1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is no They call 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: Alexis Tombstone Jackson. That's that's a nickname we're all quite 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: taken with today, but it may change in the future. 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: Let us know your suggestions. Most importantly, you are you. 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: want you to know in a way. This is our 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: recurring listener mail segment that we're doing every week. As 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: we are recording this, it is July Teve. This is 14 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: the part of the show where we put our money 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: where our mouth is. From the very early days of YouTube, 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: Matt and I always said and emphasize that you, specifically 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: you are the best part of this show. So let's 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: put some action behind that idea. Here we go. We're 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: going to hear from you, specifically you. Hey, guys, I 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to call up. I don't know if you 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: guys have seen or read or heard about all the 22 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: rumors of instituting martial law during this coronavirus outbreak, the 23 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. I just want to say, is somebody who 24 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: used to work logistics in the army that the military 25 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: as a whole does not have the manpower to actually 26 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: institute a nationwide martial law. The fact that it's spreading 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: around is is very disturbing, honestly. And in cases where 28 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: the National Guard or the Army need to be activated, 29 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: or any other branch for that matter, you need to 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: be activated to set up you know, mobile hospitals or 31 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: help to distribute food or provide any other relief work, 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: they might run into situations where, you know, local populations 33 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: who are misinformed about why they're there might try to 34 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: fight off the people trying to come and help them, 35 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: or um, yeah, maybe I'm completely misinformed. I don't know. 36 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: You guys, You guys, keep up the good work. Take 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: care guys. Wow, Okay, well, thank you for calling in. 38 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: First of all, I want to say that this call 39 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: came in in April of this year, so several months ago, 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: when there were a lot of rumors floating around social 41 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: media and the internet at large about martial law being 42 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: in stated due to the quarantine that was in place, 43 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: the kind of not initial but the early quarantine in 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: responses to the coronavirus and COVID nineteen and the outbreak. 45 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: So you you have to kind of put everything that 46 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: was just stated in that context, and in that context 47 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: you can imagine how I think we even spoke about 48 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: it a few times in our episodes on coronavirus. How 49 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: there it feels like there's this potential with all of 50 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: this because it was feeling so unprecedented at the time 51 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: to be in a quarantine, especially in the United States, 52 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: or at least within the United States. Uh, it felt 53 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: like something that it never happened, and it felt so different. 54 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: The economy was in a pretty steep decline. There was 55 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: so much uncertainty I think early on, especially then in April, 56 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: that there was a general sense that perhaps the military 57 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: or someone will need to come through and do some 58 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: kind of damage control by way of security forces. But 59 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: it also felt like that would be something that would 60 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: not be welcomed or we would be excited at all about. Well, 61 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: not only that, though, callers implying that it wouldn't be 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: feasible based on the powers of the presidency perhaps or 63 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: also just on the logistics of getting this done in 64 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: a wide scale thing. And it's interesting because until you 65 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: said the context of this timing wise, Matt I assumed 66 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: the caller was referring to exactly what we're seeing happening 67 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: right now in UM Portland, Oregon, and has been promised 68 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: to happen soon in places like Chicago, UH and Albuquerque. Well, 69 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: there was another place that was listed as as a 70 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: potential site for where the administration wanted to send some 71 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: of these federal UH forces in order to what they're 72 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: they're calling it UM tamped down widespread criminality and reintroduced 73 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: the quote unquote rule of law. No I see exactly 74 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: what you're saying, Noel, because I think it's a perfect 75 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: way to talk about it right now. Looking at some 76 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: of the video that's coming out of Portland right now, 77 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: where there are federal agents out there operating in in 78 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: place of you know, the Portland Police Department or some 79 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: other local force, even the National Guard. That's not what 80 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: we're looking at here in Portland's right now, in what 81 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: is it the end of July, We're looking at border 82 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: patrol agents at least that maybe would use the word 83 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: allegedly who was out there, because that's the way it's 84 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: been discussed, you know, by by the federal government, by 85 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: the administration, that these would be the officers going out 86 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: there or the I guess not off the soldiers that 87 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 1: are being deployed there with the explicit purpose to protect 88 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: federal buildings. It's just very odd because it comes a 89 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: week after, like all of this right now we're talking 90 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: about it, a week after there were reports of soldiers 91 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: as eventually or unmarked officers of some sort or another 92 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: in camouflage taking protesters into unmarked vehicles and carding them 93 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: away somewhere. And you know, when you're discussing fears of 94 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: martial law, that type of action abducting a civilian essentially 95 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: without knowing what's occurring to that citizen, either by that 96 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: citizen or their their friends or family or surrounding people, 97 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: just not knowing what's going to happen to them after 98 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: they being abducted. That is nightmare scenario territory, at least 99 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: for me. So I appreciate this call immensely, and I 100 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: believe for fellow listeners, one thing that is important for 101 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: us to do whenever we talk about martial law is 102 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: to define it and bust some myths that are widely 103 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: propagated both online and in print and terrestrial journalism. First 104 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: things first, the imposition of martial lawtems, so that's on 105 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: previous episodes for years. The imposition of martial law is 106 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: the idea that military forces will take over the authority 107 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: and functions of civilian government. This is not unique to 108 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: the US. This has happened in many of other countries. Pakasa, Thailand. 109 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: Our pals over at House of Works have a great 110 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: article on this. But martial law has never in the 111 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: history of the US been imposed on a nationwide basis, 112 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: and your point caller, part of that is a hard 113 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: constraint on people power and on resources. Martial law is 114 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: technically allowed by the US Constitution, but most constitutional experts 115 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: say that federal law will bar the military from seizing 116 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: authority over any area inside US borders except for extreme instances. 117 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: And this is what has a lot of people worried, 118 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: because extreme instances include something like a rebellion against federal 119 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: rule or a situation in which local and state rule 120 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: breaks down, meaning your municipal or citywide government is unable 121 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: to uphold rule of law. Scary times. But what's what's 122 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: important here is that people who are worried about the 123 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: frankly the fascist tactic of federal agents without accountability detaining 124 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: people in unmarked fans. But part of the worry here 125 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: is the idea that the current government at a federal 126 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: level could be creating the problem that they later purport 127 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: to solve by pushing an existing situation into becoming a 128 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: situation where the federal government can say with a straight face, 129 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: there is a rebellion, right to your point, Matt, about 130 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: federal agents officially being there just to protect federal building. 131 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Uh So, I think there are a lot of misconceptions. 132 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: Martial law has happened here in regions, in cities, you 133 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: know what I mean, And it's not to your point, Well, 134 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: it's not always situation where there are a bunch of 135 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: stormtroopers mowing down women and children. They're hospitals, right, There 136 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: are other municipal services that martial law can do. But 137 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,359 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, for anyone who feels like this is politically divisive, 138 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: you might be intrigued to note that among the people 139 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: saying it's against American law to have martial law are 140 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: people like Dove Zach him who is the former under 141 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense under way for it, George W. Bush. So, 142 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: people on both sides of the aisle, you know, when 143 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: you look at the facts, they're very, very against the 144 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: idea of nationwide martial law. Part of it is because 145 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: it's a terrible indicator of a political situation domestically, and 146 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: another part is, as you said, a resource question. Well, 147 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: it's also something like we're used to seeing national guard 148 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: come in when people need help, like say a natural 149 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: disaster like you know, Hurricane Katrina, or the idea of 150 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: sending in the troops or you know, doctors or makeshift 151 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: medical care facilities to help people who are desperately in need. 152 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: It's a hard sell to say that that's what's going 153 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: on right now. Um, it feels like a bit more 154 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: of a stretch to say, Okay, people need help, therefore 155 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: we're sending in you know, these unidentified troops and militaristic 156 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: type forces to quote unquote help people by shoving them 157 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: into vans um and even you know, we we've seen 158 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: examples during a lot of these protests where there are 159 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: folks out there supplying free water and medical care for 160 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: folks that are out there protesting and seeing some of 161 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: these military forces actually trashing said set ups. You know 162 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: that there have been lots of video circulating, and I 163 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: mean it's you know, many of these certainly could be 164 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: looked at his isolated incidents, but I saw a very 165 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: shocking one where some of these riot police and National 166 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: Guard type folks were absolutely stomping all over bottled waters 167 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: and medical um packets and and you know, just trashing 168 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: these tents that folks who were peacefully sitting there were 169 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: there to help people if they needed medical attention. So 170 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: seems like what we're seeing is kind of the opposite 171 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: of what this was intended for. But that's just you know, 172 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: to my eyes. Well, you know, in this specific case 173 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: that we're discussing in Portland right now in July, the 174 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: explicit purpose of the deployment of those Border Patrol agents 175 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: that are there in the city is to protect that 176 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: Federal courthouse, which is at the center one of the 177 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: main areas where the demonstrations are occurring, right, And it 178 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: is it is not to aid. It is to provide 179 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 1: security forces with a militarized group, right, A militarized team 180 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: essentially your teams, And it is a appears to be 181 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: a response, as Ben you're saying, to the protesting that 182 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: is occurring on a nationwide scale. We're recording this on Monday, July, 183 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: and as of last Thursday, the administration that sitting executive 184 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: stated that there were seventy five thousand federal officers that 185 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: were ready to go. And the quote here from the 186 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: Guardian is we'll go into all of the cities, any 187 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: of the cities we're ready. So there's an interesting point here. 188 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: I want to rely heavily on facts in these kind 189 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: of conversations because there are a lot of people who 190 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: are scared, rightly terrified. So the Posse Commentatus Act, and 191 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: you've mentioned on previous episodes, long time listeners, this will 192 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: be familiar to you as a statue in the US 193 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: from eight and Long Story Short or t l d 194 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: R as we said and read it. It in most 195 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: instances bars military forces from being used in law enforcement activities. 196 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: One thing that's very important here is that legally speaking, 197 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: the UH i'll just call them stormtroopers for funzies. UH, 198 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: the federal forces that are involved in these protests and 199 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: uprising now are not themselves military because Posse commentatas means 200 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: that the US military. They can't be a police force. 201 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: It's something that a bunch of people of the US 202 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: like wrote down and agreed on, and that's been the 203 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: case since eight seventy eight. So you have to be 204 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: careful when people from various spheres are arguing that there 205 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: is an army happening there. There is militarization a police 206 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: and that's been going on for a long long time. 207 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: And then there's also this idea of the role that 208 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: the National Guard plays, which I think you make a 209 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: very good point with. This means that many of the 210 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: people who are talking about the idea of nationwide martial 211 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: law at the same time, you know, when people are 212 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: worried about FEMA taking over or worried about jade Helm. 213 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: This hinges on a misconception. But as I mentioned in 214 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: previous episodes, the problem with rule of law is that 215 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: if the people in power the well, i'd like to say, 216 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: people responsible to the public, that's really what they are. 217 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: If the people responsible to the public are not obeying 218 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: the laws, then those are rules for a game that 219 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: we're no longer playing. So I don't know, there's so 220 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: much misinformation. Martial awends up being a thought terminating cliche 221 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: because a lot of people who talk about it don't 222 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: understand what the real life deployment of it is. Of course, 223 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: this just applies to the US. If you are listening 224 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: in another country, your individual mileage may vary. So we're 225 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: definitely going to, you know, continue to keep our eye 226 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: on this. We would just urge, as you were saying, Ben, 227 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: caution when you're reading a social media post about this, 228 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: or even as we're reading here from The Guardian, if 229 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: you're reading any reporting on this, just be cautious that 230 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: someone isn't trying to make you feel one way or 231 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: another about it, and stick hard to the facts. But 232 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: when you see federal agents, you know, in your city, 233 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: let us know and let us know what they're doing. 234 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: I guess because I think we would probably trust something 235 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: coming from you more than we would from the New 236 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: York Times or any other publication. So please call us 237 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: right to us, find us on social media, tell us 238 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: what's going on in your neck of the woods. And 239 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: with that, we're going to take a quick word from 240 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back our next listener mail I 241 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: pulled from a caller by the name of Victoria, who 242 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: has some questions about the origin of a very peculiar 243 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: type of of hygiene ritual. Hi, um, I just finished 244 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: listening to your episode on the nuclear incident UM that 245 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: was released I think in May so, just a little 246 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: under a month ago. Yes, the Santas Susannah Field Experiment 247 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: cover up is the name of the episode, and it 248 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: just reminded me of the silk would issue um. And 249 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: I just wasn't sure if you guys had done an 250 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: episode on that, so I was wondering if you haven't, 251 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: if you'd be interested. Um. I mean everybody knows the 252 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: like something grows, happens to you or you know whatever, 253 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: and you say, oh, I need to take a silk 254 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: would shower, and I think a lot of people would 255 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: be interested to know the origin of that. Anyway. Oh 256 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: my name is Victoria. Thanks bye. You know, Um, I 257 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: was not personally familiar with this term, uh, nor was 258 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: I particularly familiar with the story behind the term, which 259 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into a little bit. But Ben and 260 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: Matt you sort of hit me the fact that either 261 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: you two or possibly me and I have just completely 262 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: uh spaced it out of my memory. Have in fact 263 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: discussed the story of Karen Silkwood, who was a laboratory 264 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 1: analyst at a very important plutonium plant in the nineteen 265 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: seventies in Oklahoma. Ms. Silkwood was a pretty well known 266 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: whistleblower who had some real issues with some of the 267 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: safety measures that were in place at this uh this 268 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: particular lab that was known as the kur McGee Corporation's 269 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: Oil and Nuclear Complex in Oklahoma City and as Silkwood 270 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: died under mysterious circumstances when her Honda hatchback ran off 271 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: the road um and into a ravine while she was 272 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: on her way to do a very whistleblowery type interview 273 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: with a reporter for The New York Times. Guys, did 274 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: we do a full episode on on the Silkwood incident 275 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: or was it something we just may be discussed in 276 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: relation to some other whistle blow or type cases. Well, 277 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, actually, looking back through we have not, at 278 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: least to my knowledge, fully covered Karen Silkwood. But I 279 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: know we have researched it, and we've discussed it before. 280 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: We've had people right into us previously to ask us 281 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: to make this story. But I think it's gonna be 282 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: worth our time. There is a movie called Silkwood by 283 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: the way that you can watch from three if anyone 284 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: is interested to get more info through your eyes and years, 285 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: I guess rather than do it a bunch of reading 286 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: starring share as well. By the way, Yeah, it's true. Um. 287 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: Karen Silkwood story is really interesting because she kind of 288 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: changed her life because of her belief in nuclear energy. 289 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: In the early seventies, she she was a homemaker, housewife 290 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: is with This article in Rolling Stone describes her as 291 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy seven Karen Silkwood The Case of the 292 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: Activist Death by Howard Cone. You can find that on 293 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: the Archives. Really great read. She divorced her husband, moved 294 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: to Oklahoma City, and I really wanted to get a 295 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: job at this Kerr McGhee Corporation facility because this was 296 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: a company that was on the cutting edge of using 297 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: plutonium um for nuclear reactions to create you know power. 298 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: This is a big deal at the time, and it 299 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: was like, you know, referred to as like the Age 300 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: of Adam And it was later then when we're talking 301 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: about with the Santa Susanna um lab and all of that, 302 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: but this was definitely like they had been using uranium. 303 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: But Kerr McGee Corporation was on the cutting edge of 304 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: making that move towards plutonium um because it was more 305 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: efficient even though it was also more dangerous than uranium 306 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: and also more rare and valuable. And there's a whole 307 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff wrapped up in this company. Robert Kerr, 308 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: who was the founder, was actually the governor of Oklahoma 309 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: and he ran for a president as a Democrat in 310 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two UM and you know, it was one 311 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: of the most powerful human beings in the Senate at 312 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: the time of his death. But essentially silk wa It 313 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: got the job because of her belief in this technology 314 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: and very quickly became kind of an outspoken advocate of 315 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: safety and had some real problems with some of the 316 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: conditions in this facility and was very outspoken about it, 317 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: and was invited to join the Oil, Chemical and Atomic 318 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: Workers International Union, uh, the steering committee. She actually was 319 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: elected and was asked to work undercover, so she would, 320 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, work late hours in this lab and using 321 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: those uh those things that you see in movies a 322 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: lot where it's the gloves that go inside the box, 323 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: and that's how they would make these pellets of uranium 324 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: uh sorry, plutonium ra that would go into the rods 325 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: and she would monitor her own levels of radiation and 326 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: UM monitor the amounts of radiation that she would receive 327 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: based on different conditions. And there's a lot more to 328 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: it than that. But the point is she believed that 329 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: she was actually targeted UM because of her outspokenness and 330 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: her kind of you know, being a bit of a 331 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: pill as far as management was concerned in raising some 332 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: of these alarms UM. And she believed that she was 333 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: purposefully contaminated with radiation UM and and there's a lot 334 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: more to the story. Again, the film is A is 335 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: a great place to start, and I do think we 336 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: should go into a deeper tive on this topic. But 337 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: the idea of a silk wood shower, uh is sort 338 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: of a term that has carried on as a result 339 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: of this. It's this idea of a shower that, you 340 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, really long, hot shower to decontaminate yourself from 341 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: like being at a party where everyone's smoking cigarettes or 342 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: a camp fire, or like really smelly foods or something. 343 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: And it's just I wasn't aware of the term. It's 344 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,239 Speaker 1: interesting how uh. This is kind of the thing that 345 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: the caller remembered as opposed to the story itself. You know, Victoria, 346 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: I greatly appreciate this call. And one of my one 347 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: of my favorite quotes from what you told us and 348 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: your fellow conspiracy realist is when you said everyone's heard 349 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: the term silk would shower. I think a lot of 350 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: people may have not heard that term. Was it familiar 351 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: to you, guys, Matt and nol No, I've never heard it. 352 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: I believe I've heard it in passing, but I was 353 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: unsure and I was never sure if it was referring 354 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: to the death. Essentially how she was found in her 355 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: vehicle and it looked to have been a car accident 356 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: basically brought on by being drowsy from coludes and cannabis, 357 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: and I thought maybe that was the reference. But yeah, 358 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: it makes way more sense in when he goes back 359 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: to what she was, what she realized, what was happening, 360 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: and the need to get clean or to feel clean. 361 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: The whole scenario there of how she died is I 362 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: think maybe worth our attention and some time. That's right. 363 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: There's a whole thing with the autopsy and finding the 364 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: levels of radiation that were a present in her blood 365 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: when she was examined, but also there was even a 366 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: former police officer by the name of Ao pipkin Um 367 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: who was a former cop from Albuquerque who now at 368 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: this time specialized in motor vehicle accidents. And he analyzed 369 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: the scene independently and decided that there was a fresh 370 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: ding on the rear bumper of of Silk Woods Honda. 371 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 1: UM that was inconsistent with the report that indicated that 372 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: she had just fallen asleep and drifted off the road. Um. 373 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: He thought it was more like a hit and run, Uh, 374 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: that could have been premeditated. Um. And again she she 375 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: was on the way to an interview with a New 376 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: York Times reporter to share a dossier that she had 377 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: been assembling about you know, all all of these uh, 378 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: these conditions that she felt were unsafe and and beyond 379 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: there is evidence that that material was uh somehow kind 380 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: of missing from the scene once the vehicle was impounded. Yeah. 381 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: And there's another note here that she received threatening phone 382 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: calls just before she was evolved in that accident. So 383 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: I don't know there. There's definitely some stuff going on 384 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 1: here that's gonna be worth our time. Oh and by 385 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: the way, there's a previous take of this, uh conversation 386 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: that you're hearing right now where I was talking about 387 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: the China Syndrome movie. Uh, I believe from the eighties, 388 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: and I just want to point out I wasn't incorrect. No, 389 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: there is a death scene where a whistle blower is 390 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: killed in the China Syndrome and it is supposed to 391 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: be based on the theorized version of Karen Silkwood's death. 392 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: Got it, That's what I was thinking about. Head makes 393 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: perfect sense. Yeah, so now we've got to two movies 394 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: on the list. I actually haven't seen either Silkwood or 395 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: The China Syndrome. UM, and I think that would be 396 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: great homemark. And what do you say, fellas, maybe we 397 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: do a deeper dive episode on this whole story. Agreed 398 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: well with that. I think it's maybe time for one 399 00:24:53,840 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: more quick break and then another listener message and we're back. 400 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: There's one more fascinating call from your fellow conspiracy realist 401 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: who identifies themselves as Agent K. Here's what you had 402 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: to say, Agents H Hi uh calling uh for math 403 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: Ben Noel and Mr Paul Decken. UM. I call him 404 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: Mr Paul Deckens because I've never heard his voice, so 405 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I don't know him. Which in which 406 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: case I should address him as Mr. I'm calling to 407 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: just notes and an idea for an episode topic, and 408 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: that is, could humanity be under the influence of some 409 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: sort of intelligence brain paris site that is influencing our 410 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: behaviors and our emotions. I'm Agent K and that I 411 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: would like to stay anonymous. Anonymous, and thank you Muchley, 412 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for calling Agent K. You have, whether 413 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: by intention, design or a happy accident, stumbled onto one 414 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: of my favorite big dilemmas of being a quote unquote 415 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: living thing, and that is this one of the dirtiest 416 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: secrets the human species is that no one has a 417 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: definition of intelligence that everyone agrees with. Our virus is intelligent. 418 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: We haven't even figured out how to measure intelligence across 419 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: all living things. We haven't even figured out if viruses 420 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: qualify as living things themselves. For anyone who is a 421 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: longtime listener, of course, I hope fellow conspiracy realists, that 422 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis popped in your head as soon as you heard 423 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: the idea of human beings being controlled by and intelligent 424 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: brain parasite. Toxoplasmosis is something that you can get from cats, 425 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: and there is solid evidence that it will change your 426 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: behavior as a human being when you contract this, so 427 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis gandhi can allegedly there's pretty solid evidence that it 428 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: can alter human behavior, but the big question is to 429 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: what degree can it alter behavior. It's been blamed for 430 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: everything from making people more prone to quote unquote mental illnesses, 431 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: including schizophrenia, to making people more impulsive. There's been a 432 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: ton of research behind this going back and forth. You 433 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: know in the argument, but in an earlier video, Matt, 434 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: that you and I did, we talked a lot about 435 00:27:53,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: different mind controlling parasites in mammals and an insect, especially 436 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: the the specifically adapted ones that get uh particular species 437 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: of insect and force them into behaviors meant to propagate 438 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: the life of that virus or that bacteria where that 439 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: that parasite. I think we did real life pod people 440 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: something like that. Is that correct? Yeah? We were the 441 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: one that I remember the most, and maybe this is 442 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: different for you. For you guys. Is the one called 443 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: court aceps that that makes ants into zombies. I think 444 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: it's ophio. Court accepts unilateralists and it's a fungus that 445 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: that gets into ants pretty easily, and it ends up 446 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: growing through their body and forces them to change their 447 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: behavior to the extent that they go out to a 448 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: very high place, stand like, they get very statue like, 449 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: and then the fungus proceeds to row out of their 450 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: head and creates more spores to get more creatures and 451 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: just repeat than the spores burst. Yeah, there's also the 452 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: cool parasite that becomes the tongue of certain types of 453 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: marine animals. And then there's also the uh, the eye 454 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 1: eating thing for snails. I believe the question is, especially 455 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: if we're talking about a viral parasite, is it intelligent? Well, 456 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: depends on how you measure intelligence. Just like the earlier 457 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: conversation that pleased all the the huge population of mermacologists 458 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: in the audience, uh, is you know our our aunts? 459 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: The most successful species are is a virus one of 460 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: the most intelligent living things because it only a virus, 461 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: only does a few things, but it does live very 462 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: well and it has a plan, a very specific plan. 463 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: They adapt to their environment, they change themselves in order 464 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: to survive. They do things that even experts do not expect. 465 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: I mean, viruses can improvise and improvisation is a tremendous 466 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: mark of intelligence. Well, and if anyone played the incredible 467 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 1: game The Last of Us, which as there's a sequel 468 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: out to now that's supposed to be heartbreaker and just fantastic. 469 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: The the zombie apocalypse in that game was brought on 470 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: by something referred to in the game as court accepts 471 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: brain infection UM. And if you remember the way those 472 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: zombies look, they have kind of these weird chorl like 473 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: protrusions coming out of their faces in their heads UM, 474 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: and that is sort of what it's based on. UM. 475 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: This is not something thankfully that as the humans are 476 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: susceptible to UM what you were talking about Matt and 477 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: Ben with ants and those things that grow out of 478 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: their heads. But it's it's an interesting creative use of 479 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: something very bizarre and sci fi like in the Animal Kingdom. 480 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: So the big question, and here Ben, if we are 481 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: under the control of some kind of brain parasite, what 482 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: behaviors are we doing that would be as a result 483 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: of the parasite. So that's an interesting question that if 484 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: we take the case of toxoplasma Gandhi, what we see 485 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: is this condition toxoplasmosis, if it affects behavior and living things, 486 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: an infection, viral, fungal, what have you. Bacterial is going 487 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: to seek to change behavior of a host such that 488 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: it assists in the propagation of that parasitic life form. 489 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: While that looks very space a g and sci fi 490 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: and terrifying at times uh or darkly fascinating, it's completely understandable. 491 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: It's it's a plot twist for the host, but it's 492 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: by the book for for the parasites. So one great example. 493 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: The human stuff is still controversial because as a species 494 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: were very self centered, which oddly enough, really really messages 495 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: with our research into humans for a number of reasons 496 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: that I won't go into in today's episode. So let's 497 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: take an example of another living thing that's affected by T. Gandhi. 498 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: Rats infected with this parasite behave very differently than rats 499 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: who are uninfected. If you imagine if you're a rat 500 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: not in the gangster or mafia sense, imagine if you're 501 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: a small mammal a rat. Got it, I'm a double crosser, 502 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: I understand. Usually right, you're gonna be uh terrified of 503 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: predators like cats, you know, or other omnivorous mid sized 504 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: mammals or giants to you. But if you are infected 505 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: with T. Gandhi, your behavior changes. You are sexually aroused 506 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: by the smell of cats, and you approached them and 507 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: an amorous manner. This is real. This is a conspiracy 508 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: that this infection gives two rats. And then of course 509 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: the cat kills you, eats you. Well, it probably tortures 510 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: you first because it's a cat, and then boom. T 511 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: Gandhi has hacked the cat system. And then the cat 512 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: excretes you know, it's feces, right, and the life you know, uh, 513 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: circle of life Q the Elton John song. It's all 514 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: happening again in a very ugly way. So the question 515 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: is not can can these infections alter behavior? Human behavior 516 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: or the behavior of other living things? Uh? The question 517 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: is what else is out there? What else do we 518 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: have to discover? How long do we have before something 519 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: else evolves? Yeah? And and and look, I mean not 520 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: to get to alarm mr you know, uh sci fi 521 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: about it. But even with this novel coronavirus, we know 522 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: that viruses can evolve to do things differently than than 523 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: they have done in the past. And you know, you've 524 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: got a knock wood that we have not seen a 525 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: court AEPS type virus that does you know, jump from 526 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: ants to humans, or or a version of T gandhi 527 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: that like say, makes us jump out in front of 528 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: busses or something you know. I mean, but who knows, 529 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: given a long enough timeline, what these crazy viruses will do. 530 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: So I got two quick things fascinating thing with court 531 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: SUPs that I'm just reading back through this there's an 532 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: Atlantic article from seen. It's talking about cortice ups in particular. 533 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: And one of the most fascinating things about this fungus 534 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: because it is a fungus that you know, begins as 535 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: a single cell and then a colony begins, and it 536 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: grows throughout the body, and it seems to work together 537 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: as one thing, a super organism. It is able to 538 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: control the body of that ant without getting fungal cells 539 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: into the brain of the ant whatsoever. It actually specifically 540 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: stays away from the brain. That to me is mind 541 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: boggling that that could be true, that the control mechanism 542 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't be at the place where the neurons get active 543 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: or you know, where the the decisions are made, right, 544 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: It would seem as though the brain would be the 545 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: place where all of all of the changing in behavior occurs, 546 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: but this appears to occur in several other species and 547 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: parasitic animals or parasitic organisms that attack other organisms. That 548 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: to me, that's one right number two, And I'm gonna 549 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: go full sci fi with this. No, no stops here. 550 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: What if the parasitic organism is some kind of AI 551 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: or advanced AI that has yet to be borne, that 552 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: is being born right now, that is manipulating us all 553 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: to do what we're doing right now, sitting in front 554 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: of a computer talking into a mechanized eye that is 555 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: listening to us as we talk to each other from 556 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: long distances. I'll go, I'll you know what, I'll see that, 557 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: I'll raise you. I'll go further because one thing that 558 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: I this is this is related in my mind to 559 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: the idea of defining intelligence. We also don't do the 560 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 1: best job at defining life or sentience. Think of the 561 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: idea of meme, which is just a unit of an idea, right, 562 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 1: is an idea alive? We know that, for instance, people 563 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: can be infected with ideology. Let me walk this comparison 564 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: out a little bit. It can change people's behavior, often 565 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: in a way that is delatorious to their biological imperative, 566 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: which is only to survive long enough to reproduce. What 567 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying is, you know, artificial intelligence or uh, parasite, fungal, bacterial, viral, 568 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: or an idea. Could an idea be a a life 569 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: form somehow sentient, somehow sapient of its own, just without 570 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: a corporeal form other than the brains in which it resides. 571 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: And if it resides in those brains, right then that 572 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: makes the brain very much a host to something possibly parasitic. 573 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: That's like, that's how far I'm going out with this man, 574 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. But also the idea of of a 575 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: AI that somehow exists cognitively beyond linear or time, that 576 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: is creating its own Bethlehem to slouch toward. Uh, you know, 577 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: that's that's fascinating too. But yeah, I love the idea, right. 578 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: I am fascinated and horrified by the idea that the 579 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: mind controlling parasites we're talking about here, Agent K might 580 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: not just be you know, the garden variety meat and potatoes, bacteria, virus, fungus. 581 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: Maybe it's maybe it's something completely non physical. Do we 582 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: not say it's so many periods throughout human civilization it 583 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: is you know, dulj at the core mess pro petria mori, 584 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: it is sweet and noble to die for one's country. 585 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: That's directly against the biological imperative. We're dying for ideas. 586 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: Ideas are controlling us the same way that court accepts 587 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: will control in it. Yeah, and an idea can be wrong, 588 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, or it can be one that does not 589 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: fundamentally serve us as a people if we go down 590 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: the wrong path and believe the wrong individuals in power 591 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: that are let's say cult leaders for example, Let's say 592 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: a suicide cult that's a mimetic, you know, viral idea 593 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: that people are infected with that then decide it's a 594 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: good idea to die for that person's geology like Jonestown 595 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: or like the Heaven's Gate culture or whatever. Those are 596 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: all things that are fundamentally opposed to our our biological imperative, right, Yeah, 597 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: Or's something as simple as you can't see it, but 598 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm in my mind holding up a one dollar bill, 599 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: just the viral thought that this is the most important 600 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: thing that you can do and and strive for and 601 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to make more of these, to 602 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: have these. Well, my question for you is Matt, what's 603 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: it going to take from me to get that dollar 604 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: bill you're holding, Well, it's pretty easy. Deliver me a 605 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: pizza and I will give it to you as part 606 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: of your tip, because I really want some pizza right now. 607 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,800 Speaker 1: Please don I have sort of a Tombstone type pizza. 608 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: Call back to Alexis super Producer's potential new nickname, and 609 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: so thank you Anonymous, thank you Victoria, thank you Agent Kay, 610 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone listening. You specifically you fellow 611 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy you realist. Would you like to take a page 612 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: from your fellow listeners or a phone number from your 613 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: fellow listeners or an email address. We are going to 614 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: continue this listener male segment for the foreseeable future, which 615 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: means we need your help and we cannot wait to 616 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us all over the internet. 617 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: We're on Facebook, We're on Instagram, We're on Twitter. If 618 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: you are a Facebook in clients, we always love to 619 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: recommend our favorite community page on Facebook. Here's where it 620 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: gets crazy, and you don't even need a dollar to 621 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: get into that one. All you need is a name. Uh, 622 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: either Ben's, Matt's Mine, Alexis Tombstones or Paul mission controls 623 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: um or. You don't even need a name, you just 624 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: need an idea. But it needs to be one that 625 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 1: we recognize as being uh somehow gleaned from this particular podcast, 626 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: or just let us know that. You know what the 627 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: thing is. Some people aren't real people, and that's really 628 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: all we're trying to do. Let's figure out who the 629 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: real people are. Yes, keep those non person thought parasites 630 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: away from our social pages if possible. Thank you. If 631 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: you don't want to use social media, you can give 632 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,760 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 633 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. We are officially through 634 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: the messages into July. Now it's official, everybody. We're getting 635 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: closer and closer to being one. With the timing of 636 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: the messages, we will get there very soon. Just give 637 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: us a call, let us know what you think, and 638 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,439 Speaker 1: let us know if you're cool with us using your 639 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: audio on the air. If you don't want to do that, 640 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: we've got one last way for you to contact us. 641 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: Why not send us a good old fashioned email. We 642 00:41:43,120 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they 643 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 644 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 645 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 646 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.