WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The WikiLeaks Story 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.520 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.200 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:19.919 and I love all things tech. It is time for 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.640 another classic episode of tech Stuff. This one originally published 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.800 on June two thousand thirteen, that would have been my birthday. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.000 This is called the Wiki Leaks story, and obviously it's 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.960 another one of those topics where I could do a 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:38.239 full update, probably a full redo of this episode, but 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.440 it's always interesting to go back and listen to how 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.320 the show has evolved over the years. So let's listen 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.400 to the Wiki Leaks story. Also, real quick, before we 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.480 get into this, I do want to give a brief 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.479 trigger warning. It's it's a light trigger warning. Really. UM. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.640 Julianna sound being UM, one of the so called founders 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.800 of Wiki Leaks, has been brought up on some rape 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.800 charges and so there will be a non graphic discussion 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.360 of that later on in the podcast. UM. If that 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:06.880 is the kind of thing that you would rather avoid hearing, 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.880 than perhaps you would like to uh skip the rest 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.560 of this episode now. Spoiler alert, both Lauren and myself 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.600 and and with our particular political views. Feel that no 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.839 one in this story really comes out being a complete hero. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.119 It's it's it's just it's humans being humans, which means 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.680 it's complex. It's complex and gets kind of messy. Yeah, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.440 so we're gonna get messy. But before we get messy, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.320 let's just clear things up a little bit, let's talk 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.080 about what wiki leaks is. Now. First of all, the 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.720 name wiki gives you this sense that it has this 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.160 sort of collaborative, open structure that allows people to come 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.559 in and add things and tweak things. Not so much. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.800 They trined that early on in the timeline of wiki leaks, 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.960 but eventually moved away from it. The name has stuck, however, right, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:54.400 and I think that I think that really what they 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.080 wanted to do was um it was used, was used 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.400 that that easy reading format of wikis without you know, 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.640 and then they decided to really close down the part 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.360 where hey, anyone can edit it, because that's bad times 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.079 right right when you're talking about what it is WikiLeaks 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:14.160 is trying to do and uh and be yes, the 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:20.600 sourcing of information in order to remain um anonymous and pertinent. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.400 these are all things that make it. You know, if 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.919 you were to just open it up for what wiki 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.919 leaks does, it would just be a mess very quickly. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.840 It also has created a lot of confusion among people 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.280 who are just casually following this or have just heard 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.000 about it, who think that wiki leaks has some sort 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.960 of connection to Wikipedia, which it does not know. The 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.120 Wikipedia and wiki leaks are not at all related. So 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.840 what is wiki leaks. Well, it's a not for profit organization, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.160 and the purpose of wiki leaks is to publish information 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.560 that would normally not be available to the public. Right. 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:58.639 Normally normally be stuff that's either been classified or Yeah, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.679 it could be trade secret stuff, it could be a 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.320 corporate uh, communications that normally would not be available to 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.880 anyone outside a certain group of people within that corporation. Really, 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:14.360 it's any information that would be of public interest but 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.400 is not publicly available. And in fact, WikiLeaks go so 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.840 far as to say that the organization does not want 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.400 anything that's been published elsewhere. That's not the purpose for WikiLeaks. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.800 They also make pains to say that they do not 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.280 solicit any kind of information or files. They accept it, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.520 but they don't solicit, which is an important distinction they 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.920 have to make so that they yeah, because otherwise they 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:44.400 could start getting charges about being a spy or or 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:49.080 trying to bribe officials or people and who have access 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:54.880 to to classified information to then share it. If they 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.880 merely accepted donations of information, that absolves them of of 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.240 some of that responsible kind of technically, yeah, and just 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.240 at least prints a better picture of them, right as 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.080 far as it makes it more difficult to make a 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.440 case against them, doesn't necessarily mean that a case would 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.800 not be made against them and it wouldn't be successful. 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.920 But anyway, we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves now. Um. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:23.279 According to Columbia University's Journalism School, I read this, there 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.040 was a very long article about wiki leaks and its 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.080 association with the Guardian newspaper was a newspaper in the UK, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.599 and uh. In fact, there was quite a strong relationship 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.560 between the two for a while until an event that 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.839 we will discuss later. Yeah, yeah, that will come important later. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.400 But according to that particular article, it said that Julian Assange, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.760 who is often referred to as a founder, founder or 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.760 or at the very least the spokesperson for wiki leaks, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:05:00.920 he's certainly the most identifiable personality associated with figurehead. If 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.560 if nothing else. Yeah. Yeah, and that gets complicated too, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.480 and we'll explain that in a bit. But according to 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:12.280 this article, he registered the domain name back in However, 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.040 every other source I could find, two thousand six was 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.400 the earliest that it was actually um registered. This is 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.080 another part that makes talking about wiki leaks challenging in 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:28.360 that there's a lot of misinformation about the site itself, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.080 not just about all the shenanigans that went on both 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.960 within wiki Leaks and surrounding Wiki Leaks, but just when 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.240 it really got started. Right, And part of the problem 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.360 we should mention now is that a lot of the 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.400 information out there about wiki leaks comes from either Juliana 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.360 Sounds himself or other other personalities that have been involved 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.880 with the organization and have left it violently and bitterly. Yeah, 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.960 and so so all of all of this is uh 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.960 not necessarily it's difficult to track down the exact truth. Yeah, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.880 there's a lot of subjectivity here. I mean, everyone involved 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.480 has their own agenda and uh, and that doesn't it 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:12.160 doesn't necessarily align with the organization stated mission, right right, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.880 So this is this is what makes this complicated. Now, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.080 what is that stated mission? Well, the whole idea here 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.840 is that what Wiki leaks is trying to do is 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.760 make available information that the public that that that you know, 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.160 the organization feels the public should have access to but 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:31.240 otherwise would not because of the secrecy of either governmental 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.480 or corporate organizations or even just other organizations in general, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:41.160 and that it's an attempt to make these organizations more transparent. Right. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.200 They cite the Universal Declaration of Human Rights UM, in 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:48.160 particular Article nineteen UM, which which just says that that 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.680 everyone has the right to freedom, freedom of opinion and 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.360 expression right and that they should be able to pursue 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:59.240 information regardless of frontiers, which is kind of like saying, 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:04.320 you know, a person in in say China, who otherwise 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.200 might not have access to certain information completely has the 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.560 universal right to that, even if the Chinese government says 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.480 they don't. So in other words, it's kind of this 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:18.240 idea that everyone has this right regardless of what your 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.160 government says. Well, this is the United Nations that has 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.880 the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and it's not like 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.000 this is somehow legally binding for all right, Right, it's 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.800 it's a very nice idea. Yeah, it's it's an ideal, Right, 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:34.160 it's not so much legal wording. It's it's saying ideally, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.040 we would say all people have the right to these expectations, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:40.520 and one of them would be this right to freedom 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.000 of expression. Now, depending on where you are in the world, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.720 your right to freedom of expression maybe fairly generous or 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.400 it might be really restrictive. In the United States, we 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.600 like to think that we have the freedom of speech, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.280 but there are certain limitations. I mean, obviously, if you 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.760 are using that freedom of speech to inflict harm upon 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.240 someone and it is completely unjustified, and you know, you 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.920 could be taken to court for things things like library um. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.040 You know, the whole there's the whole argument about you 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.040 can't yell fire in a crowded theater because it could 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.600 cause people You're you're right, or freedom of expression does 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.720 not override someone else's right to safety safety right, or 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.400 at least the expectation of safety. Um. And so there 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.000 are a lot of complications here. But even in the 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.320 United States, you know, it's fairly wide open. People will 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.800 argue as to how wide open it is because of 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.000 their own personal views. If you go to someplace like 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.079 the United Kingdom, there rights of free speech are are 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:46.000 more narrow. There are very specific laws that prevent newspapers, 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:51.480 for example, from violating secrecy agreements. So something like The 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.720 Guardian had to make some really tough decisions when they 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.959 got information from Wiki leaks onto whether or not to 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.800 publish it, because it could result in some junctions from 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.320 the government, So that gets really complex as well. Anyway, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.679 Wiki Leaks essentially says, we don't subscribe to any of 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:15.120 these regional concepts. We subscribe to this universal concept and 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.360 that's what it's all about. And so they try to 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:23.319 provide the material that journalists can use to tell the 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.000 stories that otherwise would be untold. Right. Um Assassa said 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.760 in in one interview with Time that this organization practices 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.600 civil obedience. It tries to make the world more civil 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.480 and act against abusive organizations that are pushing it in 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.360 the opposite direction. So it's kind of funny to call 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.679 it civil obedience considering that, uh, you know that they 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:48.000 are directly disobeying. Yes, they're being disobedient by by very nature. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.839 But it's it's all an argument about who has the 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.040 power and responsibility. If you have a lot of you know, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.560 as as Uncle Ben would say, with great power comes 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.960 great responsibility. That's that's one of those little cliche sayings, 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.160 but there is truth to that. It's very true that 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.400 if you are a governmental agency or a corporation that 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.840 has a lot of power, then there is a certain 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.560 expectation that you will use that power in a responsible 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.199 way and not do it in such a way that 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.520 you are going to violate people's rights, right. You know. 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.920 At the same time, frequently information is withheld by by governments, 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.960 in particular because because of of of measures of national security, 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.679 because they're trying to protect you know, either their their 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.160 military interests or their scientific interests, or or you know, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.760 the people and the research that go into making that 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.520 country a safe place to be, right. So there is 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:46.120 a very delicate balance here, right. I mean, you could 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.280 argue that there are there's certain information that's out there 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.240 that it's good that it's secret because that means that 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.120 the people who are doing valuable work, and it may 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.680 be valuable work that in no way is violent towards 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.199 any other person. It may be completely humanitarian work that 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.240 their lives could be in jeopardy if the information were 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.840 made public, and that is something that you know needs 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.040 to be taken into consideration. Now, the what wicked Leaks 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:12.719 would say is, on the other hand, you also have 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:18.800 these instances where UH agencies or the military or a 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:24.320 corporation are behaving in an unethical or corrupt or illegal manner, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.360 and without this information becoming public, they can never be 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.719 held accountable for that. And so if they you know, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.640 this transparency gives accountability to those agencies. And in fact, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.560 they go so far as to say it's the media's 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.040 role to to reveal this kind of information to the public, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.520 to to make the public informed enough to be good citizens, right, 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.160 because this is that that big relationship. You know, we 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.240 often think of the government as being this kind of 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.880 separate entity that is UH in some cases we think 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.040 of as sort of that big brother Orwellian idea of 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.199 this this other that dictates what we do. But in reality, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.720 at least in in you can argue to watch it, right. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.600 You know, they're definitely fringe theories about how much your 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.800 your average citizen does or doesn't have power over over 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.079 these these things. But but but saying that, you know, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.599 if we take democracy in the United States for what 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.599 it's supposed to be, if we assume that that in 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.520 fact is the case, then what Wiki Leak's role is 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.440 to tell the public, Hey, this is what your officials 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.920 are up to, and if you don't approve of that, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:29.959 you need to be aware of it so that you 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.559 can the next time voting comes around, behave in a 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.880 way that that allows you to get the right people 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.800 in charge, assuming of course, that the right people are 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.599 the ones who are running for office. That's that's a 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.760 different political discussion. That's the whole other, whole other canne worms. Honestly, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.520 I'm I'm probably coming across is really cynical. I'm actually 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.360 not that cynical. I'm just aware of a lot of cynicism. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.240 So it's one of those things where you kind of 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.079 dance around it. Anyway. Well, yeah, and you know, the 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.000 thing is that I read one thing about how the 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:06.160 US Information Security Oversight Office reported that um, the number 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.720 of new secrets designated as such by the government rose 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:17.120 from nine and so so partially what this has to 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.280 do with is the way that governments are processing information 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.599 and um and releasing it to the public right and 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.880 and to be fair, I mean, the Albama administration in 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.600 the United States specifically said that one of its cornerstones 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.160 was going to be transparency, and so in a way 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.440 you can think of the media in general and wiki 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.520 leaks in particular in this case, trying to hold them 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.040 accountable for that claim saying you said you're going to 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.199 be transparent. Here are all these things that have not 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.000 been reported? What is your stance on this? Absolutely? And 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.760 so I mean, you know, I can't disagree with that motivation. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.920 I think that that's very important. I think that any 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.400 nation where you have a free pet press, that presses 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.440 job to keep an eye and make sure that things 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.559 are not being uh, that people are not behaving in 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.000 an unethical manner or taking advantage of a situation, and 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.680 if they are, that that's reported. I think that's very important. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.079 It's a key role in journalism, and it's something that 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.000 some people would say has really been slipping from journalism 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:23.440 over the last couple of decades. Again, I'm not a journalists, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.520 so I'm not going to comment on that. Well, that's 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.000 that's another you know, there's also a lot of ideas 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.520 about out there about how entertainment based the journalism industry 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.240 is these days. Yes, yeah, the whole idea of of 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:39.360 the the commercialization of journalism. Uh well, anyway, Wiki leaks 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:44.119 does have some policies that try to guide the organization 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.840 and how it behaves. One of those is that that 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.680 they do sometimes delay or remove some details in stories 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.760 in order to protect people from immediate harm, especially either 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.640 current victims of of harm somewhere or the whistleblowers who 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.120 are hoarding this information right. And then on top of that, 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:08.040 they also try to make sure that every single leaked 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.600 report that they receive, which by the way, they they've 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.760 set up an electronic dropbox, that's their preferred method of 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:18.880 receiving information is electronically, and that this dropbox is encrypted 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.640 so that again in theory, you wouldn't be able to 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.480 trace the origin of that other than being able to 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.040 see that this is original source material, but it's not 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.760 tied to any particular person. So the electronic dropbox is 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.880 supposed to be a secure way of getting files two 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.320 wiki leaks, and they have said that they would also 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.720 receive files or documents in other forms, like including through 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.240 the mail, but they preferred not to because that kind 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.200 of stuff can be intercepted and securities and questions, and 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.680 also also if they have a physical mailing address, that 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:56.120 makes it more difficult for them to uh avoid entanglements, 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.680 all right, So anyway, they they do refer to their 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.120 electronic drop boxes being the preferred method, and they say 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.840 that everything they get they use traditional investigative journalism techniques 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.000 as well as more modern technology based methods to verify 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.960 that that information is in fact, accurate and true, and 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.360 that it really is from a verifiable source, right, that 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.240 the documents are actually from wherever the person the anonymous 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.680 source says they're from. So if an anonymous source drops 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:32.000 off a enormous file that is supposed to contain all 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.320 these documents from the Department of Justice in the United States, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.640 for example, they would go through and try to verify 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.800 that those were in fact d o J documents and 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.320 not just someone using some logos or whatever to fabricate something. Right. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.400 This is through a largely volunteer based system they've they've 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.320 reported and again you know, these numbers are kind of 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.120 wibbly wobbly, but um they reported having up to eight 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:59.360 hundred volunteer members, mostly mostly journalists, I think, helping helping 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.520 them out with stuff like this, right, and some of 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.680 those volunteers have a lot of stuff to say about 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.280 wiki leaks, but again we'll cover that probably in the 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.000 second half. I think of this of this episode, so 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.880 they their policies to verify everything to keep it secure, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.399 and then once they verified it, the next step is 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:23.280 deciding on when to publish this information. And wiki leaks 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.320 has done uh well, They've done their own journalism. They've 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.280 had their own journalists right stories that were based off 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.840 of the documents that they had found. That I think 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.720 you mentioned earlier that that part of what wiki leaks 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.639 holds very DearS that they want to publish original material. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.320 They don't want to republish anything, and and that's and 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.119 so yes, so um so actually doing writing an investigation, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.640 it's a big part of that. They also will partner 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.600 with existing media outlets, although there's been sort of a 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:57.960 contentious relationship between wiki leaks and several high profile newspapers 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.840 UH in multiple nation and part of that I think 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.560 has to do with the sana's personal handling of situations. 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.320 But anyway, they they their goal is to have stories 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.560 written about the information they have, because it's kind of 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.520 like if you were to walk into a laboratory that's 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.119 doing scientific experiments and you see the experiment going on, 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.359 but you can't really necessarily make any meaningful conclusion based 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.359 on that. You need to have the report written up 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.040 where you can see what the actual methodology was, what 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.879 the results were, and what the conclusions are. That's what 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.320 is digestible to the average person. Same thing with these 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.000 wiki leaks reports. It's usually the raw material is something 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.080 that they hand over to journalists and the journalists and 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.480 up rutting the stories, and then the raw material is 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:52.000 published along with the story, so that way complete transparency 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.840 that they're really going for, right that way, so that 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.480 you can check their sources exactly exactly. Like if if 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.520 Lauren reads the story and then you know, she reads 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.920 onejournalists perspective on that story and they're the way that 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.720 they have taken this information and then communicated it, she 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.080 can then go to the the source material, read the 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.080 source material and see if her own interpretation of that 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.359 source material is aligned with what the journalists said. Because remember, 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.640 no matter what, we're all humans, so we all view 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.639 things through our own kind of lens in the world, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.720 and we try and be as you know, a journalists 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.600 tried to be as objective as possible, at least most 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:33.240 people journalists try. That's the hypothetical ideal. Yeah, So, but 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.480 it's it's you know, there's no way to ever truly 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.600 attain that sure, and and and in some of these 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.359 cases they the Assange and and other folks at Wiki 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.920 leaks have admitted to wanting to market some of these 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.399 bigger releases, uh, to to really get things into the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.480 public eye. Right, I don't I haven't personally read any 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.359 any ill intent to change details, but it just to 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.199 bring the most important details to the forefront, because they 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.560 are a political organization, right and when you look at it, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.480 you're you're talking about sometimes they're getting files that are enormous. 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.880 They're talking about pages and pages and pages of documentation. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.840 It's like like over over three hundred thousand documents and 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.600 ago that that's you know, obviously way too much for 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.880 anyone to just wade through beginning to end and find 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.960 the nuggets that are meaningful, because a lot of this 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.520 stuff has information that's not really um, you know, important 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.480 in the grand scheme of things. It might have been 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.119 important for a very specific purpose, but you know, beyond that, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.400 it doesn't really matter so much. So well, we'll mention 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.920 a few examples of stuff like that a little bit later. Yeah, 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.520 So they you know, this is this is their basic 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.240 purpose and their basic approach. To go into more detail, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.560 we'll have to kind of look at the timeline and 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.680 discuss what had happened throughout the history of wiki leaks, 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:58.679 which course is still in existence today. I don't mean 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:03.000 to suggest that history is over, but it is. It 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.440 is a continuing story. But um, but most of the 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:07.879 most of the action within wiki leaks was going on 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.840 around Yeah, that's when the big, big stuff was going on, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.600 although it's played a part in other stories since then, 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.399 and of course before then too. Hey, guys, Jonathan from here, 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:31.280 we're going to take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Alright, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.240 so we've had an overview of what wiki leaks is, 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.680 what its purposes, what you know, role it's it's ideally 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.960 would fill within the world of journalism and transparency and accountability. 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.879 Let's talk a little bit about the timeline. So it 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.040 was around two thousand six that Wiki leaks began to coalesce, 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.520 and it was officially launched in two thousand seven, right 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.760 either December two thousand six or early two thousand seven. Yeah, 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.440 it's right around the anyway. The first publications were coming 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.680 out in in December of two thousand and six. But 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.160 most folks just say that are The official launch where 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.280 we've had a thing was in early two thousand seven, right, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.119 And and I did want to mention that this is 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.359 coming on the heels of in two thousand five, the 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.399 commission that had been investigating the nine eleven terrorists attacks 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.040 here in the United States had found that that poor 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.720 information sharing was a huge failure of the government in 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:26.720 the in the lead up to the attacks, of of 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.720 of preventing this sort of thing from happening, and and 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:35.199 that that had led to internally a lot of reorganization 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:40.360 of how information is shared in between different departments department. Yeah, 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.760 this this is something that we see in all levels 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.920 of organization where you have multiple departments and then the 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.480 communication between departments, sometimes the communication within a department tends 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.000 to get bogged down by red tape. And uh, you know, 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:55.320 you see this all the time. Like if you ever 0:22:55.720 --> 0:23:02.360 read any stories about uh police investigation that spanned multiple jurisdictions, 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.639 that's always part of the story is how complicated it 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:10.280 was to get the cooperation of one police office versus another. 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.000 And if their federal investigators, then that adds another layer 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.560 of complexity. And it was it wasn't until around that 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.320 time that um, I think that a lot of agencies 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.920 had been kind of resisting going digital just because of 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.200 the ease of flow of information, which isn't really considered 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.040 a good thing when you're trying to keep things secret. 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.080 Um And but but it was after after two five 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.320