Speaker 1: Welcome to a very special episode of Good Game with
Speaker 1: Sarah Spain. Proudly sponsored by Nissan, The all new Nissan
Speaker 1: Armada is the most powerful suv Nissan has ever made.
Speaker 1: Rugged and gritty, but also luxurious. It's a premium vehicle
Speaker 1: made for adventurers who are ready to conquer whatever's in
Speaker 1: front of them, just like the coaches and athletes that
Speaker 1: battle it out each year in the NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament.
Speaker 1: Two of those coaches, all time greats of the game,
Speaker 1: will join me today. It's Thursday, April third, and on
Speaker 1: today's show, we'll be talking to former Stanford coach Tara
Speaker 1: Vanderveer and former Notre Dame coach Muffett McGraw, two of
Speaker 1: the winningest coaches in college basketball history. Over the last decade.
Speaker 1: They got to know each other pretty well in March,
Speaker 1: with their teams meeting four times in the NCAA Tournament,
Speaker 1: all in the span of five years. Notre Dame one
Speaker 1: two of those matchups, in twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: while Stanford won in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. We'll
Speaker 1: find out what they remember about their four face offs
Speaker 1: in the NCAA tournament brainstorm, how to get more women
Speaker 1: into coaching, and talk about the pros and cons of
Speaker 1: the changing women's game from increased investment to nil and.
Speaker 2: The transfer portal.
Speaker 1: I caught up with them earlier this week ahead of
Speaker 1: the Final four this weekend in Tampa, Plus a portal shakeup,
Speaker 1: more proof that knees should be banned, and Team Good
Speaker 1: Game looks to take a w from anel. It's all
Speaker 1: coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
Speaker 1: you need to know today. Let's start with some news
Speaker 1: that's shaking up both the college and pro hoops landscapes.
Speaker 1: Notre Dame's Olivia Miles, who was widely expected to be
Speaker 1: the number two pick in this year's WNBA draft, is
Speaker 1: instead holding off on turning pro and entering the transfer portal.
Speaker 1: ESPN's sham Sharani was the first to report the news
Speaker 1: on Monday. Miles has one year of college eligibility remaining,
Speaker 1: as she sat out all of last year with a
Speaker 1: knee injury. After Notre Dames lost to TCU in the
Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen, Miles hinted that she had a lot on
Speaker 1: her mind.
Speaker 2: Quote, I love college.
Speaker 1: I think I've outgrown it a little bit, though, so
Speaker 1: that makes my decision tough for to stay. It's comfortable
Speaker 1: a place where you have security. The W the volatility
Speaker 1: is up and down.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I'm deciding between a bunch of factors.
Speaker 2: End quote.
Speaker 1: So let me briefly add some context here that I
Speaker 1: think matters. One, the Irish stumbled down the stretch and
Speaker 1: then they got bounced in the sweet sixteen, so Miles
Speaker 1: probably has a bad taste in her mouth about their finish. Two,
Speaker 1: she wasn't healthy down the stretch, so her numbers suffered
Speaker 1: and she couldn't be herself out there. Her March stats
Speaker 1: were frankly not good. So maybe she wants to pull
Speaker 1: a Haley van Lit, find somewhere she can thrive and
Speaker 1: go out feeling better both in terms of personal and
Speaker 1: team success. And or she's looking at the CBA negotiations
Speaker 1: going on in the W. Now this is important because
Speaker 1: she knows if she enters next year's draft, her rookie
Speaker 1: deal will be under a new CBA that's expected to
Speaker 1: pay players way more, and that's a three year deal
Speaker 1: for rookies with a fourth year option, so it would
Speaker 1: be at a much higher rookie salary than the one
Speaker 1: players coming out this year are going to make. Now
Speaker 1: the transfer part of this is more surprising to me
Speaker 1: than the sticking around. But maybe there's more to the
Speaker 1: story about why Notre Dame faltered late in the season,
Speaker 1: or maybe more to know about miles relationship with the
Speaker 1: coaching staff or teammates or the school we might find out.
Speaker 1: Important to note as well, just because she's in the
Speaker 1: transfer portal, that doesn't mean she can't return to the Irish.
Speaker 1: Miles does retain the right to stick around if she
Speaker 1: doesn't like her options. More college hoops. The twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four to twenty five Naysmith Award ceremony on Wednesday was
Speaker 1: a West Side party, with USC star ju Ju Watkins
Speaker 1: taking home National Player of the Year honors, UCLA center
Speaker 1: Lauren Betts winning Defensive Player of the Year, and UCLA
Speaker 1: coach Corey Close.
Speaker 2: Earning Coach of the Year honors.
Speaker 1: The five finalists for the Wooden Award, given annually to
Speaker 1: the most outstanding college basketball player in the country, were
Speaker 1: also announced on Wednesday. There are some familiar names, USC's
Speaker 1: ju Ju Watkins, UCLA's Lauren Betts, plus Yukon's page. Beckers
Speaker 1: Texas is Madison Booker and Notre Dames Hanna Hidalgo. The
Speaker 1: award will be handed out on April eleventh. Becker's previously
Speaker 1: won in twenty twenty one, becoming the first freshman to
Speaker 1: receive the honor to the NWSL. Gotham FC announced on
Speaker 1: Wednesday that Tyrna Davidson sustained an ACL tear in her
Speaker 1: left knee in last Friday's game against the Houston Dash.
Speaker 1: She's been placed on the season ending injury list. It's
Speaker 1: devastating news to hear, especially since Davidson previously tore her
Speaker 1: right ACL in twenty twenty two, an injury that sidelined
Speaker 1: her for a year and kept her out of contention
Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty three World Cup. Tyrna posted on
Speaker 1: social in part quote in matching scars out my left
Speaker 1: ACL and quote the beauty of life is its unpredictable nature.
Speaker 1: While I've found myself on the adverse side of this unpredictability,
Speaker 1: at the moment, I know this experience will be another
Speaker 1: colorful chapter of my journey. I have no doubt this
Speaker 1: year will bring me unexpected joys despite this setback, end
Speaker 1: quote typical Tyrna handling things with grace, intelligence and perspective.
Speaker 2: We're sending you our best and hoping for a smooth recovery. Tea.
Speaker 1: More injury news, this one in women's basketball. The New
Speaker 1: York Liberty announced that guard Benijel Lany Hamilton had surgery
Speaker 1: in March to repair an acute meniscus injury in her
Speaker 1: left knee. Landey Hamilton played two games in Unrivaled before
Speaker 1: sustaining the injury for the Liberty. She's expected to be
Speaker 1: out for five to six months, which will keep her
Speaker 1: out of most, if not all, of the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five WNBA season.
Speaker 2: This is a real.
Speaker 1: Bummer for Benijo, who missed six weeks last season to
Speaker 1: a knee injury and also missed time in twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: when she tore her ACL playing for the Chicago Sky. Obviously,
Speaker 1: anytime you play basketball, you're at risk for injury, and
Speaker 1: Unrivaled is no different. Something players certainly have to think
Speaker 1: about when they sign on to playoff season ball.
Speaker 2: More hoops news.
Speaker 1: Longtime coach now Fortner announced on Monday that she's retiring,
Speaker 1: effective immediately. Fortner spent the last six years as head
Speaker 1: coach of Georgia Tech, following stops at Purdue and Auburn.
Speaker 1: Fortner also previously served as the Indiana Fevers head coach
Speaker 1: from two thousand and one till two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: She also led Team USA to a gold medal at
Speaker 1: the two thousand Sydney Olympics. In a statement, Fortner said
Speaker 1: it wasn't an easy decision to step away. Quote Georgia
Speaker 1: Tech is a gold mine as an institution and an
Speaker 1: athletics department, and is well position to compete for acc
Speaker 1: and national championships in women's basketball. That makes it very
Speaker 1: hard to step away. But for me, after spending much
Speaker 1: of the last thirty plus years on the sideline, I
Speaker 1: just feel.
Speaker 2: That it's time end.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 1: Finally, we're sending congratulations to Alex Morgan and her husband
Speaker 1: Servando Carrasco on the birth of their baby boy, Enzo.
Speaker 1: Morgan announced her pregnancy and retirement from professional soccer last
Speaker 1: September and played her final game days later. Too early
Speaker 1: to get that kid in some cleats, speaking of actually
Speaker 1: has their daughter Charlie been signed by an NWSL club yet?
Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break when we come back.
Speaker 1: Hall of famers, Tara Vanderveer and Muffett McGraw. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
Speaker 1: presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada and SCUV.
Speaker 2: That's luxurious and tough.
Speaker 1: Speaking a tough, Let's get to my conversation with two
Speaker 1: of the toughest coaches in women's college basketball history, Muffett
Speaker 1: McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 2: Joining us now.
Speaker 1: She was the head women's basketball coach at Stanford from
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five until her retirement in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year and eighteen
Speaker 1: time Pack twelve Coach of the Year, she led the
Speaker 1: Cardinal to fourteen final fours and three NCAA Championship wins
Speaker 1: in ninety, ninety two and twenty twenty one. She's one
Speaker 1: of only nine NCAA women's basketball coaches to win over
Speaker 1: nine hundred games, one of ten NCAA Division One coaches
Speaker 1: women or men to win a thousand games. Her twelve
Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen wins make her the second winning as
Speaker 1: head coach and men's or women's college basketball history, behind
Speaker 1: only Gino Oriama, Who's snuck by this year. She coached
Speaker 1: Team USA to a gold medal at the ninety six
Speaker 1: Olympics and was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame in O two and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame in twenty eleven. The court at Stanford's Maples Pavilion
Speaker 1: was named in her honor.
Speaker 2: It's Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Tara, my pleasure, Shara joining us again.
Speaker 1: She's a basketball analyst for ESPN and the ACC Network
Speaker 1: and was the head women's basketball coach at Notre Dame
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty seven until her retirement in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year, she led
Speaker 1: her team to nine Final four, seven championship game appearances
Speaker 1: and two national Championship wins in twenty one and twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: She was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. She's the first female coach at Notre
Speaker 1: Dame to have a statue in her honor.
Speaker 2: It's Muffett McGraw. Welcome back, Muffett thiks.
Speaker 4: Sarah, those numbers kind of pale in comparison to one
Speaker 4: Tara Vanderverer.
Speaker 1: They are both far too long for me to say
Speaker 1: the full bio. I had to do a lot of
Speaker 1: editing to just get to the very best up. I
Speaker 1: am so excited to have you both here. I am
Speaker 1: so excited to talk about your memories from your tournament battles,
Speaker 1: how we can get more women into college coaching, and
Speaker 1: so much more. But I want to start with those
Speaker 1: meetings in March, because I think it's so rare and
Speaker 1: unique to have two Hall of Fame incredible coaches on
Speaker 1: to share what their perspective was during those meetings, And
Speaker 1: I want to start with the first one. Twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen season Sweet sixteen matchup. Muffett, your Notre Dame
Speaker 1: team was thirty six and three overall, fifteen and one
Speaker 1: in the ACC, won the ACC Tournament, Jewel Lloyd, Brionna Turner,
Speaker 1: Lindsay Allen, Tara your Stanford team twenty six and ten
Speaker 1: overall thirteen and five, and PAC twelve play winners of
Speaker 1: the PAC twelve Tournament, Amber Orange, Lily Thompson, Bonnie Samuelson,
Speaker 1: Kaylee Johnson leading the way on that roster. Notre Dame
Speaker 1: is a number one seed. They win over number four
Speaker 1: Stanford eighty one to sixty. Muffett, what do you remember
Speaker 1: about that game plan?
Speaker 4: You know, I love playing against Tar because she is
Speaker 4: just such a terrific strategist in the game. And I
Speaker 4: don't remember exactly what our game plan was. When you
Speaker 4: have players like Jewel Lloyd, you expected they're going to
Speaker 4: just step up and play really well. I know she's
Speaker 4: really far to guard, but Lindsay Allen came out was
Speaker 4: a fantastic game that night also, so Lindsay and Jewel.
Speaker 4: You know, Tar, you gotta win with guards in the
Speaker 4: NCAA tournament, and I had some pretty good guards that year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jewelloyd seventeen of her twenty one points in the
Speaker 1: second half of that game. Do you remember being on
Speaker 1: the sideline and trying different things to stop her or
Speaker 1: figuring out how you could try to make somebody else
Speaker 1: beat you down the stretch?
Speaker 3: I can. I can picture some of the misery of
Speaker 3: that game. But they were just that good. They were
Speaker 3: They were just that good. And you know, Joe Lloyd,
Speaker 3: it wouldn't matter who you were putting honor, and you know,
Speaker 3: our team was you know, I think that our team
Speaker 3: was still a young team at that point and we
Speaker 3: were It's kind of weird that we were in Notre
Speaker 3: Dame's bracket like so many times, yeah, in the beginning
Speaker 3: of my career, but way at the end and uh
Speaker 3: they again, Muffett does a great job with their team.
Speaker 3: They had really talented team, and you know, there there
Speaker 3: was just no beating him that year.
Speaker 2: Muffett.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Tara being a great strategist. When you're entering
Speaker 1: a game against a coach that you've had a good
Speaker 1: look at, they've been at it for a while, even
Speaker 1: if you haven't faced each other in the tournament before,
Speaker 1: do you try to get ahead of what you think
Speaker 1: they're gonna do. Usually this is what Tara does here,
Speaker 1: or usually this is how they counteract here. Does it
Speaker 1: make it any easier to have some proof of concept
Speaker 1: from a coach?
Speaker 4: You know, I think coaches like Tara they change things frequently.
Speaker 4: I think there's some coaches out there like, we're a
Speaker 4: Manda man team and we're only gonna do this and
Speaker 4: this is what we do on offense. I think with
Speaker 4: Tara is like I want to win, and here's how
Speaker 4: best to guard the seams, so you get a good
Speaker 4: look at how you should be guarded. And I wish
Speaker 4: we've played earlier in the years so I could learn,
Speaker 4: you know, throughout the year, like I got to fix
Speaker 4: all these things instead of waiting for the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 4: But just you never really knew exactly what to expect.
Speaker 4: But you just knew that they were gonna be a
Speaker 4: great rebounding team, they were going to be a great
Speaker 4: defensive team. And we've run a lot of the same
Speaker 4: stuff on offense, you know, variations of the Princeton offense,
Speaker 4: so a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2: Tara, you mentioned you had a young team that year.
Speaker 1: If you think just looking at the talent matchup that
Speaker 1: your squad doesn't probably match up as well, do you
Speaker 1: try to get more creative, maybe a little gimmicky and
Speaker 1: some things to see if you can change the odds.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think the NCAA tournament's are time to
Speaker 3: try to new things. You got to kind of go
Speaker 3: what's been working for for you. You're not gonna You're
Speaker 3: not gonna do gimmicky things. You're gonna do what's work,
Speaker 3: what works for you, And I would say what we
Speaker 3: would try to do is I will say play scouting,
Speaker 3: report defense, So we will you know, look at the numbers.
Speaker 3: You can watch energy, you know, and you have to
Speaker 3: kind of pick your poison. You you know, you have
Speaker 3: to know kind of who to guard and who to guard,
Speaker 3: how you have to double, you know, depending upon their
Speaker 3: inside game. And but when you have the combination of
Speaker 3: great players and great coaching, you're you're up a crick
Speaker 3: without a paddle. That was that, That was what was
Speaker 3: in that situation.
Speaker 1: So you meet in the very next season in the
Speaker 1: sweet sixteen again, twenty fifteen sixteen muff. At this time
Speaker 1: your team's thirty three and two overall sixteen and ozer
Speaker 1: one ACC Play winners of the ACC Tournament. This roster
Speaker 1: Breonna Turner, Lindsay Allen, Madison Cable, and you add some youngsters.
Speaker 2: In Ari Gay Gumbawalle and Marina maybriy Tar.
Speaker 1: Your Stanford team twenty seven and eight, fourteen and four
Speaker 1: and PAC twelve play. You finished it at tie for third,
Speaker 1: but you got an at large bid to the tournament.
Speaker 1: You're led again by Lilly Bonnie and Kayley, but also
Speaker 1: so Erica McCall. You as a number four seed, upset
Speaker 1: number one Notre Dame ninety to eighty four and lexingting.
Speaker 1: That ends a twenty six game winning streak for the
Speaker 1: Irish Tara.
Speaker 2: What do you remember about that day?
Speaker 3: I probably should have done my homework, and I know
Speaker 3: we're gonna go back through all the game. You know, again,
Speaker 3: sometimes you just you have a good game and different
Speaker 3: people step up. And when you're a number four, and
Speaker 3: maybe you played a team the last year, I don't
Speaker 3: remember anything specific about that game.
Speaker 1: But let me jog your memory because I can almost
Speaker 1: guess that Muffett might remember these two numbers. Your team
Speaker 1: shot fifty five point nine percent overall and fifty five
Speaker 1: percent from three. You mentioned sometimes you just have a
Speaker 1: good game. That's a pretty good game, Uh, Muffett, What
Speaker 1: do you remember about trying to stop them when they're
Speaker 1: shooting that?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: You know, I think we had the lead for a
Speaker 4: lot of the time during that game, and we just
Speaker 4: could not defensively figure out a way to guardment where
Speaker 4: we were a zone team back then, we of course
Speaker 4: had to go Amanda man I had a couple of
Speaker 4: really weak defenders of him, specifically, I don't want to
Speaker 4: mention any names we show. We're getting out on this
Speaker 4: get out of the three point shooters, and you know,
Speaker 4: it came right down to the wire. I think we
Speaker 4: had a shot to win it right at the end. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the suck up.
Speaker 1: Blocked well to your point, you actually were down by
Speaker 1: as many as fifteen points, but then you got it
Speaker 1: to a three point game with two minutes left, and
Speaker 1: you really had an opportunity to undo what had been
Speaker 1: a tough game for your team for most of it.
Speaker 1: But then, man, just Erica McCall twenty seven points, tart.
Speaker 1: What's it like to watch someone have their career high
Speaker 1: in a game.
Speaker 2: That's that important?
Speaker 3: You know, what's what's really fun and for someone like
Speaker 3: Erica McCall is for her to have a great game
Speaker 3: because she is just a great person. When you have
Speaker 3: a player on your team that is so special as
Speaker 3: a person, as a teammate, you you know, it's doubly
Speaker 3: rewarding as a coach when you see them perform, especially
Speaker 3: at a big stage. There could be no one that
Speaker 3: is happier or you know, a better teammate than Erica.
Speaker 3: So I was just really thrilled for her, and she
Speaker 3: struggled like making the adjustment to college basketball and kind
Speaker 3: of find her way. And you know, obviously she had
Speaker 3: a good game that particular game.
Speaker 1: She said that the team was calling themselves party crashers
Speaker 1: beforehand because they knew what a great team Notre Dame
Speaker 1: had Muffett. You'd won twenty seven straight games that had
Speaker 1: been decided in single digits or overtime, hadn't lost a
Speaker 1: single digit margin since twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: That's pretty wild. That's a long stretch to go of
Speaker 2: being clutch.
Speaker 4: You know, I wonder why I accepted the invitation to
Speaker 4: join this little podcast right now. Oh my gosh, like
Speaker 4: bringing up those memories, like I clearly remember the end
Speaker 4: of that game, and you know, it's interesting about the
Speaker 4: end of that game. We went to a rique Ogu Muwalian.
Speaker 4: She was young, she was a young player, and she
Speaker 4: was the one I had confidence in to take that
Speaker 4: last shot. And you know, we ran and played it.
Speaker 4: We'd run quite a few times, and Erica McCall just
Speaker 4: made a great plight block in the shot. But it
Speaker 4: was it was it was a shame that we had
Speaker 4: to play them back to back and then again, you know,
Speaker 4: a couple of years later.
Speaker 1: Well, I hate to move on to the next year
Speaker 1: and rub it in some more, but this is really good.
Speaker 2: It's good to talk to very.
Speaker 1: Successful people about times when things didn't work out. We're
Speaker 1: so used to talking about the wins, but you can't
Speaker 1: win every time. The next year, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: you meet again, this time in the Elite eight.
Speaker 2: Buffett thirty three and four, fifteen and.
Speaker 1: One in the ACC won the regular season and the
Speaker 1: ACC tournament for the four straight year. You got a
Speaker 1: Rique Marina, Brianna Lindsay and a freshman Jackie Young. Tara's
Speaker 1: Stanford team thirty two and six, fifteen and three in
Speaker 1: the PAC twelve won the PAC twelve tournament. You got McCall, Samuelson,
Speaker 1: Brittany McPhee on that roster. Youngsters Alana Smith and dj
Speaker 1: A Carrington joined the party for that one. Number two
Speaker 1: Stanford wins a nail bier seventy six, seventy five. This
Speaker 1: was number one seed, Notre Dame's first loss, and that
Speaker 1: lead eight with you at the hell Muffet.
Speaker 2: This was a tough one. What stands out to you
Speaker 2: about that one? That one's real type.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've obviously put that one right out of my mind.
Speaker 4: We you know, I think we were nine and one
Speaker 4: in games to go to the fun of four and yeah,
Speaker 4: I really I've forgotten about that one. I've I've tried
Speaker 4: to forget about it, and I think I was successful
Speaker 4: in doing so successful.
Speaker 1: Tara might remember that they were down by sixteen points.
Speaker 1: They had an absolutely disastrous second where you did switch
Speaker 1: from zone to man and they were really having trouble scoring.
Speaker 1: But then the Cardinal outscored you twenty four to twelve
Speaker 1: in the third, which set it up to be a
Speaker 1: real game. Brittany McFee had nine in the fourth, twenty
Speaker 1: seven overall. What do you remember about Brittany McFee in
Speaker 1: that one, Tara?
Speaker 3: You know what I remember is Erique being a tremendous
Speaker 3: talent and no garter. And you know, I think that
Speaker 3: when you have when you're in the locker room at
Speaker 3: halftime and you're getting beat like a drum, you know,
Speaker 3: when someone says i'll garter, you know you're just like, okay,
Speaker 3: that you respect someone that will give it a try.
Speaker 3: And again, I think that it was really unfortunate that
Speaker 3: you have teams that have the equal ability to go
Speaker 3: to the final four, and we again end up in
Speaker 3: the same bracket, and that game was the one that
Speaker 3: you know, we were down, we got some momentum, we
Speaker 3: started hitting some shots people. You know, I just we
Speaker 3: we ran some a couple of plays here and there.
Speaker 3: There's some turnovers and we did we got the momentum
Speaker 3: at the end, and we're really fortunate to win the game.
Speaker 2: You mentioned halftime.
Speaker 1: Did you sort of throughout your career have a general
Speaker 1: approach to how to rally a team when you're down
Speaker 1: big at the half or was it really dependent on
Speaker 1: which players were in the room and what they better
Speaker 1: responded to.
Speaker 3: Well, this particular halftime was we were we were stuck
Speaker 3: in the mud. We were we looked awful. I was
Speaker 3: going down the hall to the halftime and Erica McCall
Speaker 3: went running by and to the coaches are there, and
Speaker 3: she goes, we got them right where we want them,
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, what the hell game is? She and so.
Speaker 3: But but I think that that's where, you know, your
Speaker 3: team leadership really makes a big difference. And I think
Speaker 3: it would agree that when you have great team leaders,
Speaker 3: you know, they never give up, they work really hard,
Speaker 3: and you know, I hope that this not reminiscing necessarily
Speaker 3: about games, but when with Muffett's team, you know, both
Speaker 3: she and I have coach teams that have won national championships.
Speaker 3: It's more like, what what are the things that what
Speaker 3: are the things that you need to win a national championship?
Speaker 3: And you know, we didn't win that year. Actually we
Speaker 3: were up against South Carolina when we went on to
Speaker 3: the final four, we were up against South Carolina and
Speaker 3: Carlie Samilinson got hurt and that big We're up seven,
Speaker 3: I think or nine a half time. But you know,
Speaker 3: when you're that close, like when you have these teams
Speaker 3: that are this close, little things just have to go right.
Speaker 3: You have to keep people healthy. You can't have fouls.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you look this year with Juju
Speaker 3: get hurt. So it's not it's not really what happened
Speaker 3: in those games so much, but what you know, how
Speaker 3: do you keep like how does how did Muffett like
Speaker 3: keep getting your team back to the final four year
Speaker 3: after year and winning and getting the championship game. It's
Speaker 3: it's what you're teaching every day. It's the good kids
Speaker 3: that you have on your team. It's the leadership on
Speaker 3: your team. And I think those are the things that
Speaker 3: are much more important than you know what what we
Speaker 3: remember maybe from those regular games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean clearly it's about the longevity.
Speaker 1: And we've talked on this show before about how do
Speaker 1: you as a coach get your players through the understanding
Speaker 1: that they can do everything right, but it can be
Speaker 1: a missed call, it can be a ball off your
Speaker 1: foot that goes to the other team at the end.
Speaker 3: I mean that happened yesterday for LSU right in front
Speaker 3: of Kim's bench. She was going nuts. It was clearly
Speaker 3: off the other team. And you know, but that happens.
Speaker 1: It's basketball, right, There's only so much that's in your control.
Speaker 1: So Muffett, when you're either starting a tournament run with
Speaker 1: the team or maybe in the midst of the really
Speaker 1: tough games, how do you communicate to them to just
Speaker 1: be in charge of what they can be in charge of?
Speaker 4: You know, my thing in the tournament was always we're
Speaker 4: going to do it exactly the same way we've been
Speaker 4: doing it all year long. If you weren't on the
Speaker 4: team bus, you didn't travel with us, you weren't traveling
Speaker 4: with us in the final four, you weren't eating team
Speaker 4: meals with us. Our team was doing exactly the same thing.
Speaker 4: So I wanted them to feel like, we've done this before.
Speaker 4: This is how we prepared. There's nothing new, no flashy things. No.
Speaker 4: I never let the media in my locker rooms because
Speaker 4: I'm not giving a big huddle of time, you know,
Speaker 4: big cheerleading speech. You know, we're just saying, hey, this
Speaker 4: is what we need to do, kind of based on
Speaker 4: facts and knowing your team. You know, I think letting them.
Speaker 4: I kind of stayed away from them because I was
Speaker 4: usually a wreck. I mean I'm like, I'm thinking of
Speaker 4: everything that could go wrong. One thing I did really
Speaker 4: well was catastrophized the situation. I mean I could find
Speaker 4: something that was going to go wrong at any moment.
Speaker 4: So I was like, you guys, go over there. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna be over here and worrying.
Speaker 2: I'll see.
Speaker 3: I love it. I kind of did this the opposite.
Speaker 3: I would say, this is an omen something would happen.
Speaker 3: I see, this is a good omen. So if we
Speaker 3: had one time we had like our bus broke down,
Speaker 3: you know, and then the next time I told the
Speaker 3: bus driver, I said stall the bus, because you know,
Speaker 3: when the bus broke down and we did so well,
Speaker 3: so looking for good things that you know are are
Speaker 3: this this is our year, this is this.
Speaker 1: Is what we can do it or manufacturing them if
Speaker 1: it's required. I want to get to some bigger picture questions.
Speaker 1: I think you're right, Tara, it's about approach. But there's
Speaker 1: one last meeting I just want to touch on. You
Speaker 1: actually avoided each other for a year. It was a
Speaker 1: good year for Notre Dame. Muffett and company won it
Speaker 1: all in twenty seventeen eighteen. We all remember a rique
Speaker 1: shot that was just one of my favorite favorites of
Speaker 1: all time.
Speaker 2: But then you meet again the next year.
Speaker 1: You had again in the same region area twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: nineteen in the Sweet sixteen. This is your final meeting
Speaker 1: in the tournament, Muffett. Your team's thirty five and four overall,
Speaker 1: fourteen and two in the ACC. You get an at
Speaker 1: large bit because you get second in the tourney. You
Speaker 1: still got Arik Brianna, Marina Jackie and senior Jessica Shepherd
Speaker 1: steps up.
Speaker 2: Tara.
Speaker 1: You we were thirty one and five, fifteen and three
Speaker 1: in the Pac twelve. You won the Pac twelve tournament.
Speaker 1: You got Alana Smith dejon A Keana Williams, Maya Dodson,
Speaker 1: and you got the freshman Hall sisters Lexi and Lacy
Speaker 1: who are now on the team. Number one seed Notre
Speaker 1: Dame gets the win eighty four to sixty eight over
Speaker 1: number two Stanford.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that one? Muffett?
Speaker 4: That one I remember. I remember because we played in
Speaker 4: Chicago and we had such a great Notre Dame crowd.
Speaker 4: It was green everywhere and we had I think it
Speaker 4: was close to a sellout, if not a sellout. That
Speaker 4: was an exciting game. I remember because we had some
Speaker 4: role players come off the bench and make some big shots.
Speaker 4: When I think we were starting to get a little tight,
Speaker 4: and I had a player, Abby Prohaska came in. It
Speaker 4: just made a great driving layup, but it just sort
Speaker 4: of made everybody relax. So I do remember winning that
Speaker 4: game in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Arique again twenty one points, Jackie Young twenty five points,
Speaker 1: ten rebounds in that one, and then Keanu Williams had
Speaker 1: a great game for stan Ford twenty points in the
Speaker 1: los Djona had eighteen. Notre was ten of thirty nine
Speaker 1: in the first half, but then they went to outscore
Speaker 1: Stanford twenty six thirteen and the third and then ended
Speaker 1: up going on a run late. So another game where
Speaker 1: it's kind of like Tara, your team was in it
Speaker 1: and then that last late run from the from the
Speaker 1: Irish ends up being ends up being the difference. How
Speaker 1: do you strategize down the stretching games of like when
Speaker 1: do I let my players figure this out?
Speaker 2: When do I call a time out?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to get it at the beginning of
Speaker 1: when the blood letting starts, or how do you strategize?
Speaker 3: Well, in a game like that, you don't want to
Speaker 3: let the second half get away from you. But at
Speaker 3: the same time, I don't know if Muffett did this,
Speaker 3: but with the ability to advance the ball, you if
Speaker 3: you can keep it close, you want to have that,
Speaker 3: you know, a couple of those in your pocket so
Speaker 3: that you can advance the ball. So if you know
Speaker 3: but you can't, I'm sure I kind of let you know,
Speaker 3: took time out, and you know, if you're going to
Speaker 3: go down, if you're down fifteen or so, you know,
Speaker 3: no sense in saving them. But you know, if it's
Speaker 3: within a I think five to six point game, then
Speaker 3: I'm saving timeouts and hoping that you know, we can
Speaker 3: keep it close. And with the ability to advance the ball,
Speaker 3: which I think makes women's basketball so exciting. I don't
Speaker 3: know why the men are not playing quarters and advancing it,
Speaker 3: but it really you're always in it, you know, you can.
Speaker 3: You can get a lot of possessions with in the
Speaker 3: last thirty seconds, with that ability to take a time
Speaker 3: out and advance, get a shot, foul, get a shot,
Speaker 3: you know, advance, get a shot foul again.
Speaker 4: So I think it's a big decision when you call
Speaker 4: those timeouts. And I think when you're watching games now,
Speaker 4: you'll see some runs early in the game and you think, man,
Speaker 4: they could have used the time out, but they're trying
Speaker 4: to save them. And I think the balance for me
Speaker 4: was always young team versus veteran team. You know, veteran
Speaker 4: team's gonna be able to figure it out on their own,
Speaker 4: but a young team sometimes you just got to use it.
Speaker 2: In the first half, we have to take a quick break.
Speaker 1: More with Tara and Muffett in a minute. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
Speaker 1: presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada. Now
Speaker 1: back to my conversation with Muffett McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious some longtime college coaches seem to
Speaker 1: have great relationships and others not so much. So I'm wondering, Muffett,
Speaker 1: did you intentionally or maybe even subconsciously coach differently against
Speaker 1: coaches that you didn't like. No, don't pull the starters,
Speaker 1: beat the brakes of them.
Speaker 4: I was just selling civil the other day. When we
Speaker 4: beat Connecticut in the semi final in twenty eighteen and
Speaker 4: went on to win the championship in an exciting game
Speaker 4: against Mississippi State, I only ever watched the Connecticut game
Speaker 4: again because I just enjoyed those rivalries with Connecticut and
Speaker 4: I enjoyed beating them, So when you know, whenever we
Speaker 4: did beat them, it was it was always a lot
Speaker 4: more fun. But I don't think I don't think I
Speaker 4: coached any different. I think, you know, it was it
Speaker 4: was nice to be the underdog sometimes I'm playing Connecticut.
Speaker 4: A lot of times we were at the underdog.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tara, how about you?
Speaker 3: You know, I think one of the things that I
Speaker 3: think I was really fortunate and I would probably think
Speaker 3: of it would say the same, is that you know,
Speaker 3: like I grew up, I was at basketball camp with
Speaker 3: Muffett at Kathy Rush basketball camp way back in the day.
Speaker 3: So a lot of the coaches that I grew up
Speaker 3: playing against were actually my friends. And you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know that a lot of coaches can say that
Speaker 3: other coaches are their friends now with all that's going
Speaker 3: on with the portal and the poaching and you know,
Speaker 3: all that kind of thing, and I think that that's
Speaker 3: something that's really lacking from the game of basketball, you know,
Speaker 3: something that was really special that we you know, we
Speaker 3: would see each other on the road, and you know,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I didn't ever dislike any of
Speaker 3: the coaches, and I never would ever run the score
Speaker 3: up because that would risk your own players being hurt.
Speaker 3: And I I don't think it's healthy for our game.
Speaker 3: You know, if you win by twenty, that's okay. Anything
Speaker 3: over thirty to me is rubbing it. And I never
Speaker 3: like a thirty point or more for anyone. You know,
Speaker 3: when I see these games that are, you know, forty
Speaker 3: fifty point games, I don't think that's healthy for our
Speaker 3: sport or for the young people that are playing. We
Speaker 3: want to encourage people.
Speaker 1: To play, so not to mention that's a real opportunity
Speaker 1: to put some people in that you never know because
Speaker 1: of injury or otherwise. Mike need later in the season
Speaker 1: and need to have been in a game against some
Speaker 1: top competition and some some other teams.
Speaker 4: Hey, I want to make a side note.
Speaker 2: I liked you know.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was just fun to beat them.
Speaker 1: I didn't assume it meant you didn't like him, but
Speaker 1: I understood that there was a rivalry there, and it
Speaker 1: define to beat the top dog.
Speaker 3: Did you guys have a bet on Philly cheese steaks
Speaker 3: or something there, you know, Philadelphia?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should have. I mean, we know how to
Speaker 4: talk to each other.
Speaker 3: Philly.
Speaker 4: They have their own language, so we never got upset
Speaker 4: with each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is Philly the one that always says Yin's Or
Speaker 1: is that Pittsburgh?
Speaker 2: That's Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4: That's Pittsburgh. Yeah, we're like you guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to hear more about playing together at
Speaker 1: Camp Muffett.
Speaker 2: What do you remember about that?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, yeah I remember that was I was
Speaker 4: still coaching high school and then an assistant at Saint Joe's,
Speaker 4: so Tar was, Uh, she was a head coach at
Speaker 4: that time, and I was just thinking Wow. She came
Speaker 4: a long way to go to this camp and it
Speaker 4: was a coaching camp. It was a no but we
Speaker 4: would have staff games. You know, we play after the
Speaker 4: kids were done and you know, you already worked like
Speaker 4: a twelve hour day and then you're like, man, let's
Speaker 4: get the games going. You know this it was just
Speaker 4: so fun.
Speaker 3: The games were outside on like you know, hardcourt, Like yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, it was hot and it was hot. I
Speaker 3: remember like one time it was so hot we had
Speaker 3: to take kids into the pool so they didn't, you know,
Speaker 3: have exhaustion. And I mean it was it was fun,
Speaker 3: but it was work and I was you know, there
Speaker 3: were times I think before I met Muffett though, I
Speaker 3: was I was roommates with like Debbie Ryan or Mary
Speaker 3: and Stanley, and I'm a little bit I'm older than Muffett,
Speaker 3: but you know, she would she she was a great
Speaker 3: player when she played. Was your teammate at Saint Joe's.
Speaker 3: It came to camp too. Do you remember there was
Speaker 3: there was a you kind of were not you were
Speaker 3: kind of the same build.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Mary Sue Gerty was one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys were teared up in the pickup.
Speaker 2: Games, you know, Oh, that sounds like fun games.
Speaker 3: With Carol blas Showski. I mean there were some I'm
Speaker 3: telling you, there's some hoopers that were playing in these games.
Speaker 3: It was fun.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I missed just playing
Speaker 1: basketball all day, Like it didn't matter if it was
Speaker 1: outside the asphalt or if you had like an aau
Speaker 1: and you had four games in the same day in
Speaker 1: a gym with no ac and your body still worked,
Speaker 1: and you could do it all day long.
Speaker 2: Like what a dream that was.
Speaker 3: I don't know that. I don't know that young players
Speaker 3: loved the game in the way that I feel like
Speaker 3: I love the game. I mean I was crazy about
Speaker 3: playing all the time. I didn't have I didn't have
Speaker 3: nil of course, I didn't have a scholarship. I bought
Speaker 3: my own shoes, you know. I mean it was just
Speaker 3: but going to the gym and playing pick up or
Speaker 3: like at camp at camp, at our Stanford camp, we
Speaker 3: had three courts going and we played to midnight and
Speaker 3: winners got the middle court, you know, and it was
Speaker 3: a big deal and you were playing with all the
Speaker 3: staff people. It was fun. And I don't know that
Speaker 3: young players, what do you think, MOFE. Do they enjoy
Speaker 3: playing as much as we did.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't even think they care if they
Speaker 4: win in AU. I don't think they shouldn't even bother
Speaker 4: keeping score.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder there's a couple of reasons for that.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: It's always hard to make generalizations about everybody, But I
Speaker 1: do think number one, when you insert the nil and
Speaker 1: the money and the stress and the pressure, it's great
Speaker 1: in the sense of helping professionalize and offer opportunity, but
Speaker 1: it's also hard because it does make it about that sometimes,
Speaker 1: or there is this added pressure of if I don't
Speaker 1: get this while I get this deal, or that kind
Speaker 1: of thing. But I also think I wonder about generationally
Speaker 1: what it meant to be allowed to play sport, to
Speaker 1: be embodied, to be free out on a court in
Speaker 1: the seventies.
Speaker 2: And eighties versus now.
Speaker 1: Right, there's an entitlement to it now, fifty plus years
Speaker 1: after Title nine. Of like, of course playing basketball, But
Speaker 1: I wonder if when you guys were growing up, it
Speaker 1: felt more like against the rules or this this is
Speaker 1: my identity because it's something I care so much about
Speaker 1: that not all other girls and women do.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: There were definitely stereotypes I mean it was always me
Speaker 4: and nine guys down at the playground. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 4: I was always the only girl, and I think that
Speaker 4: really served me well for the future to break into
Speaker 4: this men's world of sports. And I think that there
Speaker 4: was a lot of things said. We were called tomboys,
Speaker 4: you know, there was like name calling, and it just
Speaker 4: it just wasn't socially acceptable at the time. So we did.
Speaker 4: We fought a lot of areas. Title line had just
Speaker 4: been announced, but it wasn't really put into effect yet.
Speaker 4: I mean, we were pretty lucky. We had a team.
Speaker 4: My team is Saint Joe's first team ever because of
Speaker 4: Title nine and you know tours, right, We bought our
Speaker 4: own shoes. We didn't have we don't have practice clothes,
Speaker 4: you know, we drove ourselves to games. There was a
Speaker 4: lot of things that we had to do for ourselves
Speaker 4: back then that these kids now, you know, you just
Speaker 4: want to say, you have no idea, how good you
Speaker 4: have it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, although sometimes that for whatever reason, that
Speaker 1: self determination kind of pushes you to care more about
Speaker 1: something than when it's either handed to you or someone
Speaker 1: else wants you to do it, which is maybe more
Speaker 1: the case now with so many people set to benefit
Speaker 1: from girls that are at great at basketball. You know, Muffett,
Speaker 1: you mentioned it helped you sort of in this industry.
Speaker 1: Last time you were on, we played your now pretty
Speaker 1: infamous speech about the importance of hiring women assistants. You
Speaker 1: started exclusively having female assistant coaches in twenty twelve, Tara,
Speaker 1: and you're twenty sorry, thirty nine years at Stanford. You
Speaker 1: never once had a male assistant coach in your couple
Speaker 1: stops before Stanford. Even then you hired just one. And
Speaker 1: I would love to hear what both of you would
Speaker 1: do first if you were put in charge tomorrow of
Speaker 1: increasing the number of female coaches in college basketball, Like,
Speaker 1: what would be your very first move tar that you
Speaker 1: think would help address that?
Speaker 3: Well? I think that, you know, giving women the opportunity
Speaker 3: I always encourage them to like work at basketball camps,
Speaker 3: to volunteer, to you know, not feel like you you know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of opportunities now because you're you can
Speaker 3: have what total of six people on your staff, and
Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of opportunities to hire women and
Speaker 3: if there's someone that and to really outwork people. I'll
Speaker 3: just tell you a quick story my sister, Heidi, who
Speaker 3: is ten years younger than me, wanted to go into coaching,
Speaker 3: and I said, Heidi, the best thing to do is
Speaker 3: to get trained somewhere. And so I said, you can
Speaker 3: go three places. You can come to Ohio state where
Speaker 3: I am, but I will tell you everything I know. Anyway,
Speaker 3: don't do that. So you have two choices. You can
Speaker 3: go to Tennessee with Pat Summit, or you can go
Speaker 3: to Texas with Jody Conrad, because those were the top
Speaker 3: women at the time, you know, coaching. And I said,
Speaker 3: I'll pay for your graduate school. I said, but I
Speaker 3: have one rule. You have to be the first one
Speaker 3: in the office and the last one to leave every day.
Speaker 3: So she went to Tennessee and within one week she
Speaker 3: called me and she said, I have a full graduate
Speaker 3: assistant position. I said, how'd you get that? Because I
Speaker 3: was the first one in the office and the last
Speaker 3: one to leave. So women can't be They have to be,
Speaker 3: you know, really motivated, hard working, but we have to
Speaker 3: give them opportunities. And when we look at coaching, you know,
Speaker 3: in when back when I was first playing, most of
Speaker 3: the jobs, ninety percent of the jobs were women because
Speaker 3: there was no money and as soon as money came
Speaker 3: into it in prestige. Then now half the jobs in
Speaker 3: women's basketball are men, whereas all the jobs in men's
Speaker 3: basketball are men. So you know, seventy five percent of
Speaker 3: the jobs are going to men and we need to
Speaker 3: balance it out. And honestly, I think a staff of
Speaker 3: both men and women is ideal, but men won't hire women.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, I've got to hire women and
Speaker 3: give them the opportunity.
Speaker 1: As the older I get, and I've said this before,
Speaker 1: the more I feel like overcorrection is necessary. If we've
Speaker 1: given the world a million opportunities to help with the
Speaker 1: equity and equality equation and it's not been fixed by
Speaker 1: the men in charge, then the women in charge have
Speaker 1: to overcorrect. And to your point, I think, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're not included in men's basketball, then you sort of
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to have women in women's basketball.
Speaker 2: Muffett, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1: I think if you had if someone said tomorrow, your
Speaker 1: new job is helping fix this problem, where do you start?
Speaker 4: You know, I think there's there's two parts in that.
Speaker 4: One is the athletic director is mostly white men. They're
Speaker 4: still doing the hiring and they're hiring a lot of men,
Speaker 4: and I think that one of the reasons is the
Speaker 4: way women interview and the way they apply for jobs.
Speaker 4: I think we need to be better at being more
Speaker 4: aggressive going after the job and women talk with we
Speaker 4: you know, well, here's what we did, my staff did this.
Speaker 4: When you compliment a woman, it's always like, well, everybody
Speaker 4: did their job, and we all, you know, put together,
Speaker 4: and men are like, here's what I did, and here's
Speaker 4: what I can do. And you know, some of the
Speaker 4: guys that left my staff, I would think, I thought
Speaker 4: I did a lot of those things, but apparently you
Speaker 4: did all of those because that's what your resume reflects.
Speaker 4: So I think that we need to teach women. First
Speaker 4: of all, we need the network better, We need to
Speaker 4: put ourselves out there. We need to be able to
Speaker 4: take hearing no. Guys don't care if they hear no.
Speaker 4: They make up any excuse, Well they were looking for
Speaker 4: this and that, and I didn't have that. But women
Speaker 4: we take it personally and we're really loyal, like we
Speaker 4: like to stay where we are, and I think that's
Speaker 4: a part of the punk. We have our networks, we
Speaker 4: have our help with our families and all those other things,
Speaker 4: But I think a lot of it is still if
Speaker 4: a woman fails, the ad is thinking I got to
Speaker 4: hire a guy because it didn't work with every.
Speaker 1: Woman, right, and that seems to be the case in
Speaker 1: so many places. It happens also with coaches of color.
Speaker 1: Often the gender or the races to be blamed and
Speaker 1: then everybody from that category is out and we're back
Speaker 1: to white menigan because they never reflect on each other.
Speaker 3: You know, I want to thank Muffett for contributing to
Speaker 3: the Women's Sports Foundation has a legacy fund. It is
Speaker 3: in my name, Yeah, but it's really for all women
Speaker 3: to develop women, to develop a pipeline of women where
Speaker 3: they're you know, given modest scholarship and through the Women's
Speaker 3: Sports Foundation, they can then work at a university that
Speaker 3: might not have the money to pay for another staff person.
Speaker 3: And I also think that you know, both Muffett and
Speaker 3: I have worked really hard at mentoring young women to
Speaker 3: get them ready for head positions. And if you look
Speaker 3: at the success of you know, the coach at Notre
Speaker 3: Dame now Ne l Ivy, was a assistant and she
Speaker 3: has other assistants that are doing extremely well throughout the country.
Speaker 3: So that's what we're doing you know, it's not we're
Speaker 3: we're not sitting back complaining about the fact that no, no,
Speaker 3: but we're doing something about it. And I'm really proud
Speaker 3: of the coaching tree that I have too, most proud
Speaker 3: of my sister. You know that it's done so well,
Speaker 3: but you know so it's mentoring and it's also supporting
Speaker 3: organizations that support women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely agree.
Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen is when you launched the Tara Vander of
Speaker 1: Your Fund for the Advancement of Women in Coaching with
Speaker 1: the Women's Sports Foundation, And to my question, that might
Speaker 1: have been your first step. You weren't assigned the task,
Speaker 1: but you took it anyway to help fund and create
Speaker 1: that pipeline, which is just so important. And of course
Speaker 1: the staffs that you have led throughout both of your
Speaker 1: careers are a huge part of helping fix that problem
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: You mentioned your sister Tar.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you quickly the emotions of watching
Speaker 1: her coach. You see San Diego in its first ever
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament appearance, where there are a lot of phone
Speaker 1: calls of advice or did you say, hands off, she's
Speaker 1: got this.
Speaker 3: No, you know, she watched our team. She she was
Speaker 3: at all those noted Dame games that we talked about,
Speaker 3: you know, but you know, I will tell you it
Speaker 3: was like a root canal watching and cheering was miserable.
Speaker 3: But I was so proud of Heidi. This is the
Speaker 3: first year that they were able to go to the
Speaker 3: NCAA tournament, and they qualified and they won their turn,
Speaker 3: their Big West tournament and both she and their men's
Speaker 3: team went. And you know, do you have to take
Speaker 3: baby steps?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I also I think Muff and I both would you know,
Speaker 3: we'd look at a bracket. We're always looking at number one,
Speaker 3: number two, number three, no four. You know, it's like
Speaker 3: who even pays attention to, you know, the sixteen seeds,
Speaker 3: and there's Heidi. And I'm like, I was so excited
Speaker 3: for her when her name came up. You know, their
Speaker 3: school came up, even they had to play, they played
Speaker 3: a play in game, but it was it was just
Speaker 3: so exciting for her and for us to really under
Speaker 3: you know, for the young people that get to go
Speaker 3: to the tournament is something really.
Speaker 2: Special for sure. So Root Canal watching your sister.
Speaker 1: What about the emotions watching Stanford miss the tournament after
Speaker 1: thirty six straight seasons in the dance.
Speaker 3: Well, you know it's uh. I thought, I thought Kate
Speaker 3: did a fabulous job this year. And you know, the
Speaker 3: the talent was not there. They had an injury for
Speaker 3: a player that missed eight games, they had another player
Speaker 3: there's out. But she has done Kate has done a
Speaker 3: fabulous job, you know, not just coaching but recruiting. And
Speaker 3: you know, I think Stanford we're going through a difficult
Speaker 3: time with getting a new athletic director, but it will
Speaker 3: We'll be back very soon. And I think it's the
Speaker 3: team played hard, the team. The team is a very
Speaker 3: well coached team, but we need to be bigger and
Speaker 3: more athletic and more experienced. So good good days are ahead.
Speaker 1: I think also anytime a legend leaves, there's an inevitability
Speaker 1: that there might be some feeling of like, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I want to be a part of
Speaker 1: this new regime or this this restarting of this program
Speaker 1: after for this, you know, incredible success, so that's.
Speaker 2: To be expected. I'll give them some time.
Speaker 3: I try I give both. I mean to follow Muffett,
Speaker 3: you know, coach is you know that's a tough that's
Speaker 3: a very tough situation. I think Kate, but I think
Speaker 3: they're They're very capable. And these are different times too,
Speaker 3: you know, all the portal, all the money rev sharing, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, collective money. This is a different time. And honestly,
Speaker 3: I I am so thankful for the time that I
Speaker 3: had as a coach, working with the players I worked with,
Speaker 3: working you know, on the sideline against people like Muffett
Speaker 3: and Gino and Pat. I have to pinch myself.
Speaker 1: I've had a magical run coach. It sounds like, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of the good old days kind
Speaker 1: of feeling about the days before the ni L and
Speaker 1: the transfer portal, and in so many ways the game
Speaker 1: is evolving in positive ways. For young women to be paid,
Speaker 1: to have opportunity to have a bunch of pro spaces
Speaker 1: of WNBA unrivaled and not just overseas, and all these things.
Speaker 2: But it does change the game.
Speaker 1: Is there a bittersweet sort of appreciation of the evolution.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I really agree they should make some money.
Speaker 4: I'm all for that. I think they should have to
Speaker 4: do something to make the money. I don't think somebody
Speaker 4: should just give it to them. I really hate that
Speaker 4: they get paid to do community service, which I think
Speaker 4: is kind of an oxymoron. You're supposed to be doing
Speaker 4: community service for a lot of reasons. I think we're
Speaker 4: missing the life skills that we used to teach them about,
Speaker 4: all the things that they had to learn, the discipline,
Speaker 4: the perseverance. You're maybe not going to start, You're maybe
Speaker 4: not going to play a lot as a freshmen. You've
Speaker 4: got to earn your way, and kids aren't willing to
Speaker 4: do that anymore. I think the combination transfer portal with
Speaker 4: the NIL when kids will just call and say, I
Speaker 4: want to transfer. How much you given me? That's the
Speaker 4: first question they ask. You know, what about you know,
Speaker 4: how does it fit?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: What about Notre Dame? What about the education? You know,
Speaker 4: we've totally lost the education because you're going to three
Speaker 4: and four schools. I mean, there's there's just nothing. And
Speaker 4: I just think it's really hurting them. I think it's
Speaker 4: hurting them for their future. Such a small percentage make
Speaker 4: it in the w What are they going to do
Speaker 4: when their phone's not going to ring and somebody's not
Speaker 4: going to say, here's one hundred thousand dollars to do
Speaker 4: absolutely nothing. They have to make their way in the world,
Speaker 4: and we're not preparing them to do that.
Speaker 3: I agree one hundred percent and that I do think
Speaker 3: that players should have the opportunity. You know, we go
Speaker 3: from one extreme where ten years ago you couldn't give
Speaker 3: a kid an apple unless you cut it up, and
Speaker 3: now you're talking about you know, but when you have
Speaker 3: when you have pro basketball, you have guardrails, and we
Speaker 3: don't have guardrails. Right now, we don't have guardrails. The
Speaker 3: horse is out of the barn and there's no fence
Speaker 3: that's run a while. Yes, nil is a good thing. Yes,
Speaker 3: pro opportunities are great things. I think I've transferred. I
Speaker 3: think transferring is you know, they should have the option
Speaker 3: to do that. But when you combine basically tampering, which
Speaker 3: we have going on, and that's not allowed in the pros.
Speaker 3: We don't have a salary cap, I think we're in
Speaker 3: some quick stand with things. And as Muffett has I
Speaker 3: think very astutely pointed out, this is not healthy for
Speaker 3: young people to be living in this la la land
Speaker 3: of you know, they're delusional about their abilities and you know,
Speaker 3: like you said, doing getting paid for community service that's
Speaker 3: an oxymoron.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're in this really interesting space of like appreciating
Speaker 1: the things that we've always wanted and asked for, but
Speaker 1: also understanding that some of the joy and the positives
Speaker 1: that we saw in women's sports as opposed to men's
Speaker 1: used to be playing for love of the game, not
Speaker 1: getting caught up in the under the table dealings, like
Speaker 1: all the stuff that comes when you infuse something with money,
Speaker 1: it becomes just another part of a larger capitalist system.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's a constant check into how
Speaker 1: do we get what the players deserve, and also not
Speaker 1: ruin what was at the heart of it and what
Speaker 1: made it so great. I know you all have to go,
Speaker 1: so I have one last question for you. We always
Speaker 1: ask people what advice they would give their younger self,
Speaker 1: But I feel like the words we tell our younger
Speaker 1: self often don't mean much or wouldn't mean much to
Speaker 1: that younger person. They don't have the wisdom and the
Speaker 1: experience or the context to get it yet.
Speaker 2: So instead I want to ask something you wish you.
Speaker 1: Already knew and understood in your twenties about life or
Speaker 1: about yourself.
Speaker 4: I wish I would have had more confidence. I don't
Speaker 4: think like most women. I think we all struggle with
Speaker 4: confidence at one time or another, and just that believing
Speaker 4: in yourself and doing what you know is right and
Speaker 4: realizing that people are going to criticize you no matter
Speaker 4: what you do, so you might as well feel good
Speaker 4: about what you do. Take a chance, you know, take
Speaker 4: a chance and go after what you want. I was
Speaker 4: really reluctant to do that for most of my young life.
Speaker 3: How about you, Tara, I think that you know, I
Speaker 3: guess if I were to, if I were to were
Speaker 3: able to go back to my twenty five year old self,
Speaker 3: I think I would probably take better care of myself.
Speaker 3: I would, you know. I was so crazy about working,
Speaker 3: and you know, whether it was recruiting or watching video
Speaker 3: I think I would have done more things for myself younger,
Speaker 3: and as I got older I figured it out. I
Speaker 3: just like I needed, you know, time to go to
Speaker 3: go to the lake, you know, but to work out,
Speaker 3: to eat eat right and not sacrifice, you know, just
Speaker 3: just realize it that your life is your life is
Speaker 3: not a dress rehearsal and every single day, you know,
Speaker 3: and not be I was a little bit, I think,
Speaker 3: very one dimensional and just like it was all about work. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I would have. I would have had more.
Speaker 1: Fun, more fun, more risks. All right, listen up, twenty somethings,
Speaker 1: more fun, more risks. Also, the patriarchy is a fucking trap.
Speaker 1: Learn it now. Don't work to appease men, don't align
Speaker 1: with men in power. Be the woman in power, and
Speaker 1: bring other women with you. That's what I would tell
Speaker 1: myself is learn way earlier how much of society's messaging
Speaker 1: to women is bullshit, and just start deciding that I
Speaker 1: don't have to play any of their rules.
Speaker 3: That's Sarah, Well, Sarah, what else you know? Let it
Speaker 3: all out there.
Speaker 2: I just know I waited until the end. I kept
Speaker 2: it classy until I showed her myself.
Speaker 3: Tar.
Speaker 2: We don't know each other very well, you know, all right.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah. I just want to just say it's
Speaker 3: an honor to be on a panel with Muffett and Muffett,
Speaker 3: it's great to see you, and yeah, you do. You
Speaker 3: do a tremendous job on television. I think that they
Speaker 3: ought to have more coaches talking about the game because
Speaker 3: you know what you're talking about. But thank you, appreciates
Speaker 3: a great job, and Sarah, thank you for including me.
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for coming on. This was
Speaker 1: such a fun, fun time. Thank you so much Tatar
Speaker 1: and Muffett for taking the time. We got to take
Speaker 1: another break stick around. Welcome back, slaicays. We love that
Speaker 1: you're listening, but we want to get you in the
Speaker 1: game every day too. So here's our good game play
Speaker 1: of the day, y'all. Don't wait to take a big swing.
Speaker 1: Don't be so afraid of failing that you don't even try.
Speaker 1: Don't be so risk averse that you never take a chance.
Speaker 1: If you've been waiting for a sign, this is it.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you and to me. I think we
Speaker 1: got to meet this weird, awful, scary moment with more
Speaker 1: bravery and self assuredness and audacity than we thought we
Speaker 1: had in us. Tara and Muffett said, so, so let's
Speaker 1: do it. We'd love to hear from you. Hit us
Speaker 1: up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or
Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh
Speaker 1: four fifty seventy. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, y'all.
Speaker 1: I tell you every day.
Speaker 2: Have you done it? Have you subscribed? Have you rated
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Speaker 2: nice review? It's really easy.
Speaker 1: Watch tag Notataro's audition to join our team review five
Speaker 1: out of five you got the job rating. Tag Noataro
Speaker 1: was the hilarious host of the fifth annual Ambi's Awards
Speaker 1: here in Chicago, and Good Game was nominated for Best
Speaker 1: Sports Podcast.
Speaker 2: Now we did not win. We lost to a curling
Speaker 2: show mm hmm, show about a broom.
Speaker 1: But we are not bitter. We're happy for them. As
Speaker 1: friend and fellow loser in her category. Pablo Torre said,
Speaker 1: I'm just glad Canada felt appreciated somewhere in this country.
Speaker 1: And as they say, honestly, just an honor to be nominated.
Speaker 1: And it was also an honor to be in the
Speaker 1: same room as Tig, one of my faves, especially when
Speaker 1: she perfectly nailed the behind the scenes production speak of
Speaker 1: every single podcast ever made.
Speaker 5: Now, before we get started, I need to do some housekeeping.
Speaker 5: First off, you'll all need your own headphones, so there's
Speaker 5: no feedback tonight, and we are recording on our end.
Speaker 5: But if you could all just use your voice memos
Speaker 5: yes for backup, we'd really appreciate it. And lastly, let's
Speaker 5: all hold for ten seconds for room tone.
Speaker 4: Okay, great, we got that tig.
Speaker 2: You're hired. We'll send you the link to join the
Speaker 2: next recording. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and.
Speaker 1: Review, Thanks for listening, and thanks again to Nissan and
Speaker 1: the all new Nissan Armada for making this legendary conversation happen.
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martin Knez, and Grace Lynch.
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Sarah Spain