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Speaker 1: Fifty percent of people under the age of thirties still

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Speaker 1: live with their parents. Seventy percent of people in their

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Speaker 1: twenties are going through something called a quarter life crisis.

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Speaker 1: He's a Harvard trained psychiatrist.

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Speaker 2: Which specializes in modern mental health.

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Speaker 1: Meet doctor k It's the man behind Healthy Gamer and

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Speaker 1: the voice helping millions navigate the digital world.

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Speaker 3: What does someone do with the feeling of feeling being

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Speaker 3: left behind people.

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Speaker 1: Who feel like they're not enough. That feeling comes from

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Speaker 1: trying to make other people happy and failing.

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Speaker 3: Humans need to grow, We need to pursue something, We

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Speaker 3: need to move in a certain direction to stay a

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Speaker 3: lot of true or fulks.

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Speaker 1: Chasing growth is not the same as growing. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people get focused on doing, but they don't pay

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Speaker 1: attention to what's happening.

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Speaker 3: What does it even mean to be a man right now?

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Speaker 1: A lot of masculinity right now is men trying to

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Speaker 1: become as manly as possible in the alpha sense, and

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Speaker 1: that doesn't translate over in happiness, and that doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: When you look at people who are growing up right now,

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Speaker 3: people in their twenties and thirties, why is it that

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Speaker 3: they're confused, lonely hurt when externally everything seems to look okay.

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Speaker 3: The number one health and wellness.

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Speaker 2: Podcast Jay Sheeddy Jay Sheddy Sey Only Set.

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Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you

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Speaker 3: come to become the happier, healthier and more healed. I'm

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Speaker 3: so grateful because today's guest is someone that I've been

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Speaker 3: really really looking forward to talking to. I've watched a

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Speaker 3: ton of his interviews, what's a ton of his videos.

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Speaker 3: He's got millions and millions of subscribers, millions and millions

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Speaker 3: of views online. He's the author of How to Raise

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Speaker 3: a Healthy Gamer. If you haven't got a copy of

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Speaker 3: the book, make sure you grab one. After today's conversation,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about the one the Only doctor K, Doctor K.

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Speaker 3: It is great to have you on on Purpose. I've

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Speaker 3: genuinely looked forward to this. I find your reflections to

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Speaker 3: be poignant, powerful, direct, there's no bs, and you're so

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Speaker 3: well informed and well studied and set that it's pretty

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Speaker 3: hard to debate and argue with you in a good way.

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Speaker 3: So thank you so much well the work you've done.

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Speaker 1: I mean, thank you so much for having me. I

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Speaker 1: think you know I similarly really appreciate the work that

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Speaker 1: you do. You know, I'm so curious about you, actually

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Speaker 1: because I see a lot of the work that you do,

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Speaker 1: and I know about you know, your I think it

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Speaker 1: was your first book, and so I think we may

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of a shared history, which I'm

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Speaker 1: super curious about. But I really appreciate the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: be here and would love to support the mission of

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Speaker 1: your podcast.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much, and we should definitely dive

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Speaker 3: into that. I'd love to learn. Tell me, tell me,

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Speaker 3: tell me about some of the shed history that you know.

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Speaker 1: So I understand that you grew up. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you grew up or you have some sort of

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Speaker 1: spiritual training or you grew up with spiritual training. I'm

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Speaker 1: really curious about how you made the decision to walk

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Speaker 1: away from that and sort of where what kind of

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Speaker 1: spiritual tradition you come from. Yeah, I see the way

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Speaker 1: that you embody some of these concepts and and it's

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Speaker 1: sort of it's baked into the assumptions that you have

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Speaker 1: when you approach the world. Even just meeting you and

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff that we just did. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think you live some of this stuff. But I'm

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Speaker 1: super curious about you know how you got to be

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Speaker 1: where you are.

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Speaker 3: Well, we'll get into it. Yeah, yeah, we'll get into it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think the place I wanted to start

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Speaker 3: with you is I find it so fascinating that you

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Speaker 3: focus so much on young people and young men in general.

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Speaker 3: And I feel that when you look at people who

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Speaker 3: are growing up right now, when you look at people

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Speaker 3: in their twenties and thirties, why is it that they're

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Speaker 3: secretly confused, lonely hr when externally everything seems to look okay.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the people that I work with,

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Speaker 1: I think, externally things don't look okay. I think that

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Speaker 1: was more true a few years ago. I think now

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Speaker 1: we're starting to become more and more aware that things

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Speaker 1: are even externally not okay. But I'm totally with you.

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Speaker 1: I think you know. I was just reading a paper

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Speaker 1: about this guy named Eric Erickson, who sort of talks

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Speaker 1: about the state that we go through in life. He

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Speaker 1: was a psychologist or psychiatrist, and so he said that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are going through something called a

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Speaker 1: noiseless crisis.

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Speaker 3: Soortant to me.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people that you look at are going

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Speaker 1: through a crisis that you will never see. So we're

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Speaker 1: sort of familiar with this idea of a mid life crisis.

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Speaker 1: This is when men like me and you, you know,

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Speaker 1: we maybe hit our forties, maybe hit our fifties, we're

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Speaker 1: maybe paying a mortgage, we don't get to do what

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Speaker 1: we want, will maybe dye our hair, buy a convertible

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Speaker 1: and start driving really fast. But what I think is

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Speaker 1: happening way more. And there was an interesting study on

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Speaker 1: LinkedIn that found that seventy percent of people in their

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Speaker 1: twenties or going through something called a quarter life crisis.

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Speaker 1: So this is a time when you're sort of like,

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Speaker 1: you sort of took all the right steps, you did

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Speaker 1: what you should do, but you wake up one day

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Speaker 1: and you realize this is not the life that I want.

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Speaker 1: So I think we're seeing a ton of that, and

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Speaker 1: I think that one of the main reasons for that

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Speaker 1: is that the answers that the generation before before gave

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Speaker 1: us used to work. So like when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: you know, my parents were like super like, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: you have to be a doctor. And then this sort

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Speaker 1: of idea of going to college, getting educated, you'll get

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Speaker 1: a good job, and then you'll be able to buy

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Speaker 1: a house and happily. Ever after kind of stuff. But

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Speaker 1: I think that formula doesn't work anymore. I think our

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Speaker 1: institutions have started to fail us. Not in a negative way,

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Speaker 1: but I think if you look at the way that

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Speaker 1: psychiatry develops, you know, we'll do research for twenty or

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Speaker 1: thirty years before we figure something out. And there's still

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Speaker 1: studies being published on Facebook today. And I don't mean Meta,

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Speaker 1: I mean Facebook. So this was a trial that started

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Speaker 1: like eight years ago that they're like publishing the results now.

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Speaker 1: So the rate of change in the world is rapidly

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Speaker 1: increasing and we don't really know how to deal with it,

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Speaker 1: and young people are getting absolutely crushed.

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Speaker 3: And it's that affecting are you saying it's affecting our identity?

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Speaker 3: Like you said before, there was almost a path that

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Speaker 3: was laid out yep, And so you had these milestones effectively,

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Speaker 3: I go to college, I graduate, or get married at

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Speaker 3: a certain age, or buy a house at a certain age,

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Speaker 3: or retire a cern age. There were these milestones that

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Speaker 3: were laid out for you. And now, whether you go

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Speaker 3: to college or not, there's basically no milestones because the

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Speaker 3: goals have changed, the targets have changed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't even know if I think the

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Speaker 1: targets have changed, but I think the bigger problem is

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Speaker 1: the targets aren't meetable anymore. So, just as a simple example,

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Speaker 1: when I went to college, it costs about five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a semester. Yeah, six thousand dollars, I think. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, college costs me. It took me five and

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Speaker 1: a half years to graduate, so it cost me somewhere

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Speaker 1: around thirty thousand dollars to get an undergraduate degree. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's the cost of one year now, right, So

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Speaker 1: costs are increasing a lot if you look at this

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Speaker 1: idea of like, you know, getting married by a certain age.

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Speaker 1: And I have so many patients who really struggle with

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Speaker 1: this because they feel like they're late. They're like fifty

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Speaker 1: percent of people under the age of thirty still live

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Speaker 1: with their parents. So if you sort of think about

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Speaker 1: how does that cast say that again, fifty percent of

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Speaker 1: people under the age of thirty who are adults still

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Speaker 1: live with their parents.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I didn't know that, right. So people in the US,

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Speaker 3: like India.

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Speaker 1: And it's an economic thing because it used to be

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Speaker 1: that you can like, I mean think about you know,

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Speaker 1: we're here in New York, like rents are crazy, like

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Speaker 1: you can pay like three thousand dollars for like a closet,

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Speaker 1: you know. So now it's just not people are finishing college.

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Speaker 1: They have a ton of debt, there's inflation, people are

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Speaker 1: not able to get jobs. And then if you think

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Speaker 1: about the cascading effect, if I want to date, right

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Speaker 1: and I'm like a twenty seven year old dude, and

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Speaker 1: then like if the date goes well, it's like do

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Speaker 1: you want to come back to my place? And then

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Speaker 1: we go back to my place that like my BA

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Speaker 1: is there, you know, and then it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: you can't really, you know, do that. So we're seeing

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Speaker 1: sort of this epidemic of loneliness. We're seeing this like

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Speaker 1: dating and mating crisis amongst like men and women, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of young men are struggling a lot of

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Speaker 1: young women are struggling to and so like, I think

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Speaker 1: the world that we lived in is changed, and we

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Speaker 1: need new answers, we need new paths to navigate this world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I love what you said about how the targets

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Speaker 3: are just unmetable. Yeah, because that's why people feel behind,

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Speaker 3: It's why they feel late, it's why they feel they'll

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Speaker 3: never get there. I now we're all using chat GPT.

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Speaker 3: But a couple of years ago, when I was writing

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Speaker 3: my second book, I started it off by talking about

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Speaker 3: how if you type in on Google, the first thing

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Speaker 3: when you type in will I ever which is obviously

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Speaker 3: a question about your future and possibility, The first thing

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Speaker 3: that comes up is will I ever find love?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 3: And the second thing that comes up is will I

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Speaker 3: ever be enough? Wow? Those are the top two questions wow.

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Speaker 3: And when you look at that and you think wow,

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Speaker 3: like love and self worth like they are right up

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Speaker 3: there as the top two most Google things at that time.

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Speaker 3: Now on chat GPT, I'm sure we'll get so much

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Speaker 3: more data. But I love what you said about unmet needs.

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Speaker 3: What does someone do with the feeling of feeling late,

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Speaker 3: of feeling behind, or feeling being left behind?

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Speaker 1: So this is why I was excited to come here

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Speaker 1: today because you didn't ask me why, you asked what

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Speaker 1: does someone do?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what sort of exemplifies what I

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Speaker 1: appreciate about you, is that you're always focused on what

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Speaker 1: to do, not necessarily why things happen. So I think

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Speaker 1: you know, if you have that feeling, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of important things to do The first is that

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Speaker 1: that feeling has to do with your sense of identity.

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Speaker 1: So where do you get these expectations? Who do you

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Speaker 1: think you are? And I don't mean that sounds so bad,

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Speaker 1: but like, really, who do you think you are? How

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Speaker 1: do you understand who you are? And this is what

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Speaker 1: we see in people who have a quarter life crisis

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Speaker 1: is that they are too busy with identification that they

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Speaker 1: don't understand identity. Now, I know that's kind of confusing,

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Speaker 1: but if we think about identification, what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: That means that I'm going to look outside of me

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to find a group of people and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say my identity is, like I'm one

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Speaker 1: of these people out right, Like I'm a goth kid,

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Speaker 1: or I'm super into football, or I'm a gamer right,

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Speaker 1: or I'm an inceel like there are all kinds of

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Speaker 1: ways that we can identify. We can identify with a

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Speaker 1: political party, but identification and identity are two different things.

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Speaker 1: And I think that when people feel like they are behind,

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Speaker 1: they have this expectation. They're looking outside and they're saying

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Speaker 1: this is what I should be, But their information about

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Speaker 1: who they are comes from what they see outside of them,

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Speaker 1: And the most important thing that you can do, I

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Speaker 1: know it sounds kind of generic, is to look within

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Speaker 1: and I mean really think about, you know, how do

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Speaker 1: I feel about myself? What do I want in life?

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Speaker 1: I oftentimes find that people who feel like they're not

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Speaker 1: enough that feeling comes from trying to make other people

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Speaker 1: happy and failing. Right, So, if my parents want me

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Speaker 1: to be a doctor and I don't go to medical school,

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Speaker 1: which is what happened in my case, you know, then

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Speaker 1: you've let them down. And we get so much our

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Speaker 1: our core sense of identity, the way we're socialized usually

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Speaker 1: comes from people outside of us. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of research on things like attachment theory, where a child

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Speaker 1: knows what they feel based on reflection from people around them.

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Speaker 1: And my favorite example of this is, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I remember when I had a two year old

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Speaker 1: daughter and she was like running around and then she

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Speaker 1: would fall, and then in a moment, what she would

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Speaker 1: do is look around, and if everyone else is like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, are you okay, she'd start crying. But

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Speaker 1: if everyone is laughing, she'd get up and start laughing too.

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Speaker 1: So we learn so much about ourselves from the people

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Speaker 1: around us. I think the problem is that the expectations

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Speaker 1: that everyone places on us are no longer meetable in

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Speaker 1: the same way. So what you really need to do

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Speaker 1: is ask yourself, you know, who am I living for?

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Speaker 1: What do I want? What are the expectations that I've

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Speaker 1: internalized that form my value? And then I also tend

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Speaker 1: to use a lot of meditation practices, So I really

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Speaker 1: like for people who have identity problems, people have narcissism

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Speaker 1: or low self esteem, I'll do a certain kind of

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Speaker 1: meditation practice called shunya, which is Shunya means void or nothingness,

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Speaker 1: and so they sort of you cultivate this experience of

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Speaker 1: like complete emptiness. And when you cultivate that experience of emptiness,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of your brain called the default mode network,

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Speaker 1: and this is the part of your brain that thinks

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Speaker 1: about you. So like, you know, your brain thinks about

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things. I'm paying attention to you, but

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Speaker 1: they're sometimes when we reflect on ourselves, what do I

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Speaker 1: think of myself? The really interesting thing is that the

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Speaker 1: default mode network, this self reflective capability, is hyperactive when

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Speaker 1: you're very depressed. So when people are super depressed, what

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Speaker 1: are they thinking about? A lot of people think that

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Speaker 1: they're thinking about how the world is falling apart. They're

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Speaker 1: really thinking about themselves. I'm a loser, I'm pathetic. I've

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Speaker 1: had patience who will come in and say, you know,

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Speaker 1: my family would be better off without me, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: hurting my kids by existing, so I'm going to kill myself.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, they think so negatively and you can't

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Speaker 1: get them to stop. And so the interesting thing is

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Speaker 1: is we treat depression. The default mode network deactivates as

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Speaker 1: you do meditations, and I think Shunya is a specific

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Speaker 1: meditation that I suspect activates this pretty quickly. You stop

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Speaker 1: thinking about yourself, and when you stop sort of hyper focusing,

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Speaker 1: then this is I know it's kind of paradoxical, but

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Speaker 1: when we think about ourselves, what we're really doing is

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Speaker 1: we're internalizing expectations. Then you start getting data from within

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Speaker 1: that's not the same as thinking about yourself. It is

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Speaker 1: actually paying attention to yourself. And then you start to

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Speaker 1: get these internal signals and you get some amount of quietness,

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Speaker 1: some amount of stillness, some amount of groundedness, and then

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Speaker 1: people start to move in the right direction. You start

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Speaker 1: to feel better.

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Speaker 3: Talk to me about that difference between paying attention to

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Speaker 3: yourself and thinking about yourself. What are the different thoughts

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Speaker 3: and emotions and feelings that are connected to each?

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Speaker 1: Oh beautiful. So thoughts, emotions, and feelings are all thinking

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Speaker 1: about yourself. When I think about myself, I'm literally having thoughts.

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Speaker 1: All oak is good, all oak is bad, all oak

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Speaker 1: is beautiful, all oak is ugly. That's all thinking about yourself.

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Speaker 1: Getting information from within is not thinking about right. So

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Speaker 1: if I think about something, I am over here and

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Speaker 1: the thing is over there. So the object of what

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about happens to be me, but the thinking

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Speaker 1: is happening over here. I am using my mind to

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Speaker 1: think about myself. So it's kind of like if you

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Speaker 1: look at your reflection in a mirror, you don't see yourself.

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Speaker 1: You are seeing a reflection of yourself. What you're really

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Speaker 1: seeing is a mirror. Right. So what I think people

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Speaker 1: and people get stuck in this right because they're thinking

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Speaker 1: about themselves a lot. Instead, what they need to do

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Speaker 1: is pay attention to themselves. Now, paying attention means observing,

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Speaker 1: not thinking. Just watch and something really interesting happens. So

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Speaker 1: I work with some patients who have schizophrenia and they

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Speaker 1: become psychotic, and it's really interesting. So when I was

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Speaker 1: back at Harvard, I was trying to to develop meditation

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Speaker 1: protocols for particular mental illnesses. So if you suffer from depression,

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Speaker 1: you know what kind of meditation do you do? And

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Speaker 1: anxiety and stuff? And I turned that all into a guide.

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Speaker 1: But when I have patients with psychosis, what I would

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Speaker 1: try to so these are people who are having hallucinations

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Speaker 1: and delusions, and what I would really focus on with

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Speaker 1: them is they would get so caught up in it, right,

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Speaker 1: And in psychiatry we try to make the hallucinations go away.

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Speaker 1: That's a good treatment, you know, that can be very

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Speaker 1: good treatment. But the other thing that I would add

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Speaker 1: to medications and things like that is let's learn how

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Speaker 1: to just watch it without getting pulled into it if

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Speaker 1: they're there, like, so what right? Can you just continue

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Speaker 1: to focus on this? Can you shift your attention away

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Speaker 1: from it? So simply observing gives us distance. So there

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Speaker 1: are other patients that I have that will get so

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Speaker 1: caught up in something. And maybe you know your listeners

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Speaker 1: have situations where like someone gets dumped and then your

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Speaker 1: friend comes to you, they're like, oh my god, like

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Speaker 1: my life is over. My life is ever take a

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Speaker 1: step back, like, get some perspective. So as we observe things,

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Speaker 1: the bite comes out of it. We start to gain

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Speaker 1: a little bit of distance from it, and so you

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Speaker 1: can just witness Okay, I'm feeling anxious today, right, So

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Speaker 1: this is very different if I say my life is

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Speaker 1: falling apart versus saying there's a part of me that

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Speaker 1: feels like my life is falling apart. That doesn't make

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Speaker 1: it true. Thoughts aren't facts, so that observation is a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. It's actually a skill uses a different

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Speaker 1: part of the brain, and as people start doing that,

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Speaker 1: they get some distance, they get some perspective. And the

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Speaker 1: really interesting thing is when that part of the brain activates,

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Speaker 1: it's like your anterior singular cortex, the part of your

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Speaker 1: brain that experiences emotion like you're amygdala. This is like

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Speaker 1: your threat center, your survival center that actually starts to

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Speaker 1: calm down. So people will literally as you turn this

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Speaker 1: part of the brain on, this other part of the

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Speaker 1: brain will naturally turn off.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, it's almost like thinking has an element of you,

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Speaker 3: attaching your story and prediction and projection unto yourself and

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Speaker 3: observing is just watching the story. It's almost like there's

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Speaker 3: not even a story. Actually, you're just watching it, just seeing.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful way to put it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you're right that your mind attaches a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff, right, And this is why I'm curious about

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Speaker 1: your background. But you know, in Sanskrit than in the

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Speaker 1: Eastern spiritual traditions, we have this concept of detachment or

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Speaker 1: vit agya. And what we sort of notice is if

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Speaker 1: you really think about what the source of your suffering is,

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Speaker 1: it's there can be pain, but usually what really messes

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Speaker 1: people up are the implications of what happens.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Oh, if like if this person says they're if this

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Speaker 1: person doesn't return my text within the hour, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean? That means they don't like me. That means

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Speaker 1: they think they're better than me, That means they're more

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Speaker 1: important people. We attach all kinds of things, and it

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Speaker 1: happens really rapidly, it happens subconsciously. That's really where our

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Speaker 1: suffering comes from.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, Yeah. The Buddha called it the second arrow.

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Speaker 3: Like the first arrow, it hurts it's things, and then

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Speaker 3: the second arrow is the meaning the story, the implication

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Speaker 3: that you have not even checked, you've not fact checked,

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Speaker 3: you've not observed, and there it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm glad you brought up that example because

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Speaker 1: I was reading that text recently. I didn't realize, I think.

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Speaker 1: So we talk about the second arrow a lot in psychiatry,

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Speaker 1: which is this concept that you life sends you the

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Speaker 1: first arrow. You can't control whether you get dumped or not,

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Speaker 1: but it is the implication that you attach. Right, So

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Speaker 1: if I get dumped, that's a fact that there's some

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Speaker 1: amount of pain, some amount of grief. But then you

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Speaker 1: start to tell yourself, I'm a loser, I'm not good enough,

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Speaker 1: I'm not good enough, I'll always be alone. Those kinds

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Speaker 1: of thoughts are what you add to the equation, the

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Speaker 1: really fascinating thing about how to stop doing that. So

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Speaker 1: this is why it was blown away. I recently read.

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Speaker 1: I realized i'd never like, actually looked at the teachings

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Speaker 1: of the Buddha. What I had done is everyone talks

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Speaker 1: about the teachings of the Buddha, right, but it's like

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Speaker 1: other people talking about the boos. So what I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize is the bod that actually says the second arrow.

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Speaker 1: So we in psychiatry we talk about this is how

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Speaker 1: you avoid pain and negative emotions. The bod that says

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Speaker 1: the problem with the second arrow is also your positive emotions.

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Speaker 1: He says, you should stop attaching that to your positive

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Speaker 1: emotions as well. So when something good happens to your life,

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Speaker 1: we get excited about it, he says, don't do that.

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Speaker 1: So if you get a promotion that means I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do this, and that means I'm going to do this,

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Speaker 1: and that means I'm going to do this, stop doing

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Speaker 1: all that promotion is That's all it is. It has

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Speaker 1: no implications. And the really fascinating thing is this is

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Speaker 1: why it's so hard for people. Everyone wants the associations

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Speaker 1: of the good stuff, but nobody wants to give up

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Speaker 1: the associations of the bad stuff. That's not how the

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Speaker 1: brain works. If you want to decouple those two things,

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Speaker 1: take something in your life that is good and look

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Speaker 1: at why you're excited about it, and then let go

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Speaker 1: of that excitement. It happened, that's it. Observe it. It's

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Speaker 1: in the past. It doesn't mean anything about your future.

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Speaker 1: And if you yourself on both sides of those coins

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Speaker 1: at that coin, then your mastery will increase. Way more quickly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, it's as you know as well. It's the

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Speaker 3: definition of equanimity in the Gita of the idea that

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Speaker 3: one's not disturbed by happiness or distress. And that's really

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Speaker 3: interesting use of words. It's like, how could you ever

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Speaker 3: be disturbed by happiness? But that's how you are because

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Speaker 3: you created so much additional meaning, which now when it

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Speaker 3: didn't happen, the promotion didn't even make you happy anymore.

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Speaker 3: You believe the promotion was your right towards some bigger,

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Speaker 3: greater thing, and now you can't even experience the joy

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Speaker 3: of that moment.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's what I see, you know, I have

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Speaker 1: kind of like a couple different buckets of patients. And

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing is I have people who are like

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old living at home, you know, in

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Speaker 1: their mom's basement, playing video games and watching pornography all day.

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Speaker 1: And then I also have like executives and CEOs and

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Speaker 1: startup founders, and they do exactly that. They attach a

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Speaker 1: lot of things to their happiness, so they end up

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Speaker 1: moving the goalposts. One promotion isn't enough. Now I need

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Speaker 1: another one. Now I need another one, Now I need

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Speaker 1: another one. And it's beautiful, you know the quote from

434
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: the Githa that you said, because I think what does

435
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: it mean to be disturbed by happiness? Literally the way

436
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: that I try to work with these people is a

437
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: disturbance is anything that creates a change in your mind.

438
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 1: So your natural state is to be still. Think about

439
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: when you watch a sunset, you know, or you're just

440
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: like completely peaceful, like you're just there with yourself. And

441
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: even when you get a promotion that creates a disturbance,

442
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: and the moment that you create a disturbance, you're no

443
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: longer still, You're no longer at peace, and you may

444
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: be signing yourself up for future disappointment.

445
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: What I'm really intrigued by is how do you kind

446
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 3: of factor that thought in with growth? Because it's almost

447
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 3: like humans need to grow, we need to pursue something,

448
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: We need to move in a certain direction to stay alive.

449
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: True of for us, I think that's the most common way.

450
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 3: Right, So what's a healthier way or what would be

451
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 3: the better way?

452
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: Healthier? Better is a tricky language, Yeah, so what's so

453
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: I think that so this is really confused. I'm glad

454
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: you asked this because I think chasing growth is not

455
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 1: the same as growing. A lot of people get focused

456
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: on doing, but they don't pay attention to what's happening.

457
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: So I see this all the time in patients with addiction,

458
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: where like you know, you're they're doing something like a

459
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: substance or pornography or something like that, but they're not

460
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 1: really paying attention to how does pornography or the substance

461
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: rewire my brain? If I crush up opiates and snort

462
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 1: them right now? What am I signing myself up for tomorrow?

463
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: What is the human I am creating? What is the

464
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,959
Speaker 1: life I will inherit if I take this action today?

465
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing there is, once you start paying

466
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: attention to that, it's not really about growing, it's not

467
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: about getting anywhere. It's just what do I want to

468
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: inherit tomorrow? That's a great way I think to think

469
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 1: about it, right, I think like actually super short term,

470
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:16,239
Speaker 1: so I think wanting growth, ambition, goals. These are wonderful motivators,

471
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: but they won't bring you happiness. Right, So you can

472
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: get satisfaction of the ego through achievement, But then you've

473
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: done something really sneaky, which is that you've made the

474
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: lever of satisfaction in your life, gratification of the ego.

475
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: So I want to chase this. I want to get promoted,

476
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: but that's really tricky. Like, sure, you can get promoted

477
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: and you can feel really good, but now you are

478
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: training your brain to feel good when you get something.

479
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: And so this is something that no amount of promotions

480
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 1: will ever be enough.

481
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,479
Speaker 3: It's less about what's happening and who you're becoming and

482
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: what you're inheriting, and more about what you're doing. And

483
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 3: that's why we get addicted to doing.

484
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so we get addicted to doing because we

485
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 1: want our internal state to change. Right, So if I'm like,

486
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: if I'm not happy, if I do something about it,

487
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: then my circumstances will change. If I get her flowers

488
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: one more time, she'll say yes when I ask her

489
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: out on a date. But what we're really doing is

490
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: we're putting the control of our life. We're putting our

491
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: internal happiness or contentment based on how the world responds

492
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: to me. So I'm not saying that you shouldn't act,

493
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 1: which a lot of people will say, like should you

494
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: not act? Which, actually, if you do this right will

495
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: be where you end up. And that's what happened to

496
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: the Buda, right, So he said, like, I'm going to

497
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: walk this spiritual path, walked away from his wife, walked

498
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: away from his son. And so I think that there

499
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: is a certain part of this path that is not

500
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: conducive to life that you will start to change so much,

501
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: you will start to stop caring so much about the

502
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: things that everyone around you cares that it can become

503
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: really difficult.

504
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I was going to say, that

505
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 3: even if we go back to the simple idea at

506
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 3: the beginning, where you said, if you know who you are,

507
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 3: you can start to choose your own values, almost your

508
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 3: own metrics, your own milestones that aren't based on your parents' society,

509
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 3: the things around you. But the challenge with that is

510
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: you're fighting against decades and decades of wiring that is

511
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,959
Speaker 3: encouraging you to move at these milestones, to move at

512
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: this pace, to be married by this age, to have

513
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: kids by this age. And so it's such a struggle.

514
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: Sometimes it can feel because you're like, wait a minute,

515
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: I'm trying to follow my whatever it is, but over

516
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: here there's this chart that feels like it's ranking me constantly.

517
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: That doesn't just disappear. How do we hold on to

518
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: our values and a new vision in a world that

519
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 3: has a very clear script you should follow.

520
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: So it's a great question. I guess this is where

521
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: like I'd like to just share my experience, which is

522
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: really weird. So I think that I got to where

523
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: I am by making a series of terrible decisions, and

524
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: I strongly encourage everybody else to consider doing the same.

525
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: So I spent seven years starting to become a monk

526
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: and then decided to walk away from that. Right, So

527
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: this is like abandoning this path that I spent so

528
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: much time putting into. Decided that I fell in love

529
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: and the whole met my wife and was not super

530
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: interested in bromachadia celibacy, and so you know, did that

531
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: and then ended up going to medical school. Towards the

532
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: end of medical school, I was going to do holistic

533
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: oncology and do like evidence based complementary alternative medicine for

534
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: cancer treatment. My dad was a cancer doctor, so I

535
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: was like, I learned all this stuff in India, and

536
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: I was like, let's secure cancer with like herbs and

537
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: yoga and meditation and chemotherapy. And then towards the end

538
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: of it, I fell in love with psychiatry, and even

539
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: my family was like actually super against it. They're like

540
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: this is crazy. Like my mom the doctor was like,

541
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: you're going to go crazy if you spend time with

542
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: crazy people all the time, right, why don't you like

543
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: be a real doctor, like new cardiology. Look, it's the

544
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: second point. Wife was watching Gray's Anatomy. She wanted to

545
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: me to be a neurosurgeon. I was like, same organ,

546
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: but maybe in a different way. And so I sort

547
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: of walked away. I'd done a bunch of research and

548
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: things like that, and so I sort of walked away

549
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: from that path and like at the eleventh hour sort

550
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: of tried to apply for psychiatry, ended up getting lucky,

551
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: and then I wound up at Harvard and I was

552
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: like faculty at Harvard Medical School and was like, you know,

553
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: working on these meditation protocols and stuff like that. And

554
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: then I kind of started streaming one day talking to

555
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: like broke gamers on the internet because I realized, like

556
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: no one's really helping them, and so like walked away

557
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: from like that academic career. And then the weird thing

558
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: is like that sort of picked up in a weird way.

559
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: So I think that what a lot of people don't

560
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: realize is that so here I am. You're kind of saying, okay,

561
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: so how do I the world wants me to be this?

562
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: This is what I want to be, and there's a

563
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: fundamental mismatch. Even if I'm going to do this, I'm

564
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: going to piss off the world and what I've seen

565
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: not only in myself but also my patients who I

566
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: encourage this path for. I was really worried because I

567
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: realized that about forty percent of my patients within eighteen

568
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: months of coming to see me will make a career change.

569
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

570
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: And I was like worried that I'm biasing them in

571
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: some way, Like am I like shaping them? But I

572
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: think once you start to realize, okay, this is the

573
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: direction that I want to move. Once you cast some

574
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: of those things off and you start moving in your direction,

575
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: you get so much positive internal feedback, like, yeah, people

576
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: around you were upset, but you are grounded. And if

577
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: you really think about when you feel the most out

578
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: of control in life, it's because you let the opinions

579
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: of other people disturb this. But as long as you

580
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: were secure in what you're doing, if you really lean

581
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: into that, and there's so much positive feedback, like it

582
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: the first time I started streaming on Twitch and you know,

583
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: like there were five people there. It felt so good

584
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: to talk to them. It just felt right, felt right

585
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: in here. And the biggest thing getting in the way

586
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: of that in today's society is we use technology to

587
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: dull what's going on in here. I'm feeling anxious, like

588
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: I'm on the subway, I'm bored. I don't like feeling bored.

589
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: Let me pull out my phone. I'm feeling anxious. Let

590
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: me pull out my phone. Oh my god, my boss

591
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: just told me, like, ah, let me pull out my phone.

592
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: So we do so many things with technology that dull

593
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: our sense of self. We don't like to be with

594
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: ourselves anymore. I saw a super scary study. People are

595
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: spending so much time on the toilet with their phone.

596
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: It's increasing the risk of hemorrhoids by about sixty five percent.

597
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: Oh and they're not even pushing, They're just sitting there.

598
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: And if you stay in that position in your body,

599
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 1: it puts pressure on the blood vessels. And like, sitting

600
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: on the toilet with your phone is giving people hemorrhoids.

601
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's super scary, and it does something

602
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: similar to your mind too. I don't know why, but.

603
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: As I'm listening to you, I'm just thinking, like, that's

604
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: really the core of all of it. And you talked

605
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 3: about the ego self at the beginning. It's almost like

606
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: the reason why we're so obsessed with what everyone thinks

607
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: about us is because of the egos right there. So

608
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: if I was to ask you, what if someone do

609
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: to truly stop caring what people think? Because there's usefulness

610
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: in caring what people think. It's what helps the world

611
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 3: stay sane to some degree. But at the same time,

612
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: there's a part of you with what you're saying, which

613
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 3: I love. Is this idea of love. I love the

614
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: explanation you gave between Hey, when I was live on

615
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: Twitch for five people, it felt right here, and then

616
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: the opposite to that, which is, I don't feel good

617
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: right here, so I'm going to numb myself with technology

618
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: or you said, dull yourself. How do we even get

619
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: to that clarity that I like doing this right now

620
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: because I think we've all become so clouded. And I'm

621
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: sure you see this with the people you help and

622
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: serve and the millions of people online all the time

623
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: that even when you encourage someone to move in a

624
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 3: direction of noticing what's true to them, it becomes a

625
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: really difficult concept for people because I don't know what's

626
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: true for me. I'm kind of I like these all

627
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 3: these things, and I like this then, but now I'm

628
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: distracted by video games. I'm now distracted by porn. I'm

629
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: now like those polls are so strong that even if

630
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 3: you're close to knowing goll I really like this five

631
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: people on Twitch, the distraction of oh I wish I

632
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 3: had a million subscribers is so strong that you get

633
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: pulled away from that sense. How does someone truly know

634
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 3: something that feels right for them to pursue in a

635
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: world where they're either clouded so they don't know themselves

636
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: well enough or they get distracted.

637
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: I think the answer is sort of in the question.

638
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: And I think this is why it's fun to talk

639
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: to you, because you ask questions with certain concepts in mind.

640
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: So I think you know, I don't know what I feel,

641
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: So let's understand that first, right, So if you want

642
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: to understand what you really want because you are getting distracted,

643
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: like and it happens to me too, I'll see you

644
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: know now that I'm in like whatever room I'm in,

645
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: I make comparisons. Right, Oh, this doctor is doing this,

646
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: this influencer is doing this. So the first thing to

647
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: understand is that where you spend your attention is going

648
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: to be where you get information. So literally, like if

649
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: I numb your tongue, like if I'm doing dental surgery,

650
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: like you know, you can't talk, you can't chew. So

651
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: one of the key concepts is awareness precedes control. And

652
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: you kind of pointed this out that if we look

653
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: at what's happening in our world, where is our perception going,

654
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: where is our attention going, It's always going outside of us.

655
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,959
Speaker 1: You know when I was in med school, I started

656
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: med school at the age of twenty eight, which was behind,

657
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: and so I was like, oh my god, Like I

658
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: have to be efficient. I have to be efficient. Everyone

659
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: is so concerned with productivity in efficiency. I think it's

660
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: one of the most damaging things in the world. Because

661
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 1: now I'm listening to a podcast on the way to

662
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: the train, I'm reading on the train, listening to a

663
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: lecture on the way to lecture Hall, paying attention into

664
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: lecture Hall, Like every moment I can be productive I

665
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: can be efficient, but my attention is outside of me,

666
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: so I get bad. I Basically the other thing to

667
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: understand about the mind is the mind never wears out.

668
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: It rusts the faculties that you do not use, you

669
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: will lose. This is why we forget languages that we

670
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: don't practice right. So our attention is going outside of us,

671
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: getting pulled away by things like technology. And then once

672
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: we start to if I spend all of my time

673
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: thinking about what everybody else is doing, I will not

674
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: have a good sense of myself. So the first thing

675
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: we need to do is internalize our awareness. The second

676
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: thing to understand is that internalizing our awareness why don't

677
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: we do that because it's usually painful. So I don't

678
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: know why the world is designed this way. But when

679
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: a patient comes to me and sits in therapy, they

680
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: don't have a breakthrough first and then cry a lot

681
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: at the end. They cry a lot, they face their trauma,

682
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: they face their negative emotions, and then the good stuff

683
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: is at the end. So the reason people don't like

684
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: to look within themselves, we actually try really hard to

685
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: never look within ourselves because there's usually a lot of

686
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: pain in there. Like I remember when I was at

687
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: the height of my video game addiction. I was like

688
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: eighteen years old, and I know for an eighteen for

689
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: a whole year, I never went to sleep. I always

690
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,479
Speaker 1: passed out if I got into bed, And what would

691
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: happen if I was idle? Thoughts would start to flow, like,

692
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: you're screwing up your life. You know a month has

693
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: gone by, you haven't gone to a single class in

694
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: a month. You're screwing everything up. I could see that

695
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: I was destroying my life and I was powerless to

696
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: stop it, so shame and guilt would flood my mind,

697
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: and I hated that. So I would play until five

698
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: point thirty in the morning, six in the morning, so

699
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: I was so exhausted that I would just pass out

700
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: immediately because if I was awake for even five minutes,

701
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: my mind would turn on and I would be awake

702
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: for hours in absolute torture. So we don't like to

703
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: look within ourselves because looking within ourselves is painful. This

704
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: is where there has to be this ugly part. And

705
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: from a neuroscience perspective, what's going on is we're doing

706
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: so much emotional suppression through technological devices. That's what they do, right,

707
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: So if you're feeling anxious and you pull out your

708
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: phone and you like laugh at cats, then like suddenly

709
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: you feel better. So it shuts that stuff off. So

710
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: as we shut off these circuits of the brain, we

711
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: have to rewaken them. And this is probably from an

712
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: evolutionary perspective. I don't know if this kind of makes sense,

713
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: but negative emotions keep us alive more than positive emotions.

714
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: So our brain has a bias to experience the negative

715
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: over the positive. So the first thing we have to

716
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: do is move our attention away from the outside world.

717
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: Spend some time with yourself. No music, no headphones, no

718
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: podcast nothing like that. I mean, I love podcasts, love

719
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: this podcast, but spend some time. You know, after you

720
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: listen to this episode, sit in silence, let yourself absorb.

721
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: Second thing is, if you sit with yourself, what's going

722
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: to come up is a lot and negativity. But that

723
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: negativity has to come out before it disappears. So when

724
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm sitting with a patient who has a history of trauma,

725
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: the trauma is like stuck inside them and they use

726
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: so many defense mechanisms to bury it. We want to

727
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: bring that stuff up. We want to have you crying

728
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: and stuff like that and then let it go. And

729
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: then underneath all the negativity you will find that voice,

730
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: that internal sense of really what you want right when

731
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: you have a good cry at the end of that,

732
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: like you'll have a sense of peace and you'll be like, Okay,

733
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: like this sucks. Now that I've sat with it, what

734
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: am I going to do about it? And it's amazing

735
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: how it happens. You don't have to do it. All

736
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: you have to do is create the right circumstances. And

737
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: in the same way that your body the moment that

738
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: you swallow a piece of food, your body takes care

739
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: of the rest. If you give your mind the right environment,

740
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: it is designed to heal, just like a cut on

741
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: my arm. It will get rid of those negative emotions.

742
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: You just need to stop getting in the way.

743
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 3: That's such a That is a really brilliant explanation. Never

744
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: heard it put that way so well. It's I love

745
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 3: the idea that your mind is already designed to repair

746
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 3: and heal itself, and if it's given the right parameters

747
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: and the right set up and the right environment, it

748
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 3: will naturally find its way.

749
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

750
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: But the key part that you put there is the

751
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: pain and the discomfort is the prerequisite for a breakthrough

752
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 3: and our ability to sit in that is the part

753
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: that makes a contingent as to whether we'll actually rise

754
00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: above from it.

755
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: Yes, So I think just one other example, So I

756
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: want you all to think about when you get food poisoning,

757
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: what does your body do It feels nauseous, I'm going

758
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: to vomit the nausea and vomiting is doesn't feel good,

759
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: but it is healthy. And so sometimes what I'll also do,

760
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: like when my kids get food poisoning is oh wait,

761
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: I won't give them anti nausea meds unless they're in

762
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: risk of dehydration. So there are times where you have

763
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: to stop what the mind naturally does. But generally speaking,

764
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: we want the mind like, think about it for a second.

765
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: Every time you stop, if anxiety arises, your mind is

766
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: trying to get rid of it. It's trying to vomit

767
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: it out. Why does your mind keep doing that? Why

768
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: does it keep going there? Because that's the problem it's

769
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: trying to solve.

770
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go back to the ego now, sure, because

771
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: you don't want to. I didn't want you to miss

772
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: out on that pot the ego I raised because I

773
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 3: was saying that we were saying that a part of

774
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: us has to stop caring what people think in order

775
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: to even pursue this path. I'm assuming when you were

776
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: studying to become a monk for seven years, where was

777
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 3: that intentional desire coming for you?

778
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: Where was the intention of to be a monk coming?

779
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah? It was coming from the ego, right, Talk to

780
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 3: me about that. YEA, that doesn't make sense to the outside.

781
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So yeah, I mean, here's what happened

782
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: in my life. So I went to college. So growing

783
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: up I was like kind of gifted, so never really

784
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: like learned how to study. And then my parents, you know,

785
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: were like, oh, you have to be doctor Raluk. And

786
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: then I remember when I was fifteen years old. I

787
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: was at a party one day and some adult asked me, like,

788
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: what do you want to be when you grow up?

789
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: And I said I want to be a doctor. And

790
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: they were like what A, Like wow, Like you're going

791
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: to be a doctor, Like that's so amazing, right, And

792
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: so my ego loved that. I was like, oh my god,

793
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: I just say I'm going to be a doctor and

794
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: people are going to be like, wow, you have so

795
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: much potential. I loved hearing that and then but my

796
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: heart really wasn't in it. It was like ego. So

797
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: then when like I got to college, I was like, ah,

798
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: like whatever, And so then what started to have and

799
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: something weird happened. As I started to fail fell in

800
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: the video game addiction. I started to feel a lot

801
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: of shame, and then all of my friends like left

802
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: me behind. I remember I went to a Christmas party

803
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: where there was a friend of mine fro high school,

804
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: and I hadn't seen her in a few years, and

805
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing? And she's like, oh,

806
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, I just finished med school, Like I'm going

807
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: to start ophthalmology residency in like a month. She's like,

808
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 1: what are you up to? And I'm like, I'm applying

809
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: to medical school for the third year in a row.

810
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: I've been rejected an eighty times. What ended up happening

811
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: is my ego was so low or like it was

812
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: so bruised that I pulled a really interesting trick that

813
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: happens in spirituality, where I said, I'm going.

814
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: To be not material anymore. All of these materialistic people

815
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: are chasing these materials. You want to be a doctor

816
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 2: for money and fame and pride and all of this.

817
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: I'm going to be better. I'm going to let go

818
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: of materialism. I'm going to rise above you.

819
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to be swami, I'm going to be Yogi,

820
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to be great. But it was really ego,

821
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: So that's the original. So I fell in love with

822
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: it in a genuine way. But also so what kept

823
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: me there was like, this is the way that I win,

824
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: This is the way that I catch up. This is

825
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: the way that I impress people. So it took a lot.

826
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: Of both of them that way, because even exactly right.

827
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: So that's what's sneaking out the ego. It'll twist and turn.

828
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: That sort of happened for a while. Thankfully I had

829
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: some really excellent teachers. I did a lot of meditation practice,

830
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: and I kind of discovered that years later that oh,

831
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: this is actually like my ego. So that was my journey.

832
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: And then then I actually like let go of the

833
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: ego quite a bit. I stopped caring about my grades.

834
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: And we'll get to that in a second. So I

835
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: ended up getting into medical school and I tried to

836
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: take my vows. So when I was twenty one years old,

837
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: I went to my guru and I said, you know,

838
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: I want to become a monk, like can I take

839
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: my vows? And his response was really interesting. He said,

840
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: becoming a monk is about giving up your life. But

841
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: you don't have a life worth giving up. Your life

842
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: is empty, Like you haven't done anything. What are you

843
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: giving up nothing? It's an escape. So he said, go

844
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: back to the US, get a doctoral degree, and if

845
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: you still want to do it when you're thirty, we'll

846
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: take you. You can come back every summer. We'll continue

847
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: teaching you practices, you can continue learning, you can walk

848
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: that path, but we're not going to let you take vows.

849
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, fine deal. So I went back

850
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: focused on getting a doctoral degree. So I decided to

851
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: go to medical school. That's a little bit silly because

852
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: my wife wanted to be married to a doctor. I

853
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: was like dating her, so I was like, all right,

854
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: might as well, which is like so funny because you

855
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: know everyone thinks like, oh, like you have some deep No.

856
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: I was just like I got to get a doctoral degree,

857
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: and like this chick that I like wants me to

858
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: be a doctor, so like let me do that because

859
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: she's going to think that's hot. So I mean, it

860
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: was so like simple, right, So as I start really

861
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: focusing on the work, and then I think I sort

862
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: of let go of my ego. And so you kind

863
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: of talked about, you know, how do you stop caring? So,

864
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: like you said, you should care. So I care a

865
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: lot about what people think, but I don't let it

866
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: determine my identity. So people say negative things to me

867
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: all the time. I got reprimanded by the Medical Board

868
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: of Massachusetts. I think that's a good thing. I think

869
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: that's a healthy thing. I think that sometimes in life

870
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: I make mistakes, and I think sometimes in life I

871
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: behave in a non perfect way, and so I value

872
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: what people think. But I also accept that I'm not perfect, right,

873
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: So of course I'm going to make mistakes. I try

874
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: not to let it affect my sense of me. And

875
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: that's the key differentiator, because what a lot of people do.

876
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: This is the biggest mistake I think you can make,

877
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: is if you're this is what happens right, people are

878
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: like I care so much what people think, So how

879
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: do I fix that? I stop caring what people think,

880
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: and then you turn yourself into an asshole, and then

881
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: that causes lots of problems. And so the problem is

882
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: either end of the pendulum is a bad idea. So

883
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: receive what people think, also add some context to it.

884
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: Don't just take it at face value. Where is this

885
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: person's criticism coming from. Ninety percent of the criticism I

886
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: get is projection. Right, they see in me something that

887
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: they don't like, but that's not really who I am.

888
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: So accept the criticism and then also recognize that just

889
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: because someone says something about you, even if it's true,

890
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: that's not who you are. Right. It's an attribute of you,

891
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: But at your core, you're just a regular human being

892
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: trying to navigate this world doing the best that you can.

893
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: And the moment that you accept yourself is that nothing great,

894
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: but also nothing terrible. Things become way easier.

895
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like for most people following, whether they

896
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 3: call it ego or whether they call it something that

897
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: gets them the result they want. I get to marry

898
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 3: the girl I want to the guy I want, or

899
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: it gets me a promotion, it gets me some more money,

900
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 3: helps me move to the city. It almost feels like

901
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: that's a base level motivator that pretty much all of

902
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 3: us function on. Yeah, it's almost like the general operating

903
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: system of the world, which is I need to get

904
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 3: this to get this, and it ether serves you because

905
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: you get there and you get the girl, or it

906
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: doesn't serve you because you don't get it. And then

907
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 3: that's where people turn towards depression and other things as well.

908
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 3: Like that's it's almost like when your ego is not

909
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: fulfilled for what it may think, it may end up

910
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 3: moving towards being disheart and depressed and lonely.

911
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, I think ego opens the door to those things,

912
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: and there is a ton of evidence for that. And

913
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: I love your observation that this is the default way.

914
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: I think that's what That's how far physical evolution got us.

915
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: So if you look at like how human beings evolved, like,

916
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: you know, we evolved to care what people around us think, right,

917
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: So exodus from the tribe, ostracization from the tribe meant

918
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: death when we were like growing up and couldn't take

919
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: care of ourselves and things like that, so we lived

920
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: in these very tribal communities. I think society has changed

921
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: so much because in those tribal communities we cared a

922
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: lot about the judgment of other people, but we also

923
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: had a lot of baseline connection, you know. I remember

924
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: I had a friend who was like one of the

925
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: earliest streamers, and I asked him why he quit, and

926
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: he said, well, because people on the internet are assholes.

927
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: And he's like, you know, when I used to play

928
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: games in arcades, like if you're mean to everybody, no

929
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: one's ever going to play with you. But on the

930
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: internet you can be mean to anyone. There's no consequence.

931
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: So we used to have this Our brain evolved for

932
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: some amount of like caring what people think, but some

933
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: amount of default connection. People just don't give up on you.

934
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: In today's world, people are so replaceable. So those things

935
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: worked when they were both there. Now we have an

936
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: imbalance where people are so replaceable. Everybody ghosts everybody online

937
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: dating is like I can keep on. I don't have

938
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: to choose between ten people, one hundred people, a thousand people.

939
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: The number of options jay is infinite. I can keep scrolling,

940
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: keep scrolling, keep scrolling until I find what I want.

941
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: So that sort of thing has really changed. And so

942
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: now what we have to do is learn a new

943
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: way to relate to people to form our identity. And

944
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: then arguably you can talk about like this is the

945
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: limit of physical evolution, and there's a whole weird spiritual

946
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: perspective on spiritual evolution. But I do think that, like,

947
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,959
Speaker 1: this is a skill, and this is why we're seeing

948
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: an explosion of mindfulness, right, I mean it is transformative

949
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: for you, transformative for me that these concepts are what

950
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 1: you need to survive and thrive in today's world.

951
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost scary when you put it like that though,

952
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 3: where you're like, and I love that example of Yeah,

953
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 3: if you were playing a video game at an arcade, generally,

954
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: if you were decent, people would crowd around you and

955
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 3: watch and cheer you on. If you're about it's something,

956
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 3: maybe one person would walk past and laugh or make

957
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: fun of you. And now, of course that's escalated, and

958
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 3: that's what leads to learneliness because people are well, I

959
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 3: don't want to put myself out there. I don't want

960
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 3: to go on that dating app. I don't want to

961
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 3: make a video. I don't want to chase my passion

962
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 3: because actually, if I do that, there's going to be

963
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of peace people, or forget that, there's

964
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: going to be just the ten people around me, my

965
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 3: own family that disagrees with what I'm doing. And so

966
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 3: if someone's in that state right now where they're like,

967
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: I'm scared about putting myself out there from a let's

968
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 3: choose dating because you brought up dating. I'm scared of

969
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 3: putting myself out there from a dating perspective because I

970
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 3: think I'm replaceable. I'm actually scared of even believing that

971
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: real connection exists. I don't even know if there's someone

972
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 3: out there for me. How do I even begin to

973
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: work against the math and the algorithm, which feels like

974
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: it's set up against me.

975
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: This is the first time I'm going to say I

976
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: don't know. So I think dating is the one thing

977
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: I've been focused a lot on for the last year.

978
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: But in terms of what I understand and what I know,

979
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: I got lucky, so like I found my hopefully life

980
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: partner before things got really really hard, and I think,

981
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: if you're not someone, so this is the one area

982
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: where I kind of feel like I don't know. So

983
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: some of the things that I'll do, and this is why,

984
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: like I kind of make the content that I do

985
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: is you know, I made this guide to meditation, and

986
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: what the best answer I have is start to use

987
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: some of these concepts, start to internalize some of these skills.

988
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: If we look at the way in which dating in

989
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: today's world scars you, that involves hits to your ego,

990
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: that involves these things like some Scots and there's we

991
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: have a trauma guide to where we kind of go

992
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: into that. But if we kind of think about, like

993
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: why is dating so hard? This is the a sunskrit

994
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: concept of something called a some scot. So this is

995
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: kind of like a trauma. So if you kind of

996
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: think about every person that you date, you're not just

997
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 1: dating that person. You're carrying the emotional baggage of all

998
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: of your experiences. And this is why online dating is

999
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: such a mess, because if you go to date someone online,

1000
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: they're not judging you based on you. They're judging you

1001
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: based on all of their past experiences and yours and yours. Right,

1002
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: So when someone doesn't text you back, your mind attaches

1003
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: associations to that, right, like, oh, this means they're ghosting me. Well,

1004
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: why do you interpret that as ghosting? Because I've been

1005
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: ghosted before and it hurts so much. So as we

1006
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: go through life, we start accumulating baggage, and then what

1007
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: happens is we're not dealing with a person, we're interpreting

1008
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: that person. And I'm sure there are people in the

1009
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: audience who have felt this, where people don't judge you

1010
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: for you, they look at some tiny fraction of you

1011
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: and they inject all of their negative experiences with people

1012
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: like that, all men are dangerous, all women you can't

1013
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: trust women. Right, So where do these generalizations come from?

1014
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: And we see this so much, get this kind of

1015
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: indoctrination using social media, But the root, the psychological injury

1016
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: is there. And so the best thing that I know

1017
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: how to do is teach people. Let's give you a

1018
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: course in yourself. This is how you work. And that's

1019
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: really what I learned in India when I was here

1020
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: in the United States, They'll teach me about physics, They'll

1021
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: teach me about chemistry. No one could explain to me.

1022
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: I want to wake up at eight am, but I

1023
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: never do. I want to stop playing video games, but

1024
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 1: I can't control myself. And so as we teach people,

1025
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: like it's interesting because we have a lot of in

1026
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: cells that have been coming into our community for the

1027
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: last few years, and like they're starting to get better

1028
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: as you teach people. This is how I work, This

1029
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: is where my ego comes from. I want a relationship

1030
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: so bad that I'm going to tolerate abuse because I'm

1031
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: scared of loneliness. I would rather be abused than alone.

1032
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: So once you start to understand these things about yourself,

1033
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: once you start to dissolve your ego a little bit,

1034
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 1: once you start to realize what your s scars are,

1035
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: what is the emotional baggage that you carry around that

1036
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: sabotages all of your interactions. And the way that you

1037
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: know this happens is because the same crap keeps happening

1038
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: to you over and over again. This person takes advantage

1039
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 1: of you. This person takes advantage of you. This person

1040
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: takes advantage of you. That's because you were sending out

1041
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: a signal that they are picking up on, because they

1042
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: test boundaries. They'll treat you a little bit inappropriately and

1043
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: you'll take it, or they detect that you're a people

1044
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: pleaser and that you don't. You can't tolerate someone being upset.

1045
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: This is one of the huge, one of the biggest

1046
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: things that I think people we've trained people to do

1047
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: is tolerate. People have now become intolerant of the dissatisfaction

1048
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: of others. If somebody doesn't like me, I can't handle

1049
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: that anymore. And so as you start to realize some

1050
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: of these patterns, then I think you form yourself into

1051
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: a better human being. And then fingers crossed, it's up

1052
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: to karma or God or the universe or whatever or

1053
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: the algorithm. But I think the best thing that I

1054
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: know how to tell people is turn yourself into the

1055
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: healthiest human you can and then the rest of it

1056
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: is kind of out of your control.

1057
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually find that approach quite refreshing, and I

1058
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 3: think it's true. You just get a better radar, you

1059
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: get a better ability to spot frequency. And I don't

1060
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 3: mean on a spiritual level, I just mean on a

1061
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 3: general human level. Like you just said, you set up

1062
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 3: your boundaries better. You have better barriers, you have better

1063
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: filters early on. You don't allow someone with bad behavior

1064
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 3: to last longer than they should. Absolutely, and all of

1065
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: those things save you from wasting time and energy. And

1066
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,959
Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things is you don't

1067
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: allow your old kind of a Hollywood Romance Disney version

1068
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 3: that was programmed into you to rerun the program every

1069
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 3: time it feels that way. So I think so much

1070
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 3: of this goes back to that same thing. It's like,

1071
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 3: how do you not let that old circuitry take over again,

1072
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 3: even if you've learned all these new principles and you're

1073
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: meditating and your mindful and all this stuff, but it

1074
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 3: can just flip back yep, because it's so hardwired and

1075
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: that ultimately sometimes you see people who are doing all

1076
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,959
Speaker 3: the right work, but they meet someone that they found

1077
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 3: attractive traditionally and then everything's gone out of the window. Yeah.

1078
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: So I think it's really uncomfortable. It's a beautiful example

1079
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: because you kind of do everything that you're supposed to do,

1080
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: but you never do the one thing you need to do.

1081
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1082
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: I see this all the time in my patients, and

1083
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: you offered I think the best example, which is you

1084
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: find someone that you're attracted to, and what a lot

1085
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: of people need to do is start looking at people

1086
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: that are not attracted to. Don't just accept that attraction,

1087
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: because when you follow that kind of attraction, it gets

1088
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: you back into the cycle. I'm going to meditate and

1089
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this,

1090
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: but then this kind of person shows up and I'm

1091
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: going to make the same damn mistake again. Right, So

1092
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: it feels so counterintuitive. I think another thing, Like, so

1093
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: sometimes my patients will come in we'll talk about, you know,

1094
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: dating and relationships, and they'll be like, you know, but

1095
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: but it sounds like, doctor k You're saying I shouldn't

1096
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: be myself, and I'm like, yeah, you should. I think

1097
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: being yourself. I know this sounds kind of weird, but

1098
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 1: let me explain, being yourself is one of the worst

1099
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: things that you can do. Like what created this version

1100
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: of you? A lot of unconscious programming, a lot of

1101
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: social conditioning, a lot of trauma. Right, all of these

1102
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: things have turned you into the current version of you.

1103
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: So I think the real you is way more formless

1104
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: and ego lists and all that kind of stuff we

1105
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: actually need to dismantle. Don't just be this set of patterns.

1106
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: That's what they oftentimes mean. They say, like, you know,

1107
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: if you can't handle me at my worst, you don't

1108
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 1: deserve me at my best. So I'm going to continue

1109
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: acting at my worst. This is what we tell people nowadays.

1110
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: I think that's a terrible idea, and we wonder why

1111
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: there's such a dating and mating crisis when everyone's like,

1112
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm just going to be me. If you don't like me,

1113
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: you can move on. I'm going to move on too.

1114
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: Everyone is replaceable. I don't need to change, right, So

1115
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: I think we need to take a step back from

1116
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 1: that and try to really turn yourself into the best

1117
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: human being that you know how to be, and then

1118
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: I think things will turn around, which is what I

1119
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 1: see pretty consistently.

1120
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, at least you have the tools. Yeah, like

1121
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 3: you said, they may not, they may not solve all

1122
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 3: your problems, but at least you have the tools to

1123
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 3: know what to do with it. What do you what

1124
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: do you think it means? You talk so much about masculinity,

1125
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 3: which I really appreciate because I think it's an area

1126
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 3: that the country as a whole that we both live

1127
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 3: in is dealing with right now. Yeah, the world's dealing

1128
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: with it, for sure. What does it even mean to

1129
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 3: be a man right now? I don't know? Yeah?

1130
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean, I I don't.

1131
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's confusing people, I guess is the question.

1132
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I I mean I don't prescribe so masculinity.

1133
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: My understanding of, like the scientific or literature definition is

1134
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: like it's like the set of you know, behaviors and

1135
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: expectations that we put on men that's not that's not

1136
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: the lens that I work. So if you ask me

1137
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: about masculinity, I'd say, like, go ask someone else. I mean,

1138
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about it, but like just to

1139
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: be clear, you know, I'm a clinician. Yeah, so my my,

1140
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: I'm zoomed into one person at a time. So what

1141
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: I think is going on right now? You know, I

1142
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: had a really interesting video come out recently that got

1143
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: a lot of controversy about why women prefer beta males.

1144
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: So this is like a big thing where everyone's like,

1145
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to be alpha, and there's so much weird

1146
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: science that people don't understand. So as one simple example

1147
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: of like a lot of what masculinity like, everyone wants

1148
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: to be ripped. So there's a great study that looked

1149
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: at something called drive for muscularity. So this is not

1150
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: how muscular you are, but how much you want to

1151
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: be muscular. So the higher your drive for muscularity is,

1152
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: the lower you're a likelihood of entering a long term relationship.

1153
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: You can enter short term relationships, higher likelihood of divorce.

1154
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: And I think there's there's a lot of like cross

1155
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: talk where like a lot of women are saying what

1156
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: we want is like safety, not some dude who's like

1157
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 1: super cut, and so there's a lot of confusion about

1158
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: what it means to be a man. I think one

1159
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: of the reasons why there's confusion is because of sort

1160
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: of the way that men and women operate. So there's

1161
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: a part of men that focuses on intra male competition.

1162
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: So I'm going to talk a little bit about animals,

1163
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: and I don't think that translates over one hundred percent,

1164
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: so big caveat there. But if you look at sort

1165
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: of like you know, a lion pride, right, the males

1166
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: will fight amongst themselves, and then one male will rise

1167
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: to the top and then he becomes the male of

1168
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: the pride. So there's this idea that, like men will

1169
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: fight amongst each other, they'll create a hierarchy and then

1170
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: that'll make them attractive to women. And I certainly know

1171
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: that it was really weird. Once I got married and

1172
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: started wearing a wedding ring, I got way more female attention.

1173
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: So I think there's some element of that's true. But

1174
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: I think that having spent a lot of time working

1175
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: with female patients, everyone's an individual. We're not just like

1176
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: products of our biology and I think this is what

1177
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: really confuses men, is that we can fight amongst ourselves.

1178
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: But that's not actually what women want, that's not what

1179
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: they actually make their selections based off of. So I

1180
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: think a lot of masculinity right now is men trying

1181
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: to become as manly as possible in the alpha sense.

1182
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: And I think that people get super confused because like,

1183
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't translate over into happiness. And if it doesn't

1184
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: translate over into happiness, you know these dudes, like I've

1185
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: worked with so many men who like are super into

1186
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: transactional relationships because they really think that human females, that

1187
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 1: these general principles of how lions select mates will translate

1188
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: over to an individual person who has unique genetics, unique history,

1189
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: and that doesn't work. So they approach this relationship transaction

1190
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: of the will thing like, oh, all women want is

1191
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: like money. So if I approach a relationship from a

1192
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: transactional perspective, if I see a woman as just a

1193
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: biological uterus, the women who want a partnership will run away.

1194
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: The women who have enough confidence will be like, this

1195
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: guy's an asshole, they'll leave, and so all you'll be

1196
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: left with is women who also view relation ships in

1197
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: a transactional way, and then that will sort of feed

1198
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: into giving you this idea of like, Okay, this is

1199
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: all women want, because all the women who don't want

1200
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: that will never date you in the first place. So

1201
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing a lot of these like mechanisms

1202
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: at play. I think a lot of this masculinity is

1203
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: because we expect a lot from men, but as men

1204
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: are failing those expectations because I think they're unreasonable, we're

1205
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: not really giving them an alternative. So I think, you know,

1206
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: research shows that most women still want to date a

1207
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: man who makes more money than they do, but sixty

1208
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: plus percent of people who go to college are now women.

1209
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: So what's happened is men are in this really tough

1210
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: spot where the expectations from men have not changed, but

1211
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: society has changed, so we can't meet those expectations anymore,

1212
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: and so that there's this really interesting gap. And when

1213
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: people feel crushed, when they feel rejected, the ego activates.

1214
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: We fall into all of these like unhealthy behaviors like

1215
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: pornography and drugs and video games and stuff like that

1216
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: to soothe our internal environment. We don't teach boys or

1217
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: men emotional regulation skills. And so I think there's like

1218
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: just a confluence of a thousand things going on and

1219
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: men are getting like crushed and squeezed.

1220
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I appreciate. I know you're

1221
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 3: a clinician. I just find your perspective on some of

1222
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 3: these more societal challenges to be you know, great observations.

1223
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 3: And I feel similarly, it's almost like it's what we

1224
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 3: talked about. We talked about there were targets. Somehow some

1225
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 3: of those targets have remained, but they feel unmeutable yep.

1226
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 3: And then there are moving targets which you keep trying

1227
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 3: to place. I need to get more buff, I need

1228
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,479
Speaker 3: to get more ripped, I need to get more money,

1229
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 3: whatever it may be, and they become arbitrary, abstract targets.

1230
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 3: What's happening for women on the other side, because society

1231
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 3: has also changed and their desires.

1232
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're getting equally screwed. As society is changing,

1233
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: women are facing particular challenges, men are facing particular challenges.

1234
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: And one of the beautiful things we've seen in our

1235
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: community is the more that we understand that, I think,

1236
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: the better off things get.

1237
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 3: That's the conversation that needs to be.

1238
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: Had yeah, so it's beautiful. I remember a post that

1239
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: someone once made, so there was a woman who's very

1240
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: attractive who said, you know, I'm an incredibly attractive, physical,

1241
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: physically attractive woman. I feel so incredibly alone. Every time

1242
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: I meet someone. They don't see me, they don't care

1243
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: about me. They just care about the way that I

1244
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: look and things like that. So people always around me,

1245
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: but they're like using me constantly. And then the really

1246
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: funny thing is like there was an incel in our

1247
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: subreddit who was like, wow, like the way you're describing loneliness,

1248
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: that's exactly how I feel. I never image that like

1249
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: a ten out of ten attractive women could feel the

1250
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: way that I feel. And it was like a really

1251
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: beautiful moment, like of weird connection over the internet. I

1252
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 1: think one of the key things that women are struggling

1253
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: with right now is first of all, safety. So I

1254
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: think that men are getting very aggressive, men are getting

1255
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: very angry, and there's some reasons for that. I think

1256
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: that's not something that's a problem, but I think it's

1257
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 1: the only card men have to play in today's society.

1258
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: So I think their safety is kind of the number

1259
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: one priority or like the number one danger that a

1260
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: lot of like women face, and I think it's something

1261
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of men like can't understand. So I

1262
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: remember getting frustrated because I was like walking behind a

1263
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: woman and we were walking, so I was walking down

1264
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: in New York City actually, and she like turned ahead

1265
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 1: of me, and it was nighttime, but I'm like walking

1266
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,480
Speaker 1: behind her. We're walking at the same pace. And then

1267
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: you know, later on, someone kind of tells me like, oh,

1268
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: you shouldn't do that because it seems like you're following her,

1269
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: and so then they're like, what you should do is

1270
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: past her. So then I started walking really fast and

1271
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: someone else tells me, like, you should never do that

1272
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: because now you're like it seems like you're walking fast,

1273
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: you're getting you know, you're getting closer to her. So

1274
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: then it's like, what am I supposed to And they're like,

1275
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: you should cross the street. And then I crossed the street,

1276
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: but then like.

1277
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: Then you go run over.

1278
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: I didn't get run over, but then there's another woman

1279
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 1: on the other side of the street. It's like because

1280
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: it turns out, but I'm just like like zig zag

1281
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 1: zagging back and forth. So but I think the reason

1282
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: that they feel this way is because they things are unsafe,

1283
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of men feel like they women don't

1284
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: give them a chance. And it's kind of like, imagine

1285
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: that a third of the people that walk into your

1286
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: store are going to steal from you. How would you

1287
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: relate to that. I think a lot of men just

1288
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: don't understand the statistics around how easy it is to

1289
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: become a victim. If you're a woman in this world,

1290
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: you can become a victim as a man too. I

1291
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: don't think we take you know, cases of male sexual

1292
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: assault victims, even by women and teachers and things like that.

1293
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: We don't take that seriously, which is a real problem.

1294
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: But I think that's one thing that they're really struggling with.

1295
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: I think another thing that they're really struggling with is

1296
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: that there is a lack of good men that women

1297
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: are looking for partnership. They're looking for companionship, and a

1298
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: lot of men have become angry. And this is where, like,

1299
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, people will say, like, we blame them. I

1300
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: think that's the big mistake that we make. I think

1301
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: the reason that so many men are struggling right now

1302
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: is because they're the one demographic that we as a

1303
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: society don't help so the one thing that hasn't changed

1304
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: this is maybe the most damaging thing, is we expect

1305
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: men to solve their own problems. So sixty percent of

1306
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: people who go to college or women where the male

1307
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: only scholarships. We don't want, we don't need those because

1308
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: men have privilege. And I think this is what's really

1309
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: scary is you know, I see this a lot because

1310
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: I'll have CEOs come into my office and then like

1311
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: I'll go and work in jail, and right, most of

1312
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: the people in jail are men. And so when we

1313
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: talk about male privilege, which is real, the key thing

1314
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: is like it affects men, some men a lot, but

1315
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't affect others. So the majority of workplace injuries,

1316
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, things like that, like that, those are all men.

1317
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: And so I think that we need to sort of

1318
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: stop thinking about, yes, male privilege exists, but it may

1319
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: be insufficient to compensate. And this is how people think.

1320
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 1: They think that if there's privilege, that means that there

1321
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: isn't hurt, right, but like it, those things don't even out.

1322
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 1: One thing I appreciate about medicine is things are very multifactorial.

1323
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of variables here and just because you're

1324
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: rich doesn't mean that like that has great advantages. But

1325
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: if you get cancer, you still have cancer. It's not

1326
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: like being rich cancels out cancer. It may help in

1327
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: a very significant way, which unfortunately I've seen. There's some

1328
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: degree of like connection there, but one doesn't replace the other.

1329
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, And I think you took it to the

1330
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,439
Speaker 3: high ground there, which I really appreciate, which is that's

1331
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 3: the compensation. And that's why I asked about both. The

1332
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 3: conversation that needs to be had is how do we

1333
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 3: just understand each other better because generally what we find,

1334
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 3: and it's easier because it's clickbait, gets more views, gets

1335
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 3: more attentions, is the small echo chambers of one or

1336
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 3: the other. That we could be sitting here as a

1337
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 3: conversation as men having a conversation about how women have

1338
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 3: let us down, or we could be having a conversation

1339
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: about how men are terrible, because then that makes us

1340
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 3: look like better men, and both are not helpful for

1341
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 3: society because we're just going to sit on the opposite

1342
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 3: sides of the bridge and just point fingers.

1343
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, So I think that you know

1344
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: that's what happens, is like that's literally what we see

1345
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 1: is like then, you know, male only spaces will highlight

1346
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: how women are saying that men are all trash and them.

1347
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 3: And men need to make seven figures or whatever. Yeah.

1348
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 1: Right, so everyone's just pointing the finger at each other,

1349
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: and I think I think you're spot on that. What

1350
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: we really try to do is just understand, yeah, sort

1351
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: of recognize that every human being doesn't matter if you're

1352
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: a man, it doesn't matter if you're a woman. You

1353
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: have a unique set of advantages, you have a unique

1354
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: set of challenges. Let's understand who you are. Let's give

1355
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: you the basic set of skills of self understanding, dissolving

1356
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: your ego, emotional regulation, and if you like work on

1357
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: this stuff. I think that's the best way is to

1358
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: become a healthy human, an independent human. I think that

1359
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,440
Speaker 1: sets you up for the best kind of relationship.

1360
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 3: I think that speaks to a big issue right now.

1361
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 3: I'd love to know how you work with people on this,

1362
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 3: because it's a big part of self understanding. Is there's

1363
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 3: such a challenge we have with raising the mind from

1364
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 3: judgment to understanding. It's so much easier to judge, blame,

1365
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 3: point fingers, shift responsibility to make sense of someone through

1366
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 3: very little amounts of information to have a projection on them.

1367
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 3: How do we encourage How do you encourage your clients?

1368
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 3: How do you encourage your patients and people you meet

1369
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,759
Speaker 3: to rise from judgment to understanding In a world where

1370
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 3: we don't have time, we don't have energy for that,

1371
01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 3: it requires so much more effort.

1372
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know about time, but it does require

1373
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 1: more energy, and it does require more effort until you

1374
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: learn how to do it. So I once had a

1375
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: patient who I was in training at the time. They

1376
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,440
Speaker 1: were an adolescent and they had all kinds of behavioral problems.

1377
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 1: So this is a kid who would start fights, would

1378
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: smear feces all over the bathroom at school, and like

1379
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,799
Speaker 1: what everyone does. This is so sad. But when someone

1380
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: does something really crappy, what we want to do is

1381
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: punish them. But if you want to stop that behavior,

1382
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: what you really need is compassion. So if you sort

1383
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 1: of think about judgment, judgment is like a narrowing, right,

1384
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: So I'm saying like you are bad. So there are

1385
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: a couple of things that create judgment in the brain.

1386
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: The first is activation of negative emotion. If my adrenaline

1387
01:09:55,479 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: is high or if I feel angry or afraid or anxious,

1388
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: this does something really interesting. It narrows our peripheral vision

1389
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: from one hundred and eighty degrees to thirty degrees. So literally,

1390
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: if I were angry with you right now, I would

1391
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: be zoomed in on you because you were the threat.

1392
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 1: You were the danger. The really interesting thing is that

1393
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: it does that psychologically too. We stop seeing context. When

1394
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: this person dumped me.

1395
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 3: Oh so good.

1396
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: I didn't think about what's going on in there or

1397
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 1: not even dumped. When this person said no, I don't

1398
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: want to go on a date, I didn't think about

1399
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: what's going on in their life. I didn't think about

1400
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: the way I smell. I didn't think about any of

1401
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: those things. All I see is that hurt, and it

1402
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: causes me to see red well, and then I will

1403
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: snap into judgment. And this is evolutionary, by the way,

1404
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 1: So when a tiger, when I'm like work in the

1405
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: fields and a tiger shows up, I don't want to

1406
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: be like hmm, I wonder how the tiger's feeling today.

1407
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: Is the tiger hungry? Is they not hungry? This is evolutionary.

1408
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,759
Speaker 1: Fear and anger cause us to zoom in see black

1409
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: and white and act before we think, which is the

1410
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: only way that we survive. So what we really need

1411
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 1: to do to stop judgment is to lower those emotions.

1412
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: And we see this so much with Israel, Palestine, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, men, women, right,

1413
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 1: everyone is angry. Everyone is fighting for survival. And when

1414
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,639
Speaker 1: you fight for survival, there's no room for compassion. There's

1415
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: no room for empathy, there's no room for understanding. So

1416
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: what we need to do is two things. One is,

1417
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: if someone is coming at you really hard, try to

1418
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 1: be compassionate. And this is what's really interesting. You know,

1419
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 1: it's like weird, like being trained as a psychiatrist, Like

1420
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: we get trained in this stuff formally it's really hard

1421
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: to do. But when a patient comes into my office,

1422
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 1: you know, like like you're terrible, and psychiatrists are all terrible,

1423
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: and like, you know, like I hate being here and

1424
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: I don't need to be here, and all y'all you're

1425
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: just trying to scam me, like big farm is paining

1426
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 1: you to fill people up with meds. The natural reaction

1427
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 1: is like no, they're not. No, I'm not you know, no, no, no,

1428
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: no no. But I'll be like okay, hold on a second,

1429
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,840
Speaker 1: I can see you're really upset. But tell me, like

1430
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: why you hate psychiatrists so much? Like what have been

1431
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: your experience is? I really like to understand. And when

1432
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 1: someone comes at you with hard emotional energy, if you

1433
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 1: sort of make yourself like water, if you kind of

1434
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 1: give them that space, they kind of deflate. Right. So

1435
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: if I come at you like you know, I argue

1436
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: with my wife all the time, and if I come

1437
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: at her hard, like she's done an awesome job recently

1438
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: of like really handling my anger where I would come

1439
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 1: at her hard and she would fight back, right, And

1440
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: if she comes at me hard, like I'll fight back,

1441
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: We've done a really good job of like giving each

1442
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 1: other space. But like I get you your pissed, Like,

1443
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: tell me more, let me understand, help me understand. So

1444
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,799
Speaker 1: don't respond to that negative energy with like a negative

1445
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: emotional energy. It'll narrow your view and for those that

1446
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: you judge. So, if someone is coming at you, I

1447
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: think you got to cool off a little bit, right, So,

1448
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 1: and then if someone is coming at you, try to

1449
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: be compassionate towards them. Now, this is where a lot

1450
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: of people get tripped up because they think compassion means

1451
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: giving them what they want. So sometimes people will come

1452
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: in and will be like, I need riddlin, I need

1453
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 1: adderall I need it. I need it, I need it.

1454
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: Don't you understand, Doc, If you don't give me this,

1455
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: everything's going to fall apart and things like that. And

1456
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, look, I already prescribed you once. I

1457
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 1: told you that if you lose your medication I'm not

1458
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: going to prescribe it to you again. I totally feel

1459
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 1: that these consequences are there. I'm not going to give

1460
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: you more meds, right but I recognize that doing that

1461
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 1: is going to put you in a really tough spot.

1462
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold my boundary, but with compassion. What

1463
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: else can I do? Do you want to non stimulant medication?

1464
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: Do you want to do some other things? Do you

1465
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: want me to write a letter to your professor telling

1466
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: you that your ADHD is particularly bad right now? I

1467
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: don't have to include details of your clanico history, but say,

1468
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: can you please give them an extension for medical reasons.

1469
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm happy to work with you. I'm going to hold

1470
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: my boundary, but I'm going to be as compassionate as possible.

1471
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: And what a lot of people think is that compassion

1472
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: means letting people run all over you. That's not what

1473
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: it means. So you want to be compassion, but you

1474
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: want to be stable. Now, if you are feeling judgmental,

1475
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 1: I think, take a step back, take a breath. Also,

1476
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 1: pay attention to the way that you are indoctrinating your mind. Right, So,

1477
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: if we're spending a lot of time on social media,

1478
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: if we're like spending time in echo chambers, your judgment

1479
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,639
Speaker 1: is going to be through the roof. And oftentimes if

1480
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: you are judging someone else, sit down and let them

1481
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: add their human context to your projection. You think, this

1482
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: person is doing this, and they're doing this, and they're

1483
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: like this, and they're like this, and all women are

1484
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: like this, all men are like this. No, I don't

1485
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: know about all men or all women. But this human

1486
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: being is not all of those things. There is unique

1487
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 1: human being. And as you train yourself, and it ain't easy,

1488
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: this is where doing some emotional regulation practices and things

1489
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: like that not should thee bran I am and activating

1490
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 1: your para sympathetic nervous system and stuff. We have a

1491
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:05,719
Speaker 1: guide to meditation. It's all about that kind of stuff.

1492
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: But I'm sure, you're familiar with you know, alternate hostile

1493
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: breathing and things. So as you do those kinds of

1494
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: things and you like emotionally regulators you calm down, then

1495
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 1: you'll be able to do that. But that requires a

1496
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: lot of energy and effort. Like you're spot on, reacting

1497
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 1: is really easy. One of the most draining things. So

1498
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 1: if you look at willpower as a battery, one of

1499
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: the top drainers of willpower is regulating your emotions. It

1500
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: is the most emotionally taxing thing you can do, so

1501
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: it's hard, but then you'll get better at it.

1502
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 3: That's a brilliant answer. The idea that anxiety, anger, and

1503
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 3: fear narrow your viewpoint and therefore don't give you the

1504
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 3: ability to see everything else in the context around it

1505
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 3: is such a such a useful lesson to know why

1506
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 3: that's happening and how to regulate. And I'm thinking about

1507
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 3: talking about your wife. I was thinking about some of

1508
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 3: my wife. She sent me an idea recently for a

1509
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 3: new venture that she wanted to start, and in my

1510
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 3: head all the fear and anxiety went off, and I

1511
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 3: messaged back and I was like, yeah, no, but I

1512
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 3: don't think it's gonna work, Like, you know, she just

1513
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 3: shared an idea. She's like, I'm really excited about this.

1514
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 3: And my response was like, yeah, I don't think that's

1515
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 3: gonna work. And here are all the reasons why it's not

1516
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 3: gonna work, and maybe we could do it in like

1517
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 3: five years, like all this stuff. And then again, my yeah,

1518
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 3: my wife's amazing at this, and she just called me

1519
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,600
Speaker 3: out in the most compassionate, loving way, and she was

1520
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 3: just like, hey, I was just showing something I was

1521
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 3: excited about. I wasn't saying we have to do it.

1522
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 3: I wasn't saying we need to do it. And I

1523
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 3: would have just loved for you to just at least

1524
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,600
Speaker 3: hear my idea out right, to just give me the

1525
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 3: space to say, oh, tell me about your idea, tell

1526
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 3: me what you're excited about, rather than And it's so

1527
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 3: interesting because even though I would generally naturally do that,

1528
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 3: in that moment, my anxiety. The reason why I didn't. Yeah,

1529
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 3: I'm now reflecting back was my anxiety and my fear.

1530
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 3: My there wasn't any anger, but my anxiety and fear

1531
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,560
Speaker 3: were high. Yeah, and therefore my response was not helpful.

1532
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 3: And therefore, if my wife had not been as evolved

1533
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 3: as she is, then we would have just had a

1534
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 3: full blown argument about nothing. Yeah.

1535
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 1: The one thing that really shocks me is how much

1536
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 1: yogic training and psychiatry training don't prepare me to be

1537
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: a good husband, like being a good husband and a father. Actually,

1538
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: so what.

1539
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 3: It does, Preva?

1540
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: I mean, So that's that's the crazy thing, man, I think,

1541
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: Like I thought I was like, oh, I got this

1542
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: stuff on on lockdown, you know, like I'm yogi and

1543
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm knocked at it, like great, it's going to be. No,

1544
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: it's like it's really hard. Like my wife brings out

1545
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 1: like some of my worst tendencies and I really have

1546
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 1: to work on it, and she's awesome. It's like I

1547
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: turn into a different person around her in like not

1548
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: a good way, you know. And so I think that's

1549
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: also healthy in a sense because she's not a patient

1550
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: of mine. She's not like a client or someone in

1551
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 1: a meditation class or whatever. And when I go into

1552
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: psychiatrist mode, it pisses her off a lot of course,

1553
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:58,240
Speaker 1: like oh tell me how you feel. Yeah, So I

1554
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:00,920
Speaker 1: think it's it's it's hard for everyone, myself concluded, and

1555
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 1: it's been shocking, Like how much you really have to

1556
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: train like I have to train myself like every single

1557
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: day to try to be a better husband.

1558
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think because that's I think it's so

1559
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 3: common that the person that you love the most in

1560
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,640
Speaker 3: the world sadly gets to see the worst of you,

1561
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 3: absolutely man, the totality of you, the three sixty degree

1562
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 3: view of you. And there's a beauty to that too,

1563
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 3: because you feel you can show it to them. You

1564
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 3: can't show that to anyone else. And obviously we don't

1565
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 3: want Again, I'm not encouraging or condoning physical verbal abuse

1566
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 3: in any way, and that's not what I mean. But

1567
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 3: there's a beauty in being able to show your full

1568
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 3: self to someone with the vulnerability of it, as long

1569
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 3: as it's not harming them. Yeah, and for them to

1570
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 3: help you with then for you to help them back.

1571
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 3: That's why I think that is that one relationship. I

1572
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 3: don't think anyone knows me better than my wife. Yeah,

1573
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 3: it's the only person who knows what you're doing at

1574
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 3: six am and what you're doing at midnight, and you

1575
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 3: know everything else in between, and so it's beautiful. But

1576
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 3: I wanted to touch something with you that I wanted

1577
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 3: to talk to you about actually, because I've watched so

1578
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 3: many of the interviews and I've been today's my intention

1579
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 3: and my focus has been to really mind that spiritual

1580
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 3: clinician side in you and to find some of that

1581
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 3: maybe more etherory or stuff, which is such a deep

1582
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 3: expand as well, because I think the two compliment each

1583
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 3: other so wonderfully. In your expertise, what is that spiritual

1584
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 3: evolution that's being demanded of humanity right now? When you

1585
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 3: mentioned it earlier, like we've kind of reached the peak

1586
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 3: of our material evolution based on ego development. What is

1587
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 3: the spiritual evolution that we're being invited to?

1588
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think this is where, like I got

1589
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: to start with a big disclaimer, So I think this

1590
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 1: is where, like we're talking about spiritual evolution, which is

1591
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: not clear whether this stuff even exists or a scientific perspective.

1592
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: So I may touch on studies and things like that

1593
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: on neuroscience and meditation and brain changes sort of some

1594
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:54,839
Speaker 1: evidence of this stuff, but there's a lot of stuff

1595
01:19:55,560 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: in the spiritual traditions which there's no scientific evidence for.

1596
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 1: So before I even started med school, I was in

1597
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 1: a Yeah, yet I was in a tai Chi lab,

1598
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 1: a Neuroscience ti Chi Lab at Harvard, and so we

1599
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: were trying to understand this like concept of chi or

1600
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 1: branna or life energy. And so the really interesting thing

1601
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,679
Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff is that there's no scientific

1602
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:24,480
Speaker 1: evidence that it exists. But when you do a practice

1603
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 1: that supposedly activates this stuff, it outperforms physical exercise like

1604
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 1: yoga for example, right or taichi. So we were studying

1605
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 1: tai chi and so there seems to be like something

1606
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: where like the health benefit is greater than physical exercise,

1607
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:40,480
Speaker 1: but we can't really detect.

1608
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 3: What are you measuring to know that it's greater than

1609
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 3: physical exercise.

1610
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: I mean it depends. So you know, one of my

1611
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 1: early mentors was, uh, doctor Wong has a great paper

1612
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: in the New England Journal of Medicine on tai chi

1613
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: and arthritis. So she's just measuring the improvement of arthritis

1614
01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 1: if I give tai chi, if I do exercise, and

1615
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:03,680
Speaker 1: chiese superior. So I was trying to study the mechanism

1616
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 1: of that, and the mechanism is super interesting. So I

1617
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: was in a chronic pain lab, and the really interesting

1618
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: thing about chronic pain is that it locks your brain

1619
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 1: into like one part of your body so someone who

1620
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: has chronic pain, they're always thinking about what hurts.

1621
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 3: YEA, so true.

1622
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 1: And then what happens when we do yoga tai chi

1623
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,920
Speaker 1: is that we're putting our body in different places to

1624
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: where I'm like, if I'm standing on one leg and

1625
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,360
Speaker 1: twisting myself into a pretzel, my brain is focusing on

1626
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: other parts of my body and that trains my brain

1627
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 1: to move away from the hurting part. And then once

1628
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:44,880
Speaker 1: I move away from the hurting part, then I feel

1629
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 1: it less and so the pain actually feels better. And

1630
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 1: this is also what we do mentally with yoga and stuff.

1631
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:53,719
Speaker 1: It's like, let me move away from this ruminant of thinking,

1632
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 1: let me return my attention to the breath. So you're

1633
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: literally training your brain to do what you tell it to.

1634
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 3: But it's just what you said right at the beginning,

1635
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 3: which was thinking about yourself as is paying attention.

1636
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 1: Absolutely right. So the beautiful thing about yoga and tai

1637
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:09,599
Speaker 1: chi is that they force you to observe yourself because

1638
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 1: once you stand on one leg, so you can do

1639
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: a simple like so I'll challenge everybody in your audience

1640
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 1: to just raise their arm. That's it. I just want

1641
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: them to raise their arm. And we're just going to

1642
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,440
Speaker 1: continue talking. Okay, We're just going to have a conversation,

1643
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 1: and over time, what's going to happen. You don't have

1644
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: to do that because I want to converse with you, you

1645
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 1: won't be able to converse, right, So people are going

1646
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,640
Speaker 1: to pay attention if they're still doing it, and then

1647
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: the longer we go, they're not going to be able

1648
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: to hear anything we're saying. We're forcing our attention over here,

1649
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:38,799
Speaker 1: so the change of our attention becomes really really important. Anyway,

1650
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:40,560
Speaker 1: I was talking about tai Chie and chronic pain, but

1651
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 1: you asked a question about for physical and spiritual evolution.

1652
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: So the first thing to understand is why have we

1653
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 1: stopped physically evolving? Because we started shaping our environment. So

1654
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:55,839
Speaker 1: evolution happens in order for us to adapt to our environment.

1655
01:22:56,160 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: But once I start building cars, creating air conditioning, having

1656
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: cell phones, what we are doing is we are shaping

1657
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 1: our environment to let whatever I am now continue to exist.

1658
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: This way, I don't need to grow, right if I

1659
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,600
Speaker 1: shape my environment around me. If I'm a narcissist and

1660
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 1: I surround myself by people who will say, yes, you're great,

1661
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 1: you're great, You're great, I will never need to conquer

1662
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 1: that narcissism. So I think there's a couple of things

1663
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 1: going on in terms of spiritual evolution, and those things

1664
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:30,720
Speaker 1: are somewhat reliable to completely crazy. So like take this

1665
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. So I think the first

1666
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 1: thing is that first stage of spiritual evolution is that

1667
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:38,839
Speaker 1: since we're shaping our environment in this way, our environment

1668
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: is making lots of changes to our brain and lots

1669
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:43,680
Speaker 1: of changes to our mind. So this is why we

1670
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 1: have a mental health crisis, Like it's so weird. Right.

1671
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 1: Science is progressing. We have more neuroscience papers than ever before.

1672
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: We have so many fMRI labs and things like that.

1673
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 1: Our understanding of the brain in the mind is increasing,

1674
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: but people are getting worse. So the next stage of

1675
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 1: evolution that we need in your own life, I use

1676
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 1: the word loosely but maybe not so much, but is

1677
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: actually like evolving your mind, right, And I know that

1678
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 1: sounds kind of weird, like evolving your brain, like learning

1679
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 1: how to change yourself, which is what evolution is to

1680
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: survive and thrive in this level of the world around us.

1681
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: So this starts with stuff like ego. Like we talked

1682
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: about emotional regulation not letting these su scars or emotional

1683
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 1: baggage pile up. You have to do a ton of

1684
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:31,920
Speaker 1: mental training to survive in today's world. Then there's like

1685
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 1: other weird things going on. So like the other weird

1686
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 1: stuff is like when you start talk to talk more

1687
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 1: about these spiritual traditions, so weird stuff. There's a study

1688
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: that was done on DMT that ninety two percent of

1689
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 1: DMT users will encounter other worldly beings. Now we have

1690
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 1: no scientific evidence of this, except I think this is

1691
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of could be argue to scientific evidence. I'm not

1692
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: saying it's it's it's complete evidence. But now what we

1693
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 1: have is we have something like a telescope. If I

1694
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 1: like look through a microscope. If I look through a

1695
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: microscope and I see a lot of bacteria, you can't

1696
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: see that with the naked eye. But if I use

1697
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 1: this technology, I can see something that my normal perception

1698
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: cannot allow me to see. So I think what we're

1699
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:22,560
Speaker 1: starting to do with meditation is this is a spiritual technology,

1700
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: and there are some meditation techniques that will give you

1701
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: insight into your past lives. That has been very helpful

1702
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: for some of my patients with trauma that they have

1703
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 1: this trauma that doesn't come from this life. It actually

1704
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 1: seems like it sort of comes from past life. I

1705
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 1: can go into detail. I know it's unbelievable, but there's

1706
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,519
Speaker 1: a great researcher out of the University of Virginia who's

1707
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,320
Speaker 1: been looking at like past life research. Occasionally some crazy

1708
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: scientists will get into the stuff. So I think that

1709
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 1: we are sort of being able to detect things that

1710
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 1: are kind of beyond it. And I think this is

1711
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: where things get kind of weird. But like, it's so strange.

1712
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: But if I was talking to a bunch of my

1713
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: friends who are neuroscientists cert neurologists, and I was asking them,

1714
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 1: what proof do we have that thoughts exist? From a

1715
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: scientific perspective, we have none. We can't detect thoughts right

1716
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: we can what is an fMRI or an EEG detect.

1717
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:17,160
Speaker 1: EEG detects electrological activity in the brain, fMRI detects blood float.

1718
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: Neither of those things are thoughts. So it's kind of weird,

1719
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: but we have no proof of the existence of thoughts.

1720
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: So I was trying to figure out, Okay, what's going on?

1721
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,880
Speaker 1: Then scientifically, some people think it's like imagination. I think

1722
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,680
Speaker 1: what's going on is that there's a certain realm of

1723
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 1: human experience which we can't detect with an instrument yet.

1724
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 1: So this is subjective experience, it's consciousness, it's thinking, and

1725
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:44,760
Speaker 1: so I think that we don't have a measurement of consciousness.

1726
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is where

1727
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people, I think, disagree with me. So

1728
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 1: some people say, since we can't detect it scientifically, that

1729
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 1: means it doesn't exist. I think that human beings can

1730
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,759
Speaker 1: observe it. It's a conserve human experience. Everyone can observe

1731
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: their own thinking. I think it exists. We just haven't

1732
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 1: developed the ruler for consciousness yet. So the other area

1733
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 1: of spiritual evolution is to evolve your consciousness. So to

1734
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 1: take your conscious experience, use some of these more esoteric

1735
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: meditation techniques, which is usually how this is done, like Kundalini,

1736
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:20,479
Speaker 1: sadna and stuff like that. So as you do these

1737
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 1: weird kind of like jukras, sadhnas and stuff like that,

1738
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:27,040
Speaker 1: you will start to have it's hard to describe a

1739
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: change in your subjective experience of the world. So as

1740
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 1: I move through the world, right, I try, but I

1741
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 1: also like start to see, Okay, bad stuff happens to me,

1742
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm not so worried about it anymore. This is a

1743
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 1: negative garma. That's sort of the logical way to explain it,

1744
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 1: but that's not how it feels on the inside. So

1745
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 1: I recognize that there are periods of my life where

1746
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:49,680
Speaker 1: like negative garments are manifesting. So I'm like, let them come,

1747
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: let them come, let them come, like I'm going to

1748
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 1: work through it. I have to work through this stuff.

1749
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,200
Speaker 1: There's some kind of bad energy out there, and I

1750
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: realize how indefensible that is, but I really think that's

1751
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: what's going on. And so a lot of people are

1752
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: needing to evolve. They're hungry for this evolution. They're hungry

1753
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 1: for like this world around me. Even if we talk

1754
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:13,440
Speaker 1: about growth and goals and ambitions, this is not satisfying.

1755
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 1: They need to grow in a different dimension. And I

1756
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 1: don't mean that like, oh there's like alternate. I mean

1757
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,559
Speaker 1: like there is material growth, there is professional growth, there's

1758
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 1: academic growth, and there is growth just within you. To

1759
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,880
Speaker 1: be able to experience different kinds of things, to be

1760
01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 1: able to understand like how you connect to other people.

1761
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 1: That's a level of spiritual evolution. And when I work

1762
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: with my patients, what I oftentimes you know, will start

1763
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: with is like meditations to help them treat depression. But

1764
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 1: eventually it's like, Okay, if you're depressed because you know,

1765
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 1: you think you're a loser, let's see if we can

1766
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 1: cultivate an experience of cosmic connectedness. And if you have

1767
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 1: that experience, and this is also what we know from psychedelics.

1768
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: You can use a psychedelic that's not healing. Specifically, you

1769
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 1: can ask someone what happened to you when you were

1770
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:07,520
Speaker 1: using the psychedelic If they had an ego death experience,

1771
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 1: that correlates with treatment improvement, and treatment refractory depression, that

1772
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 1: improvement that correlates with improvement in trauma. But if all

1773
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 1: you see is colors and synesthesia and stuff like that,

1774
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: clinical symptoms don't appear to get better. And this is

1775
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 1: what we know from our traditions, right, is like, as

1776
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 1: you have these higher senses of consciousness, the ahumgaara, the

1777
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:33,639
Speaker 1: ego starts to dissolve your atma blends with the cosmic soul,

1778
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 1: and like we can sort of duplicate that in a

1779
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,680
Speaker 1: lab now, at least the subjective experience of it. Then

1780
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 1: that gets to the question of is that subjective experience

1781
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 1: real or not. I think it's absolutely functionally useful. We

1782
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 1: can detect the change, we can detect the health benefit

1783
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 1: in it. So I think that spiritual evolution that we're

1784
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,960
Speaker 1: seeing is like at the level of consciousness, and hopefully

1785
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: I've tried to explain that in a somewhat mechanistic or

1786
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 1: technical way.

1787
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fascinating.

1788
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 1: I also think this is where I get weird. I

1789
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: think it's weird. But if you look at the world,

1790
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 1: we're all moving this direction, like meditation is exploding. Right.

1791
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: We have, like you know, champions of it like you,

1792
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 1: and you've spread a lot of knowledge about it. Like

1793
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 1: something weird is going on. Where from a scientific perspective,

1794
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,560
Speaker 1: it makes sense that we have all these like technology

1795
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 1: things and we need some kind of antidote to that.

1796
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 1: From a neurochemical perspective, I think that makes sense. But

1797
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: I do feel like we're all being called to meditate more.

1798
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 3: It goes back to that same point that you brought

1799
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 3: up earlier. We're all being called to do this, but

1800
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 3: then we struggle to do it, and we can't. We try.

1801
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 3: Once we let go, we know we need to work out.

1802
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 3: Everyone knows they need ten thousand steps today, we don't

1803
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:57,600
Speaker 3: get ten thousand steps today. Everyone knows they need to

1804
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 3: eat better, but we still, you know, making all the

1805
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 3: phossephood companies rich and wealthy. What's the disconnect there?

1806
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 1: So I think the biggest disconnect is information doesn't change behavior. So, like,

1807
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, I had a patient once. This was bad,

1808
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:17,880
Speaker 1: But I had a patient once who was I was

1809
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,719
Speaker 1: a medical student. And so they come in and they smoke,

1810
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 1: and I try to tell him, hey, so like smoking

1811
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:25,759
Speaker 1: will give you lung cancer, smoking will give you heart disease.

1812
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:27,760
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, doc, I know. And I was like,

1813
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 1: I'm a medical student. He's like yeah, I know, but

1814
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,720
Speaker 1: you're a doc. Basically, it's like, yeah, Doc, I know.

1815
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll stop, I'll quit. I promise. Comes in

1816
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 1: a month later, as you're smoking. Oh yeah, I know,

1817
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to. It's not working. And I was like, okay,

1818
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 1: maybe he wants some medication for that, and he's like, sure, doc,

1819
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 1: give you the medication. Comes in a month later. Are

1820
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 1: you taking the macage? Not really? Okay, let's give you Like,

1821
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:48,920
Speaker 1: let's try a nicotine gum, Like, let's try this, he's

1822
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 1: not doing it, not doing it, not doing it. So

1823
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 1: I was, you know, working with my preceptor, and I

1824
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 1: read some about addiction and things like that, and I realized, like,

1825
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:59,680
Speaker 1: you have to you have to motivate him. And so

1826
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 1: next time he comes in, I take a different approach.

1827
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, so tell me about yourself, tell me about

1828
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: you know, what you're excited about. And he's like, you know,

1829
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 1: I love being a father. I have three daughters, and

1830
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'll die happy the moment that the last

1831
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,320
Speaker 1: one is married because I know they're being taken care

1832
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 1: of and it's going to be such a great day day,

1833
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: Like my oldest daughter is married, it was awesome, Like

1834
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:20,559
Speaker 1: walking her down the aisle was one of the best

1835
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: experiences I've ever had. And I asked him, oh, great

1836
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 1: when you're when your second daughter gets married, do you

1837
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 1: want to be wheeling an oxygen tank behind you? And

1838
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 1: do you want to be pushed in a wheelchair when

1839
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 1: your third daughter gets married? And he was like no, right,

1840
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 1: Like I said something that was so mean. I was like,

1841
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:40,719
Speaker 1: that's what's going to happen if you don't stop smoking,

1842
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 1: And so that was brutal. I wouldn't recommend it. I

1843
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 1: was still learning. I was still a medical student. But

1844
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:50,880
Speaker 1: I think a lot of behavioral change comes from like

1845
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 1: motivation within. You have to have a good reason to

1846
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 1: do it, not in like an intellectual like, oh this

1847
01:32:56,320 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 1: is like I'm not going to get cancer forty years

1848
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 1: from now. Your brain doesn't understan answer. This is what

1849
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:03,439
Speaker 1: people don't get when I tell you, like, do this

1850
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 1: or you'll get cancer. How does your brain know what

1851
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 1: cancer feels like? So if you touch a hot pan,

1852
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: your brain knows they're like okay, and then it's hard

1853
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:18,040
Speaker 1: to touch a hot man. But how does your brain

1854
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: know this like hypothetical thing. It doesn't. So information goes

1855
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 1: into this one part of our brain that really doesn't

1856
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 1: shape our behavior. What shapes our behaviors emotions. So if

1857
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: you think about when you get angry, then everyone's telling

1858
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,600
Speaker 1: you not to act. Stop, slow down, don't act that

1859
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:36,960
Speaker 1: we need to get angry you feel like acting. So

1860
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: the first thing is that we need to focus more

1861
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 1: on finding like our right like the right emotional reason,

1862
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 1: like what is the reason for your change? What really

1863
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 1: drives you to change. The more you connect with that,

1864
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:52,879
Speaker 1: then the information will become useful. There's another really interesting.

1865
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:56,519
Speaker 3: Man, that's awesome. Yeah, it's so great.

1866
01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:58,439
Speaker 1: One other thing that I would say is a lot

1867
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: of people don't realize. I don't know if this is sense,

1868
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:03,800
Speaker 1: but there's something called ambivalence, which is when we're internally conflicted,

1869
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:07,320
Speaker 1: and anytime somebody wants to change, there's a part of

1870
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: us that wants to change, but there's a part of

1871
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: us that doesn't want to do So when we want

1872
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:14,519
Speaker 1: to change, I tend to think about the benefit. So

1873
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 1: in this moment, my brain is telling me like, oh, like,

1874
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:20,000
Speaker 1: we want to get let's get healthy. So you're thinking

1875
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: about the benefit when you start, but as you start,

1876
01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: you see the cost. So when I go to the gym,

1877
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,559
Speaker 1: all it is is suffering. And so then what happens

1878
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:32,320
Speaker 1: is like the cost gets really big in my mind

1879
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:34,360
Speaker 1: because I'm reaping the cost. Now, I'm feeling the cost.

1880
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:36,679
Speaker 1: Now this is really hard and the benefit is far away.

1881
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 1: So when I get started, I think about the goal,

1882
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 1: I think about the benefit, but I'm not really appreciating

1883
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 1: the costs. When I actually do it, I feel the cost,

1884
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: but don't think about the benefit. So one of the

1885
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:51,800
Speaker 1: biggest mistakes that you can make is thinking about the

1886
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 1: benefit when you want to do something interesting. So instead

1887
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 1: what you should do is actually focus on the cost.

1888
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 1: Tell yourself, Okay, this is going to be hard, right,

1889
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 1: Like it's going to suck going to the gym and

1890
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,639
Speaker 1: accept the cost upfront. Do I want this thing? Yes,

1891
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 1: but you need to balance it so when we have

1892
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: high expectations, we're going to have low follow through. And

1893
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:18,280
Speaker 1: when we have low expectations, if you say to yourself, look,

1894
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 1: this is going to suck, I'm going to do it anyway.

1895
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:23,160
Speaker 1: That's the approach you should take. Now a lot of

1896
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 1: people will say, like, but I don't do it anyway,

1897
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 1: And that's where you need to really dig for a reason.

1898
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that reason being the idea that emotion shifts behavior

1899
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 3: and figuring out what that emotion is is so critical.

1900
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 3: Like I'm thinking about most of my spiritual aspirations come

1901
01:35:42,160 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 3: from a deep sense of gratitude, Like that's the emotion.

1902
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 3: It's like a gratitude to my teachers, the people that

1903
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 3: have invested so much time into my life when I

1904
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 3: didn't deserve it, people that are far more enlightened and

1905
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 3: far more well read, and people have actually dedicated their

1906
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 3: life who found it? You just that I found so

1907
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 3: useful and we're so kind to give me time and energy.

1908
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 3: That's kind of what it carries from, because I'm like, yeah,

1909
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:11,479
Speaker 3: and then there are certain other things which coming back

1910
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 3: to health. Yeah, knowing that hey, all my friends are

1911
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 3: getting cancer at forty or fifty years.

1912
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:19,200
Speaker 1: Old or oh my god, is that actually happening?

1913
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 3: A lot of them are sadly sadly yeah, yeah, really

1914
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 3: sad truth to recognize. Oh yeah, I would like to

1915
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 3: if I can avoid that. What's that going to take?

1916
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 3: What does that mean? What do I need to shift?

1917
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,880
Speaker 3: What do I need to you know? And so then

1918
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:39,440
Speaker 3: there's certain motivator is like gratitude that are like these beautiful,

1919
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,479
Speaker 3: wonderful feelings. And then, like you said with the oxygen

1920
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 3: tank example, and the wheelchair, there's certain emotions that are

1921
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:52,599
Speaker 3: much more fear based, yeah, and worry field and both

1922
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,000
Speaker 3: are useful for different things.

1923
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't rely on fear.

1924
01:36:57,280 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's a good one to get going. Yeah,

1925
01:36:59,240 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 3: good one to get going.

1926
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I think it's it's it's so

1927
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: interesting I wonder if like, so this is you know,

1928
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 1: when I work with people, I find first of all

1929
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,480
Speaker 1: that that's really common that there's some things, some emotional

1930
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 1: valances that they can really connect to that get them moving.

1931
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 1: And so usually what we try to do is connect that. Right, So,

1932
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,599
Speaker 1: is there some way to tap into gratitude about you've

1933
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: been given this body and you know, like you know,

1934
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 1: like what do you owe with this body? Or something

1935
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:26,559
Speaker 1: like that. So I think if you sort of think

1936
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 1: about the emotions that really get you going, and for

1937
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 1: a lot of men, like for example, it's anger, which

1938
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: can actually be good, right, channeling that anger oftentimes that

1939
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 1: will help people bridge the gap of if there's one

1940
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:39,559
Speaker 1: thing that does get you going, can you tie that

1941
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 1: to a thing that you want to do?

1942
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:44,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. I've always broken it down as

1943
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:48,160
Speaker 3: the in the buggle to get to the modes of

1944
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:51,320
Speaker 3: material nature are there, and so you have motive ignorance,

1945
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 3: motive passion, motor goodness, and pure goodness. So Thomas Rogerson Suburne,

1946
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 3: I've always seen that angers like a tum us motivat. Yeah,

1947
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:01,439
Speaker 3: it's like it's it's it's not ideal, but it gets

1948
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,479
Speaker 3: you going. Yeah, absolutely, And then Rogers is more of

1949
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 3: a motive passion is kind of like having a goal,

1950
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 3: having a desire or having an ambition like I want

1951
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 3: to get a six pack, I want to be a millionaire, whatever.

1952
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:14,519
Speaker 3: But then above that is goodness and pure goodness, which

1953
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,880
Speaker 3: is more like love, gratitude, all these emotions that our

1954
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 3: overall have a much more healthier impact and have more

1955
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 3: longevity to them. Yeah, they don't die when you get there.

1956
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:25,680
Speaker 1: The really interesting thing is that I think if you

1957
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 1: use satviic emotions, your material success could be way lower.

1958
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.

1959
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 1: Right, So as you start operating from love and as

1960
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 1: you become a little bit more detached, you may not

1961
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,599
Speaker 1: achieve as much, but you'll be happier.

1962
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:42,559
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. Whereas if you have a lot of motive

1963
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:45,200
Speaker 3: passion in your life, yeah, you'd be much more successful, but.

1964
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 1: You also have ulcers.

1965
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I really like

1966
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 3: the idea about just going back to that mental training

1967
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 3: piece around. Yeah, the emotion. What's at the root of

1968
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 3: our addiction to pornography right now, Like, what's in the

1969
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 3: root of that from a coal point of view, or

1970
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:05,040
Speaker 3: at the.

1971
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 1: Root is meaninglessness. So this is what a lot of

1972
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 1: people don't realize. They think that pornography addiction is about sexuality.

1973
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 1: They think it's about being horny. They think it's about lust.

1974
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 1: It's not lust. So you know, one of the top

1975
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:23,160
Speaker 1: variables is too One of the top variables for addiction

1976
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: to pornography is lack of purpose, lack of meaning. So

1977
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 1: when I was designing our coaching program, I was seeing

1978
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of new problems, but they have

1979
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:35,520
Speaker 1: these roots that are a little bit different. So in psychiatry,

1980
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 1: they don't teach us how to find purpose. But our

1981
01:39:38,760 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 1: initial pilot's study of one four hundred and fifty three

1982
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 1: people found a sixty eight percent increase in purpose and

1983
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: direction in life at twenty weeks. So that's also where

1984
01:39:48,479 --> 01:39:49,880
Speaker 1: you got to stick with it for a while. Doesn't

1985
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,600
Speaker 1: happen overnight. So I think what's going on is to

1986
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:57,240
Speaker 1: be like blunt about it. When you are addicted to porn,

1987
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 1: you got to have a reason to not watch. So

1988
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: what happens with pornography addiction. A lot of people don't

1989
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,680
Speaker 1: realize what this looks like. They think it's like automatically

1990
01:40:06,720 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 1: associated with lust and masturbation. Oftentimes it's on the second screen.

1991
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 1: So we're seeing a big explosion of it with like

1992
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:15,799
Speaker 1: work from home, people will really use it to regulate

1993
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:18,479
Speaker 1: their emotions. That's really the number one reason. So if

1994
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: we think about sex and what it does to our brain,

1995
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,719
Speaker 1: if I'm feeling anxious, if I'm a man biological male,

1996
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: and if my testosterone is intact and stuff like that,

1997
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 1: you know we will oftentimes if we get sexually activated,

1998
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 1: all of our negative emotions go away. And it's such

1999
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:40,679
Speaker 1: a powerful activator. It's like the most powerful biological way

2000
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:45,680
Speaker 1: to shut off your negative emotional circuitry. Happens immediately like

2001
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:47,719
Speaker 1: once you get horny, right, and a lot of guys,

2002
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:49,400
Speaker 1: and sorry if this is a bit vulgar, but you

2003
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 1: know we'll experience this post not clarity, and literally what

2004
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 1: happens in your brain is when these sexual circuits activate,

2005
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 1: they suppress everything else, including our risk assessment circuitry, which

2006
01:41:03,400 --> 01:41:05,840
Speaker 1: is why we make really bad decisions. They shut off

2007
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:08,080
Speaker 1: everything else. They shut off your reasoning, they shut off

2008
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 1: your logic, they shut off your risk assessment, they shut

2009
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:13,200
Speaker 1: off your anxiety, they shut off your fear. So what

2010
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:17,479
Speaker 1: we're seeing is that as people become more directionless and

2011
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:22,400
Speaker 1: as their capacity to handle negative emotions decreases, they get

2012
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:28,639
Speaker 1: addicted to pornography because it's the most accessible biological tool

2013
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 1: that you can use and it doesn't involve you know,

2014
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:33,200
Speaker 1: opiates and spending money and things like that usually.

2015
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what are the negative effects of pornography anyway

2016
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 3: that we're seeing, because if someone's watching this and going, well,

2017
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:41,640
Speaker 3: it's not that bad anyway, it switches off helps me

2018
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:42,479
Speaker 3: emotionally regulate.

2019
01:41:42,600 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 1: Yes, So I think the scariest one for me is

2020
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:48,799
Speaker 1: the rise of a rectile dysfunction under the age of thirty,

2021
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:54,680
Speaker 1: so erectils. Yeah, yeah, so a rectiled dysfunction under the

2022
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:56,760
Speaker 1: age of thirty used to be five percent, right, So

2023
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: as men were in society, we tend to think like

2024
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,960
Speaker 1: as you get right, like once you have kids, once

2025
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 1: you have grandkids, like that. It doesn't work the way

2026
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 1: it used to do, right, But actually, what we're starting

2027
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 1: to see is the rate some studies suggest a rate

2028
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 1: of twenty percent of people under the age of thirty

2029
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:14,640
Speaker 1: boys men will have rectile disfunction. And the reason that

2030
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:17,120
Speaker 1: happens it's kind of also a little bit of vulgar,

2031
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:23,719
Speaker 1: but it's medical. So the hand grip strength, the PSI

2032
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:26,439
Speaker 1: the pounds per square inch of your hand can be

2033
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:29,879
Speaker 1: like one twenty one thirty. The vagina has a PSI

2034
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: of like fifteen to thirty. So literally, what the way

2035
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:37,440
Speaker 1: you define a rectile dysfunction is it is the inability

2036
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:41,680
Speaker 1: to maintain erection until the completion of the sexual act.

2037
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:46,000
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing is that when boys start using

2038
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,960
Speaker 1: pornography and masturbating at a very young age without lubrication

2039
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:53,800
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, their body gets trained for a

2040
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 1: certain kind of stimulus in order to complete the sexual act.

2041
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:03,719
Speaker 1: And when they engage in a sexual relationship there penis

2042
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:06,080
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to handle like it just just just

2043
01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 1: not enough. And then eventually they'll go at it. They'll

2044
01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: go at it, they'll go at it, they'll lose the erection,

2045
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 1: which is physiologic, and then what happens is we have

2046
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 1: all kinds of like shame associated with it, you know,

2047
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:20,280
Speaker 1: and then like once the shame kicks in, that shame

2048
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:23,479
Speaker 1: can be so powerful that the sexual drive cannot shut

2049
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 1: that down, and then you have anxiety around sex and

2050
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 1: things like that, and it can really mess up people's relationships.

2051
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:31,400
Speaker 3: What's the mental training for someone who's saying, Okay, well

2052
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 3: I want to disconnect from porn, I want to detach,

2053
01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 3: but I'm not going to find purpose tomorrow. So what's

2054
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 3: the stop gap.

2055
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 1: There is no stop gap, and you have to stop

2056
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,840
Speaker 1: thinking about things happening tomorrow. Honestly, that's where you start.

2057
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 1: So you know, our approach to pornography has three major pillars,

2058
01:43:49,400 --> 01:43:51,280
Speaker 1: and I think you have to tackle all three. So

2059
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:55,840
Speaker 1: the first is like a very standard addiction oriented structure,

2060
01:43:56,560 --> 01:43:58,840
Speaker 1: where like if you're trying to quit alcohol, you got

2061
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,559
Speaker 1: to stop going to bars. So from a structural standpoint,

2062
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 1: what I recommend everyone is that they, you know, log

2063
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 1: out of all their devices, use only one device for pornography,

2064
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,840
Speaker 1: and restrict your pornography used to like one or two

2065
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 1: hours of the day, so it has to like stop

2066
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,800
Speaker 1: infecting every part of your life. That's the first part

2067
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: we're going to kind of restrict it. The second thing

2068
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:23,880
Speaker 1: is emotional regulation. So as long as your brain requires

2069
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:28,479
Speaker 1: pornography to manage your emotional your emotions, it's you're never

2070
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 1: going to be able to quit.

2071
01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:30,600
Speaker 3: So you need to.

2072
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:34,360
Speaker 1: Develop alternate skills to manage your emotions. These can be

2073
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:37,559
Speaker 1: things like meditation practices, even going for a walk, stuff

2074
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 1: like that. One thing that I also really recommend to

2075
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:43,880
Speaker 1: people is that they give themselves time to think before

2076
01:44:44,080 --> 01:44:46,559
Speaker 1: before they go to sleep, So spend an hour of

2077
01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 1: idle time. I love pacing. We need a lot of

2078
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 1: time to process emotions. You can also do things like

2079
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: dream journals. So dreams are one of the main ways

2080
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:59,360
Speaker 1: that our brain processes emotions. So that emotional regulation is

2081
01:44:59,439 --> 01:45:01,040
Speaker 1: number two in the The third thing is finding meaning

2082
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:04,760
Speaker 1: or purpose. So watch more episodes of On Purpose with

2083
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 1: Jay Shetty. So as you develop that purpose, You're right,

2084
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:09,640
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen overnight. We see that it

2085
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,719
Speaker 1: takes about twenty weeks. That's when people weeks.

2086
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:12,240
Speaker 3: Is amazing.

2087
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's focused.

2088
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:14,680
Speaker 3: Right.

2089
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 1: So what we did is we took some of these

2090
01:45:16,280 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 1: like clinical things that used to be used to treat depression,

2091
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:24,320
Speaker 1: and we shift those the same conversational techniques exploratory techniques

2092
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 1: to finding something like purpose. And that works incredibly well.

2093
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: And then we can go into the details of you

2094
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:31,360
Speaker 1: know what that involves.

2095
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:32,680
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you that that was my

2096
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 3: next question. How do you how do you define purpose?

2097
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 3: What are you looking at in the twenty weeks? What

2098
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:37,800
Speaker 3: are you trying to get people?

2099
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2100
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,360
Speaker 1: So, so the funny thing about purpose is like, it's

2101
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:44,120
Speaker 1: not what everyone thinks it is. So the way you

2102
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:47,800
Speaker 1: find purpose is like really kind of counterintuitive. So it

2103
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:51,639
Speaker 1: actually involves, Actually I don't know what purpose is. Maybe

2104
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 1: we can ask you, But what we know is what

2105
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 1: are the scientific mechanisms. So if I take someone who

2106
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: has no purpose in life, and I take someone who

2107
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,559
Speaker 1: has purpose in life, what do they do differently? Yes,

2108
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:08,679
Speaker 1: that's what we try to change. So the first thing

2109
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:14,240
Speaker 1: is self direction. So people, as long as you, as

2110
01:46:14,280 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 1: long as life is happening to you and you are

2111
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:20,839
Speaker 1: not making choices, if you are forced to make choices,

2112
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:23,720
Speaker 1: you will feel out of direction. So this is kind

2113
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:25,800
Speaker 1: of counterintuitive, but the first thing I tell people to

2114
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,120
Speaker 1: do is start making choices. And then the first question

2115
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:30,880
Speaker 1: that they asked me is how do I know what's

2116
01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 1: right or wrong? That's not actually doesn't matter. What matters

2117
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 1: in your brain is that you choose. And the whole

2118
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 1: point this is really insidious. If you think about right

2119
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 1: or wrong, if you figure out right or wrong, you're

2120
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:47,040
Speaker 1: not making the choice. The world tells you this is

2121
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,240
Speaker 1: right and this is wrong. That's the world making the

2122
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:51,040
Speaker 1: choice for you. This is right and this is wrong.

2123
01:46:51,400 --> 01:46:53,479
Speaker 1: So forget about right or wrong and just make a choice.

2124
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:56,879
Speaker 1: I don't care what it is. Choose Macha instead, of coffee.

2125
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:59,840
Speaker 1: Put your left shoe on first instead of your right shoe.

2126
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:02,600
Speaker 1: Start brushing with your left teet or your left hand.

2127
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,560
Speaker 1: So you need to start making choices. There's a beautiful

2128
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 1: element about anxiety that we can talk about there. It'll

2129
01:47:09,400 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 1: also like drastically help your anxiety. Second thing that you

2130
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:16,759
Speaker 1: need to do is stretch your capacity. So we feel

2131
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:18,599
Speaker 1: like we have purpose in life because it's not purpose,

2132
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:21,280
Speaker 1: but this is like literally what the scientific makeup of

2133
01:47:21,320 --> 01:47:25,440
Speaker 1: purpose is stretching your capacity. So we always feel overwhelmed.

2134
01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:27,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. I want to do

2135
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:29,800
Speaker 1: the bare minimum. We're a society of people who do

2136
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:33,440
Speaker 1: the bare minimum. We're a society of people who companies

2137
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:37,400
Speaker 1: use chat, GPT, and AI to review applications. Now everyone

2138
01:47:37,479 --> 01:47:40,160
Speaker 1: is using AI to apply for jobs. It's just AI

2139
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 1: talking to AI. We're trying to do as little as possible,

2140
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 1: and we're seeing an epidemic of purposelessness. We're seeing an

2141
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 1: epidemic of pornography use. But that's because in your brain,

2142
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 1: these two things are connected. The moment you stretch your capacities.

2143
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 1: Once again, it doesn't matter what you're doing. If you

2144
01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 1: swim ten ten laps, swim eleven if you are wake

2145
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:06,200
Speaker 1: up at seven at seven o'clock every day, wake up

2146
01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 1: at six point fifty nine. This is the beautiful thing.

2147
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:12,040
Speaker 1: The content of what you do is completely irrel not

2148
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:15,240
Speaker 1: completely that's not wrong, that's wrong. But the key thing

2149
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:19,000
Speaker 1: is that you stretch your capacities. I didn't think I

2150
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:20,920
Speaker 1: was capable of this. You don't even have to succeed,

2151
01:48:21,280 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 1: you just have to stretch it. I didn't think I

2152
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 1: could do this. Turns out I was wrong. At least

2153
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:29,760
Speaker 1: I tried. When you start thinking in this way, right

2154
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:31,680
Speaker 1: when I ask someone, you know, if I like a

2155
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:36,160
Speaker 1: quick thought experiment, we're always afraid of giving it all

2156
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:39,880
Speaker 1: or all in failing. But when you give it, you're all.

2157
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 1: How do you usually feel? You can usually sleep at

2158
01:48:43,320 --> 01:48:45,320
Speaker 1: night as long as some of this stuff like ego

2159
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:47,599
Speaker 1: and stuff doesn't get in the way. Right, at least

2160
01:48:47,640 --> 01:48:50,960
Speaker 1: I tried my best. That can give you a good sense.

2161
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 1: That's a hard lesson I learned in med school because

2162
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 1: or in residencies like you know, what helps me sleep

2163
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:58,800
Speaker 1: at night is not whether the patient lives or dies.

2164
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:01,639
Speaker 1: Did I give it my all? Did I do everything

2165
01:49:01,680 --> 01:49:04,559
Speaker 1: within my power to try to help this person? And

2166
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:07,400
Speaker 1: if I did the rest is out of my hands. Yeah, right,

2167
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 1: so you have to stretch your capacities. The third thing,

2168
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 1: and this is the hardest one, relatedness, So people have

2169
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 1: to be able to see you and respond to the

2170
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: real you. It doesn't necessarily have to be positive. A

2171
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:24,680
Speaker 1: certain amount of acceptedness accepting that person is good, but

2172
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:27,080
Speaker 1: other people has to be able to see who you are.

2173
01:49:27,439 --> 01:49:29,679
Speaker 1: And that's really hard because people don't have the attention

2174
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 1: for that. Everyone's on their cell phones. So I think

2175
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 1: if you do, if you cultivate these three things, your

2176
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:36,479
Speaker 1: sense of purpose will increase in life.

2177
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 3: That's fresh. I like that. I like that you've used

2178
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:44,200
Speaker 3: what you'd see is the difference between a purposeful person

2179
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 3: and someone who doesn't have purpose to find to what

2180
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:48,240
Speaker 3: paths to travel?

2181
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I think the really confusing thing is when

2182
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:53,360
Speaker 1: people think about purpose, Like if I were to ask you, Jay,

2183
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:54,920
Speaker 1: what is your purpose? How would you answer that?

2184
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,599
Speaker 3: If you ask me what is my purpose? Yeah? So

2185
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:02,400
Speaker 3: my purpose would be to make ancient wisdom accessible, relevant

2186
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:03,679
Speaker 3: and practical for the modern birth.

2187
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:07,280
Speaker 1: Perfect right, So that's what most people think it is.

2188
01:50:07,280 --> 01:50:09,639
Speaker 1: They think it's like this thing, yeah for sure, right,

2189
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 1: But this is what I want people to understand if

2190
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,000
Speaker 1: you really think about it, how do you know that

2191
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:15,719
Speaker 1: you have purpose or you don't have purpose?

2192
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not it's.

2193
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:19,519
Speaker 1: An internal feeling. Like I wake up every day, Like

2194
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 1: my guess is you wake up and you're like, I

2195
01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:24,559
Speaker 1: have purpose. Yes, it's an internal feeling. So how do

2196
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:26,679
Speaker 1: we cultivate that internal feeling with these three things?

2197
01:50:26,840 --> 01:50:29,479
Speaker 3: Yeah? I love that. I think it's beautiful. I really

2198
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:32,479
Speaker 3: really like those three things, and they come closely to

2199
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 3: some of the things I've thought about before as well,

2200
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:36,599
Speaker 3: in I think there's a need, and your people get

2201
01:50:36,640 --> 01:50:38,960
Speaker 3: it because they're part of your community. But I think

2202
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:42,400
Speaker 3: belonging is such a first step in purpose. Like even

2203
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:44,720
Speaker 3: you know, recently, Air I took out pickleball, and I

2204
01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:47,280
Speaker 3: feel like I'm part of the La pickleball scene and

2205
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 3: I'll just walk up to a court and I can

2206
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 3: just go play with anyone. You don't have to know

2207
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 3: each other's names. I don't know what job they have,

2208
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 3: they don't know what I do, and you're playing pickaball together.

2209
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:59,000
Speaker 3: And there's a sense of belonging which makes me feel

2210
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 3: automatically link to something bigger than me. So belonging isn't

2211
01:51:02,760 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 3: a sense of I have friends. Belonging is I feel

2212
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 3: connected to something that is beyond me and beyond this person,

2213
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:11,439
Speaker 3: and I think that's such a part of purpose. The

2214
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 3: second one, which is aligns with what you're saying to me,

2215
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,519
Speaker 3: is learning. But really it's what you're saying, it's that

2216
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:21,840
Speaker 3: challenge to stretch my capability to try something new every day.

2217
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:25,080
Speaker 3: That idea of curiosity is so key to it, as

2218
01:51:25,080 --> 01:51:28,080
Speaker 3: well as a habit that this one's really important for me.

2219
01:51:28,160 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 3: It's people who feel independently useful. So now you're part

2220
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:33,640
Speaker 3: of this bigger thing, but you know what you do.

2221
01:51:33,680 --> 01:51:35,920
Speaker 3: So I'm the guy who brings the pickleballs, I'm the

2222
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 3: guy who puts the net out right, like I have

2223
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 3: a use that is unique to me.

2224
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:47,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know what's really fascinating is I love

2225
01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:50,800
Speaker 1: And I'm amazed that my guess is that you did not, like,

2226
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:53,080
Speaker 1: read a bunch of scientific literature to come up with

2227
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:53,840
Speaker 1: these things.

2228
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:56,920
Speaker 3: I've read enough, but I didn't use it to But

2229
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:58,679
Speaker 3: I'm definitely I'm always reading.

2230
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:01,160
Speaker 1: I know you're you're quite well read and stuff.

2231
01:52:01,240 --> 01:52:04,599
Speaker 3: I enjoy reading it, you know, socie.

2232
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 1: But it's not like you're like, let me read a

2233
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:08,760
Speaker 1: thousand papers. That's how I came up with your right.

2234
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:10,920
Speaker 1: And so what I think is really beautiful is your

2235
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:13,560
Speaker 1: things can be mapped onto my things. And what the

2236
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:17,800
Speaker 1: data shows your independent exploration. Sure you're reading a lot,

2237
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:19,800
Speaker 1: you are, you keep up with signs and stuff like that,

2238
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:23,480
Speaker 1: but you're looking at your experience and you have belonging

2239
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:25,520
Speaker 1: this which is correlated with relatedness.

2240
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:26,400
Speaker 3: Right.

2241
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 1: You have this curiosity which causes you to stretch. You

2242
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 1: have this independent usefulness which is autonomy, which is making choices.

2243
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead, no one needs to ask me,

2244
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:40,439
Speaker 1: and you find a utility like you know. And so

2245
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 1: I think it's really beautiful, Like like, I love hearing

2246
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:47,519
Speaker 1: that because that shows me that if people pay attention right,

2247
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:51,440
Speaker 1: if they do what you did, which not to devalue

2248
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:53,400
Speaker 1: what you did, but I think is easier than what

2249
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:56,599
Speaker 1: I did. You don't have to read a thousand papers

2250
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,639
Speaker 1: on purpose to understand what it is right. You can

2251
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:02,160
Speaker 1: pay it tension to yourself. You can do some amount

2252
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:04,479
Speaker 1: of reading. You can listen to a few podcasts and

2253
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 1: that is enough for you to find the right answers.

2254
01:53:07,280 --> 01:53:10,360
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because you hit all three. You didn't

2255
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 1: come up with four. You didn't come up with two.

2256
01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:14,120
Speaker 1: You came up with three, and it's all the same buckets.

2257
01:53:14,520 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 1: Really amazing. I have two more, really okay, So that's

2258
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:21,160
Speaker 1: actually really cool too, because if you've got two more,

2259
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:22,960
Speaker 1: I wonder if we're missing something.

2260
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not, and I'm not saying you are.

2261
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:26,400
Speaker 3: This is just my own refinra.

2262
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 1: No no no, but I mean I would bat money we are,

2263
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 1: so tell me what. Okay.

2264
01:53:31,120 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 3: So having a sense of give back, having a sense

2265
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:37,160
Speaker 3: of being involved in other people's well being, which goes

2266
01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 3: back to you've it's really beautiful because I've heard that

2267
01:53:39,840 --> 01:53:44,120
Speaker 3: idea before, but not as strongly and concretely. This idea

2268
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:46,840
Speaker 3: of you explaining what it means to not think about

2269
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:50,400
Speaker 3: yourself today is just like really cut through for me,

2270
01:53:50,439 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 3: which is so powerful because it's been explained in a

2271
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:56,760
Speaker 3: clinical way, I think. And that's what that service element is.

2272
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:59,559
Speaker 3: It's like all those first things were still about in

2273
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 3: once belonging was beyond you is think about something bigger

2274
01:54:02,080 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 3: than you. But this one's a key part. It's like,

2275
01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:05,800
Speaker 3: how are you doing things for things which are not

2276
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 3: about you. I'm not thinking about how I'm useful, I'm

2277
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:10,040
Speaker 3: not thinking about this I'm trying to think about someone else,

2278
01:54:10,360 --> 01:54:12,240
Speaker 3: so service. And then the fifth one comes back to

2279
01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:14,960
Speaker 3: our point earlier on detachment, which is surrender. I use

2280
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 3: the word surrender because it falls into my five acronym

2281
01:54:18,120 --> 01:54:21,120
Speaker 3: that I have, But the last is surrender because there's

2282
01:54:21,160 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 3: such a need for ultimately that detachment from what you

2283
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:28,800
Speaker 3: just so beautifully said that at the end of the day,

2284
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:30,760
Speaker 3: I can't decide whether I'm going to save someone's life

2285
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 3: or not. The only thing I can be satisfied is

2286
01:54:33,240 --> 01:54:35,000
Speaker 3: I gave it my all, and that, to me is

2287
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 3: what surrender really is. The ability to say I did

2288
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:40,440
Speaker 3: everything and now I'm holding my hands up and I'm

2289
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:43,840
Speaker 3: living with the results because I can't control what's going

2290
01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,160
Speaker 3: on exactly. Yeah.

2291
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there's plenty of science for your

2292
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:51,520
Speaker 1: last two. I think the interesting thing is the scientific

2293
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 1: literature doesn't thus far has not tied that to the

2294
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:58,600
Speaker 1: concept of purpose. Yeah, but I think, especially like you know,

2295
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 1: service is really interesting. There's a study that found multiple

2296
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:06,720
Speaker 1: studies that found that people who suffer from major depressive

2297
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 1: disorder and are depressed, one of the best things they

2298
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:11,720
Speaker 1: can do to improve their depression is help other people.

2299
01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:13,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, right.

2300
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:18,320
Speaker 1: So there's something really special about being a part of

2301
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 1: a community. Giving back in some way has profound positive

2302
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:22,680
Speaker 1: effects on our brand.

2303
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 3: It's so great for self esteem. It affects all the

2304
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 3: I think we used to argue this stupid debate over

2305
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 3: can something ever truly be selfless service? Because you're doing

2306
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 3: it for yourself and imagine not interested in that question.

2307
01:55:34,160 --> 01:55:36,680
Speaker 3: It's more interesting to me the fact that if you

2308
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 3: were useful, you'd feel more useful where you'd be more

2309
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,480
Speaker 3: useful and you do more for others, and that is

2310
01:55:42,520 --> 01:55:45,280
Speaker 3: a positive cycle for people who have depression or a

2311
01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:48,400
Speaker 3: struggling with feelings of not being worthy enough or not

2312
01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:51,280
Speaker 3: mattering that idea. When you look at it through suicide,

2313
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:53,480
Speaker 3: it's like I didn't matter anymore. I didn't feel like

2314
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:55,000
Speaker 3: I was needed anymore.

2315
01:55:55,360 --> 01:55:56,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know.

2316
01:55:56,120 --> 01:55:57,680
Speaker 3: It's like you don't want people to go through those

2317
01:55:57,680 --> 01:55:58,680
Speaker 3: feelings and emotions.

2318
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:01,280
Speaker 1: There's a I love what you said, and let me

2319
01:56:01,320 --> 01:56:03,120
Speaker 1: know if we're like, no, I love it. Pickleball is

2320
01:56:03,160 --> 01:56:06,280
Speaker 1: going back and forth too much. But you know, I

2321
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:08,920
Speaker 1: love this concept of service because I think many of

2322
01:56:08,920 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 1: the questions you asked me, I think this is the answer.

2323
01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: So when you engage in service that dissolves your ego.

2324
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:18,919
Speaker 1: So if people are wondering, how can I stop caring

2325
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,760
Speaker 1: about other people? Give yourself in service, right, don't do

2326
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:25,800
Speaker 1: what they want. That's not really service. Service is not

2327
01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:29,640
Speaker 1: giving someone that they want. It is doing what you

2328
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 1: feel like for the benefit of others. It comes from you,

2329
01:56:33,320 --> 01:56:35,240
Speaker 1: and you're saying like, this isn't for me, this is

2330
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:37,440
Speaker 1: for other people. And if you kind of think about

2331
01:56:37,480 --> 01:56:39,640
Speaker 1: how do I stop caring about what other people think?

2332
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:43,960
Speaker 1: That is a selfish selflessness, right. I'm trying to make

2333
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:46,080
Speaker 1: other people happy so that they'll leave me alone, they'll

2334
01:56:46,080 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 1: treat me with respect, they'll tell me I'm great. That's

2335
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:53,640
Speaker 1: actually selfish. But service is giving without expectation, giving, and

2336
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:57,160
Speaker 1: that's the whole point, right, And so I think service

2337
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,720
Speaker 1: is a beautiful way to decrease the humguard because it's

2338
01:56:59,720 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 1: not about me anymore. And there's a really interesting neuroscience

2339
01:57:03,200 --> 01:57:07,640
Speaker 1: to this, which is literally, when you were engaged in service,

2340
01:57:08,280 --> 01:57:13,440
Speaker 1: the minutes that your brain are not thinking about you increases.

2341
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: And for so much of our life, social media and

2342
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:21,680
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, we are constantly thinking about ourselves.

2343
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:26,040
Speaker 1: So literally, to spend time to give your break or

2344
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:29,080
Speaker 1: your brain. A break from thinking about you, worrying about you,

2345
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:33,240
Speaker 1: just focusing on somebody else is profoundly helpful for your

2346
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:35,280
Speaker 1: default mode network and your ego.

2347
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:38,280
Speaker 3: Doctor K, I could talk to you vow is I'm

2348
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 3: going to need to book you in again. This is

2349
01:57:41,560 --> 01:57:44,120
Speaker 3: so much fun and we didn't even There's so many

2350
01:57:44,160 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 3: things we can talk about. But we end every own

2351
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,440
Speaker 3: purpose interview with a final five at these questions have

2352
01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:52,320
Speaker 3: to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay,

2353
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:54,200
Speaker 3: So doctor K thes a you a final five.

2354
01:57:54,240 --> 01:57:54,840
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it.

2355
01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:57,720
Speaker 3: Question number one is what is the best advice You've

2356
01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:02,520
Speaker 3: ever heard or received or given?

2357
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:10,400
Speaker 1: Best advice I've ever heard or received or given? Can

2358
01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 1: we go to the second one? Well, I think about that.

2359
01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:15,839
Speaker 3: The second one's harder. Usually, what is the worst advice

2360
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:17,520
Speaker 3: you've ever heard, received, or given?

2361
01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:20,320
Speaker 1: The thing that's top mind for me right now is

2362
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:21,040
Speaker 1: be yourself.

2363
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I agree. It's fully bad advice. I'm

2364
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 3: so glad you said that, because I was on tour

2365
01:58:26,240 --> 01:58:29,240
Speaker 3: earlier this year and I literally said downstage, I was like,

2366
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:30,880
Speaker 3: if anyone ever tells you to be yourself, it is

2367
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:34,840
Speaker 3: the worst advice over That makes me happy. Question number three,

2368
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:38,240
Speaker 3: what's something that you used to believe to be true

2369
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:39,720
Speaker 3: that you don't anymore.

2370
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm great, it's a good answer.

2371
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great answer.

2372
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:52,160
Speaker 1: I'm really not That's how I.

2373
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:53,920
Speaker 3: Can relate to I'll put my hand up with that.

2374
01:58:53,960 --> 01:58:57,760
Speaker 3: That's a great answer. Question number four, what's something that

2375
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:01,280
Speaker 3: other people don't agree with you on but you'd fight

2376
01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 3: for till the end.

2377
01:59:03,080 --> 01:59:05,160
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would fight for this, But

2378
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:07,520
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is, like some of my like,

2379
01:59:07,560 --> 01:59:10,520
Speaker 1: I think that this consciousness stuff is real. I think

2380
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 1: there's a whole dimension of like human existence that science

2381
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 1: cannot I get one answer, one word, but I think

2382
01:59:20,040 --> 01:59:22,080
Speaker 1: that there is a whole I think that I believe

2383
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:28,240
Speaker 1: there's a layer of reality that can only be experienced subjectively.

2384
01:59:30,200 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 3: Great answer. Fifth and final question. If you could be

2385
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:35,480
Speaker 3: asked this every guest has ever been on the show.

2386
01:59:35,880 --> 01:59:38,360
Speaker 3: If you could create one law that everyone in the

2387
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:40,240
Speaker 3: world had to follow, what would it be.

2388
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:46,360
Speaker 1: I would never do that, I really wouldn't.

2389
01:59:46,520 --> 01:59:49,040
Speaker 3: I'll edit for you. If you could create one habit

2390
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:51,360
Speaker 3: that you wish everyone in the world would follow, what

2391
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:51,960
Speaker 3: would it be.

2392
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 1: I understand you're trying to help me out here. But

2393
01:59:57,400 --> 02:00:00,200
Speaker 1: you know, answer, I am, I am so a verse

2394
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:04,000
Speaker 1: to doing one thing forever. Everyone interesting, right, Like, I

2395
02:00:04,040 --> 02:00:07,560
Speaker 1: just don't think like yeah interesting, and I think I

2396
02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:10,320
Speaker 1: really think like, I mean, I've learned this the hard way.

2397
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:13,840
Speaker 1: The moment I assume that anyone who walks in my

2398
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:17,400
Speaker 1: office is even a little bit overlapping with someone else

2399
02:00:17,560 --> 02:00:19,280
Speaker 1: is the moment that the great answer?

2400
02:00:19,320 --> 02:00:20,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I love that. Do you want to give the

2401
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:21,760
Speaker 3: best advice again?

2402
02:00:22,360 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? So best advice I would give is focus more

2403
02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:30,480
Speaker 1: on what is happening and less on what you're doing.

2404
02:00:31,080 --> 02:00:33,240
Speaker 3: Focus more on what is happening and less on what

2405
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:36,840
Speaker 3: you're doing. Yeah, I like that. Observe, observe, focus on

2406
02:00:36,840 --> 02:00:40,480
Speaker 3: the observation, focus on the experience.

2407
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:44,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, just to explain a little bit, right, touched it. So,

2408
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:47,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't realize what the

2409
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,720
Speaker 1: consequences of their actions are. So just to give you

2410
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:53,920
Speaker 1: a really simple example, we have a bunch of you know,

2411
02:00:54,040 --> 02:00:57,440
Speaker 1: kids that are on iPads right now, and so a

2412
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:02,600
Speaker 1: lot of times what parents don't realize is, like, you know,

2413
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:04,600
Speaker 1: when your kid throws a temper tantrum and you give

2414
02:01:04,640 --> 02:01:08,200
Speaker 1: them the iPad to calm them down, you're just training

2415
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:12,280
Speaker 1: them to throw a temper tantrum. For kids that are

2416
02:01:12,280 --> 02:01:14,200
Speaker 1: slightly older, a lot of parents will be like, hey,

2417
02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:16,120
Speaker 1: come down for dinner, Come down for dinner, Come down

2418
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:18,440
Speaker 1: for dinner. Kid doesn't show up for dinner, they're fifteen

2419
02:01:18,480 --> 02:01:21,880
Speaker 1: minutes late. You go up there, you unplug the PlayStation,

2420
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:25,560
Speaker 1: and you're like, no PlayStation for a month. So what

2421
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:28,720
Speaker 1: you're actually training your child to do is ignore your

2422
02:01:28,760 --> 02:01:33,400
Speaker 1: words and until you unplug the PlayStation. Does that kind

2423
02:01:33,400 --> 02:01:35,880
Speaker 1: of make sense. Yeah, So like the first six times

2424
02:01:35,920 --> 02:01:39,840
Speaker 1: you say something, you're not reinforcing that at all, right,

2425
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:42,280
Speaker 1: So you're actually training them to ignore what you say,

2426
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:44,040
Speaker 1: which is why you have to cont and then you

2427
02:01:44,040 --> 02:01:46,000
Speaker 1: have to take a drastic action to get them to listen.

2428
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:49,600
Speaker 1: And parents feel insane because now I'm having to go

2429
02:01:49,720 --> 02:01:51,640
Speaker 1: up and yell at you all the time in order

2430
02:01:51,680 --> 02:01:54,320
Speaker 1: to get you do to anything. That's because when you

2431
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:58,480
Speaker 1: speak gently, there is no consequence. So tie the consequence

2432
02:01:58,520 --> 02:02:02,000
Speaker 1: to the gentle, not the consequence to the yelling, because

2433
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:03,880
Speaker 1: if you tie the consequence to the yelling, you'll have

2434
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:06,240
Speaker 1: to yell again. That's the way they they'll get trained.

2435
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:11,040
Speaker 1: So pay attention to what is happening, not what you're doing.

2436
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:14,720
Speaker 3: That's a great explanation. I love that the book is

2437
02:02:14,760 --> 02:02:17,640
Speaker 3: called how to Raise a Healthy Gamer and Power Struggles,

2438
02:02:17,640 --> 02:02:20,840
Speaker 3: break bad screen habits, and transform your relationship with the kids.

2439
02:02:21,480 --> 02:02:23,520
Speaker 3: Doctor K. Subscribe on YouTube as well. If you don't

2440
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 3: subscribe to doctor K channel already, Doctor K, You're gonna

2441
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:28,360
Speaker 3: have to come back and do it a bunch of

2442
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:30,720
Speaker 3: more episodes because we didn't even talk about kids today.

2443
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't talk about kids, and I still want

2444
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:36,120
Speaker 1: to hear so much. I mean, it's it's amazing. You know,

2445
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 1: your background with the GETA and stuff like that, so

2446
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 1: I'm super curious because you seem super grounded in that

2447
02:02:43,320 --> 02:02:45,880
Speaker 1: and and I haven't even read the whole thing, so

2448
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:47,120
Speaker 1: I want to learn about that.

2449
02:02:47,320 --> 02:02:49,160
Speaker 3: More than have you to. Now we know each other,

2450
02:02:49,280 --> 02:02:51,080
Speaker 3: so yeah, we should connect offline as well.

2451
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:51,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, dude.

2452
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, such a pleasure. Man, You're amazing. If you love

2453
02:02:54,200 --> 02:02:57,920
Speaker 3: this episode, you'll love my interview with doctor Gabo Matte

2454
02:02:58,320 --> 02:03:02,520
Speaker 3: on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds

2455
02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:05,840
Speaker 3: to start moving on from the past. Everything in nature

2456
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 3: grows only where it's vulnerable, So a tree doesn't grow

2457
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:10,720
Speaker 3: where it's hard and thick does it. It goes where

2458
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:12,560
Speaker 3: it's soft and green and vulnerable.