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Speaker 1: This episode contains subscriptions of sexual abuse of miners that

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Speaker 1: might be distressing for some listeners. Please take care as

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Speaker 1: you listen. There were nights when the screaming wouldn't stop.

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Speaker 1: Books hit the wall, a chair scraping violently across the floor.

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Speaker 1: Then another crash, louder, this time like something wooden snapping

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Speaker 1: in half. From the hallway, a few young seminarians stood frozen,

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Speaker 1: eyes wide listening.

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Speaker 2: Inside.

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Speaker 1: Maciel was screaming, not words exactly, sounds guttural, furious, as

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Speaker 1: if something was teering through him. He shoudered to the heavens,

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Speaker 1: cursed the devil, pleaded for mercy, and then silence. When

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Speaker 1: the door finally creaked open. The next morning, Masille stepped out,

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Speaker 1: his eyes sunken, His face was pale and soaked with sweat.

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Speaker 2: His voice was hoarse.

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Speaker 1: When he spoke, he would tell them he'd been battling

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Speaker 1: the devil, that demons had come for him in the night,

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Speaker 1: and that only his prayers, his suffering, had kept them

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Speaker 1: at bay, and they believed him. To those inside the Legion,

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Speaker 1: the screaming was a sign of holiness, a man so

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Speaker 1: close to God, the devil floot to take him, but

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Speaker 1: there was another explanation, one far less divine. Masielle was

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Speaker 1: an fighting spirits. He was in withdrawal. He was addicted

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Speaker 1: to the Latina, a powerful operiod used for severe pain,

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Speaker 1: and when he couldn't get it, the suffering was real,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't holy, it was chemical.

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Speaker 2: He didn't hide it.

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Speaker 1: He wrapped it in the language of sacrifice, told his

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Speaker 1: followers it was pain for a purpose, that each injection

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Speaker 1: was a test from God. One seminarian later recalled administering

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Speaker 1: up to forty injections in.

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Speaker 2: A single day.

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Speaker 1: Mosiel even sent seminarians to get him the drug. Boys,

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Speaker 1: barely teenagers, were sent to nearby pharmacists, walking up to

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Speaker 1: counters with shaky prescriptions and forged names, always asking for

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Speaker 1: the same drug, always to the same address. At first

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Speaker 1: the pharmacists were confused, then suspicious. Then in nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 1: a pharm assistant San Sebastian, Spain, made a report to

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Speaker 1: the authorities. The pattern was impossible to ignore. That's how

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Speaker 1: they found him. When the police picked him up, Masiele

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Speaker 1: blamed his own seminarians, said they had misunderstood, that they'd

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Speaker 1: made mistakes, that he wasn't responsible for anyone else's addiction.

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Speaker 1: By the next day, the phone calls had started, quiet, powerful,

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Speaker 1: coming from inside the church. Someone offered a bribe seventy

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Speaker 1: thousand dudos, a small fortune at the time, worth thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars today, And just like that, the paperwork vanished,

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Speaker 1: the churches disappeared, and Masielle walked free. Looking back, it's

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Speaker 1: astonishing how many times Marcielle slipped through. Every time his

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Speaker 1: dirty secrets threatened to become public, he escaped. And the

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Speaker 1: story of Marseille's pain, it's the key to this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a pain that would spread from Masiell to his

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Speaker 1: many victims across the years. Decades later, in nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: Jason Barry's article pulled Mazille's hidden life into the light.

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Speaker 1: For the first time, the world could read the accusations,

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Speaker 1: the years of abuse, the cover ups. It should have

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Speaker 1: been the moment everything shattered, but it wasn't. Masille's empires

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Speaker 1: stayed intact, his power held, the Vaticans stayed silent. Most

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Speaker 1: people would have given up after the article, speaking out

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Speaker 1: and seeing nothing change, but one man didn't. One of

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Speaker 1: Marseille's victims. He had spoken to Jason Barry for the

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Speaker 1: article the Man behind the Box that armed Jason with names,

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Speaker 1: documents and testimonies. His name is Josel Barba. He was

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Speaker 1: once a proud member of the Legion. Then he became

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Speaker 1: a victim of Mosiel. Josel once believed he would dedicate

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Speaker 1: his life to God. He ended up spending his life

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Speaker 1: fighting for justice. This episode is about Cosel, the pain

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Speaker 1: he refused to bury and the fight he never let

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Speaker 1: go off. My name is Elena Sadah and this is

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Speaker 1: secret Scandal, the Many Secrets of Marcelle Moseiel. Episode four,

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Speaker 1: The Pains. Josef Barba was a child when he entered

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Speaker 1: the Legion of Christ. He came from a small town

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Speaker 1: in Halisco, Mexico, not far from where Marsell was born.

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Speaker 1: His family was devout, disciplined, and proud of it, and

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Speaker 1: jose was everything a good Catholic boy should be, bright, obedient,

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Speaker 1: and eager to serve. His mother was one of Marseille's

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Speaker 1: first followers, and to her, the best way to support

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Speaker 1: the mission was by giving her son to it. So

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Speaker 1: Roosel was sent to Quinta Patelli when he was eleven

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Speaker 1: years old. Quinta Patelli was a kind of a religious

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Speaker 1: training ground, a boarding school for the first generations of

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Speaker 1: legionary recruits. The grounds had a private lake, a soccer field,

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Speaker 1: a bowling stables. It felt like stepping into a dream.

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Speaker 1: For Jose those early days were magical. He remembers it still,

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Speaker 1: at eighty eight years old. He remembers everything behind his

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Speaker 1: thick glasses, his sharp blue eyes don't miss a detail.

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Speaker 1: He's a man of quiet elegance, always wrapped in long coat,

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Speaker 1: cashimeir's scarf, a tweet cap and a can. When he

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Speaker 1: talks about those childhood years at Quinta Pacelli, there's a

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Speaker 1: fondness in his voice.

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Speaker 3: We certainly had norms and rules, but within this we

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Speaker 3: had a freedom of selection, of friendship. We had happiness

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Speaker 3: we could enjoy, and there was no secrecy.

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Speaker 1: But when the summer of nineteen fifties came, everything changed.

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Speaker 1: At twelve years old, who has stood at the port

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Speaker 1: of Veracruz a small suitcase in hand, the sea went

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Speaker 1: tugging at his clothes. He's been chosen to continue his

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Speaker 1: studies across the ocean in Spain, far from his family

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Speaker 1: and from the only country.

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Speaker 2: He'd ever known.

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Speaker 1: The ship waiting before him was called El Marquez de Comedias,

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Speaker 1: a massive transatlantic liner bound for another.

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Speaker 3: Life, from Vera Cruz to Havana, from Havana to New

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Speaker 3: York City, and then from New York to Spain in

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Speaker 3: La Coruna, and then from La Coruna to Santander, a journey.

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Speaker 1: Across the ocean, from childhood to something else entirely in Spain,

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Speaker 1: who said would continue his studies and start his road

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Speaker 1: towards priesthood. It was the highest honor a Catholic mother

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Speaker 1: could dream of, and Jose wanted to make her so proud.

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Speaker 1: That's what it meant so much to him. When Masielle

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Speaker 1: took a special interest in him, it felt like a

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Speaker 1: kind of quiet approval, a sign he was on the

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Speaker 1: right path. Masiell spent long hours mentoring Jose, talking about God,

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Speaker 1: about faith, but also asking strange questions, uncomfortable questions, especially

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Speaker 1: for someone who was.

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Speaker 2: Going through peverty.

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Speaker 1: Jose was at that awkward age when the body starts

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Speaker 1: to change and nothing makes sense.

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Speaker 3: That summer, he had asked me, in a very strange way,

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Speaker 3: if I knew the way children were born and in

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Speaker 3: the same supposed to be spiritually direction, He asked me

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Speaker 3: whether I like women or men, and I felt very offended,

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Speaker 3: and I said, of course I like women. Of course

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Speaker 3: I like women.

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Speaker 1: Mazielle disguised these conversations as spiritual guidance. One minute he

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Speaker 1: was quoting the Bible, the next asking about sex. He

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Speaker 1: said they were lessons, but they felt more like traps.

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Speaker 3: So he started talking about the material birds and bees

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Speaker 3: and flowers and so on, and the pollen.

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Speaker 1: Jose had only a faint idea of how children were born.

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Speaker 1: Masielle's weird talk about the birds and the bees was

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Speaker 1: the closest thing he'd ever get the sex education inside

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Speaker 1: the legion. And the problem wasn't just what Mazille said,

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Speaker 1: It was what happened when Josse started to ask real questions.

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Speaker 3: And then I said, I was very surprised, and so

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Speaker 3: why if this is so beautiful and gives life, why

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Speaker 3: when something happens in another way? It's a scene.

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Speaker 1: Masille's face hardened, house I could feel he had done

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Speaker 1: something terribly wrong, and he was.

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Speaker 3: So mad, and he's creamed at me and said, how

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Speaker 3: do you dare to discuss God?

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Speaker 1: What God wants for someone seeing a spiritual leader. Masielle's

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Speaker 1: behavior was highly erratic. He was moody and volatile. There

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Speaker 1: were days when everything was calm and days when the

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Speaker 1: slightest comment set him off. Back then, jose I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to make of Mozille's sudden mood swings. But

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Speaker 1: looking back now, it's kind of obvious. This wasn't just

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Speaker 1: a bad temper. He was in withdrawal. People with addictions

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Speaker 1: often behaved this way. Their moods go up and down

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Speaker 1: depending on when they got their last fix, and that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what this was.

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Speaker 2: Mazille wasn't just sick.

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Speaker 1: He was addicted to a powerful opiate called do lentina,

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Speaker 1: a drug in the same family as morphine, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't even try to hide it. In fact, he often

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Speaker 1: sent young legionaries to get it for him. He'd asked

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Speaker 1: them to go to the pharmacy in his name and

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Speaker 1: request lentina. Some of them didn't even know what it was,

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Speaker 1: just that mister Padden needed it badly, and the older

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Speaker 1: Maciele got, the more visible the problem became. Many pharmacists

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Speaker 1: already had him flagged, like the one instance of Astienne

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Speaker 1: where he got arrested. They would refuse him off the

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Speaker 1: bat but Mozille didn't let that stop him. He was

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Speaker 1: bold and shameless. He wrapped his pain in religious language,

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Speaker 1: making it sound like it was this sacred burden, that

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Speaker 1: his suffering was holy. Jose remembers the first time he

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Speaker 1: saw Masile's needle marks on his arm.

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Speaker 3: He raised his left, his left the part of his jacket,

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Speaker 3: and he showed us, and he said, you see, my children,

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Speaker 3: this is what I have to do in order to

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Speaker 3: continue the work of the Lord.

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Speaker 1: Josef felt the mix of awe and sorrow watching Masile

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Speaker 1: suffer like that. He almost wished he could carry the

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Speaker 1: pain for him.

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Speaker 3: And I remember very clearly that I asked God to

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Speaker 3: pass me his infirmity, because he was needed and I

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Speaker 3: was not needed.

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Speaker 1: To jose those little marks weren't just a sign of illness.

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Speaker 1: They were proof of a man willing to endure anything

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Speaker 1: for his mission. The kind of suffering Sains were made of.

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Speaker 1: Jose was so impressed by Massile's sacrifice he told his

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Speaker 1: mother during her next visit.

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Speaker 3: I told her with great admiration, because for me, that

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Speaker 3: was a sign of sanctity. But my mother was very

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Speaker 3: diffident and looked at me in a strange way that

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Speaker 3: I didn't know how to interpret, and I said, and

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Speaker 3: who does he inject on himself? That made me feel

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Speaker 3: that something was not right.

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Speaker 1: Something was definitely not right. I remember when I first

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Speaker 1: began to notice the mood swings and the sudden disappearances.

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Speaker 1: Massiel I would say he wasn't feeling well, that he

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Speaker 1: was in pain from the sudden cramps in his abdomen.

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Speaker 1: He said it was something he'd carried for years. By

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Speaker 1: late afternoon, he would start to sweat, grow tense and irritable.

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Speaker 1: Then he would retreat to his room to pray. The

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Speaker 1: pain was part of the myth of who Nosterpado was.

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Speaker 1: What no one could have imagined, how he used that

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Speaker 1: pain over and over again as the perfect excuse to

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Speaker 1: hide something darker, and how in the name of that

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Speaker 1: pain he would destroy dozens of lives, including Kossays will

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Speaker 1: be right back. Five years had passed since Josef first

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Speaker 1: boarded that ship to Spain. He was now seventeen, a

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Speaker 1: teenager cut in that confusing in between his body changing,

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Speaker 1: his thoughts, shifting, feeling shame without knowing why. And in

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Speaker 1: the legion there was nowhere to put that confusion. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't ask questions because everything was considered impure, even the

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Speaker 1: things you didn't understand. He was far from home, surrounded

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Speaker 1: by stone walls and Latin prayers. He had no one

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Speaker 1: to talk to. But inside him something was steering, a

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Speaker 1: growing tension between what he was told to believe and

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Speaker 1: what his body was starting to tell him. Then one day,

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Speaker 1: on a visit to Rome, it all exploded.

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Speaker 3: I remember by one time in a square in Rome

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Speaker 3: whore I by accident touch a woman in the front.

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Speaker 1: It happened in a narrow Roman square, just a few

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Speaker 1: blocks from the heart of Vatican City. The afternoon sun

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Speaker 1: spilled over the crowd of tourists, pilgrims, and locals. Jose

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Speaker 1: was wearing his cassock, standing in line with other seminarians,

217
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: and then it happened. A woman pushed past, trying to

218
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: squeeze through the crowd. His arm brushed against his chest.

219
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,479
Speaker 1: Just for a split second, his breath stopped. It meant nothing,

220
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,400
Speaker 1: but it felt like a sin.

221
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,439
Speaker 3: I had to go to confess because I had touched

222
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:40,919
Speaker 3: a woman.

223
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 1: Even accidental contact required confession. That night, the priest asked him, did.

224
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 3: You feel pleasure? I said, not, all the opposite.

225
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: Josef felt a shame. For weeks, he couldn't stop thinking

226
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: about it. In the Legion there were no mentors, they

227
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: were only confessors, So he tried to bury his feelings,

228
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,439
Speaker 1: threw himself back into his studies, tried to act like

229
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:18,719
Speaker 1: nothing had happened. But something had changed, and not just

230
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 1: inside him. The world around him started to feel off,

231
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:29,719
Speaker 1: the routines, the glances, even Moziel. Then, out of nowhere,

232
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 1: Masilee summoned him for a short field trip that in

233
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 1: itself wasn't unusual. Mazilee often traveled with a small entourage

234
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,560
Speaker 1: of young Legionnaires he trusted. This time, Josel was among them.

235
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 1: Their destination a quiet town in southwestern France, near the

236
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: Spanish border. The group stayed in a modest hotel, but

237
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: for the boys it was a great honor. Mosile had

238
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: personal he chose them. They were excited, laughing in the lobby,

239
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 1: whispering about who got to sit closest to him at lunch.

240
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: And then something really strange happened. Myself was assigning rooms

241
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 1: to each of the boys, calling out names, giving them keys.

242
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,120
Speaker 1: But then when it came to his cistern, he.

243
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: Was distributing the rooms but I was surprised that he

244
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 3: did not assign me a room, and he was taking

245
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 3: me to the final room that was for him. And

246
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 3: then I felt bad and returned back. And I entered

247
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 3: one of the rooms where I had seen some of

248
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 3: my companions assigned, and I asked them to allow me

249
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 3: to pull a mattress to the floor, and I slept

250
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: on the floor.

251
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: Hoself felt on his for the rest of the trip.

252
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,959
Speaker 1: I got feeling that something wasn't quite right, but he

253
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 1: brushed it off, told himself not to overthink it. Maybe

254
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 1: he was imagining things, so he kept his head down,

255
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 1: tried to stay helpful, obedient, invisible. Then a few months later,

256
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 1: back in Rome, Mazille summoned him again, this time to

257
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 1: the infirmary. As I walked into the room, it was dim,

258
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: the blinds half drawn. The air smelt like aloane mixed

259
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: with something medicinal. In the corner, another young legendary stood

260
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 1: by the window. His back was turned, holding his post

261
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 1: like a silent sentinel guarding off intruders. Before we continue,

262
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: I want to take a moment to pause. What he

263
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: says about to describe is an account of sexual abuse.

264
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: The details are painful, and maybe difficult to hear. Masille

265
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,479
Speaker 1: was lying on the bed, half of his body in

266
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: the shadows. He spoke in a low voice, asking Joseid

267
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: to sit beside him.

268
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 3: He said, sat, sit down on the edge of the bed,

269
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 3: and I put a pillow between him and me. And

270
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: he said, why do you do that? Approached me. I said, no,

271
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: I have been sweating. I was working near the near

272
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 3: the swimming pool and said, oh, no, no. He took

273
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: them the pillow away, and he said, come near, and

274
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 3: then he said he had his pain in his genital area.

275
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: The boy thought Massilee's pain was abdomino, that's the version

276
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: he had heard over and over. But now Masille was

277
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: pointing much lower, and Josef felt a kind of fear

278
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: he didn't yet have words for.

279
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 3: And he asked me if he if I would allow

280
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 3: give him some massage.

281
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 2: He froze.

282
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: Every instinct told him to get up and leave the room.

283
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: But how could he.

284
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: This was Massiele, his founder, the most sacred man he

285
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: had ever known. He thought about his spain, his sacrifice,

286
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: his needle marks. How would he know better than mister Patter.

287
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: He told himself this was part of the mission, that

288
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: maybe this was wholly too, but he couldn't move, so

289
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: he just stood still.

290
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 3: You would feel that I'm crazy, But the other time,

291
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: I was so convinced of his entity.

292
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: When Mazille saw that Hossel was hesitating, he tried another strategy.

293
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: He said, specifically, I had permission from Bias the twelve

294
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 3: for some nuns to give me massage in my inner parts,

295
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: meaning his pen is. On so own.

296
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: Mazille said he had permission from the Pope himself, that

297
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: the massages were merely a medical treatment, And just like that,

298
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: everything who said thought he knew began to crumble. His

299
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: head was spinning. If the Pope had allowed it, then

300
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't the sin. Maybe it was necessary, a

301
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: way to help the pain. The problem was when Josel

302
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: was confused. Massiel was a man he turned to the

303
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: one who always had all the answers, But now when

304
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: he needed guidance the most, there was no one left

305
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: to ask, because the only person he trusted was the

306
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: one violating him.

307
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: When he asked me to give him massage around his pinis,

308
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 3: I was tense, extremely tense. My hand was open in

309
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 3: a sign as refusing that. He got mad. He took

310
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 3: my hand, and he took it out with impatience, and

311
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 3: he said, you do not know how to do it.

312
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: That's when Masielle grew impatient and pushed her Say's hand away.

313
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 3: He started unbottom my pants and he started to saying,

314
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: I want to explain where I feel the pain.

315
00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: I want to.

316
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 3: Explain exactly to you. And I said, oh no, please,

317
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: I already understood. Please don't I understood, and I turned

318
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: my body on myself and I insisted until he took

319
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: my pennies and he started mas serving in a hideous way.

320
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 3: I had never felt that.

321
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: For the sake of clarity, who says talking about masturbation

322
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: or what seventeen year old has said thought was masturbation.

323
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't until years later that he would be able

324
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: to name what it actually was sexual abuse.

325
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: I have never touched myself, much less mast served and

326
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 3: he as a crazy man, as a madman. I feel

327
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: under the influence. He was not doing it as if

328
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 3: you really wanted to give me pleasure, as if he

329
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: were mad. I only remember that I cried, I stood up,

330
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: I took the way out while he cried, return stay here.

331
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: I didn't pay obedience, and I went to the nearest

332
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 3: bedroom outside the corridor.

333
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: W second up and changed. Then he went back to

334
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: the room where Massier was.

335
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 3: He was standing up with the white short of rope,

336
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 3: his clergyman was on. He was putting some cologne water

337
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: on his hands.

338
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: Massile stood there composed, come adjusting his sleeves. Then he

339
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: stepped outside by the poll to bless the outdoor lunch.

340
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 1: The rest of the boar were gathering in the courtyard,

341
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: laughing beneath the bluest sky, like it was just another Thursday,

342
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: like none of it had happened.

343
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: Who says, kipt lunch that day.

344
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: I was crying and crying alone in my bedroom. I

345
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do. I did not know what

346
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: to do.

347
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: Who said?

348
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: Didn't tell anyone, not that day, not for years. He

349
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: made himself believe that maybe somehow he had done the

350
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: right thing, that in some strange way, he had just

351
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: helped myself out with his pain. But he knew something

352
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: was wrong. For a while, he felt as if his

353
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: body smelled weird, no matter how often he based. Later,

354
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: Josse would write that compared to what other victims endured,

355
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: he had been, in his own words, relatively fortunate. He

356
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: experienced three episodes of sexual violence. The second came just

357
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: a week after the first, when Masill called him back

358
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: and forced the kiss, shoving his tongue into Hoss's mouth.

359
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: The third when he was forced to witness another boy

360
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: touching Masile on an Italian beach. Nine years later, in

361
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, he couldn't bear it anymore.

362
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: He no longer.

363
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: Wanted to be a legendary priest, so he left. He

364
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: moved to the United States and threw himself into academia.

365
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: For the next two decades, Who Says studied literature and language.

366
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: He earned a master's degree and a doctorate in Romance languages,

367
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: and then another PhD from Harvard in Latin American literature.

368
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: The truth he carried, the memory of what Marcile did

369
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: to him, remained unspoken for forty years. I often wonder

370
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: why it took that long, why someone like who says,

371
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: so eloquent, so brave, waited for decades to speak. But

372
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: then I remember what victims of abuse go through. The fear,

373
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: the guilt, the trauma. Jose had been silenced not just

374
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: by Massiel, but by the machine that protected him. He

375
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: knew how powerful Massiele was and probably thought no one

376
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: would ever believe him until nineteen ninety four. That year,

377
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: Pop John Paul the second wrote a letter published in

378
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: major newspapers across Mexico, publicly praising.

379
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: The founder I need.

380
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: The pope called Masseille efficacious guide for the youth. For Jose,

381
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: those words felt like a slap in the face. So

382
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: he decided to speak, but finding someone who listened was

383
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: almost impossible. For two years, he knocked on doors, He

384
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: wrote to journalists, CULTIVI stations, reached out to newspapers in Mexico,

385
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: but no one wanted to tell his story. No one

386
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: wanted to go against the legion. They were too powerful,

387
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: too close to politicians and entrepreneurs to reach, too dear

388
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: to the Vatican. When journalists told him of the record,

389
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: I believe you, but I can't afford to lose my job.

390
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: Again and again, the answer was silence, until one day

391
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: someone picked up the phone. More than that after the break.

392
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: It was nineteen ninety six, Mexico City. Inside his quiet

393
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: office at ITAM, one of the country's most prestigious universities,

394
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: Jose was making a phone call to someone he'd never met.

395
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: He had heard a lot about an American journalist who

396
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: had written a book about abuse in the Catholic Church.

397
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: Could this be the person who would finally listen? Would

398
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: he dare investigate someone as protected as Massil. Jose needed

399
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: someone like that, so he made the call, and after

400
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: some convincing, Jason said yes. From that first conversation till

401
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: the date of publication in the Harford Current, it took

402
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: six months. Josse worked all day as the professor, then

403
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: stayed up into the early hours for constructing every detail

404
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: of those early years. It drained him physically unemotionally. He

405
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: says it was one of the most exhausting periods of

406
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: his life, even now at eighty five, whose remembers it all?

407
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: He gave Jason names, documents, testimonies, and the article finally

408
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: came out. Husse was ready ready to face the press,

409
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: the Vatican, even Masill himself if needed be. What he

410
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared for was silence. Masiell denied everything, said it

411
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: was all a conspiracy, that his accusers were mentally unstable

412
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: and bitter, and the article just fizzled into nothing. That

413
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: hit him harder than he expected.

414
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: He kept teaching.

415
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: Students passed through his classroom year after year, unaware that

416
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: their kind, seft spoken professor had once believed he would

417
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: dedicate his life to God and had instead been crushed

418
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: trying to expose a monster. But the pain was still there,

419
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: waiting to erupt, and one day it did when his

420
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: heart gave out. Literally in October of nineteen ninety seven,

421
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: eight months after Jason's article was published, jose underwent open

422
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: heart surgery. He didn't know if he'd make it back,

423
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: but he did, and when he opened his eyes, something

424
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: had shifted.

425
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: And when I came back on myself after the operation

426
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 3: or one thing, I was certain that I did not

427
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: care of alife. I did not care. But when I

428
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 3: was recovering, I was in my apartment and I found

429
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: out that Mosiele had been appointed one of the members

430
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 3: of the group in that in America to work about

431
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: the family, the Catholic family. I was very offended. I said,

432
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: I am in my apartment recovering my health after what

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00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: I have suffered, and I did suffer a lot.

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Speaker 1: Pop Jumpaul the Second had named Masill one of the

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Speaker 1: only twenty delegates to the Senate of the Americas. The

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Speaker 1: Vaticans version of the G twenty Summit and Masielle didn't

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Speaker 1: just get a seat at the table. He was something

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Speaker 1: like the guest of honor, because I wasn't willing to

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Speaker 1: take it anymore.

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Speaker 3: And then I decided to write his letter to the Pope.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't going to wait around hoping the truth would

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Speaker 1: clear the Vatican's red tape on its own. This time,

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Speaker 1: he was going straight to the top, no excuses, no middleman,

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Speaker 1: no lost messages. What he didn't know was that someone

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Speaker 1: else was already there inside the church, trying to do

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Speaker 1: the same thing. That's next on Secret Scandal, Sacred Scandal.

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00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: The Many Secrets of Marcelle Marseille is a production of

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Speaker 1: AHA Podcast in partnership with Iheartmichael Doura podcast Network, and

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00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: is hosted by me Elena Sadah, written by Menissa Hendrix

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00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: and Alvado Sez Petes, produced by Alvados Pees and Robert

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00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: Ta Garza. Is search and reporting by Robert Agarza, edited

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00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: by Jasmine Rometo with the help of Carmen graterol In,

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00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: fact checking by Annabella Toward The vocal coach for me

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Speaker 1: Elene Sada is Ina Tabia. Executive producers at a Her

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Speaker 1: Podcast are Carmen graterol Isaac Lee, and j H.

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Speaker 2: Carr.

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00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: Mixing and sound designed by Patrick and Jones. Original music

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00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: by Darko and I Am based on Patrick Hart's original composition.

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00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: Executive producers that I heard are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana.

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00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: Alexis Cardosa also serves as producer. Sircar Scandal was created

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Speaker 1: by Melanie Bartley and Paula Varos