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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stop? Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From housetop works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Christen, I'm Molly. Molly. This week breasts have been

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Speaker 1: in the news. They had a lot, a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was as you guys know, we we don't record

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Speaker 1: our our podcasts and published in the same day, so

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Speaker 1: this will have already happened a few weeks ago by

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Speaker 1: the time you're you're listening to this. But the Monday

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Speaker 1: that we of the week we're recording this podcast, boop

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Speaker 1: quake happens. Boop quake. Yes, Molly, would you like to

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Speaker 1: tell everyone a little bit about boop quake since probably

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Speaker 1: by now it will be that, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: distant news past. Sure. This uh feminist blogger, I think

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Speaker 1: it's where it started as a joke. She was responding

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Speaker 1: to something that this very conservative Iranian Eric It's said.

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Speaker 1: He had basically said that women's immodesty and dress was

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Speaker 1: causing earthquakes, that you know, by becoming this deviant force

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Speaker 1: in society that was tempting men and uh, demoralizing society,

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Speaker 1: they were causing natural disasters. So this blogger said, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's all wear our most you know, out their shirts,

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Speaker 1: short short shorts, if that's your thing. Like, let's just

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Speaker 1: be a modest on this one day and see if

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Speaker 1: an earthquake happens. Let's see if we can really just

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Speaker 1: get our our our boobage out there and and start

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Speaker 1: an earthquake. And she started, she posted this on her blog,

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Speaker 1: blag hag, and then she started a Facebook page, and

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Speaker 1: of course it blew up and next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the number one Internet meme. It was everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: you know, people on my Facebook page were saying things like, well,

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Speaker 1: my boobs aren't big enough, They're not going to start

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Speaker 1: an earthquake. So there was even some backlash about the

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Speaker 1: body issues inherent in boop Quake. And you know, there's

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Speaker 1: been some controversy because there was an earthquake in Taiwan

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Speaker 1: the day of boop Quake, but they're saying it doesn't

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Speaker 1: count because the original bloggers said, you know, boot quake

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Speaker 1: class from this time to this time, and the earthquake

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Speaker 1: was like right after or something like that. So a

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Speaker 1: little bit of controversy. There was an earthquake. We don't

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Speaker 1: know if it counts. But there was also controversy among

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Speaker 1: some women who didn't really take the issue that lightly.

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Speaker 1: For instance, Beth Man at salon Um wrote a wrote

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Speaker 1: a column about why she wouldn't participate in boot quake. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's not that she, you know, didn't didn't understand

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Speaker 1: the humor of the situation, but she was a little

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Speaker 1: more concerned that the feminist response to this Iranian cleric

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Speaker 1: is to show off our bodies, because of course there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of Men's response to boot quake was yeah,

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Speaker 1: bring it off. I'm about them. I'm gonna go get

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Speaker 1: my camera phone. Well, carrow you some yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: Marty Gras, Marty grow two point oh great, I'll take

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Speaker 1: boom quick um. And she, you know, for instance, from

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Speaker 1: this column, she says women she should be able to

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Speaker 1: wear what they want. That's a given women she'd be

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Speaker 1: able to sexually express themselves as they see it. Of course, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we live in a world that sees that kind of

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Speaker 1: freedom of expression as a photo opportunity or another cheap thrill,

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Speaker 1: which I think brings us into the second big boob

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Speaker 1: story of the week, if you will, and that was

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Speaker 1: the Lane Bryant ad. Yeah, this was a commercial Lane

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Speaker 1: Bryant had shot and what I can't remember which networks,

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Speaker 1: it was ABC and Fox. ABC and Fox did not

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Speaker 1: want to air this commercial, which featured you know, one

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Speaker 1: of their plus size models in Lane Bryant bra Uh.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want to share this commercial because they thought

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Speaker 1: that it was indecent exposure. Although have you seen a

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Speaker 1: victor a secret commercial? Molly, Well, there's that. And also,

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Speaker 1: according according to the blog that Lane Bryant wrote about

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Speaker 1: this issue, one of the shows that wouldn't put the

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Speaker 1: ad on during their network time was Dancing with the Stars,

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Speaker 1: which features a lot of skin. He knows dancers take

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Speaker 1: some clothes off. So I think for them to say

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Speaker 1: that Lane Bryant can't air this commercial, they're either making

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Speaker 1: some sort of statement about a big body since Lane

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Speaker 1: Bryant's plus size, or just big boobs in general. They're

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Speaker 1: basically saying that some boobs you can see in a

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Speaker 1: broad the Victory's secret kind, and some of them you

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Speaker 1: can't because they're just they're too big. It's too crazy. Yeah, Fox,

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Speaker 1: they said. Fox demanded excess. And this is from the

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Speaker 1: inside Curves. Lane Bryant blog. They said that Fox demanded

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Speaker 1: excessive re edits and rebuffed it three times before relenting

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Speaker 1: to air it during the final ten minutes of American Idol,

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Speaker 1: but only after Lane Bryant threatened to pull the ad.

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Speaker 1: By so Kristen our cups runneth over with breast news

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Speaker 1: this week. Well done, breast fun. Uh, let's unpack it.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about breasts. We've talked about breastfeeding a little

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Speaker 1: bit in previous podcasts, and we talked then about how

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Speaker 1: they're sort of this conflict between a sexual breast and

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Speaker 1: a maternal breast. But this week we've got some really

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Speaker 1: cool information on that. Yeah, we really Molly, I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about, well, what what's the big deal?

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Speaker 1: What's the big deal with cleavage? You know, a an

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Speaker 1: A cup woman can wear a low cut top and

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Speaker 1: get away with it much easier than say a D

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Speaker 1: cup woman simply because you know, they might be showing

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Speaker 1: the same amount of skin. But but she's not. You know,

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Speaker 1: the small breasted woman is not showing cleavage, and small

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Speaker 1: breast woman is not going to cause an earthquake. Apparently

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Speaker 1: precisely so, Molly and I want to dig a little

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Speaker 1: deeper into this and figure out, you know, what is

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Speaker 1: the deal with breast? I mean, come on, we know

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Speaker 1: that we know everyone likes to look at him. And

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Speaker 1: I'm and I and I do say everyone. I say

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Speaker 1: men and women. I mean obviously, you know, men might

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Speaker 1: be a little more titilated by it, um then women.

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Speaker 1: But I think that breasts naturally draw our attention. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, what was it? What's the big deal? What's

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Speaker 1: a big deal? What's the big deal? So there's a

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Speaker 1: book by Marilyn Yalum called A History of the Breast,

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Speaker 1: and it really traces how sometimes there have been good

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Speaker 1: breasts in history and bad breasts in history. Sometimes breasts

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Speaker 1: have been in vogue and very stylish and very um sacred,

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Speaker 1: and then sometimes they've been signs of indecency and a modesty.

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Speaker 1: And I think right now we're sort of in a

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Speaker 1: clash of those two and we don't really know which

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Speaker 1: way to turn. But it was a little bit more

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Speaker 1: clear cut at certain points in history. So if we

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Speaker 1: look back in art, it becomes very obvious that human

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Speaker 1: kind has always been very fascinated by the woman's breast,

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Speaker 1: and understandably so, because the woman, you know, we produce milk.

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Speaker 1: It is the life giver to our offspring, etcetera. If

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Speaker 1: we go back even as early as twenty BC to

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Speaker 1: the Grimaldi venus, this statuette is portrayed, as you know,

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Speaker 1: very large breasted, kind of potbellied woman um and is

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Speaker 1: obviously a very sacred relic from back then. And the

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Speaker 1: theme of these prominent women's breasts still continues in ancient art, right,

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Speaker 1: So we jump a little bit further from people and

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Speaker 1: we can move up from So, yes, we go from

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Speaker 1: these very ancient statues of the big breast of woman.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the ancient Creeks. They weren't so much

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Speaker 1: They weren't so much breast men, if I may use

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Speaker 1: a common term. They liked to celebrate the fallast. And

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Speaker 1: part of that because the breast became a little bit threatening.

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Speaker 1: With the legend of the Amazons. According to Yolam, the

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Speaker 1: Amazons were these powerful warrior women who chopped off one

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Speaker 1: breast so that they could shoot their bows and arrows.

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Speaker 1: So they were killing men with the bows and arrows,

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Speaker 1: and they were only breastfeeding their female children with the

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Speaker 1: other breast, so the legend said. So that's why the

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Speaker 1: Greeks were a little bit more about celebrating the fallast

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Speaker 1: and in if we take a big old leap while

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Speaker 1: and I are just hot skipping and jump in through

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Speaker 1: art history, so bear with us. Um. But then if

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Speaker 1: you've moved to let's say, the Middle Ages, with the

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Speaker 1: rise of the Catholic Church, you have so so much

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Speaker 1: iconography of the Virgin Mary portrayed breastfeeding the baby Jesus,

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Speaker 1: and the breast becomes this very sacred thing. Even though

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Speaker 1: you're seeing the breast, there aren't sexual connotations to it,

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Speaker 1: because this is the Holy Mother. The breast is something

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Speaker 1: very sacred, very maternal, very natural, beating the Savior and

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Speaker 1: thus by extension, feeding all of us. Yes. Uh. Then

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Speaker 1: along comes the Renaissance, where the breast becomes, you know,

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Speaker 1: even fleshier if you can imagine something, because the skin

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Speaker 1: and the human flesh was very sort of emphasized, pink,

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Speaker 1: very pink in those paintings. Um. But it's also when

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Speaker 1: despite all these mother and child paintings, we do see

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the signs of the sexual breast

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Speaker 1: and art Yes, and Yolam in the History of the

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Speaker 1: Breast points to a painting of Charles seventh Mistress Agnes

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Speaker 1: sorel Uh. This is it's a painting known as the

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Speaker 1: Virgin of Maloon and I'm probably I might not be

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Speaker 1: pronouncing that right, but it's m e l u N

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Speaker 1: and it's a depiction of her. She has one breast

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Speaker 1: out and obviously it's probably about to breastfeed her baby

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Speaker 1: who's sitting there. But the child is not in the

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Speaker 1: act of breastfeeding. In fact, the baby kind of looks

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Speaker 1: like he could he could care less this large teeth

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Speaker 1: in his face. Um. But but she says, this is

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Speaker 1: really the turning point for when we move from the

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Speaker 1: sacred breast to the far more sexualized breast that is

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Speaker 1: highly celebrated in Renaissance art and also in the fashion

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Speaker 1: over the the next couple of centuries, as necklines drop

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Speaker 1: and breasts really come out, and they come out as

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Speaker 1: fruit basically because all these poets that's when they start

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Speaker 1: writing things about a woman's apples and strawberries and sherries

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Speaker 1: and globes and orbs. So it's both global and fruit. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And also if we're thinking about the fruits today, you know,

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Speaker 1: you might think it we might hear a lot more

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Speaker 1: about say cantelopes and melons. But back then the ideal

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Speaker 1: breast was perhaps a small apple. They were depicted as

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Speaker 1: a lot um smaller and a little more new bile.

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Speaker 1: I guess then we might think of them today. And

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Speaker 1: that's largely because women in the Renaissance upper class women

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Speaker 1: at least would try to preserve the delicate shape of

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Speaker 1: their breast by sending their children to wet nurses so

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't have to breastfeed, and Renaissance husbands actually would

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Speaker 1: not sleep with their wives while they were breastfeeding. They

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Speaker 1: thought that it was um just a bad thing to

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Speaker 1: do and so um. So, yeah, the emphasis was on

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Speaker 1: these these more youthful, very young, smaller breasts than you know,

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Speaker 1: say a Playboy centerfold. Right though, men are starting to

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Speaker 1: show their you know, affection for breasts. I gus, you

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Speaker 1: could say in art because you see a lot of

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Speaker 1: pains from that time when the man is cupping the

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Speaker 1: apple apple size breast as a sign of ownership. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because there since I've ever said, yeah, they're there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of of depictions. I think there's a vermeeror that

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Speaker 1: Yollan points out of a husband coppying his wife's breast

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Speaker 1: saying look, this is this is my beloved, and you

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Speaker 1: know this is but this is my breast, not your breast.

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Speaker 1: Hands off, right, So it's a sign of ownership. But

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really thought of his crewd it was you know,

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Speaker 1: that was just the way things were. But eventually the

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Speaker 1: eighteen century leists take another leap forward, that idea of

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Speaker 1: sending your kids off the country to be breastfed. It

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Speaker 1: went out of boat. Yeah, there was this huge shift

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Speaker 1: UM in the I think around seventeen fifty um yollom

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Speaker 1: estimates around Parisian children were wet nursed by eight hundred. However,

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Speaker 1: all those kids were being UM well obviously not the

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Speaker 1: same kids, but the trend completely shifted towards UH mother's

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding their own children. And this really started in England.

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Speaker 1: And interestingly, this notion was not UH instigated by women.

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Speaker 1: It was started by UH lots of prominent men at

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Speaker 1: the time, including Daniel Dafoe, Rousseau, Linnaeus, all these men

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Speaker 1: saying no, women, you must breastfeed your children. And so

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Speaker 1: we have the shift from the sexual breast back to

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Speaker 1: the maternal breast. But interestingly, also UM a fashion of

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Speaker 1: the time still allowed for women to show their cleavage,

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Speaker 1: put their put their breasts wanted display with these these

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Speaker 1: low cut dresses that they were wearing. And so y'allen says,

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Speaker 1: it's that it's also around this time that we have

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Speaker 1: the murdering of the maternal and the sexual at the

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Speaker 1: same time, so that at this point in history, the

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Speaker 1: lactating breast becomes sexual. So we moved from the Middle Ages,

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Speaker 1: where the lactating virgin mary is seen as something completely

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Speaker 1: sacred and separate to now, you know, the sexual new mother, right,

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Speaker 1: So I would I would say Kristen that we've been

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Speaker 1: struggling with that joining of the maternal breast and the

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Speaker 1: sexual breast ever since. I mean, you look at the

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Speaker 1: debate over breastfeeding, which we've touched on another podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: people have a problem seeing women breastfeed because they've been

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Speaker 1: trained to think of breasts as these sexual things. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't always So, I mean, even though we sort

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Speaker 1: of jumped through our history, we do have evidence that

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Speaker 1: there were points in which women sort of walked around

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Speaker 1: topless and it didn't mean anything. It didn't mean a

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Speaker 1: that she was selling herself, and it didn't mean that

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Speaker 1: she was anything less than royalty. It was just breast

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Speaker 1: weren't loaded with everything we've loaded them since we've loaded

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Speaker 1: them right up with all that sexual and maternal innuendo, right,

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Speaker 1: And think we also have to keep in mind that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Western culture right now. In other parts

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Speaker 1: of the world, a woman we're walking around topless is

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Speaker 1: no big deal at all. I mean, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: part of you know, daily life. Um. But it's interesting, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we generally think of breasts, like you said,

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Speaker 1: is either something that's completely maternal or completely sexual. But

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Speaker 1: y'allum also points out that they have been used, um

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Speaker 1: for political symbolism as well, especially around the time of

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Speaker 1: the French Revolution. You have many depictions of women like

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Speaker 1: bare breasted women as uh lady liberty, you know, leading

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Speaker 1: leading the people onward. And even during World War One

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Speaker 1: and World War Two, we have depictions in the States

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Speaker 1: of lady liberty, Lady liberty with more prominent breast um

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Speaker 1: because I think that, uh, they're still seen as symbols

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Speaker 1: of women's power and also something separate from men like

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Speaker 1: it's at one point, she makes uh the argument that

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Speaker 1: during World War Two, American troops sort of had a

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Speaker 1: breast fetish because the female represented everything that um they

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Speaker 1: were basically destroying in this war, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: love and compassion and um intimacy, things that are fighting

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Speaker 1: for in the war, or that the war was destroying. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's well, those things were the antithesis of

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Speaker 1: the warfare going on. BATCHA. So how do we get

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Speaker 1: to today, Chris, And I mean, how do we get

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Speaker 1: to a world where you know, men in World War

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Speaker 1: two are essentially I mean to just over oversimplify it

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Speaker 1: inspired by breast to fight and that again it's a

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Speaker 1: very big oversimplification to today where you know, women are

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Speaker 1: you know, wearing low cut tank tops. To make a point, well,

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Speaker 1: I think the the tricky issue, the boot politics, the

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Speaker 1: cleavage issue that we have to deal with is the

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Speaker 1: fact that I don't think that we can ever divorce

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Speaker 1: the sexual from breasts. You know, I mean, as as primates,

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Speaker 1: we have perpetually engorged breasts. Some scientists have theorized as

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Speaker 1: a sign of sexual maturity. And I think that it's

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Speaker 1: different for women because it's this immediate outward sign of

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Speaker 1: her sexual maturity, whereas for men, you know, we have

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Speaker 1: things like facial hair we've talked about facially here before.

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Speaker 1: And how you know, stubble is very attractive to women

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Speaker 1: because it's also you know, their initial outward sign of

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Speaker 1: sexual maturity. Because um, usually you can't exactly um spot

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Speaker 1: from a guy's outward appearance whether or not he is

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Speaker 1: well endowed as well. So perhaps it's the fact that

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Speaker 1: women just have to deal with the fact that they

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Speaker 1: have them because you know, let's go to an issue

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Speaker 1: cleavage in the workplace. That's a tough one, Molly. So

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Speaker 1: there have been studies reports that both men and women

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Speaker 1: judge a woman who is showing ample cleavage in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: And as you said earlier, a woman who has smaller

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Speaker 1: breast can easily wear a low cut shirt and not

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Speaker 1: be seen, you know, as as scandalous. But if a

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Speaker 1: big breast a woman wears the same shirt, then you know,

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Speaker 1: people's perceptions of her professionalism and her capabilities immediately dropped. Right.

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Speaker 1: The more clevange you have, um, you know, the more

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Speaker 1: the more attention that you're gonna get, and it's probably

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Speaker 1: not going to be positive attention if you're in the workplace. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we ran across a few articles about this on

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Speaker 1: Huffington's posts and in the Wall Street Journal trying to

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Speaker 1: advise me in the workplace about what we should do.

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Speaker 1: And there really were a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: double standards. I think. Um, for instance, let's go to this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this column Huffington Post from Karen Salmonson on the Power

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Speaker 1: of Cleveland and and she said, listen, she's talking about

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Speaker 1: how much breast you can display in the office. And

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Speaker 1: she said, it's like pornography versus art You know the

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Speaker 1: difference when you see it. Well, if you're honest with yourself,

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Speaker 1: you know the difference between pornographic cleavage at the office

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Speaker 1: and artistic cleavage at the office. And I stay to Salmonson,

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Speaker 1: first of all, lady, what's you talking about, um, pornographic

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Speaker 1: clean cleavage of the office versus artistic leavage of the office.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no, Salmonson, it's the difference between an A

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Speaker 1: cup and a D cup. And you know, one button

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Speaker 1: or two unbuttoned. Well, that's the thing is now we've

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Speaker 1: been trained to think that big boob equals stripper because

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Speaker 1: the women who have made successful lives for themselves as

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Speaker 1: strippers probably again to generalize, have really big boobs. Well,

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Speaker 1: and then She goes on to you know to support

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Speaker 1: her argument, she calls out the study from the University

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Speaker 1: of Central Florida where researchers were testing out how people

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Speaker 1: would men and women would perceive a woman giving a

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Speaker 1: speech based on her breast size. So they saw this

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Speaker 1: woman um at separate times as an A, B, C,

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Speaker 1: and D cup, and then they rated the actress on

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Speaker 1: her professionalism, and she says the majority of males perceived

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Speaker 1: the actress to be the most professional when she had

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Speaker 1: a medium cup breast size, whereas females were generally not

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Speaker 1: influenced by the actress's breast size at all. That's fantastic. Well,

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Speaker 1: what are you supposed to do if you are, you know,

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Speaker 1: a D cup woman like you know, we can't exactly

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Speaker 1: control well, I mean, I guess we can control, but

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Speaker 1: we don't. We can't naturally dictate our breast size. So

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Speaker 1: which gets to why banning an ad for Lane Bryant

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Speaker 1: is so ridiculous. I mean, if you really do want

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Speaker 1: to teach a woman about the products that are available

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Speaker 1: to help her keep a D cup in line so

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Speaker 1: that you don't immediately think stripper as soon as you

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Speaker 1: see her, perhaps she should know about Lane Bryant's products. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean if we are talking about like what kind

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Speaker 1: of cleavage is acceptable in a professional setting and what's not,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I've sort of taken Salmonson to task

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Speaker 1: for her her this Huffington Post article. But then if

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Speaker 1: we head over to the Wall Street Journal, I mean

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Speaker 1: kind of similar tones are echoed where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean cleavage in the office is still, you know,

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Speaker 1: extremely taboo. Like the column quotes one woman who says

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Speaker 1: there's no greater crime than to show cleavage, period, No

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Speaker 1: greater crime, no greater crime. I mean it was basically

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Speaker 1: it's making the point that you know, if if you

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Speaker 1: want to make a lasting impression, yeah, you show cleavage,

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Speaker 1: but that lasting impression is going to be of you

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Speaker 1: as um, you know, the sexual object, rather than an

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Speaker 1: intelligent professional, especially in a male manager's mind, because um

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Speaker 1: as uh. As one psychologist has put it, men have

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Speaker 1: men go into a man trance whenever they are around

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Speaker 1: breast and they can't help look at them because it

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Speaker 1: all goes back to basic biology of you know, this

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Speaker 1: display of our sexuality. So we should just cover them

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Speaker 1: up unless we want to attract all these all these

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Speaker 1: stairs now, Kristen. The woman who coined the term man

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Speaker 1: trance is a woman named Luan Brisandine, and she taught

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Speaker 1: she has a book, The Female Mind and the Male Mind.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of take everything she says with a

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Speaker 1: grain of salt because she's been called out for kind

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Speaker 1: of shoddy research, like taking one isolate study and uh,

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Speaker 1: just blowing it way out of proportion, or misreading her

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Speaker 1: results altogether. But you can't ignore the fact that man

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Speaker 1: trance is an interesting term. And as if we weren't

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Speaker 1: short arm research dollars, people like Brisandine and other scientists

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Speaker 1: are doing all these studies about just how much men

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Speaker 1: loves You wouldn't believe the number of studies that have

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Speaker 1: been conducting just to see if if, in fact, men

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Speaker 1: do like looking at boobs. It's ridiculous. I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: got we Molly and I found studies about how, hey, surprise,

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Speaker 1: the larger the cup size, the more hitchhiking rides a

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Speaker 1: girl can get. Um, Hey, men seem to rate women

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Speaker 1: with larger breast sizes is more attractive than women with

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Speaker 1: smaller breast insane, you know, I mean, it's just it's

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Speaker 1: kind of funny actually, So then we've got again, let's

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Speaker 1: try and bring it back to this weekend breasts. As

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Speaker 1: I termed this week, you've got boob quake, You've got

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Speaker 1: Lane Bryant. We're at clearly at this point in history

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Speaker 1: where the sexual and the maternal of merged is boob

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Speaker 1: quake a positive thing a negative thing? Can you even say,

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Speaker 1: do we need to take more into account the fact

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Speaker 1: that we're judged constantly on our breasts or you know,

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Speaker 1: do we if we've got it flaw on it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of the question. The day it's it's unanswerable.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to claim to answer it, but that's

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Speaker 1: sort of what we're grappling with. Well. I would say though,

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Speaker 1: that I think that this is you say, are we

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Speaker 1: judge for our breast? I don't. I think that that

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Speaker 1: is more of an issue for large breasted women. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that small breasted women really are that much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, unless you might get snarky comments about you know,

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Speaker 1: um how they don't exist. But since they're not, they're

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Speaker 1: not quite as out there. I think that the stakes

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Speaker 1: are so much higher for large breasted women. For instance, um,

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Speaker 1: we ran across a column in Washington City paper in

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Speaker 1: response to the Lane Bryant issue, and the headline was,

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Speaker 1: with great cleavage comes great responsibility, you know, And I

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Speaker 1: think that that that really kind of sums it all up,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, I don't think that women should necessarily

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Speaker 1: have to cover themselves up if you're if you're dcup

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Speaker 1: or larger or smaller whatever, you shouldn't have to wear

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Speaker 1: a turtleneck to the office. Um. And it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: more appropriate for an a cup to wear a deep

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Speaker 1: V than you know, a dcup. Um. So anyway, this

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Speaker 1: is also the prime point when Molly, I think it's

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Speaker 1: time to turn it over to our wise and wonderful

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Speaker 1: listeners to let us know what they think, because it

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Speaker 1: really is kind of an unanswerable question. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: brusts always are going to attract people's attention, no matter

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Speaker 1: what I mean. If I see a large, busted woman

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Speaker 1: wearing a low cut top, do I look, Yes, I do,

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Speaker 1: and you probably do too well. I don't even try

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Speaker 1: to lie. Um, but I didn't say that anything. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it can be a difficult challenge for guys

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Speaker 1: who don't want to seem smarmie at all, and yet

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Speaker 1: you know they're gonna look. They're gonna look as well,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know. You'll help us answer. I'll us

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Speaker 1: answer this question, help us settle the cleavage issue. Alright.

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Speaker 1: The email address is mom stuff at house stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com and we will read a few quick emails.

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Speaker 1: First up is a correction from Valerie and our Sex

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Speaker 1: a Sex Addiction podcast. We reference an article called facing

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00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: My Obsession in the Flesh and we said it was

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Speaker 1: by Bennoit Dennisit Louis and Valery. Let us know that

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00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: the name is French and pronounced ben Wall ben Wah.

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00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: I knew Bennoit sounded wrong. Did sound a little unaaletic?

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Speaker 1: Oh all right, We have another correction here, and you

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Speaker 1: guys have been so on the ball, and uh, this

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00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: is in response to our podcast about tattoos, and we

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00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: talked about an ad cat Vondie of reality show Fame

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00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: did she's covered in tattoos? For you guys who don't

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00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: know who she is, she's the lead personality on l

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00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: A Inc. And she is a lovely woman who was

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Speaker 1: just covered from head to toe for tattoos. And at

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Speaker 1: one point she did this ad campaign where they used

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Speaker 1: cover up to essentially like remove all of her tattoos,

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00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: Show what, show you what she looks like, tattoo list,

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Speaker 1: And we made the point that you know, by doing that,

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Speaker 1: we were it was removing her power, etcetera, etcetera. And

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Speaker 1: a number of you guys wrote in to say that, um, actually,

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00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: Cat Bondie was exercising her own power because that was

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00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: an ad for her makeup line to advertise tattoo concealer.

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00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: Wa wa, So you can get a little circular, you

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00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: cane a little circular with it. Why did she need

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00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: a makeup to cover up tattoos if society was a

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00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: little easier on tattoos. Yeah, but that I'm justified the

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Speaker 1: mistake main But we were we were wrong in the

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00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: that pop culture reference. Whoops. And I will say some

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Speaker 1: of you are strangely mad that we would get a

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00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: Cat Fondie fact wrong, really angry. Let's do one more.

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Speaker 1: Let's do one more, mom, all right, this one is

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Speaker 1: not signed, but really a great email that I like.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to thank you for podcasting about androgyny. I

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00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: identify as androgynous, and it's a continual frustration to feel

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Speaker 1: so invincible, unaccepted, and judge for something that is not

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00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: a choice. But as an accident of my genetics and

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Speaker 1: our brain development, like being gay is for some you're

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Speaker 1: handling of the top. It was very respectful, if sometimes

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00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: a little clumb see and confusing physical sex male female

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00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: with gender mask and feminine. I wanted to add that

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00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: there are people who have a clearly defined physical sex,

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Speaker 1: such as female in my case, but who still identify

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00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: as androgynous. Just as some people bore male have the

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00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: conviction that they should have been born female, I was

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00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: born female, but have the conviction that I should have

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00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: been born some combination of male and female, and most

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00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: I am most comfortable with a mixture of gender roles

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00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: and behaviors. If it were socially acceptable to reassign my

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00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: physical sex to be androgynous to match up with my

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Speaker 1: gender identity, I do it in a heartbeat. However, our

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Speaker 1: society is still so stuck on gender and sex binaries

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Speaker 1: that note therapist or doctor will allow the middle of

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00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: the road sex reassignment. I'd love to hear if any

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Speaker 1: of your other listeners identify as androgyust and I hope

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Speaker 1: that if you read this on the podcast, that this

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Speaker 1: note helps them feel a little less alone. So there

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Speaker 1: you go. Since sol of you for writing in again.

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Speaker 1: Addresses mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com and

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00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: if you would like to add any comments during the week, whatever,

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00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: let us know how you're doing. Any questions, you can

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00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: also head over to our Facebook page and it's just

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00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: facebook dot com slash stuff Mom Never Told You, And

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00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: you can also follow Molly and me on Twitter. We

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Speaker 1: have a Twitter account and it's Mom's Stuff Podcast. I

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00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: know we have so many different iterations of moms stuff, stuff,

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00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: I've Never told You, etcetera. But just but just bear

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00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: with us. And then finally, if you want to follow

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00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: our blog, it is called stuff Mom Never Told You

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00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: and it's found at how stuff works dot com. For

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Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, does it

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00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works,

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00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you