1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to a very special episode of Good Game with 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Sarah Spain. Proudly sponsored by Nissan, The all new Nissan 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: Armada is the most powerful suv Nissan has ever made. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Rugged and gritty, but also luxurious. It's a premium vehicle 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: made for adventurers who are ready to conquer whatever's in 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: front of them, just like the coaches and athletes that 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: battle it out each year in the NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: Two of those coaches, all time greats of the game, 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: will join me today. It's Thursday, April third, and on 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: today's show, we'll be talking to former Stanford coach Tara 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: Vanderveer and former Notre Dame coach Muffett McGraw, two of 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: the winningest coaches in college basketball history. Over the last decade. 13 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: They got to know each other pretty well in March, 14 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: with their teams meeting four times in the NCAA Tournament, 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: all in the span of five years. Notre Dame one 16 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: two of those matchups, in twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen, 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: while Stanford won in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. We'll 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: find out what they remember about their four face offs 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: in the NCAA tournament brainstorm, how to get more women 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: into coaching, and talk about the pros and cons of 21 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: the changing women's game from increased investment to nil and. 22 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: The transfer portal. 23 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: I caught up with them earlier this week ahead of 24 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: the Final four this weekend in Tampa, Plus a portal shakeup, 25 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: more proof that knees should be banned, and Team Good 26 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Game looks to take a w from anel. It's all 27 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: you need to know today. Let's start with some news 29 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: that's shaking up both the college and pro hoops landscapes. 30 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: Notre Dame's Olivia Miles, who was widely expected to be 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: the number two pick in this year's WNBA draft, is 32 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: instead holding off on turning pro and entering the transfer portal. 33 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: ESPN's sham Sharani was the first to report the news 34 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: on Monday. Miles has one year of college eligibility remaining, 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: as she sat out all of last year with a 36 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: knee injury. After Notre Dames lost to TCU in the 37 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen, Miles hinted that she had a lot on 38 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: her mind. 39 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: Quote, I love college. 40 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: I think I've outgrown it a little bit, though, so 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: that makes my decision tough for to stay. It's comfortable 42 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: a place where you have security. The W the volatility 43 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: is up and down. 44 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: So I don't know. I'm deciding between a bunch of factors. 45 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: End quote. 46 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: So let me briefly add some context here that I 47 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: think matters. One, the Irish stumbled down the stretch and 48 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: then they got bounced in the sweet sixteen, so Miles 49 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: probably has a bad taste in her mouth about their finish. Two, 50 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: she wasn't healthy down the stretch, so her numbers suffered 51 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: and she couldn't be herself out there. Her March stats 52 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: were frankly not good. So maybe she wants to pull 53 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: a Haley van Lit, find somewhere she can thrive and 54 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: go out feeling better both in terms of personal and 55 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: team success. And or she's looking at the CBA negotiations 56 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: going on in the W. Now this is important because 57 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: she knows if she enters next year's draft, her rookie 58 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: deal will be under a new CBA that's expected to 59 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: pay players way more, and that's a three year deal 60 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: for rookies with a fourth year option, so it would 61 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: be at a much higher rookie salary than the one 62 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: players coming out this year are going to make. Now 63 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: the transfer part of this is more surprising to me 64 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: than the sticking around. But maybe there's more to the 65 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: story about why Notre Dame faltered late in the season, 66 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: or maybe more to know about miles relationship with the 67 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: coaching staff or teammates or the school we might find out. 68 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Important to note as well, just because she's in the 69 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: transfer portal, that doesn't mean she can't return to the Irish. 70 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: Miles does retain the right to stick around if she 71 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: doesn't like her options. More college hoops. The twenty twenty 72 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: four to twenty five Naysmith Award ceremony on Wednesday was 73 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: a West Side party, with USC star ju Ju Watkins 74 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: taking home National Player of the Year honors, UCLA center 75 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Lauren Betts winning Defensive Player of the Year, and UCLA 76 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: coach Corey Close. 77 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: Earning Coach of the Year honors. 78 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: The five finalists for the Wooden Award, given annually to 79 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: the most outstanding college basketball player in the country, were 80 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: also announced on Wednesday. There are some familiar names, USC's 81 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: ju Ju Watkins, UCLA's Lauren Betts, plus Yukon's page. Beckers 82 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: Texas is Madison Booker and Notre Dames Hanna Hidalgo. The 83 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: award will be handed out on April eleventh. Becker's previously 84 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: won in twenty twenty one, becoming the first freshman to 85 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: receive the honor to the NWSL. Gotham FC announced on 86 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: Wednesday that Tyrna Davidson sustained an ACL tear in her 87 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: left knee in last Friday's game against the Houston Dash. 88 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: She's been placed on the season ending injury list. It's 89 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: devastating news to hear, especially since Davidson previously tore her 90 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: right ACL in twenty twenty two, an injury that sidelined 91 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: her for a year and kept her out of contention 92 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty three World Cup. Tyrna posted on 93 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: social in part quote in matching scars out my left 94 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: ACL and quote the beauty of life is its unpredictable nature. 95 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: While I've found myself on the adverse side of this unpredictability, 96 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,559 Speaker 1: at the moment, I know this experience will be another 97 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: colorful chapter of my journey. I have no doubt this 98 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: year will bring me unexpected joys despite this setback, end 99 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: quote typical Tyrna handling things with grace, intelligence and perspective. 100 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 2: We're sending you our best and hoping for a smooth recovery. Tea. 101 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: More injury news, this one in women's basketball. The New 102 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: York Liberty announced that guard Benijel Lany Hamilton had surgery 103 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: in March to repair an acute meniscus injury in her 104 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: left knee. Landey Hamilton played two games in Unrivaled before 105 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: sustaining the injury for the Liberty. She's expected to be 106 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: out for five to six months, which will keep her 107 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: out of most, if not all, of the twenty twenty 108 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: five WNBA season. 109 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: This is a real. 110 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: Bummer for Benijo, who missed six weeks last season to 111 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: a knee injury and also missed time in twenty sixteen 112 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: when she tore her ACL playing for the Chicago Sky. Obviously, 113 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: anytime you play basketball, you're at risk for injury, and 114 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: Unrivaled is no different. Something players certainly have to think 115 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: about when they sign on to playoff season ball. 116 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: More hoops news. 117 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: Longtime coach now Fortner announced on Monday that she's retiring, 118 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: effective immediately. Fortner spent the last six years as head 119 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: coach of Georgia Tech, following stops at Purdue and Auburn. 120 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: Fortner also previously served as the Indiana Fevers head coach 121 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: from two thousand and one till two thousand and three. 122 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: She also led Team USA to a gold medal at 123 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: the two thousand Sydney Olympics. In a statement, Fortner said 124 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't an easy decision to step away. Quote Georgia 125 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: Tech is a gold mine as an institution and an 126 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: athletics department, and is well position to compete for acc 127 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: and national championships in women's basketball. That makes it very 128 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: hard to step away. But for me, after spending much 129 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: of the last thirty plus years on the sideline, I 130 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: just feel. 131 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 2: That it's time end. 132 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 3: Quote. 133 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: Finally, we're sending congratulations to Alex Morgan and her husband 134 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: Servando Carrasco on the birth of their baby boy, Enzo. 135 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: Morgan announced her pregnancy and retirement from professional soccer last 136 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: September and played her final game days later. Too early 137 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: to get that kid in some cleats, speaking of actually 138 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: has their daughter Charlie been signed by an NWSL club yet? 139 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break when we come back. 140 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: Hall of famers, Tara Vanderveer and Muffett McGraw. Welcome back 141 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain, 142 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada and SCUV. 143 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: That's luxurious and tough. 144 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: Speaking a tough, Let's get to my conversation with two 145 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 1: of the toughest coaches in women's college basketball history, Muffett 146 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: McGraw and Tara Vanderveer. 147 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: Joining us now. 148 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: She was the head women's basketball coach at Stanford from 149 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five until her retirement in twenty twenty four. 150 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year and eighteen 151 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: time Pack twelve Coach of the Year, she led the 152 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: Cardinal to fourteen final fours and three NCAA Championship wins 153 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: in ninety, ninety two and twenty twenty one. She's one 154 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: of only nine NCAA women's basketball coaches to win over 155 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: nine hundred games, one of ten NCAA Division One coaches 156 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: women or men to win a thousand games. Her twelve 157 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: hundred and sixteen wins make her the second winning as 158 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: head coach and men's or women's college basketball history, behind 159 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: only Gino Oriama, Who's snuck by this year. She coached 160 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: Team USA to a gold medal at the ninety six 161 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: Olympics and was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of 162 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: Fame in O two and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of 163 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: Fame in twenty eleven. The court at Stanford's Maples Pavilion 164 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: was named in her honor. 165 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: It's Tara Vanderveer. 166 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Tara, my pleasure, Shara joining us again. 167 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: She's a basketball analyst for ESPN and the ACC Network 168 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: and was the head women's basketball coach at Notre Dame 169 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty seven until her retirement in twenty twenty. 170 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year, she led 171 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: her team to nine Final four, seven championship game appearances 172 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: and two national Championship wins in twenty one and twenty eighteen. 173 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: She was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame 174 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: in twenty eleven and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of Fame 175 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. She's the first female coach at Notre 176 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: Dame to have a statue in her honor. 177 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 2: It's Muffett McGraw. Welcome back, Muffett thiks. 178 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 4: Sarah, those numbers kind of pale in comparison to one 179 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 4: Tara Vanderverer. 180 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: They are both far too long for me to say 181 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: the full bio. I had to do a lot of 182 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: editing to just get to the very best up. I 183 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: am so excited to have you both here. I am 184 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: so excited to talk about your memories from your tournament battles, 185 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: how we can get more women into college coaching, and 186 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: so much more. But I want to start with those 187 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: meetings in March, because I think it's so rare and 188 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: unique to have two Hall of Fame incredible coaches on 189 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: to share what their perspective was during those meetings, And 190 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: I want to start with the first one. Twenty fourteen, 191 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen season Sweet sixteen matchup. Muffett, your Notre Dame 192 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: team was thirty six and three overall, fifteen and one 193 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: in the ACC, won the ACC Tournament, Jewel Lloyd, Brionna Turner, 194 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: Lindsay Allen, Tara your Stanford team twenty six and ten 195 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: overall thirteen and five, and PAC twelve play winners of 196 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: the PAC twelve Tournament, Amber Orange, Lily Thompson, Bonnie Samuelson, 197 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: Kaylee Johnson leading the way on that roster. Notre Dame 198 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: is a number one seed. They win over number four 199 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: Stanford eighty one to sixty. Muffett, what do you remember 200 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: about that game plan? 201 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 4: You know, I love playing against Tar because she is 202 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 4: just such a terrific strategist in the game. And I 203 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 4: don't remember exactly what our game plan was. When you 204 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 4: have players like Jewel Lloyd, you expected they're going to 205 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 4: just step up and play really well. I know she's 206 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 4: really far to guard, but Lindsay Allen came out was 207 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 4: a fantastic game that night also, so Lindsay and Jewel. 208 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 4: You know, Tar, you gotta win with guards in the 209 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 4: NCAA tournament, and I had some pretty good guards that year. 210 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jewelloyd seventeen of her twenty one points in the 211 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: second half of that game. Do you remember being on 212 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: the sideline and trying different things to stop her or 213 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: figuring out how you could try to make somebody else 214 00:09:59,040 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: beat you down the stretch? 215 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: I can. I can picture some of the misery of 216 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: that game. But they were just that good. They were 217 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: They were just that good. And you know, Joe Lloyd, 218 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: it wouldn't matter who you were putting honor, and you know, 219 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: our team was you know, I think that our team 220 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: was still a young team at that point and we 221 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: were It's kind of weird that we were in Notre 222 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: Dame's bracket like so many times, yeah, in the beginning 223 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 3: of my career, but way at the end and uh 224 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: they again, Muffett does a great job with their team. 225 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 3: They had really talented team, and you know, there there 226 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: was just no beating him that year. 227 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: Muffett. 228 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: You mentioned Tara being a great strategist. When you're entering 229 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: a game against a coach that you've had a good 230 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: look at, they've been at it for a while, even 231 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: if you haven't faced each other in the tournament before, 232 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: do you try to get ahead of what you think 233 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna do. Usually this is what Tara does here, 234 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: or usually this is how they counteract here. Does it 235 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: make it any easier to have some proof of concept 236 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: from a coach? 237 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 4: You know, I think coaches like Tara they change things frequently. 238 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 4: I think there's some coaches out there like, we're a 239 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 4: Manda man team and we're only gonna do this and 240 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 4: this is what we do on offense. I think with 241 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: Tara is like I want to win, and here's how 242 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 4: best to guard the seams, so you get a good 243 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 4: look at how you should be guarded. And I wish 244 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: we've played earlier in the years so I could learn, 245 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 4: you know, throughout the year, like I got to fix 246 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 4: all these things instead of waiting for the NCAA tournament. 247 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 4: But just you never really knew exactly what to expect. 248 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 4: But you just knew that they were gonna be a 249 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 4: great rebounding team, they were going to be a great 250 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 4: defensive team. And we've run a lot of the same 251 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 4: stuff on offense, you know, variations of the Princeton offense, 252 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 4: so a lot of similarities. 253 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: Tara, you mentioned you had a young team that year. 254 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: If you think just looking at the talent matchup that 255 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: your squad doesn't probably match up as well, do you 256 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: try to get more creative, maybe a little gimmicky and 257 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: some things to see if you can change the odds. 258 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think the NCAA tournament's are time to 259 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: try to new things. You got to kind of go 260 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 3: what's been working for for you. You're not gonna You're 261 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 3: not gonna do gimmicky things. You're gonna do what's work, 262 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 3: what works for you, And I would say what we 263 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: would try to do is I will say play scouting, 264 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 3: report defense, So we will you know, look at the numbers. 265 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: You can watch energy, you know, and you have to 266 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: kind of pick your poison. You you know, you have 267 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: to know kind of who to guard and who to guard, 268 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: how you have to double, you know, depending upon their 269 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: inside game. And but when you have the combination of 270 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: great players and great coaching, you're you're up a crick 271 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 3: without a paddle. That was that, That was what was 272 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: in that situation. 273 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: So you meet in the very next season in the 274 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: sweet sixteen again, twenty fifteen sixteen muff. At this time 275 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: your team's thirty three and two overall sixteen and ozer 276 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: one ACC Play winners of the ACC Tournament. This roster 277 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 1: Breonna Turner, Lindsay Allen, Madison Cable, and you add some youngsters. 278 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: In Ari Gay Gumbawalle and Marina maybriy Tar. 279 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: Your Stanford team twenty seven and eight, fourteen and four 280 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: and PAC twelve play. You finished it at tie for third, 281 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: but you got an at large bid to the tournament. 282 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: You're led again by Lilly Bonnie and Kayley, but also 283 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: so Erica McCall. You as a number four seed, upset 284 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: number one Notre Dame ninety to eighty four and lexingting. 285 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: That ends a twenty six game winning streak for the 286 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: Irish Tara. 287 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: What do you remember about that day? 288 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: I probably should have done my homework, and I know 289 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: we're gonna go back through all the game. You know, again, 290 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 3: sometimes you just you have a good game and different 291 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: people step up. And when you're a number four, and 292 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 3: maybe you played a team the last year, I don't 293 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: remember anything specific about that game. 294 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: But let me jog your memory because I can almost 295 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: guess that Muffett might remember these two numbers. Your team 296 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: shot fifty five point nine percent overall and fifty five 297 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: percent from three. You mentioned sometimes you just have a 298 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: good game. That's a pretty good game, Uh, Muffett, What 299 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: do you remember about trying to stop them when they're 300 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: shooting that? 301 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: Well? 302 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 4: You know, I think we had the lead for a 303 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 4: lot of the time during that game, and we just 304 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 4: could not defensively figure out a way to guardment where 305 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 4: we were a zone team back then, we of course 306 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 4: had to go Amanda man I had a couple of 307 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 4: really weak defenders of him, specifically, I don't want to 308 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 4: mention any names we show. We're getting out on this 309 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 4: get out of the three point shooters, and you know, 310 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 4: it came right down to the wire. I think we 311 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: had a shot to win it right at the end. Yeah, 312 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 4: the suck up. 313 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: Blocked well to your point, you actually were down by 314 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: as many as fifteen points, but then you got it 315 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: to a three point game with two minutes left, and 316 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: you really had an opportunity to undo what had been 317 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: a tough game for your team for most of it. 318 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: But then, man, just Erica McCall twenty seven points, tart. 319 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: What's it like to watch someone have their career high 320 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: in a game. 321 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: That's that important? 322 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: You know, what's what's really fun and for someone like 323 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 3: Erica McCall is for her to have a great game 324 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: because she is just a great person. When you have 325 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 3: a player on your team that is so special as 326 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 3: a person, as a teammate, you you know, it's doubly 327 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 3: rewarding as a coach when you see them perform, especially 328 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 3: at a big stage. There could be no one that 329 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 3: is happier or you know, a better teammate than Erica. 330 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: So I was just really thrilled for her, and she 331 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 3: struggled like making the adjustment to college basketball and kind 332 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 3: of find her way. And you know, obviously she had 333 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: a good game that particular game. 334 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: She said that the team was calling themselves party crashers 335 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: beforehand because they knew what a great team Notre Dame 336 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: had Muffett. You'd won twenty seven straight games that had 337 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: been decided in single digits or overtime, hadn't lost a 338 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: single digit margin since twenty twelve. 339 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: That's pretty wild. That's a long stretch to go of 340 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: being clutch. 341 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 4: You know, I wonder why I accepted the invitation to 342 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 4: join this little podcast right now. Oh my gosh, like 343 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 4: bringing up those memories, like I clearly remember the end 344 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 4: of that game, and you know, it's interesting about the 345 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 4: end of that game. We went to a rique Ogu Muwalian. 346 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 4: She was young, she was a young player, and she 347 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 4: was the one I had confidence in to take that 348 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 4: last shot. And you know, we ran and played it. 349 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 4: We'd run quite a few times, and Erica McCall just 350 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 4: made a great plight block in the shot. But it 351 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 4: was it was it was a shame that we had 352 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 4: to play them back to back and then again, you know, 353 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 4: a couple of years later. 354 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: Well, I hate to move on to the next year 355 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: and rub it in some more, but this is really good. 356 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: It's good to talk to very. 357 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: Successful people about times when things didn't work out. We're 358 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: so used to talking about the wins, but you can't 359 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: win every time. The next year, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, 360 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: you meet again, this time in the Elite eight. 361 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: Buffett thirty three and four, fifteen and. 362 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: One in the ACC won the regular season and the 363 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: ACC tournament for the four straight year. You got a 364 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: Rique Marina, Brianna Lindsay and a freshman Jackie Young. Tara's 365 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: Stanford team thirty two and six, fifteen and three in 366 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: the PAC twelve won the PAC twelve tournament. You got McCall, Samuelson, 367 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: Brittany McPhee on that roster. Youngsters Alana Smith and dj 368 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: A Carrington joined the party for that one. Number two 369 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: Stanford wins a nail bier seventy six, seventy five. This 370 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: was number one seed, Notre Dame's first loss, and that 371 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: lead eight with you at the hell Muffet. 372 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: This was a tough one. What stands out to you 373 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: about that one? That one's real type. 374 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've obviously put that one right out of my mind. 375 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 4: We you know, I think we were nine and one 376 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 4: in games to go to the fun of four and yeah, 377 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 4: I really I've forgotten about that one. I've I've tried 378 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 4: to forget about it, and I think I was successful 379 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: in doing so successful. 380 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: Tara might remember that they were down by sixteen points. 381 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: They had an absolutely disastrous second where you did switch 382 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: from zone to man and they were really having trouble scoring. 383 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: But then the Cardinal outscored you twenty four to twelve 384 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: in the third, which set it up to be a 385 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: real game. Brittany McFee had nine in the fourth, twenty 386 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: seven overall. What do you remember about Brittany McFee in 387 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: that one, Tara? 388 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 3: You know what I remember is Erique being a tremendous 389 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: talent and no garter. And you know, I think that 390 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 3: when you have when you're in the locker room at 391 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 3: halftime and you're getting beat like a drum, you know, 392 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: when someone says i'll garter, you know you're just like, okay, 393 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 3: that you respect someone that will give it a try. 394 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 3: And again, I think that it was really unfortunate that 395 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: you have teams that have the equal ability to go 396 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 3: to the final four, and we again end up in 397 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 3: the same bracket, and that game was the one that 398 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: you know, we were down, we got some momentum, we 399 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: started hitting some shots people. You know, I just we 400 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: we ran some a couple of plays here and there. 401 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 3: There's some turnovers and we did we got the momentum 402 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 3: at the end, and we're really fortunate to win the game. 403 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 2: You mentioned halftime. 404 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: Did you sort of throughout your career have a general 405 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: approach to how to rally a team when you're down 406 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: big at the half or was it really dependent on 407 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: which players were in the room and what they better 408 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: responded to. 409 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 3: Well, this particular halftime was we were we were stuck 410 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 3: in the mud. We were we looked awful. I was 411 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 3: going down the hall to the halftime and Erica McCall 412 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 3: went running by and to the coaches are there, and 413 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 3: she goes, we got them right where we want them, 414 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, what the hell game is? She and so. 415 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 3: But but I think that that's where, you know, your 416 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: team leadership really makes a big difference. And I think 417 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 3: it would agree that when you have great team leaders, 418 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 3: you know, they never give up, they work really hard, 419 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 3: and you know, I hope that this not reminiscing necessarily 420 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: about games, but when with Muffett's team, you know, both 421 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: she and I have coach teams that have won national championships. 422 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: It's more like, what what are the things that what 423 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: are the things that you need to win a national championship? 424 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 3: And you know, we didn't win that year. Actually we 425 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 3: were up against South Carolina when we went on to 426 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 3: the final four, we were up against South Carolina and 427 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: Carlie Samilinson got hurt and that big We're up seven, 428 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 3: I think or nine a half time. But you know, 429 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 3: when you're that close, like when you have these teams 430 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: that are this close, little things just have to go right. 431 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 3: You have to keep people healthy. You can't have fouls. 432 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you look this year with Juju 433 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: get hurt. So it's not it's not really what happened 434 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 3: in those games so much, but what you know, how 435 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 3: do you keep like how does how did Muffett like 436 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 3: keep getting your team back to the final four year 437 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: after year and winning and getting the championship game. It's 438 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 3: it's what you're teaching every day. It's the good kids 439 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 3: that you have on your team. It's the leadership on 440 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: your team. And I think those are the things that 441 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 3: are much more important than you know what what we 442 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 3: remember maybe from those regular games. 443 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean clearly it's about the longevity. 444 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: And we've talked on this show before about how do 445 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: you as a coach get your players through the understanding 446 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: that they can do everything right, but it can be 447 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: a missed call, it can be a ball off your 448 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: foot that goes to the other team at the end. 449 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 3: I mean that happened yesterday for LSU right in front 450 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: of Kim's bench. She was going nuts. It was clearly 451 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: off the other team. And you know, but that happens. 452 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: It's basketball, right, There's only so much that's in your control. 453 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: So Muffett, when you're either starting a tournament run with 454 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: the team or maybe in the midst of the really 455 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: tough games, how do you communicate to them to just 456 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: be in charge of what they can be in charge of? 457 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 4: You know, my thing in the tournament was always we're 458 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 4: going to do it exactly the same way we've been 459 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 4: doing it all year long. If you weren't on the 460 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 4: team bus, you didn't travel with us, you weren't traveling 461 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 4: with us in the final four, you weren't eating team 462 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 4: meals with us. Our team was doing exactly the same thing. 463 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 4: So I wanted them to feel like, we've done this before. 464 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: This is how we prepared. There's nothing new, no flashy things. No. 465 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 4: I never let the media in my locker rooms because 466 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: I'm not giving a big huddle of time, you know, 467 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,239 Speaker 4: big cheerleading speech. You know, we're just saying, hey, this 468 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: is what we need to do, kind of based on 469 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 4: facts and knowing your team. You know, I think letting them. 470 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 4: I kind of stayed away from them because I was 471 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 4: usually a wreck. I mean I'm like, I'm thinking of 472 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 4: everything that could go wrong. One thing I did really 473 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 4: well was catastrophized the situation. I mean I could find 474 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 4: something that was going to go wrong at any moment. 475 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 4: So I was like, you guys, go over there. I'm 476 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 4: gonna be over here and worrying. 477 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: I'll see. 478 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 3: I love it. I kind of did this the opposite. 479 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 3: I would say, this is an omen something would happen. 480 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 3: I see, this is a good omen. So if we 481 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 3: had one time we had like our bus broke down, 482 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: you know, and then the next time I told the 483 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 3: bus driver, I said stall the bus, because you know, 484 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 3: when the bus broke down and we did so well, 485 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 3: so looking for good things that you know are are 486 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: this this is our year, this is this. 487 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: Is what we can do it or manufacturing them if 488 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: it's required. I want to get to some bigger picture questions. 489 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: I think you're right, Tara, it's about approach. But there's 490 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: one last meeting I just want to touch on. You 491 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: actually avoided each other for a year. It was a 492 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: good year for Notre Dame. Muffett and company won it 493 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: all in twenty seventeen eighteen. We all remember a rique 494 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: shot that was just one of my favorite favorites of 495 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: all time. 496 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: But then you meet again the next year. 497 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: You had again in the same region area twenty eighteen 498 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: nineteen in the Sweet sixteen. This is your final meeting 499 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: in the tournament, Muffett. Your team's thirty five and four overall, 500 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: fourteen and two in the ACC. You get an at 501 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: large bit because you get second in the tourney. You 502 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: still got Arik Brianna, Marina Jackie and senior Jessica Shepherd 503 00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: steps up. 504 00:22:59,520 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: Tara. 505 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: You we were thirty one and five, fifteen and three 506 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: in the Pac twelve. You won the Pac twelve tournament. 507 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: You got Alana Smith dejon A Keana Williams, Maya Dodson, 508 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: and you got the freshman Hall sisters Lexi and Lacy 509 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: who are now on the team. Number one seed Notre 510 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: Dame gets the win eighty four to sixty eight over 511 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: number two Stanford. 512 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: Do you remember that one? Muffett? 513 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 4: That one I remember. I remember because we played in 514 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 4: Chicago and we had such a great Notre Dame crowd. 515 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 4: It was green everywhere and we had I think it 516 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: was close to a sellout, if not a sellout. That 517 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 4: was an exciting game. I remember because we had some 518 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 4: role players come off the bench and make some big shots. 519 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 4: When I think we were starting to get a little tight, 520 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 4: and I had a player, Abby Prohaska came in. It 521 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 4: just made a great driving layup, but it just sort 522 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 4: of made everybody relax. So I do remember winning that 523 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 4: game in Chicago. 524 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Arique again twenty one points, Jackie Young twenty five points, 525 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: ten rebounds in that one, and then Keanu Williams had 526 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: a great game for stan Ford twenty points in the 527 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: los Djona had eighteen. Notre was ten of thirty nine 528 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: in the first half, but then they went to outscore 529 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: Stanford twenty six thirteen and the third and then ended 530 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: up going on a run late. So another game where 531 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: it's kind of like Tara, your team was in it 532 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: and then that last late run from the from the 533 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: Irish ends up being ends up being the difference. How 534 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: do you strategize down the stretching games of like when 535 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 1: do I let my players figure this out? 536 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: When do I call a time out? 537 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: Are you trying to get it at the beginning of 538 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: when the blood letting starts, or how do you strategize? 539 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 3: Well, in a game like that, you don't want to 540 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 3: let the second half get away from you. But at 541 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: the same time, I don't know if Muffett did this, 542 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 3: but with the ability to advance the ball, you if 543 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 3: you can keep it close, you want to have that, 544 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: you know, a couple of those in your pocket so 545 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 3: that you can advance the ball. So if you know 546 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 3: but you can't, I'm sure I kind of let you know, 547 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 3: took time out, and you know, if you're going to 548 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 3: go down, if you're down fifteen or so, you know, 549 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: no sense in saving them. But you know, if it's 550 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: within a I think five to six point game, then 551 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 3: I'm saving timeouts and hoping that you know, we can 552 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 3: keep it close. And with the ability to advance the ball, 553 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 3: which I think makes women's basketball so exciting. I don't 554 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: know why the men are not playing quarters and advancing it, 555 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 3: but it really you're always in it, you know, you can. 556 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: You can get a lot of possessions with in the 557 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 3: last thirty seconds, with that ability to take a time 558 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 3: out and advance, get a shot, foul, get a shot, 559 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: you know, advance, get a shot foul again. 560 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 4: So I think it's a big decision when you call 561 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 4: those timeouts. And I think when you're watching games now, 562 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: you'll see some runs early in the game and you think, man, 563 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 4: they could have used the time out, but they're trying 564 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 4: to save them. And I think the balance for me 565 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 4: was always young team versus veteran team. You know, veteran 566 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 4: team's gonna be able to figure it out on their own, 567 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 4: but a young team sometimes you just got to use it. 568 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 2: In the first half, we have to take a quick break. 569 00:25:50,680 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: More with Tara and Muffett in a minute. Welcome back 570 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain, 571 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada. Now 572 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: back to my conversation with Muffett McGraw and Tara Vanderveer. 573 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious some longtime college coaches seem to 574 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: have great relationships and others not so much. So I'm wondering, Muffett, 575 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: did you intentionally or maybe even subconsciously coach differently against 576 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: coaches that you didn't like. No, don't pull the starters, 577 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: beat the brakes of them. 578 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 4: I was just selling civil the other day. When we 579 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 4: beat Connecticut in the semi final in twenty eighteen and 580 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 4: went on to win the championship in an exciting game 581 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 4: against Mississippi State, I only ever watched the Connecticut game 582 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 4: again because I just enjoyed those rivalries with Connecticut and 583 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 4: I enjoyed beating them, So when you know, whenever we 584 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 4: did beat them, it was it was always a lot 585 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 4: more fun. But I don't think I don't think I 586 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 4: coached any different. I think, you know, it was it 587 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: was nice to be the underdog sometimes I'm playing Connecticut. 588 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 4: A lot of times we were at the underdog. 589 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Tara, how about you? 590 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 3: You know, I think one of the things that I 591 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 3: think I was really fortunate and I would probably think 592 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 3: of it would say the same, is that you know, 593 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 3: like I grew up, I was at basketball camp with 594 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 3: Muffett at Kathy Rush basketball camp way back in the day. 595 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: So a lot of the coaches that I grew up 596 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 3: playing against were actually my friends. And you know, I 597 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 3: don't know that a lot of coaches can say that 598 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 3: other coaches are their friends now with all that's going 599 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 3: on with the portal and the poaching and you know, 600 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 3: all that kind of thing, and I think that that's 601 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 3: something that's really lacking from the game of basketball, you know, 602 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 3: something that was really special that we you know, we 603 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: would see each other on the road, and you know, 604 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: I don't feel like I didn't ever dislike any of 605 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 3: the coaches, and I never would ever run the score 606 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 3: up because that would risk your own players being hurt. 607 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 3: And I I don't think it's healthy for our game. 608 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 3: You know, if you win by twenty, that's okay. Anything 609 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 3: over thirty to me is rubbing it. And I never 610 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 3: like a thirty point or more for anyone. You know, 611 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: when I see these games that are, you know, forty 612 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,239 Speaker 3: fifty point games, I don't think that's healthy for our 613 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 3: sport or for the young people that are playing. We 614 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 3: want to encourage people. 615 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: To play, so not to mention that's a real opportunity 616 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: to put some people in that you never know because 617 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: of injury or otherwise. Mike need later in the season 618 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: and need to have been in a game against some 619 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: top competition and some some other teams. 620 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 4: Hey, I want to make a side note. 621 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: I liked you know. 622 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was just fun to beat them. 623 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: I didn't assume it meant you didn't like him, but 624 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: I understood that there was a rivalry there, and it 625 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: define to beat the top dog. 626 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: Did you guys have a bet on Philly cheese steaks 627 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 3: or something there, you know, Philadelphia? 628 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, we should have. I mean, we know how to 629 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 4: talk to each other. 630 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: Philly. 631 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 4: They have their own language, so we never got upset 632 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 4: with each other. 633 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Is Philly the one that always says Yin's Or 634 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: is that Pittsburgh? 635 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: That's Pittsburgh. 636 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 4: That's Pittsburgh. Yeah, we're like you guys. 637 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to hear more about playing together at 638 00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: Camp Muffett. 639 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: What do you remember about that? 640 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, yeah I remember that was I was 641 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 4: still coaching high school and then an assistant at Saint Joe's, 642 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 4: so Tar was, Uh, she was a head coach at 643 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 4: that time, and I was just thinking Wow. She came 644 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 4: a long way to go to this camp and it 645 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: was a coaching camp. It was a no but we 646 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 4: would have staff games. You know, we play after the 647 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 4: kids were done and you know, you already worked like 648 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 4: a twelve hour day and then you're like, man, let's 649 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 4: get the games going. You know this it was just 650 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 4: so fun. 651 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: The games were outside on like you know, hardcourt, Like yeah, 652 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 3: you know, it was hot and it was hot. I 653 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: remember like one time it was so hot we had 654 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 3: to take kids into the pool so they didn't, you know, 655 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 3: have exhaustion. And I mean it was it was fun, 656 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: but it was work and I was you know, there 657 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: were times I think before I met Muffett though, I 658 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: was I was roommates with like Debbie Ryan or Mary 659 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: and Stanley, and I'm a little bit I'm older than Muffett, 660 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: but you know, she would she she was a great 661 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: player when she played. Was your teammate at Saint Joe's. 662 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 3: It came to camp too. Do you remember there was 663 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 3: there was a you kind of were not you were 664 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: kind of the same build. 665 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, Mary Sue Gerty was one. 666 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 667 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys were teared up in the pickup. 668 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 2: Games, you know, Oh, that sounds like fun games. 669 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 3: With Carol blas Showski. I mean there were some I'm 670 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: telling you, there's some hoopers that were playing in these games. 671 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: It was fun. 672 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I missed just playing 673 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: basketball all day, Like it didn't matter if it was 674 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: outside the asphalt or if you had like an aau 675 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: and you had four games in the same day in 676 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: a gym with no ac and your body still worked, 677 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: and you could do it all day long. 678 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: Like what a dream that was. 679 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 3: I don't know that. I don't know that young players 680 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 3: loved the game in the way that I feel like 681 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: I love the game. I mean I was crazy about 682 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 3: playing all the time. I didn't have I didn't have 683 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 3: nil of course, I didn't have a scholarship. I bought 684 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: my own shoes, you know. I mean it was just 685 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 3: but going to the gym and playing pick up or 686 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 3: like at camp at camp, at our Stanford camp, we 687 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 3: had three courts going and we played to midnight and 688 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 3: winners got the middle court, you know, and it was 689 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: a big deal and you were playing with all the 690 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 3: staff people. It was fun. And I don't know that 691 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 3: young players, what do you think, MOFE. Do they enjoy 692 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 3: playing as much as we did. 693 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 4: You know, I don't even think they care if they 694 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 4: win in AU. I don't think they shouldn't even bother 695 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 4: keeping score. 696 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder there's a couple of reasons for that. 697 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: I wouldn't. 698 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: It's always hard to make generalizations about everybody, But I 699 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: do think number one, when you insert the nil and 700 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: the money and the stress and the pressure, it's great 701 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: in the sense of helping professionalize and offer opportunity, but 702 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: it's also hard because it does make it about that sometimes, 703 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: or there is this added pressure of if I don't 704 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: get this while I get this deal, or that kind 705 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: of thing. But I also think I wonder about generationally 706 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: what it meant to be allowed to play sport, to 707 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 1: be embodied, to be free out on a court in 708 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: the seventies. 709 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: And eighties versus now. 710 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: Right, there's an entitlement to it now, fifty plus years 711 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: after Title nine. Of like, of course playing basketball, But 712 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: I wonder if when you guys were growing up, it 713 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: felt more like against the rules or this this is 714 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: my identity because it's something I care so much about 715 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: that not all other girls and women do. 716 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 3: Well. 717 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 4: There were definitely stereotypes I mean it was always me 718 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 4: and nine guys down at the playground. Yeah, I mean 719 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 4: I was always the only girl, and I think that 720 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 4: really served me well for the future to break into 721 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 4: this men's world of sports. And I think that there 722 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 4: was a lot of things said. We were called tomboys, 723 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 4: you know, there was like name calling, and it just 724 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 4: it just wasn't socially acceptable at the time. So we did. 725 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 4: We fought a lot of areas. Title line had just 726 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 4: been announced, but it wasn't really put into effect yet. 727 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 4: I mean, we were pretty lucky. We had a team. 728 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 4: My team is Saint Joe's first team ever because of 729 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 4: Title nine and you know tours, right, We bought our 730 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 4: own shoes. We didn't have we don't have practice clothes, 731 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 4: you know, we drove ourselves to games. There was a 732 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 4: lot of things that we had to do for ourselves 733 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 4: back then that these kids now, you know, you just 734 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 4: want to say, you have no idea, how good you 735 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 4: have it? 736 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, although sometimes that for whatever reason, that 737 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: self determination kind of pushes you to care more about 738 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: something than when it's either handed to you or someone 739 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: else wants you to do it, which is maybe more 740 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: the case now with so many people set to benefit 741 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: from girls that are at great at basketball. You know, Muffett, 742 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned it helped you sort of in this industry. 743 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: Last time you were on, we played your now pretty 744 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: infamous speech about the importance of hiring women assistants. You 745 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: started exclusively having female assistant coaches in twenty twelve, Tara, 746 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: and you're twenty sorry, thirty nine years at Stanford. You 747 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: never once had a male assistant coach in your couple 748 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: stops before Stanford. Even then you hired just one. And 749 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: I would love to hear what both of you would 750 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,239 Speaker 1: do first if you were put in charge tomorrow of 751 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: increasing the number of female coaches in college basketball, Like, 752 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: what would be your very first move tar that you 753 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: think would help address that? 754 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 3: Well? I think that, you know, giving women the opportunity 755 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 3: I always encourage them to like work at basketball camps, 756 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: to volunteer, to you know, not feel like you you know, 757 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: there's a lot of opportunities now because you're you can 758 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 3: have what total of six people on your staff, and 759 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 3: there's there's a lot of opportunities to hire women and 760 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 3: if there's someone that and to really outwork people. I'll 761 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: just tell you a quick story my sister, Heidi, who 762 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 3: is ten years younger than me, wanted to go into coaching, 763 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 3: and I said, Heidi, the best thing to do is 764 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: to get trained somewhere. And so I said, you can 765 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 3: go three places. You can come to Ohio state where 766 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 3: I am, but I will tell you everything I know. Anyway, 767 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 3: don't do that. So you have two choices. You can 768 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: go to Tennessee with Pat Summit, or you can go 769 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 3: to Texas with Jody Conrad, because those were the top 770 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 3: women at the time, you know, coaching. And I said, 771 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 3: I'll pay for your graduate school. I said, but I 772 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 3: have one rule. You have to be the first one 773 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,479 Speaker 3: in the office and the last one to leave every day. 774 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 3: So she went to Tennessee and within one week she 775 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 3: called me and she said, I have a full graduate 776 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 3: assistant position. I said, how'd you get that? Because I 777 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:53,959 Speaker 3: was the first one in the office and the last 778 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 3: one to leave. So women can't be They have to be, 779 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 3: you know, really motivated, hard working, but we have to 780 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 3: give them opportunities. And when we look at coaching, you know, 781 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 3: in when back when I was first playing, most of 782 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,879 Speaker 3: the jobs, ninety percent of the jobs were women because 783 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 3: there was no money and as soon as money came 784 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 3: into it in prestige. Then now half the jobs in 785 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 3: women's basketball are men, whereas all the jobs in men's 786 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 3: basketball are men. So you know, seventy five percent of 787 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 3: the jobs are going to men and we need to 788 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 3: balance it out. And honestly, I think a staff of 789 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: both men and women is ideal, but men won't hire women. 790 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, I've got to hire women and 791 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 3: give them the opportunity. 792 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: As the older I get, and I've said this before, 793 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: the more I feel like overcorrection is necessary. If we've 794 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: given the world a million opportunities to help with the 795 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: equity and equality equation and it's not been fixed by 796 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: the men in charge, then the women in charge have 797 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: to overcorrect. And to your point, I think, yeah, if 798 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: you're not included in men's basketball, then you sort of 799 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: have a responsibility to have women in women's basketball. 800 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: Muffett, what's your take on it? 801 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: I think if you had if someone said tomorrow, your 802 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: new job is helping fix this problem, where do you start? 803 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 4: You know, I think there's there's two parts in that. 804 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 4: One is the athletic director is mostly white men. They're 805 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 4: still doing the hiring and they're hiring a lot of men, 806 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 4: and I think that one of the reasons is the 807 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 4: way women interview and the way they apply for jobs. 808 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 4: I think we need to be better at being more 809 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 4: aggressive going after the job and women talk with we 810 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 4: you know, well, here's what we did, my staff did this. 811 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 4: When you compliment a woman, it's always like, well, everybody 812 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 4: did their job, and we all, you know, put together, 813 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 4: and men are like, here's what I did, and here's 814 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 4: what I can do. And you know, some of the 815 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 4: guys that left my staff, I would think, I thought 816 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 4: I did a lot of those things, but apparently you 817 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 4: did all of those because that's what your resume reflects. 818 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 4: So I think that we need to teach women. First 819 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 4: of all, we need the network better, We need to 820 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 4: put ourselves out there. We need to be able to 821 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 4: take hearing no. Guys don't care if they hear no. 822 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 4: They make up any excuse, Well they were looking for 823 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: this and that, and I didn't have that. But women 824 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 4: we take it personally and we're really loyal, like we 825 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 4: like to stay where we are, and I think that's 826 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 4: a part of the punk. We have our networks, we 827 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 4: have our help with our families and all those other things, 828 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 4: But I think a lot of it is still if 829 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 4: a woman fails, the ad is thinking I got to 830 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 4: hire a guy because it didn't work with every. 831 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: Woman, right, and that seems to be the case in 832 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: so many places. It happens also with coaches of color. 833 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: Often the gender or the races to be blamed and 834 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 1: then everybody from that category is out and we're back 835 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: to white menigan because they never reflect on each other. 836 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 3: You know, I want to thank Muffett for contributing to 837 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 3: the Women's Sports Foundation has a legacy fund. It is 838 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: in my name, Yeah, but it's really for all women 839 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 3: to develop women, to develop a pipeline of women where 840 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 3: they're you know, given modest scholarship and through the Women's 841 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 3: Sports Foundation, they can then work at a university that 842 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 3: might not have the money to pay for another staff person. 843 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 3: And I also think that you know, both Muffett and 844 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 3: I have worked really hard at mentoring young women to 845 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 3: get them ready for head positions. And if you look 846 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 3: at the success of you know, the coach at Notre 847 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 3: Dame now Ne l Ivy, was a assistant and she 848 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 3: has other assistants that are doing extremely well throughout the country. 849 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 3: So that's what we're doing you know, it's not we're 850 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 3: we're not sitting back complaining about the fact that no, no, 851 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 3: but we're doing something about it. And I'm really proud 852 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 3: of the coaching tree that I have too, most proud 853 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 3: of my sister. You know that it's done so well, 854 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 3: but you know so it's mentoring and it's also supporting 855 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 3: organizations that support women. 856 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, completely agree. 857 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen is when you launched the Tara Vander of 858 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: Your Fund for the Advancement of Women in Coaching with 859 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: the Women's Sports Foundation, And to my question, that might 860 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: have been your first step. You weren't assigned the task, 861 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: but you took it anyway to help fund and create 862 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: that pipeline, which is just so important. And of course 863 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: the staffs that you have led throughout both of your 864 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: careers are a huge part of helping fix that problem 865 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: as well. 866 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 2: You mentioned your sister Tar. 867 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: I want to ask you quickly the emotions of watching 868 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: her coach. You see San Diego in its first ever 869 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: NCAA tournament appearance, where there are a lot of phone 870 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: calls of advice or did you say, hands off, she's 871 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: got this. 872 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 3: No, you know, she watched our team. She she was 873 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 3: at all those noted Dame games that we talked about, 874 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 3: you know, but you know, I will tell you it 875 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 3: was like a root canal watching and cheering was miserable. 876 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 3: But I was so proud of Heidi. This is the 877 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 3: first year that they were able to go to the 878 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 3: NCAA tournament, and they qualified and they won their turn, 879 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: their Big West tournament and both she and their men's 880 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 3: team went. And you know, do you have to take 881 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 3: baby steps? 882 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? 883 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 3: I also I think Muff and I both would you know, 884 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 3: we'd look at a bracket. We're always looking at number one, 885 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 3: number two, number three, no four. You know, it's like 886 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 3: who even pays attention to, you know, the sixteen seeds, 887 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 3: and there's Heidi. And I'm like, I was so excited 888 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 3: for her when her name came up. You know, their 889 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 3: school came up, even they had to play, they played 890 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 3: a play in game, but it was it was just 891 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 3: so exciting for her and for us to really under 892 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 3: you know, for the young people that get to go 893 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 3: to the tournament is something really. 894 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 2: Special for sure. So Root Canal watching your sister. 895 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: What about the emotions watching Stanford miss the tournament after 896 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: thirty six straight seasons in the dance. 897 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 3: Well, you know it's uh. I thought, I thought Kate 898 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 3: did a fabulous job this year. And you know, the 899 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 3: the talent was not there. They had an injury for 900 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 3: a player that missed eight games, they had another player 901 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 3: there's out. But she has done Kate has done a 902 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 3: fabulous job, you know, not just coaching but recruiting. And 903 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 3: you know, I think Stanford we're going through a difficult 904 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 3: time with getting a new athletic director, but it will 905 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 3: We'll be back very soon. And I think it's the 906 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 3: team played hard, the team. The team is a very 907 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 3: well coached team, but we need to be bigger and 908 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 3: more athletic and more experienced. So good good days are ahead. 909 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: I think also anytime a legend leaves, there's an inevitability 910 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: that there might be some feeling of like, oh, I 911 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: don't know that I want to be a part of 912 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 1: this new regime or this this restarting of this program 913 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: after for this, you know, incredible success, so that's. 914 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: To be expected. I'll give them some time. 915 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 3: I try I give both. I mean to follow Muffett, 916 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 3: you know, coach is you know that's a tough that's 917 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 3: a very tough situation. I think Kate, but I think 918 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 3: they're They're very capable. And these are different times too, 919 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 3: you know, all the portal, all the money rev sharing, uh, 920 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 3: you know, collective money. This is a different time. And honestly, 921 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 3: I I am so thankful for the time that I 922 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 3: had as a coach, working with the players I worked with, 923 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 3: working you know, on the sideline against people like Muffett 924 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 3: and Gino and Pat. I have to pinch myself. 925 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: I've had a magical run coach. It sounds like, and 926 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but it's interesting. 927 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of the good old days kind 928 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: of feeling about the days before the ni L and 929 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: the transfer portal, and in so many ways the game 930 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: is evolving in positive ways. For young women to be paid, 931 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: to have opportunity to have a bunch of pro spaces 932 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 1: of WNBA unrivaled and not just overseas, and all these things. 933 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 2: But it does change the game. 934 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,280 Speaker 1: Is there a bittersweet sort of appreciation of the evolution. 935 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. 936 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 4: I mean, I really agree they should make some money. 937 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 4: I'm all for that. I think they should have to 938 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 4: do something to make the money. I don't think somebody 939 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 4: should just give it to them. I really hate that 940 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,439 Speaker 4: they get paid to do community service, which I think 941 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 4: is kind of an oxymoron. You're supposed to be doing 942 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 4: community service for a lot of reasons. I think we're 943 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 4: missing the life skills that we used to teach them about, 944 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 4: all the things that they had to learn, the discipline, 945 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 4: the perseverance. You're maybe not going to start, You're maybe 946 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 4: not going to play a lot as a freshmen. You've 947 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 4: got to earn your way, and kids aren't willing to 948 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 4: do that anymore. I think the combination transfer portal with 949 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 4: the NIL when kids will just call and say, I 950 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 4: want to transfer. How much you given me? That's the 951 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 4: first question they ask. You know, what about you know, 952 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 4: how does it fit? 953 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 2: You know? 954 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 4: What about Notre Dame? What about the education? You know, 955 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 4: we've totally lost the education because you're going to three 956 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 4: and four schools. I mean, there's there's just nothing. And 957 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 4: I just think it's really hurting them. I think it's 958 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 4: hurting them for their future. Such a small percentage make 959 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 4: it in the w What are they going to do 960 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 4: when their phone's not going to ring and somebody's not 961 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,440 Speaker 4: going to say, here's one hundred thousand dollars to do 962 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 4: absolutely nothing. They have to make their way in the world, 963 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 4: and we're not preparing them to do that. 964 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 3: I agree one hundred percent and that I do think 965 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 3: that players should have the opportunity. You know, we go 966 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 3: from one extreme where ten years ago you couldn't give 967 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 3: a kid an apple unless you cut it up, and 968 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 3: now you're talking about you know, but when you have 969 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 3: when you have pro basketball, you have guardrails, and we 970 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 3: don't have guardrails. Right now, we don't have guardrails. The 971 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 3: horse is out of the barn and there's no fence 972 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 3: that's run a while. Yes, nil is a good thing. Yes, 973 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 3: pro opportunities are great things. I think I've transferred. I 974 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 3: think transferring is you know, they should have the option 975 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 3: to do that. But when you combine basically tampering, which 976 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,320 Speaker 3: we have going on, and that's not allowed in the pros. 977 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 3: We don't have a salary cap, I think we're in 978 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 3: some quick stand with things. And as Muffett has I 979 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 3: think very astutely pointed out, this is not healthy for 980 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,720 Speaker 3: young people to be living in this la la land 981 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 3: of you know, they're delusional about their abilities and you know, 982 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 3: like you said, doing getting paid for community service that's 983 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 3: an oxymoron. 984 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 985 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're in this really interesting space of like appreciating 986 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: the things that we've always wanted and asked for, but 987 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: also understanding that some of the joy and the positives 988 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: that we saw in women's sports as opposed to men's 989 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: used to be playing for love of the game, not 990 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: getting caught up in the under the table dealings, like 991 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: all the stuff that comes when you infuse something with money, 992 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: it becomes just another part of a larger capitalist system. 993 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's a constant check into how 994 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: do we get what the players deserve, and also not 995 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: ruin what was at the heart of it and what 996 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: made it so great. I know you all have to go, 997 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 1: so I have one last question for you. We always 998 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,959 Speaker 1: ask people what advice they would give their younger self, 999 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,800 Speaker 1: But I feel like the words we tell our younger 1000 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: self often don't mean much or wouldn't mean much to 1001 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 1: that younger person. They don't have the wisdom and the 1002 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: experience or the context to get it yet. 1003 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: So instead I want to ask something you wish you. 1004 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,800 Speaker 1: Already knew and understood in your twenties about life or 1005 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: about yourself. 1006 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 4: I wish I would have had more confidence. I don't 1007 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,400 Speaker 4: think like most women. I think we all struggle with 1008 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 4: confidence at one time or another, and just that believing 1009 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 4: in yourself and doing what you know is right and 1010 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 4: realizing that people are going to criticize you no matter 1011 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 4: what you do, so you might as well feel good 1012 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 4: about what you do. Take a chance, you know, take 1013 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 4: a chance and go after what you want. I was 1014 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,240 Speaker 4: really reluctant to do that for most of my young life. 1015 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 3: How about you, Tara, I think that you know, I 1016 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 3: guess if I were to, if I were to were 1017 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 3: able to go back to my twenty five year old self, 1018 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 3: I think I would probably take better care of myself. 1019 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 3: I would, you know. I was so crazy about working, 1020 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,800 Speaker 3: and you know, whether it was recruiting or watching video 1021 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 3: I think I would have done more things for myself younger, 1022 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 3: and as I got older I figured it out. I 1023 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 3: just like I needed, you know, time to go to 1024 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 3: go to the lake, you know, but to work out, 1025 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,720 Speaker 3: to eat eat right and not sacrifice, you know, just 1026 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 3: just realize it that your life is your life is 1027 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 3: not a dress rehearsal and every single day, you know, 1028 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 3: and not be I was a little bit, I think, 1029 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 3: very one dimensional and just like it was all about work. Yeah, 1030 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 3: I would have. I would have had more. 1031 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: Fun, more fun, more risks. All right, listen up, twenty somethings, 1032 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: more fun, more risks. Also, the patriarchy is a fucking trap. 1033 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: Learn it now. Don't work to appease men, don't align 1034 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: with men in power. Be the woman in power, and 1035 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: bring other women with you. That's what I would tell 1036 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: myself is learn way earlier how much of society's messaging 1037 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: to women is bullshit, and just start deciding that I 1038 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: don't have to play any of their rules. 1039 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 3: That's Sarah, Well, Sarah, what else you know? Let it 1040 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 3: all out there. 1041 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 2: I just know I waited until the end. I kept 1042 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 2: it classy until I showed her myself. 1043 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 3: Tar. 1044 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 2: We don't know each other very well, you know, all right. 1045 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah. I just want to just say it's 1046 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 3: an honor to be on a panel with Muffett and Muffett, 1047 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 3: it's great to see you, and yeah, you do. You 1048 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 3: do a tremendous job on television. I think that they 1049 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,959 Speaker 3: ought to have more coaches talking about the game because 1050 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,240 Speaker 3: you know what you're talking about. But thank you, appreciates 1051 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 3: a great job, and Sarah, thank you for including me. 1052 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for coming on. This was 1053 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: such a fun, fun time. Thank you so much Tatar 1054 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: and Muffett for taking the time. We got to take 1055 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: another break stick around. Welcome back, slaicays. We love that 1056 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: you're listening, but we want to get you in the 1057 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: game every day too. So here's our good game play 1058 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,439 Speaker 1: of the day, y'all. Don't wait to take a big swing. 1059 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: Don't be so afraid of failing that you don't even try. 1060 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,320 Speaker 1: Don't be so risk averse that you never take a chance. 1061 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: If you've been waiting for a sign, this is it. 1062 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm talking to you and to me. I think we 1063 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,919 Speaker 1: got to meet this weird, awful, scary moment with more 1064 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: bravery and self assuredness and audacity than we thought we 1065 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 1: had in us. Tara and Muffett said, so, so let's 1066 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 1: do it. We'd love to hear from you. Hit us 1067 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or 1068 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh 1069 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: four fifty seventy. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, y'all. 1070 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: I tell you every day. 1071 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,240 Speaker 2: Have you done it? Have you subscribed? Have you rated 1072 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 2: have you given us five stars and given us a 1073 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,280 Speaker 2: nice review? It's really easy. 1074 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 1: Watch tag Notataro's audition to join our team review five 1075 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: out of five you got the job rating. Tag Noataro 1076 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: was the hilarious host of the fifth annual Ambi's Awards 1077 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: here in Chicago, and Good Game was nominated for Best 1078 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: Sports Podcast. 1079 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 2: Now we did not win. We lost to a curling 1080 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 2: show mm hmm, show about a broom. 1081 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: But we are not bitter. We're happy for them. As 1082 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: friend and fellow loser in her category. Pablo Torre said, 1083 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: I'm just glad Canada felt appreciated somewhere in this country. 1084 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: And as they say, honestly, just an honor to be nominated. 1085 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,560 Speaker 1: And it was also an honor to be in the 1086 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,879 Speaker 1: same room as Tig, one of my faves, especially when 1087 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: she perfectly nailed the behind the scenes production speak of 1088 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: every single podcast ever made. 1089 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,720 Speaker 5: Now, before we get started, I need to do some housekeeping. 1090 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,439 Speaker 5: First off, you'll all need your own headphones, so there's 1091 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 5: no feedback tonight, and we are recording on our end. 1092 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 5: But if you could all just use your voice memos 1093 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:06,399 Speaker 5: yes for backup, we'd really appreciate it. And lastly, let's 1094 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 5: all hold for ten seconds for room tone. 1095 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 4: Okay, great, we got that tig. 1096 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 2: You're hired. We'll send you the link to join the 1097 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,120 Speaker 2: next recording. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and. 1098 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: Review, Thanks for listening, and thanks again to Nissan and 1099 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,400 Speaker 1: the all new Nissan Armada for making this legendary conversation happen. 1100 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 2: We'll talk to you tomorrow. 1101 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,400 Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports 1102 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You 1103 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,520 Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1104 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, 1105 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive 1106 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,760 Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. 1107 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martin Knez, and Grace Lynch. 1108 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,280 Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm your host, 1109 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:05,200 Speaker 1: Sarah Spain