1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table for a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: and Adami's Studios. 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: My good friend Ivanworth, the Swiss gallerist co founder of Hauserenworth, 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: and I met through a mutual admiration and love for 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: the artist Philip Guston. I grew up in Woodstock, New York, 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: where Philip and his wife Musea Meyer were close friends 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: of my parents. When some years ago the Gustin estate 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: chose Hauserenworth to represent them, Ivan and his wife Manuela 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: came to tea. We began talking that day about art 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: and food and family and we really haven't stopped since. 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,639 Speaker 2: Having one restaurant, I personally cannot imagine having a gallery. 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: But not only does Ivan have fifteen galleries all over 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: the world, he has four restaurants, a farm, a farm shop, 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: two hotels and soon a bar and a restaurant in 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: the center of London. How does he do it all? Honestly, 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: I don't know, but maybe after this conversation about family 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: and food, I will. Let's begin with grouse. 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 3: Thank you, Ruthie. Well, I'm going to read to you 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 3: one of my favorite recipes, Roast grouse with County Classical. 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 3: It serves four. So you need four grouse, eight plum 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: tomatoes peeled, four thick slices of sour though two tablespoon 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: sage leaves, eight sprigs of thyme, two hundergram unsalted butter 23 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: half a liter County classical. You have to preheat the 24 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: oven to two hundred and twenty degrees. Stuff each of 25 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: these birds with sage, thyme, and butter season well. Put 26 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: the grouse in a buttered pan, breastside down, roast for 27 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: five minus its. Turn them over, Add the wine, tomatoes 28 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 3: and cook for fifteen minutes, based adding the bread to 29 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: soak up some of the juices. Roast for another ten minutes. 30 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: Then remove the grouse, tomatoes and bread from the pan, 31 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: add the butter and wine, and over high heat reduce. 32 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: Serve each bird on the tomato porschetta with the sauce 33 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: poured over. 34 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: Thank you, Ivan, and I was so thrilled that you 35 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: wanted to have grass as your recipe. Why is that? 36 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: It's something that I actually discovered in Britain and it 37 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 3: comes from larger from Scotland now or Yorkshire. It's seasonal, 38 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 3: so it's not like fish or you know, it's very 39 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: it's seasonal. It's the winter at the fall the winter 40 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: a bit like marshroom. I fell in love with the taste. 41 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: I love the food of autumn, don't you, Because it's 42 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 2: kind of people always say summer food, it's so perfect 43 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: and so but I think for cooks, the actual experience 44 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: of autumn when it comes to white truffles, for chini, 45 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: the grouse, you know. 46 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: It all comes together. 47 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: Do you remember where you had it the first time? 48 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: Was it in a restaurant or someone's home? 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 3: No? Actually I headed at somebody's house and it was 50 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: interesting because half the guests didn't want to touch it, 51 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 3: and they were not rigid there and they said no, 52 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 3: thank you, and they got chicken. 53 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: There's something fantastic about eating a whole bird, isn't it 54 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: something that when you get the bird on your plate, 55 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: with the bones and the and the experience of having, 56 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: you know, serving somebody on their plate. 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: And you work for your food, and you really have 58 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: to be biting the. 59 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: We started very young with your first gallery, didn't you. 60 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, eighty six. I started to sell art, and what 61 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: really I realized very quickly was that to share the 62 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 3: bread with an artist or with a client both. Yeah, 63 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: it's the way to people's hearts, you know, really the 64 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: most important critical moments in my life in that that 65 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: were good. The positives one were usually about having a meal, 66 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: sharing a meal, and would that. 67 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: Would that be in a restaurant or. 68 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 3: That would that is you? Well, it was early on 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 3: it was, and now of course it's been. Sometimes it's 70 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: in studios and we share, but it's bad food. Yeah, 71 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 3: and break the bread with someone, eat, have lunch, dinner, 72 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: pick whatever, and you have a glass of wine. You 73 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 3: people speak from their. 74 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Heart, I agree, and it tells you so much. We're 75 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: talking about how very often people will want to take 76 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: a date or if they meet somebody, they'd like to go 77 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: to a restaurant, because sitting at a table or at 78 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: home the way somebody tells you a lot about the person. 79 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: My passion for eating and food and drink was something 80 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 3: that I discovered in the artists I liked. And it 81 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 3: can be very different. You know. It rarely ever, is 82 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 3: about micheline type of food. It's not. Some are more 83 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: passionate about what they all share. Is this intimacy, which 84 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: is a controlled intimacy because you sit on a table 85 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: with someone they love that. But I coming from Switzerland 86 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: working with some of the Swiss artists. The food was 87 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: integral part of there, but even the work. You know, 88 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: one of my heroes was is did the Wrath and 89 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,119 Speaker 3: he made from the sixties on art that of food. 90 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: Also, do you think that there's something about working in 91 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: your studio all day, that solitariness of working as you know, 92 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: I know that in New York a lot of the 93 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: abstract Expressionists and a lot of the young painters of 94 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: the seventies where they went to Max's or to the bars, 95 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: you know, and they congregated there and there was a 96 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: lot of drink and a lot of food. Do you 97 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: think that that's part of that? Also getting together and 98 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: sharing and being around the table and talking as well. 99 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: Being an artist is largely a lonely, a lonely pro 100 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: solitary profession, and particularly I find that painters are more 101 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: lonely or solitary than than sculptors or other because you 102 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 3: work in you have a team, and so I think 103 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: the reason some of the great painters today have people 104 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: that are around them, yeah, is of course to help them, 105 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: because it's complicated. You've got to you've got to be 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 3: you know, it's not just making the work. Now, there's 107 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 3: they said the world's gotten more complicated. The shows all 108 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: over the world. There's logistical reasons, but there's also about solitude, 109 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 3: being lonely being and and some artists have have and 110 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: I've seen some beautiful kitchens in studios. Yeah, yeah, it 111 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 3: really is phenomenal. When I go to Mark Bradford studio, 112 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: he has say, well, he has an he has an 113 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: interesting relationship to food. I wouldn't say he's he's not. 114 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 3: He doesn't cook. He's really la he orders, or he 115 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: goes to mexic or he has some of my favorite meals. 116 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: There is when his when the Lopez family that worked 117 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: with him assistances, and it's an entire clan, the family 118 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 3: when the father comes and he cooks a Mexican lunch 119 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: and it's the grill and it's the sauces, and it's like, 120 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: oh god, so but he also has a kitchen. And 121 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: then or was Fisher, who has as is a passionate 122 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: about food, has published cookbooks of other people. It's quite 123 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: the common nomination. 124 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: And our mutual friend Philip Gustin is to come. They 125 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: had a teeny tiny little kitchen, I remember that, but 126 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: they beautifully. When he went there, there was always a 127 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: very simple way of eating. But he loved food and 128 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: he can They came to my parents' house a lot 129 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: to eat. If they would call up in the afternoon 130 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: and Philip would say, Sylvia, I'm coming for supper. And 131 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: you know, but he was our link. And that's how 132 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: we first met, was when you came coming to see 133 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: the Gustines. As I was saying the relationship between art 134 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: and food, and I have to say, your galleries and food, 135 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: and so is there anyone else has a gallery in 136 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: Los Angeles and opened up Manuela's, which is a fantastic 137 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: restaurant downtown LA Great great compliment the art, great compliment 138 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: to you talk about art and food. Who else would 139 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: for their fiftieth birthday have a cookbook? A cookbook as 140 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: a present, which I think all your friends in every city. 141 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: Manuela really orchestrated this. I was lucky enough to be 142 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: asked to participate. And it's one of my favorite cookbooks 143 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: because it does actually combine, you know, food and love, 144 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: doesn't it. Every page is a recipe, but every page 145 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: is about a relationship that you have with food and 146 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: with your friends. And so how do you feel when 147 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: you look at this book and see. 148 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: Oh, I was crying when I got it. So I 149 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 3: got Manila secretly started two years before my fiftieth birthday, 150 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: which was last year. The concept of this was she 151 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: invited and you were one of them, very kindly beautiful 152 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 3: to contribute to this cookbook a recipe that was meaningful 153 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 3: to them. She then organized in us in the places 154 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: we were, they cooked one of the recipes. So this 155 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 3: community that we built up with love thirty years together 156 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 3: came together and the book shows pictures from it. It 157 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: chose the recipes. It's very touching. I have goosebumps every time, 158 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: and then everybody. For some people it was the last 159 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: meal they had together. That was so when people got 160 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: the book during COVID, I sent it out to you 161 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 3: and everybody that came they said they were, they were, 162 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: they felt the same, and so you see how important 163 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: for everyone it really is. 164 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,359 Speaker 2: Tell me about early childhood in Switzerland. 165 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 3: Well, I I grew up in the mountains near the mountains, 166 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: the sort of pre Alps and the Tockenburg particular area. 167 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 3: My father is from uppen Zel, which is a mountainous 168 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: area in Switzerland. That's where cheese comes from. And you 169 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 3: know the Bishop Burger ads always the up and cel 170 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: and the folk art. And my mother is Italian. Half 171 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: Italian family. Italian family is from the Alps, from the Dolomites, 172 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 3: from so the mountains and wilderness, if you like, played 173 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 3: a big part in my life. 174 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 2: There was stoking, a big thing in your house. 175 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: What did they cook in Switzerland? You you go home 176 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: over for lunch. It has its it has both sides. 177 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: I mean, it keeps the mothers at home. But it 178 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 3: was of course also everybody got together three times a day, 179 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: so we came home for lunch with breakfast. We came 180 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 3: home for lunch and come home from dinner. So it's 181 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: not the day school. And that meant that there was 182 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 3: always cooking. My mother would be she would work and 183 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: cook and it all happened at the same time. So 184 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: she was working with She was a teacher. 185 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: So she would come home from teaching. 186 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 3: Or she would work half time, or she's been going 187 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: through She was a passionate teacher all the life. She 188 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: in the end taught refugees kids German, but no cooking 189 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: and food. And my grandfather, I mean, I mean, my 190 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 3: grandfather is one of the earliest memories really that generation 191 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 3: of Italian immigrants in Switzerland didn't want to be Italian. 192 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 3: The only thing he would still do is the cooking. 193 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: Is was a lot of Italian and the swearing. But 194 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 3: he couldn't speak Italian. He couldn't speak Italian to anyone. 195 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 3: So I only remember him swearing Italian. But they came before, 196 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: you know, they came just before the First War, so 197 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 3: turn of century came. 198 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: So they cooked the food of the Dolomites. 199 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: And well I remember him doing risotto in the in 200 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: the kitchen. Yeah, And so I have more memories, interestingly 201 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 3: of cooking and food in a way about my grandparents 202 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 3: than about home. His home was just part of like 203 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 3: but my grandfather from there was the you know, there 204 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: was also a great tradition. Friday was apple tart with 205 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 3: the soup or fish, and then you had was a 206 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 3: ceremonial cooking. 207 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: Your grandfather was in the kitchen cooking. That's unusual, it 208 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 2: isn't it for an Italian man. 209 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 3: Well, only on the weekend. 210 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: Okay. 211 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 3: He was from a family of stovemasons, and so he 212 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 3: had a constructive smoke construction company. But the weekend it 213 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: was a ritual and we lived from the moment we 214 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: lived in his town. Again we were living elsewhere when 215 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: we came back, we went there regularly, you know, on 216 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: the weekends. And that was that was just an and 217 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: one of the smell, the take the smell and him 218 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 3: doing the risotto. 219 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: Was that's a memories that we're saying. And what about 220 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: the Swiss side? What would you if you would have 221 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: resortas and Italian food? What did you have from the Swiss? 222 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: My father was a mountaineer. He was an architect and 223 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 3: still is my mother and father still alive. But he 224 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 3: was a very you know, a mountaineer. He is. He 225 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: was a member, early member of the Alpine Club. He 226 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: was then a president for many years of the Eastern 227 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: section of the Alpine Club. Retired this year last year. 228 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: So we it's the food of the mountain huts and 229 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: what is that? So it's the food of the mountains. 230 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: We were the The Alpine Club has hundreds of huts, 231 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: I don't know how many, but all over the Alps, 232 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: and as a member you can stay and eat and 233 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: it's cooked by dedicated people that live there for a 234 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 3: season and it's very basic food. So one of my 235 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 3: favorite dishes of all time is this barley barley soup 236 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: that is the guests and soup. That's how I grew up. 237 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: It's just barley. 238 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 3: Well it has dried meat in it. Yeah, so it's barley, 239 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: It's got some herbs. It is a broth and the 240 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: dried meat comes in in the end. It's very rich 241 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: and a bit of milk or cream cream. So it's 242 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 3: a very rich soup. One of the most delicious soup. 243 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I grew up on these type of soups. 244 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 3: And when you arrive in your hot you well, you 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: have a sandwich on the mountainop, but then you go 246 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: back to the hut and that's the soup. It's because 247 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 3: they can prepare it and heat it up a few times. 248 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 3: So it was amazing. 249 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: That's a kind of an amazing image to think that would 250 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: you have the soup out of the mountains as well? 251 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: Would you have it, would you have it when you 252 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 2: weren't hiking for the last twelve hours, and would you 253 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: sit down to a soup like that? 254 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 3: Oh no, we'd still do. I mean, if I go 255 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: back to Switzerland now and we go to the mountains 256 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: and you arrive and you want to have a lungourin 257 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 3: or something small and something just something basic. I would 258 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: have a guest and some bit. So it's like a 259 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 3: great plate of it's a bit like a pasta, like 260 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: a spaghetti. You know, it's it's it's it's not. Well, 261 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: it's not that easy to make it good. Very basic, 262 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: but you've got to be precise. 263 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: That's what we know. Isn't it the few ingredients you have, 264 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: you've never attempted it? 265 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 3: No? Oh no, no, I wouldn't. I couldn't do. No, 266 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 3: it's some dishes that are so connected with the place 267 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: you would not go near it. 268 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: So often you come here with your children for dinner. 269 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: You come to my house with your children. Tell me 270 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: about cooking as a family. 271 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: So the kitchen is the heart of our house. So 272 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: we Manuela being a cooking instructor. But before she joined 273 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: the gallery, she is just she's the master of ceremonies. 274 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: I didn't know that. 275 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: Oh yeah she could. I mean she cooks. This is 276 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 3: an extraordinary chef, and so she would orchestrate all five 277 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: of us. Everybody can can contribute to what is cooked today. 278 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 3: That's the first question in the morning is what are 279 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: we cooking for supper? So no, it's extraordinly important. It's 280 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: where everything's being discussed very old fashioned. I mean that's Manreela. 281 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: She lost her father young her Urslo worked so and 282 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: he had two siblings and Orcelan didn't come for lunch. 283 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 3: I like my mother because she worked and Manreela cooked. 284 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 3: There's great pictures of Mariella standing and they'll stand cooking 285 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 3: for the siblings. And so it's a critical integral part 286 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 3: of the well being of our family and what we 287 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 3: do now with very strange. So if if twice a 288 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 3: week or as we feel, two kids are not there 289 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: studying America, the oldest two in America, so we would 290 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 3: when we are doing dinner, we FaceTime them and they 291 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 3: sit and we put them on and they are there. Scotland, 292 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 3: the kitchen is is this marvelous, marvelous big room and 293 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 3: it's big, got a big table where we eat and 294 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: another big table where we cook, and an open fire 295 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 3: and so we love, we love doing that. And one 296 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 3: of the highlights of my early life childhood was actually 297 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: going to the woods and I was a boy scout. 298 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 3: Manrela was a boy scout too, by the way, so 299 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 3: we word camp and we would cook on the fire. 300 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 3: And so that's still to me an absolute highlight. And 301 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: the sausage, the wheal sausage, which is a pork sausage. 302 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 3: We would when I'm in Switzerland take them over and 303 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: we I love the English sausages and we have occasionally them, 304 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 3: but you can't stick them on a you can't put 305 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: them on a stick. They follow, so you need a grill. 306 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: The Swiss sausage you can really put on a on 307 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 3: a stick. So we would go down in the woods 308 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 3: in Somerset and do once a week if weather allows, 309 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: and during COVID it was three times a week. We 310 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 3: do barbecue in the woods. And then the kids grew 311 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: up and to this day they do it. They do 312 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 3: this the snake bread. And Manuela, in fact is her 313 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 3: grandfather and grandmother were bakers. They're a bakery. So I mean, 314 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 3: it's it's been a family, so it's baking. It's I 315 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 3: don't like baking so much and I really don't like 316 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 3: making Christmas cookies. But the kids are crazy. 317 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: So they are I think again, you know, they can 318 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 2: connection doing something together, the family being together, eating together, 319 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: the process and the idea that you sit down to 320 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 2: dinner in your FaceTime, you know, because of the gab. 321 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 3: It's so beautiful we have and we show the food 322 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 3: and we share the pictures and we send pictures of 323 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: each other boat they make spetsley. Eliass does loves doing spetsley. 324 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: How did you find being in lockdown? You had your 325 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 2: children with you. 326 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: We were lucky. We were in Somerset on the farm 327 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: and our Lockdown project was Manuela's dream of a farm 328 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 3: shop that we opened. Now tell me about the farm show. 329 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: So it's almost a social practice. So it's an entrepreneurial approach. 330 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 3: We invite small businesses from the area to come up 331 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: with ideas for products or they have products and we 332 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: sell them there in addition to our own. It's a 333 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 3: community farm show. Yeah, and we sell a lot of 334 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 3: produce from farmers as well and produces small local producers. 335 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 3: Then we have some Swiss essentials like we do have 336 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: some We have two Swiss jeeses, so one from where 337 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 3: we are from and another one from Niyakstad. 338 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: So frutiful. The idea that you go to a city, 339 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: you go to, you go to the country, you go 340 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 2: to you know, to the wilds of Scotland, and you 341 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: create you create a link through food and so food 342 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: is connection. Food is memory of your time in Switzerland 343 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: and your grandparents. And of course it's also a comfort 344 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: isn't it. And so my last question to you is 345 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: what is your comfort food. 346 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 3: My comfort food is a dish. I'm afraid it's a swete. 347 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 3: I think it's a very sweet ish. It's called Bierka musli. 348 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 3: So it's amuse. Yes, I need comfort food, sometimes for breakfast, 349 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 3: sometimes at lunch, or sometimes for dinner. And it's one 350 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 3: of the few dishes that you can really eat any 351 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 3: hour of the day, you can, you know. And and 352 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 3: the peninsula in La used to have a Swiss chef 353 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 3: and there was always the best boot muslin in America. 354 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: And I got there and I had it literally any 355 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 3: time of the day. But it's hard to make, to 356 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 3: make it right. It's a bit like the Barsley soup, 357 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 3: and it's it's it lasts all day. It's for me 358 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: and Alma. Actually my daughter, our daughter put it in 359 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 3: here as in our cookbook, the fifty Year Cookbook. So 360 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: it's the musli, the Swiss burgermusi. And that would be 361 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: my comfort phot I'd love to share it with you 362 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: one day. I'd be happy to try try and make 363 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: one for you. I can do it. Actually, I can 364 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: do it. 365 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: I'll be there. Thank you. 366 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: I love you, thank you, thank you so much. 367 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go 368 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 2: to shop the River Cafe dot co dot uk. 369 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: Rivercafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Adamized Studios. 370 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 371 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.