WEBVTT - Iwan Wirth 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.080 Welcome to River Cafe Table for a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:05.400 and Adami's Studios. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:12.960 My good friend Ivanworth, the Swiss gallerist co founder of Hauserenworth, 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.880 and I met through a mutual admiration and love for 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.880 the artist Philip Guston. I grew up in Woodstock, New York, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.639 where Philip and his wife Musea Meyer were close friends 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.200 of my parents. When some years ago the Gustin estate 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:32.680 chose Hauserenworth to represent them, Ivan and his wife Manuela 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.600 came to tea. We began talking that day about art 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.400 and food and family and we really haven't stopped since. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.639 Having one restaurant, I personally cannot imagine having a gallery. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.320 But not only does Ivan have fifteen galleries all over 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.560 the world, he has four restaurants, a farm, a farm shop, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.440 two hotels and soon a bar and a restaurant in 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.080 the center of London. How does he do it all? Honestly, 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.720 I don't know, but maybe after this conversation about family 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.720 and food, I will. Let's begin with grouse. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.840 Thank you, Ruthie. Well, I'm going to read to you 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:21.280 one of my favorite recipes, Roast grouse with County Classical. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:26.199 It serves four. So you need four grouse, eight plum 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:32.680 tomatoes peeled, four thick slices of sour though two tablespoon 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:38.440 sage leaves, eight sprigs of thyme, two hundergram unsalted butter 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.440 half a liter County classical. You have to preheat the 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:49.400 oven to two hundred and twenty degrees. Stuff each of 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:55.080 these birds with sage, thyme, and butter season well. Put 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.560 the grouse in a buttered pan, breastside down, roast for 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.240 five minus its. Turn them over, Add the wine, tomatoes 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.680 and cook for fifteen minutes, based adding the bread to 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.320 soak up some of the juices. Roast for another ten minutes. 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.760 Then remove the grouse, tomatoes and bread from the pan, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.160 add the butter and wine, and over high heat reduce. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.600 Serve each bird on the tomato porschetta with the sauce 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:30.640 poured over. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.400 Thank you, Ivan, and I was so thrilled that you 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.760 wanted to have grass as your recipe. Why is that? 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:46.680 It's something that I actually discovered in Britain and it 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.799 comes from larger from Scotland now or Yorkshire. It's seasonal, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.560 so it's not like fish or you know, it's very 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.440 it's seasonal. It's the winter at the fall the winter 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.600 a bit like marshroom. I fell in love with the taste. 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.280 I love the food of autumn, don't you, Because it's 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.239 kind of people always say summer food, it's so perfect 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.800 and so but I think for cooks, the actual experience 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.760 of autumn when it comes to white truffles, for chini, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.240 the grouse, you know. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:16.280 It all comes together. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.320 Do you remember where you had it the first time? 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.079 Was it in a restaurant or someone's home? 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.920 No? Actually I headed at somebody's house and it was 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.000 interesting because half the guests didn't want to touch it, 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:32.200 and they were not rigid there and they said no, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:33.760 thank you, and they got chicken. 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.920 There's something fantastic about eating a whole bird, isn't it 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.560 something that when you get the bird on your plate, 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.600 with the bones and the and the experience of having, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.720 you know, serving somebody on their plate. 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.480 And you work for your food, and you really have 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.280 to be biting the. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.120 We started very young with your first gallery, didn't you. 0:03:54.800 --> 0:04:02.320 Yeah, eighty six. I started to sell art, and what 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:08.800 really I realized very quickly was that to share the 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.440 bread with an artist or with a client both. Yeah, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.520 it's the way to people's hearts, you know, really the 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.520 most important critical moments in my life in that that 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:24.159 were good. The positives one were usually about having a meal, 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:26.440 sharing a meal, and would that. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:28.680 Would that be in a restaurant or. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.360 That would that is you? Well, it was early on 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.360 it was, and now of course it's been. Sometimes it's 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.240 in studios and we share, but it's bad food. Yeah, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.599 and break the bread with someone, eat, have lunch, dinner, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.960 pick whatever, and you have a glass of wine. You 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:47.040 people speak from their. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.120 Heart, I agree, and it tells you so much. We're 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.640 talking about how very often people will want to take 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.720 a date or if they meet somebody, they'd like to go 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.680 to a restaurant, because sitting at a table or at 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.599 home the way somebody tells you a lot about the person. 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.920 My passion for eating and food and drink was something 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.680 that I discovered in the artists I liked. And it 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.159 can be very different. You know. It rarely ever, is 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.840 about micheline type of food. It's not. Some are more 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:20.160 passionate about what they all share. Is this intimacy, which 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:22.680 is a controlled intimacy because you sit on a table 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.200 with someone they love that. But I coming from Switzerland 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.440 working with some of the Swiss artists. The food was 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.880 integral part of there, but even the work. You know, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.680 one of my heroes was is did the Wrath and 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:42.119 he made from the sixties on art that of food. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.080 Also, do you think that there's something about working in 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.279 your studio all day, that solitariness of working as you know, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.440 I know that in New York a lot of the 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.000 abstract Expressionists and a lot of the young painters of 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.400 the seventies where they went to Max's or to the bars, 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.520 you know, and they congregated there and there was a 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.560 lot of drink and a lot of food. Do you 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.920 think that that's part of that? Also getting together and 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.080 sharing and being around the table and talking as well. 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.400 Being an artist is largely a lonely, a lonely pro 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:18.080 solitary profession, and particularly I find that painters are more 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:22.640 lonely or solitary than than sculptors or other because you 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:28.280 work in you have a team, and so I think 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.920 the reason some of the great painters today have people 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.440 that are around them, yeah, is of course to help them, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.520 because it's complicated. You've got to you've got to be 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.839 you know, it's not just making the work. Now, there's 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.720 they said the world's gotten more complicated. The shows all 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.640 over the world. There's logistical reasons, but there's also about solitude, 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.039 being lonely being and and some artists have have and 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.080 I've seen some beautiful kitchens in studios. Yeah, yeah, it 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.920 really is phenomenal. When I go to Mark Bradford studio, 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.200 he has say, well, he has an he has an 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.680 interesting relationship to food. I wouldn't say he's he's not. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:11.080 He doesn't cook. He's really la he orders, or he 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.280 goes to mexic or he has some of my favorite meals. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.640 There is when his when the Lopez family that worked 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.560 with him assistances, and it's an entire clan, the family 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.720 when the father comes and he cooks a Mexican lunch 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.360 and it's the grill and it's the sauces, and it's like, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.240 oh god, so but he also has a kitchen. And 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.800 then or was Fisher, who has as is a passionate 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.760 about food, has published cookbooks of other people. It's quite 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:45.560 the common nomination. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.840 And our mutual friend Philip Gustin is to come. They 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.800 had a teeny tiny little kitchen, I remember that, but 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.520 they beautifully. When he went there, there was always a 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.680 very simple way of eating. But he loved food and 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.320 he can They came to my parents' house a lot 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.760 to eat. If they would call up in the afternoon 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.600 and Philip would say, Sylvia, I'm coming for supper. And 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.160 you know, but he was our link. And that's how 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.200 we first met, was when you came coming to see 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.360 the Gustines. As I was saying the relationship between art 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.000 and food, and I have to say, your galleries and food, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.040 and so is there anyone else has a gallery in 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.920 Los Angeles and opened up Manuela's, which is a fantastic 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:35.679 restaurant downtown LA Great great compliment the art, great compliment 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.880 to you talk about art and food. Who else would 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:45.000 for their fiftieth birthday have a cookbook? A cookbook as 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.360 a present, which I think all your friends in every city. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:53.040 Manuela really orchestrated this. I was lucky enough to be 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.800 asked to participate. And it's one of my favorite cookbooks 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:00.760 because it does actually combine, you know, food and love, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.679 doesn't it. Every page is a recipe, but every page 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.360 is about a relationship that you have with food and 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.000 with your friends. And so how do you feel when 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:12.720 you look at this book and see. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.160 Oh, I was crying when I got it. So I 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.880 got Manila secretly started two years before my fiftieth birthday, 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.760 which was last year. The concept of this was she 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.840 invited and you were one of them, very kindly beautiful 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.560 to contribute to this cookbook a recipe that was meaningful 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.280 to them. She then organized in us in the places 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.160 we were, they cooked one of the recipes. So this 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:41.080 community that we built up with love thirty years together 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.599 came together and the book shows pictures from it. It 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:49.000 chose the recipes. It's very touching. I have goosebumps every time, 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.000 and then everybody. For some people it was the last 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:58.120 meal they had together. That was so when people got 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.800 the book during COVID, I sent it out to you 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.079 and everybody that came they said they were, they were, 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.760 they felt the same, and so you see how important 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:09.720 for everyone it really is. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.359 Tell me about early childhood in Switzerland. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.640 Well, I I grew up in the mountains near the mountains, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.040 the sort of pre Alps and the Tockenburg particular area. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:31.360 My father is from uppen Zel, which is a mountainous 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.240 area in Switzerland. That's where cheese comes from. And you 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.080 know the Bishop Burger ads always the up and cel 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.360 and the folk art. And my mother is Italian. Half 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:47.320 Italian family. Italian family is from the Alps, from the Dolomites, 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:55.560 from so the mountains and wilderness, if you like, played 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.560 a big part in my life. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.680 There was stoking, a big thing in your house. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.360 What did they cook in Switzerland? You you go home 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.160 over for lunch. It has its it has both sides. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.880 I mean, it keeps the mothers at home. But it 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.679 was of course also everybody got together three times a day, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.080 so we came home for lunch with breakfast. We came 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:19.840 home for lunch and come home from dinner. So it's 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.280 not the day school. And that meant that there was 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.080 always cooking. My mother would be she would work and 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.960 cook and it all happened at the same time. So 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.559 she was working with She was a teacher. 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.439 So she would come home from teaching. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.320 Or she would work half time, or she's been going 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.640 through She was a passionate teacher all the life. She 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.760 in the end taught refugees kids German, but no cooking 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:47.880 and food. And my grandfather, I mean, I mean, my 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.240 grandfather is one of the earliest memories really that generation 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.559 of Italian immigrants in Switzerland didn't want to be Italian. 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.959 The only thing he would still do is the cooking. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.400 Is was a lot of Italian and the swearing. But 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.840 he couldn't speak Italian. He couldn't speak Italian to anyone. 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.600 So I only remember him swearing Italian. But they came before, 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.080 you know, they came just before the First War, so 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.120 turn of century came. 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.160 So they cooked the food of the Dolomites. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.760 And well I remember him doing risotto in the in 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:23.480 the kitchen. Yeah, And so I have more memories, interestingly 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.319 of cooking and food in a way about my grandparents 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.439 than about home. His home was just part of like 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.319 but my grandfather from there was the you know, there 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.600 was also a great tradition. Friday was apple tart with 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.840 the soup or fish, and then you had was a 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.080 ceremonial cooking. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.000 Your grandfather was in the kitchen cooking. That's unusual, it 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.440 isn't it for an Italian man. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:49.480 Well, only on the weekend. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:50.160 Okay. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.640 He was from a family of stovemasons, and so he 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:58.079 had a constructive smoke construction company. But the weekend it 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.160 was a ritual and we lived from the moment we 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.520 lived in his town. Again we were living elsewhere when 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.760 we came back, we went there regularly, you know, on 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.920 the weekends. And that was that was just an and 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.040 one of the smell, the take the smell and him 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.120 doing the risotto. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.760 Was that's a memories that we're saying. And what about 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:24.400 the Swiss side? What would you if you would have 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.520 resortas and Italian food? What did you have from the Swiss? 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.920 My father was a mountaineer. He was an architect and 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.720 still is my mother and father still alive. But he 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.080 was a very you know, a mountaineer. He is. He 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.840 was a member, early member of the Alpine Club. He 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.640 was then a president for many years of the Eastern 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.440 section of the Alpine Club. Retired this year last year. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.760 So we it's the food of the mountain huts and 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.160 what is that? So it's the food of the mountains. 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.600 We were the The Alpine Club has hundreds of huts, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.360 I don't know how many, but all over the Alps, 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.760 and as a member you can stay and eat and 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.480 it's cooked by dedicated people that live there for a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.160 season and it's very basic food. So one of my 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:18.120 favorite dishes of all time is this barley barley soup 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.280 that is the guests and soup. That's how I grew up. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:24.680 It's just barley. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.880 Well it has dried meat in it. Yeah, so it's barley, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.960 It's got some herbs. It is a broth and the 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.600 dried meat comes in in the end. It's very rich 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.280 and a bit of milk or cream cream. So it's 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.560 a very rich soup. One of the most delicious soup. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.040 I mean, I grew up on these type of soups. 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.320 And when you arrive in your hot you well, you 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.080 have a sandwich on the mountainop, but then you go 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.640 back to the hut and that's the soup. It's because 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.920 they can prepare it and heat it up a few times. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.280 So it was amazing. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.320 That's a kind of an amazing image to think that would 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.480 you have the soup out of the mountains as well? 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.240 Would you have it, would you have it when you 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.400 weren't hiking for the last twelve hours, and would you 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:11.920 sit down to a soup like that? 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.400 Oh no, we'd still do. I mean, if I go 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.120 back to Switzerland now and we go to the mountains 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.600 and you arrive and you want to have a lungourin 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.280 or something small and something just something basic. I would 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.200 have a guest and some bit. So it's like a 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.680 great plate of it's a bit like a pasta, like 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.600 a spaghetti. You know, it's it's it's it's not. Well, 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.040 it's not that easy to make it good. Very basic, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.000 but you've got to be precise. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.640 That's what we know. Isn't it the few ingredients you have, 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:42.880 you've never attempted it? 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.600 No? Oh no, no, I wouldn't. I couldn't do. No, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.800 it's some dishes that are so connected with the place 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.480 you would not go near it. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.800 So often you come here with your children for dinner. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.080 You come to my house with your children. Tell me 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.000 about cooking as a family. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.920 So the kitchen is the heart of our house. So 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:22.200 we Manuela being a cooking instructor. But before she joined 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.840 the gallery, she is just she's the master of ceremonies. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:26.480 I didn't know that. 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.920 Oh yeah she could. I mean she cooks. This is 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:34.600 an extraordinary chef, and so she would orchestrate all five 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:39.400 of us. Everybody can can contribute to what is cooked today. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.920 That's the first question in the morning is what are 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:47.000 we cooking for supper? So no, it's extraordinly important. It's 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.560 where everything's being discussed very old fashioned. I mean that's Manreela. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:57.000 She lost her father young her Urslo worked so and 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.680 he had two siblings and Orcelan didn't come for lunch. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.680 I like my mother because she worked and Manreela cooked. 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.480 There's great pictures of Mariella standing and they'll stand cooking 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:13.720 for the siblings. And so it's a critical integral part 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.399 of the well being of our family and what we 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.960 do now with very strange. So if if twice a 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.760 week or as we feel, two kids are not there 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.840 studying America, the oldest two in America, so we would 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.920 when we are doing dinner, we FaceTime them and they 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.600 sit and we put them on and they are there. Scotland, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:40.400 the kitchen is is this marvelous, marvelous big room and 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.639 it's big, got a big table where we eat and 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.040 another big table where we cook, and an open fire 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.000 and so we love, we love doing that. And one 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.400 of the highlights of my early life childhood was actually 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.560 going to the woods and I was a boy scout. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:17:59.680 Manrela was a boy scout too, by the way, so 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.480 we word camp and we would cook on the fire. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.280 And so that's still to me an absolute highlight. And 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.240 the sausage, the wheal sausage, which is a pork sausage. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.719 We would when I'm in Switzerland take them over and 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.840 we I love the English sausages and we have occasionally them, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.720 but you can't stick them on a you can't put 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.600 them on a stick. They follow, so you need a grill. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.119 The Swiss sausage you can really put on a on 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.439 a stick. So we would go down in the woods 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.400 in Somerset and do once a week if weather allows, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.000 and during COVID it was three times a week. We 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.359 do barbecue in the woods. And then the kids grew 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.960 up and to this day they do it. They do 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:41.840 this the snake bread. And Manuela, in fact is her 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.840 grandfather and grandmother were bakers. They're a bakery. So I mean, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.879 it's it's been a family, so it's baking. It's I 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.679 don't like baking so much and I really don't like 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.159 making Christmas cookies. But the kids are crazy. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.960 So they are I think again, you know, they can 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.479 connection doing something together, the family being together, eating together, 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.480 the process and the idea that you sit down to 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.639 dinner in your FaceTime, you know, because of the gab. 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.920 It's so beautiful we have and we show the food 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.760 and we share the pictures and we send pictures of 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:23.600 each other boat they make spetsley. Eliass does loves doing spetsley. 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.919 How did you find being in lockdown? You had your 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:27.919 children with you. 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.560 We were lucky. We were in Somerset on the farm 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.640 and our Lockdown project was Manuela's dream of a farm 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.640 shop that we opened. Now tell me about the farm show. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:47.280 So it's almost a social practice. So it's an entrepreneurial approach. 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:52.800 We invite small businesses from the area to come up 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.359 with ideas for products or they have products and we 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.040 sell them there in addition to our own. It's a 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.439 community farm show. Yeah, and we sell a lot of 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:08.080 produce from farmers as well and produces small local producers. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.120 Then we have some Swiss essentials like we do have 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.000 some We have two Swiss jeeses, so one from where 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.120 we are from and another one from Niyakstad. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.800 So frutiful. The idea that you go to a city, 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.600 you go to, you go to the country, you go 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.159 to you know, to the wilds of Scotland, and you 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:32.000 create you create a link through food and so food 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.440 is connection. Food is memory of your time in Switzerland 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.920 and your grandparents. And of course it's also a comfort 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.359 isn't it. And so my last question to you is 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.600 what is your comfort food. 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:50.199 My comfort food is a dish. I'm afraid it's a swete. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.159 I think it's a very sweet ish. It's called Bierka musli. 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.480 So it's amuse. Yes, I need comfort food, sometimes for breakfast, 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.119 sometimes at lunch, or sometimes for dinner. And it's one 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.200 of the few dishes that you can really eat any 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:06.879 hour of the day, you can, you know. And and 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.760 the peninsula in La used to have a Swiss chef 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.040 and there was always the best boot muslin in America. 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:15.560 And I got there and I had it literally any 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.639 time of the day. But it's hard to make, to 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.080 make it right. It's a bit like the Barsley soup, 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.040 and it's it's it lasts all day. It's for me 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.720 and Alma. Actually my daughter, our daughter put it in 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.920 here as in our cookbook, the fifty Year Cookbook. So 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.840 it's the musli, the Swiss burgermusi. And that would be 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:38.879 my comfort phot I'd love to share it with you 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.800 one day. I'd be happy to try try and make 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:43.800 one for you. I can do it. Actually, I can 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:44.080 do it. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:45.280 I'll be there. Thank you. 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.480 I love you, thank you, thank you so much. 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.119 To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.640 to shop the River Cafe dot co dot uk. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.360 Rivercafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios. 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:20.639 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:22.680 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.