1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA f Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: The conversation that I have coming up next with our 4 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: friend doctor Jonathan Metzel is one that I gotta tell you, 5 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: it gets really exhausting having what feels like the same 6 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: conversation over and over again about gun violence in the 7 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: United States, about the pervasiveness of mass shootings. You know, 8 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: over the holiday, the Thanksgiving Holiday, as you know, folks 9 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: are gathered with friends and family and chosen family. You know, 10 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: I use it as a day to really just have gratitude. Right. 11 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: It is not about the founding of this nation, is 12 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: not about the fucking Pilgrims. It is not about the 13 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: mass genocide that was visited upon the indigenous population of 14 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: this country. For me and for my loved ones, it 15 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: is about an opportunity for us to gather together, for 16 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: us to share some food, make some food, eat too much, 17 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: laugh really hard, drink too much, and just enjoy each 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: other's time. This Thanksgiving holiday, like so many that have 19 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: come before it, have been marred by headlines that are 20 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: visited upon us with regard to mass shootings. And the 21 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: fact that around many people's tables, they're loved ones won't 22 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: be sitting, their loved ones, won't be laughing, their loved 23 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: ones won't be arguing about who needs to wash the 24 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: dishes and who needs to set the kids table. No, 25 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: they're dead. They're dead because they decided to, you know, 26 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: go to the grocery store, or go to the movies, 27 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: or you know, go to a queer club to feel 28 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: in community with other queer people, or did you just 29 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: have a good time. They're dead because they decided to 30 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: go to school that day. The arbitrary nature of mass 31 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: shootings in this country, meaning that they can happen anywhere 32 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: and at any time, has us all just living on edge, right, Like, 33 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: there's no better way to say it, you know. Jonathan 34 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: and our conversation, he will talk about the habitualness of 35 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: our practice in terms of moving through these stages of 36 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: grief and rage that we vacillate between on a day 37 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: to day basis, and how it has just become a norm, 38 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: a part of how we exist in this country because 39 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: there's no end to it. You know. Jonathan often talks 40 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: about the fact that liberals and progressives need to reframe 41 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: their message and reframe their messaging. And my thought is 42 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: that it isn't necessary like in this particular instance. You 43 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: know that I talk about messaging a lot when I 44 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: talk about electoral politics. This issue isn't about the messaging. 45 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: It's about who's in power, right, It is about who 46 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: wields the power. Because every sensible person with a brain 47 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: in their head knows that AR fifteens shouldn't be readily 48 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: available to civilians for fucking what, what are you hunting 49 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: that you need an AAR fifteen four? Not a goddamn thing. 50 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: It was a gun that was made for war, right, 51 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: So why does that need to be a part of 52 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: your fucking stockpile? And if it is, you should definitely 53 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: be on somebody's fucking list, right, somebody that's you know, 54 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: is being surveiled as being watched for their potential for 55 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: fucking violence. But we don't do that, right because that 56 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: would be encroaching on people's freedoms freedom to kill as 57 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. 58 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: Every sensible person knows that you should have a waiting period, 59 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: you should have rigorous background checks. There should be an 60 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: age requirement in every fucking state, that is nationalized, that 61 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: you need to go through a series of background checks, 62 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: you need to go through safety training, You need to 63 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: then get re certified every year in order to keep 64 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: right your weapons. If you have any types of infraction, 65 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,679 Speaker 1: whether they be domestic violence, whether it be any type 66 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: of violent incident, that then your guns are taken away. 67 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: You should be in mass databases right that if you 68 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: have a weapon in your home, you should have to 69 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: put up a sticker that says, so you know, one 70 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: of the things that I did see over the Thanksgiving holiday, 71 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: And again, I don't know if this is just something 72 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: that is happening in New York, and I probably believe 73 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: that it is because of a Supreme Court decision that 74 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: overturned New York's ability to ban assault rifles right, which 75 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: had been a hundred year old ban. But you know, 76 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, they don't give a fuck about precedent, 77 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: and they don't give a fuck about American constituents, citizens 78 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: and our safety or anything. They care about power, right, 79 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: they care about owning the libs. But there was a 80 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: commercial that was airing and it was parents, white parents 81 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: dropping their kid off for a play date, and they're 82 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: asking sore heterosexual couple is at the door and another 83 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: white heterosexual couple answers the door, and they say, hey, 84 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, just quick question, is the tiger going to 85 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: be on a leash for the entire time that you 86 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: know Johnny is going to be overplaying? You know, just 87 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: want to make sure that everybody's going to be safe, 88 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: because they are equating in this commercial a you know, lion, 89 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: a non domesticated animal being loose in the home as 90 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: the same thing as having an unlocked gun in the home. 91 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: And it is a commercial about people asking right and 92 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: needing to ask the question do you have a gun 93 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: in your home? And if you do, is the gun 94 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: locked up? Right? Because I don't want my fucking kid 95 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: being dropped off at a place someone's home where they 96 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: have a bunch of guns and guess what, none of 97 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: them are locked up, And so there is access that 98 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: is granted to young kids, which, by the way, according 99 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: to this PSA commercial, gun violence is the number one 100 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: killer of kids now, right, So asking these questions and 101 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: feeling like you have the ability to ask these questions 102 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: as parents are really fucking important. But going back to 103 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: my earlier statements is that everyone knows everyone believes if 104 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: you want to own a gun, own a fucking gun, 105 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: but it should be a normal gun, not a weapon 106 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: of mass destruction. And it should be registered, and you 107 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: should have had to go through safety training, and it 108 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: should be locked up, and it should be registered, and 109 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: you should be of a certain age and having to 110 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: have gone through a series of background checks to make 111 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: sure that you are not a violent person, Like you 112 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: should have to prove those fucking things in order to 113 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: be able to get a gun that can kill someone, right, Like, 114 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: this is not rocket science, but the powers that be, 115 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: the people that are in power, want to make it 116 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: seem as if we're crazy for asking for these things, 117 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: and that it is normal to wake up every morning 118 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: and to see a headline of five people gunned down, 119 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: six people gunned down, nineteen people gunned down, fifty people 120 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: gunned down. That that's just how we should live. That's 121 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the cost of freedom. It doesn't feel very free. So 122 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: coming up next my conversation with our in house doctor, 123 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel, where he will talk about his upcoming 124 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: book book that he used writing about gun violence and 125 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: why it was denied from thirty five publishers. Given this 126 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: great success of his previous book, Dying of Whiteness, and 127 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: what it is that we all need to be doing 128 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: and paying attention to right now. Folks. You know that 129 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: whenever we have the opportunity to speak with our in 130 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzil, we are always pleased, sometimes 131 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: depressed when we finished, But you know, it's important to 132 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: have these conversations. Jonathan. You know I thought about you 133 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: a lot over the Thanksgiving holiday because it seemed like 134 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: there were multiple mass shootings that happened leading up to 135 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: the holiday that happened over the holiday, and it is 136 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: as if I am struggling with the ability to stay 137 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: enraged with headlines that just keep coming. Now what feels 138 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: like just on a regular basis, I think that the 139 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: last stat that I heard, and you correct me if 140 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, which is that we are at what November, 141 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: the end of November, barreling towards the end of the year, 142 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: and we've had in this country over six hundred mass shootings. 143 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: More mass shootings have taken place than have days in 144 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: the calendar year thus far. So I just want to 145 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: get your thoughts on the number of shootings that have 146 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: happened over the last week or so and let what 147 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: do you think is happening? Are we covering it more? 148 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: Are there more shootings? Is it just like par for 149 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: the course? What is happening? Well, you're first year exactly 150 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: right that there has been more than one. If you define, 151 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: as many scholars do, a mass shooting is for or 152 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: victims shot usually strangers. There have been over six hundred 153 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: in the US this year, so quite a bit more 154 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: than one per calendar day. The number I mean, if 155 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: it's just you turn open the news any day and 156 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: they were going to be a couple of mass shootings. 157 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: We didn't used to count mass shootings, used to be 158 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: just the high profile kind of things that we've been seeing. 159 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: Over the past couple of weeks, we started counting all 160 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: the multiple victim shootings, which we should have been doing 161 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: from the beginning, and it turned out that there are 162 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: a lot of multiple victim shootings that don't make it 163 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: to the news because they're like in urban areas and 164 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: stuff like that. And so when you start adding it up, 165 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: the toll is not just the carnage that we see 166 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: in suburbia, which is horrible and in places where it's arresting, 167 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: but there's also a toll in I mean, really, the 168 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: true toll of mass shootings are the ones that don't 169 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: make it to the news, right, The true toll of 170 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: mass shootings and gun violence happened in like inner cities 171 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And I think for me, 172 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, when you start adding up just the overall 173 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: toll on an aggregate, it's it's breathtaking. It's really breathtaking. Yeah, 174 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: as you know, I'm kind of in the middle of this, 175 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: and so, like many gun scholars, I spent a good 176 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: part of my Thanksgiving going on the news and trying 177 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: to explain. For the US news, it was kind of 178 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: trying to give perspective. And the minute the minute we started, 179 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: the minute we started getting some perspective about about the 180 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: Colorado shooting, then there was the Walmart shooting, on and on, 181 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: and so it's kind of like, where are we going? 182 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: What's the plan here? And it just feels like there's 183 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: so much anger and anguish and as you're right, you're 184 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: right that the next day there's going to be another headline. 185 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: And even the Colorado shooting, which even five years ago 186 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: would have been a national headline for months, was replaced 187 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: by another mass shooting the very next day. And so 188 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: the level of helplessness about this issue is just so frustrating. 189 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna shatter the record that this year, 190 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: I think for gun deaths in a year, which was 191 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: about forty two thousand. Looks like we're on pace for 192 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: more than that. And it just becomes habituated in a way. 193 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: And so I don't know. For me, I care about 194 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: the mass shootings, which is what everybody hears about, but 195 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: I also care just about the role of guns in 196 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: everyday life. And there was an article in the Washington 197 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: Post about guns showing up at protests and what does 198 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: that say for just the potential for violence, not just 199 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: the shootings we see, but whatever civic discourse we have left. 200 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: And so it's a it's a problem that's only getting worse. 201 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: And on the other hand, I'll just say, and excuse 202 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: me for going on long about this. Yeah, but the 203 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: book I'm writing now is about mass shootings in America 204 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: and looking at race and mass shootings. And not to 205 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: do any sour grapes, but my last book won a 206 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: bunch of awards. It's sold quite more than one hundred 207 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: thousand copies. It did very well, and I couldn't find 208 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: a publisher for my book about mass shootings, because every 209 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: single publisher I went to. Now I have a home, thankfully, 210 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: but every publisher I went to told me there's no 211 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: market for gun books because nobody wants to think about this. 212 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: And I'm about to prove them wrong the book I'm 213 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: writing now. But I you know, I don't know. I 214 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: wrote Dying of Whiteness. It won all these awards, and 215 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: then I had like thirty five rejections in a row 216 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: when I wanted to write a book about guns. And 217 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: so it's just like people feel like, oh, everybody's tuned 218 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: out about it, and that's you know, to me, I 219 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: don't believe that, But that's kind of the world written. 220 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: What is next? I mean, that's kind of that's really 221 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: shocking to me, the response from publishers that nobody's interested 222 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: in it when it is something that has permeated did 223 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: our everyday existence. There's not a day that goes by 224 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: that we aren't inundated with gun violence. And so was 225 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: that like just the blanket response or that they don't 226 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: want to touch it for whatever other political reasons. They've 227 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: tried selling gun books in the past and they just 228 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: don't sell because half the country won't buy them because 229 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: they think that it's like liberal take your gun book, 230 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: and so Republicans automatically won't buy it by the framing 231 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: of other gun books, and then they think liberals already 232 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: feel like they know everything they know about it and 233 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: they don't need to learn anymore. And so you're kind 234 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: of killing the audience before you get in there. You 235 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: know me, I'm a complicated person, and I'm like, I'm 236 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: about to overturn that. But even now, it's like a 237 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: daily fight just to explain why I think it's important. 238 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: I keep saying, like this is a story on the 239 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: front page of the newspaper every single day or every day. 240 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: You just have to tap into the complexity of it, 241 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: not tell people what they think they already know. And 242 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: so I'm hoping I'm writing one that's a bit more challenging, 243 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: but we'll have to see. I mean, if nothing else, 244 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: you and I will be talking about you know, I'll 245 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: be happy to talk about it, yea. You know, one 246 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: of the things that I do want to touch upon 247 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: in this conversation again, and I you know, obviously at 248 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: the core the issue is access to guns, right, Like 249 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: we know that that that's the problem. There are too 250 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: many guns in America. Access to guns, it's just way 251 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: too easy to get one, so on and so forth. However, 252 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: with the past several shootings that we have talked about, 253 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: that you and I have talked about on Woke Gay 254 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: app from Buffalo. It was a white supremacist with a 255 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: map with a manifesto in in Colorado. It is anti 256 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: gay rhetoric. And you know, unfortunately we heard from or 257 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: as people made this man viral, the father of the shooter, 258 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: who was more concerned with his son not being gay 259 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: than it was that he committed an act of absolute 260 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: depraved violence, killing several people at that club. Then you have, 261 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, threats of anti Semitic violence, and so on 262 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: and so forth. It seems to me, Jonathan, that the 263 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: last several high profile shootings, the ones again that we 264 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: see on the headlines that are gracing the cable news segments, 265 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: are ones that are spawning from hate. They're not just 266 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: your quote unquote average every day domestic dispute, your average 267 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: every day you know, gang territory or things of that nature. 268 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: These are actually spawning from hate of particular groups. At 269 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: a time when political violence and anti gay anti Black, 270 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: anti Jewish, all of these things are at an all 271 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: time high. Can you talk about that and the root 272 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: the causation right outside of the access to guns being 273 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: prevalent in this country unlike anywhere else in the world, 274 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: talk about the root that the patterns that we are 275 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: seeing in terms of the who are the victims and 276 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: who are the perpetrators of this gun violence? Well, I 277 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: would say one important point to note is that is 278 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: that just the very first part of your question, there 279 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: are many more everyday shootings. Right. So the finding we've 280 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: had in public health for the past forty years is 281 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: the more guns, the more shootings. It's probably one of 282 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: the most contested findings in the history of America because 283 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: that everybody then said, oh, there are anti guy and 284 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. But so we just have 285 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: a lot of guns in households, and so the first 286 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: part of your question is there are a lot of 287 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: shootings we don't hear about, right. Those are the ones 288 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: that are the partner shootings and guns suicides and accidental shootings. 289 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: There's a lot more of all of that. We're just 290 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: not hearing about it right now. And so it's important 291 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: to note that what we're seeing is a very particular 292 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: sample bias in a particular way of much bigger category 293 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: of gun violence. Now that being said, it does seem 294 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: to me like when you add guns to any situation, 295 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: you're providing an outlet for the kind of hate that's 296 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: being validated right now. And so there is, of course, 297 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: as we talked about last week, a real validation for 298 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: anti gay hate, anti trans hate, anti semitism, and guns 299 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: become almost a character in those narratives of I have 300 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: this intense emotion, it's being validated by society, and here's 301 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: a tool that's going to let me happen address that. 302 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: And then people who used to be what we would 303 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: call like the most on the fringe, but now I 304 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: don't know. We've got Mike Lindel running for them, Speaker 305 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: of the House, m and outhkeepers stockpiling weapons for you know, 306 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: for January six and all the kind of stuff. So 307 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: what is the fringe? The fringe is kind of moving 308 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: like algae toward the middle right now, yea and so 309 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: and so. But but again, when you add guns to 310 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: this mix, you're providing an outlet for this kind of extremism. 311 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: You know, I what I struggle with and it's really 312 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: you know what I am struggling with and I and 313 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: I said this at the top, is the ability to 314 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: sustain outrage? Is the ability to sustain grief? Right, um, 315 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 1: Because at this point it's just so rampant that you'll 316 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: if you think about these things on a regular basis 317 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: in the way that we do, you won't want to 318 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: leave your house. And So when you're writing this book 319 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: right now, Jonathan, what is the emotion that you are 320 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: looking to conjure in the reader. Is it one that 321 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: is just informative, this is what you need to understand 322 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: in a historical context and how we got to where 323 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 1: we are, or is it like this feeling of rage, 324 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: of anger, or of grief and sadness about where we 325 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: are in terms of our gun predicament. So my title 326 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: for the book, which is now being rejected by the publisher, 327 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: this is sour Grape, say I apologize? Is how We Lost? 328 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: That was the working title of the book, and it's 329 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: kind of a story of how a miracle lost the 330 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: gun debate. They think that nobody's going to buy a 331 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: book with lost in the title because it's too much 332 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: of a downer. And I'm like, the whole topic is 333 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: a downer. So I'm trying to tell people, like how 334 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: we got to this point, which is in part a 335 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: story about conservative America, but it's also a story about 336 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: a liberal America. And they want to change the title 337 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: to like, you know, a doctor at the front lines 338 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: of Yak a yak, yak yak, And I'm like, man, nobody, 339 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: let's tap into the emotion that people are having right now. 340 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: And so I'm just trying to explain how we got here, honestly, 341 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: and I think people will be surprised to know it's 342 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: not just an in our a story, it's also missteps 343 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: by liberal America. Liberal America is has for the past 344 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: forty years. What I argue in the book, it's put 345 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: its faith in public health, which is what we do now, 346 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: which is that we only have a narrative after the shooting. 347 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: We don't go further upstream to talk about the judges 348 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: and the political system and the rigged elections. We have 349 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: no strategy for that when it came to guns for decades, 350 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: and we're paying the price for it now. And so 351 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to kind of tell a story that is 352 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: also about liberal America understanding how we got here and 353 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: it'll probably by the time it comes out, be titled 354 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: like Sunny Paris and Springtime or something like that. For 355 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: anybody out there, Man, don't write a book. It ruins 356 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: your life. But I would say that I would say 357 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: that that's the story I'm trying to tell, is liberal 358 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: America understand Like how the hell we got here? Which 359 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: is the kind of the story that I try to tell, 360 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: that the answer was in front of us all along. 361 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 1: We just we got into this pattern of mass shooting, 362 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: then calling for public health based gun reform, then nothing happens, 363 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: Rince repeat. That's kind of the story of the book. 364 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: And and and so it really is a book about 365 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: liberal America needing to change its tactics and when it 366 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: comes to guns, to understand the upstream politics of judges 367 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and capital and all these other factors. And so I 368 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: think how we lost to me as a catchy title, 369 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: but it'll probably be like Puppies in your Bed? Yeah, 370 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: and can we can we win? Yeah? You know, because 371 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that I have 372 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: realized that I've noticed, I should say not realized, that 373 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: I've noticed over the last um last several shootings is 374 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: that doctors are going on to talk about gun violence 375 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: in the United States as a public health crisis in 376 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: the way that we frame the pandemic, in the way 377 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: that we have framed other issues. And I wonder, is 378 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: that Jonathan just too little, too late, or it does 379 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: does that conversation in and of itself how we understand 380 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: public health which again now with COVID and republic and 381 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: because of Republicans and their apprehension of you know, wanting 382 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: to have their constituent live um, public health has become 383 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: something that is highly politicized. So does it even help 384 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: or does it continue to hurt this issue get the 385 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: kind attraction that it needs by couching it in this way. 386 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: It's it's it's great as a fifth tier strategy, it's 387 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: ridiculous as a political strategy. I mean, I know there's 388 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people like me who spent our careers 389 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: focusing on it. But I think we have to admit 390 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: that what we're doing is not working. And so I 391 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: think it's a horrible political strategy. Um, you know, we 392 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: need to we need to reboot the whole thing. So 393 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: that's my sense. But is it but is it a 394 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: horrible strategy? Because like, here's the thing, because this is 395 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: the reality, Jonathan. It's not working because the people that 396 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: are in power don't want it to work. Exactly right, 397 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: it's not it's not because how the how it's and 398 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: this is this is I think where where I end 399 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: up wanting to throw my hands up. And I'm grateful 400 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: for the fact of people like yourself that don't throw 401 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: their hands up, that keep trying to find different ways, 402 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: different avenues, different footholds to kind of get in. But 403 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: it's it isn't about so much the framing around gun 404 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: violence as is that everyone knows that you shouldn't be 405 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: able to access in AAR fifteen. Everyone knows that, like 406 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: you should have longer waiting periods and background checks and 407 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: all of these laws that are in place to make 408 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: accessing guns safe. Like we know all of this, but 409 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: the people that are in power don't care. And so 410 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: is it that you just need to frame the villains 411 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: for who the villains are instead of trying to convince 412 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: people of what they already know, which is that these 413 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: are weapons of mass destruction. They cause so much harm. 414 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: They have us living on edge and fear for our lives, 415 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: going to the grocery store, going to school, basically disrupting 416 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: our ability to have and live normal lives. And so 417 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: is it just that we need to frame the conversation 418 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: around the villains, because no, the logic that we're offering 419 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: isn't going to permeate people that are choosing to be 420 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: willfully ignorant. Well, my argument, and we'll see if it 421 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: works in my argument in my forthcoming book, Puppies in 422 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the Springtime, is that is that public health provides a framework, 423 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: a moral framework. It provides a framework of common sense, 424 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: but it doesn't provide a framework of power. Right, And 425 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: so you said it exactly in your question, which is 426 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: which is that all of the common sense in the 427 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: world will not impact the law if you don't also 428 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: have a strategy for power, which means figuring out how 429 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: to win elections and seek judges. And public health doesn't 430 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: bring any of that. And so part of kind of 431 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: what I'm going to argue is you also need a 432 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: theory of power, because the other side has a very 433 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: developed theory of power. And so we're arguing in a 434 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: way you're you're doing framing a resistance movement. Um but 435 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: um but and you know, we'll see, we'll see where 436 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: this goes. I mean, I've got four hundred pages to 437 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: make this claim, but I would just say that without 438 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: attention to like how you win elections or how you 439 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: see judges, or how you raise funds or how you 440 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: bring in donors beyond Mike Bloomberg, you're always going to 441 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: be protesting because the other side has a very developed 442 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: theory of power, which is very good at suppressing the 443 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: will of the people. And so we're always in this 444 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: position of like protesting against mass shootings when really we're 445 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: not going farther upstream. That's my personal feeling. And we'll 446 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: see how how it goes, and so um in my 447 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: forthcoming book I Love Balloons, I will just be saying 448 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: that that, you know, we'll see how it goes. But 449 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: I just think it's time to start thinking hard about 450 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: like how we how we reboot this. Maybe you should 451 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: just change the title of the book to power and 452 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: then have your subtitle, because if that's what, if that's 453 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: what it's about, that's a different conversation. It isn't about 454 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: talking specifically about gun control and legislation, and it's about 455 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: it's a conversation around power, who has it and who doesn't, 456 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: which times into race and everything and all and all 457 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: of and all of those things. UM, last question for you, 458 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: Jonathan on this uh for for today? UH is you know, 459 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: for people who are feeling increasingly powerless, UM, who are 460 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: waking up every day and are exhausted by the headlines, 461 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: are just they're exhausted by their grief. They're exhausted by 462 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: this sadness. Like what do you offer to those people? 463 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: What do you offer to your students that come in 464 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: and they're just like so again, like we're doing this again. 465 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: You know, there's a shooting on a Monday, there's a 466 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: shooting on a Friday. I don't even know which hashtag 467 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm using because you know, to to air my grievances 468 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: because I can't keep pace with the violence that's happening. Well, 469 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean there is, there are. I mean, it's it's 470 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: so hard rate because we're doing what people in war 471 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: zones do, which is we habituate trauma in order to 472 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: move on with our lives. So we're doing what we 473 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: do what people with war zone people do, and that's 474 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: really a human defense mechanism that people who are faced 475 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: with this kind of situation that we're faced with now. 476 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: But but it's important it also that it's not the 477 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: same for everybody that I'm on Vanderbilt's campus here in 478 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: New York. If you're living in South Chicago right now, 479 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: your risk is just considerably higher than any location that 480 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: we're in. And so I just personally feel like I 481 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: just personally feel like nobody's safe until everybody is safe. 482 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: And I think we really need to mobilize to build 483 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: a really broad based coalition that brings together everybody who's 484 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: at risk of gunfire and not have it be just 485 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: after mass shootings in places that we can and recognize, 486 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: which are horrible and horrible, horrible, horrible, But until we 487 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: build this broad movement that treats every gun violence victim 488 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: the same, I just think there's power in the numbers 489 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: we have, we just don't use them. Yeah, well, we'll 490 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,239 Speaker 1: leave it there for today. Doctor Jonathan Metzel, thank you 491 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: as always for bringing perspective and your time and analysis 492 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 1: to woke F And one of these days we're going 493 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: to talk about a cheerful topic. I don't know what 494 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: day that's going to because we've been doing this for 495 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: three unclear, but you know, here's open. Yeah, all right, 496 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: Hi guys, thank you. That is it. For me today, 497 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: Dear friends on Woke f as always, power to the 498 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, get woke and 499 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.