Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to here tonight. You're at the volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday, everybody. Oh, all of you guys are having
Speaker 2: a great week. We're actually recording this on Monday. We're
Speaker 2: airing it on Tuesday. I've got Sam Asine, one of
Speaker 2: the basketball minds in the world that I respect the most,
Speaker 2: someone who I learned a lot from, someone who's super
Speaker 2: well connected, helps me learn a lot more about some
Speaker 2: of the uh the way that the NBA works behind
Speaker 2: the scenes as well. Also a good friend of mine.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to dive into the NBA Finals with you. Sam.
Speaker 2: We have to this point not a whole lot to
Speaker 2: be optimistic about for Dallas, and I've spent a good
Speaker 2: amount of time over the course of the last couple
Speaker 2: of you know, four days or so, explaining all the
Speaker 2: reasons why Boston is giving Dallas problems. But I kind
Speaker 2: of want to focus today more solutions based. So let's start.
Speaker 2: Let's start with Boston on defense. I think the primary
Speaker 2: issue at this point is they're just really struggling to
Speaker 2: contain the basketball. But I also don't view it as
Speaker 2: a problem that's going away. I think they just have
Speaker 2: too many entry points between Gafford and Luca, and even
Speaker 2: like Kaliba was struggling a little bit with some guys
Speaker 2: on the perimeter, Kyrie has been gambling in the post
Speaker 2: and giving up straight line drives as well. So I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily see a universe where Dallas suddenly just puts
Speaker 2: the clamps on Boston on the perimeter. So if you
Speaker 2: were coaching Dallas, what would you do on the defensive
Speaker 2: end to try to gain control of the situation with Boston.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, this is the side of the court where
Speaker 1: the solutions are really hard. I think I think I
Speaker 1: can come up with some solutions on offense where I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I think these are okay. The real problem for Dallas
Speaker 1: on defense is that Boston has been very intentional with
Speaker 1: its spacing, right. They are making sure that Derek Lively
Speaker 1: and Daniel Gafford are above the break basically at all times,
Speaker 1: or if Chris Stops is in, they might have them
Speaker 1: like deep in the corner, and they're just making it
Speaker 1: so that those guys can't contest at the basket, Like
Speaker 1: Derek Lively has played what probably thirty five forty minutes
Speaker 1: in the series and as zero blocks because there's just
Speaker 1: he's not around the basket in those circumstances. So the
Speaker 1: idea here is to try and find a way to
Speaker 1: get their bigs around the basket a little bit more
Speaker 1: and bet on like shooting variants in my opinion, like
Speaker 1: I would want to try and bet on you know
Speaker 1: last night, right, I think it was Christops, sam Hauser,
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown combined went two for twenty from
Speaker 1: the three point line. That's the kind of variance you
Speaker 1: need for it to be a you know, what was it?
Speaker 1: It was a six point game with like a minute
Speaker 1: left something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Boston only had one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I think it was relatively okay, But it
Speaker 1: was okay, not in terms of process. It was in
Speaker 1: terms of shooting variants, I thought, because Sam Houser missed
Speaker 1: like four wide open threes and Christops missed a couple
Speaker 1: of open threes and Tata missed an open three. Like
Speaker 1: when Dallas fans like bring up the fact that you know, oh,
Speaker 1: we also shot twenty three percent from three, I'm just like, well, guys,
Speaker 1: they're leaving Josh Green and Derek Jones open for a reason.
Speaker 1: You aren't leaving Sam Hauser and Jason Tatum and Jaylen
Speaker 1: Brown open for a reason, So I think the shooting
Speaker 1: variants gods are much more likely to be favorable to Boston.
Speaker 1: Even at this point, it feels like Boston has only
Speaker 1: shot well from three and like one quarter maybe like
Speaker 1: a quarter and a half of this series, and it
Speaker 1: was the first quarter and a half, So I would
Speaker 1: look at going toward more of like a matchup zone
Speaker 1: based kind of scheme. They ran a possession of a
Speaker 1: kind of similar matchup be zone situation, I want to say,
Speaker 1: was at like the nine to thirty mark of the
Speaker 1: first quarter against Boston, and I kind of liked the
Speaker 1: way it looked because they would like essentially pre switch
Speaker 1: any sort of screening action, keeping gaffered around the basket
Speaker 1: a little bit more often. That would kind of be
Speaker 1: my idea, go toward more of like a Zony matchup
Speaker 1: based zone. And you might think zoning Boston is a
Speaker 1: terrible idea. I don't disagree. I just don't know that
Speaker 1: they have better options either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of the way I look at it too,
Speaker 2: in the sense that at the like what you're doing
Speaker 2: right now is not working, and yeah, you know, zone
Speaker 2: at the very least service to disrupt rhythm, even if
Speaker 2: you just kind of alternated zone and away from zone
Speaker 2: at kind of random sequences. There's a couple of things
Speaker 2: that they're doing that I really don't understand. Like one
Speaker 2: thing is I think they're applying their ball pressure a
Speaker 2: little too far out, which is a it was, which
Speaker 2: is trump a problem when you're struggling to contain the
Speaker 2: basketball in the sense that like, like there was a
Speaker 2: play where Drew Holliday's bringing the ball up the floor
Speaker 2: on the left side and PJ. Washington's like kicking him
Speaker 2: up like full court and Drew ends up making like
Speaker 2: kind of like a spin move towards the sideline, and
Speaker 2: he's a little out of control. But when you're that
Speaker 2: far away from the basket, you're not immediately ending up
Speaker 2: in bodies. You have an opportunity to regain control and
Speaker 2: kind of get your feet straight as you're kind of
Speaker 2: going downhill and making a play. So like part of
Speaker 2: it is I kind of would lean more on going
Speaker 2: more passive in the sense that not just not just
Speaker 2: in ball pressure, but also in isolation situations, giving ground
Speaker 2: baiting pull up jump shots rather than trying to pressure
Speaker 2: the basketball. So much. I like what you talked about
Speaker 2: with the pre switching too. It's it's comical to me
Speaker 2: how easily they're allowing, you know, Gafford to end up
Speaker 2: on Tatum twenty five feet from the basket or Luca
Speaker 2: to end up that far away. You called it a
Speaker 2: matchup zone, and that's a great way to kind of
Speaker 2: look at it, in the sense that if you have
Speaker 2: guys out above the break who are essentially there to guard,
Speaker 2: and if Gafford's man runs up to go set a
Speaker 2: screen or something like that, if you just let those
Speaker 2: guys solve that problem and just kind of rejigger the
Speaker 2: matchups behind them, you can figure out a way to
Speaker 2: kind of keep your situation more favorable. But in general,
Speaker 2: I think focusing more on contained rather than pressure in
Speaker 2: the sense that it's almost like a more passive version
Speaker 2: of defense. Because one of the things is like, we're
Speaker 2: so accustomed to Boston losing their head and playing a
Speaker 2: really silly brand of basketball, and they just haven't done
Speaker 2: that in this series. There was a brief stretch spanning
Speaker 2: the end of the second quarter in early third in
Speaker 2: Game one where they went like five minutes of game
Speaker 2: clock where they didn't get a single touch in the
Speaker 2: paint where you're like, what are you guys doing? But
Speaker 2: aside from that, they've actually played like a grown up
Speaker 2: basketball team. I got a credit Tatum and Brown. I
Speaker 2: think they've just done a really nice job of just
Speaker 2: yea understanding the assignment. I think Joe Mizzoula talks about
Speaker 2: like the different phases of the drive, like don't try
Speaker 2: to hit a home run on the first drive. To me,
Speaker 2: that's like advantage creation versus advantage extending. Like your job
Speaker 2: is not to get an assist on the first drive.
Speaker 2: You just need to compromise the defense. And they've done
Speaker 2: a really good job of that. And so if you
Speaker 2: can get into a situation where you have more favorable
Speaker 2: matchups on Tatum and Brown and you focus more on contain,
Speaker 2: I think that serves to better bait Boston into their
Speaker 2: worst tendencies. But no matter what, they've got to do
Speaker 2: something I don't understand as a scenario where you just
Speaker 2: continue to let Luca kind of sit on an island.
Speaker 2: I don't think this is Harden and PG. Remember how
Speaker 2: like Harden and Paul George, like Luca kind of sort
Speaker 2: of started to contain them a little bit in some moments.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to be able to do
Speaker 2: that about against Brown and Tatum.
Speaker 1: To you, well, he's a good matchup for Harden because
Speaker 1: Harden can't really blow by like he can just body
Speaker 1: up against Harden. Paul George is like a little bit
Speaker 1: more willing to settle from three than what Jason's. Them
Speaker 1: and Jalen Brown are Jalen and Jason. They're going to
Speaker 1: try and get downhill and get to the rim at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. And a big piece of
Speaker 1: that is I think that Boston's again, like I brought
Speaker 1: up spacing earlier, it can't go unnoticed here, right, the
Speaker 1: fact that they have five guys on the court at
Speaker 1: all times who can shoot, and not just shoot, but
Speaker 1: are probably like forty percent three point shooters if you
Speaker 1: leave them open, outside of maybe Drew Holiday, but Drew
Speaker 1: Holiday hit forty percent of his catch and shoot threes
Speaker 1: this year. I think that it makes it a lot
Speaker 1: harder to kind of do what you're suggesting. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that you're wrong. I think you are right that
Speaker 1: they need to play more conservatively, but it makes it
Speaker 1: harder because the driving lanes are just wider. Right, they're
Speaker 1: wider against Boston than they are against even like Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City or Cleat or the Clippers. Right, it just makes
Speaker 1: it way more difficult, I think to contain those drives,
Speaker 1: Like Derek Jones Junior is like pressuring Jalen Brown at
Speaker 1: the three point line even, which is kind of what
Speaker 1: you have to do. And the lane to Jalen Brown's
Speaker 1: right is just so wide and his first step is
Speaker 1: so good that it almost doesn't matter. Right, Like, I
Speaker 1: agree with you, like some of the like silly bs
Speaker 1: stuff that you know PJ. Washington is doing, right, Like
Speaker 1: the fact that he like keeps same side helping and
Speaker 1: doubling and like digging into guy's handles on these drives
Speaker 1: is just driving me crazy. Like he had he had
Speaker 1: the one in Game two where it was like a
Speaker 1: bounce pass out to Derek White and Derek White just
Speaker 1: like caught and like immediately gathered into no pointer, no
Speaker 1: dipped it. It was just like, well, come on, like
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? Also, they need to stop
Speaker 1: with like the scrambled double team stuff that they've done,
Speaker 1: you know, sparingly in game one. In Game two, you know,
Speaker 1: I think they did a decent amount when they panicked
Speaker 1: in Game one, and then there's another possession in Game two,
Speaker 1: I believe where PJ. Washington did like a post to
Speaker 1: post double on I think it was Tatum who got
Speaker 1: a mismall.
Speaker 2: They've been doubling Tatum in the post a lot.
Speaker 1: I hate it. You can't do it. He's too good
Speaker 1: of a passer. Boston is too good at keeping the
Speaker 1: advantage by rolling that ball around the perimeter. I truly
Speaker 1: think that you need to make Tatum just like a
Speaker 1: fade away post scorer at the end of the day
Speaker 1: in those circumstances, kind of like you're saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the when you play solid positional defense against Tatum,
Speaker 2: where like you just keep your body in front, even
Speaker 2: though he will have his possessions in the game where
Speaker 2: he just goes right through you like a superstar and
Speaker 2: dunks it, he'll settle for you know, two or three
Speaker 2: right shoulder fades and left shoulder fades as well. And
Speaker 2: like they're doing this too, where it's like it'll be
Speaker 2: like Kyrie catches in the post against Tatum and he'll
Speaker 2: just immediately overplay the high side and then they'll zone
Speaker 2: up on the backside and then Tatum will just make
Speaker 2: an easy bounce pass out of it, like they're the
Speaker 2: over aggression is crazy, the strong side corner help from PJ. Washington.
Speaker 2: In general, they were better in game two than they
Speaker 2: were in Game one, but in general, through two games,
Speaker 2: I think they overhelped, which is part of it. I
Speaker 2: feel like is reprogramming yourself because Minnesota was the series
Speaker 2: where you wanted to overhelp, like that was how they
Speaker 2: beat you. And in so many ways, to me, this
Speaker 2: comes down to matchups, like matchups have determined so much
Speaker 2: of the championship picture this year because Denver was ill
Speaker 2: equipped to deal with what Minnesota brought defensively, Minnesota was
Speaker 2: ill equipped to deal with what Dallas brought defensively, and
Speaker 2: Dallas is now ill equipped for Boston on both ends
Speaker 2: of the floor. And like again, the I like to
Speaker 2: bring it back to something you've said at the beginning, too,
Speaker 2: if do what Boston's doing, like we're about to move
Speaker 2: to Boston on offense or defense. And I thought Joe
Speaker 2: Miszula's game plan has been literally brilliant, And I can't
Speaker 2: say enough how much I've I've appreciated just not just
Speaker 2: the not just the game plan itself, but the execution
Speaker 2: of it through the first two games. But everything with
Speaker 2: Joe Mizula is about tilting Dallas's offense towards above the
Speaker 2: breakthree for guys like Derek Jones, Junior, PJ. Washington maxically,
Speaker 2: but Josh Green, you know, Dante X, some of these
Speaker 2: kinds of guys. And to your point, like you gotta
Speaker 2: lean into that with Boston too, in the sense that
Speaker 2: you overplay the corners, and if Porzingis is gonna take
Speaker 2: a bunch of above the break threes, or Horford is
Speaker 2: gonna take a bunch of above the break threes, or
Speaker 2: even Jaylen Brown, you kind of have to live with
Speaker 2: it to a certain extent. With a contest, obviously, you
Speaker 2: want to offer that contest because that's the other thing too,
Speaker 2: Like Boston's getting out on those guys, they're just they're
Speaker 2: they're offering a contest after the fact, and so like
Speaker 2: I think you have to kind of choose the lesser
Speaker 2: of two evils, and taking away the rim and taking
Speaker 2: away the corner I think is the best pathway to
Speaker 2: them for them to try to play Boston towards their
Speaker 2: lowest shot quality. And then you pointed this out, but
Speaker 2: like Porzingis. I think he looked a little shaky in
Speaker 2: game two. Uh, Drew Holliday went hit a couple of threes,
Speaker 2: But if he's above the break instead of in the corner,
Speaker 2: I think you like those results a little bit better.
Speaker 2: So I think like trying to be smart about where
Speaker 2: you help from would go a long way. But to
Speaker 2: your point, like, this is the end of the floor
Speaker 2: that I think Dallas has the fewest answers. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: honestly I don't. I don't see a universe where they
Speaker 2: like just strangle this Boston offense. And the worst part
Speaker 2: about it is this was the game you had to win.
Speaker 2: Boston got zero points seventy five points per jump shot
Speaker 2: in game two. That's the one you have to win.
Speaker 2: Dallas actually out shot Boston on jump shots in game two.
Speaker 2: You had to get that one, and you didn't get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: moving over to the other side of the floor, go ahead,
Speaker 2: did you?
Speaker 1: I was going to say, like maybe this will be
Speaker 1: the way to transition from that's out of the court
Speaker 1: to this side of the court. A big problem for
Speaker 1: me has been just Derek White has been like or
Speaker 1: not Derek White. Derek Lively has been like completely ineffectual
Speaker 1: in this series, right, I am wondering if they should
Speaker 1: use some of those minutes that you're giving to Derek
Speaker 1: Lively and go small with like PJ. Washington at the
Speaker 1: five and just see what happens. I don't think it
Speaker 1: could be worse because the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: you're not getting the rim protection anyway from Lively because
Speaker 1: they're just pulling them away from the basket. Now, Like,
Speaker 1: if they're gonna play zone and adjust that way, great,
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm interested in seeing that playing more of
Speaker 1: a matchup zone, Like we talked about finding ways to
Speaker 1: get their rim protectors at the rim. If you're gonna
Speaker 1: do that, great. Another option here could just be to
Speaker 1: tried out gun Boston at the end of the day
Speaker 1: and say, hey, we're not getting the rim protection anyway,
Speaker 1: let's try and go like full you know, being able
Speaker 1: to contain them on the perimeter on defense, just trying
Speaker 1: to stop them from getting to the rim. Derek Lively
Speaker 1: is not going to be better at that than our
Speaker 1: perimeter defenders are, and just try and go five out
Speaker 1: and go like PJ. Washington at the five. You probably
Speaker 1: have to play Derek Jones still because Derek Jones is
Speaker 1: such a critical defender against Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1: But then you play, you know, honestly, like I might
Speaker 1: dust off Tim Hardaway June Year next to Kyrie and
Speaker 1: Luca and just try and outgun them and outshoot them
Speaker 1: and hope that Tim Hardaway catches fire while you're containing
Speaker 1: them on the perimeter a little bit, Tim makes it
Speaker 1: harder to contain them. But like you're just not getting
Speaker 1: anything from that center position anyway. And that's why I
Speaker 1: think it might be worth like transitioning talking about this
Speaker 1: now when we transition from defense to offense, if you're
Speaker 1: able to space them out, I think that that would
Speaker 1: cause Boston's defense, particularly when Christops is on the court,
Speaker 1: a little bit more stress than what we've seen so far.
Speaker 2: No, I think this is a really good take, And
Speaker 2: I actually was talking about this with my buddy Combo
Speaker 2: this morning. I went on his podcast and he actually
Speaker 2: presented this idea. And I find it fascinating in two ways.
Speaker 2: Because to your point, yeah, you're not getting any rim
Speaker 2: protection from Livelier Gafford because of the way they're setting
Speaker 2: up the floor. In addition to that, Boston's doing a
Speaker 2: pretty solid job of making decisions when they get to
Speaker 2: the rim. Their speed that and it doesn't matter how
Speaker 2: good Derek Jones is at containing the basketball if he's
Speaker 2: never on the ball, because they're switching and ending up
Speaker 2: with Luca and just attacking through Luca, and so rotational
Speaker 2: speed becomes more valuable. So, for instance, like a guy
Speaker 2: like Tim Hardaway Junior, if you put him on the ball,
Speaker 2: his value is pretty low. But like if you're asking
Speaker 2: him to sprint around in rotation, as long as he's
Speaker 2: playing hard and understands where he's supposed to be next,
Speaker 2: he might be able to do that job at least
Speaker 2: to a certain extent. Then that pushes us to the
Speaker 2: other end of the floor because you're right, like to me,
Speaker 2: the number one factor that is disrupting Dallas's offense is
Speaker 2: Tatum on the center because essentially what's happening is it's
Speaker 2: not just that because Horford is switching onto Luca beautifully.
Speaker 2: In general, Jalen Brown is doing a great job on
Speaker 2: the ball. It's a team effort. I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: underestimate that. But the entire geometry, the way that Denver
Speaker 2: or Dallas wants to attack in the half court with
Speaker 2: their pick and roll game is thrown off by the
Speaker 2: fact that Lively and Gafford are in the dunker spot
Speaker 2: rather than setting screens and rolling towards a vacant painted area.
Speaker 2: And so to me, like to your point, they need
Speaker 2: to try to mess with the spacing the same way
Speaker 2: that Boston has been And what that means is you
Speaker 2: need to make sure that you have above the break
Speaker 2: three point shooters above the break. So who are the
Speaker 2: guys for Dallas that I actually like shooting above the
Speaker 2: break threes? It's Kyrie, It's Luca, It's Tim Hardaway Junior.
Speaker 2: And if there was one of the role guys that
Speaker 2: I feel most comfortable up there, it's probably Dante Exhum
Speaker 2: believe it or not. He actually hit one in Game two,
Speaker 2: but he's just got a really good set shot where
Speaker 2: if he's got all day, I actually like him up there.
Speaker 2: But he's not a great option. But the point is,
Speaker 2: if you can find a way to set up the
Speaker 2: floor to where you have Derek Jones and PJ. Washington
Speaker 2: in the corners and you don't have an occupied dunker
Speaker 2: spot and you're running action up top with Tim Hardaway
Speaker 2: Junior and Luca just like ghost screens and stuff, and
Speaker 2: Luca's compromising the defense and working with a vacant paint.
Speaker 2: I think that that's serves to at least open things
Speaker 2: up for you on the offensive end of the floor.
Speaker 2: But the one problem I would have there is, to
Speaker 2: this point in this series, Dallas has held up pretty
Speaker 2: well in the glass. As a matter of fact, it's
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty in rebound percentage through the two games.
Speaker 2: I do worry about just the sheer athleticism advantage for
Speaker 2: Boston tilting in that sense and them starting to do
Speaker 2: a bunch of damage on the offensive glass. Do you
Speaker 2: think that that would be an issue.
Speaker 1: I don't know that it would be necessarily. I think
Speaker 1: it could be for sure, But like with how much
Speaker 1: they're spacing their bigs away from the rim, it would
Speaker 1: be an awful big ass for you to say, Christops,
Speaker 1: we need you to crush the offensive glass and then
Speaker 1: get all the way back on defense against Kyrie, who
Speaker 1: does tend to push the pace. Like if it was
Speaker 1: just Luca on the court, I think that would be
Speaker 1: a bit more of a concern. But when Kyrie is
Speaker 1: out there, and Kyrie is willing to go a little
Speaker 1: bit more often whereas Luke is going to slow it
Speaker 1: up a little bit more. I don't think they would
Speaker 1: crush them necessarily, given how intentional they're being about their
Speaker 1: spacing with their bigs away from the rim right now,
Speaker 1: particularly now. The way that I felt Dallas got the
Speaker 1: advantage on Minnesota in that series was utilizing more double
Speaker 1: screen actions double drags, particularly where you'd have Mike Conley
Speaker 1: be the guy having to guard that first ball screen
Speaker 1: defender or be the first ball screen defender, right, because
Speaker 1: typically the way teams that the wait teams navigate those
Speaker 1: is they will switch the first one and then they
Speaker 1: will play drop in the second one, right, Especially Minnesota
Speaker 1: with Ridy Gobert, right, they want to be able to
Speaker 1: play switch and then drop. That ended up resulting in
Speaker 1: a lot of mismatches where Mike Conley was on Luka
Speaker 1: Doncic or Mike Conley was on Kyrie Irving coming off
Speaker 1: and that was able to create an advantage, or when
Speaker 1: Minnesota started to adjust, it created a lot of communication errors. Right,
Speaker 1: been surprised about the level to which Dallas has not
Speaker 1: really run as many double drags double screen actions in
Speaker 1: this series.
Speaker 2: To this point.
Speaker 1: I would like to see more of them. I think, now,
Speaker 1: who were you trying to attack? This kind of solves
Speaker 1: the problem that you were saying. I actually think that
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum has been incredible off the ball in this series,
Speaker 1: A sneaky think. He's kind of been the one guy
Speaker 1: that you can get on the ball a little bit
Speaker 1: more often than what people think. I might try and
Speaker 1: get him switched on to Luca a little bit more often,
Speaker 1: or switched particularly onto Kyrie a little bit more often
Speaker 1: to get him going and then try and make that
Speaker 1: work that way where like you have Christops in a drop,
Speaker 1: but again to do this, man, it gets hard though,
Speaker 1: because like then you have Christops and drop and he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna out high point Daniel Gafford, but they caught
Speaker 1: Rudy in these circumstances, and maybe this is it, Like
Speaker 1: maybe you just go if you're still gonna play big,
Speaker 1: you go with like a double drag at the top,
Speaker 1: you try and get Luca on. You're trying to get
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum on Luca, and then you see how it goes.
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Speaker 2: and responsible gaming resources. Yeah, I've noticed that too, where Luke,
Speaker 2: Because Luca is hunting Tatum a lot in the first
Speaker 2: half of game two, and it's just the simple thing
Speaker 2: that Luca does to everybody wants to get that little
Speaker 2: bit of an angle on you. It's just over because
Speaker 2: he's so damn big. The what I worry about with
Speaker 2: like the double screen action is especially when Horford's out there,
Speaker 2: I think Boston is just totally fine with Horford on Luca.
Speaker 2: Now the one thing that I've struggled to understand, as
Speaker 2: it pertains to in the Porzingis lineups, Why in the
Speaker 2: world have they not tried to go ahead?
Speaker 1: Well, the Porzingis lineups are the ones that are killing
Speaker 1: them though, like that, if you take away those lineups,
Speaker 1: like it's basically an even series so far.
Speaker 2: M Well, and so the specifically with Porzingis, And I've
Speaker 2: been so impressed by Porzingis defensively in the series, even
Speaker 2: on switches. I think he's done a pretty good job.
Speaker 2: Why because when you actually see Boston end up with
Speaker 2: poor Zingus, whether it's a transition cross match or something,
Speaker 2: or Porzingis is on Lively or Gafford, you can actually
Speaker 2: see Dallas's offense click back into shape. They're like the
Speaker 2: big dunk that Derek Lively had in the second half
Speaker 2: over Derek White. It was a miss pushing transition cross match.
Speaker 2: Tatum ended up on Derek Jones in the right corner
Speaker 2: or left corner. They ran the ball screen, just easy
Speaker 2: pocket pass to Lively. Lively dunks all over Derek White.
Speaker 2: Why hasn't and I called for this after game one
Speaker 2: and maybe there has to be something I'm missing. Why
Speaker 2: hasn't Dallas tried a ram screen to just get Tatum
Speaker 2: to concede the switch, cause and basically what I'm what
Speaker 2: I'm looking at there is like just adding that if
Speaker 2: you're gonna if you're gonna let Boston guards your pick
Speaker 2: and roll three on three, meaning like you're gonna let
Speaker 2: them have Tatum parked underneath the basket while you have
Speaker 2: Derek Jones either trying to roll into all that traff
Speaker 2: or pop above the break, why not instead of having
Speaker 2: Gafford or Lively just stand there because they're not doing
Speaker 2: damage on the offensive glass. Neither team is really doing
Speaker 2: that much damage on the offensive glass, how do you
Speaker 2: keep him engaged? And to me, like what I would
Speaker 2: like to see And part of this is like they
Speaker 2: got to get the ball up the floor quicker, Like
Speaker 2: they've got to get up into their offense quicker. But
Speaker 2: once they get up the floor, what I'd love to
Speaker 2: see is have PJ or Derek Jones Junior just run
Speaker 2: like sprint down and screen Tatum hard, and then as
Speaker 2: the screen is to have Lively sprint up into the action,
Speaker 2: I think they'll concede the switch and let Porzingis run
Speaker 2: up into the ball screen. From there, I would literally
Speaker 2: turn around and turn it into stack pick and roll,
Speaker 2: And as Luca comes off the ball screen and Lively's rolling,
Speaker 2: I turn around in backscreen porzingis again and just kind
Speaker 2: of adds some confusion because to me, this is ending
Speaker 2: up in way too many ISOs, Like in general, there's
Speaker 2: very few roll man opportunities, a very few spot up oppertunities.
Speaker 2: I pulled this stat this morning. Through two games, sixty
Speaker 2: eight spot up opportunities for Boston, twenty eight for Dallas
Speaker 2: according to Synergy. That's just insane. And part of the
Speaker 2: reason is is like, because of the fact that Boston
Speaker 2: has Tatum parked under the basket, they haven't needed to
Speaker 2: engage any of the corner defenders in to guard the action,
Speaker 2: so those guys aren't getting open. And so like I
Speaker 2: through two games, I haven't seen a single ram screen.
Speaker 2: Am I like just screaming at the ether here? Or
Speaker 2: do you think that that Boston would just switch all
Speaker 2: those things easily and shut it off? Like, what do
Speaker 2: you think is the reason why we haven't seen to
Speaker 2: your point, the double drag I think falls into this
Speaker 2: list too. Haven't we seen more complications in pick and roll?
Speaker 2: To try to make this work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like you brought up like stack spain ball
Speaker 1: screens too, Like that was literally going to be my
Speaker 1: next point. It's like, why haven't we seen too many
Speaker 1: of those? Like it's just that they're making it so easy.
Speaker 1: The thing that I feel like they're doing most often
Speaker 1: when Christops is out there is they're just running like
Speaker 1: empty ball screens to try and just like make him
Speaker 1: guard in like a big o't of space basically. And
Speaker 1: that's where I'm glad that you brought up that you
Speaker 1: think he's done a pretty good job. They're just willing
Speaker 1: to concede. Like a lot of times It'steric White who
Speaker 1: ends up on Christops, or it's one of the other
Speaker 1: wings or whatever, and they're just like willing to concede
Speaker 1: that three to those guys, and that ends up being
Speaker 1: a little bit too easy for them. So I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you. It requires much more screening and movement.
Speaker 1: I thought that what they ran early in the second
Speaker 1: quarter actually is kind of similar to what you're saying.
Speaker 1: It was a little bit different in terms of functionality,
Speaker 1: but they ran a set three straight times to start
Speaker 1: the second quarter where they essentially set a similar it's
Speaker 1: not a ram screen. It's just like a middle screen
Speaker 1: for Luca to come up and get the ball at
Speaker 1: the elbow essentially, And the first time he got switched
Speaker 1: on to Peyton Pritchard and ended up shooting like a
Speaker 1: mid range jumper over him, and it was an easy
Speaker 1: shot and he drilled it. The second one they ran
Speaker 1: a counter off of it where they had the screener
Speaker 1: come down screen for Luca, who then veered off to
Speaker 1: the right, and then Dante exum sprinted down and set
Speaker 1: like a second screen for Luca to give him a
Speaker 1: wide open corner.
Speaker 2: Three.
Speaker 1: I agree with you that I think engaging those defenders
Speaker 1: right around the basket with screening actions is a really,
Speaker 1: really good way to actually be able to try and
Speaker 1: get the matchups in the mismatches that you're kind of
Speaker 1: hoping for in those circumstances, be it out of ram
Speaker 1: screens or screen middle ball screens just to get Luca
Speaker 1: the ball at the elbow, or whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1: But completely one hundred percent agree with you, and I
Speaker 1: think that running like a stack or spain off of
Speaker 1: that is even more lethal, and I'm surprised that they
Speaker 1: haven't gone to it more it really is just more
Speaker 1: I am surprised that they have not run more like
Speaker 1: combo screen actions basically to be able to try and
Speaker 1: get their guys free and to be able to force
Speaker 1: more communication within the Boston defense.
Speaker 2: I think they need to do it off ball too, Like,
Speaker 2: if Gafford and Lively are not catching lobs out of
Speaker 2: the dunkers and they're not getting offensive rebounds out of
Speaker 2: the dunker spot, you need to have them running off
Speaker 2: ball screening actions like they just at this point, what
Speaker 2: Boston has done is they've taken all of the strengths
Speaker 2: of your role players and they've just kind of reconfigured
Speaker 2: where they are on the floor to make it so
Speaker 2: that their weaknesses. PJ. Washington great corner three point shooter,
Speaker 2: he's not getting corner three point looks, you know. Derrek
Speaker 2: Jones Jr. Great a good corner three point shooter, a
Speaker 2: good slasher of closeouts, but he's like he's operating as
Speaker 2: a pick and roll roll man now, which is like
Speaker 2: a completely different kind of job for him. Lively and
Speaker 2: Gafford are these rim runners who are not running. They're
Speaker 2: stuck in the mud down in the dunker spot, and
Speaker 2: so in general, I just want to see so much
Speaker 2: more off ball screening action. And the main reason why
Speaker 2: is like, I do not think Dallas can beat Boston
Speaker 2: by isoating them to death. I don't think this is
Speaker 2: I don't think this is you know, the twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: calves where you're gonna get like, you know, forty a
Speaker 2: piece out of them the rest. So I think the
Speaker 2: deep defensive personnel for Boston is too good. Those those
Speaker 2: Cavs teams had matchups that they could attack. This is
Speaker 2: not that type of series. I think they've got to
Speaker 2: try to find a way to free some things up there.
Speaker 2: And again, like to me, it's it's just got to
Speaker 2: be more of that kind of screening action. I did
Speaker 2: like that Lucas seemed to target the smaller guards more
Speaker 2: in game two. They didn't that they scored a lot
Speaker 2: more in the post in game two than they did
Speaker 2: in game one. I thought Luca ran out of gas
Speaker 2: there towards the end as he missed those couple over
Speaker 2: over Pritchard that he normally makes. But like the I
Speaker 2: don't think attacking Horford is an option. Horford is, you know,
Speaker 2: Horford is probably in my lifetime, the best that I've
Speaker 2: seen of like as a positional just like read where
Speaker 2: you're going, beat you to the spot, take the contact,
Speaker 2: and make you shoot over the top of any center
Speaker 2: I've seen. I think he's one of the best at that.
Speaker 2: I think that's why he did such a good job
Speaker 2: on him Bead over the years. I think that's why,
Speaker 2: like the the big power players, he just guards so
Speaker 2: well and like every time Luca gets him on a switch,
Speaker 2: I just don't think that's an option. And so one
Speaker 2: of the things I liked about that sequence that you
Speaker 2: were talking about there in the start of the second
Speaker 2: quarter is kind of like targeting, Like instead of having
Speaker 2: Luca just hunt in like ball screen switch, then work
Speaker 2: off the dribble, dribble twenty five times, get him catches
Speaker 2: where he already is in a good, strong position where
Speaker 2: it's the jobs a little bit easier. But no matter what,
Speaker 2: they're going to have to do more in terms of
Speaker 2: those screening actions to try to free things up. What
Speaker 2: do you think what's your just overall opinion of this
Speaker 2: series at this point with Boston up two ozho, how
Speaker 2: do you see things changing slash not changing as we
Speaker 2: go to Dallas.
Speaker 1: I don't see much changing because last night was like
Speaker 1: you kind of said the night that Dallas had to
Speaker 1: get it. And the fact that those four guys I
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Howser, Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown went two for
Speaker 1: twenty from three, that just feels deeply troubling to me
Speaker 1: if I'm a fan, Like the fact that this game
Speaker 1: probably should have been a twenty point loss in my opinion, Like,
Speaker 1: even while Dallas was up four, I was texting with
Speaker 1: my podcast partner Bryce, and we were just sitting there, going,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be ten before halftime, Like they're gonna
Speaker 1: start shooting at some point, they're gonna start making these shots,
Speaker 1: and they never did, and they never really did throughout
Speaker 1: the course of the entire game outside of Drew Holiday
Speaker 1: I think made two, when Derek White made maybe four
Speaker 1: of ten if I remember correctly. But like they shoot
Speaker 1: twenty six percent from three, They're not gonna shoot twenty
Speaker 1: six percent from three again in all likelihood, Like, man,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know that we've come up with
Speaker 1: good enough solutions here to change the tenor of this series. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it's that's what.
Speaker 2: We're trying, though.
Speaker 1: You were trying, like I want, I want like there
Speaker 1: to be excitement. I would love for Dallas to come
Speaker 1: back and like luc could go out and dropped like
Speaker 1: a fifty point triple double. But I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: what do you think?
Speaker 2: Well? And then Boston is also just like a but
Speaker 2: there I do. I do think they're a better road
Speaker 2: team than they are home team, in large part because
Speaker 2: I think that there's something about the challenge on the
Speaker 2: road that keeps them more engaged. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: they're a victim of their own talent in so many cases.
Speaker 2: I mean, both of their home losses in this playoff
Speaker 2: run were just absolute dud defensive efforts, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: think we're going to see that sort of thing. Let's
Speaker 2: just put it this way. What's more likely this series
Speaker 2: comes back to Boston to two or it's a sweep.
Speaker 1: I think a sweep is more likely. The thing that
Speaker 1: I will ask you though, Christops didn't look super hot
Speaker 1: at the end of Game two, right, Like, he wasn't
Speaker 1: moving as fluidly. This is what we've seen. If he is,
Speaker 1: you know, unable to play twenty minutes in game three,
Speaker 1: or you know, if he god forbid, he sits like
Speaker 1: nobody's rooting for that. But whatever, I actually do think
Speaker 1: that changes the series substantially in terms of the matchup
Speaker 1: to the Boston will be able or Dallas will be
Speaker 1: able to get on the defensive side of the court
Speaker 1: whenever Al Horford is out. And again, the Poorzingis minutes
Speaker 1: are the ones that are killing Dallas right now, because
Speaker 1: those are the minutes where Boston is like five out,
Speaker 1: extremely well spaced, you can't help off anybody like from anywhere.
Speaker 1: If Porzingis was to miss time, I do think that
Speaker 1: genuinely changes the entire schematics of what we're talking about here,
Speaker 1: and like really would change the series drastically.
Speaker 2: Well, to put it simply, if Cornette was out there,
Speaker 2: it would just be a disaster. If I was Boston,
Speaker 2: I'd probably even look to go small if that were
Speaker 2: I would, just because, you know, because Dallas hasn't been
Speaker 2: able to capitalize in seize mismatches in this series. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's I mean, that's the one wrinkle is the is
Speaker 2: the Porzingis injury piece of it. And even then even
Speaker 2: then I think I'd probably lean Boston. But yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the that's the one wrinkle I look at. I agree
Speaker 2: with you, I think it's far more likely this is
Speaker 2: a sweep than to two. Coming back to Boston. The
Speaker 2: problem is is, like, the game plan is the game plan. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think Joe Miszula is gonna overreact if Derek
Speaker 2: Jones and PJ. Washington hit seven above the break threes
Speaker 2: in game three. The game plan is the game plan.
Speaker 2: The quality opportunities aren't gonna be there.
Speaker 1: You know what's amazing about that this was exactly what
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City wanted to do. This is exactly what their
Speaker 1: strategy was. We're gonna let Eric Jones and PJ. Washington
Speaker 1: beat us. And I think that Boston is executing it better,
Speaker 1: particularly in terms of the corners, right. They're denying them the.
Speaker 2: Yeah I remember more corner corner threes, Yeah, which is
Speaker 2: the key.
Speaker 1: And I actually think that's a really really important point
Speaker 1: that you made earlier, that they're denying them the spots
Speaker 1: that they want to shoot threes. But man, it is
Speaker 1: a little bit funny that like everyone like roasted Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City a little bit for just being like, we're gonna
Speaker 1: leave PJ. Washington open and now here, Boston is basically
Speaker 1: executing the strategy of leaving PJ. Washington open, And it's working.
Speaker 2: Dude. I felt so confident that Oklahoma City was going
Speaker 2: to lose. I picked against him in that series, but
Speaker 2: I felt very confident they were going to lose in
Speaker 2: the first two rounds, and they did. But I left
Speaker 2: that playoff run being so much higher on Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: for next year. Like they're they're nasty, they're mean, their
Speaker 2: physical lou dort is just that is like such a weapon.
Speaker 2: I love that Oklahoma City team. All right, So we
Speaker 2: have two more quick things I want to hip four
Speaker 2: get out here. One. You had texted me about a
Speaker 2: question you wanted to ask I do surrounding this series.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm pulling it up right now. I want
Speaker 1: to get it like that on it. Do you have
Speaker 1: an overarching big takeaway from this playoff run in terms
Speaker 1: of if you were building a team for next year's
Speaker 1: title picture, is there something you would be looking at
Speaker 1: from an overall Skars perspective that you see as a
Speaker 1: potential you know, point of attack or like something that
Speaker 1: is exceptionally valuable or a marginal advantage beyond just like
Speaker 1: having superstars, right, Because if anything, I think what you know,
Speaker 1: this series has shown us and this playoffs has shown
Speaker 1: us is it doesn't take one of the top three
Speaker 1: guys in the league to win a title right now
Speaker 1: with how the NBA is, So, is there a schematic
Speaker 1: marginal advantage or like a roster construction marginal advantage that
Speaker 1: you're looking at you're taking away from the playoffs to
Speaker 1: take forward into the future.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've been thinking a lot about this. First
Speaker 2: of all, that the last bit there. I do generally
Speaker 2: think you need a top three player. I think Jokic was,
Speaker 2: I think Steph Was, I think Giannis Was, I think
Speaker 2: Lebron Was, I think Kawhi Was. I think I think this.
Speaker 2: I think this is five thirty million dollar players on
Speaker 2: one team. I think that's what Boston is. So I
Speaker 2: I do. But from the schematic angle, I I do
Speaker 2: think that five out is a more resilient offense than
Speaker 2: four out in the sense that like just one simple
Speaker 2: matchup tweak just let's put our centers on bad above
Speaker 2: the break three point shooters and let's put Tatum on
Speaker 2: the center has like completely crumbled Dallas's offense in so
Speaker 2: many different ways, Whereas like when you run a five
Speaker 2: out attack, there are just so many different angles that
Speaker 2: you can work in. So many different ways you can
Speaker 2: reconfigure spots on the floor to make things work, whereas
Speaker 2: like if you're a spread, pick and roll four out
Speaker 2: one end team, it's just as difficult. And so I
Speaker 2: do think from a I do think from a stylistic standpoint,
Speaker 2: I think teams have to have a five out look,
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be surprised if that's something that we
Speaker 2: I think we'll see Luca in a five out offense
Speaker 2: before too long here, in the next few years, I
Speaker 2: think that there will be a team that tries to
Speaker 2: put him in that type of situation. That said, though,
Speaker 2: the reason why I've struggled so much with this question
Speaker 2: because in transparency, Sam did text me this question so
Speaker 2: I could think about it. Denver is so different from
Speaker 2: this Boston team in so many different ways. Then even
Speaker 2: just the difference between like like play finishers versus like
Speaker 2: do it all guys like to me, KCP and Michael
Speaker 2: Porter Junior and Aaron Gordon are play finishers. They can
Speaker 2: operate in a five out offense. But like we saw
Speaker 2: in the Minnesota series, how how much Denver struggled as
Speaker 2: soon as they solved the Jamal and jokis like it
Speaker 2: just it just kind of crumbled from there, right, Like
Speaker 2: I I think that, I think that in general, you've
Speaker 2: got to build a roster base or you've got to
Speaker 2: build a game plan based on what your roster is.
Speaker 2: So for instance, like to Missoula's credit, he really has
Speaker 2: kind of maximized this group offensively in so many different
Speaker 2: ways by getting them to buy into drive and kick.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, if I had
Speaker 2: to pick one thing, it'd be versatility of play style
Speaker 2: on both ends of the floor. Yeah, I think that inevitably,
Speaker 2: Like the Eastern Conference was really easy this year because
Speaker 2: there were five good teams and four of them ended
Speaker 2: up on one side of the bracket and they all
Speaker 2: beat the heck out of each other and got hurt.
Speaker 2: And then Boston had the other three bad teams and
Speaker 2: they and they got out of it. But I do
Speaker 2: think the East is going to be tougher in the future.
Speaker 2: I think Orlando is gonna be tougher. I think teams
Speaker 2: are going to enter into that picture. So in general,
Speaker 2: we saw this in the West. We just talked about
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the show. The matchup, like the
Speaker 2: matchup resiliency as you're working through the Conference. I think
Speaker 2: you've got to be able to beat different types of
Speaker 2: teams along the way, and so I do think you
Speaker 2: have to be like I think you have to be
Speaker 2: able to defend in a deep drop and in a
Speaker 2: high drop. I think you got to have his own look.
Speaker 2: I think you got to be able to have some
Speaker 2: guys that can hold up on switches. I think on
Speaker 2: the offensive end of the floor, I think you have
Speaker 2: to be able to play out of the post. I
Speaker 2: think you have to be able to play out of
Speaker 2: pick and roll. I think you have to be able
Speaker 2: to match up hunt in isolation. I think there's a
Speaker 2: certain like variety that you need to have, because I
Speaker 2: don't think this Dallas team was the best basketball team
Speaker 2: in the Western Conference. Personally. Yeah, I think Denver was,
Speaker 2: But I think Denver caught a really difficult matchup and
Speaker 2: then that team had a really bad time with Dallas.
Speaker 2: And I would argue that both Minnesota and Denver would
Speaker 2: have fared better against Boston than Dallas did. Would you
Speaker 2: agree there?
Speaker 1: So yes, I do. But like what you're saying, though,
Speaker 1: is actually why I was higher on Dallas than most
Speaker 1: people were. You know, when we did our like championship
Speaker 1: tier grades. At the deadline, I said I'd bought Dallas
Speaker 1: in the top five. It's exactly that. It's because I
Speaker 1: thought that they had different ways to stop different things,
Speaker 1: right and now against Boston, and Boston is just like
Speaker 1: this whole different beast that they just didn't have the
Speaker 1: answer to this test. But I thought Dallas had more
Speaker 1: answers to the test than most other teams. It's just
Speaker 1: like in Denver's case, right, Like Denver probably I think
Speaker 1: Denver probably beats Dallas for what it's worth, But like
Speaker 1: I think that I do too, answer to the test
Speaker 1: is like just better than everybody else, right, Like on
Speaker 1: some level, it's just that Minnesota is built to stop
Speaker 1: that single thing, right, which is great. The two things
Speaker 1: that stand out to me, you're spacing on offense and
Speaker 1: ground coverage on defense. Having that five out spacing look,
Speaker 1: which you kind of emphasize. I don't really need to
Speaker 1: go into that, you I think broke down perfectly. Ground
Speaker 1: coverage on defense is what Minnesota had. I think it's
Speaker 1: what Boston has. I think it's what Dallas has as well,
Speaker 1: with those lively lineups being able to cut off the
Speaker 1: court and cut off like large swaths of the court
Speaker 1: right now is like, by far the most important thing
Speaker 1: that you can do, even when their guys are getting
Speaker 1: beaten off the bounce in this series, having that ground coverage,
Speaker 1: being able to rotate around is at least giving them
Speaker 1: a chance on some level. But that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I'm at. Ground coverage on defense, long athletes, you know,
Speaker 1: shooting on offense, and a lot of the times it's
Speaker 1: hard to find those two things in a single player package,
Speaker 1: which is what makes things so difficult.
Speaker 2: To your point, if Derek Jones and PJ. Washington were
Speaker 2: good above the break three point shooters, this is a
Speaker 2: totally different series. Like, like they the problem that I
Speaker 2: can't tell you how often I'm seeing on the on
Speaker 2: these when I'm doing my film sessions, because Luca's kind
Speaker 2: of got his defender in jail and he's working downhill.
Speaker 2: The entire above the break line is either empty, yeah,
Speaker 2: or Derek Jones is up there, yeah, or Josh Green
Speaker 2: is up there. But so like, and there's the thing
Speaker 2: they're not. They're making themselves easy to guard because they
Speaker 2: they're not occupying that side of the floor with the threat.
Speaker 1: But here's the piece of that that makes it really hard.
Speaker 1: And this is why building a team is so exceptionally difficult. Right,
Speaker 1: if Derek Jones is a good above the break three
Speaker 1: point shooter, you couldn't have gotten him for the minimum.
Speaker 2: Right, He's a twenty.
Speaker 1: Million dollar player and he's gonna be like a twelve
Speaker 1: million dollar player this year. So like that's what that's
Speaker 1: what makes this really hard if you're a team builder, right,
Speaker 1: if you're a GM like having this is what has
Speaker 1: made Brad Stevens so good his job, right, Like he
Speaker 1: has gone out and paid the price to be able
Speaker 1: to go get the guys that make his scheme, the
Speaker 1: scheme that Boston wants to build so functional.
Speaker 2: Well and again, like anybody could have had those guys,
Speaker 2: and Brad went out and got them, you know today
Speaker 2: his credit Sam, before we get you out of here,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna see you up for a quick monologue.
Speaker 2: What was your takeaway on the Dan Early News this morning?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my takeaway is I was very impressed that
Speaker 1: there were no leaks and that everybody did not know
Speaker 1: the way this was going to go. Like you should
Speaker 1: have seen my text messages. It was hysterical, Like everyone's
Speaker 1: asking me, like what's he gonna do, like, what do
Speaker 1: you think is gonna happen? And I would just be like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. My answer was, I thought fifty five
Speaker 1: forty five he stays at Connecticut. If you would have
Speaker 1: asked me the night that the story broke, I would
Speaker 1: have said, sixty forty goes to the Lakers. And I
Speaker 1: thought that, like, the further along it went, the more
Speaker 1: likely it was that he would say Yukon. But the
Speaker 1: fact that it was that close in that like nobody knew,
Speaker 1: like I talked to I don't want to put this
Speaker 1: person on blast, like one of the premier college basketball
Speaker 1: insiders last night there this morning, your time, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'd say fifty five to forty five, he goes,
Speaker 1: So A was really impressed that like none of this
Speaker 1: got out, because typically it gets out in some way
Speaker 1: shape or for him. B I have no idea why
Speaker 1: the Lakers only offered six seventy If you're going out
Speaker 1: and trying to get Danny Hurley, that's just not a
Speaker 1: good enough offer, point blank. With the way that like
Speaker 1: the coaching market has inflated over the course of the
Speaker 1: last five years, really over the course of the last
Speaker 1: twelve months. At the end of the day, Steve Kurr
Speaker 1: is making seventeen. I think Greg it's just making like
Speaker 1: eighteen or so.
Speaker 2: Bud and Oles is making ten a year.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, right, Like, if you really believe
Speaker 1: in Danny Hurley, you have to go and make it
Speaker 1: so that he's turning down. Like I'm not saying you
Speaker 1: have to offer him like five years one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty or whatever it is, but like you probably have
Speaker 1: to offer him five years eighty. You probably have to
Speaker 1: offer him sixteen a year. You have to give him
Speaker 1: the money Williams offer at least, right. So that leads
Speaker 1: me to my next question, which is how worried were
Speaker 1: they that Danny Hurley was serious maybe and that they
Speaker 1: were inflating their own coaching market potentially by having that
Speaker 1: offer get out there saying you were willing to pay
Speaker 1: six seventy for a guy that you know has never
Speaker 1: won an NBA game. So, you know, let's say it's
Speaker 1: JJ Reddick. I don't know if it's going to be
Speaker 1: JJ Reddick. You know, I'm yeah, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's gonna be JJ Redick.
Speaker 2: I'm hearing brago noise, Are you hearing that too.
Speaker 1: I have heard a lot of different things, to the
Speaker 1: point where my impression has been this entire time that
Speaker 1: there they were undergoing a process, that there was no
Speaker 1: decision that was made, that there was no like yeah,
Speaker 1: like I felt like they were undertaking a process. Was
Speaker 1: the whole thing that there was never never certainty that
Speaker 1: it was going to be Jj, never certainty that it
Speaker 1: was going to be Barrego. Like they were really trying
Speaker 1: to go down the road and explore everything that was
Speaker 1: available to them, and they never made any choices. Now,
Speaker 1: maybe that was it. Maybe they were trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that their market was not so overinflated that, you know,
Speaker 1: they have to pay James Barrego, you know, nine million
Speaker 1: dollars a year now because you offer Danny Hurley eleven
Speaker 1: point six or something. I don't know. I think if
Speaker 1: you're chasing Danny Hurley, you just have to chase them
Speaker 1: and say, like, screw it, we're going balls to the
Speaker 1: wall here and we're trying to get the guy we want.
Speaker 1: And to me, in my opinion, I know, it's twenty
Speaker 1: million dollars more than the Connecticut offer, but six years
Speaker 1: seventy million is not a good enough offer given the
Speaker 1: current market of NBA coaches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Colin had dropped to me last night on the
Speaker 2: show that he had heard a much lower number than
Speaker 2: the one hundred million dollar number that was getting thrown around. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And that was where I started to get a little
Speaker 2: bit worried, because Colin's really connected, obviously in the LA area,
Speaker 2: and I felt the same way. My thing was, like,
Speaker 2: especially like in the grand scheme of the television deal
Speaker 2: that's coming around, in the grand scheme of what your
Speaker 2: luxury tax bill is, what's fifteen million a year for
Speaker 2: a coach that could be a culture setter? Like I
Speaker 2: really struggled with that. I will say that it wouldn't
Speaker 2: have been a perfect fit. I think that asking a
Speaker 2: year twenty two Lebron to be held accountable by someone
Speaker 2: like Danny Hurley would have presented some challenges. I'm sure that,
Speaker 2: but I thought, especially like Dan's ability to create space
Speaker 2: with non shooters on the floor, I thought that would
Speaker 2: have been a wonderful fit with Vanderbilt and Anthony Davis.
Speaker 2: I was so so optimistic about it, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, like I just had this underlying ominous The
Speaker 2: Lakers find a way to botch stuff like this typically
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and that that that tempered any sort
Speaker 2: of of over excitement on my part.
Speaker 1: You know, what I'll say on the Lebron front, though,
Speaker 1: is like everybody around the league will tell you that,
Speaker 1: like if Lebron like really respects the guy who's in
Speaker 1: charge and like really believes in him, he has no
Speaker 1: problem being coached hard, Like he's like totally fine with
Speaker 1: like hey, like I mean, look like he might not
Speaker 1: want Danny Hurley like get in his face and like
Speaker 1: f bombing him, which might have happened at some point.
Speaker 1: Like we just need to be realistic about that. But
Speaker 1: like I think Lebron gets this rap as like a
Speaker 1: coach killer right like throughout his career, and I think
Speaker 1: as long as he respects the guy, and it seems
Speaker 1: like he would have been going into this relationship with
Speaker 1: like a real degree of respect for Danny Hurley, he's
Speaker 1: fine from what I know, like being able to like
Speaker 1: you know take that right like he'll he'll he'll respond
Speaker 1: to that from what I know. So you know, whether
Speaker 1: or not there's another coach out there on the market
Speaker 1: that would be able to coax that out of him,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Necessarily. But you know, I do think
Speaker 1: that is a bit of a misconception about Lebron. Not
Speaker 1: that you're saying that like he was, you know, gonna
Speaker 1: be a problem, but I do think that there's a
Speaker 1: little bit more to Lebron than than what the current
Speaker 1: overarching philosophy is that I get in my Twitter mentions
Speaker 1: every night.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, no, I totally agree. Well, the thing too, is like,
Speaker 2: it's not David Blatt. He's not coming over from Europe.
Speaker 2: There's something right, you know, there's something about like the
Speaker 2: domestic dominance of Yukon that I think would resonate.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Like I had somebody ask me, like,
Speaker 1: why is this different than David Blatt? David Blatt won
Speaker 1: multiple euro League championships. I was like, you think twenty
Speaker 1: eight year old Lebron was watching the EuroLeague like every night.
Speaker 1: He's definitely watching Connecticut, watching the NCAA tournament and seeing
Speaker 1: what that looks like. He's not watching euro League every night.
Speaker 1: He's not staying up until two am in the morning
Speaker 1: to watch like Osville versus Redstone. Are you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? So, yeah, No, it's it's interesting. Look, I mean,
Speaker 1: shout out Danny Hurley saying it Connecticutte, you know, stay
Speaker 1: where you're happy. I'm a big, big proponent. I live
Speaker 1: in Melbourne, Australia, because you know, be worried or happy
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. That's it. So I
Speaker 1: respect Danny Hurley's choice in that respect.
Speaker 2: I'm just sad because I thought he could have turned
Speaker 2: that organization around. All right, that's all we have time
Speaker 2: for today, Sam, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time
Speaker 2: out of your busy schedule to come on. I need
Speaker 2: to call you soon so that we can catch up,
Speaker 2: and then we also need to take more time to
Speaker 2: talk more this summer on the show. I'm sure we'll
Speaker 2: find some time to do that. I'm hoping to see
Speaker 2: you out at Summer League as well. Before we get
Speaker 2: you out of here, can you shout out what you're
Speaker 2: working on on your end?
Speaker 1: So NBA Draft Guide, I wrote far too many works
Speaker 1: for the NBA Draft Guide. It's going to be over
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand words on seventy five draft
Speaker 1: prospects this year. That will be up next week at
Speaker 1: some point over at the Athletic And then go to
Speaker 1: the Game Theory podcast over on YouTube over on whatever
Speaker 1: podcasting platform you use, and you'll be able to kind
Speaker 1: of hang out with us every second night whenever we
Speaker 1: go live.
Speaker 2: That's a perfect excuse to get you back on because
Speaker 2: I don't pay any attention to the draft until after
Speaker 2: the NBA Finals, so maybe we'll get you on at
Speaker 2: that point. All right, guys, that is all we have
Speaker 2: for today. As always, we sincerely I appreciate you guys
Speaker 2: for supporting the show. I will be back to calling
Speaker 2: Coward on Wednesday night after the final buzzer of Game three.
Speaker 2: I will see you guys.
Speaker 1: Thay the volume