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Speaker 1: If the Astros think they didn't get if Astros fans

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Speaker 1: are out there thinking they didn't get much in this prey.

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Speaker 1: This is a hal for a rental. Welcome into north

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Speaker 1: Side Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma

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Speaker 1: with my partner Patrick Mooney. Patrick. It is our technically

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Speaker 1: our fourth podcast of the week, the Lost Podcast podcast

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Speaker 1: after that, and now an emergency podcast because Kyle Tucker

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Speaker 1: is a Cub. It happened. This is not Jake Peee,

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Speaker 1: This is not Brian Roberts. This is arguably the biggest

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Speaker 1: probably like maybe it's not even arguably. It's the biggest

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Speaker 1: move Jed Hoyer has made. That's not sending away the

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Speaker 1: main piece, right, biggest acquisition he's made. I think I

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Speaker 1: think that's fair to say. Maybe I don't think I'm

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Speaker 1: missing something here, but a monster deal, one that you know,

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Speaker 1: completely changes the lineup, completely changes the way we view

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Speaker 1: this offseason. I think it's you know, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about what they gave up in a little bit,

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Speaker 1: all of you stressing about that. Look, to get impact talent,

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Speaker 1: you have to give up talent. This is this is

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Speaker 1: a bold move it's aggressive. It is what we need

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Speaker 1: to see from this front office. They needed to start

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Speaker 1: acting like there was a sense of urgency and that

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Speaker 1: they you know, that they weren't just looking to improve

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Speaker 1: along the margins and satisfied with the eighty three eighty

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Speaker 1: four wins. This is pushing in. Well, we can talk

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Speaker 1: about what happens beyond twenty twenty five, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: I don't you know. I get it. I get the handring,

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Speaker 1: and I get when you listen to them talk they

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Speaker 1: talk about beyond one season. But my guess is that

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Speaker 1: they have a plan in place and that they also

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Speaker 1: understand that it's time to win.

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Speaker 2: No doubt. I mean, this is a signature move for

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Speaker 2: Jed Hoyer, one that may ultimately define his tenure here.

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Speaker 2: Certainly the type of all in move we have not

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Speaker 2: seen in quite some time. Just you're talking about one

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Speaker 2: of the best hitters in baseball, the truly elite talent

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Speaker 2: that this roster has lacked. And you know, we spend

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Speaker 2: way too much time on social media. We read the

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Speaker 2: comments sections, We talk to friends, family, you know, people

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Speaker 2: we bump into at the winter meetings, at the grocery store,

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Speaker 2: wherever it is. It was like, what are the Cubs doing?

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Speaker 2: And finally, this is an affirmative answer of like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're going for it. They're trying to win, and I'd

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Speaker 2: imagine that this can't be the end of it. This

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Speaker 2: is not going to be higher Craig Council and then

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Speaker 2: basically run the same team back. I don't think it

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Speaker 2: means handing, you know, Tom Ricketts atm password over to

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Speaker 2: Scott Boris, but I do think there's going to be

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Speaker 2: more moves. Cody Bellinger is going to get traded.

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Speaker 1: Right they have to. Why don't we get to what's next? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Cody Bellinger, that's probably next. I mean, would

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Speaker 1: you be surprised by that? I don't think so. If

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Speaker 1: it happens soon, that makes a lot of sense. I

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Speaker 1: think Cody Bellinger is preparing to be traded. The Cubs

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Speaker 1: haven't really hidden that all that much. I guess my

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Speaker 1: biggest question is what the return is and if it

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Speaker 1: definitely is the Yankees that he'll be headed to. Beyond that,

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Speaker 1: my question, like a big question I have is who

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Speaker 1: plays third base? You know, it was pointed out to me.

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Speaker 1: It was like someone reminded me after the piece we

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Speaker 1: wrote kind of talk touching on Matt Shaw that hey,

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Speaker 1: they also get a draft pick if he's the rookie

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Speaker 1: of the year and starts the season on the team. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that that could be incentive to at least start him

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Speaker 1: on the team. I think, just shooting out some texts today,

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Speaker 1: I was told at minimum is like, you know, who

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Speaker 1: knows what happens the rest of the winter. But but

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Speaker 1: it would have to be a competition. Nobody's handing a

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Speaker 1: job to Matt Shaw right now. I think that's I

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Speaker 1: think that's fair. You can't like you're competing, right, you

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Speaker 1: don't add Kyle Tucker and then say the rest is

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Speaker 1: all rookies or something like that. Right, you gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta make sure you you at least have competition there.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's a you know, that's my main question. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we know there's more coming, right, It's not just gonna

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Speaker 1: be Cody Bellinger traded and and then play the kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do think pitching still has to be addressed.

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Speaker 2: I am very curious about what they do at third base.

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Speaker 2: You had mentioned in one of our pieces on the

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Speaker 2: Athletic like maybe there's a stopgap guy someone were not

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Speaker 2: maybe that's not super obvious or someone that could, you know,

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Speaker 2: play third base in stretches. But like, this is why

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Speaker 2: you build up the farm system that you have not

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Speaker 2: only a trade piece in cam Smith, but you also

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Speaker 2: have a guy like Matt Shaw who can be in

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Speaker 2: the conversation here and you know, look at the pitching side.

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Speaker 2: I know what Hayden was. Nesky never quite put it

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Speaker 2: all together, but he was an effective swingman at times.

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Speaker 2: I think they were pretty high on his future still, right,

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Speaker 2: I just think that's an area that they got to

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Speaker 2: kind of go after and really supplement.

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Speaker 1: Right. Right, pitching has to be an area that they upgrade, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't. Again we talked about Bellinger. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they've hidden the fact that they want pitching. There's more

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Speaker 1: pitching coming. They added Eli Morgan, they added Matthew Boyd.

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Speaker 1: There's more coming. Whether it's a huge move, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a you know, just a we know this guy's going

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Speaker 1: to be in the rotation move, we'll see what that is.

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Speaker 1: As far as giving up with Nesky, I was hearing

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Speaker 1: a lot that they were high on was Nesky. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they wanted to give up with Nesky. I

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Speaker 1: know they were high on cam Smith. Had I ran

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Speaker 1: into multiple amateur people this week. One person like laughed

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Speaker 1: when when I mentioned cam Smith. He's like, they can't

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Speaker 1: do that again. Amateur people are going to be biased.

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Speaker 1: Amateur people are in love with the guys that they

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Speaker 1: just saw in the draft. But there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of people around the game and the amateur side who

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Speaker 1: loved cam Smith. If the Astros think they didn't get

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Speaker 1: if astrospans are out are thinking they didn't get much

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Speaker 1: in this trade. This is a hall for a rental.

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Speaker 1: It's a It's not the Juan Soto hall, but it's

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Speaker 1: not the same return for Mookie Bats, Paul Goldschmith, Francisco Lindor.

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Speaker 1: This is this is better than that. Maybe. I mean

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Speaker 1: the Lindor names were decently decently big at the time,

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Speaker 1: but this feels bigger. This feels more impactful. H Like

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Speaker 1: I said, was Nesci was inconsistent. But there are I

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Speaker 1: know there are teams out there that think, hey, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get my hands on this guy, uh

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Speaker 1: and see what we can do with them. That that's

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Speaker 1: you know, that happens a lot and and sometimes it

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Speaker 1: just never works out. Cam Smith had two months of

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Speaker 1: pro ball. Everyone fell in love with him. We don't

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Speaker 1: know what he's gonna be, and isak partis, Look, he

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Speaker 1: struggled in his time here. I think he's a really

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Speaker 1: quality player, and I think maybe the Crawford boxes or

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Speaker 1: were built for him. But but we'll see, we'll see

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Speaker 1: what how he performs and and how those final What

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Speaker 1: is it? Two two years? Three years? Right? He had

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Speaker 1: three years too, he had three more. I mean, that's it.

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Speaker 1: That's a ton of that's a ton of service time.

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Speaker 1: That's a ton of years left. This is a hefty price.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think you could say the

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Speaker 1: Cubs stole Kyle Tucker. But again I go back to

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Speaker 1: this is what you have to do to get a

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Speaker 1: superstar in your team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they got the best player in the deal

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Speaker 2: by far, and that's usually a good strategy. Look, Pretis

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Speaker 2: was not a player who grew on you the more

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Speaker 2: you watched him, Like, I don't know. To me, seemed

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Speaker 2: like a guy who was good at kind of compiling

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Speaker 2: war more so than playing the game. Maybe it was

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Speaker 2: just a bad stretch. He could rebound, particularly hitting in

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Speaker 2: that ballpark and maybe in a different environment. But do

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Speaker 2: you think he's gonna be a great player over the

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Speaker 2: next three years. I didn't really get those vibes in

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Speaker 2: just kind of watching him on top of the fact

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Speaker 2: that the race kind of gave up on him and

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Speaker 2: moved him, Like I think we both have received those

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Speaker 2: signals of like, yeah, you know, the Rays kind of

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Speaker 2: knew it was time to move on, and that to

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Speaker 2: me is usually a good sign that something bad is

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Speaker 2: about to happen around the player. Yeah, Loo, Wesnsky could

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Speaker 2: put it together, change of scenery, he still wasn't going

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Speaker 2: to crack their opening opening day rotation, especially since they

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Speaker 2: have five pitchers and they're playing to add another starter.

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Speaker 2: And look, camp Smith has played like five games at

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Speaker 2: double A. You know, I don't know if he was

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Speaker 2: quite a reach, but he was certainly someone who had

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Speaker 2: kind of like come on really fast, but still years

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Speaker 2: away from being like an everyday impact player on a

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Speaker 2: playoff team. And you know, if you're the Cubs, I

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Speaker 2: don't Obviously you had to haggle and you had to negotiate,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think you lose much sleep over what

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Speaker 2: you gave up in this deal.

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Speaker 1: Right, And part of it is, Look, they built all

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Speaker 1: this depth and we've been saying this for like at

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Speaker 1: least a year now. I know going into last winter,

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Speaker 1: I was wondering if they were going to make a trade.

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Speaker 1: But when you build this much prospect depth, eventually some

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Speaker 1: of them have to get moved. Yes, would have been

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Speaker 1: nice to get a player that is under control for

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Speaker 1: more than one year. Absolutely, those players are hard to

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Speaker 1: find when and you're not always timed up for those right.

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Speaker 1: That's why I would argue. I often said, like, the

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Speaker 1: timing can't be perfect. Sometimes you just have to go

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Speaker 1: get the guy when he's available. Right this time, the

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Speaker 1: timing was kind of perfect. They're they're in a win

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Speaker 1: now phase and they had to go get them. They

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Speaker 1: have to be aggressive. You cannot keep passing up these opportunities.

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Speaker 1: They weren't in on Paul Goldschmid, they weren't in on

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Speaker 1: Francisco lind Or, they weren't in on Mookie Bets, they

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Speaker 1: weren't in on the Wan Soto trade, they weren't in

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Speaker 1: on the Wan Soto signing. How many big names have

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Speaker 1: they not been in on like these opportunities. You can't

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Speaker 1: keep saying passed. You have to go in at some point,

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Speaker 1: and they did right, and we can talk about why

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Speaker 1: what is this signal about the Cubs? Right, It's what

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Speaker 1: I just said Patrick. They're in a win now phase.

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Speaker 1: They're not trying to like they're what have we seen

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Speaker 1: in the past few years, eighty three wins. They're keep

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Speaker 1: repeating this. They're not terrible, they're not a seventy win team,

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Speaker 1: but they're not good enough. They're just not good enough.

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Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker puts someone in this lineup that the opposition

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Speaker 1: has to game plan for. I like Saya Suzuki a lot.

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Speaker 1: You've heard me talk about how much I like them.

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Speaker 1: There's no like hiding my thoughts on his offensive skill set.

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Speaker 1: He's a high level offensive player. He is not that

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Speaker 1: player that the opposition says, Okay, we can't let him

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Speaker 1: beat us. Okay, how do we get him out? Oh crap,

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Speaker 1: what are we going to do? He's up to bat

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Speaker 1: with men on base in a high leverage situation. Right,

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's that type of player, but he wasn't treated

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Speaker 1: like that by the rest of the league. I think

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Speaker 1: that matters. You know, that's not measured in some like

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Speaker 1: in any numbers, but that does matter in some fashion,

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Speaker 1: and I think he changes the way the lineup looks

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Speaker 1: ian happen, say, Suzuki are better because Kyle Tucker is

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Speaker 1: in the lineup. As much as I like the east

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Speaker 1: op paratus rate and I liked it because of the

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Speaker 1: boldness and the aggressiveness he was another player. It's like,

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Speaker 1: this guy's good. He's really good. I don't think he's elite,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's what they have now. We don't like

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Speaker 1: if anyone disagrees with the fact that Kyle Tucker is elite,

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Speaker 1: an elite talent, I guess they just aren't paying enough attention,

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Speaker 1: Like because he's one of the top ten bats in

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Speaker 1: the game.

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Speaker 2: He's that classic guy who can give you that three

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Speaker 2: run homer, like that big swing the Cubs have been

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Speaker 2: missing so many times over the last two seasons. He's

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Speaker 2: a guy who delivers, and when you have that in

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Speaker 2: your lineup, it helps the other hitters relax. It buys

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Speaker 2: you some time for the rest of those young prospects

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Speaker 2: and young players to develop. As the Cubs are sorting

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Speaker 2: out their bullpen again next April and May, gives them

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Speaker 2: a little more breathing room. Like the game is about power,

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Speaker 2: the Cubs did not have enough of it, and this

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Speaker 2: guy brings it as well as almost anyone in the game.

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Speaker 1: Right. One forty three way to runs created plus since

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, I believe, is what I wrote. These are

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Speaker 1: the guys with one forty or better since twenty ten

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Speaker 1: Cubs uniform in a full full season. Anthony Rizzo, Chris Bryant.

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Speaker 1: That's it. Who are the key pieces of a World

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Speaker 1: Series team? Where Anthony Rizzo Chris Bryant so pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Pretty good guys to have on your team. He's also

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Speaker 1: more valuable defensively and on the base pats than both

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Speaker 1: of them. I mean, Chris Bryant was a great base runner,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think he stole many bases. It's a

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Speaker 1: different game now, but still like he can steal a base.

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Speaker 1: From what we understand, that injury from last year is

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Speaker 1: not something that's lingered. It was more about like the

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Speaker 1: weirdness about that wasn't like, uh, this is link this

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Speaker 1: is It was a misdiagnosis essentially, or at least told

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Speaker 1: to the public as a misdiagnosis a bone bruse, when

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Speaker 1: it was actually a fracture that just needs to heal.

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Speaker 1: It's not like this devastating injury right, So so he's healthy,

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Speaker 1: he's an impact talent. What like this, This is the

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Speaker 1: Cubs going for a jump in wins, looking for a

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Speaker 1: way to change the dynamic and go to the playoffs

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five. It's it's what everyone has been

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Speaker 1: asking for and just frankly demanding act like a big

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Speaker 1: market team. Be bold, be smart, be creative and aggressive.

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Speaker 1: And they did that. So you know, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not perfect. It's not over yet. We need to see

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Speaker 1: what else they do. But I like the lineup a lot,

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Speaker 1: even with the whole at third base.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean message received, right, I mean of you

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Speaker 2: know how many times have we asked Jed Hoyer about

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Speaker 2: the idea of star power and they went out and

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Speaker 2: got a guy who I don't know if he has

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Speaker 2: the most magnetic, outgoing personality, he has has the game

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Speaker 2: for it. It'll we'll see how he kind of adjusts

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Speaker 2: to Wrigley Field. But I think it also shows a

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Speaker 2: lot of progress internally in terms of scouting and player development.

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Speaker 2: The fact that Cam Smith, who is like a draft

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Speaker 2: eligible sophomore, could kind of get hot, rise up their

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Speaker 2: draft board and kind of go off in the minors

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Speaker 2: and become that headliner prospect guy, and that the Cubs

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Speaker 2: could do that without really sweating it, as well as

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Speaker 2: throwing in a nice young pitcher under long term control

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Speaker 2: and still feeling pretty good about their depth. Like these

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Speaker 2: are the signs, as Craig Counsel would say, of a

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Speaker 2: healthy organization.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's exactly right. I mean, look at the

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Speaker 1: Cubs have so many prospects still like Kevin Alcantra, Owen Casey,

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Speaker 1: Matt Shaw are all going to be up this year,

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Speaker 1: you know, unless any of them are used at trades.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe Matt Shaw will be traded. Who knows

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Speaker 1: what else they have their hands and what they're trying

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Speaker 1: to pull off, But I would not be surprised if

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Speaker 1: there's another move of some sorts in that way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is it's a it's a fascinating move, and it's

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Speaker 1: finally something for fans to be excited for. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: happy for fans in that sense where it's like there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of negativity building up and there was

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Speaker 1: also this this feeling that the Cubs are kind of

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Speaker 1: slipping into irrelevancy, right, Like they weren't disastrous, they weren't awful,

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Speaker 1: But there was no national buzz about the Cubs. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: talking about the Cubs. They're just there. Yeah, and and

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Speaker 1: it was and like and they're almost being overlooked in

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Speaker 1: a town where there's so much dysfunction in the sports

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Speaker 1: world that you needed something good to look at, and

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Speaker 1: the Cubs weren't taking advantage of that. And now that

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Speaker 1: looks like they're at least trying to that. That feels

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Speaker 1: good for the city. Uh and the sports fans, sports fans,

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Speaker 1: at least the Cubs fans in this city. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think this is one of those I know, one

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Speaker 2: of our segments of kind of what what they gave

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Speaker 2: up and we had to explain that, and that's interesting,

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Speaker 2: but it's not really something I think we're gonna linger on.

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Speaker 2: It's like, what did they gain? And they gained some credibility,

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Speaker 2: they gave themselves a much better chance to compete. They'll

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Speaker 2: have a year to essentially recruit Kyle Tucker as a

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Speaker 2: free agent, and you know, this is why they spent

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Speaker 2: years kind of building this system up. And you can't

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Speaker 2: really worry about what Cam Smith might do in like

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty nine. Like an organization that absolutely has to

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Speaker 2: win now or else. There's probably going to be major

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Speaker 2: changes next off season.

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Speaker 1: Right right, and who knows if Kyle Tucker walks in

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Speaker 1: a year. We can discuss these things over the course

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Speaker 1: of the season.

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Speaker 2: Get a draft pick, draft another college hitter who you're

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Speaker 2: right well in the Cape Codley, I mean, come on

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Speaker 2: hard And when.

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Speaker 1: We talk about relevancy, this is one of the texts

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Speaker 1: I got from a competing execs. We went back and forth,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of it, he's like, well, the

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Speaker 1: Cubs are in the mix again about time. Like that's

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Speaker 1: like people around the league have been saying, what are

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Speaker 1: they doing? Like they're like, I don't understand what the

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Speaker 1: Cubs are doing. I don't understand what direction they see.

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Speaker 1: Like now, at least it makes a little sense. And people,

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Speaker 1: they're not the butt of jokes. They're not. They're not,

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Speaker 1: just like I said, falling into a relevancy Like there's

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Speaker 1: there's something to talk about here in a positive fashion.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what else go happens. Patrick will will likely

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Speaker 1: be recording Monday or Tuesday. I wouldn't be surprised if

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Speaker 1: we have more to talk about than we'll see. Uh well,

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Speaker 1: it'll likely be Tuesday, right that that probably makes the

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Speaker 1: most sense with what we're hearing regarding access to Tucker

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Speaker 1: and Jed Hoyer. So uh, we'll have more to talk about,

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Speaker 1: is my guest be It won't be a boring weekend either,

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Speaker 1: So thanks for listening. I hope, I hope you guys

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Speaker 1: are entertained with this week of podcasts. It was a

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Speaker 1: hectic week, but it ends on a high note for

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Speaker 1: the Cubs. Enjoy your weekend, celebrate Kyle Tucker. Make sure

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Speaker 1: to rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast north Side Territory.

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Speaker 1: Make sure to subscribe to The Athletic, where Patrick and

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Speaker 1: I will have more Kyle Tucker thoughts and whatever else

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Speaker 1: the Cubs are doing the rest of this winter. We

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Speaker 1: will we will have plenty of thoughts on that. Thanks

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Speaker 1: and take care. I will leave do they don't The

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Speaker 1: Leader