WEBVTT - NOLAN WELLS: ALTERCATION WITNESS EMERGES? 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:10.039 Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Nolan Wells investigation into 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:16.720 the death of a Shining Star Nolan Wells has an altercation. 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:23.480 Witness emerged a witness that claims she saw an altercation 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:29.080 at Horn Island good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.760 Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:43.360 A Nolan Wells phone evidence torpedo. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:49.000 Two confirmed witnesses that saw Nolan Wells on the island 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:54.520 around six pm. The triton, as you said, left around 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:55.360 four thirty. 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:57.680 What witnesses where? 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:58.080 Who? 0:00:58.120 --> 0:00:59.800 What, where, why and when? 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.240 I have not spoken publicly about this before, but I 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.000 witnessed an altercation involving Nolan Wells from a boat nearby. 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.640 What I saw has stayed with me, and I believe 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.280 it's important information. I have provided or intend to provide 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:17.600 my account to the appropriate investigators because Nolan's family deserves 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.840 the truth. Out of respect for the ongoing investigation, I 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.080 won't speculate beyond what I personally observed. While I was 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.800 on the boat near the area, I witnessed an altercation 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.399 involving Nolan Wells and several other individuals. I saw what 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.400 appeared to be an argument that escalated after there was 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.560 a dispute involving Nolan's phone. I heard Nolan yelling for 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.399 his phone to be returned. The argument continued after the 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.920 group reached Sore and I observed a physical fight involving 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.800 Nolan and multiple people. I also observed a young woman 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.320 telling them to stop. At that point, I left the 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.880 area because the situation had appeared to be getting worse. 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.840 I did not remain long enough to witness what happened afterward. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.960 Everything beyond what I personally observed would be speculation, so 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:09.480 I cannot honestly say what occurred after I left. Then 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.240 she said she messaged one of the individuals that she saw. Hey, 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.360 I just want to say I was a passenger on 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.160 another boat and I saw the argument between you guys, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.240 and we'll go to the police with this information. I 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.800 also have video footage my husband doesn't show much, but 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.000 it shows the argument that was taken and how you 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.880 guys were upset at Nolan because of the young lady. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:38.120 That from secret Service. Sam on TikTok okay, how is 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:43.200 this helping the investigation. I'm trying to make sense of 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:49.639 so many people online making comments. Now, if this is true, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.519 if there is a witness who has a husband with 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.240 her on the boat, and they took a certain amount 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:02.480 of video. It could change everything, especially if the video 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.640 is time stamped straight out to veteran trial lawyer at 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.359 defense attorney Philip Dubay joining me. He's joining us out 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.760 of LA formerly in the Public Defender's office. They try 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:22.280 a ton of cases, Philip. First of all, has she 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.320 turned it into police? She said she was. If she hasn't, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:31.360 I give her no credibility at all. Look, I want 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.120 this to be true. Why because I want the video. 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.360 I want to see the time stamp on the video. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.120 I want to see was he still on Horn Island 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.120 at four point thirty when his acquaintance is on the 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.440 Triton boat left? I want that video. And if she 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.240 hasn't brought this forward to l E law enforcement, then 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.840 it means nothing to me. I mean, if I know 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.720 a young man turns up dead in the water, and 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.720 I know there's a controversy surrounding this, I mean, we 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.320 know she knows that because she's gone online and posted it, 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.160 then why not hand it over to police? 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.360 Agreed, and it should go to the grand jury for 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.040 part of their investigation. But I got to tell you 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.640 if I were cross examining her, should this even go 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.279 to trial? The first question I'd asked her on that 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.680 fourth of July what she had been drinking before that 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.200 video got activated? 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.720 Everybody would want to work him up. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:27.599 How many people were play? 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.320 Have you lost your mind? You defend criminal cases. I 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.479 bet everybody you put on the stand has either been high, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:41.880 drunk or worse during the altercation. Every witness is not 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.160 a nun, a priest, or a virgin. Everybody on Horn 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.279 Island was drinking. Man, what are you talking about. I 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.320 don't care if she took a drink. I want the video. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:51.480 You want the truth? 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:52.800 Is what you want? 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.279 You want the truth? And yeah, and that would be 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.920 the video, remember Nancy. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:03.640 Okay, but it's not consistent. Brandon Tatum is joining us. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.240 So after all that, all you have to say is 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.200 was she drinking? That's what that's your takeaway from that? 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.520 Joining me is Brandon Tatum forign police Officer Tucson now 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:22.080 star of the Officer Tatum on YouTube, who famously has 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.600 interviewed the acquaintances, who all say they had nothing to 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.760 do with it. Let's just put that out there. He's 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.520 interviewed them extensively. I want to talk about not what 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.840 you want to talk about, Brandon Tatum, which is they 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:35.720 had nothing to do with this because I met them 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:40.200 and I believe them, so noted. Can we talk about 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.159 a potential witness to an altercation and she seems to 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:49.760 suggest it was over Katie. Why don't know what the 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.800 altercation was. Maybe it was hey, leave her alone and 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.680 get on the boat, or leave her alone, she's my girlfriend, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:01.080 or it could be anything. But if there is a 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:06.040 witness placing Nolan seemingly in the water, I can't tell that. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:11.320 But having an argument with another person, a partier at 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.680 Horn Island, that is significant. It could prove or disprove 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.200 your friend's timeline. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.000 Well, Nancy, I think that it's a big obstacle to 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.080 climb here because I've never heard of this altercation whatsoever. 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.960 Nobody that I've talked to have alluded that this altercation 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.960 was real, and alsow Katie, whom I saw her text messages, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.760 she didn't even say this altercation occurred. What I will 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.440 say is that if I was an investigator in this investigation, 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:42.680 I want to hear that. I want to be able 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:44.760 to compare that information to other things that we may 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.360 have other witness statements, but I don't think it's significant 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.400 because it doesn't show if Nolan Wells was actually killed 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.200 in that altercation. She's claiming that there was an altercation 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.160 between him arguing with somebody else. There was a potential fight, 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.839 but that doesn't get me to how did he drown, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.760 how did he get in the water, and how did 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.120 he not recover and come home. 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:05.600 To his family. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.600 So I would take that into consideration, I would compare 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:14.000 that to the other with interviews that I've done, but 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.840 I don't think it's significant whatsoever. However, I would be 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.360 incredibly skeptical because there's no other statements that I've heard 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.440 from anybody that comes even close to an altercation with 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.360 Nolan Wells and others over a girl. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:37.680 Number one, He's dead shortly after an alleged altercation with 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:45.520 another male we think over a woman. See in my world, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:50.680 I put together both circumstantial and direct evidence. Direct evidence 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:55.400 would be, for instance, DNA or a fingerprint. Circumstantial evidence 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.920 is the timing of the alleged altercation and his death. 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:06.360 Right there's some kind of altercation on Horn Island just 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.520 before he dies, and they were. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.640 Well Nancy she's not saying he lost the fight. She's 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.880 not saying that he got beat up. If you look 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.960 at the autopsy, there's no clear signs of blunt force 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.880 trauma to his face or any of the vital areas 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.400 that could kill him. So it doesn't appear that there 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.960 is any indication that he lost a fight, that there 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.200 was enough trauma in this particular fight that would lead 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.320 to his death. And when you look at the autopsy, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.480 there is no blunt force trauma to his face. There 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.520 is no lacerations or damages to the back of his head. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.640 This is rettness that was underneath the skin. 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.040 Are you looking at the spring because I'm looking at 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:44.880 a big red mark on the back of his head. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:46.400 Yeah, but this is underneath the skin. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.160 This is not a big red gash that's in the 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.839 back of his head, which would be consistent with blunt 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.560 force trauma. This is something that occurred underneath the skin 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.280 that could have been from pooling of blood after his 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.480 death due to you know, Okay, to explain some I 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.679 got it. I don't want I'll let the experts talk 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.800 about specifics, but it doesn't appear. 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.080 Let's do that. But I want everyone to understand why 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:14.120 Officer Tatum is here. Officer Tatum and Philip Debay and 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.600 others on our panel tonight are taking a particular side right. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.440 It's called cross examination, and it is similar to what 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:27.719 happens in court. A theory emerges, a line of questioning emerges, 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:32.599 and the other side tested with fire under cross examination, 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.000 and then hopefully you get to the truth. Right now, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:40.160 we're talking about an alleged eyewitness to an altercation just 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.800 before Nolan Wells is dead. If she has not handed 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:46.719 this over to the police, it doesn't mean a hill 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.920 of beans to me. But Tatum has a good idea 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.880 and that is, let's let an expert discuss it to 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.520 Joseph Scott Morgan, death Investigator, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:04.000 You can see him now on a hit podcast. It's 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:09.040 on YouTube Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan Joe Scott. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.680 If there had been not a blunt force trauma that 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:17.280 Officer Tatum is describing, but a fist fight, If there 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:21.600 had been a fist fight plus body in water for 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:29.680 multiple days, body decomposition, would you expect to see red 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.240 marks on the hands at that juncture on the face, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.960 what would you expect if there had been a fisticuffs. 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:42.200 Yeah, you would see well, first off, above discolored areas 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.840 like consistent with contusions. If there are facial strikes or 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.360 just body blows, you can actually see a braided areas 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:55.559 over the surface of his fingers. And these are very 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.920 subtle sometimes and if there is decomposition, which we believe 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.680 there is, particularly or the second autopsy that was performed, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.880 he didn't make note of this. And can I go 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.480 one more step with this? And this is kind of graphic, 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.920 but people need to understand this. This physician that did 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.480 the second autopsy actually did what's referred to as a 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:21.480 coronal sectioning of the face. So there were multiple incisions 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:26.400 made into Nolan's face in this autopsy, this second autopsy, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.920 and this guy didn't see anything. He didn't see anything 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:37.559 that was of import relative or indicative of blunt force trauma. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.600 And I would think that if there was contact, particularly 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.120 if he's fighting a group of people these sorts of things, 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.160 you're gonna have injuries probably on the leading leading edges 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.280 or what we refer to as the blade of the 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.959 arm right here on the forearm, the back of the hands, 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.240 the knuckles as points of contact, and certainly if there's 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.880 facial strikes going on with him, which we find would 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.800 force trauma many times with fisticuffs, as you say, you'll 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.160 see these strikes, You'll see you'll see marks on the face. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.520 There's nothing to indicate that in the second autopsy. Now 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.679 what the state has I don't know, but I do 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.440 know this. I know they're saying they're done with the 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:20.200 autopsy and it's complete, which means the gross findings and 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.120 the autopsy room, the tox the histology. That means that 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.079 that autopsy report is complete. They just hadn't released their 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.840 findings yet. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:45.480 Crime Stories with Nancy Gray, the autopsy is complete. There 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:52.400 are reports that there is no cocaine in no one's 0:12:53.000 --> 0:13:01.040 system as uncorroborated reports, but a good source no cocaine 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:07.600 in the system, Joe Scott. When the body has been 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.520 in the elements such as the water for that long, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:15.520 how can I confirm if he had been drinking or not. 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.679 Oh, you can still pull a ba blood alcohol or 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.880 blood ethanol level as it's referred to. And again, Nancy, 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.920 we're not talking about someone that has been down for 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.440 weeks and weeks. We can still do the ba UH 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.360 and it can come from urine blood. We can still 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.600 draw urine uh and find it pretty effectively. Uh, you'll 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.520 have what's referred to as qualitative We've talked about this before, 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.720 and I know you understand that, but so so our 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.400 friends understand. You have a qualitative amount which they say, yes, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.439 it is present, and then you have a quantitative amount 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.680 where they do the measurement of the BAC. Uh, the 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.320 blood alcohol content. You know, just think about d w I, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.000 d U I, wherever you're from. Uh, you know, those 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.720 those levels and we get up to those lethal levels. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.079 That's really what I'm interested in relative and yeah, I'm 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.280 interested in any of the other toxicological findings you might 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:13.360 have relative to anything liiccit or illicit drugs, but particularly 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.320 with alcohol, because that has been kind of this thing 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.680 that has been said over and over and over again. Well, 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.840 let me see it. I want to know what the 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.840 blood alcohol level was like, and historically, I would like 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.560 to know what his level of experience has been with alcohol, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.200 as you well know because of the cases you've worked 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.960 on in the past. Nancy, if you're a lightweight, if 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.240 you've never had anything to drink, and you start taking 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.120 on copious amounts of alcohol, you know, and you're kind 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.800 of a neophyte in this area. It can have very 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.320 very lethal outcomes. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.160 Well, let me understand Joe Scott Morgan joining US Star 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.240 body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan on YouTube and Death Investigator. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.800 When I'm asking you, even if the body has been 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.880 in the elements for a period of days, can I 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.160 still get a blood alcohol? Maybe not from urine, but 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.920 you certainly can't do a blow test. But can you 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:14.040 take human tissue from one of the organs and extract 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.239 a blood alcohol from human tissue? 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.120 It'd be very difficult. Generally, the lever the liver is 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.000 the best candidate will spin that down. We'll take a 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.800 section of it, spin it down and liquefy it. But again, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.120 I submit to you, Nancy, that he has not been 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:35.520 down long enough to compromise the ability to get at 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.920 least a quantitative amount. Yeah, to get a ba okay. 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.480 To Philip Dubay joining me, a veteran trial lawyer defense 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.040 attorney out of the LA jurisdiction, I'm not quite sure 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.320 why you're so focused on who had been drinking. Take 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.280 a look at the video. Let me answer that for you. 0:15:52.680 --> 0:16:00.760 Everybody was drinking. Okay, everybody had a snoopfull, So even 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:07.920 someone drinking can see an altercation. Debay, Oh of course 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:08.280 she can. 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.600 And I can see that crowd of people out there. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.520 It was a bustling hot Fourth of July afternoon. But 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.600 who's to say that the people that she saw included 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.240 Nolan Wells. And that's why you got to get into 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:25.520 her ability to perceive and recollect being impacted by intoxicants 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.360 such as alcohol. I would want to know if she 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:33.359 had imbibed. I really would not to mention the autopsy 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.520 findings thus far do not reflect any type of physical 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.680 insults or injury to his body. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:40.240 At most, what you. 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.920 Have are asking you about your fixation on the witness 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.480 having been drinking. Joe Scott Morgan has already addressed the 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.440 body I'm talking to you about the alleged witness. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.960 Yeah, if she had in fact been drinking, I do 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.000 believe unless they really have a video showing him an 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.720 HD quality showing that he was in a fight, then 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:08.000 I would call her ability to perceive, recollect, and even 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.480 state that there was an altercation going on in her presence. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:12.320 You know. 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.280 Brandon Tatum joining US Officer Tatum on YouTube. I've cross 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.640 examined a lot of witnesses, and I cross examined them 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.359 exactly on that. How far away were you, did you 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.439 know the target, were you familiar with them? Was your 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:33.159 vision obstructed by anything? Were you wearing glasses, were you 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.359 wearing sunglasses? What time of the day. I mean, I 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.119 could go on on them, but unless you have a 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.879 nun appriest or a virgin on the stand, or maybe 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:46.520 Angel Gabriel might come down and testify, you have to 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.520 take your witness as you find them. And I'm sure 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.879 you've had a lot of drunk witnesses in Tucson to 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.879 everything from a bar fight to a murder to a 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.919 dope deal. Look, I'd say a good fifty percent of 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.239 witnesses were drunk at one time or the other. That 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.080 doesn't mean they didn't see what they saw. 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.439 Well from a law enforcement perspective, you know, this is 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.120 not cross examination on the stand. This is us what 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.119 I would deal with with the witnesses right on the scene, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.919 and I don't I'm not too concerned of whether the 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.480 person is drunk or not. I'm not going to test 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.760 their blood alcohol level on the scene. I want to 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.919 know specifically, what did you see, what are the identifying 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.359 markers that you have to say that this is Nolan. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.080 If that person can describe them, maybe we'll do a 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.320 show up. If we have like a video, a picture 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:35.960 or something we could show them and say, hey, does 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.160 this match the person you think that was here, then. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.560 We'll have a good perspective. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.480 But there is a challenge here because you do have 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.800 to identify him. You can't just say it was a 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.080 black man out there with curly hair and I think 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.040 it was Nolan. You know, you're going to have to 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.439 have some clear identifying markers that you know this is Nolan, 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.399 and then you have to identify the people he was 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.119 fighting with and the girl. And I think this person 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:00.680 is going to have a big chain challenge. I saw 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.000 this text message. We reached out to the girl on 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.400 our social media. She never responded to us. I don't 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.400 know if she ever really sent it in to the police, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.440 but it is problematic in my opinion if she hasn't 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.480 if you're going to say somebody is going to spend 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.520 time in jail, or you are alluding to the fact 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.439 they've committed a crime, and the fact now that we 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.800 know that Nolan did not survive being out there at 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.720 Horn Island and you never submitted that to law enforcement. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.000 There's a potential that that's tampering with evidence. If you 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.080 have evidence of a crime and you're withholding that from 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.400 law enforcement and you knowingly and intentionally are doing that, 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.520 that could be very problematic for a person who claimed 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:35.040 to be a witness. 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:41.120 Now, now, morally it's wrong, but there is no duty 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:45.400 under the law that you have to report yourself as 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.960 a witness, that you have to volunteer information. You can 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:50.639 stand on the side of a pool and watch somebody 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.000 drown and do nothing unless you have a fiduciary capacity. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.000 And yet it's not a crime in our jurisprudence. So 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:03.160 nothing is compelling her under the low to come forward. However, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:09.560 interesting she did post it, she did identify herself, She 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.240 did say she was going to police, and that would 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.960 be my first line of cross. Did you take this 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.879 to the police? And if she said no, all h 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.919 double l would break breakout in that courtroom. If you 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.720 have information like this and you don't go to the police. Now, 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.760 would fly for woold fly? You ever seen a dogfight? 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.360 That's what I mean by that. For would fly? So 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.520 that would be a line across exam, hold on something 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.720 else before I go out to Susan Hendrix, Jeff Schuttler, 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:48.919 and Ben Dobrin. Now information that there is in fact 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:50.720 a criminal investigation. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.359 Hearing that somebody who has an inside source is saying 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.359 the DA's office in Mississippi is now looking at the 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.439 Nolan Will's case as a criminal investigation and no longer 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.359 an accidental drowning. Now we can only pray that this 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:11.840 is true. Obviously we can't, you know, we can't celebrate. 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.000 We can't get excited at all, because I have not 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.600 seen Ben Crump announces. It is not being reported by 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:22.240 any other major media sources. But there are rumblings. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.520 From Sam Krupin. All right. I would like to point 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:35.480 out that his source is a quote Little Birdie at 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:41.199 Little Birdies are saying that an inside source says the 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.600 DA's office is now looking into the Nolan Wells as 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:49.040 a criminal investigation. I can't put that up on the stand. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.200 Susan Hendricks joining me, investigative journalist and author of Down 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.360 the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi. Susan, 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.679 you get laughed out of court if your witness at 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.960 a Little Bertie told me number one, that's hearsay, but 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.080 a little Bertie, Yeah, exactly. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.600 It makes me wonder, did that woman those text messages 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.240 about some sort of altercation. Is the grand jury analyzing 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.240 this as we speak, because finally the DA came out 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.640 and said, look, I can't release anything that's going on, 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.320 but let it be clear, and I'm paraphrasing that we 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.440 are investigating this with a grand jury. 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.720 Susan Hendrick, You're absolutely right, she states most recently, this 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.520 is the elected district attorney. My obligation and commitment is 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.760 to present the grand jury with all the evidence collected 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.639 in the case in order for them to reach a 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:47.240 decision based on a thorough investigation, complete evidence, presentation, the 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:52.439 actual truth, and an understanding of the law. I'm obligated 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.000 to do so in keeping with the law and the 0:22:56.080 --> 0:23:00.000 rules of the court. She goes on to state, stand 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.919 firmly on the rule of law and my ethical obligation. 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.040 That is what the people of Jackson County elected me 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.120 to do. I will present the grand jury with a thorough, 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:14.240 complete and fair investigation into the death of Nolan wells 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:20.840 Now is there a criminal investigation? According to some sources, 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:25.760 there is. We keep hearing, there is no criminal investigation. 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:30.720 To Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, what is the 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:33.840 truth of it tonight, Nancy. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:38.359 It hasn't been announced that there's a criminal investigation, but 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.639 it just stands to reason that they are doing a 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:47.080 full investigation into the death of Nolan Wells. At this point, 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.639 we don't have a cause of death, Nancy. They have 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.840 not released the reports on the autopsy that was done 0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.200 by the state, completed weeks ago. We don't know anything. 0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:58.480 Nothing's been released. 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.520 So whether they're doing a criminal investigation or not, I 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:05.640 think it stands the reason they are investigating to every 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.720 piece of evidence they can find to determine what happened 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.399 and what they can present they being investigators to the 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.600 grand jury. 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:19.679 I understand the public's urgency to know what happened to Nolan, 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:22.919 but we are not taking time for time's sake. We 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:26.600 are taking the time required to complete the work this 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:31.879 investigation demands. Since Nolan was reported missing, local, state, and 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:36.840 federal law enforcement agencies have worked around the clock investigating 0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:40.520