1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Fox Nation. Remains of a young mom stuffed in suitcases. 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: It sounds like a horrible movie or some thriller or 5 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: a work of fiction, but in fact, it is a 6 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: horror story dreamed up in the mind of a killer. 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: What happened to twenty eight year old Sarah Zigoul Crime 8 00:00:51,840 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a young mom just 9 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: disappear into thin air? She's at home one moment with 10 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: her little boy, They're in the family home, and then 11 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: suddenly she's gone. And what does that do to a 12 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: child for the rest of their life? I mean, I 13 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: know that after my fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding. 14 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Every day I think my husband or my children could 15 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: just disappear. And I know that's not really going to happen, 16 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: but you live with that thought that not only can 17 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: it happen, it has happened to you. What does that 18 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: do to a little boy that was playing at home. 19 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: Mommy was there and then suddenly she's gone and he 20 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: never sees her again. I can also remember September eleven. 21 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: Of course living in New York working at Court TV 22 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: and that day and the smell in the air, it's 23 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: kind of an electrical burning smell. And for the longest time, 24 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: no flights could fly over the city of Manhattan, New 25 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: York City. So I had a habit of sneaking into 26 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: the workout room at the top of our apartment building 27 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: at night and would exercise in the light of just 28 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: some security lights. And I remember the first time I 29 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: saw a plane go overhead and I was on the trip, 30 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: running on the treadmill and looked up and I immediately 31 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: jumped down and took off because it didn't all register. 32 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: It's something that you live with the rest of your life. 33 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: So what is it going to do to this little boy? 34 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories and you 35 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: are tuned into Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven 36 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: the Triumph Channel. First order of business. Thank you for 37 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: being with us. I'm talking about a beautiful young mom 38 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: of a little boy. Sarah Zigulan with me an all 39 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: star panel to break it apart and put it back 40 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: together again. Troye Layton with me, renowned criminal defense attorney 41 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: joining me out of La Cloyd Steiger thirty six years, 42 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Seattle PD twenty two years homicide detective, author all Seattle's 43 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: Forgotten serial Killer, Gary Jane Grant, And you can find 44 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: Cloyd at Cloyd Steiger dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 45 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. 46 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: My colleague Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned psychologists joining me out 47 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: of Manhattan today, Karen Stark. But right now to Crime 48 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigated reporter Levi Page Levi, Now, don't 49 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: put the cart before the horse. First, tell me about 50 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: Sarah Zigul. Tell me what you know, because you know, 51 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: with every crime you've got to know the victim and 52 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: then you branch out from there to find the evidence. 53 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about Sarah. What do you know? Well, Sarah 54 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: Zigel is twenty eight years old, she's a model, she's 55 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: aspiring actress, and she's living in Aloha, Oregon. She has 56 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: an eight year old, twenty eight aspiring model actress gorgeous. 57 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: I can see that model part. Okay, living in I think, 58 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: go ahead, I'm just aspiring Nancy. I'm looking at her pictures. 59 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: I mean there's photographs on her Instagram. Where she's on 60 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: the runway, she's in some glamorous dresses, she's doing some 61 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: print campaigns. She looks to be like she could be 62 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: very successful at this very attractive young lady. Yeah, she's beautiful. 63 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: So hold on twenty eight. What was I doing when 64 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: I was twenty eight? Let's see here I got an Oh, Okay, 65 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: I was just starting the District Attorney's office in inner 66 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: city Atlanta. Okay, tell me about the little boy in 67 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: the neighborhood leavi Page. It's a residential neighborhood. Nancy very unassuming, 68 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: a very picturesque, and they lived with her family. Joscott Morgan. 69 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: You've been to a lot of death scenes, a lot 70 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: of autopsies, and when you hear someone say unassuming neighborhood, 71 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: that can mean a lot of things. That could mean 72 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: it's low income neighborhood, it's got crime in it once 73 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: it gets dark outside, or it could mean a treeline suburb. 74 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: Unassuming can mean anything, and that's important when you're looking 75 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: for a missing person, because if it's a high crime rate, 76 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: it's more likely they fell victim to crime. Statistically, Yeah, 77 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: it is, and you know, of course, you know that's 78 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: kind of in the eye of the beholder as well? 79 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: How are you going to assess this environment? The thing 80 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: that we have to keep in mind, Nancy, is that 81 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: in all cases, every environment has potential would be very, 82 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: very dangerous. Well I know that, and you know what. 83 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Let me circle back to you leave. What do you 84 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: mean by unassuming? Because what I learned from our research 85 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: is that it was a low crime area and a 86 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: very nice neighborhood. Yes, it's a residential area of suburban 87 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: fill to a very low crime area in Aloha, Oregon. 88 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: You know Cloyd Stiger with me thirty six years SEATTLEPD. Cloyd, 89 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: did I ever tell you about one of my first 90 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: dope cases? And it must have been a trial calendar? 91 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: And I opened the file because the cop was there 92 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: and they would only come to court if you were 93 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: getting ready to go to trial. And I inherited this 94 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: courtman was filling him. Okay, So I opened the file 95 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: and I went, are you kidding me? You want me 96 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: to believe you were in this neighborhood? And the defendant 97 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: came out on the corner and held up a glass 98 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: seen bag of crack at you, and you arrested him. 99 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: Why don't you just take out a billboard on Third Avenue. 100 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: It says, Hi, I'm a joke. Do y'all er please 101 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: arrest me. I don't believe that for one minute. Get 102 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: that out of here. And I dismissed the case because 103 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: I thought, what idiot in their right mind would wave 104 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: a bag of crack. They're about this big, a little bitty, 105 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: like a square inch, and you might have a five rock, 106 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: five dollars, ten rock, ten dollars, twenty rock, twenty dollars 107 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: size of crack, kind of a brownish white. It looks 108 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: almost like a mixture of white and brown sugar and 109 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: a little rock. Then get this Cloyd. Fast forward three months. 110 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm going out am I beat up Honda Smoke, coming 111 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: out from under the hood, going to the same neighborhood 112 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: to try to find a witness. I stop at the 113 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: red light and guess what, Cloyd Stiger, A guy holds 114 00:07:54,760 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: up a glass sea bag a crack. I'm like, so 115 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: what I'm saying It does depend on the neighborhood. It 116 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: does you go missing and you check and you see, 117 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I hear Joe Scott Morgan preaching to the 118 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: choir or Joe Scott that crime can happen in any neighborhood. 119 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: I know that, But the statistics are, if you got 120 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: crime in your neighborhood, you're more likely to have fallen 121 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: prey to a criminal in your neighborhood, as supposed to 122 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: taking off with your boyfriend, like it is assumed by 123 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: so so many times when women go missing. Yeah, you know, 124 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: first of all, never underst me the stupid or to 125 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: give bsiness of a drug dealer. But you're right, it 126 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: depends on your neighborhood, and you would not think there's 127 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: anything necessarily You don't have to really delve into this 128 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: victim's background and what's going on in her life, and 129 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: is there a reason she would live on her own 130 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: and live on her us she's twenty eight? What do 131 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: you mean? Why was she want to live on her own? 132 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: I was living on my own at twenty judging her 133 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: leave on her Okay, okay, you just got to quit 134 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: it on that chart, So, LEVI, I think between myself, 135 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: Joe Scott and Chlode's Tiger, we fought about it long enough, 136 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: nice neighborhood. Nobody just broke into her house and dragged 137 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: her out by her hair. Tell me about the little boy, LEVI, 138 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: how old is he the son eight years old and 139 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: she had a very close relationship with him. This woman, 140 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Zigouel, did not just leave her eight year old 141 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: son behind and vanish no suitcases, missing, no clothing, valuables 142 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: at the home her eight year old boy, her the 143 00:09:38,000 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: love of her life. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For 144 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, I Nancy Grace, this 145 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. You are with us on Fox Nation 146 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: and Sirius XM one eleven Triumph Channel, And again, first 147 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: order of business, thank you for being with us today. 148 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: We're talking about the disappearance of this gorgeous twenty eight 149 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: year old mom, Sarah zigoul And I gotta tell you something. 150 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: Karen Stark joining me from Manhattan. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. 151 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: You know all those trials we covered together very often 152 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: sitting in a dark studio. Remember how I kept telling 153 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: you I want to have children, I want to have 154 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: a family in the face. Well it happened, and you 155 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: were right because you said you think you'll love David, 156 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: you just wait until you have children. What I'm saying 157 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: is no offense David, because I know you're watching Fox 158 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: Nation right now. I love David, but there is nothing 159 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: thing like a mother's love. There is nothing like a 160 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: mother's love. And I do not believe this woman would 161 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: have just up and left her little boy. Karen. I 162 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: don't believe it either, Nancy. I mean, there's no indication 163 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: whatsoever that she would have done that. And if you 164 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: look at the bond between a mother and a child, 165 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: there was nothing wrong with her. She didn't she was 166 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: not psychotics. She loved her little boy, and there is 167 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: no way that this woman would have decided to take 168 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: off and leave her eight year old son. And you 169 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: know what, Levi Page joining me crime online dot Com 170 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. I'm looking right now at some video from 171 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: Koi n and it's showing her. That is a professional shot. 172 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: It looks like she's it's not a barbary scarf, but 173 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: the wind is blowing her hair and it looks to 174 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: be kind of a barbary scarf looking drape around her neck. 175 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: She wasn't just an aspiring model. I mean, that's a 176 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: professional shot. She was. She was a model. So tell me, gosh, 177 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: I haven't even gotten past her scarf in the neighborhood. 178 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: I'm better move this investigation along. Tell me about that 179 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: the time, and if you know the day of the week, 180 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: because that's significant, whether it's a work day when everybody 181 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: else is at work on their nine to five. Was 182 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: it a Saturday, Was it a Saturday night, a Sunday 183 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: morning where crime is less likely to happen. Tell me 184 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: about what we know the mechanics of her disappearance, Nancy. 185 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if I could answer that, because she 186 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: was never reported missing. You know what, You're right? In fact, 187 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: the first thing we know, it's when there is a 188 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: nine one one call, and it's around It's Thursday at 189 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: eleven pm, a nine one one call froming a lowhat 190 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: resident who claims that there was a rucous in a ravine. 191 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: Now cops respond, go with me here, we'll leave my page. 192 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: What if anything do they find in the ravine? They 193 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: find a thirty five year old man, Nancy, that is 194 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: crying and wailing, and they and he has injuries to 195 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: his neck and he's found with a knife. Tell me 196 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: what you know about a BMW and Nancy. Police got 197 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: a telephone call and it was a tip and they said, 198 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: you're going to find a body inside of a black BMW. 199 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: And here is the neighborhood in which this BMW can't 200 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: be found, and police went to the scene with cadaver 201 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: dogs and cadaver dogs alerted to that BMW. Do you 202 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: know when the tip came in? The tip came in 203 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: just a couple of hours after a neighbor in that 204 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: area near where the vehicle was found called and said, 205 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: there's a strange man on my property leaning up against 206 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: a tree. So hours after that tip came in saying 207 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: check this BMW, there could be a dead body inside. 208 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: That's when they got another telephone call from a neighbor saying, 209 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: there's this strange man on my property with injuries on 210 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: him and he's screaming and wailing to Troyce Layton joining me, 211 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: renowned criminal defense attorney out in LA. Defense attorneys hate 212 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: anonymous tipsters, especially when they turn out to be right, 213 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: because if they truly are anonymous and your client goes 214 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: to jail, you can never question the tipster. I guess 215 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: that was a double edged Troy, because you could then 216 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: claim to a jury and unsuspecting jury that it wasn't 217 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: your guy that did it, it was actually the tipster, 218 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: or how else would they have known where the body 219 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: was Anonymous tipsters are also problematic because there's no way 220 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: to cross examine them. You can't to them about how 221 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: they knew what they knew. So just say that you 222 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: can put stuff onto them. But in the I mean 223 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: you can't put stuff onto them, you mean blind them 224 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: instead of your client. Well, if maybe they're culpable, so 225 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: then yes, Nancy. The important thing here is that if 226 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: somebody is calling in with information, that person had to 227 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: have gotten that information from somebody, and if they were 228 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: an innocent bystander, they would give their They wouldn't be 229 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: afraid to give their information. They're identifying information. So back 230 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: to you LEVI page, climb online, dot Com, invest Together 231 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: Report or LEVI. So there's an anonymous tip go check 232 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: out this black BMW. There's a body in it. And 233 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: what happens, and Nancy, what happens is they find the 234 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: body of twenty eight year old Starsycle and she has 235 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: been cut up and dismembered, and she has found in 236 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: sight two suitcases. Jose Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, 237 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: jacksonvill State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet, commonly faunted 238 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: as a death investigator. Joe Scott, did you ever see Dexter. Yes, 239 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: yes I do. I mean who didn't? But you do 240 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: know that Dexter and Mystery Woman got me through my 241 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: very difficult pregnancy. Did you know that? I didn't know that. 242 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: Well you need to know that as a death investigator. 243 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: But okay, wait a minute, here's the rest of that story. 244 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: When I started the Hallmark movies, I said, who's that 245 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: woman that played Mystery Woman she got me through my pregnancy. 246 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: It was Kelly Martin, who was now Haley Dean. Little 247 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: tidbit of information that is irrelevant to this case. But 248 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: dismembering a body, it's not like on Dexter Joe Scott Morgan, 249 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: remember how he'd coat everything in plastic and he'd dismember 250 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: the dead body. Who was always a bad guy that 251 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: just you know, he had vigilante justice ideation. He had 252 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: dismember the body and get rid of it and never 253 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: be seen. Right, it's not like that to dismember a body. Explain, No, 254 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: it's not Nancy. A matter of fact, it's very I 255 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: think it goes without saying, it's a very messy business. 256 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: I worked in morgues in New Orleans and in Atlanta 257 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: and spent a lot of time around bodies being dissected. 258 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: I've dissected bodies, and I have to tell you, Nancy, 259 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: it's not something to be entered into lightly because you 260 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: have to have the right tools and the right skill set. 261 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: And when you're talking about tools for an autopsy, you 262 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: need a saw. Yeah you do, and a lot of 263 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: that is depended upon what kind of saw you choose. 264 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: You just can't run down to the hardware store and 265 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: pick up, you know, a limb saw, for instance, and 266 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: use that the same way we would use what's called 267 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: a striker saw in the morgue, which is a little 268 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: agitated saw. Everybody's seen these in the movie movies. They've 269 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: heard the sound. There's a reason they're much like a castle. 270 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 1: Did you say a striker saw? Striker saw? Yeah, it's 271 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: actually pull that up or pull it up on get 272 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: I kind of see what a striker saw it is. 273 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I've been an autopsy, but I didn't know 274 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: what was a striker saw. What's that? Well, it's a 275 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: it's a handheld saw that is electrically driven. It's got 276 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: a very powerful little electrical motor in it, and it agitates, 277 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: it goes back and forth. If people have ever had 278 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: a cast on their arm. It's very similar to a 279 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: cast saw. Oh yes, it actually looks kind of like 280 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: a drill. It looks like a drill, but on the 281 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: end there's it's a little round end. Is that the 282 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: blade and it goes around and around. Yeah, and it's 283 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: got very very tiny hold on Dear Lord in Heaven. 284 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: I just thought about a striker saw as it relates 285 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: to Sarah Zigoul. Why do you need a striker saw? 286 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: Just curious. Well, the teeth as you can see on 287 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: that saw, or very very tiny, Nancy, And so they 288 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: stay in if you once you start to saw a bone, okay, 289 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: if you're going through bone as opposed to a joint. 290 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: One of the problems is is it's very difficult to 291 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: stay in the groove that you normally start. And you'll 292 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: see people that have never dismembered a body. You'll get 293 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: what are called on the bone itself, that are called 294 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: stop starts. They'll start in one area, the blabe will 295 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: jump out of place, and that's one of the ways 296 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: we can kind of tell how long someone spent attempting 297 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: to do this with a striker saw. The teeth are 298 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: so very tiny that it stays in one continuous group 299 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: and you can work down through the bone. The question 300 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: is when he went to dismember this poor girl's body, 301 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: did he go into the direct shaft of the bone 302 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: or did he do it at the joint? Why do 303 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: I need to know that? Well, we need to know 304 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: that because that goes to skill, the skill level of 305 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: this person. If the person dissected the body, do they 306 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: have any kind of experience relative to this? Okay, ejaculates 307 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: a little green in the face right now, right here 308 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: in the studio, and he started talking about the strikers 309 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: saw and that you need skill. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, 310 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. 311 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, 312 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. My question is 313 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: what can we do about it? I don't want to 314 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: just sit back and report on it. I want to 315 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: take action and I know you must feel the same way. 316 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: And here is the news we have all worked so 317 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: hard to bring to you. Don't be a victim. Fighting 318 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: back against America's crime Wave. A brand new book you 319 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 1: could pre order now to crime online dot com. This 320 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: book is for everyone. It even includes how to stay 321 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: safe while you travel in hotels, if you're abroad, what 322 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: do you do to make sure you come home safely 323 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: to your family? Don't be a victim? Fighting back against 324 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: America's crime Wave available for pre order now crime online 325 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: dot Com. Pre order now and know that portions of 326 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and 327 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace everybody. For those 328 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: of you just joining us on Nancy Grace, this is 329 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: Crime Stories and you are plugged into Fox Nation and 330 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: Serious X one eleven Triumph Channel. Thank you for being 331 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: with us. We're talking about the disappearance and then very 332 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: disturbing death of a young mom twenty eight years old 333 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: Sarah Zagoul. Anonymous tip there is a body and a 334 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: black BMW who they called that in Well, the cops 335 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: get there with cadaver dogs and sure enough there is 336 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: a body in two suitcases. And I'm talking right now 337 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: to death investigator Joseph Scott Morgam So Joe Scott, what 338 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: that means is just let's cut the chase. There is 339 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: one h E L L. You know I gave up 340 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: person when I had the twins. One heck of a 341 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: crime scene somewhere, probably a secondary or tertiary scene, because 342 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: she had to be taken from the home, she had 343 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: to be murdered, and then she had to be dismembered, 344 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: so and then put back in the suitcases in the 345 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: BMW and left. So we've got four crime scenes. But 346 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: wherever that dismemberment scene is, that's got a lot of evidence. 347 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yes, it does. And it's not just blood, Nancy. 348 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: When you think about this, and I don't want to 349 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: go too far few with a crusive nature to examine it, 350 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: we have to think about this. Not only are you 351 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: talking about, say, for instance, like blood, we're talking about 352 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: things like bone dust for instance, because is literally yeah, 353 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: there are little chips and bone that are generated from 354 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: this and they can blow about, just like you think 355 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: about wood and a carpenter's shop. And those are the 356 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: types of things that we look for at the scene. 357 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: Not to mention the things we can't see with the 358 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: unaided eye, for instance, like DNA trace elements of DNA, 359 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: And when you're manipulating a body, did he disrobe the 360 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: body or did he try to cut through clothing. I've 361 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: actually seen people try to cut through clothing to dismember 362 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: a body. If you do that, then you've got fibers, 363 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: you've got hair that's left behind, and it's very frenzied. 364 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: There are any number of accounts of people attempting to 365 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: dismember bodies and they get right into the middle of it, Nancy, 366 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: and they say, what in the world am I doing? 367 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: And they realize what a herculean task this is setting 368 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: before them. And then how are they going to get 369 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: rid of the body? Because now you've dismembered a body, 370 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: You've just created more evidence as opposed to one intact body. 371 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: You've got multiple items that you have, and then not 372 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: only that, taking the body and putting it in two 373 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: suitcases in a black BMW, driving the BMW and leaving 374 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: it abandoned. Cloyd Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty 375 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: two years, homicide. Have you ever seen a dismemberment, Cloyd, 376 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: I've actually had several and just the Scott's exactly right. 377 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: That are most of the ones that you've had. Several dismemberments, yeah, 378 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: well yeah, or attempted I should say several attempted dismembers. 379 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: A couple of complete but most of the Pemy's right. 380 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: They stopped because it's so much harder than they think 381 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, you know what, I'm glad you said that, 382 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: because whoever did this was hell bent on dismembering this 383 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: young mom. Hell bent because my point and we got 384 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: far afield and I blame you, Jeff Scott Morgan, but 385 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: I gotta say I egged you on who did this 386 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: the frame of mind required to not only commit a murderer, 387 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: but then go through carry through with a dismemberment. And 388 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: Leavi Page, where was the little eight year old boy 389 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: all this time at the house. Yes, he was at 390 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: home with his grandparents because his mother they all lived 391 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: in the family home. Okay, so she lived. Okay, I'm 392 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: glad you told me that. So he wasn't there alone. 393 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: He was with her mom and dad. They all lived together. Yo. 394 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: K Yeah, you know, Leavi Page, My mom has lived 395 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: with us since my dad went to heaven, and she's 396 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: certainly a handful. But I'm so glad that my children 397 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: are getting to be around her. So he was not 398 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: left alone wandering in the home. You know, Karen Stark, 399 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: I've said so many times we covet that which we see, 400 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons I A. I hate shopping, 401 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: as you know, but there have been times I've gone 402 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: into a mall and I'm like, what is art? What 403 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: is this? I haven't even seen that because I hate 404 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: shopping so much. I think that's They're a very tried 405 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: and true tenant in criminal law. We covet that which 406 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: we see. If we don't see it, we don't covet it. 407 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: It goes all the way back to David and Bathsheba. 408 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: Remember that one. Yes, he wouldn't have even been party 409 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: to murder if he hadn't seen Bathsheba taken a bath 410 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: on a rooftop and wanted to marry her, to put 411 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, ephemistically, and had her husband killed. You don't 412 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: covet that which you don't see. Have you ever heard 413 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: that before? Karen start I had heard that, Nancy, And 414 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,239 Speaker 1: in that frame of mind, take a listen to our 415 00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: friend Bob Hey at ka TU two. This investigatives shouldn't yesterday, 416 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: Why deputy say they got a nine one one call 417 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: and found a woman's body in a car just a 418 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: few blocks from here. This photo from the Washington County 419 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office shows the car officers found with the body 420 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: of twenty eight year old Sarah Zgoul of Aloa inside. 421 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: Authorities wouldn't confirm reports that Zagul's body had been dismembered 422 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: and put inside the car's trunk. Deputese came to the 423 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: spot where the car was found on Thursday after a 424 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: nine one one caller contacted the Sheriff's office worried that 425 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: someone had been killed the site where the car was found. 426 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: He's just three blocks from the house searched by investigators 427 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: all day Friday. Those are my neighbors right next door, 428 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: the really nice people. We see them every day. Wrene 429 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: Triplett knows the couple that lives in the house and 430 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: saw them with investigators outside the home Friday morning, but 431 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: she hasn't seen their adults son since the investigation began. 432 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: He lived there as far as I know, I think 433 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: since last summer, kind of when I started seeing him. 434 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: But yeah, other than that, I don't really know much 435 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: about him. Well. The Sheriff's office confirms a man is 436 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: in custody in connection with their investigation. They haven't said 437 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: who he is. They also haven't said what evidence led 438 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: from the car where serves as Agoul's body was found 439 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: Thursday to this home three blocks away from where that 440 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: car was parked, and that was Myrene Shiplet and Christine 441 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: Siross talking about a neighborhood home her parents lived with 442 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: a grown son, a thirty five year old male. Guys, 443 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: I want you to also take a listen to KPTV 444 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: Fox twelve reporter Jamie Wilson, keeping in mind that tried 445 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: and true, we covet that which we see. Listen. It 446 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: all started with a tip they got yesterday. Well, horrible 447 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: and shocking, but as I just mentioned to you, with 448 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: crap that's going on everywhere, it seems like it's just 449 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: not too surprising that Mike McHugh was at home in 450 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: Iloa last night when deputies converged on his neighborhood. Cops 451 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: say they got a tip about a murder, leading them 452 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: to Southwest Saralla and Hargus Street. That's where they found 453 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: this BMW and a woman's body in the trunk. The 454 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: victim is twenty eight year old Sarah's a Ghoul from Iloa. Then, 455 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: around eleven pm, police say they found the suspect near 456 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: the intersection of Teel and Murray Boulevard and they took 457 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: him into custody. Neighbors can hardly believe it because you're 458 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: always seeing this kennething happening else where are you? You 459 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: wonder if anything like this is ever gonna affect your life, 460 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: And then something like this happens and you can start 461 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: wondering even more. Now. Sarah's Agoul's Facebook page says she 462 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: was a model actress and she went to PSU. Now 463 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: neighbors want to know how and why her life ended here. 464 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: How did her life end? Why did her life end there? 465 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: Two Levi page claim online dot Com investigative reporter Levi 466 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: just one question. How far away was the BMW from 467 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: Sarah Zigoul's home she shared with her parents and son 468 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: half a block? Half a block? And that tells me 469 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: very clearly that her killer lived in that neighborhood. He 470 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: knew her habits, he knew her schedule. How many times 471 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: had he watched her go in and out of the home? 472 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome back, everybody. I Nancy Grace, 473 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories and you are watching Fox Nation 474 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: and listening to Serious XM one eleven. Thanks for being 475 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: with us. You know, when you pass your neighbor in 476 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: the street or in your apartment building in Manhattan. You 477 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: usually don't think anything odd about them or suspicious of them. 478 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: In fact, you see them every day. But isn't it 479 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: so true to Joseph Scott Morgan and our line of business. 480 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: It's those very people. I mean, you start a homicide 481 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: investigation with the really the love partners, husband ex husband, boyfriend, 482 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: ex boyfriend. Then you move to other family, then you 483 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,239 Speaker 1: move to neighbors, then you moved to co workers. You 484 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: move out in that order for statistically sound reasons. So 485 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: maybe we should be looking sideways at our neighbor, Oh 486 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: you're not, kid and Nancy, and also those that immediately 487 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: have very intimate contact with those that you know statistics 488 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: talk about. You know, you're more You're more risk with 489 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: a person you're laying in bed next to than you're 490 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: you know, a total stranger that you've never met. You know, 491 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: I met your wife and I just don't think and 492 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure she wouldn't stab you in the night. But 493 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure she wouldn't. Joe Scott, guys, take a 494 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: list to our friends at Portland KOI and Jennifer Dowling, 495 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: still trying to process this disturbing crime. The home that 496 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: sits behind me. It doesn't sit far from Sarah's house. 497 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: It is still surrounded by police tape, and it was 498 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: the scene of a massive investigation earlier today. You never 499 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: would expect that to happen to somebody that you know. 500 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: Sarah's a Gel's friend say. She was outgoing, in friendly, 501 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: always ready to brighten the room. She was very funny person. 502 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: Everybody knew her and her whole family. Gregory grew up 503 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: ten minutes from her house. He said, the teams in 504 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: this neighborhood formed a tight knit group throughout high school. 505 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I just feel so bad for her family. The twenty 506 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: eight year old was an aspiring model and actress. Her 507 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: friend and photographer Lester's Side took these photos of her. 508 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: He says it was something she really enjoyed doing. Others 509 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: tell us she had a young son that meant everything 510 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: to her. Nobody knows if it was like a stranger, 511 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: if it was like somebody close to her. It's like, 512 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm scary. WT say they found her body 513 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: in the BMW after receiving a tip the idea suspect 514 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: and eventually picked him up last night near Southwest Murray 515 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: Boulevard and teel not that far from the home that 516 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: was under investigation. Today they found the guy lown down 517 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: by the little creek down here, Gabors say, the people 518 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: that live in the house are quiet and there's never 519 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: been any sign of trouble before this. Guys, I want 520 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: you to listen to Katu to anchor Steve Dunn, but 521 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: first to Leavipage climb online dot Com investigative report. Wait 522 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: hold on, LEVI, let me go to Troy s Letton. Troy, 523 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: I want you to take off your defense hat just 524 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: one moment, because you've no offense, really been around the block. 525 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: You tried a lot of cases on the other side 526 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: of the fence from me. How often is it that 527 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: we see defendants and victims from the same neighborhood. They 528 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: know each other, even if just by sight, they know 529 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: each other. And in this case, how many times do 530 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: you think this perr and yes I'll call him a PERV, 531 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: had watched her go in and out, maybe in the 532 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: front yard, playing with her little boy, bringing in the groceries. 533 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: She had no idea he was watching her. Probably he 534 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: watched her thousands of times. And oftentimes we see in 535 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: cases like this where the people know each other, and 536 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: that's why police investigators first try to exclude every single 537 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: person that's within the victims orbit. And here this suspect 538 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: was entirely within her orbit, and he had probably been 539 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: watching her, her Fami, Emily, her interactions with their children, 540 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: possibly boyfriends or other suitors. Had that pushed him over 541 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: the edge in and out of her life right, and 542 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: that may have made him cove it what he couldn't have. First, 543 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Cloyd Steiger thirty six years 544 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: Seattle PD. You know, peeping tom is typically a misdemeanor, 545 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: it's not a felony, so I never prosecuted any peeping tom's. 546 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: But Cloyd, this is what I noticed. When I would 547 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: finally get a case that I would take to trial 548 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: and obviously be a felony, I would find peeping Tom 549 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: in the rap sheet either allegations, and there'd usually be 550 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: several of them. And I'm certainly not a shrink. We've 551 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: got care and start for that. But Cloyd, there's something 552 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: about these guys that spy on neighbors, that watch them, 553 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: that peep into homes or dressing rooms, just peeping Tom's. 554 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: I don't know that, psyche, but they graduate, Lloyd, they graduate, 555 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: there's something about their psyche. Yeah, they do that, just 556 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: that you know, we always consider those stepping stone crimes 557 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: when they're young, and they work their ways up to 558 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: maybe grabbing or you know, for tage or one of 559 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: those type crimes. And eventually, what did you say, grabbing 560 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,479 Speaker 1: or what what was the other one for? Tag? For tage, 561 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: rubbing your body and someone in a crowded elevator, or 562 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, for sexual arousal of yourself. Okay, let's just 563 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: stop place. Just don't want to hear about that. I'm 564 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: talking about murder and rape that they graduated, that some 565 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: freaking the elevator rubbing against you. I'm talking about a 566 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: violent crime they graduate. Have you ever seen that? Oh? Yeah, 567 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: Karen start What is that Kloyd is is a cop 568 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: and an author I'm just a trial lawyer. What is 569 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: that phenomena that you want to peak on somebody you 570 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: don't even know? Well, you're really enjoying the anonymity of 571 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: it now, And it's definitely a personality disorder and somebody 572 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: who can become a killer because they are really thrilled 573 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: with the idea that they don't have to at first 574 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: have the closed contact and they can just view the 575 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: other person. And he did make a good point, which 576 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: is that if you begin to you know, cut it 577 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: up to somebody and know they're try and touch them, 578 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: that's the next step to actually wanting to touch themboddy 579 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 1: grab them. He just gave me a thought because can 580 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: you even imagine he's been watching her all this time 581 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, maybe going on dates, maybe with her 582 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: little boy, coming in and out of the car, and 583 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: then when he finally approaches her, can you imagine her reaction. 584 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure she wanted nothing to do with him. Guys, 585 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Steve Donne at Katu too. 586 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: The convicted felons suspected of killing it A Rolla mother 587 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: is due in court tomorrow. Thirty five year old Jeremiah 588 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: Johnston is being held in the Washington County Jail without 589 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: bail tonight. This follows nearly a week in the hospital 590 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: before he was booked. Johnson is accused of killing twenty 591 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: eight year old Sarah Zagoul. He's charged with her murder 592 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: and abuse of a corpse. Our main priority is making 593 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: sure to do the really through investigation day we honor 594 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: her legacy and bring closure and justice with the family. 595 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: Her body was found inside a car last Thursday, less 596 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: than a half mile from her house on one hundred 597 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: and seventy first Place. Johnston has been in and out 598 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: of jail since twenty eleven, and most recently last September. 599 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 1: Investigators have not released details about Johnson's charges nor how 600 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: he got those marks on his neck. Oh, please leavi page. 601 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: Did he cline? He was trying to kill himself and 602 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: then he went to the hospital for a week. Yes, 603 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: when police responded to the neighbor that said, there's a 604 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: strange man in our backyard leaning against the tree, yelling. 605 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: He had a knife to his throat and he threatened 606 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: to kill himself a police. But he was holding himself hostage. Yes, yes, okay, 607 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, please help me. He's holding himself hostage 608 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: with a knife. And have you how many times to 609 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: kill her? Say? Oh, I meant to kill myself. Oh, 610 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: then how do you explain the dead body in the 611 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: two suitcases? How could you pull that off? But you, 612 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, have you ever seen this before? Oh? I've 613 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: never well, I've had people killed himself. Yes, absolutely, but 614 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: this is kind of bizarre. How do you hold yourself 615 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: hostage with a knife. I guess he's threatening to cut 616 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: his own throat. It's kind of bizarre. And answer, so 617 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: LEVI page you bring me up today? Where does it 618 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: stand right now? So Nancy. He was arrested and he 619 00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: was charged with murdered desecration to a corpse. He has 620 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: a criminal record that involves possession of cocaine, drug dealing, cocaine, 621 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: meth anthetamine. He was a felon. He was arrested one 622 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: time for being in possession of a firearm. But here 623 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: is what happened. He was arrested, charged with murder. And 624 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: when he was behind bars, he knew the person that 625 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: called in the tip because he confessed to someone else, 626 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: a friend of his named Jeremy Mooney, and he became 627 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: friends with a police officer behind bars, an ex police 628 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: officer disgraced. This police officer was charged with soliciting a 629 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: minor online for sex, and he confessed to him. He says, 630 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: I killed this girl. You know. We were hanging out 631 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: and then I tied her up. She got loose and 632 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: we got into an argument and I pushed her down 633 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: the stairs. She started vomiting, so I told her to 634 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: take a shower, and while I was in the shower, 635 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: I grabbed a knife. While she was in the shower, 636 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,919 Speaker 1: I grabbed a knife and then slid her throat. And 637 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: this police officer took notes and turned his notes into 638 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: law enforcement, and police just didn't take this what we 639 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: call a snitch for their word. They actually went to 640 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 1: the jail, to the wreck area where this conversation had 641 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: taken place, and they got video of it. Nancy, there's 642 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: no sound, but you can see Jeremy Johnston motioning with 643 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: his hands slicing a throat. He did that to his 644 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: own throat, and you can see him describing how he 645 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: killed this young woman to stop. You know, I note 646 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: that you're accurate. Beat. When I think about the eight 647 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: year old little boy and this guy, Jeremiah Johnson's lies 648 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: about what happened. Even I sometimes get oversaturated with violent crime. 649 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: I can here's the good news. Jeremiah Johnson sentenced to life. 650 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: And I've got one word for you, Johnson, rot in hell. 651 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime story signing off, goodbye friend,