movement. You can also 498 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: come to our website, which is missed in history dot com, 499 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: and you can find an archive of every single episode 500 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: we have ever done, as well as show notes for 501 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: the episodes. Holly and I have done lots of other 502 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: cool stuff, so you can do all that and a 503 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: whole lot more at how stuff works dot com or 504 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: miss the mystory dot com for more on this and 505 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.