WEBVTT - Wonder Man E05-08 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.800 Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for Wonderman episodes five through eight. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:26.240 Be warned. Hello, Iam and Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosie 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.040 Knight and welcome back to x Revision, the podcast where 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.040 we dive deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, comics and 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.080 pop culture company from my Heart, where we're bringing you 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:34.159 three episodes weekly. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:39.200 News plus news plus news. In today's episode, we are back. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.840 We're talking about wonder Man. We recap the first half 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.879 of the season, which you can listen to now, and 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.440 then you can listen to us recap the second half 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:47.960 of the season. As you know if you listen to 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:49.640 our first recaps, this is more of a deep dive 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.080 discussion as this is a slice of life, superho show. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.040 But oh my god, what show is and we are 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.640 going to be digging into all the emotionally heartbreaking events 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.440 of the second half of wonder Man right now. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.520 Let's get into it. So episodes five through eight Found 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:15.679 Footage Callback, Kathy Friedman and Yucca Valley are the back 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:22.760 half of the wonder Man season. Quick recap Found Footage. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.920 A celebratory night spirals into a dangerous collision of ambition, exposure, 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:32.399 and gunfire as Simon Williams dream comes within reaching the 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:39.440 worst possible moment. Basically, there's a conversation with some local 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:45.080 tuffs who have a problem with Trevor, and Simon uses 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.680 powers but is unfortunately videotaped by a young man named Jayden, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.600 who then they have to deal with and do some 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.480 stuff for it in order to get him to delete 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.520 his footage. The situation spirals kind of out of control. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.680 Such a fun episode. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.720 Very very fun episode Episode six Callback for a long 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.000 night of little sleep, Simon and Trevor race to von 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:17.240 Kovac's house, where they work through their roles in a 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.040 wonderful I mean, this is the one that was like, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:27.320 this is like Megalopolis Kathy Freeman. Episode seven Simon's controlled 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:32.600 public persona because to unravel, Simon meets with Vivian, who 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:38.000 understands that he's hiding something, and Trevor admits that he's 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.480 been feeding information to damage Conrol all along, and this 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:47.040 really like just breaks Simon's heart. Simon response by releasing 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:51.040 ionic energy and basically destroying the entire sound stage. And 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:57.680 then episode eight Uca Valley the finale. After Simon's destructive outburst, 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:04.200 Trevor comes up with a plan to retake the Mandarin 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.160 persona and basically blame himself for the explosion, saying that 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.680 he as the terrorist known as the Mandarin who is 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.320 real this time not fake, planting the explosives, blowing up 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.680 the studio, thus clearing Simon, allowing him to rise to 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.959 stardom behind the Wonder Man picture. That goes on to 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:28.320 you know, shatter box offices around the globe, and then Simon, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:34.320 now a famous actor, goes undercover in perhaps his most 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.320 important role to date as a warden at the Department 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.560 of Damage Control prison in the desert in order to 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.640 bust Trevor Slattery out. That is the season, and it 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.840 was a wonderful, charming season that I think provided a 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:59.640 roadmap for how Marvel can do more grounded, character driven 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.800 superhero stories going forward. Let's talk about it. Your thoughts 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:06.000 on Wonder Man. 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.160 I just love this show so much. I thought the 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.440 first half is great, as we talked about. I think 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.760 the central conceit is so clever. Just hire a really 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.640 fantastic actor and make a show about acting like ya. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.680 Ya is brilliant, so it makes sense that we love 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.440 to watch him. But I really think that the back 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:31.920 half of this season is such an emotionally draining yet 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:38.039 satisfying kind of televisual experience for me. I kind of 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.680 find shows that invest me this much a little bit 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.880 hard to watch, like the Simon goes through it in 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.880 these episodes. And Yeah, there was just something so beautiful 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:54.000 about not only the Hollywood meta nature of as you mentioned, Jason, 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:55.720 and I immediately put this in the group chat when 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.280 I was rewatching. When you watch episode six after seeing 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:04.560 the incredible megalopolist documentary Megadoc. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:05.440 It's crazy. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:11.880 Yeah, same exercises, question Mark. I know, it really does 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:17.159 feel like somehow, maybe a crew member was on set. 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.920 It feels like there was someone who was feeding information 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:25.000 to the show about these kind of insane exercises. So 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.080 when you watch wonder Man, it somehow feels more timely, 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.880 more prescient, more like it's making a statement on the 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.080 way that these things work. I also found that there 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.680 is so much to love in Simon's character. We've had 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.520 this conversation, and I think it's going on on the 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.120 internet in general, this reading of maybe Simon is an 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.919 autistic person or and you're a divergent person. And I 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.800 loved how in episode six we get to see him 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.640 having to try and emotionally regulate when something changes, like 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.480 a plan changes and he suddenly can't improv. And this 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.359 is my new hot take, I'm bad at improv because 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.400 improv is ablest. I can't do it. Guys. It's hard 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.240 when you just can't make things up. Okay, But like, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.720 I loved that episode and I feel like the eventual 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.760 emotional payoff is so high. And I also think that 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:16.000 Trevor taking the man their immantle back and kind of 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.360 using it to save Simon is a really nice way 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.120 to kind of acknowledge that tough journey that the character's 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.800 been on, but ultimately reclaim it for something positive. And 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:28.919 then I just love the ending so much. And I 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.320 gotta ask you, Jason, the ending where we see Simon 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.240 break Trevor out of prison and he's wearing the glasses. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:36.800 He's going up and you know he's going up in 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.599 the sky's wearing the DODC uniform, but you can imagine 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.080 him wearing the glasses wearing the Superho costume. Do you 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.240 think if these characters come back, we're gonna get to 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.599 see Simon living a dual life as an actor and 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.200 a vigilante or do you think that this might be 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.400 the last time we'll see them. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:07:00.400 I do wonder. I like the I like the idea 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:07.760 that Simon becomes not just like an out superpowered, enhanced person, 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.560 but also like a working actor behind it, which is 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.200 very much comics accurate. You know, Simon Williams in the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.560 comics was a member of the West Coast Avengers and 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.320 the Avengers in general, but also like starring in movies, 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.720 television commercials, and TV shows. So I think that would 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.000 be really I think that would be really cool if 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.080 they can figure out how to do that. I will 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.280 say that I like, Yeah, I love the reading of 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.000 I didn't necessarily pick up on it until it was 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.400 mentioned in there in our group chat that you know, 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.680 what if Simon Williams is, you know, neurodivergent on some level, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:51.440 and I think his inability to, like his ionic outbursts 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:56.920 coming after being overstimulated stimulated, I think really track with that. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.480 But there's so many small character in this that just 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:11.280 feel different and more raised to the level of importance 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.160 within the character that used to be just for the 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:21.640 superpowers or for the character's relationship with other superheroes, And 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:27.200 that's just really good. Work, especially considering that, you know, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:32.720 I'm not sure when we get a effective Marvel origin 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.680 story type movie in the future, Like maybe I'm not 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.920 sure how that happens in the future. Like Marvel has 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.400 really kind of struggled with that, and you know, looking 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.400 at Fantastic four, I think has you know, has struggled 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:54.160 to do it while also trying to serve making blockbuster 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.040 movies as like a goal. So I just think this 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.280 was great. I think this is exactly how they can 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.679 introduce characters in the future. I think the half hour 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:10.000 format leave you leave, leave us wanting more, not wondering 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.679 why they stretched this out is definitely something that they 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.320 need to like do more of going forward. And to 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:23.320 your point, there is so much stuff in here that 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.480 is a love letter to movies, to Hollywood, to acting, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.480 to creativity, like all the von Kovac stuff where he's like, Okay, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.199 do I just see it again, but you just woke 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.000 from a nap in which you had a dream that 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:45.560 you were eating a kangaroo's placenta. Okay, let's go. Like 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.040 all of that stuff is like mega, That's like Francis 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.880 Coppola in Megadoc. That's exactly the shit he was doing, 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.600 it's sure nuts. I just loved it. I thought it 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.880 was it was really really really great. You never are 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.240 It doesn't keep you waiting for like, Okay, when are 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.319 the Superpowers going to come out? That's really like secondary 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:16.360 to the character's arc struggle and goals. And I really 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:23.360 love the fact that throughout this series, when Simon is 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.800 struggling with like secrets that he's trying to not reveal, 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.959 sometimes you're like, well, what is this, Like I'm not 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.640 actually sure what he's talking about? Is he talking about 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.400 like is this something about him potentially being new or divergent, 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.880 or is it him just trying to keep his his 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.640 his powers a secret. I thought the way those things 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.240 conflated felt very human and lived in. I thought it 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.000 was great program, great show. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.480 I totally agree. Something else I adored about it. You 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.959 talked about the kind of meta Hollywood love last stuff, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:59.719 which we adore, and obviously it's kind of a love 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.920 life TV and the film and the Amadeas heads are 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.840 eating and everybody's loving it. But also I was really 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.880 I thought it was very interesting to see a Marvel 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.679 movie make a commentary on a conversation that the fans 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.280 have because the man when the mand are in not 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.080 the Mandalorian, as I almost said, I know you heard 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.840 that round are coming out. But like the when the 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:34.840 Mandarin explains why he allegedly blew up this mysterious studio 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.800 lot that anyone who has ever seen a movie will 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.080 know is Paramount Studios, but they blurt out the Paramount sign. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.480 He uses an argument that many of us have made 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.080 about the MCU that the American Hollywood film industry is 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.040 used to brainwash people that it is incotes with the 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.280 military and all this kind of stuff. And the funny 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.640 thing is Marvel takes that military money. Marvel has those 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.480 Air Force contracts. That is the nature of making movies 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.520 in Hollywood and wanting to use real military vehicles, etc. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.160 Et cetera, being able to have characters like Captain Marvel 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.000 in the Air Force. So I found it very funny 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.559 and meta and interesting, just like the rest of this show. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.960 To me, this feels like a very subversive show. It 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.640 feels like a show that somebody said, hey, let's see 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.959 if we can get this made in the Marvel model, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.560 and guess what they did. And I think now, like 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.200 you said, Jason, it lays out a framework for how 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:30.040 they could do this in the future. And Jason, I 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.160 want to ask you, maybe when we get back from 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.839 a break, but like, what would your dream pitch be 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.240 for the next hero who gets something like this? 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:40.480 Oh? 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.360 Wow, yeah, let's talk about that when we come back 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:44.960 from a break. 0:12:45.240 --> 0:13:04.920 Yeah, what would your dream pitch be for the next 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:06.360 hero who gets something like this? 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.240 Jeez? Good question. Well, like in a world in which 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.800 in a world in which the mutants, I mean, Simon 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:17.440 is basically a. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.120 Mutant, Chris's definitely can come from that. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.479 Yeah, in this telling of the mc so, Simon Williams 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:29.000 in the comics got his ionic powers through a lab accident, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:35.960 which is classic classic It's either an experiment, a lab accident, 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:41.200 some sort of controlled explosion, you know, radioactive spidery, et cetera, 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.800 or you're a mutant, And clearly it's the third of 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.880 those three. Oh my god, gosh. I'd love to see 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:55.960 like a Jubilee runaway mall story, like living in the mall, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:03.120 some aer in the mall, like and to I want 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.360 to divert just for a second. One of the things 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.880 I loved in terms of like how this program dealt 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:16.199 with character is in the finale, you get Simon's scheme 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.000 to break Trevor out right, he goes to Yucca, he 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.240 meets with the security guard. He is like, I'm working 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:23.800 on a role. I can't tell you what it is. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:30.280 And then you get this entire section of scenes where 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.920 it's like he's meeting his family, he's talking with him, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.520 he's drinking with helping him train. There's all of these 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.080 things that like another Marvel show would not have time 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.160 for and would not even do. That would just be 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.400 a guy like you actually don't need to know anything 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.960 about that guy that Simon boondoggles into, although he does 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.760 give him millions of dollars, yeah, in order to let 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.840 him do that. But that is the kind of dedication 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.120 to like rushing out characters that we need more of. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:07.640 And I mean there's so many characters that, like, you like, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:08.960 what if we did weird ones? 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.200 I would love to say, well, I'm like, this is 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.840 a close this is a gateway, Jason, because wonder Man 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.800 is a weird character. So what's your weirdest slice of life? 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.880 Paste pot Pete Like, yes, you know, like something like 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.000 that or The Wizard, Like I think that I think 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:31.520 that villains fleshed out villains who are you know, superheroes 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.880 in villains in Marvel and often in DC become villains 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.080 or heroes for the same reason. They just there's always 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.280 the same kind of like inciting event, but they make 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.520 the decision either to go light or dark based on that. Right, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.240 it's always like they got screwed over by their boss, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.280 or they got a prime, or there was an accident 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.640 and someone like the Wizard or Pace Pop Pete or 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.120 these kind of lower level criminal characters who like invent 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.920 something thing that allows them to get ahead in life. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:10.360 I think that there could be some really interesting ways 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.560 to approach those characters through this, And I also think 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:18.720 that just generally speaking, we're kind of a villains. Is 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.120 the thing the MCU has not been I think great 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:27.240 at is Miley struggled, Yeah, really populating their stable of 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.400 villains with colorful characters who can come and go. Too 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:37.200 often it's like this intense like superpowered threat that you know, 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.600 the Red Skull who once they're vanquished, they're kind of 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.400 off the board, or Thanos that once you beat him, 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.880 it's like that's it takes all of the superheroes to 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.640 beat him. What about somebody who it takes like a 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.760 street level superhero like a month to beat them, right. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.120 Isn't that what made five of Us so great? When 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.000 you know this idea of males morale is getting this victim, 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.160 you know, a villain of the week in the spot, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.600 and then that mutating into this crazy villainous origin. I 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.080 love that idea, Jason. I also think you're right. I 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.960 think Marvel needs to build out its rogues gallery. It's 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.800 always had those cosmic villains that we love, but DC 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.119 has that, and DC has a crazy rogues gallery. I 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:19.879 would say, if I was gonna do it, i'd go 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.280 for like a I'd probably go for a similar tone. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.160 I think this wonder Man tone is incredible. I would 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.440 probably want to do like three D Man, but I 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.120 would also use it to do my favorite thing, which 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.879 is to recontextualize something that didn't work in the MCU. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:36.600 In this case, I'd be going for like a Ragnarock 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.920 esque recontextualization of Secret Invasion, and it's all from three 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.480 D Man's perspective as just a normal guy who can 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.000 see all the scrolls and just nobody believes them. And 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.760 then eventually, you know, you maybe find out that at 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.600 some point he's able to help in a small way, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.720 but I think there would be something really fun in that, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.280 kind of almost like a They Live, but more of 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.959 a farcical comedy about like, yeah, nobody believes that this 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:02.960 guy with his three D glasses can see who the 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.960 scrolls are because nobody knows the scrolls are there because 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.159 they've been there for like forty years and nobody knows. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.960 And then you kind of kindly slowly catch up with 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.639 secret Invasion and maybe try and change a little bit 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.360 of what happened there. I think something like that could 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.560 be fun, And I think you're right, Jason. I mean 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.560 also something that worked for me so well. And this 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.040 is very specific obviously because of where we live. But 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.680 I loved how La this show was, and I loved 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:32.320 how Chicago Echo that Ironheart was, and I loved how 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.240 Echo a lot of it was spent on the res, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:38.200 Like I think these location being part of the heart 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.320 of the series is a great way to ground it 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.359 and to show how many different aspects there are of America. 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:45.960 I would love to see like Jubilee, you know, where 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.280 there's a huge Asian American community in a very famous 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.879 mall in La de Lamo Male, like do a Torrent 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.399 set Jubilee thing. I want to fucking watch that, Like, 0:18:53.800 --> 0:19:00.000 do these specific characters in these really beautiful lived in locations. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.960 I'll see what it's like to be the insurance salesman 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.560 who has to tell everyone their car premiums are going 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.760 up because the Hulk has smashed another five Nissans in 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.600 you know, downtown New York or whatever. This is a 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:13.880 great space for that. And look at how popular it's been. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.720 This show has gone barely any hatred. I've seen no 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:22.120 trolling campaigns. I have only seen really happily surprised viewerships, 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.880 especially because I think another thing we haven't really talked 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.879 about is contextually this show is actually pretty dark for 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.080 the MCU, like, it has a very bleak, sad sense 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.280 of humor. It's very existential. It really dares the audience 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.960 to go on more of like an intellectual and emotional 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.199 journey with them, and that has hit here, so I 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.000 think we got to follow and do more of that. 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.200 I completely agree. I meant, part of Simon's journey is 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:51.760 he has no friends. He's dedicated himself to this, you know, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.800 almost quixotic quest to become a Hollywood actor and a 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:00.679 huge star. He's lying to his family about how successful 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.399 he is. His only friend is Trevor Slattery, who is 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.880 you know, like SENTI by him, sent by the government 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:14.560 to spy on him. And he has no ability to 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:20.720 like forge close bonds with with any kind of romantic partners. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.480 Like he's really struggling, and a lot of this story 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.520 is like him trying to deal with that, and also 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.440 the fact that he is more comfortable playing a role 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.280 than being himself. Like that's when he becomes wonder Man 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.480 at the end, you know, in the in the costume, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.520 with the goggles and the whole thing. It's it's because 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.639 he has like embraced that role in a way that 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.240 he wasn't able to embrace his own life, his own 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:52.080 regular life. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.400 I think that's why he's also able to save Trevor, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.480 because he has become wonder Man, like he is able 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.280 to bring that role into his life. Okay, Jason Joel 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.720 gave us some really good big questions here, So with 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.440 this and obviously the studio cleaning up so far at 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.720 Award season is the thirty minute TV series back in 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.160 the Prestige Television conversation and also I think this fits 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.600 into stress teage TV. This is a stressful show. 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:27.520 I mean the thirty minute prestige. First of all, back 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.840 would imply that it existed. I'm not sure has there 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:36.840 ever been thirty minutes? Are for comedy, right, yeah, comedy 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.000 reflected stuff, and so I don't know that there's ever 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.600 been a thirty minute thirty minute prestige. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.680 It's the Bear, I would say, made it a possibility. 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:49.080 And that's why the Bear. 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.080 The Bear was a fit you've been, That was a hoodwink, 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:58.160 that was not That was just a drama that they 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.520 did in thirty minutes. And then everybody brains broke because 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.600 they were like, so it's a comedy. And so I 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.440 guess what I'm saying is other than the Bear, Season one, 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.000 can we think of an actual prestige thirty minute? 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:18.439 Could the Studio be the first? 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.280 Then it's the comedy though. Okay, so you think Good 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:23.560 Place was a sitcom? 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.480 You think the prestige has to be no comedy? 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.159 I mean, like, I guess we to sound like the 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.800 science fiction No. I guess we have to. I guess 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:33.800 we have to. I guess we have to. Like, Okay, 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.320 let's what is prestige. Prestige is like you know, what 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:39.959 do you mean my Presige question. 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.360 No one's ever answered it before. I think it's it's 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:43.640 gonna be easy. 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:49.320 So I always think of Prestige as like very ambitious, 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:55.400 great acting, great writing, great directing, pushing boundaries, the type 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.080 of show that you didn't think you'd ever see on television, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:02.040 but there it is. So yes, Madman, Deadwood, the Sopranos, 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:06.040 Breaking Bad, better call Saul Succession. 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:08.639 I'll give you one. I'll give you one that I 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.040 think does count. Even though I am not as much 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.119 of a fan of this show as everyone else. It 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.640 is a comedy, but I think that it covers all 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:17.919 of the things you just said about direction and boundary 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:22.520 breaking and all of that. Fleabag was a show, and 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.199 I think that pushes the boundaries of the way that 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.239 the show uses time and the fourth wall and all 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.600 that kind of stuff. So maybe it's more that we 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.000 are entering into a new age. 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.560 You know what else? You know what else? And I 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.240 hate it? Actually was it a half hour England? The 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:46.720 original BBC Office the first two seasons was Prestige. Yeah, 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:50.000 because that was that was like a seismic. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:52.720 Shift, culture change, a real. 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:57.040 Culture changer, and that and that it melded comedy and 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:02.480 drama and heartfelt. The motion, like you know, Ricky Gervay 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:03.800 is huge piece of shit. 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.760 Yeah, but will won't. 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:11.960 They in the in the BBC office is like as 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:13.000 good as it gets. 0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:15.600 You couldn't believe how good it is, Like you just 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:20.080 can't stop watching it. Also incredible Dwight Costing completely different 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:22.400 vibe but like very creepy. 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.439 And so I guess I guess I would say that 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:28.280 I think that I think that what we're seeing with 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.280 a Night of the Seven Kingdoms, with the studio a 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.800 little bit and with Wonderment, is that there is a 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:45.880 lane for kind of genre mash type half hour television programs. Okay, 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:54.199 that that put character development as central to the execution 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:56.840 of the of the storytelling. I like, it's not just 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.159 about effects, it's not just about action, it's not just 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:04.280 about like with the studio, the dedication to the Wanner 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:10.960 in this kind of like cinematographical excellence. It's about it's 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.720 about learning who the characters are. And in that sense, yes, 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.040 I think that what we're seeing an opening of a 0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:21.080 lane here for particularly for marvel Ian did. 0:25:20.920 --> 0:25:24.280 A really interesting call out there for Entourage. But you know, 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:26.520