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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and

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Speaker 1: I'm an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting

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Speaker 1: across from me, as always senior writer Jonathan Strickland. It

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Speaker 1: ain't fair how we scrounged for three or four bucks

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Speaker 1: while she gets warbucks. The little brat as always excellent.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. So we're gonna talk about Google Wallet today, indeed,

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Speaker 1: and Google Wallet was a project that was announced back

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Speaker 1: in I think May of eleven. It is now late

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Speaker 1: June twenty eleven when we're recording this podcast, but we

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Speaker 1: wanted to kind of talk about it and kind of

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Speaker 1: go over what the implications of the the product is.

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Speaker 1: Our gosh, I'm so tired. I've just got back from

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Speaker 1: vacation and my my ability to speak in coherent sentences

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Speaker 1: with proper grammar is sorely depleted. Yes, yes, so Google

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Speaker 1: wallet fire bad. Um. Anyway, so we wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about what Google walle it is, how it works in

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Speaker 1: a kind of bird's eye view level and what it

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Speaker 1: might mean to the future of making purchases. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: funny because this is not really a new topic at all,

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Speaker 1: but it's new to many people here in the United

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Speaker 1: States because I mean, this is the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that's been going on for many years over in Asia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Japan in particular, Japan in particular. Um, basically the idea

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Speaker 1: of being that you could uh store payment information in

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Speaker 1: your cell phone or smartphone and uh use that information

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Speaker 1: to make a payment when you go to a store. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so instead of scanning a you know, swiping your credit

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Speaker 1: card and signing a little digital thing, or or having

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Speaker 1: to put in your pin number if you're using a

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Speaker 1: debit card, or even using a credit card that has

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Speaker 1: an r F I D chip in it where you

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Speaker 1: know you'll you'll see those consoles at certain vendors where

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Speaker 1: you can tap the card and that registers as a payment. Uh,

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Speaker 1: instead of using a card at all, it would be

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Speaker 1: stored on your phone. And you might ask, well, why

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Speaker 1: would you even bother to do that, Like, why why

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Speaker 1: have it on your phone? As opposed to if you

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Speaker 1: if it's replacing tapping a card, how does that make

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Speaker 1: it easier? If you put it on a phone, and

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a legitimate question. I mean, one answer

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Speaker 1: you could arguably give is that, well, you cut down

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Speaker 1: on the things you need to carry. But when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a credit card, it's not like that's a huge,

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Speaker 1: bulky thing that's really weighing it down. In fact, it's

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Speaker 1: much smaller form factor than a cell phone or smartphone.

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Speaker 1: So really the value in the proposition is that Google

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Speaker 1: has has grouped this ability to pay through a a

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Speaker 1: smartphone own with other services that kind of make it

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Speaker 1: more of an attractive service. It's not it's not just

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Speaker 1: that you can pay with a smartphone. There are other

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Speaker 1: features that are involved that are pretty cool. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: in addition to that, Google says that it doesn't intend

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Speaker 1: to replace a credit card. It intends to replace all

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Speaker 1: of your credit cards and your loyalty cards. Does the

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Speaker 1: cards that you carry around with you to UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you you're at your grocery store and you get,

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Speaker 1: you know, fifty cents off a can of tomatoes if

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Speaker 1: you have the card, UM, basically you're selling them your

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Speaker 1: information so they can market to you. But you also

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Speaker 1: exchange they'll give you a discount, and you also get yeah,

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Speaker 1: so not just loyalty cards, but also coupons, like electronic coupons.

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Speaker 1: So so there might be a loyalty program. For example,

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Speaker 1: here's an easy one. My wife really likes coffee, right,

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Speaker 1: so she has loyalty cards with practically every coffee shop

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Speaker 1: that is in a ten mile radius of our home. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Her loyalty to coffee as legendary, Yes, to the point

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Speaker 1: where you know, she has to sort through her loyalty

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Speaker 1: cards when she goes into a coffee shop to determine

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Speaker 1: which one of her cards applies at that shop. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's one of those things where you know,

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Speaker 1: you buy nine coffees and the tenth one is free,

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Speaker 1: same sort of thing, except it stored electronically on your phone,

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Speaker 1: and so it the the application of Google Wallet keeps

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Speaker 1: track of how many times you've been to this particular

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Speaker 1: place and bought a particular thing, and then automatically registers

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Speaker 1: when you hit ten, and so when you go to

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Speaker 1: pay it registered, it files that information for you. It's

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Speaker 1: the same as if your card had been stamped a

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Speaker 1: tenth time, and then you don't have to uh and

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Speaker 1: want you don't get the price of the coffee deducted

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Speaker 1: from your account or charged to your card. Um. And

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Speaker 1: before we get too far into this, just before we

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Speaker 1: launch into it, I wanted to mention UH that we

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Speaker 1: do have an article about paying UH with a cell phone.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's called can you use a cell Phone

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Speaker 1: as a credit Card? And Julia Layton wrote that article

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Speaker 1: and it's a UM. If you go and read the article,

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Speaker 1: you'll actually notice that there's some mention of of this

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Speaker 1: debuting in the United States back in two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: and not Google Wallet, but the ability to pay using

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Speaker 1: using a phone as a credit card. Now, keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: even two thousand seven is late to the game compared

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Speaker 1: to Japan. That's that's true. That's true. UM. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to go before we go any further to UM.

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Speaker 1: Google is also saying that in addition to loyalty cards

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Speaker 1: and credit cards, Google says that it that Google Wallet

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Speaker 1: will eventually allow you to use gift cards, receipts, boarding passes,

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Speaker 1: UM and and possibly your keys UM available through Google Wallet.

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Speaker 1: So UM it would in fact, in theory be able

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Speaker 1: to reduce the amount of stuff you would need to

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Speaker 1: carry in your wallet. Now, I noticed there's no driver's

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Speaker 1: license mentioned in their passport. That would be interesting to see.

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Speaker 1: Although passports in the United States do have a radio

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Speaker 1: frequency identification chip, Yes they do. So I have a

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Speaker 1: little little wallet that blocks that. Yes, mine. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that later too, because that's gonna come up. But

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Speaker 1: we should probably talk about the you know, how it

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Speaker 1: works and the benefits of using it. Sure now, when

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Speaker 1: they were when Google was launching this, they were talking

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Speaker 1: about two specific other partners with this. Yes, there are

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Speaker 1: also thousands of vendors that are going to support this,

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Speaker 1: but the two partners specifically that I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about where Sprint because the phone that they're debuting the

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Speaker 1: Google Wallet service on is the Nexus S four G,

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Speaker 1: which is only on Sprint, Yes, all right. And then

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Speaker 1: City MasterCard, which is that you know, that's where that's

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Speaker 1: got the financial backing. That's so if you want to

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Speaker 1: have Google Wallet, you have really two choices as far

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Speaker 1: as what kind of payment option you go with. You

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Speaker 1: can either apply to get a City MasterCard account, or

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Speaker 1: if you already have one, you can enter that information

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Speaker 1: into Google Wallet and that will become your Google Wallet account.

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Speaker 1: Or you can get a Google Prepaid card and Google

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Speaker 1: Prepaid Card is you know, it's essentially what sounds like,

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Speaker 1: you can you can put money into your Google Prepaid

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Speaker 1: card and use that for payments, kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: like pay Pal or any other sort of gift card

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Speaker 1: kind of approach. Um, And what's kind of interesting is

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Speaker 1: that if you do the Google prepay approach, they will

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Speaker 1: actually credit you ten dollars in your account, so you'll

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Speaker 1: get ten bucks for free. Yeah, I thought that was

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Speaker 1: pretty funny. Actually, and at least until um the end

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Speaker 1: of twenty eleven, you will not have to pay any

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Speaker 1: fees to add money to your Google Prepaid card. So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, it's not like you get a service

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Speaker 1: feed up added on top of you know, you want

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Speaker 1: to add say a hundred dollars to your Google Prepaid card,

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Speaker 1: You're not going to get a service fee of five

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Speaker 1: bucks on top of that, at least until the end

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Speaker 1: of twenty eleven. Now, uh, what does that mean that

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Speaker 1: in they'll start adding in a service fee. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: don't know. But the wording is specifically about till the

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Speaker 1: end of or at least until the end of twenty eleven,

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Speaker 1: is how they put it. So, um, yeah, you've got

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Speaker 1: so you've got the that's the backing as far as

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Speaker 1: payment goes, so it's either City MasterCard or the prepaid card,

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Speaker 1: which you can use any credit card to purchase money

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Speaker 1: to go toward the prepaid card. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: have a City master Card for that one. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: what about the actual payment process, like, how does this

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Speaker 1: transfer happen? Well, it happens through UM something called an

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Speaker 1: NFC chip. Yes, that's near field communication. UM. This is

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Speaker 1: a little different from the r F I D chip

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Speaker 1: that you find in your UH and some of your

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Speaker 1: credit cards, which is if you if you have one,

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Speaker 1: you'll know it. It's that that little uh usually gold

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Speaker 1: color or silver colored UM piece of metal embedded in

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Speaker 1: the chip. Basically that has your your information UH in

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Speaker 1: it so that when you UH take it near one

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Speaker 1: of those paid UH pads and you touch it to

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Speaker 1: that the pad can read that of course. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: basically it's as far as you know, it's not electronic

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. It doesn't have you know, need

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Speaker 1: a battery or anything to operate. UM. So it's it,

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Speaker 1: but it's essentially always on. There's nothing keeping it from

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Speaker 1: being read at any time, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: criticisms people have of R f i D chips, and

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Speaker 1: as Jonathan was saying, he's got apparently he carries a

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Speaker 1: Faraday cage in his wallet. It's a it's it's a

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Speaker 1: special case that has r f i D blocking material,

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Speaker 1: or not r f i D blocking material, but blocks

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Speaker 1: radio frequencies. Right, So if somebody had something that could

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Speaker 1: if he weren't carrying that, and somebody had something that

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Speaker 1: could pick up an r f i D chip near enough,

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Speaker 1: and they just you know, bumped into him in public,

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Speaker 1: say like a pickpocket might, except without having to pick

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Speaker 1: his pocket, they could read the number off of the card. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also find that having r f i D chips,

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Speaker 1: multiple r f i D chips in my wallet will

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Speaker 1: interfere with things like the UH rapid transit system in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: If you have another r f i D chip, it

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Speaker 1: will you know, they'll the two signals will cancel each

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Speaker 1: other out and say I can't read that the wallet. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's annoying. It's so irritating having to go all the

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Speaker 1: way to taking a card out of your wallet to

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Speaker 1: tap against the little circle so that you can go

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Speaker 1: in and ride public transportation. Such an inconvenience, But in goodness,

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Speaker 1: we got rid of that token system. But in contrast, UM,

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Speaker 1: the near field communication system can be turned on and off,

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Speaker 1: and there is a transceiver built into UH the NFC

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Speaker 1: enabled phones in this case the nexus S that will

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Speaker 1: allow you to transmit that information, so it can be

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Speaker 1: you can turn it off essentially. UM, now you can

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Speaker 1: have and you can have a passive NFC system where

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Speaker 1: where one element is just like with r F I D,

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Speaker 1: where one element is is active and then the other

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Speaker 1: one is passive. But in the case of smartphones we're

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Speaker 1: talking about and both both parts are active. And then

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Speaker 1: you say, all right, well enough about this, how does

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Speaker 1: it actually work? All right? Well, uses inductive coupling. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking inducing electricity. And if you guys have

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Speaker 1: been listening to tech stuff for a while, you know

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this in multiple episodes and including some

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Speaker 1: of our Basic Electronics episodes and others. So induction, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about that wonderful relationship between electric electricity and magnetic fields.

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Speaker 1: So electric fields and the magnetic fields, and so what's

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Speaker 1: happening with U NFC is that it's you have at

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Speaker 1: least one element that's producing magnetic field and then you

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Speaker 1: have another element that has a coil of wire in it.

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Speaker 1: And when you pass that that chip that has the

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Speaker 1: coil of wire in it next or through that magnetic field,

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Speaker 1: it alters the magnetic field, all right, and it alters

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Speaker 1: it in such a way depending upon the coil of

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Speaker 1: wire that's in that chip and other elements. It manipulates

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Speaker 1: that magnetic field in such a way that something that

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Speaker 1: electricity flows through that active element and then whatever is

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Speaker 1: supposed to happen theoretically happens. So yeah, exactly. So example,

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Speaker 1: for example, if it's a locked door and it has

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Speaker 1: an electric lock that is producing this, it's using near

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Speaker 1: field communication. UM. You have the little pad on the

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Speaker 1: door that is actively generating this magnetic field. You pass

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Speaker 1: your key fob through that magnetic field. It registers that

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Speaker 1: as the correct uh kind of alteration of that mannetic

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Speaker 1: field that corresponds to this person has a key to

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Speaker 1: this office and it will unlock. Now with the smartphones,

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Speaker 1: you've got the two different magnetic fields that are being generated,

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Speaker 1: and that's where you can have this communication passed between

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Speaker 1: the two where essentially you have one asking for identification

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Speaker 1: and the other one UM making sure that registers that

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Speaker 1: it's an actual payment. You know, you have to have

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Speaker 1: this work on both sides for this to to take place.

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Speaker 1: So um and just in case you're curious, the data

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Speaker 1: rates that can transfer between two devices in an NFC system, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there are three different data rates that are possible. And

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Speaker 1: when you hear how what the speeds are, you gonna think, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty slow compared to like an Internet connection, like

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Speaker 1: a broadband Internet connection a hundred six killabits per second,

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Speaker 1: two twelve kilabits per second, and four four killa bits

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Speaker 1: per second. But you gotta keep in mind that the

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Speaker 1: amount of information that's being transferred here minuscule. Yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about some sort of identification, credit card information, um,

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Speaker 1: and that's it really and well, purchase price or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But it's tiny in comparison to the amount of data

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Speaker 1: you get even just loading up a basic web page.

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Speaker 1: So you don't really need a super fast data transfer

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Speaker 1: rate in order for this to work. So the smartphones

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Speaker 1: are using this NFC technology, and the the vendors have

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Speaker 1: to use it as well. I mean, obviously, even if

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Speaker 1: you've got Google Wallet and you walk into a store,

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Speaker 1: there's no guarantee you can use your phone to pay

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Speaker 1: for whatever you're buying, the vendor has to also have

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Speaker 1: their half of the system in place, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't just walk up to a cashier and wave

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Speaker 1: your phone around and it will pay for it. You

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Speaker 1: might get some funny looks or be politely asked to leave,

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Speaker 1: or maybe not politely asked to leave. Well, um it does.

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Speaker 1: If you've seen the MasterCard pay pass system, UM, then

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Speaker 1: there there are actually play says. There's a on the

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Speaker 1: Google Wallet UM information site. There is a way to

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Speaker 1: look up whether or not they're Google Wallet merchants in

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Speaker 1: your area. And basically any place that has that system

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Speaker 1: already in place, that system will interact with Google Wallet

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Speaker 1: or is this it's supposed to? Um? Plus, there are

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Speaker 1: other places to a lot of the stores that you

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Speaker 1: might find the malls here UM in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and some restaurants UM. You know, places like blooming Gale's

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Speaker 1: or American Eagle, Macy's, um Arby's. Yeah, that's true because

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Speaker 1: I actually went. Uh. If you go to to Google's

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Speaker 1: pages on this, they have a little section where you

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Speaker 1: can type in your zip code and see what what

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Speaker 1: stores nearby are. UM have that that option and so

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Speaker 1: I checked for our office just out of curiosity and

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Speaker 1: saw that there was an Arby's. And uh, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because we actually have a couple of really large malls

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Speaker 1: near our office, and I didn't see a lot of

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Speaker 1: stores in those malls that had adopted us. Now. Granted,

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Speaker 1: even though this technology, again the technology itself is not new,

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Speaker 1: the product and the service are very new. Uh so

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Speaker 1: it's not a huge surprise that there's not a widespread

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Speaker 1: adoption yet. But what is interesting to me his Eric

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Speaker 1: Schmidt has said that he believes within a year there

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Speaker 1: will be widespread adoption. So, based upon the recording of

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Speaker 1: this podcast within by June two thousand and twelve, Schmidt

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Speaker 1: expects that this NFC approach to paying for goods and

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Speaker 1: services will be widespread. I'm holding him to that. It

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Speaker 1: would be nice. I mean, especially again we'll get back

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Speaker 1: to the offers and everything with Google Wallet to talk

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Speaker 1: about how you know that adds value to their their service. Um,

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Speaker 1: but uh, I mean it would be nice to know

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Speaker 1: that we are no longer kind of in the the

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Speaker 1: relatively dark agents technologically speaking, compared to like Japan. I

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Speaker 1: know I keep bringing that up, but I mean Japan

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Speaker 1: is light years ahead of us as far as the

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Speaker 1: mobile technology goes, you know, I mean they're we're catching

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Speaker 1: up definitely. And I know that the iPhone is has

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Speaker 1: become popular in Japan as well, So it's not like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know they look at our our brand new toys

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Speaker 1: and say, man, that was cool five years ago. Well, um, well,

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Speaker 1: that's something I want to talk about in a minute.

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Speaker 1: There I wanted to bring up before we got away

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Speaker 1: from too far away from how it works. I feel

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Speaker 1: compelled to point out that there is another step. You

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Speaker 1: don't just tap your phone to the pad and you know,

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Speaker 1: say thank you very much, here's your receipt. There is

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Speaker 1: another step. Now you you might be wondering, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: how does it know it's me? You have to enter

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Speaker 1: a pin on your phone. Your phone has to be

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Speaker 1: on if it if it is off, if you've run

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Speaker 1: out of battery, you've run out of cash or not cash.

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Speaker 1: But you know, um yeah, you can't usually can't use

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Speaker 1: it anymore because it's got to be able to receive

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Speaker 1: a signal. Now you don't have to have a a

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Speaker 1: phone signal where you are. So you're in a really

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Speaker 1: giant mall um away from a tower, and you're way

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Speaker 1: from a tower and you can't get a signal. Why,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine the mall that wouldn't have its self.

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Speaker 1: But there's there are places. There are places near where

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Speaker 1: I live that are right around the corner where I live,

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Speaker 1: and there are certain stores that if you go into it,

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Speaker 1: it's like they've built a fair day cage around that

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Speaker 1: store because you can't your signal drops like a like

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Speaker 1: like a like a stone, like like something that drops

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Speaker 1: very like something that it hung in the air, the

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Speaker 1: same way bricks. Don't I love that? Um? But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to you have to be able to identify yourself.

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Speaker 1: The phone has to be on for you to complete

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Speaker 1: the transaction. UM. As a matter of fact, the uh,

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Speaker 1: the information is stored in something that Google is calling

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Speaker 1: the Secure Elements. Yes, it's not. It's not connected directly

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Speaker 1: to the Android processing chip. That was a very important

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Speaker 1: part of Google's presentation. They wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 1: everyone understood the what measures they had taken to ensure

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Speaker 1: security of this, because you know you could you could

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Speaker 1: clearly any time you're talking about transmitting data wirelessly. There's

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Speaker 1: this whole fear that there's a way that that data

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Speaker 1: could get leaked and compromised. And of course we all

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Speaker 1: know that you don't have to transmit data wirelessly in

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Speaker 1: order for your information to be compromised. I know this

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Speaker 1: from recent personal experience. But um, but any time that

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Speaker 1: you see that that medium of exchange, that's one of

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Speaker 1: the concerns you have, right. So, yeah, the secure element

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Speaker 1: is is completely separate from the Android processor and the

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Speaker 1: apps that Google walad app does not directly um access

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Speaker 1: the secure element. So, in other words, they wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure that if you were to, say, lose your phone,

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Speaker 1: that getting hold of your credit card information would not

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Speaker 1: be an easy thing to do. Now, that's not to

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Speaker 1: say that some enterprising hacker couldn't figure out a way

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Speaker 1: to do it. So even if you were to lose

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Speaker 1: your phone, the Google stresses that you should immediately contact

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Speaker 1: your your bank or other financial institution, or to change

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Speaker 1: your credit cards, canceled them out and get new ones,

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Speaker 1: because you know, you never want to just entrust and

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Speaker 1: say that something is completely secure from all possible attacks.

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Speaker 1: Because we all learned a lesson from Titanic, well, Uly

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Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio is dreamy well, and in the case of

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Speaker 1: the uh nexus s the secure element is an n

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Speaker 1: x p p N six K chip. I'll sure give

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Speaker 1: it away now everyone knows. According to Clinton Bolton from

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Speaker 1: E Week, UM and yeah, lest you think, as I

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Speaker 1: saw in comments on his article, UM, that we are

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Speaker 1: necessary early spreading fear, uncertainly, uncertainty and doubt, all otherwise

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Speaker 1: known as fud UM. I just I feel compelled to

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Speaker 1: report um as other people did. I saw this person

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Speaker 1: quoted a couple of times UM McAfee security expert UM

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Shaw, who basically was saying that based on what

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Speaker 1: he knows the system, it's not that the system isn't

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Speaker 1: designed with security in place, he you know, so much

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Speaker 1: as he thinks that it might be possible to take

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Speaker 1: the authentication key from the Google Wallet application itself and

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Speaker 1: uh rite an application that will allow somebody to fool

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Speaker 1: the secure element into giving up what it has. It's

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Speaker 1: not the secure element that he sees as the weak

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Speaker 1: link the app as being reverse engineer able to get

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Speaker 1: at whatever the you know your PIN number and just

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Speaker 1: it yes, sorry, you know pin? Actually the end of

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Speaker 1: the personal number, the personal identification number number, UH your

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Speaker 1: Windows phone. Now we're talking to Android I'm sorry. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they basically they feel that it's possible to do that. Now, um, yes,

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Speaker 1: you could say that Google has gone to a lot

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Speaker 1: of trouble to ensure that it's not going to be

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Speaker 1: easy to make this happen. Um and and and people

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00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: uh who like this idea are probably saying no, you're

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Speaker 1: just saying this, and it's it's very unlikely. Yes, it's unlikely,

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Speaker 1: but it's possible. It's a good idea to keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind. Just like any bank, it's possible that it

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Speaker 1: could get robbed. It's likely, but it's possible, and it's

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Speaker 1: possible you could have your card skimmed when you go

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Speaker 1: to a machine or that it is very possible, and

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Speaker 1: you know that there might be a very tiny camera

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Speaker 1: recording your movements that you so anyway the but but

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Speaker 1: also we should keep in mind that Android phones have

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Speaker 1: um have optional or locking systems on them as well.

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Speaker 1: So that's as a second level of security, which is

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Speaker 1: separate from the Google wallet. Like that's just so that

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Speaker 1: you can use your phone. So for example, if you

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Speaker 1: were to pick up my phone, you would find out

401
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 1: that there is a security code that you would need

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Speaker 1: to enter in order to access my phone. Now, yes,

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Speaker 1: there are ways of getting around that if you know

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Speaker 1: how to hack the phone properly. But again it's that

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Speaker 1: level of security that discourages you know, a major percentage

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Speaker 1: of the people who would otherwise try and take advantage

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Speaker 1: of finding your phone. So you know, no security system

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Speaker 1: is gonna be perfect, but you try and make it

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Speaker 1: strong enough so that the cases are our failures. And

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Speaker 1: then again, as I said before, Google does stress that

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Speaker 1: you have to let your financial institutions know so that

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Speaker 1: you can you can make sure that no one can

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Speaker 1: use that card against you. Um. And also they have

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Speaker 1: an element in place where it prevents you from creating

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Speaker 1: a week password or a weak pen. Yeah, so if

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Speaker 1: you were to try doing one one one one as

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Speaker 1: your pen so that you wouldn't have to remember it

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Speaker 1: whenever you're using Google Wallet, it will reject that and

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Speaker 1: make you choose something that's not going to be the

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Speaker 1: same digit four times or four sequential digits either up

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Speaker 1: or down. That kind of thing. Tony Bradley is sorry,

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Speaker 1: Tony Tony Bradley of PC World, Um, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you may have read the same article because it's um

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Speaker 1: this one also quoted Jimmy Shaw, uh but um he

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Speaker 1: had Bradley spoken with Google specifically about some of these things,

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Speaker 1: and Google said that Google Wallet itself does not have

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Speaker 1: access to the credit card information uh in the secure element.

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Speaker 1: Um so you know, basically they you know, they're they're

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Speaker 1: stressing that it really is a secure way of doing this.

430
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: Plus the uh uh. They added that the transceiver is

431
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: off if your your phone screen is off. So as

432
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: long as your screen is off, it is not there's

433
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: no way that it's supposed to be able to transmit information.

434
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: And near field communication works over very short distances. We're

435
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: talking like centimeters so um so, so intercepting that would

436
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: be difficult unless you know everyone's really buddy buddy in

437
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: the stores you're shopping right right. So I do think, um,

438
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: I do think they've put some some good security measures

439
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: in place. I like any kind of electronic transaction, I

440
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: think there's probably some risk involved. There's there's no fail

441
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: proof system out there. But I would say that again

442
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: it I would say that just because yes, there's an

443
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: element where there's a element of risk there, but it's tiny,

444
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: just like there's an element of risk in every kind

445
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: of transaction. You can do yeah, and you know, keep

446
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: in mind that anything that isn't an electronic transfer has

447
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: its own element of risk to it. It may be

448
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: different from the electronic version, but it's still there. So

449
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: no no system is perfect. Even we we found out

450
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: just this week that topic that we recently talked about bitcoin,

451
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: people have been stealing bitcoin. Yeah. I actually did an

452
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: update for our bitcoin podcast because of that. Yes, so

453
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 1: you'll be hearing. Actually you've already heard that. So when

454
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: you when you unless something has gone terribly wrong, you've

455
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: heard our bitcoin episode and so you will have heard

456
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: the update that I gave at the end of it. Um,

457
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: So did you want to talk about the offers? Yeah,

458
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: I want to talk with very briefly about Google Offers.

459
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: So Google Offers is kind of Google's answer to things

460
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: like group on, scout Mob. There are other lots of

461
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: living social, There are a lot of other services out

462
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: there that offer deals or cop ponds for specific goods

463
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: and services. And these are awesome, right, you know, you

464
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: get this this deal and maybe it's uh, you know,

465
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: it's maybe it's a place that you've never been before

466
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: and you want to check it out. Maybe it's a

467
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: place you go to all the time, and you want

468
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: to be able to use the offer towards some sort

469
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: of goods or service um or maybe you never would

470
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: have thought to go there at all, but this has

471
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: convinced you too, because the deal is just so darn good. Um. Well,

472
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: in most cases with this kind of thing, you you,

473
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: especially if it's a mobile app, you get some sort

474
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: of deal that you have to show at whatever the

475
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: vendor is, you know, whoever is, whoever is offering the

476
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: goods or services. So let's say, for example, I can

477
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: give a specific example. I used a a h an

478
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: app to get discount tickets to a local theater, and

479
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: the stage theater, not a movie theater, And so I

480
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: went to the theater and then I had to pull

481
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: up the app and show that I had activated that

482
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: particular offer, and I showed it at the door and

483
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: they applied the discount and then I got my tickets. Well,

484
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: with Google offers partnered with Google Wallet, it's not always

485
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: going to be the case, because you know, you have

486
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: to have the vendor using the system too. But let's

487
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: say that you have a Google offer for that particular place,

488
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: and you're using Google Wallet to pay for your whatever.

489
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: So let's say I'm going to the theater and they

490
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: have the system there. I could tap my phone to

491
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: that and it would automatically apply that coupon to the

492
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: purchase without me having to do a separate step of

493
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: showing the offer to someone else. And the same is

494
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: true again with the loyalty cards. So you might have

495
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: a particular place you go to a lot and uh,

496
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: you have your loyalty benefits, you have a coupon, and

497
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: you've got this uh, this Google Wallet system. All you

498
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: do is with one tap, you make your purchase and

499
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: everything is applied to that one uh, that one transaction.

500
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: And this is really a compelling service to me because

501
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: it simplifies everything, and you might even get to the

502
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: point where you're not even fully aware of all the

503
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: things that are looped in offers. So, for example, let's

504
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: say there are a lot of grocery stores that have

505
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: the loyalty cards, right, and you get certain deals when

506
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: you go shopping that other people who do who are

507
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: not part of the loyalty program, they don't have access

508
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: to those deals. And let's just say you're going on

509
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: a normal shopping trip and you're not even really paying

510
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: attention as you're purchasing your stuff. You know, you're getting

511
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: the brands you like, and you're getting whatever products you want,

512
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: and you go to check out and you tap your

513
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: phone and if there were any offers, that automatically gets

514
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: applied to whatever it was you were purchasing, and uh

515
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: and again it cuts down on the stuff you have

516
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: to remember to carry with you. So, for example, I

517
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: used my loyalty uh key fob things so much at

518
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: our grocery store that it eventually wore through and broke

519
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: off my key chain. And now I don't have it

520
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: with me all the time because I never bothered to

521
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: replace it because I was like, well, you know, it's

522
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: more walking. Yeah. I actually uh got an app from

523
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: my smartphone that has the ability to put the barcodes

524
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: on the screen. So theoretically you're supposed to just uh

525
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: scan your your phone screen in front of the thing

526
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 1: and it will read your loyalty card number. I can

527
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: tell you I think probably because of the screen protector

528
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: on my phone, I could never get it to read properly,

529
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: especially on the well on the youth scan lanes that

530
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of nervous given your phone to

531
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: the cashier. But you know, on the youth scan thing. Well,

532
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: it's just me. I'm gonna get it, you know, right,

533
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, I sat there for ten minutes. The people

534
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: were hitting me behind from behind with oranges and that

535
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: like the old the old days when they first got

536
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: the scanners, and the person would the cashier would scan something.

537
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Nothing would happen. Scan it, nothing would happened. Scan it,

538
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: nothing would happen. Stop, look at the sticker, put it

539
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: back down, scan it, nothing would happen. Yeah, it's like that, um,

540
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: But a near field communication system would completely scanning, scanning, needing,

541
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: just need to get it close enough to and for vendors,

542
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: for vendors that are participating with Google Offers but are

543
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: not participating with Google Wallet, you would still do the

544
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: scanning thing, right. You would have to open up your

545
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: Google Offers part of your Google Wallet and show off, hey,

546
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: I've got this coupon. So you would still do it

547
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: the older way through that method. But if they are

548
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: working with the Google Wallet system, then again it's just

549
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: one tap and you go, I think it's a sorry

550
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: you were going to say something, Well, you can go

551
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: ahead and say that. I think it's all I was

552
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: just gonna say. I think it's an interesting product and

553
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: I think I think it has a lot of potential. Um,

554
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: I know that there are a lot of other companies

555
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: that are looking into similar ways of doing payments. You've

556
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: also got the other services like group on, You've got

557
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: services like Living Social. They're they're handling the offers side

558
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: of it. They're not necessarily partnered with the payment side

559
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: of it yet, although that may change. Yeah, that's exactly

560
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: where I was gonna go because American Express and UH

561
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: four square are currently working together. UM. Now these are

562
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: with the plastic card not you know, there's not an

563
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: electronic wallet, but you figure with American expresses clout UH,

564
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: they would easily be able to do this. And yeah,

565
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: I mean you it is the similar situation, just not

566
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: with your phone. If you go with you find the

567
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: deal on four square. When you're out someplace where you

568
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: check in UH and you have your American Express card

569
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: with you and you pay with it, it should automatically, um,

570
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, give you the discount. And that's that's the

571
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: trial they ran out of south By Southwest. And there's

572
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: also a group on now, which is something they're doing

573
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: where it's trying to give you an instant offer rather

574
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: than something that you redeem later, which is traditionally how

575
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: a lot of these deals have worked. Um. And then

576
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: you've got you know, like we of the Nexus S

577
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: four G is on Sprint, and that's the only carrier

578
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: right now that is supporting this whole endeavor. Um. There

579
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: there's also talk that the other major carriers in the

580
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: United States, which of course our A, T and T,

581
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: T Mobile and Verizon, are all working on their own

582
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: NFC proprietary approach to payments, which means that we could

583
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: have a another sort of standards war to determine which

584
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: if any of the four come into uh prominence. And

585
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, so it may be that it's it's a

586
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: divided market where it all depends upon which carrier is

587
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: in charge of your your cell phone plan. So yeah,

588
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: we're still gonna be kind of keeping an eye on this,

589
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully we're gonna have systems that will

590
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: go across all carriers so that it makes it simpler

591
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: for everybody. Right because assuming that the the scanning platforms,

592
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: the FC consoles where you tap the phone against it,

593
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: assuming they can read all the different variations of this, well,

594
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: then that would be fine, right because then it wouldn't matter,

595
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: like if the if the vendor end is agnostic toward

596
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: which platform you're using, that would be best. But if

597
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: you go there and you're like, I've got this on

598
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: my phone and you tap it. Oh wait, you're a

599
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: T Mobile customer. Sorry, we only we only use this

600
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: for Sprint, that would be very frustrating from a consumer standpoint,

601
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: to the point where you're like, what's the point of this. So, um,

602
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: it's early days yet, We'll have to see and and uh,

603
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: it's not that I hope that Google is triumphant and

604
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: gets that the total market share for this. Um. I

605
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: think the competition is a great thing. I just want

606
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: to make sure that the competition is such that it

607
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt the consumer experience. So I want to make

608
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: that clear though, that I'm not trumpeting Google and saying

609
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: I hope that they crush everyone under the heel of

610
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: their enormous school colplex boot. Yeah it's uh, these boots

611
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: were made for Google. It's convenient enough, and people are

612
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: there certainly enough smartphones out there where I think the

613
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: market may be more ripe than it has been in

614
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: the past. Um, but I still think it will will

615
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: take some time. To catch on Bolton, who I mentioned

616
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 1: earlier from the week. Also, Uh in his article mentioned

617
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: that Uh, in addition to security concerns, he thinks that

618
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: it's possible that basically apathy consumer apathy will win out

619
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: and that none of the you know, Google wallet just

620
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: won't succeed in the long run. Um, I'm not so

621
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: sure that security or apathy are are gonna beat UM

622
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: the convenience of NFC unless there are just some horrific problems.

623
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, with all of it, the hacking

624
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: that's been going on lately, with UM, everybody, with every buddy,

625
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: I just don't know that it's it's going to register.

626
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: You know, at this point, it may ultimately not matter

627
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: if you if you demonstrate that the financial systems aren't

628
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: secure on their end, that doesn't matter what you're carrying

629
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: in your wallet. Yeah, that's whether it's virtual or physical.

630
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: And I mean that's a scary thought. But we've already

631
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: seen it happen. You know, we've seen credit card companies

632
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: get attacked by hackers, and we've seen you know, other

633
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: companies that are not directly connected to financial institutions but

634
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: are indirectly connected. And that's the way in and so yeah,

635
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: it's a scary thing. But I mean and people who

636
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: have been able to decrypt a pin block um that

637
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: they've hacked, which which was at one time considered you know,

638
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: highly secure because you have the credit card number encrypt

639
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: or the debit card number encrypted plus the pin block

640
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: encrypted different separately, and they said, oh, yeah, well with

641
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: that level of security, you're not going to get it. Yeah,

642
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: they've found ways to get that. Ever, say that your

643
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: ship is unsinkable, so you can also get mugged on

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Speaker 1: the way to the have your cash taken from you.

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Speaker 1: So the message you should take from this episode is

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Speaker 1: the world is dangerous and they're all out to get you. So,

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Speaker 1: if you guys have any other topics you would like

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Speaker 1: us to talk about on tech Stuff, you can let

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Speaker 1: us know on Facebook or Twitter or handled there as

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff h s W, or you can send us

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Speaker 1: an email That address is tech stuff at how stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com and Chris and I will frighten you

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Speaker 1: again really soon. Be sure to check out our new

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Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work

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Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities

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Speaker 1: of tomorrow. The house Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived.

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Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes, Brought to you by the

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Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you