Speaker 1: Welcome into All Ball, the All Basketball Podcast Here on
Speaker 1: the Heard Podcast Net. I'm Doug Gottlieb real quick, uh
Speaker 1: distant reminders to listen to Doug Gotlik Show daily on
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Tradeo from three to six Eastern Time and
Speaker 1: twelve to three Pacific. What a story we have in
Speaker 1: the NBA. Our long national nightmare is over. It's definitely
Speaker 1: over because Kawhi Leonards no longer playing in this nation.
Speaker 1: He's playing in Toronto. Um. Look, my initial blush is
Speaker 1: deadlines bring deals. And though there was no hard, hard deadline,
Speaker 1: there was the meeting that took place in San Diego
Speaker 1: to which I've been told and most people believe. Greg
Speaker 1: pop Fitch after hearing Kawhi Letard out said I'll trade you.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you. We're been trade you. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get the best deal possible. I'll trade you. Now. He
Speaker 1: wants Kauai to play with USA Basketball. USA Basketball is
Speaker 1: getting together in Vegas, so it had to be. He'd
Speaker 1: like it to been done because otherwise, is Kawai gonna
Speaker 1: put himself out there and play and be healthy If
Speaker 1: he's on the trade block and he said to be
Speaker 1: trade the answer is probably not in addition to the
Speaker 1: idea of if he was traded somewhere that was not respectable,
Speaker 1: would he even suit up, would he play or would
Speaker 1: he pretend to still be hurt. I don't think Kawhi
Speaker 1: Leonard ever pretended to be hurt. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: ever thought. I don't think he thought he was right.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing if he plays now he does think he's right.
Speaker 1: He absolutely does. But I think that actually san Antonio
Speaker 1: did right by him and did right by themselves san Antonio.
Speaker 1: What what they can only be accused of doing is
Speaker 1: uh is overvaluing themselves on the market and potentially chasing
Speaker 1: the market. You know, their list price initially was ridiculous,
Speaker 1: you know, Kuzma Ingram Heart picks, picks picks, and then
Speaker 1: they wanted even more. They wanted um They wanted a
Speaker 1: similar sort of bounty from teams like Philadelphia. But the
Speaker 1: other reports that we had heard was, hey, if you
Speaker 1: can get us the top twenty player in the NBA,
Speaker 1: wim of Kawa is lit for you. And that's what
Speaker 1: they got into. Martin Rosen. I don't love de Rosen's
Speaker 1: ability to shoot the three. I don't love the fact
Speaker 1: that he disappeared against the Cleveland Cavaliers. But I've seen
Speaker 1: Martin Rosen take over an NBA game, absolutely take over.
Speaker 1: And while Toronto looks like bad guys because they said
Speaker 1: initially they weren't going to trade him, if you had to,
Speaker 1: Martin rose and you can trade him for Kawhi Leonards
Speaker 1: and oh yeah, by the way, get Danny Green as
Speaker 1: an ancillary piece. You make that deal. To me, it
Speaker 1: comes down to timelines. Toronto's timeline is we gotta win.
Speaker 1: We gotta win now. If it doesn't happen this year
Speaker 1: with no Lebron in the East, it's never gonna happen
Speaker 1: with this group, and we got to rethink things. So
Speaker 1: you go all in. You go all in, just like
Speaker 1: when you're in poker. When you go all in in poker,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you've got a great hand. It just
Speaker 1: means that at some point in time, we gotta go
Speaker 1: all in now because everybody else's hand might not be great,
Speaker 1: and it might be just good enough hand to win
Speaker 1: this thing or to get to an NBA finals, and
Speaker 1: then maybe you get quite a come back, or maybe
Speaker 1: you don't. You move all your pieces. As for the Spurs,
Speaker 1: does de Rosan fit their their championship mold. Probably not,
Speaker 1: But now that is the Marcus Aldridge Aldrich scores in
Speaker 1: the post that's not really needed anymore and mard Rozen
Speaker 1: scores in the mid range that's not really desired anymore either.
Speaker 1: But San Antonio Spurs will once again find a way
Speaker 1: to remain competitive for a longer period of time than
Speaker 1: anybody's remained competitive in recent NBA history. As for the Lakers,
Speaker 1: I think they're fine. Look at Josh Hart and his
Speaker 1: value and how much that skyrocketed winning the Summer agam
Speaker 1: v P. And it wasn't like he was the Summer
Speaker 1: League MVP because his team won. He was the best
Speaker 1: player in Summer league. A. Lonzo will be better, Ingram
Speaker 1: should be better, Kuzma should be better, and oh yeah,
Speaker 1: by the way, Lebron will help them be even better.
Speaker 1: I like that the Lakers are gonna take this year
Speaker 1: to figure out what they got and what they want
Speaker 1: to add. It's just not quite letter right now. Let
Speaker 1: me give you one kind of recruiting college basketball thought.
Speaker 1: I've been you go back a year ago, and if
Speaker 1: you follow me on Twitter, I've been a huge proponent
Speaker 1: of coal Anthony being the number one player in the
Speaker 1: class of two, doesn't where he's gonna go to high
Speaker 1: school next year. It's Greg Anthony's son um. And and
Speaker 1: here's what's what's fascinating about Cole Anthony. I've talked to a
Speaker 1: a lot of NBA players about this is how do
Speaker 1: I how do I give my kid a better life
Speaker 1: than I've lived, Teach him all that I know about
Speaker 1: the sport that I love, and on the other hand,
Speaker 1: create kind of the hunger and toughness that I had
Speaker 1: in order to get to this point. And the guy
Speaker 1: that somehow has been able to achieve that is Cole Anthony.
Speaker 1: Cole Anthony has an astoness to him to which nastiness
Speaker 1: and competitive streak to him, which I love and is
Speaker 1: needed and is missing. Asking these former NBA players, and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, like my kids too nice. My kid
Speaker 1: went to a private school. My kid grew up in
Speaker 1: a great neighborhood. My kid is and Cole Anthony has
Speaker 1: um you know, growing up in New York City, kind
Speaker 1: of has that chip on his shoulder and will just
Speaker 1: attack you and try and tear your heart out and
Speaker 1: feed it to you for lunch. He's incredible, incredible, he's
Speaker 1: bigger than his dad. UM needs to improve his shooting,
Speaker 1: but a better shooter than than his dad was. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's as good a defender as
Speaker 1: his dad was a great defender, but he can pass,
Speaker 1: he can dunk on, you can score, he can lead,
Speaker 1: he can win, and he is tougher than a two
Speaker 1: dollar steak. I know there are other guys in two
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen competing with him for best in class, but
Speaker 1: being a point guard, having that sort of pedigree and
Speaker 1: having the toughness that so many with that pedigree, lack boy.
Speaker 1: Whoever gets him is absolutely gonna love him alright. Last
Speaker 1: thing before we get to some of the interviews here
Speaker 1: on the All Ball Podcast is the potential for a
Speaker 1: rules change in college basketball high school basketball in terms
Speaker 1: of recruiting, and whether or not the n c A
Speaker 1: will have the NBA and NBA G League runs some
Speaker 1: of these camps for them. PEGM took place last week.
Speaker 1: Team Takeover one it they'd beat Team why Not and
Speaker 1: it was a great celebration of basketball. Victor Oladipo with
Speaker 1: Team why Not, and of course Russell Westbrook, excuse me,
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook with Team why Not? And Victor Oladipo with
Speaker 1: team takeover. The idea that so many of these and
Speaker 1: I know they're Nike guys and Nike legends, but Nike
Speaker 1: guys will show up and we'll give some of their
Speaker 1: money and some of their time to these kids who
Speaker 1: you know, want to look and believe that one day
Speaker 1: and somebody that Jim will be the next Kevin Garnett,
Speaker 1: will be that Kevin Durant was there, will be the
Speaker 1: next to Russell Westbrook will be the next victory of
Speaker 1: the depot. I think speaks well for where basketball is, uh,
Speaker 1: the part I would be really cautious of if I
Speaker 1: was the n c A and I'm not as sensitive
Speaker 1: to peach Jam because look, when when I played, we
Speaker 1: didn't have Peach Jam. We had AU tournaments or there
Speaker 1: was the AU National Championship, which nobody went to on
Speaker 1: the West Coast. The West Coast, we always did Vegas
Speaker 1: and Phoenix, and there would be Riverside Church would come
Speaker 1: out from New York, the Gauchos would come out from
Speaker 1: from New York. You get teams from Utah, Nebraska and
Speaker 1: all over the country. And then that was after ABC
Speaker 1: D Camp and there was a B c D, which
Speaker 1: was Princeton abc D which became Converse abc D, and
Speaker 1: Nike had their own camp and then it was Adidas
Speaker 1: abc D. We've done the camp thing, We've done the
Speaker 1: tournament thing. I do think the one thing that the
Speaker 1: E y b L has is they have a competitive
Speaker 1: spring structure. They have pretty darn good coaching and the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you have to win something in
Speaker 1: order to achieve the right amount of acclaim, whereas some
Speaker 1: of these other events now are no longer true tournament forms.
Speaker 1: They have to guarantee you games or your teams won't
Speaker 1: play in their event, and they're just kind of made
Speaker 1: for TV. You lose, you don't care as much as
Speaker 1: we cared. I remember losing in Vegas. Every time we
Speaker 1: lost in Vegas, I remember I we never never won
Speaker 1: the championship. We lost to be ABC. I think in
Speaker 1: the finals my senior year, Um, we lost to a
Speaker 1: Nebraska team. My junior year, you know, I think we
Speaker 1: lost to a team from Pennsylvania with Pete Less City
Speaker 1: my sophomore freshman or sophomore year. Like, I remember those
Speaker 1: losses more than any of the wins. And I do
Speaker 1: think that the one thing you've got to be cautious
Speaker 1: of with true camps. And I think, what what old
Speaker 1: school people whatever that came that commission came up with,
Speaker 1: is this kind of idealistic Hey, we'll have the old
Speaker 1: five star, will have stations and this is needed. Truly
Speaker 1: teaching is needed. But some of that exists with the
Speaker 1: Nike Skills Academy, some of that exists with some of
Speaker 1: these other events and other camps. It's it's not it's
Speaker 1: not perfect in any way, UM, but in completely tearing
Speaker 1: apart the system that's taking place, especially the good, like
Speaker 1: take some of the good out of it. True shoe
Speaker 1: companies UH can push guys in the direction of their
Speaker 1: representative schools, and that's not supposed to be what Showcase
Speaker 1: basketball is about. AU basketball is about teaching kids the
Speaker 1: game while getting them opportunities to play in college. There
Speaker 1: are some events which are really good. There are some
Speaker 1: events that are bad, and you have to be judicious
Speaker 1: with striking things down with one rule. Now, the caution
Speaker 1: to people who believe pech GM is the end all
Speaker 1: be all and if it goes away, all is good
Speaker 1: that goes away in the summer. My point is only
Speaker 1: that PHM has not been forever there will be some
Speaker 1: of their event, there will be some other way to
Speaker 1: do it. And while uh basketball coaches wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to a college basketball coaches wouldn't be able to attend
Speaker 1: events during a live period. And can't you just be
Speaker 1: virtually there? I mean, wouldn't it just be about things
Speaker 1: being televised or is there is there a loophole to
Speaker 1: which college basketball coaches could be like in a viewing
Speaker 1: room next door. They've always found a way to go
Speaker 1: around the rules. They've always found a way to see
Speaker 1: the kids. The kids for the most part, the good
Speaker 1: ones have been seen. One or two follow through the cracks.
Speaker 1: And so I don't think it's an arm Again, if
Speaker 1: these rules which were suggested are enacted again, that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean I think it's a good idea. Um. I just
Speaker 1: think there has to be things within reason. There should
Speaker 1: be more coaching, more teaching. It should be more about
Speaker 1: winning games than it is about showcasing players. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, you want to showcase guys. You want to
Speaker 1: give guys as many opportunities to be seen as humanly
Speaker 1: possible so that fewer and fewer slipped through the cracks.
Speaker 1: And you want to see the East versus the West,
Speaker 1: and the North versus the South. You want to see
Speaker 1: competitive basketball, So did you get a sense, you know,
Speaker 1: instead of watching film, we're watching kids compete against his
Speaker 1: high school team or is AU team? What it looks
Speaker 1: like against the other kids are let's buck come in
Speaker 1: from the athletic Ethan Strouss. He joins us here in
Speaker 1: the All Ball podcast, and Ethan, let me ask you
Speaker 1: your reaction to the quiet Leonard to mar de Rosen trade. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the first action, like much of the basketball intelligentia, is
Speaker 1: that it seems like a good deal for the Raptors
Speaker 1: and uh less of a great deal for the Spurs.
Speaker 1: And then that gives me a pause, because sometimes we're
Speaker 1: just wrong about saying, you know, especially when we when
Speaker 1: we all agree, that can tend to have. And remember
Speaker 1: when the Paul George trade was one of the Pacers
Speaker 1: got flattered in if if memory serves, I mean, that
Speaker 1: was the contentsist and now now look at it, look
Speaker 1: at Oladipo. So um, I don't love it for the
Speaker 1: Spurs in a vacuum, I don't, But I also didn't
Speaker 1: think that LaMarcus Aldred was really good for them, and
Speaker 1: he had quite a good season last season, so I
Speaker 1: just wonder if they look at the Martyr Rose and
Speaker 1: they see that he does something that has fallen out
Speaker 1: of fever in the mid rate jumper as LaMarcus didn't
Speaker 1: feel as though they can leverage that in the better
Speaker 1: shots and that they know what they're doing. So I
Speaker 1: had to guess a great deal for the Wraps. But
Speaker 1: I I'm still a little little little suspicious that maybe
Speaker 1: the Spurs pulled off something there. I um, look, I
Speaker 1: let's start with the Spurs side. I do think they
Speaker 1: were asking for too much and they chased the market
Speaker 1: away a little bit, right they You just you just
Speaker 1: start asking for like listen, we'll we'll think about Ingram
Speaker 1: or Kuzma, but Ingram and Kuzma and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you start going through and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: we want Josh Hard of course, and obviously the Lakers
Speaker 1: had to know something about I don't know if they
Speaker 1: knew he would perform as well at some releg as
Speaker 1: he performed, but they really really like Josh Hart for
Speaker 1: as much of their culture as much as anything else.
Speaker 1: And then you start talking about because I just I
Speaker 1: feel like they were asking for the Moon, the stars
Speaker 1: in the sun, and most of the league sitting there going, hey,
Speaker 1: you kind of got a depreciating asset there. Whereas the
Speaker 1: Raptors did want to get out of that deal. There
Speaker 1: are some limitations to derosan. I actually think San Antonio
Speaker 1: did well with all things considered. It's just are you
Speaker 1: closer that much closer to winning a championship when you
Speaker 1: have two players who are kind of players from a
Speaker 1: foregone era, right, like a post up a post up
Speaker 1: big in Aldrich and a mid range pull up guy
Speaker 1: in DeMar de Rosen. If this was you'd be great,
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's two thousand nineteen, and you know,
Speaker 1: you save face, but it's not like we're gonna pencil
Speaker 1: the Spurs in as a championship contender. Is that fair? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And as the side, doesn't it feel as though they
Speaker 1: never really respected Danny Green for all he did for them.
Speaker 1: Just I don't know what's up with that. It seems
Speaker 1: that that was always the guy that popped with yell
Speaker 1: at and scream at. And I know that last season
Speaker 1: wasn't a great season him and maybe maybe he's fallen off,
Speaker 1: and but he seems like somebody who could provide good
Speaker 1: value for a team, and so that's that's not a
Speaker 1: bad that's not a bad piece at all for for
Speaker 1: the Rappers. I will say this if I'm I'm trying
Speaker 1: to Devil's advocate, the position of maybe the Raptors aren't
Speaker 1: going to be as impressed, aren't going to be as
Speaker 1: happy as how this all goes. They've invited a lot
Speaker 1: of drama into their team and it's all based on
Speaker 1: this this this kind of that, you know, in a
Speaker 1: funny way, this isn't even basketball analysis. This is more
Speaker 1: of a look at how the culture of a city
Speaker 1: and how it changes in its self assessment. Canada has
Speaker 1: always had a little bit of that little Brother syndrome,
Speaker 1: and they've got that insecurity that Vince Carter is so
Speaker 1: so pressed on when he when he actually it out
Speaker 1: of there in the way that he did it. But
Speaker 1: now they're riding high. Now Toronto is cool. Now Drake
Speaker 1: has given it a little bit of verve, and now
Speaker 1: they think they're the city that if you come here
Speaker 1: you might not know it's great, but my you know,
Speaker 1: my god, you're going to be so impressed and you're
Speaker 1: not going to leave. I don't know if that's going
Speaker 1: to happen as somebody from and you can also have
Speaker 1: this perspective as well as somebody who also grew up
Speaker 1: in southern California. You can show me the law city
Speaker 1: of Atlantic and you told me that it gets the
Speaker 1: thirty below. I'm not going back under my own polition.
Speaker 1: I do NBA book. NBA players love Toronto though, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm not speaking out of turn. They
Speaker 1: love Toronto. And guy might be a different kind of guy. Correct. Anyway,
Speaker 1: That's that's the part that people are missing there, Like
Speaker 1: NBA guys love Toronto. They do, but he's not sure
Speaker 1: normal NBA guy. And I would also say that there
Speaker 1: is well, everyone's hitching their wagon to the Hey, you
Speaker 1: know Paul George. Paul George said he was coming. Um.
Speaker 1: The one thing that's interesting about the Paul George thing is,
Speaker 1: you know, Russell Westbrook was his best friend. They were
Speaker 1: so close man leading up. Then he signs a new
Speaker 1: deal and I fall Russell Westbrook on Instagram and I've
Speaker 1: noticed that he continues to travel the world. I've also
Speaker 1: noticed Paul is not traveling with him. But they're like,
Speaker 1: you are best friends to a point, so uh, you know, look,
Speaker 1: I think Kauai ends up likely in Los Angeles, and
Speaker 1: I think Toronto knows this, and they're willing to roll
Speaker 1: the dice because on their kind of timeline, they gotta
Speaker 1: win and win now, otherwise they canna blow that thing
Speaker 1: up and start over. Anyway. Yeah, that's I don't want
Speaker 1: to burst anybody's bubbles listening, but most NBA players are
Speaker 1: not actually friends with one another. It's very similar to
Speaker 1: when you go into the office and you see Gary
Speaker 1: and the cubicle, and you you know, Gary's the Packers fans.
Speaker 1: So maybe you go, oh, the Packers one, and then
Speaker 1: you you know, that's that's about it, and that's the arrangement.
Speaker 1: It's not you know, most of these guys aren't friends
Speaker 1: and most of them aren't enemies. It's somewhere in between,
Speaker 1: just looking any working en firement. But with Paul George,
Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder if that was just taked by
Speaker 1: his agent not having a great relationship with the Lakers
Speaker 1: after what happened to Angela Russell. That was the stubble
Speaker 1: bud coming out of the summer League, So that might
Speaker 1: have been a special situation that isn't necessarily applicable to
Speaker 1: the Kauai Leonard situation where it looks like you would
Speaker 1: saw off his left left arm in order the good
Speaker 1: Los angel Ethan Strouss joining us House of Strauss is
Speaker 1: his podcast. It's a really really good when a smart
Speaker 1: way at looking at the game. Uh, that that we
Speaker 1: all love. I encourage you to download it. He's kind
Speaker 1: of to join us here on the All Ball podcast. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm Doug gottlieb Okay, so ah, what about Summer League?
Speaker 1: I know you spend time there. I don't want to
Speaker 1: go too crazy about it. Most people know Miles Simon
Speaker 1: is my best friend in basketball. He did a great job.
Speaker 1: He's done an incredible job helping these young players develop.
Speaker 1: And I really think that people are starting to see
Speaker 1: what the Lakers are building around Lebron James slowly kind
Speaker 1: of morphin come together. Am I overvaluing what I saw
Speaker 1: from Josh Hart and the assumption that others in the
Speaker 1: Purple and Gold are going to improve, maybe not at
Speaker 1: the exact same level, but at a similar level around him.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're overrated because they loved Josh
Speaker 1: Harten Turtley and have loved Josh Harden. Maybe the thing
Speaker 1: to um, maybe the negative be the downside is more
Speaker 1: the organizational chaos is chaos is too strong word. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure that this odd situation where Lebron effectively is
Speaker 1: an agent as well as a superstar basketball player, where
Speaker 1: the Lakers love Josh Hart. Okay, so they love Josh Hart,
Speaker 1: then why would you give contagious call twelve million dollars
Speaker 1: considering everything going to happen last year? I think we
Speaker 1: all know why. I think we know it doesn't have
Speaker 1: a lot to do with how well because he's play
Speaker 1: of last year, right, because he's wrapped by Chris Paul, Right,
Speaker 1: And you want to say that I didn't like it either,
Speaker 1: and I know he was. They didn't love him, But
Speaker 1: I think that's what that's about, right, Yeah, That's what
Speaker 1: that's about it. And so I guess the question is
Speaker 1: is that can you can you have things happen like
Speaker 1: that on the margins and still be successful. You certainly
Speaker 1: could in the past with Lebron and his full prime,
Speaker 1: and it's why it's very difficult. I think it's le
Speaker 1: brought anything because you can tell him that a lot
Speaker 1: of the things you do with his teammates aren't the
Speaker 1: best A lot of things you knew might be a
Speaker 1: little destabilizing too, anganization, and he can point to absolutely
Speaker 1: just a ruinous situation in Cleveland that he turned into
Speaker 1: a championship. So I think it's difficult to tell him anything.
Speaker 1: But I do wonder if, at this phase in his career,
Speaker 1: um if it's if you can have things like that
Speaker 1: continue to happen on the margin and have the level
Speaker 1: of success that you want to have in a conference that,
Speaker 1: let's face it is almost like an entirely different lead
Speaker 1: than the East. It's almost like the East is triple
Speaker 1: A and this is the Major's I don't know if
Speaker 1: you can do that, and maybe you can, but I
Speaker 1: have my suspicions. I have my reservation. I do I
Speaker 1: do as well. What do you make of the Jimmy
Speaker 1: Butler situation? I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, is it is it fair just to not
Speaker 1: have a good take on that one? Let's hear what? Okay?
Speaker 1: This is now, this is not what you want from
Speaker 1: a guest at all, But I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: for your take and maybe I'll riff on it. What
Speaker 1: is your take on the Jimmy Butler situation. If I'm honest,
Speaker 1: If I'm honest, all I really wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: when I came on here was the war that you're
Speaker 1: having on Twitter over this whole soccer US soccer player situation.
Speaker 1: That was the conversation. Well, we'll get to that one.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in one second. I know it's all,
Speaker 1: but but real, real quickly. And Jimmy Butler, I think
Speaker 1: he knows those dudes, those aren't his kind of dudes. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just not he's not buying into it. I think
Speaker 1: he wants to be frankly in l a uh. If not,
Speaker 1: he would find some other big market. But I think
Speaker 1: he's tired of messing around with it. I think like
Speaker 1: that guy's we talked about guys being wired differently. I
Speaker 1: think Jimmy Butler is wired to where he wants a
Speaker 1: chance to compete for the whole thing, and I just
Speaker 1: don't think they he thinks they have it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: wonder if it's a bit of a referendum on cat
Speaker 1: um and if that's a guy who so talented, so
Speaker 1: much buzz we hyped him up. We instantly for a
Speaker 1: second forgot about Anthony Davison. Made him the next guy,
Speaker 1: and I just don't know defensively he's ever going to
Speaker 1: be an impact player. And that's a big problem for
Speaker 1: a big It is the responsibilities aren't evenly divided. More
Speaker 1: of your response ability is defensive, the bigger you are
Speaker 1: or the bigger position that you play. And I I
Speaker 1: just wonder that's a bit of a referendum because if
Speaker 1: he was somebody who fit the potential, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that you see that. And I I just that situation.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gone. It hasn't gone as well.
Speaker 1: It's not going as well given the talent level. And
Speaker 1: I wonder, I just wonder if Thibodeaux in his role
Speaker 1: has has done everything he needs to do, I would agree,
Speaker 1: and I agree with you, all right, let's get to
Speaker 1: the let's get to the soccer thing. My assertion is
Speaker 1: my my assertion is really really simple, and that I
Speaker 1: understand there are other issues with US soccer, completely understand um.
Speaker 1: But we also look, we live in a country with
Speaker 1: incredible resources, not just financially but in terms of the
Speaker 1: the volume of quality athletes. And because of football and
Speaker 1: because of basketball, I think that the best players, the
Speaker 1: best athletes all around athletes. And if people think of
Speaker 1: athleticism may simply think of speed and jumping ability. There's
Speaker 1: a lot more to it than that. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: by and large, they all go away from soccer, whether
Speaker 1: they have access to it when they're five or six
Speaker 1: or not, or many of them do not. They don't
Speaker 1: pick up a soccer ball. And if they were to,
Speaker 1: if we were to create a way in which it
Speaker 1: was cool to play soccer growing up, then I think
Speaker 1: we would dominate because we have just go look at
Speaker 1: I mean, take a look at your favorite incredible athlete
Speaker 1: in basketball. You mean to tell me that Russell Westbrook
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a great soccer player had he played it
Speaker 1: from a young age. Um, if if the size, if
Speaker 1: the size of Lebron James, Like, well, there's no not
Speaker 1: that kind of athlete. Not think there's no six seven
Speaker 1: guys playing soccer. Okay, that's fine. Like if you want
Speaker 1: to keep this to a six ft four or below,
Speaker 1: just look at the guards and the Patrick Beverley's and
Speaker 1: the Nate Robinson's of the world. These freak athletes that
Speaker 1: choose to play basketball or football above soccer. Until we
Speaker 1: change that, we're always going to be dealing with you
Speaker 1: mentioned j V versus varsity. That's really what it is.
Speaker 1: Whereas the best athletes in these other countries, they grew
Speaker 1: up playing soccer and then maybe they grow too big
Speaker 1: and they have to become basketball players. It works the
Speaker 1: opposite way. So I agree with you in the macro.
Speaker 1: But I think one of the reasons why you're getting
Speaker 1: the push factor getting despite regular soccer snobbery, which can
Speaker 1: be obnoxious, UM, is that it's not necessarily always completely
Speaker 1: translatable and all about athleticism. And you know this idea
Speaker 1: that we take a really athletic guy, I mean we
Speaker 1: have him in a soccer context, he might not have
Speaker 1: the foot coordination because that specific skill set UM, that
Speaker 1: would be necessary to dominated as a soccer player. So
Speaker 1: I think that you are right. I think of the
Speaker 1: country of our size, with our resources, if we were
Speaker 1: actually devoted to it, if you're actually committed to do it,
Speaker 1: if we have the pipeline that you're talking about, then
Speaker 1: yes we would dominate, um. But we would also need
Speaker 1: is to be trained in that specific skill set. You know.
Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit of how football snobs
Speaker 1: will get angry when people would say that Lebron could
Speaker 1: have dominated as a tight end and they would say, Oh,
Speaker 1: if you don't understand the intricatees of blah blah bla,
Speaker 1: you would have dominated. But that's or they say, like,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a basketball guy. He doesn't want to
Speaker 1: take contact. Like here's the thing. What wide receiver goes like?
Speaker 1: You know, I can't wait, I can't wait to get
Speaker 1: ear hold. You know that doesn't doesn't exist. He's six
Speaker 1: ft seven two hundred sixty pounds six two d sixty pounds,
Speaker 1: Like I think it's a tight end wide receiver, he'd
Speaker 1: be Okay, do I think he wants to get your hold? No,
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody wants to get your hold quite
Speaker 1: quite frankly, No, so and and you're right right, and
Speaker 1: and you're and you're right. There are things about soccer
Speaker 1: that you have to play to learn. But I also
Speaker 1: think that we're under selling the level of intelligence, spatial recognition,
Speaker 1: how to you know, also how you move your hips,
Speaker 1: how you move your feet. The great basketball players, great
Speaker 1: football cornerbacks. Wide receivers have incredible feet, incredible feat a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, if you ask NB, I guess like
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that the Lakers weren't high on
Speaker 1: Julius Randall, even after having his best statistical career as
Speaker 1: a pro. Is like he just has he just has
Speaker 1: really bad footwork that they've they're trying. They tried all
Speaker 1: season desperately to kind of fix, but you can only
Speaker 1: clean up so much. And so the idea isn't just like, hey,
Speaker 1: we got more speechs. Look and Bob Ay. I understand
Speaker 1: he has a lot of skill, but a lot of
Speaker 1: what he was able to do is just pure raw
Speaker 1: speed quickness that so few have. And I do think
Speaker 1: that we have hundreds, if not thousands of those caliber
Speaker 1: athletes that are being developed in other sports and they're
Speaker 1: not being developed in soccer. I would generally agree with that.
Speaker 1: I would, And I'm reminded how much Jerry West, when
Speaker 1: he was at the Warriors, was frustrated with Harrison Barnes,
Speaker 1: who's foot work and that was constant lamentum is And
Speaker 1: that is an aspect that can take you from a
Speaker 1: pretty good NBA player maybe something a little bit better.
Speaker 1: So I agree. I think people, for whatever reason, blanche
Speaker 1: at the idea that a lot of what what what's
Speaker 1: good in sports is translatable. I don't know why. We
Speaker 1: could come up with various theories as to why, but
Speaker 1: I think they want to feel as though their sport
Speaker 1: is very, very special, and maybe that's what you're bumping
Speaker 1: up against is. And then you're also bumping up against
Speaker 1: the idea that oh of you know, ugly American, arrogant
Speaker 1: American blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm mostly with you.
Speaker 1: It's very uh. For whatever reason, I was just so
Speaker 1: amused to see it become such a fight in people
Speaker 1: to be so so passionate about this, this hypothetical, and
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. I love conversations like the last last thing,
Speaker 1: and then we gotta run. Um sure, okay, So now
Speaker 1: the East. Let's say assume Kauai place, because I don't
Speaker 1: think you can sit for two straight years rank the
Speaker 1: East as quickly as you can. These are such tough questions.
Speaker 1: I think I would go, Oh, that's top. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just flipped Boston and Philly in my mind. You know,
Speaker 1: I struggle. I struggle with both of those. I guess
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go Philly based on talent. I'll go Boston,
Speaker 1: and I'll go Toronto. And after that it gets a
Speaker 1: little bit it gets a little bit murky for me.
Speaker 1: But that's my top three. What is your top sie?
Speaker 1: I go Boston far and away number one. Oh, I go,
Speaker 1: you know what, I might bump up Indiana about Toroada.
Speaker 1: I might. I might just do it. I like what
Speaker 1: the Wizards have done. I kind of like what the
Speaker 1: Bucks have done. I think the East is pretty good.
Speaker 1: Do I think it's as deep as the West? I don't.
Speaker 1: I do think we're forgetting how good if healthy Kyrie
Speaker 1: is and Gordon Hayward is, and assuming Jason tam improves
Speaker 1: in his second year, which he should, Jalen Brown continue
Speaker 1: has improved, I still put Boston one. I put put
Speaker 1: it with Marcus, with Marcus Smart coming back to uh,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I slipped that. Maybe I go Okay,
Speaker 1: Now I'm all over the place. I like the Piecers,
Speaker 1: like what the Pacers did a lot. I'm into the
Speaker 1: UM and I think Miles Turner is very underrated and
Speaker 1: still on the upswing. So I gotta say this idea
Speaker 1: that the Rappers are automatically the best in the East
Speaker 1: is not something I'm on board with, especially because we
Speaker 1: just don't know what we're getting from Kauai and with
Speaker 1: what motivation and they have brand new and they have
Speaker 1: brand new coach. And I like Nick I played for him,
Speaker 1: but I'll be interested to see House of Strauss is
Speaker 1: the podcast etan great stuff, awesome conversation. Really appreciate you
Speaker 1: joining us, Thanks for having me. So that's it for
Speaker 1: this episode of All Ball. Make sure you subscribe, you download,
Speaker 1: you rate us. Listen to The Dug Gottlieb Show live
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio daily three to six Eastern time,
Speaker 1: twelve to three Pacific in Stay tuned. Next week we'll
Speaker 1: have a great recap of the first couple of weeks
Speaker 1: of the open recruiting period, and we think, now that
Speaker 1: the dust is settled, will begin to take a look
Speaker 1: at all that has changed the NBA rosters. Keep listening,
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. I'm Doug Gatland. This is all Boston.
Speaker 1: H