WEBVTT - 032324 Israel's Response in Gaza with Suzanne Aslam (Part 1)

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our

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<v Speaker 1>mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host, Rams' job.

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<v Speaker 2>He is Rams' joh I am q Ward. You are

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<v Speaker 2>listening to Civic Cipher DD.

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<v Speaker 1>You are welcome back to the show. Que. I have

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<v Speaker 1>missed you terribly.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm tired. I'm about to change my zip code to

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<v Speaker 3>thirty five thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>Feet listen man. Obviously we've had a lot to talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for those that were able to tune into

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<v Speaker 1>last week's episode, we thought it was appropriate to give

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<v Speaker 1>you a follow up to you know, the Israel Hamas

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<v Speaker 1>war as it's being called, just to check in with

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<v Speaker 1>some people that we know that are more familiar with

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<v Speaker 1>the goings on than we are. And last week we

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<v Speaker 1>had on Ammy Horwitz, who was able to say his piece.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a person who very much sympathized us with Israel's plight.

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<v Speaker 1>I've admitted that since gaining more information, my sympathies have

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<v Speaker 1>shifted more in favor of the Palestinian human beings who

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<v Speaker 1>are suffering daily. And one person who has helped us

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<v Speaker 1>tell this story so far is Suzanne Oslam and she

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<v Speaker 1>joins us again today, so welcome back to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. And for those that don't know, she is

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<v Speaker 1>a human rights major a former Miss arab USA. She

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<v Speaker 1>is an actress as well as an activist turned writer

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<v Speaker 1>and as an activist and a Palestinian American, she spent

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<v Speaker 1>time in Palestine working with a peacekeeping team and has

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<v Speaker 1>a deep personal understanding of the occupation. I implore you

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<v Speaker 1>to follow her social media. I'll say it again, but

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<v Speaker 1>I want to say it right now for those who

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<v Speaker 1>are able to get to their devices. She is at

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<v Speaker 1>the activist and I love that because I think it

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<v Speaker 1>really does embody who she is and what she stands for. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>before we get to that conversation, it's time to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>some Ebony excellence. Q. How does that sound.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm over here trying to go live and Rams wants

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<v Speaker 2>to put me to work, so I guess I will

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<v Speaker 2>go back to work.

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<v Speaker 1>J we shall.

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<v Speaker 2>This week's Ebny Excellence is brought to you by Actively Black.

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<v Speaker 2>Visit actively black dot com, where the good people there

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<v Speaker 2>believe that there's greatness in our DNA.

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<v Speaker 1>We believe that too.

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<v Speaker 2>This is from the World Food Program, WFP dot Org, Washington, DC,

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<v Speaker 2>United Nations World Food Program, Good World Ambassador and Multiplatinum

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<v Speaker 2>Global Recording Artists. The Weekend is directing two point five

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars from his Exo Humanitarian Fund towards WFP's humanitarian

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<v Speaker 2>response effort in Gaza. This donation, which equates to four

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<v Speaker 2>million emergency meals, will fund eight hundred and twenty metric

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<v Speaker 2>tons of food parcels that could feed more than one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred seventy three thousand Palestinians for two weeks. The Weekend's

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<v Speaker 2>contribution comes at a critical moment in WFP's response effort,

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<v Speaker 2>as it racists to feed more than one million Gazans

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<v Speaker 2>on the verge of starvation. Since the crisis begin on

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<v Speaker 2>October seventh, WFPS provided food assistance to more than eight

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty six thousand Palestinians in coordination with other

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<v Speaker 2>UN agencies in local and regional implementation partners. During the

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<v Speaker 2>recent humanitarian pause and fighting, WFPS reached more than one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty one thousand people, including and hard to

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<v Speaker 2>reach areas previously inaccessible within Gaza. Food assistance has included

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<v Speaker 2>fresh bread, fortified date bars, canned food, wheat flour, pasta,

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<v Speaker 2>tomato paste, and oil. WFP continues to move as many

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<v Speaker 2>trucks as possible full of food and aid into Gaza

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<v Speaker 2>during the humanitarian pause. Somebody's doing something. Yeah, shout out,

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<v Speaker 2>though we wish we could all do so much more.

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<v Speaker 2>Shout out to the weekend. Yeah, man, that is a

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<v Speaker 2>very special thing. And you know what, it feels like

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<v Speaker 2>the right thing. It doesn't feel like me more than that,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just the right thing to do. So have any

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<v Speaker 2>excellence if I've ever seen it.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, a lot of people had a lot to say

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<v Speaker 1>about last week's episode, and you know, what we did

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<v Speaker 1>was very much intentional. He is a person that comes

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<v Speaker 1>onto the show and he shares his opinions, most of

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<v Speaker 1>which we disagree with. But if we're not having conversations,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not learning, we're not growing.

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<v Speaker 2>So and we also cannot ever put ourselves in a

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<v Speaker 2>position where our stance, our opinion, and our feelings are

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<v Speaker 2>the only ones that matter. We've seen people try to

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<v Speaker 2>do that to us, and we've sworn never to put

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<v Speaker 2>ourselves in that position of moral or intellectual superiority where

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<v Speaker 2>only what we think and feel is what we'll present.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a such thing as truth and that is

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<v Speaker 2>very important to us as well.

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<v Speaker 4>So, speaking of which our special guest is here today.

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<v Speaker 4>You did hear I did the episode that we did

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<v Speaker 4>last week with Amy Horwitz.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know there was a few parts that may

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<v Speaker 1>have stood out to you. Yes, I want to let

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<v Speaker 1>you talk to us uninterrupted and give us your thoughts

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<v Speaker 1>on the conversation that we had last week, and then

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<v Speaker 1>we'll go from there in terms of additional questions. But

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us what you heard that was right wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>needs clarification, clarity, nuance, etc.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, listening to that was really difficult for me because

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<v Speaker 5>I'm listening to a person who essentially was dehumanizing my

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<v Speaker 5>entire people. And this is pretty normal. We've heard this

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<v Speaker 5>our entire lives. One of the things that he said

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<v Speaker 5>Israel feels a moral responsibility in terms of how it

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<v Speaker 5>deals with that enemy. I have zero proof of this

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<v Speaker 5>being true. There's nothing about what they do that's moral.

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<v Speaker 5>The fact that they have to say we are the

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<v Speaker 5>most moral army in the world. Who says that unless

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<v Speaker 5>they're actually trying to combat the narrative The truth in

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<v Speaker 5>that they are not the most moral army in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>I have no proof that they've ever been a moral army.

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<v Speaker 5>I have proof that they have not been a moral army.

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<v Speaker 5>They have violated every single international law that exists. So

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<v Speaker 5>it's you can't you can't just say things like that

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<v Speaker 5>and expect that that to be it, for that to

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<v Speaker 5>be enough without any evidence underneath it and all of

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<v Speaker 5>the evidences to the contrary.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to add something real quick. I'm not just

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<v Speaker 1>throw you off, but there was a time when I

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<v Speaker 1>did have a moment in that conversation where I asked

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<v Speaker 1>him about the prevalence of videos that are being shown

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<v Speaker 1>where there are Israeli soldiers dehumanizing these human beings and

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<v Speaker 1>it's like funny, And I remember them pushing back, sort

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<v Speaker 1>of saying something like, well, these are kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>individual actors. And the point I think I was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to make is that individual actors you might see six

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<v Speaker 1>eight ten. When you see dozens and dozens and dozens

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<v Speaker 1>and they're making videos, I think it gives you more

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<v Speaker 1>insight into the mentality of this group of individuals. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that kind of for those who may

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<v Speaker 1>not be as familiar, I wanted you to know that

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<v Speaker 1>that was where this part of the conversation comes from

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<v Speaker 1>because last week I did ask on me about his

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<v Speaker 1>feelings and the people that are very pro Israel their

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<v Speaker 1>feelings about all of these videos coming up. And again

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<v Speaker 1>his position was that these are individual actors, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think our position is more like, well, after a while,

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<v Speaker 1>you start to get a sense of the mentality in

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<v Speaker 1>the army, because again, these are the people recording, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>that this probably happens when the cameras aren't on as well.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, It's really interesting that we would he would say, Oh,

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<v Speaker 5>they're individual actors and they can't be held responsible for

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<v Speaker 5>the entire army. Yet everybody in Gaza is he mass

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<v Speaker 5>hm ooh, how does that work? That makes no sense.

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<v Speaker 5>And he even said, and I'm jumping up a little bit,

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<v Speaker 5>but he even said, when you were talking about the

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<v Speaker 5>number of people who've died, he first of all, questions

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<v Speaker 5>the numbers. Even though the Secretary of Defense in the

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<v Speaker 5>United States of America has said it was twenty five

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<v Speaker 5>thousand women and children. The Secretary of Defense, who is

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<v Speaker 5>funding this genocide, gave that number.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot more than just the Secretary of Defense

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<v Speaker 1>of the United States of America. There was an article is.

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<v Speaker 1>Funnily enough, after Amy and I recorded this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that no one knows and you're learning this in real time.

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<v Speaker 1>But after that article came out or sorry, after Ami

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<v Speaker 1>and I recorded, there's an article came out, and I

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<v Speaker 1>believe it was Time magazine that specifically said these numbers

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<v Speaker 1>that are coming out of Gaza are real numbers. And

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<v Speaker 1>then they had all of the sources that they listed,

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<v Speaker 1>which many of the sources were indeed the sources that

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<v Speaker 1>I used prior to going into that conversation with Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>so as to eliminate that question of whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>the numbers were valid. So to anybody that has an

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<v Speaker 1>issue with the numbers, sorry, they're true. Yeah, So that's that,

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<v Speaker 1>so please continue.

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<v Speaker 5>So one of the other things that he said, and

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<v Speaker 5>this one man cute in my blood boil, he brought

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<v Speaker 5>up Goldemeir in Goldimeir is a She was the fourth

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<v Speaker 5>Prime Minister of Israel. Originally, her citizenship said Palestine. There's

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<v Speaker 5>a video of her saying I'm Palestinian, my citizenship says Palestine.

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<v Speaker 5>But eventually she became the Prime Minister of Israel. This

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<v Speaker 5>is her quote that he kind of loosely said, when

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<v Speaker 5>p comes, we will perhaps in time be able to

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<v Speaker 5>forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will

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<v Speaker 5>be harder for us to forgive them for having forced

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<v Speaker 5>us to kill their sons. That is gaslighting. That is

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<v Speaker 5>international gas lighting. That is when a woman is sexually

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<v Speaker 5>assaulted and we all go, yeah, but what were you wearing?

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<v Speaker 5>It was your fault? Why were you in a dark alley?

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<v Speaker 5>Why were you like? Why were you It's your victim

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<v Speaker 5>blaming and the fact that he was using that is

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<v Speaker 5>like this profound thing, like you forced us to do

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<v Speaker 5>this thing, and we're just so distraught about it as

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<v Speaker 5>we keep doing it happily. Is It's just so asinine

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<v Speaker 5>and in no other context, in any other part of

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<v Speaker 5>the world would this type of dialogue be acceptable. And

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<v Speaker 5>I don't understand why it's acceptable when we talk about

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<v Speaker 5>the Palestinians this way.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to add something here too. I know I

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<v Speaker 1>want you to talk, but there's I think these things

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<v Speaker 1>require content. First Off, thank you for adding that, because

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<v Speaker 1>I was not able to really heed the gravity of

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<v Speaker 1>that statement until this very moment. Right. The other thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is something that Amy and I were able

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about kind of after the show, and again

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<v Speaker 1>for the benefit of our listeners. There is a question

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, that distance that you put between the

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<v Speaker 1>actions on the ground. So this is just a part

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<v Speaker 1>of war. This is just how these things go. They

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<v Speaker 1>made us do it, you know, to your point, And

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<v Speaker 1>as soon as you flip that narrative over and you say, well, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So let's imagine if we're living in a world in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four where there are people

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<v Speaker 1>picking body parts of little babies out of rubble, and

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<v Speaker 1>their Jewish babies, how does how do so come up

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<v Speaker 1>with the worst possible justification, the best possible justification for

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<v Speaker 1>it is it's still a conscionable thing. Is it unconscionable

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<v Speaker 1>to you to live in the world where there are

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<v Speaker 1>people picking out body parts of children that could not

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<v Speaker 1>vote in an election, because that's another big one, right

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<v Speaker 1>out of a pile of rubble? Could you live in

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<v Speaker 1>a Is there any justification for that? Period? Full stop? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's where that conversation breaks down. So I appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>you making that point, and I will stop there. Please continue.

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<v Speaker 5>Like what people failed often to understand or or don't

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<v Speaker 5>like to talk about, is when she said Goldimir, which

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<v Speaker 5>Amy used this quote, it's so hard for us to

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<v Speaker 5>forgive those that force us to kill their sons. We

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<v Speaker 5>didn't force you to kill us. What are you talking about.

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<v Speaker 5>You came onto our land, you took it violently, and

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<v Speaker 5>then you got mad when we fought back. How is that?

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<v Speaker 5>It's just it's I mean, you're talking to a person

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<v Speaker 5>where like their reality is so different than what we're

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<v Speaker 5>actually experiencing that those conversations are really hard. It's why

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<v Speaker 5>I didn't want to come here and talk to Amy

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<v Speaker 5>in person, because our realities are so so different, and

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<v Speaker 5>he needs to live in that reality and I live

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<v Speaker 5>in the reality that I've actually seen where my family,

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<v Speaker 5>my mom benefited from the World Food Program as a

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<v Speaker 5>baby because they didn't have the means because Israel is

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.679
<v Speaker 5>occupying them and committing ethnic cleansing and apartheid. They don't

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 5>have the opportunities to go out and provide for their families.

0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 5>And yet it's somehow our fault that you killed our babies.

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 5>Right now, there's a guy named I think it's Aimen,

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.080
<v Speaker 5>I can't remember Amen Levy. He's the spokesperson for the

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.840
<v Speaker 5>State of Israel. He's young, he's good looking, he has

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.520
<v Speaker 5>a British accent, I think if I remember correctly, And

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 5>he sits there and he goes like, we will never

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.680
<v Speaker 5>forgive you for making us do this. Look what you

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 5>made us do, And what a narrative that is. You

0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 5>made us kill thirty thousand people.

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.680
<v Speaker 2>You made us kill thirty thousand of your people. We

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 2>will never forgive you for it?

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.319
<v Speaker 5>Right, wow, this is what this is the narrative that

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 5>they've been saying since the fourth Prime Minister of Israel.

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Again, the gravity it hits different that in a conversation

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.040
<v Speaker 1>with Ami, that's just kind of a passing comment, but

0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, to kind of hear it now. It's how

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:36.240
<v Speaker 1>it's been used to suggest that this whole thing is

0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.240
<v Speaker 1>somehow the fault of people suffering.

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 5>And they are the victims, like Israel is the victim constantly,

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 5>and somehow they're the victim and the hero at the

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 5>exact same time. And it's just the most amazing publicity

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.400
<v Speaker 5>stunt that you're ever going to see in your lifetime.

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 1>So, speaking of which, let's if you've reached a good

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 1>stopping point. I'm going a stopping point, So talk to

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 1>me a bit about what it might have felt like

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.080
<v Speaker 1>for you personally, for your family, for your people. You

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 1>know that you know, with your activism and the apertures

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>you have into kind of the temperament of the Palestinian people.

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 1>How has it felt to know that there is increased

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>support and to see the numbers and the data that

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 1>the support has shifted away from Israel in favor of Palestine.

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 5>It's incredibly emotional. There's one part of me. I have

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 5>so many feelings. There's one part of me that is like,

0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 5>where have you guys been this entire time? Like we

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.240
<v Speaker 5>didn't just start talking about the six months ago. We've

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 5>been talking about this. In fact, when after October seventh happened,

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.480
<v Speaker 5>people are reaching out to me because they're like, wait

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 5>a minute, this sounds familiar. Haven't you been talking about this?

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 5>And I was like yeah, yeah. So there's a part

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 5>of me that's kind of angry because we weren't believed

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 5>and heard. And there's another part of me that's like, look,

0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 5>I don't really it doesn't matter, Like I don't care

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 5>how we got here in a care but I mean,

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 5>we're here now and I'm so grateful for the support.

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 5>And there are people that are like obsessing day and night,

0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 5>crying over these little kids who they have no connection to,

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 5>and it's been really heartwarming. How and oftentimes they're the

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 5>ones leading the charge and they're the ones going on protests.

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 5>It's been really, really beautiful. And there's something about Palestine,

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 5>and I think I said this on the last show

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:32.400
<v Speaker 5>I was on here that is spiritually and energetically powerful

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.640
<v Speaker 5>that has brought people to a new level of consciousness

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 5>and awareness. And there's this awakening that is happening, particularly

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:48.920
<v Speaker 5>among young people, which is why they want to ban TikTok.

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.520
<v Speaker 5>People think it's about China. It is not about China.

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 5>It's a great cover. It's a great cover because we

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 5>love China as an enemy. It's not it's about the fact.

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 5>And they've said this. It's so weird because sometimes they're

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.840
<v Speaker 5>really savvy as really politicians, and sometimes they're just really

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 5>blunt and honest. And they have gone on record saying

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.359
<v Speaker 5>that the narrative has shifted and they're trying to control it.

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 1>That's from the ADEO, Yeah.

0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 3>And that's true of politicians in general. We've seen a

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.199
<v Speaker 3>shift change where they no longer feel the need to

0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 3>be savvy. They can be blunt and say these things

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 3>that would have been frowned upon before, because they see

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 3>that there's a sentiment in their base right where those

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.560
<v Speaker 3>things aren't frowned upon anymore. So they don't feel the

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 3>need to disguise them and use colorful language. They say

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 3>what they feel with their chest now because they're followers

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.359
<v Speaker 3>as I call them, and their base they stand with

0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.919
<v Speaker 3>them in unison and their beliefs, So they don't they

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.200
<v Speaker 3>feel they have the power to actually say what they

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 3>mean now, so they don't get as savvy.

0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Or as right.

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 3>It's true, they don't do the intellectual gymnastics that they use.

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 5>They're not doing the whole diplomatic thing.

0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 5>One of the things Amy said is and if this

0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 5>is not a perfect quote, it kills us that there

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 5>are these children, civilians and innocent civilians that are dying. No,

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't, No, it doesn't because Israeli politicians are on record,

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:16.359
<v Speaker 5>on record in public without any shame or any like.

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.439
<v Speaker 5>They're not saying this, you know, hidden, It's not like

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.119
<v Speaker 5>a hot mic. They're just going out and saying there

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 5>are no innocent people in Gaza, there are no innocent

0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 5>children in Gaza. They want to resettle Gaza. They're they're

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.360
<v Speaker 5>being very open with their genocidal intents. Let's let's believe them.

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 1>There's there's something else there too. When when they talk

0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:46.120
<v Speaker 1>about what they're doing amongst themselves or when it comes

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 1>from there, it doesn't seem like there's a problem. But

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 1>when you know, we're a media outlet, we're a media organization,

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 1>when media organizations, because we watch this all right, when

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>media organizations push back and it's a problem here. Let

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 1>me let me into picture a little bit better for you.

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 1>There's a statement that we were told early on is

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.439
<v Speaker 1>anti semitic. In that statement is you know, from the

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 1>river to the sea. If not on that, yeah, So

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:15.560
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to hear your thoughts. Let me take the

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.679
<v Speaker 1>picture for the listeners right quick. From the river to

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 1>the sea, that's an anti Semitic statement. So I was

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 1>talking to Amy, I've talked to other Jewish people, not

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Jewish people, Jewish people. I'm talking pro Palestinian people that

0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:30.840
<v Speaker 1>have a fundamentally different opinion.

0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.919
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what you meant, Pro israel people, That's

0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:35.280
<v Speaker 2>what I meant.

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Sorry about that, now I'm confusing everybody. Okay, pro Israeli folks, Okay.

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.120
<v Speaker 1>So I'm told that is an anti Semitic statement. Don't

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.399
<v Speaker 1>don't make that statement, Okay, no problem, no problem. I

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.240
<v Speaker 1>love Jewish people. If that hurts you, even if it

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.600
<v Speaker 1>just hurts you, I'm never gonna argue whether or not

0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.399
<v Speaker 1>it's valid or whatever. If it hurts your feelings, then

0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:57.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't need to say it. I can get my

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.240
<v Speaker 1>point across. I have enough words in my brain. Will

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.680
<v Speaker 1>be fine, so I don't say it. I go to protest,

0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, a free Gaza ro Palaesig protest, you know

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 1>that sort of stuff, and they have all the chants, right,

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:12.960
<v Speaker 1>and I say all the chances, and when they say

0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 1>from the River to the Sea, I don't say that

0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.719
<v Speaker 1>part because even though there's no Jewish people that I

0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 1>know that can hear me, this is the commitment that

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 1>I've made. And I see the Prime Minister or the whatever,

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 1>that guy's.

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 5>What's the name bibe Benjamin and yahoo mm hm prime

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 5>Minister of Israel.

0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.359
<v Speaker 1>And then he says it on the news.

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:34.159
<v Speaker 5>Yes he does.

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 1>And then I've told it to Amy and Amy's like,

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 1>I never never, He doesn't know about that. Remember, he's well,

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:42.919
<v Speaker 1>if you if it's been a while since you have

0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 1>heard the episode he did, he was like, no, I didn't.

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:46.960
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that. Can you send me the video

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:48.719
<v Speaker 1>of it? So I sent him the video of it.

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.360
<v Speaker 1>But by then, of course we weren't recording anymore.

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 5>But so not only did did Bibe is the nickname

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.600
<v Speaker 5>that they give Benjamin and Yahoo. So not only did

0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 5>BB say that, but the Likud Party, which is the

0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 5>political party that BB is under, you know, they're like

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:09.760
<v Speaker 5>Republican party. In nineteen seventy nine, in their party charter

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.719
<v Speaker 5>whatever it's called, they wrote, the right of the Jewish

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 5>people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable.

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.439
<v Speaker 5>And then they say some things, and then between the

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:24.880
<v Speaker 5>sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 5>Now they're saying only Israeli sovereignty. All we're saying is

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.960
<v Speaker 5>we want freedom. But they initiated this quote. We just

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 5>took it and we spun it to say we want

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.680
<v Speaker 5>freedom from those same locations, from the river to the sea.

0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.600
<v Speaker 5>That's their invention nineteen seventy nine.

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:50.320
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that I'm increasingly coming to appreciate

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 1>is that there are a lot of things, a lot

0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 1>of similarities between certainly black Americans, But I think black

0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.720
<v Speaker 1>people and house in people. And I've kind of known

0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.000
<v Speaker 1>this for some months now, but the more I hear

0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:07.840
<v Speaker 1>stories like this from you and from our other friend,

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Resistance is beautiful. Couldn't make it today, but you know,

0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 1>God bless him, My hope he's flourishing.

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 5>Whatever he's he's doing a lot.

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's doing the most. Shout out to him. But

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.280
<v Speaker 1>what I'm seeing is that there's a lot of similarities.

0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 1>What you mentioned is like, you know, black people were

0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.639
<v Speaker 1>kind of famous for taking negative things and spinning it,

0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned, turning it into a good thing. Not

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 1>a good thing, but into our own thing. And so

0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.240
<v Speaker 1>you know what what I want to do is I

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>want to talk more about that, and I do want

0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:45.919
<v Speaker 1>to talk more with you about last week's conversation just

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.439
<v Speaker 1>because having a response to it, I think that it

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.919
<v Speaker 1>helps our listeners really understand what it might feel like

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>to be in your shoes and more importantly, how to support.

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>And so that's where gonna go next.