1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace available now only on Fox Nation. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: When your children draw a picture of you, what do 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: they draw? Mine drew me in black tights, tennis shoes 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: and a Braves t shirt. My husband had on his 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: work outfit. We were all holding hands Susan Cox Powell's children, 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: her two little boys, Charlie and Braden, to a picture 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: of Mommy stuffed in a car trunk. And that's just 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. I mean, Nancy Grace. This 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does the 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: name Susan Cox or Susan Cox Powell mean anything to you? 12 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: Does it ring a bell, even a distant bell? Well? 13 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: I will never forget the name Susan Cox, and I 14 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: will never forget her face, and I will never forget 15 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: her two little boys because they're branded into my memory. 16 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: What happened? Where is Susan Cox? Why did her two 17 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: little boys have to die? This has been dragging on 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: for several years now and still no answers, and no 19 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: one has been held accountable. Even if you don't hold 20 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: anybody accountable, can we just get answers? Can we get 21 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: the truth. Today, a team is joining me that is 22 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: being led by Susan's father, Chuck Cox. I'm Nancy Grace. 23 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 24 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious M one eleven the 25 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Triumph Channel. Take a listen to this. Why take your 26 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: two young sons camping after midnight, freezing cold temperatures. Well, 27 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: we just go out and do things that are fun. 28 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: But it's after midnight. You know it shouldn't your son's 29 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: be sleeping. Weren't they sleeping? People who know me know 30 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: that time is hard for me to keep track of. 31 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: My tend to be spontaneous. I do things in the 32 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: spur of the moment. Why not call work the next 33 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: morning to say, Hey, I was out camping. I'm not 34 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: going to be in today. To be honest, Saturday was 35 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: a blur. I was convinced it was still Saturday. Just 36 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: hearing his voice makes my skin crawl. It just anger 37 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: just comes up into my neck. Because this beautiful mother, 38 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: Susan devoted herself to little boys dead. I don't have 39 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: official word on that, but I know that she's dead 40 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: at the hands off her husband, and they're two little 41 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: boys dead. Why you were just hearing our friend at 42 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: ABC News, Abbe Boudreau speaking to Josh Powell. Joining me 43 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: an all star panel to try and make sense of 44 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: it and maybe get some answers today, because right now 45 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: there is a courtroom battle going on like you have 46 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: never seen. Joining me Evan Barriott, lawyer on the case 47 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: working with Susan's dad, and Bremner, high profile lawyer out 48 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: of Seattle, attorney for Chuck and Judy Cox, the boy's grandparents. 49 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: Susan's parents. Rose Winquist, private investigator. You can find her 50 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: at Winkwist as w I n q u I s 51 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: d Winkwist Investigations dot com. Who's been on the case 52 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: since the get go. Doctor Daniel Bober. Forensic psychiatrists joining 53 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: us us out of the Florida jurisdiction. You can find 54 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: them on Instagram. Doctor Daniel Bober, the medical examiner for 55 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: the State of Florida. Doctor Tim Gallagher also joining me. 56 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: Investigative journalist Crime Online Alexis Terres Chuck. Now, this is 57 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: a reporter that's been around the block a couple of times, 58 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: intimately familiar with the case, but joining me right now. 59 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: It is a very special guest who I go so 60 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: far as to call a friend, Chuck Cox. This is 61 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: Susan's father, the boy's grandfather, who was leading the fight 62 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: to save their lives. But because of d facts, CPS, 63 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, Child Protective Services, who 64 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: did nothing, even though the alarm was raised over and 65 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: over and over to them. You had investigators going to 66 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: CPS begging for help, but it was repeatedly refused, and 67 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: right now a court battle is raging. To Chuck Cott's 68 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Susan's father, Chuck, I've just got to ask you. This 69 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: is something I've never asked you before. We've been through 70 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: Susan's disappearance, We've been through Powell's crazy story that he 71 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: took the boys camping at midnight in freezing temperatures, that 72 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: when the boys were asked later to draw a picture 73 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: of Mommy, your daughter, your baby girl, they drew a 74 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: picture of her in Daddy's car trunk. And I was 75 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: thinking about that this morning, Chuck, because there are pictures 76 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: up in our kitchen and their photos that the children 77 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: have drawn, pictures the children have drawn of their family. 78 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: And they've got their dad who's huge, tall and wearing 79 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: always wearing a vest, even if he's gone on work 80 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: clothes and me in black. It's in a Braves T 81 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: shirt and it's so perfectly done. That's how they think 82 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: of us. Your grand boys thought of Mommy in a 83 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: car trunk with Daddy driving and them in the back seat, 84 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: and they say, Mommy went into the mines looking for crystals. 85 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: That's the last time we saw her. But what I 86 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: want to ask you, Chuck, is when they got married, 87 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: After Josh and Susan, your daughter got married, when was 88 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: the first time you thought this guy is weird? I 89 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: would think when I got a call from from my 90 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: daughter said they were had driven from the reception over 91 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: to Steve Powell's house to wash off the car, and 92 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: they were there. They're supposed to be going on their 93 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: honeymoon and instead he drives to his father's house so 94 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: he can wash his car. I thought, what on earth 95 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: is this guy okay? Right there? That was after the wedding, 96 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: after the wedding reception, so day one, day one, all 97 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: right after the wedding reception and Bremner, high profile lawyer 98 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: out of Seattle, who is the attorney for Chuck and 99 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: Judy Cox who've been leading the battle for the truth. 100 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: They were the ones, begging, begging defacts Department Family Children's 101 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: Services in that jurisdiction to do something. Now the boys 102 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: are dead, dead at the hands of their father because 103 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: de facts did nothing. And Bremner, tell me about the 104 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: courtroom battle that is raging right now. First, thanks for 105 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: showcasing this case Nancy for so long and supporting the 106 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: Cox family. Is just you've been fabulous And I an 107 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: you've met my babies, John, David and Lucy. The thought 108 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: of Lucy growing up and unwittingly marrying somebody like Josh 109 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: Powell and ending up in the minds looking for crystals, 110 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's overwhelming to me what that family has 111 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: been through. Tell me about the legal battle right now. 112 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: And we have a case right now, Nancy, against the 113 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: Department of Child Services CPS, the Lord PTL. Finally somebody's 114 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: taking them to court right and and it's basically the 115 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: cases that they ignored so many red flag fans we 116 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: couldn't even count all of them, and told the jury 117 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: about that, and they repeated warnings that Josh would kill 118 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: these kids. Slow down so people like me can even 119 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: understand what's happening in court right now. We're in the 120 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: defense case we put on our case and the case 121 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: is going forward despite of course, the coronavirus out here 122 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: in the Northwest. And we've had experts come on Nancy 123 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: to talk about that they had a reunification bias, that 124 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: safety should have been safety first. But that was basically 125 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: something right there, right there. Hold on, Anne, you're warped 126 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: in right now. Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. You just 127 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: heard and Brammer state that d facts CPS was hell 128 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: bet on reunification versus safety. Explain, well, you know what, Nancy. 129 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: You see this a lot in these reunification cases where 130 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: the goal is to reunify the kids with the parents, 131 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: and I think it's a mistake because sometimes the parents 132 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: are obviously not what's in the best interest of the child, 133 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: and it actually puts the child in greater jeopardy, especially 134 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: in this case as we're seeing crime stories with Nancy Grace. 135 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: Guys joining me right now, Susan Powell's father, Chuck Cox, 136 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: who's been leaving leading the battle against Department A Child's Services, 137 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: who he holds responsible for the death of his beautiful 138 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: little boys, two gorgeous little boys. Branded Charlie, I want 139 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: you to take a Listen to our friend Abby Bedroau 140 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: at ABC News interviewing Josh Powell before he murdered the boys. 141 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: Did you kill your wife? No? Did you have anything 142 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: to do with the disappearance of your wife? No? Nothing, nothing? 143 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: What is the truth? People who know me that I'm 144 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: a good dad. I work hard, I put my son's first. 145 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: I was a good husband. I took care of my family. 146 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: I see you're still wearing your wedding band. Yeah you 147 00:10:47,520 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: still love her? Yeah? I guess you could say that 148 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: I still love her. Man. That took a long minute 149 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: for him to figure out if he loved the mother 150 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: of his children, the one he killed. Wow. Just hearing 151 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: the voice of Josh Powell right now, A courtroom battle 152 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: raging to find out the truth of why defects Child 153 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: Protective Services never moved to protect the boys. I want 154 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: you to take a listen to abbdrow over at ABC. 155 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: She's talking about how Susan Powell, now missing for two years. 156 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: Take a listen. For nearly two years, authorities have been 157 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: searching for missing Utah mom Susan Powell. Her husband Josh, 158 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: whose alibi a midnight winter camping trip with his children, 159 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: is the only named person of interest by police, but now, 160 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: in a shocking turn, Susan's father in law, Stephen Powell, 161 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: has been arrested following a search of his Washington State home. 162 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: Police say thousands of lewed images of women and children 163 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: as young as eight were discovered by police on computers 164 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: and DVDs inside Stephen Powell's home. There are pictures of 165 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: girls and showers on toilets taken a bath. Among that material, 166 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: police say secretly recorded videos and photos of Susan Powell, 167 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: allegedly taken by her own father in law. We also 168 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: have pictures of Susan Cox Powell that she probably doesn't 169 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: know her taken. Powell shares his home with his son Josh, 170 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: as well as Josh and Susan's two young sons. Since 171 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: Stephen Powell's arrest, the boys had been removed from the 172 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: house and are in protective custody. Powell pleaded not guilty 173 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: to fourteen counts of voyeurism and one count of possession 174 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: of child pornography. So let me understand this to Evan Baryalt, 175 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: the lawyer on the case led by Chuck Cox, Susan's dad. 176 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: Even though Josh Powell is the suspect, the only suspect 177 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in his wife, Susan's murder. D facts let the boys 178 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: still live with the father, and when a judge found 179 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: probable cause to search the home relating to Susan's disappearance, 180 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: they find child pornography. They find laying around for the 181 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: boys to see, pornography I've read your brief carefully, including 182 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: a photos of a woman, a young woman with a 183 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: sword plunged through her vagina. They found a noose, just 184 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: so much wrong in the home. And that's where the 185 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: boys have been living, these two little boys, Evan, that's correct, 186 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: that's where those boys were living. And throughout this dependency, 187 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: as the state continued to give Josh more and more, 188 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: none of these safety concerns diminished. In fact, the state 189 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: found out there were more images. There was cartoon porn 190 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: that they found on a computer in Utah, so it worsened. 191 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: And yet here the state was continuing to try and 192 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: give Josh more and more, and they were learning that 193 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: Josh was lying through his teeth. People in the community, 194 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: his family, others were saying, Josh is lying to you. 195 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: And yet here's the state giving Josh that much more, 196 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: trying to reunify these kids, not following these policies and 197 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: putting these kids in harm's way. And Rose Winkquist with 198 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: me private an investigator at winkqwist Investigations dot com. Rose, 199 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: we hear about childhorn in the home, pornography where women 200 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: are being murdered, laying out, not a disc, not on 201 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: a computer, but laying out and I guess magazine a 202 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: photographic form for the boys, the little boys to see that. 203 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: But we also learned Rose Winquist that the purv grandfather, 204 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: Stephen Powell, who was also living in the home, had 205 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: thousands of voyeurs photos where he would take pictures and 206 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: videos of women unsuspecting when they were changing clothes, when 207 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: they were in the bathroom, including photos of dead Susan 208 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: Cox Powell. As a matter of fact, isn't it true 209 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: that her underwear had been taken out of the dirty 210 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: clothes hamper and he, the father in law, had that 211 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: and he would lay out her underwear on the bed 212 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: with a picture of her head at the top and 213 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: formed like a pillow body for him to let me say, 214 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: euphemistically make out with yeah, yes, that's not that's absolutely right, Nancy. 215 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: Thank you. By the way, for following this for ten years. 216 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: If you can imagine from an investigative standpoint, you know, 217 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: Judge Powell was the only person of interest. Now, of 218 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: course people are using the word suspect in the disappearance 219 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: and probable murder of Susan Cox style. He left Utah 220 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: only three weeks after her disappearance to move in with 221 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: his pervy father, whose creepy fixation on Susan was unparalleled 222 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned. Again, you're right he had 223 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: photographs of Susan and video of Susan that she had 224 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: no idea he was taking of her. How did he 225 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: do it? Like through the window or through a Pete 226 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: pole camera? How did he do it? You know, through 227 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: the crack in the door, through any means he could 228 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: figure out away? And then of course, you know, a 229 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: search warrant was finally served on his house in September 230 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: of twenty eleven. This was from twenty one months after 231 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: Susan disappeared. The police described this house as a house 232 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: of horror. You can imagine there were there was a 233 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: bag of fingernail clippings and I know I heard that, 234 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: Am Bremner. I don't get the sandwich bag of hair 235 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: and fingernail clippings. It's just I can't imagine what that 236 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: was for or to whom they belong. But all this culminates. 237 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to a nine 238 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: one one call made by the social worker Elizabeth Griffin Hall. 239 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: Now this is after she hands the boys back over 240 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: to Daddy on a silver platter. Listen, I man, where 241 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: you calling up? Then one nine night cry? You want 242 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: the hell? Yeah? There was a man children I could 243 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: dropped off the Kenny wouldn't let me the door. I'm 244 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: gonna get them on the line. You knock hang up home. 245 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: I can hear the fire? Can I hear? Yet? It's 246 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: eighty one nine there? Why we haven't ended there? And 247 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: the people the thing, they've got somebody here, but I 248 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: wasn't fifth there. I'm gonna if somebody here. There's two 249 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: little boys in the house and they're five and seven, 250 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: and there's an adult man. He has took a light 251 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: hesitation and he blew up the house and the kid, 252 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: the kids and the husband and the father. What you have? Yeah? Yeah, 253 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: he found the door in my face. So I kept knocking. 254 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna think. I kept knocking and 255 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: then I called nine one one and that it's why 256 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: we're so angry. That is why we're so angry. Joining 257 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: me Susan's dad, Chut Cuts. I remember when I first 258 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: saw this image, the video of the home in flames, 259 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: and at first I understood that Josh Powell had blown 260 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: up his home, and then I was told the boys 261 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: were in there. Chuck, do you remember that moment when 262 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: you got word you'd already lost your daughter years before 263 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: because he killed her and was never brought to justice 264 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: and was given the opportunity to have these boys. Do 265 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: you remember when you learned about the explosion, Chuck? I 266 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: remember the learning about it, not believing it, and then 267 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: standing there at the house of watching what was left 268 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: of the flames, or not the flames, but the smoke 269 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: that was rising. The police had ended fire out, and 270 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: just asking myself what more could I possibly have done? 271 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: And I could not think of anything. I had warned 272 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: people and they dsahs people refused to listen to my warnings, 273 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: and I asked the police to rest him and they 274 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: said they couldn't. They were legal. There was always excuses, 275 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: there's always issues, but I couldn't. I did everything I 276 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: could do to save our grandchildren. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, 277 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: we have all worked so hard to bring to you 278 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim, Fighting back against America's crime Wave, 279 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: a brand new book. After interviewing literally hundreds of crime 280 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: victims and police, we put our knowledge into Don't Be 281 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: a Victim. You could pre order now go to Crime 282 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: online dot Com. Pre order now and know that portions 283 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing 284 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace with me 285 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: right now. The dad of Susan Cox Powell, who has 286 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: searched for answers for years, and his beautiful daughter, one 287 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: of the best mothers you'd ever hope to find, Susan Cox. 288 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Her disappearance has plagued him, but now misery has been 289 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: heaped on him, pain like I can't even imagine the 290 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: pain he has suffered when he learns the man who 291 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: killed his daughter, his son in law, allowed to keep 292 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: the boys murders them. Mister Cox, you said you tried 293 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: to warn people. I know that the two investigators had 294 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: worked so hard they even went and begged Chop Protective 295 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: Services to take the boys away because they were so 296 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: afraid who did you warn Chuck and what happened? I 297 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: warned everybody who would listen to me. I started with 298 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: the police because they were first working on the case 299 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: against Josh. Then when the boys came under the control 300 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: of Child Protective Services DHS, I warned the case worker, 301 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: and then I talked to the Guardian ad litem and 302 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: provided them evidence and tried to do everything because they were, 303 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: of course in the control of the state. So I 304 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: worked to everybody that I was supposed to work with 305 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: to try and get the point across that Josh could 306 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: kill these boys, and I wanted to get them safe 307 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: and out of that house of horrors, which we had accomplished, 308 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: but I was ignored. Take a listen to CBS Needs 309 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: correspondent Ben Tracy, and I want you to brace yourselves. 310 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: As Arson investigators continued to search through what's left of 311 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: the Powell home, the medical examiner now says seven year 312 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: old Charlie in five year old Braden Powell suffered chop 313 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: injuries to their head and necks. The sheriff says their father, 314 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: Josh Powell, then started the house on fire. They found 315 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: two five gallon cans of gas, one of them was 316 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: with the bodies. The other one we believe was spread 317 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: throughout the house. There was accelerants throughout the whole entire 318 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: house police see. Before he carried out the murder suicide, 319 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: Powell donated his son's toys to charity and left instructions 320 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: about his personal effects in multiple emails. He sent some 321 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: emails out to family and a pastor and some other people, 322 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: making sure that everybody knew that he was gone and 323 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: he was the one that did this. He had put 324 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: a plan in motion and he carried it out. Powell 325 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: had been under police scrutiny following the suspicious disappearance of 326 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: his wife, Susan Cox Powell, from their Utah home in 327 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: December two thousand and nine. Six days ago, he lost 328 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: a battle with Susan's parents for custody of his sons too. 329 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the state of Florida. 330 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: How in the world could medical examiners determine that Charlie 331 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: and Braden, just seven to five years old, had chop 332 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: marks to their necks. Well, that's a difficult question to answer. 333 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: You know, it would depend on the extent of the 334 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: burn injuries. But typically what we find are the victims 335 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: are on the floor of the residents that is engulfed 336 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: in flames, and meanwhile the fire is above them. So 337 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: they do get thermal injuries or they do get heat 338 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: burns on their body. But it's not as disfiguring as 339 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: one would imagine looking at the video. I just watched 340 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: the video myself. So there are many, many cases of 341 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: the injuries of presenting themselves in these bodies that have 342 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: been tragically burned, like these two boys. But how with 343 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: a burned body could you decipher chop marks to the neck? 344 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: Chop marks to the neck can be deciphered quite easily 345 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: by looking at the vertebra or the bones in the neck, 346 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: and you can see the instrument marks on the bone 347 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: of the neck, and that would lead one to believe 348 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: that is a chop marking. You could also coordinate that 349 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: injury with the injuries that you find in other parts 350 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: of the body, for instance, the skull, and a chop 351 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: mark to the skull leaves a very distinctive pattern, and 352 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: in this instance that pattern was preserved and the medical 353 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: examiner who did the case concluded that that was a 354 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: chop mark in the head and such. Again, the chop 355 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: mark in the neck. Both of them coordinated with each other. 356 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: We also learned that the official cause of death was 357 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: carbon monoxide poison, but I find that difficult to believe 358 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: if they actually sustained chop marks to the neck and skull. 359 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: Alexa Terrestia joining me Crack investigative journalist, Crime online dot Com. 360 00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: Alexis what leads me to this point to is lawsuit 361 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: the family has finally they tried Chuck and Judy Cocks. 362 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: They tried almost immediately after the children were killed to 363 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: file a lawsuit to get DSHS to take responsibility for this. 364 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: They filed a lawsuit, it was thrown out there. They 365 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: have finally been allowed to have it back and the 366 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: trial has started, and what they are asking for is 367 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: not punished. Well. The judge has said the woman who 368 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: was there, the original woman, cannot be prosecuted, the child 369 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: second services woman that allowed the children to go into 370 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: the homes they ran ahead. Although I'm wondering if Josh 371 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: Powell told those children he was so manipulative, if he 372 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: told them, next time you come over running a daddy's 373 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: house first, I bet he was planning it that far 374 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: in advanced. But they are finally having their day in 375 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: court because they have to be held responsible. Nobody can 376 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: be allowed to let children be abused and murdered in 377 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: this way. Detectives have testified on the stand. You know what, 378 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: and Bremner, we're hearing Alexei's Terreschuk joining us describing what's 379 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: happening in court right now. Just a war between the 380 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: gods going on where CPS Choppartative Services is actually thanks 381 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 1: to Chuck Cox, Susan's dad, the boy's grandfather, trying to 382 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: hold them accountable for what they did. Now Alex's Terreschuck 383 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: is absolutely correct. A higher court rule that the CPS 384 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: workers couldnt be held accountable individually, but as far as 385 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: the entire CPS, you got a shot at that. Now 386 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: take a listen to this, and Bremner, this is Chris 387 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: Cuomo speaking when he was at ABC. Take a listen 388 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: to what he learns. When Elizabeth Griffinhall brought Brayden and 389 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: Charlie Powell to see their father last Sunday, the boys 390 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: were excited to go as usual until that afternoon. She'd 391 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: only ever witnessed a father who loved his sons. But 392 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: then Josh, I will open the door, and everything changed. 393 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: Did you did the door open? Did you see Josh? 394 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: I saw Josh. I saw Josh for just one second. 395 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: His eyes caught mine and he had a look in 396 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: his eyes. It was just kind of sheepish, and he 397 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: just shrugged his shoulders at me like that, and then 398 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: he slammed the door, and I I thought that was 399 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: an accident, that he didn't mean to lock me out, 400 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: and so I knocked and I knocked, and I rang 401 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: the doorbell and I started. I started yelling at Josh, 402 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: let me in, and then she smelled gas and rushed 403 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: to call nine one one. We'll have somebody in the pot. 404 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: You there, Okay? How long will it be? I don't know. Man. 405 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: They have to respond to emergency like Britney situation first, 406 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: the first available deputy could be like that. So you're 407 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: telling the nine one one dispatcher this is the this 408 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: is an emergency, this is a big deal. There are kids, 409 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: and what are you getting from the other side? I'm 410 00:28:51,440 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: getting how can you be? Who's your supervisor? Crime Stories 411 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace guys the Case of Susan Cox Powell's 412 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: Murder and the Murders offer two little boys, Charlie and Braden, 413 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: has heated up in a court of law. It is 414 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: a war between the gods. As Susan's dad and mom 415 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: take on CPS Child Protective Services for their grandchildren being 416 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: back in the home of a killer their son in law, 417 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: Josh Powell. The boys end up dead dead because of 418 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: what CPS did working in tandem with Josh Powell. Take 419 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Fox News Seattle. This 420 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: is Olivia la Voice. It's been eight years since Chuck 421 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Cox saw his grandchildren for the last time. His emotions 422 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: still raw when discussing pulling up to Josh Powell's Graham 423 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: home engulfed in flames and running to a firefighter. I 424 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: asked him that the boys were in there, and he 425 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: said yes. Chuck Cox described trying to process his emotions 426 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: in that moment. He said he recalls saying out loud, 427 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: what more could I have done? I was thinking, I 428 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: tried so hard to keep them safe. I tried to 429 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: do everything. I did everything that I was asked and 430 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: more so. And I told everyone I could tell of 431 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: my fears and the danger. And still here I am 432 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: looking looking at this building and powerless to say to 433 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: the boys. This opened up testimony that is really the 434 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: heart of this case, Chuck Cox's attempts to get DSHS 435 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: social workers to see the danger he felt the boys 436 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: were in around Josh danger. You darn right, Susan Cox 437 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: is dead, and listen to the findings that were made 438 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: when the search warrant was executed in the home. They 439 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: found very sophisticated child porn on fifteen computers and laying 440 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: around porn lying out in the open. In the home 441 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: where the boys were. Josh Powell had a gallows hangman's 442 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: noose in his room with a picture of a woman 443 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: with a sword in her vagina coming out of her 444 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: stomach for the boys to see. Josh Powell known to 445 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: run around the home wearing nothing but a diaper. Josh 446 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: Powell remained a suspect in child porn and voyeurism, yet 447 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: Child Protective Services allowed these two little boys back in 448 00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: the home of a suspected killer too. Susan's dad, tell 449 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: me what you want to happen, Chuck Cox, What do 450 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: you want out of this lawsuit? First, we want DSHS 451 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: to recognize their error and to change how they're treating 452 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: these cases and how they treat domestic violence issues so 453 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: that no other family has to go through this, you know, Chuck, 454 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: I hate even playing or describing what happened to the 455 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: boys when you hear that. I know that when somebody 456 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: brings up facts about my fiance's martyr and I'm not 457 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: ready for it, it's like someone has thrown cold water 458 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: on me. I can be having a perfectly great day 459 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: with my children, John, David and Lucy, or David my husband, 460 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: and then somebody brings that up out of the blue, 461 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's still to this day, stops me in 462 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: my tracks. What is this trial doing to you? As 463 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: you have to hear this evidence day in day out. 464 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: Every time we do hear the evidence, or they bring 465 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: up some fact right or wrong, or it's close enough 466 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: that it brings us right back to where we were 467 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: that day and to the frustration we felt, and to 468 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: the loss of our children and the grief that we felt. 469 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: It all comes flooding back in. You know, I thought 470 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: I knew it all about grief after Keith was murdered, 471 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: But now that I finally you know, just as the 472 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: window was closing, I got married and had children, and 473 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: the thought that one of them would be hurt much 474 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: less endear what these two boys went through. I really 475 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: can hardly think about it, Chuck to Anne Bremner, You've 476 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: been working this case so long, and it really goes 477 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: to show your work and should affirm that. As much 478 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: as there are lawyer jokes floating around, and it's easy 479 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: to take a botshot at lawyers and judge as I 480 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: get it, you've been dedicated to this case from the 481 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: beginning and you've never let go what's happening in the 482 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: courtroom right now, and and at the end of this case, 483 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: what do you want, an Bremner, Well, Nancy, you've been 484 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: with us all along the way, and I think just 485 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: like the family, putting one foot in front of the 486 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: other in the hopes that there's going to be justice 487 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: at last, and this jury has a chance to make 488 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: history to make sure this never happens again, and we 489 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: have accountability. We're in the defense case right now. We're 490 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: hearing from all kinds of different people, including experts, about 491 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: why this and why that. But the bottom line is 492 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: is that they failed in their duties to these children. Oh, 493 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: they fail so horribly, Anne, they did, and it's it's 494 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it's very frustrating a course, but also heartening 495 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: to be part of this and to represent Chuck and 496 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: his family in a quest for justice. It's the most 497 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: important case I've ever had, and I hope there's a 498 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: legacy for Charley and Braden, for children not just in 499 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: Washington State, but all over this country that they won't 500 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: be in harm's way when they're in the care, custody 501 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: and control of Child Protective Services. You know, Evan and buriall. 502 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: This is the first time I've gotten to speak with 503 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 1: you personally, but I gotta tell you this is one 504 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: heck of a brief and we have posted it at 505 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: crime online dot com because it's an incredible brief that 506 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: you guys put together. Evan, if you win this case, 507 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: what are you asking for? Proud Nancy, thank you first 508 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: for the compliment. I really appreciate that. At the end 509 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: of the day, we want change, We want d SAHS, 510 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: we want CPS to change the way it does things, 511 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: and it needs to realize that it cannot act on 512 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: reunification at all costs. It says under the law that 513 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: child safety is number one, and DSHS CPS needs to 514 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 1: put child safety number one. Those rules, those guidelines are 515 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: there to protect children, to prevent events just like this. 516 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: The state had guidelines in place to prevent this from happening. 517 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: This never should have happened. It shouldn't happen to any child. 518 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: It is under the chrocust in control of the state 519 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: and it needs to stop. We can't have any more 520 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: child deaths. And this is an opportunity for a jury 521 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: to tell the state this is not going to happen again. 522 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: You need to turn it around. Now back to Chuck Cox, 523 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: Susan's dad. Chuck, you are intimately familiar with many, many 524 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: more case files than I have. You were there. What 525 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: do you think Josh did with Susan the specifics. My 526 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: suspicion was he poisoned her, incapacity in her was something 527 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: and her food, and then from there on I still 528 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: have issues. I think he probably stuck her somewhere where 529 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: she died, but I don't know, and then he got 530 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: rid of the body somehow. But that's that's what I'm thinking. 531 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: But you know, at this point, whatever we do is 532 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: not going to bring Susan back, or even Charlie and Braden. 533 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: But what I plan to do is when the courts 534 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: hopefully change what DSHS does. And obviously The only thing 535 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: we can get is as some kind of a judgment, 536 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: and we plan to use any judgment to increase our 537 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: efforts to help others to prevent this and to create 538 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: a legal defense fund for people who are dealing with 539 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: dshs so that people will have a voice and we 540 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: can protect more children. I mean, that's that's what we 541 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: can do. Is a legacy suit to Charlie and Braden, 542 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: and a service which is Susan's legacy, is service to 543 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: others to try and help others who are trapped in 544 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: domestic violence and are not aware of these things, to 545 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: bring this stuff to light. And that's why we really 546 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: appreciate your interest in the case, and that's why we're fighting. 547 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: And to Anne Bremner or Evan Buriot, Rose Wind Quiz, 548 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,959 Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bob or doctor Tim Gallagher, Alexis Tres, Chuck 549 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: and all of you, whenever you are tired or you're 550 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: weary and you feel like you can't take another step 551 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: or keep fighting, remember what Chuck Cox is saying. We 552 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: can make a difference. We are all watching that courtroom 553 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: and praying for the right outcome. Godspeed Nancy Gray's Crime Story, 554 00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye, friend, one