Speaker 1: Warning warning.
Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for the current Marvel Deadpool series,
Speaker 2: as well as some of the Mark with the Mouth's
Speaker 2: previous appearances.
Speaker 1: Hello, I am not Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 2: I am Rosie Knight and welcome back to x ray Vision.
Speaker 2: This week is Deadpool Kills the X ray Universe, where
Speaker 2: luckily he doesn't kill us. But we are going to
Speaker 2: have one new episode every single day of the week,
Speaker 2: adding up to five episodes this week, all about Deadpool
Speaker 2: versus Wolverine. Today, it's just me and I'm talking to
Speaker 2: Cody Ziggler, the current Deadpool head writer and previous co
Speaker 2: founder of x ray Vision, one of the original hosts,
Speaker 2: and it's going to be a delightful chat about Depol's
Speaker 2: comic book history and about making comics with Cody Ziggler.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Cody Ziggler is one of the original hosts of Extra
Speaker 2: Vision and a superstar TV writer on shows like Futurama,
Speaker 2: Rick and Morty, and She Hulk.
Speaker 1: But that's not all.
Speaker 2: He's also a fantastic comic book writer behind the Smash
Speaker 2: It Spider Punk mini series and its sequel, which we
Speaker 2: love deeply. Here and he's the current, as we say
Speaker 2: in comics headwriter on Deadpool.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, zig?
Speaker 3: I am good. It's always a pleasure coming back in,
Speaker 3: Like just honestly talking about nerd stuff for an hour?
Speaker 3: Is that the best way to spend a Friday.
Speaker 1: Just so happy to have you back on here. So
Speaker 1: how have you been? I mean that's the first thing, Like,
Speaker 1: everyone who listens to this show knows you. So how's
Speaker 1: it going.
Speaker 3: I've been good, and as you can, as you sort
Speaker 3: of said, a little busy. The big thing that I
Speaker 3: did was like when the writer's trick was happening, I
Speaker 3: was like, I got nothing but free time. I'm going
Speaker 3: to sign up for all my favorite comic books. And
Speaker 3: then and then when the strike was settled, I was like,
Speaker 3: oh wow, I do all these and write for future.
Speaker 3: So I've been very busy for the past six months.
Speaker 3: But it's a great problem to have. And also I
Speaker 3: want to say congrats to you, like I've been loving
Speaker 3: the Godzilla stuff you've been putting out, Like it's been
Speaker 3: so fun.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That means a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very excited I have that we've got that first
Speaker 2: Godzilla Kids graphic novel coming out soon in August, so
Speaker 2: that's going to be rad. And yeah, I'm feeling very excited.
Speaker 2: You know, we're very lucky to get to do this,
Speaker 2: to get to two stories in this space. I mean,
Speaker 2: I was stoked because I saw all those crazy the
Speaker 2: Godzilla like crossover Marvel covers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Pilla Venom
Speaker 2: and stuff. So yeah, it's been a good time. So
Speaker 2: this is our week. We're doing a week of all
Speaker 2: Deadpool and Wolverine coverage. We're gonna have a new episode
Speaker 2: every single day, and having you here is a.
Speaker 1: Big part of that.
Speaker 2: So I would just start by asking you, like, what's
Speaker 2: your first memory of Deadpool?
Speaker 1: Like coming across Deadpool?
Speaker 3: My first memory of Deadpool was I think. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think it's like everyone's like I saw the panel
Speaker 3: where he does sure you can on some random characters
Speaker 3: like hey, you ever played street Fighter? And they're like
Speaker 3: what and then he does like a street Fighter cont.
Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell is this? And then
Speaker 3: when I was in college, I was very broke, but
Speaker 3: I found I found online through a various bay full
Speaker 3: of pirates, every every single issue that Deadpool had been
Speaker 3: up until that point. So up until like twenty I'm
Speaker 3: like I guess twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, so like his
Speaker 3: original run, like his random weird cameo when like a
Speaker 3: Batman Superman story where like we're like Slade Wilson is
Speaker 3: there and like Wade Wilson shows up like truly everything.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is great, Like I've never
Speaker 3: read I didn't know combooks could be like funny, So
Speaker 3: like he was super funny. Like also like he had
Speaker 3: heart like his earlier nineties stuff when he was you know,
Speaker 3: when Rob Leifeld was doing him, it was like very
Speaker 3: like nineties, very grady pouches everywhere, a lot of like
Speaker 3: huge cool guns. So like seeing his transition from that
Speaker 3: to like, oh he can be like a comedic character. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then seeing how he was used in other books,
Speaker 3: like I always talk about the I believe It's X Force.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about that one?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's so good. It's so cool, like
Speaker 3: you get to serve both worlds for like where like
Speaker 3: there's a point where they're on the moon as it
Speaker 3: happens and like Angel has been ravaged with this special
Speaker 3: mutant power that makes him like basically started death. So
Speaker 3: Deadpool is like slicing off that part of feed Them.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. And then at the end of it
Speaker 3: you realize that Deadpool hasn't really been cashing any checks
Speaker 3: because he's been doing this for like the good reason
Speaker 3: he never wanted to cook. It's like just everything I
Speaker 3: loved all that, So, like, I just love Deadpool and
Speaker 3: like Cable and Deadpool was like my absolute favorite series. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was like I didn't know you could do. It
Speaker 3: was just everything I wanted. A character, combo character like
Speaker 3: he had. He was like Spider Man but also like
Speaker 3: he had guns and he had like really really weird
Speaker 3: fourth wall breaking jokes, which I've never seen in comics
Speaker 3: before either up until like you know, a little bit
Speaker 3: of she Hulk.
Speaker 2: Oh, that was definitely I think that was really like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she Hulk, and then Deadpool kind of took it to
Speaker 2: that next level.
Speaker 1: I mean that Uncanny Exoss book.
Speaker 2: We had pretty Chibber on your your Marvel colleague, who
Speaker 2: is also just so wonderful, and that was one that
Speaker 2: me and her and Jason all brought up, like Rickrimmender,
Speaker 2: Jerome Apena, that is just it's up there with like
Speaker 2: Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly's New Eca and like it's
Speaker 2: so weird, it's so good, and that same scene him,
Speaker 2: it's a perfect mix of like the gritty and the hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, which is kind of what I think
Speaker 2: Deadpool does so well. I think we touched on this,
Speaker 2: but as like, now you're in this really interesting position
Speaker 2: as a creator and a fan and just like a
Speaker 2: massive nerd like me, what do you think it is
Speaker 2: that makes people like Deadpool, especially like see because that
Speaker 2: his fantom's grown so much since the movies came out?
Speaker 1: But what is it? What are those touch points that
Speaker 1: people love?
Speaker 3: I think one, they like the comedy aspect of it.
Speaker 3: But he's also such a unique character, I think at Marvel,
Speaker 3: because there's no one really else like him, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you have characters that you have tons of mercenary characters
Speaker 3: and tons of like you know, gun for higher characters,
Speaker 3: but like you know, there's really no one else that
Speaker 3: does what he does. And also his stories spans such
Speaker 3: a different vast type of storytelling that you have like
Speaker 3: the gritty, you know, nineties sort of like neo noir
Speaker 3: type stories, and you have like the sort of like
Speaker 3: slapsticky like oh, I love Chimmy Chong's which is like
Speaker 3: the whole thing, but he's also a good I think
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this today before starting the unitew
Speaker 3: like he's such a good utility character, like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: he can plug so many different things that you need
Speaker 3: in a team. I think that's why he really thrives
Speaker 3: in like team books, like particularly in books that aren't Deadpool,
Speaker 3: because you can see like, yeah, he could be like
Speaker 3: the funny guy, but he can also be like the
Speaker 3: heart of the team. And like you know, Marvel has
Speaker 3: like Pillars of the Marvel, which I think is Spider Man,
Speaker 3: I think the Fantastic four X Men, X Men Captain America,
Speaker 3: and I think Deadpool sort of rides as like that
Speaker 3: four of fourth pillar for like Marvel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree, it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: He kind of him and Halloquin kind of fill this
Speaker 2: interesting space because that was like it used to always
Speaker 2: be that the trinity at DC was you know, Wonder Woman, Superman,
Speaker 2: and Batman. But then around like ten years ago they
Speaker 2: started saying, well, the fourth pillar is Harley Quinn because
Speaker 2: like people love her so much.
Speaker 1: She's so weird. People cause players her and in a
Speaker 1: weird way.
Speaker 2: I guess Deadpool kind of has that, yeah, that similar
Speaker 2: vibe because it's like you said, he can just be
Speaker 2: plugged in anywhere.
Speaker 3: That just reminded me that, you know, Harley's also like
Speaker 3: a newer character, like she creates to him, and like
Speaker 3: Deadpool's been around for a while, but like he wasn't
Speaker 3: really popular until, like from my perspective, until like the
Speaker 3: Deadpool movie, So like, yeah, you had a character that's
Speaker 3: been around for a while and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I like this character, but like now you see people
Speaker 3: with like the Deadpool logo or like m he's in
Speaker 3: like tons of video games and like that's sort of
Speaker 3: the same energy I get from from Harley Quinn, which
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, she's like on the posters now, like
Speaker 3: she's like, if you want to sell a DC movie,
Speaker 3: like you need to have not just a joker, Like
Speaker 3: people don't really care about the joke anymore, Like you
Speaker 3: want to see Harley Quinn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, you're so, you're so right because
Speaker 2: New Mutant's ninety eight first appearance Fabian the Cheezer and
Speaker 2: brob Leifeld, right, and you're right like that also, people
Speaker 2: will be surprised because when you read that he's like
Speaker 2: a super villain. He's definitely in that Slade Wilson mold.
Speaker 2: He's like, he's very gritty, the artist super abstract. But
Speaker 2: the version we know is really like the Daniel Way
Speaker 2: version where like he's cracking jokes, or the Jerry Duggan version.
Speaker 1: There's so many different creators, so he definitely.
Speaker 2: Fills that slot of like a comedic new character.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was so the movie.
Speaker 2: I think they had a feeling, even though they always
Speaker 2: say they're not sure if it was gonna make money,
Speaker 2: but they reprinted New Mutant's ninety eight when I was
Speaker 2: working at the comic shop, which was in the lead
Speaker 2: up to the Deadpool movie, and I just so distinctly
Speaker 2: remember how everyone wanted that reprint. It was one of
Speaker 2: the Duller Marvel reprints, but everyone needed to have it,
Speaker 2: and ironically they were right. I mean we used to
Speaker 2: laugh because we'd be like, guys, it's not gonna be
Speaker 2: worth any money. But ironically now they actually sell those
Speaker 2: reprints as collectible, so I was wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people yearned for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they they yearned to touch, and number one, you
Speaker 2: know I understand the people. Yeah, people love to touch
Speaker 2: a valuable comic. Also I actually didn't know this till
Speaker 2: I was prepping for this. But in the cable Depool
Speaker 2: series that you were talking about, which is I definitely
Speaker 2: think like very distinct moment for them both, he actually
Speaker 2: like refers to himself as like Ryan Reynolds crossed with
Speaker 2: a Sharpei.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you set up.
Speaker 2: That kind of like Nick Fury esque yeah, yeah, situation
Speaker 2: there where it suddenly becomes like you're you're making.
Speaker 3: You're like manifesting, manifesting who you want to Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I guess it was only a year later,
Speaker 2: Like we were talking about kind of the long history
Speaker 2: of Deadpool in another episode, and I think it was
Speaker 2: like a year later that Bryan Reynolds met Avi rad
Speaker 2: for the first time Deadpool.
Speaker 1: So it really did manifest it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Even like the how that movie came about is
Speaker 3: so crazy and like it was in development hell forever.
Speaker 3: I remember reading the original script with like most of
Speaker 3: it was there, but like that third act was completely different,
Speaker 3: and then they were just like, oh no, we leaked
Speaker 3: this test footage, which is like.
Speaker 4: I know, make who could have leaked it? And now
Speaker 4: everybody loves the movie.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you are in a really interesting position because
Speaker 2: you mentioned this, Like, so in the nineties, he's kind
Speaker 2: of like a weird character.
Speaker 1: He's one of those characters where people are.
Speaker 2: Like, he has no feet, rob Ifelk, can't ri your feet,
Speaker 2: Like he's like a cult character. Then the movie happens.
Speaker 2: Before that, you've had some like distinct Deadpool runs like
Speaker 2: Daniel Way's round, different people who've given him that voice.
Speaker 2: But then you know, now the movie comes out.
Speaker 1: One movie comes.
Speaker 2: Out huge smash it, second movie comes out huge slash it,
Speaker 2: leading into this third movie, which we know everyone's very
Speaker 2: excited about because it brings back Hu Jackmin. It's, well,
Speaker 2: what does it feel like to be writing Deadpool at
Speaker 2: the time where he is one of those pillar characters.
Speaker 2: This isn't a cult character anymore, Like how did it
Speaker 2: feel approaching that?
Speaker 3: It was a little bit surreal because you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know if you feel the same way, But I
Speaker 3: don't even think about that, like you forget oh me neither.
Speaker 1: When I write Godzilla, I'm just like, this is just
Speaker 1: my little story.
Speaker 2: He's like, it's a seventieth anniversary and he's like a
Speaker 2: hugely poppy like characters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me some movies come out last year like
Speaker 3: that's how big he is?
Speaker 4: Why an Oscar?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's It's one of those things where like
Speaker 3: you forget how big it is because like I grew
Speaker 3: up again, like when when Deadpool wasn't like huge, like
Speaker 3: he was like a character that Marvel had, but like
Speaker 3: it was before like the MCU was a thing, so like, yeah,
Speaker 3: no one really was like super into comic book characters
Speaker 3: outside of like maybe spider Man and the Fantastic Four,
Speaker 3: like maybe the whole, but like no one was like
Speaker 3: Clamoran for like four or like or like Black Widow
Speaker 3: or like especially like Deadpool, so you could get away
Speaker 3: with a bunch of stuff. So like that was that
Speaker 3: was kind of like my mindset going into it. And
Speaker 3: then as I'm like writing the book, You'm like looking
Speaker 3: around my apartment and say like, oh, there's like a
Speaker 3: Deadpool game I have, or like yeah, there's like you
Speaker 3: know the Deep.
Speaker 2: Bluid talking about that suit as well, because I feel
Speaker 2: like people don't really know, they don't remember the Deadpool game,
Speaker 2: but I feel like it was like a secretly big
Speaker 2: deal when it came out.
Speaker 1: Like if you see when it came out, you were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I go.
Speaker 3: To play this like yeah, because like you were like,
Speaker 3: there's no reality in which you thought Deadpool was going
Speaker 3: to get his own games as well. But writing the comic,
Speaker 3: it was like as I was like writing it, and
Speaker 3: like once the first couple of issues came out and
Speaker 3: you're like, wow, people like I didn't realize, like how
Speaker 3: that Pool seems so much bigger now that he was
Speaker 3: I guess fifteen years ago when I was like first
Speaker 3: reading him. So like you have like people that are
Speaker 3: cosplaying him, people that are into like his deep lore now,
Speaker 3: like thing that I thought was going to be fun
Speaker 3: to bring back was like one of his daughters, Ellie. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And like just seeing the response from that, people like
Speaker 3: finally Ellie's coming back, and like, oh wow, I didn't
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that people love the Dugan and Brian
Speaker 3: Posaye run.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I think for some people that's the definitive
Speaker 2: run that gave him that voice, which is funny because
Speaker 2: it's so far off that he was bought like kind
Speaker 2: of created, But yeah, that is definitely.
Speaker 1: One of those ones.
Speaker 2: And also so something really unique that I found out
Speaker 2: when I was working at the comic shop. They obviously
Speaker 2: knew Deadpool was a character that was selling, so they
Speaker 2: started putting out these like telephone sized collections of like
Speaker 2: Deadpool classics. It's really funny because it's like I was
Speaker 2: working at the comic shop. I on a twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: or twenty fifteen, right, and some of those books had
Speaker 2: only come out like three years ago, so we were
Speaker 2: all cracking up on them, like is this a classic?
Speaker 1: Is this a classic?
Speaker 2: But actually that meant that for a lot of people
Speaker 2: who saw the movie and wanted to buy Deport, it
Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh, this book's out of print, they could
Speaker 2: go into a comic shop and just pick up one
Speaker 2: of these volumes. And I think that the dug And
Speaker 2: one was definitely one of those ones. And I think
Speaker 2: it enabled Deppo to have this really unique fan base
Speaker 2: of people who are actually exceptionally well read in his
Speaker 2: law and kind of in his history and these kind
Speaker 2: of like you think things that are you think are
Speaker 2: kind of oh, this is just something I thought was cool,
Speaker 2: and then people are like.
Speaker 1: Na, man, like we needed Ellen a back, like Ellie
Speaker 1: come back. Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was yeah. And also I remember being really
Speaker 3: that was sort of when I think right towards the telling,
Speaker 3: when I stopped having a lot of free time to
Speaker 3: read because I was a graduating college like, no, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be broke for a living bit. But I remember
Speaker 3: being really invested in the Brian Pussain run because he
Speaker 3: was a comedian. Oh wow, ye write comics, So I
Speaker 3: knew it was gonna be like because I love Mister
Speaker 3: Show and.
Speaker 1: Like all that stuff, so like I mean so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that that was like sort of around
Speaker 3: the air where they started like sort of taking in
Speaker 3: comedic people and like having them writ in the comics.
Speaker 3: And I think that's when Also, like I think it
Speaker 3: also helped Deadpool sort of solidify his voice for that
Speaker 3: era of Deadpool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so completely, Like you know, Daniel Way
Speaker 2: gave him that third voice in his head. But I
Speaker 2: think that a lot of what we really know comes,
Speaker 2: especially like the Chimney changa s. Yeah, let's just like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna eat this delicious Mexican food and then like
Speaker 2: chop off my own arm.
Speaker 1: You know, there's not enough topics or as the kind.
Speaker 2: Of wild stuff that Pool's lays day. You know, people
Speaker 2: love it, there's an unexpected love. But did you feel
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of freedom writing the character because
Speaker 2: it's just like suck a wild character.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had Surprisingly, there's like sort of two answers
Speaker 3: like this, there's a lot of freedom because the character
Speaker 3: has been around for a while, but because he sort
Speaker 3: of built in with like, oh he's like crazy, he
Speaker 3: has voices. He like you don't know what's real and
Speaker 3: what's not real. Like you've had some freedom with that.
Speaker 3: Also because I had that, like I read like fifteen
Speaker 3: twenty years of Deadpool, like that's where my inspiration come from.
Speaker 3: So like I pulled from that. Actually, when I was
Speaker 3: writing it, I was I didn't know that they had
Speaker 3: gotten rid of the third voice. So like one of
Speaker 3: my first notes in the editor was like, hey, we
Speaker 3: haven't done this in like ten years. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I guess that's how out of out of it I am.
Speaker 1: By you know, like that's my error of dead poot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I need the three caption boxes to really
Speaker 3: make it sing. But I found that I had a
Speaker 3: lot of freedom, Like I said, this is what I
Speaker 3: wanted to do, Like I love Alyssa Wong's run a
Speaker 3: letter that they just made a mom com for yeah,
Speaker 3: ten twelve issues, however long it was. I thought that
Speaker 3: was cool. So like I was like, yeah, I want
Speaker 3: to do like, you know, a an off of comedy
Speaker 3: with Deadpool in his two kids. And you know, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that sounds fun. So like I think also because again
Speaker 3: Deadpool has been around for a while, like he has
Speaker 3: relationships with people like that Gel Simone run where like
Speaker 3: Agent X or whatever takes over the Deadpool run a
Speaker 3: road task Master. I can't remember who takes over, but
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, he has relationships like it made
Speaker 3: it easy to like sort of do that. So, like
Speaker 3: you know, I was I was actually surprised at a
Speaker 3: character that big had that much freedom when it came
Speaker 3: to like doing all I want to do with this story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think that in a way, it's kind of
Speaker 2: funny because people do we do when we think of Deadpool,
Speaker 2: like we think of the wild stuff and yeah, the
Speaker 2: gross stuff. Batch you you make a really good point,
Speaker 2: and I think this is something the movies translated really well.
Speaker 2: There's actually like a lot of heart, and it's actually
Speaker 2: about how when you're this kind of weird immortal like
Speaker 2: constantly yeah, you know, your body's constantly making new cells
Speaker 2: and kind of living in this life but you live
Speaker 2: for such a long time, of course you're going to
Speaker 2: have important relationships. Yeah, Like the humanity is actually really vital, Yeah,
Speaker 2: to kind of keep alive when you're so infinitely overpowered.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And also it comes back to like again my
Speaker 3: favorite scene from almost any Deadpool stories that the uncunny
Speaker 3: X Men were like mm hm. Wolverine is like, you're
Speaker 3: we know what you are. You're a bad person, Like
Speaker 3: you're only in this for the money, Like why you
Speaker 3: pretend to have a soul, And He's like, no, I
Speaker 3: do bad things. I never I've never made any illusions
Speaker 3: to otherwise, but like these this is the line that
Speaker 3: I draw on the sand, which is like in this
Speaker 3: book like killing kids and I'm never going to do it.
Speaker 3: And like, once Deadpool leaves, you realize that he has
Speaker 3: never cash any checks for those missions because he wasn't
Speaker 3: about it for the money. He was trying to save
Speaker 3: this kid. And like, oh that's what I like. I
Speaker 3: like that duality of Deadpool. Like yeah, I think I
Speaker 3: like the idea of like you know, the quote unquote
Speaker 3: sad clown like that to me is very interesting as
Speaker 3: a character. And like, I think there's a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff you can mind from that when you're writing it.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of the reason why your
Speaker 2: iteration of Deadpool's been like very well received, because even
Speaker 2: like subtly the first Deadpool movie especially, it definitely plays
Speaker 2: on that. Yeah, he's definitely that sad kind. Also, he
Speaker 2: always wants to help a kid.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's got like a teen you know, I
Speaker 2: still am so grateful. If there's one thing I'm most
Speaker 2: grateful for for the dead Pool movies, it's probably their
Speaker 2: version of Negasonic teenage. She's just so utterly fantastic and
Speaker 2: like that definitely comes from that space of oh, like
Speaker 2: he's a found family guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like his life's so messed up, like he needs
Speaker 2: this funny found family.
Speaker 1: I guess. Actually that's something you know.
Speaker 2: You did so well with Spider Punk and the band
Speaker 2: and everything. It's something you're coming back to here, even though.
Speaker 1: It's like his real family.
Speaker 2: But also could you talk a little bit about found
Speaker 2: family stories and kind of why they're so appealing to
Speaker 2: us in general?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I've never thought of
Speaker 3: like the deep seated reason, but now you're instead of singing.
Speaker 3: I think it's I mean, I don't know, Like I
Speaker 3: have a lot of friends that mean a lot to me.
Speaker 2: Right, that's kind of I feel like our generation, it's
Speaker 2: like it's something we can relate to because we have
Speaker 2: found families, Yeah, friendship groups as we grow older.
Speaker 1: We are in them that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like we're constant communication. Like I have at least
Speaker 3: three group chats where I maybe haven't seen some of
Speaker 3: these people in years, but like we literally talk every
Speaker 3: single day and I've talked every single day four years.
Speaker 3: So like I think that that's not a unique experience
Speaker 3: to me, and I think that's something that a lot
Speaker 3: of people have. And I think also like, yeah, there
Speaker 3: was a lot of power being like you know, sometimes
Speaker 3: you're not dealt good family members. So being able to
Speaker 3: like have the choice and the agency to choose those
Speaker 3: people that you surround you with. I think it's also, like,
Speaker 3: you know, a very powerful thing. And like I think,
Speaker 3: particularly when you're that age, in the age of like
Speaker 3: someone like young teenager, like being able to surround yourself
Speaker 3: with the people that you want to Yeah, it's like
Speaker 3: one of the most powerful feelings in the world. And
Speaker 3: also like you can like let your freak flag fly
Speaker 3: and like that's that's part of the fun, like warts
Speaker 3: and all, Like particularly with Wade, who was full of
Speaker 3: warts and all, so like being able to be himself
Speaker 3: around people, I think is something that he really much admires.
Speaker 3: And I think that's something that just happened to like
Speaker 3: writing in books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're so right actually, because I was
Speaker 2: just thinking about this is like that there's something about
Speaker 2: moving outside of like the traditional you know, family set up,
Speaker 2: though honestly we are not necessarily people who are just
Speaker 2: like writing about a nuclear family anyway, but like I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about that too. Like with Montst Island Summer Camp.
Speaker 2: I was literally just on a different podcast like before this,
Speaker 2: with some really rad librarians called Turn the Page, but
Speaker 2: talking about like where did the idea for these characters
Speaker 2: come from?
Speaker 1: And what do you do?
Speaker 2: And that's a because it's set in a summer camp.
Speaker 2: There's no parents, and it's about these three kids who
Speaker 2: end up making this connection and you kind of build
Speaker 2: that relationship and you want to give them those moments
Speaker 2: of like that they're going to remember forever, they're going
Speaker 2: to kind of like define them for the rest of
Speaker 2: their lives. Those important kind of rad memories that you
Speaker 2: have with these friends that you make, And I think
Speaker 2: there is a definite freedom to just being like, well,
Speaker 2: you can put three totally different characters together and get
Speaker 2: to write three totally different people and then just kind
Speaker 2: of imagine how they would exist in this space, in
Speaker 2: this case, like a summer camp that's on Monster.
Speaker 1: Island or in your case, the Marvel universe with Dimple.
Speaker 1: But there's also it's not just because.
Speaker 2: It's like relatable, because I feel that like my friendship
Speaker 2: group is my family.
Speaker 1: I love them so much.
Speaker 2: But also I think as right as it is, there's
Speaker 2: a certain amount of freedom to just saying like, well,
Speaker 2: what if these three people met and like, yeah, if
Speaker 2: I wanted to make them happy, yeah, and that it's
Speaker 2: it's important you know.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 2: I guess when you were coming up with this idea
Speaker 2: for your Deadpool story, how did you kind of go
Speaker 2: about making those choices to kind of build this little
Speaker 2: family around him for this workplace comedy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I knew. I definitely, like I loved Princess
Speaker 3: from the previous run. I love Valentine too, but that
Speaker 3: was the only thing. More was like, well, let's we
Speaker 3: just sort of had this like love story, let's have
Speaker 3: something a little bit different. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: i'll do that. I'll take that note, but like a
Speaker 3: lot of princess like and I also loved Ellie, Like
Speaker 3: I love the idea of like this other daughter character
Speaker 3: that like is out there and like she presumably will
Speaker 3: have powers, which she ended up developing it. So I
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, it'd be fun to like watch Deadpool
Speaker 3: be two different types of dad, like a dad to
Speaker 3: like a weird symbio wolf daughter into like a daughter.
Speaker 3: And you know, I like the idea of like I
Speaker 3: think we've seen this in so many different types of comics,
Speaker 3: for like you know, father with the dark passes like
Speaker 3: I can't let you be a part of this world,
Speaker 3: but here's my here's my card, or here's my phone
Speaker 3: or whatever, and like you just sort of the kid
Speaker 3: just like waits around forever to be contacted. So like
Speaker 3: I like the idea of taking that and sort of
Speaker 3: subverting it and have her being like no, fuck that,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not going to be a damsel on the
Speaker 3: stress to my own dad. That's crazy. So like I
Speaker 3: like the idea of her making him be a father,
Speaker 3: which like fun to me. And then having that just
Speaker 3: set like an office place where like he's a not
Speaker 3: only a bad boss, but also he's trying to be
Speaker 3: a good dad. Seemed like very fun to me.
Speaker 1: That's really good bad boss, good dad. That's the T shirt.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I love this idea of kind of like the
Speaker 1: Doors of Deadpool.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like Doors in the Dragon. I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: the next spinoff. So what was it like? Your books
Speaker 1: are always like full of humila.
Speaker 2: I remember the time I read spider Punk number one
Speaker 2: and I was just like screaming, as you know, a
Speaker 2: cool thirty something year old who used to be like
Speaker 2: a punk. I was like, Oh, this is like so
Speaker 2: designed towards me. What was it like bringing now, like
Speaker 2: years later and you've written on Futurama sheehol Grick and Morty,
Speaker 2: like you've got this huge roster now of experience as
Speaker 2: a TV writer on comedies, on really high profile shows.
Speaker 2: Did you feel like that gave you like more insight
Speaker 2: into how to write a funny comic?
Speaker 3: Yeah, one thousand percent. Yeah, well yeah absolutely, because all
Speaker 3: those rooms were so different. She York was probably maybe
Speaker 3: the closer one to one because it was based off
Speaker 3: also a similar sort of comedy comic. But yeah, like
Speaker 3: I think the swimming that you learn when you're in
Speaker 3: TV shows because it's I guess it's not too dissimilar
Speaker 3: from comic book universes, is that, like you have a
Speaker 3: bunch of characters, particularly shows like Futurama that's been on forever, like,
Speaker 3: so every character has a very specific voice, so it's
Speaker 3: sort of you sort of get trained to tap into
Speaker 3: like a voice like oh, Wade probably talks like this
Speaker 3: task Master is gonna be this type of character, and
Speaker 3: Ellie and Princess will be like this distant character. But
Speaker 3: also I think as I've gotten more experience in shows,
Speaker 3: like I think also that's how I've sort of learned
Speaker 3: to lean more into like the drama or the character
Speaker 3: of it all. Like I think, particularly in Rick and Morty,
Speaker 3: they would always talk about like this, like seventy thirty
Speaker 3: split with like seventy percent comedy thirty percent drama, which
Speaker 3: is how you can get an episode where you know,
Speaker 3: Rick turns himself into a pickle, he makes a Mex
Speaker 3: suit out of like rats, and like he fights like
Speaker 3: Danny Trejo. But then at the end you just have
Speaker 3: a very real, grounded scene between family and their therapist
Speaker 3: or a show like Game of Thrones, which is like
Speaker 3: maybe abris drama, but like Cheering is such a funny
Speaker 3: Like there's so many funny scenes, like about once a week,
Speaker 3: I'll rewatch the scene where Chierran confronts Jeoffrey and like
Speaker 3: the town has been like they've been mutinating, Like he
Speaker 3: just slaps the kid. He's like, that's my hand and
Speaker 3: fult from my wrist. Like all that stuff is like
Speaker 3: so funny, or like Breaking Back and there's super funny show.
Speaker 3: It's like I think part of it was just like
Speaker 3: sort of finding that balance, so like I really go
Speaker 3: towards character stuff now, like I like exploring who Deadpool
Speaker 3: is and then getting your jokes in when you can.
Speaker 3: But like I think all of it's more just based
Speaker 3: off like character stuff, and like the funny just happens
Speaker 3: to like flow from that because we're surrounded by a
Speaker 3: bunch of bizarre characters.
Speaker 2: No, I feel that I actually think it's really interesting
Speaker 2: to go into those comedy series and then you come
Speaker 2: out and you're like, actually it's all about character, baby.
Speaker 2: You're like that's why they can do it. But you
Speaker 2: make so much sense. I mean everyone has their favorite
Speaker 2: Futurama Rick and Morty episode where you're like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is my favorite because it's like deeply haunting.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually it's like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Stuck with me for so many years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean everyone told you know, with Rick and Morty,
Speaker 2: I think a lot about like mister me Si. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone brings up because my niece and.
Speaker 1: Nephew love it because obviously kids watch.
Speaker 2: Rick and Morty thanks to the Internet and like, but
Speaker 2: as my nephew gets older, he started to like understand.
Speaker 1: How bleak it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just this funny thing.
Speaker 2: It's actually like this deeply existential, like grim thing.
Speaker 1: And I think that's that thing that comes from, you know,
Speaker 1: writing character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can balance these like laugh out loud moments,
Speaker 2: and I think that makes so much sense as to
Speaker 2: why your Deadpool feels so whole simple is actually incredibly
Speaker 2: haunting character. Yeah, Like if you really lay it all out,
Speaker 2: it's just completely yeah, ridiculous and grotesque, but actually so
Speaker 2: often you still get those moments that hit you and
Speaker 2: make you care about Wade.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's who's the Ito was a Prometheus that was
Speaker 3: tied to the rock.
Speaker 2: For GIVINGTHEUS and just cutting the lunge, Tommy's getting it.
Speaker 3: And everything, Like I think that's sort of Deadpool. Is
Speaker 3: this mix of like Prometheus and like Sissyphis, where like
Speaker 3: he's in constant like literally a constant state of decay
Speaker 3: and regeneration, and at some point he was like curse
Speaker 3: where like he could never die, so like the whole
Speaker 3: universe will die. It's like just very interesting, like sort
Speaker 3: of I mean, I sound like such a pretentious like
Speaker 3: writer now, but like something je could you know that
Speaker 3: really resonatd No.
Speaker 1: But we do always say like and this is not
Speaker 1: just us, you know, people like Mike Kerry, like there's
Speaker 1: fantastic creatives.
Speaker 2: It might sound like ostentatious or pretentious whatever, but there
Speaker 2: is a version of the world. I went to a
Speaker 2: comic book class taught by Mike Kerry years ago in London,
Speaker 2: and like he said, you know, there's a version of
Speaker 2: the world where in two thousand years somebody finds like
Speaker 2: a full collection of the X Men, right that something,
Speaker 2: and they're like, whoa, this is like sixty seventy eighty
Speaker 2: years of storytelling, and so they assume that those are
Speaker 2: like myths of our time. Oh yeah, yeah, they don't
Speaker 2: necessarily have the context. So even though the whole idea
Speaker 2: of like these are our gods, like we kind of
Speaker 2: sometimes we rag on it or we laugh about how pretentious.
Speaker 1: It is in a way.
Speaker 2: You know, these are stories that we've been telling for
Speaker 2: eighty years, and that's that does have like an impact
Speaker 2: on you know, how people will see us in the
Speaker 2: future or what kind of stories we're telling. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a reason that these stories are so analogous. So
Speaker 2: I think that you should you should keep that one
Speaker 2: in your pocket. This is the first Prometheus combo.
Speaker 1: That's a good one.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that'll be poll quoting you on that because
Speaker 2: it's true. And also like he is always on some
Speaker 2: like unending mission to prove that he's like a good person,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't really matter that he has work that
Speaker 2: he's not like awful, And that's.
Speaker 1: Really I think relatable for all of us.
Speaker 3: All Right, So Rosie gave me the coat sign I'm
Speaker 3: going in with that now, that's my new go in,
Speaker 3: go in.
Speaker 4: That's that's it's happening, you'll be saying, and like every interviews,
Speaker 4: like emailing you, they're like please something.
Speaker 5: Pick a new Greek theater or icon plete.
Speaker 2: Okay, So as a person who loves hip hop and
Speaker 2: like weird shit, I have to and your music stuff
Speaker 2: that you build into comics is always so great. So
Speaker 2: I did want to ask you, aut you know death Grip? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I know that is like there is an old
Speaker 2: Marvel character called death Grip, but like what about your
Speaker 2: version of death Grip?
Speaker 1: And also do you love death Grips?
Speaker 2: Like I just want to could you talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about your villain creation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I you know, I love the concept of death Grip.
Speaker 3: Like some of their songs I can get into, So
Speaker 3: I mean they're not the easiest man to get into,
Speaker 3: but like I love I love what they're about, and
Speaker 3: I like their front Yeah, I love their vibes. Are
Speaker 3: you know no notes in their vibes? Death Grip was
Speaker 3: sort of born out of like a lot of I
Speaker 3: always found villains for characters, like particularly like Deadpool or Punisher,
Speaker 3: where they can like just straight up kill their bad guys.
Speaker 3: Is always very interesting because they never really stick around,
Speaker 3: Like there aren't like a lot of Punisher rogue galleries
Speaker 3: because he just looked forty five in the between their
Speaker 3: eyes and they're done, like you know, and like even
Speaker 3: like earlier Deadpool stuff with like was it t Ray
Speaker 3: and Francis and all those guys, like they stuck around
Speaker 3: for a while, but eventually like he just kills them.
Speaker 3: So like, yeah, I thought it'd be fun to like
Speaker 3: take a care that sort of is upsets with death. Also,
Speaker 3: I was watching a lot of avatars. I was like,
Speaker 3: I love the idea, like a miss. I like the
Speaker 3: idea that they combined like magic with like just martial arts,
Speaker 3: like a guy that My whole idea was like, this
Speaker 3: is a guy that maybe he he went to like
Speaker 3: two years of like magic school for like you know,
Speaker 3: the comotage or whatever the version of that is. And
Speaker 3: he was like, you know, this isn't for me. I'm
Speaker 3: not built for this, but I am really good at
Speaker 3: martial arts. They gonna make my own.
Speaker 2: I've got like mild commentage magic martial art.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm gonna build a cold around this. So
Speaker 3: like that's where it came from, like a guy that
Speaker 3: I think looked cool, had fun powers, and also that
Speaker 3: it's this weird line between like you don't want him
Speaker 3: to be disposable, but like you, I don't think you
Speaker 3: want to hinge Like twenty four issues on like this one,
Speaker 3: like don't, I don't. I think it's very rare. For
Speaker 3: what I mean I'm saying is like I don't know
Speaker 3: if Deadpool is going to have like a green goblin.
Speaker 1: Or Yeah, it's odd because of the nature of Deadpool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like I think a lot of his
Speaker 3: demons have to be internal, So like death Grip was
Speaker 3: a fun way to sort of play with that with
Speaker 3: like a character that's like maybe quasi immortal, but also
Speaker 3: so he does magic, and like it's always fun seeing
Speaker 3: people do like funning like weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't want to see cool hand signs in
Speaker 2: the Marvel universe.
Speaker 3: That's like yeah, yeah, so like that's where he came from,
Speaker 3: and he just sort of gets us into having more
Speaker 3: staple Marvel villain show up later, which I think is
Speaker 3: also really fun, like I'll have a big Goofy villain,
Speaker 3: and death Grip I think is an inch way into
Speaker 3: like Goofy.
Speaker 2: Marvel Magic is a great opening attle to that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. Also, I just I love that he's called
Speaker 2: death Grip because I think a lot about the picture
Speaker 2: that it's like Beyonce death.
Speaker 1: Grips and Robert Pattinson and it's like just.
Speaker 2: This absolutely unsettling wild Why does this exist? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and I feel like that channels a lot of Deathpool energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah, so Zig it was so wonderful to
Speaker 2: have you here. We're going to do one more little bit.
Speaker 2: But first, where can people find you? Where can they
Speaker 2: follow you? Do you have anything else you want to plug?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, check me out on Instagram if you want
Speaker 3: to see mostly pictures of comic book stuff, because I
Speaker 3: think it's really cool to get art in. That's where.
Speaker 3: That's where you'll find me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, shout out your Deadpool lowed a terrible thing
Speaker 2: I've messed.
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, so Oj is fantastic. He's every email
Speaker 3: is like very affectionate, very loving and like like this
Speaker 3: is the cool thing I've ever seen, or like I
Speaker 3: want to draw this. So he's very very fun. I
Speaker 3: love working with him. I love the whole team in general.
Speaker 3: The big fun thing have coming out this year is
Speaker 3: my first creator own graphic novel yeah called Goobers from
Speaker 3: Vault Comics, Hard Comedy. Thank you. It's very fun. It
Speaker 3: was very fun to write, very fun to see the
Speaker 3: pages out, and I think it turned out pretty fun,
Speaker 3: which I'm excited about. So check those things out and
Speaker 3: you know, follow me on Instagram at Yafer Zig.
Speaker 1: Whoo, doude follow Zig. He's very fun. Okay.
Speaker 2: We love to finish every episode with a fast moving segment.
Speaker 2: So today we're gonna do Who's Who, and it's going
Speaker 2: to be me and Zig talking about our favorite Deadpool variants,
Speaker 2: which if you don't know, Deadpool has, like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of Pools. Yeah, and you know you're gonna get
Speaker 2: to see a few of them in the movie. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go because I am as predictable as ever. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go with Deadpool Dinosaur slash Dinosaur Deadpool because it's
Speaker 2: it's like a t Rex but who has all of
Speaker 2: Deadpool's powers and I just love dinosaurs. I also want
Speaker 2: to give a shout out to Headpool.
Speaker 3: Yeah it's just a head.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are two of my favorites.
Speaker 3: I want to give a shout out to dog Pool,
Speaker 3: of course, who is oh very famously. Yeah, he's the legend.
Speaker 3: He did he did a lot for the community, the
Speaker 3: lot of dog Deadpool community also one that seems sort
Speaker 3: of anthethetical to the dead Pool idea. Maybe it's not
Speaker 3: is kid Pool? Like, I love the idea that little mini.
Speaker 1: Dead always makes me laugh.
Speaker 4: I'm like, sure the evil I would love to read
Speaker 4: like a kick cass level like R rated comic.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe now we're doing them with the kind of
Speaker 2: blood Hunt variants you know, yeah, man variants, maybe we
Speaker 2: could get a little kid Pool going around killing everyone.
Speaker 1: Wonderful.
Speaker 2: Thank you again, Zig, so great to have you here.
Speaker 2: So stoke for Goober has definitely come back and talk
Speaker 2: to us.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I'll definitely send you a copy. I think
Speaker 3: you'll really dig it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for our Deadpool and Wolverine
Speaker 2: week and now get out there and see the movie
Speaker 2: and Saturday morning, after you've watched the movie on opening night,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure you will, make sure to come back
Speaker 2: and listen to our reaction on dead Pool and Wolverine,
Speaker 2: and we'll be back to our regularly schedule programming Tuesday
Speaker 2: with our House of the Dragon season two episode seven
Speaker 2: recap with Me and your favorite Master, Jason bye x.
Speaker 6: Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Ecepsion and Rosie Knight
Speaker 6: and is a production of iHeart podcasts Our executive producers
Speaker 6: are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is
Speaker 6: a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mea Taylor.
Speaker 6: Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord. Kenny Goodman
Speaker 2: and Heidi are Discord moderator