WEBVTT - 05: Is Amazon Spying on You? 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:06.200 I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon customer, 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:12.440 because you guys paid progress. You guys paid problems. This 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.720 is Megacorp, an investigative podcast exposing some of the world's 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:23.759 most unethical corporations. This series is about Amazon. I'm Jake Hanrahan, 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:31.040 journalists and documentary filmmaker. Megacorp is produced by H eleven 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:42.280 for cool Zone Media. So we've spoken about the awful 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.559 work conditions in the Amazon warehouses, the company's disregard for 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.519 health and safety, and we've also looked at how Amazon 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.800 manages to avoid paying millions of dollars in tax. Now, though, 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.880 we're going to move on to something different, because, as 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:03.640 I've mentioned, each step up the Amazon pyramid of facori, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.039 there's a new scandal to be examined. In this episode, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.400 we're going to be asking the question, is Amazon spying 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.600 on you? We know the government is, we know social 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.120 media is, we know Google is. But what about Amazon? 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.440 A company that, in its delusion, prides itself on being 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:29.520 the smiley, happy face of the consumer experience. Let's find out. First, 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:34.600 let's take a look at Amazon's range of smart speakers. Now, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.160 if you don't know what a smart speaker is, consider 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:42.720 yourself lucky, but to explain. The smart speaker, sometimes referred 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.480 to as a home assistant, is an Internet enabled two 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:52.760 ways speaker system that basically replaces getting up and pressing 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.440 buttons in your home. For example, if you want to 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.480 search for something online, you can ask the smart speaker 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.760 to do it. If you don't want to just get 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.400 up and switch off the light, you can program the 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.400 smart speaker to do it on your command. Some of 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.280 the most advanced smart speakers can be programmed to basically 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.840 run your whole house for you. Amazon leads the global 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.880 market when it comes to smart speakers, but the start 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.560 of they'd sold a hundred million That sold sixteen point 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:27.000 five million smart speakers by the fourth quarter of twenty 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.040 and almost seventy of smart speaker users in the US 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.960 favor using the Amazon Echo. The Echo is their most 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:42.320 popular smart speaker. It's enabled with Alexa. Alexa is basically 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.360 the technology that makes Amazon's smart speakers work. Alexa is 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.880 a virtual assistant cloud technology that is able to learn 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.520 things as you use it in a more detailed way 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:59.720 of speaking, Alexa is a voice activated user interface that 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:05.120 you uses a combination of machine learning and artificial intelligence. 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.600 To function. It all sounds very futuristic, but it's here, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.600 it's now, lots of people have it now. Personally, I 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:14.680 can be a bit of a luddy and I do 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:18.160 not understand why anyone would want such a device in 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.800 their house. However, as I just said that many many 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:27.400 people do, this is helping Alexa learn, yeah, literally learn. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:32.480 The more commands Alexa receives, the more Alexa develops. In fact, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.320 Alexa has learned one hundred thousand new skills since the 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.480 technology was first launched in November. So to sum up, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.480 through the Amazon Echo and its utilization of Alexa, Amazon 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.360 has a reach into hundreds of millions of homes across 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.120 the world. So you'd really hope, for the sake of 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.560 personal autonomy and privacy that they're not listening into your 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:05.120 conversations through the smart speakers. Right Well, in t nineteen, 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.080 it emerged that Amazon employees had been listening to voice 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:14.280 recordings captured via the Echo in consumers homes and offices. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.360 This wasn't a couple of rogue employees either, No, Amazon 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.479 literally hired thousands of people to do this. The job 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.839 was to not only listen to what you're saying, but 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.400 to also transcribe and annotate it. They would then feed 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.240 it back into the software with the aim of apparently 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:37.760 helping Alexa better understand voice commands. Of course, this raises 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:43.719 extremely serious questions about citizens personal privacy. But it gets 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:49.400 even worse. Reported by Forbes, the people tasked with listening 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:54.320 to your conversations quote required to record the data, whether 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:59.640 the device has been activated on purpose or not end quote. 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.960 So basically, they can listen into your conversation even if 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:09.080 you don't want them to. So by buying an Amazon Echo, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:14.039 you've essentially invited an employee of Amazon to listen into 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.120 your private conversations, whether you've given Alexa command or not. 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.520 If Big Brother is always watching, it's clear now that 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 Amazon is always listening, that is, if you've got one 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.719 of these smart speakers in your home. Now, apparently, if 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.640 the people hired to listen, in record, and annotate conversations 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.119 in your home via the Amazon Echo here private data 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.880 such as your bank details, they're told to just mark 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.960 it down as critical data and move on. Let's hope 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.839 every single one of the thousands of people Amazon employed 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:56.080 to do this honest and didn't steal anyone's details. Now, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:00.000 according to this Forbes article. One of the darker elements 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.719 to this situation is that two workers employed to log 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.880 the conversations thought they heard a sexual assault. When they 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:13.000 reported it to their superiors, Amazon ironically enough, told them 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.600 it's not their job to interfere. So Amazon will listening 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:20.120 to your conversations to improve their software data. But if 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.839 they hear someone being sexually assaulted, they don't want to 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.000 do anything about it, according to this article. Now, unfortunately 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:32.320 it doesn't stop. They're not at all. Let's talk about Ring. 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.280 Ring is a home security company owned by Amazon. They 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.880 bought it in eighteen for one billion dollars and now 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.000 millions of people across the world used the technology. Ring 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.560 provides a line of WiFi connected security cameras for your home. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.640 You've likely seen footage of Ring doorbell security systems online. 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.760 Is basically a little camera in the doorbell or wherever 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.560 they put it in their house that allows the homeowner 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.120 to see what's going on outside before they open the 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.240 door or inside, for example, if they want to keep 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.600 an eye on their kids as they're plane. Through the wifire, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.200 you can have Rings set up on your phone or 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.240 your tablet or your laptop or wherever it's not a 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.400 bad idea, but they have been at several problems with 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:24.320 Amazon's Ring, so let's start with the hackers. This is 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:32.520 particularly dark. It was reported by journalists Joseph Cox and 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.640 some month of Cole that hackers had built themselves a 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:41.360 dedicated software for hacking into Amazon's Ring security cameras. It 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.560 becomes clear how funked up this is when looking at 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.120 a story from Mississippi in the US, where it was 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.760 discovered that hackers had managed to get into a ring 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.240 security camera placed in the bedroom of three young girls, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:08:00.760 one of them was just eight years old. Hacker managed 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.240 to take control of the ring security camera, playing music 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.240 through its speaker as the young girls played in their room. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.320 Daker was watching them the whole time. Dakker then played 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.560 the song Tiptoe through the Tulips, and when one of 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.080 the young girls asked who was there, the hacker replied, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.040 it's Santa, it's your best friend. Here's the actual recording 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.320 of these hackers interfering with the Ring camera in the 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:34.240 room of these young girls. I'm your best friend. I'm 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.640 sand a clause. I don't you want to be my 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.920 best friend? You can mess up your room, you can 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.000 break your TV. You can do whatever you want. In 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.360 another incident of the same year, a hacker took control 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.960 of a RING security camera in Florida and began screaming 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.080 racist comments at a family for up to three minutes 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.840 before they were forced to pull the batteries out of 0:08:55.880 --> 0:09:00.760 the Ring unit. So why was this happening, Well, essentially, 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.960 Amazon's Ring wasn't requiring its users to choose two step 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.920 verification by default. With something as delicate as in home 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.280 security cameras, this should have been a standard requirement for 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.240 all users, because without the two steps, it was a 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.360 lot easier for hackers to get into their system. In fact, 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.040 reporters Joseph Cox and Samantha Cole found that hackers were 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.359 building and sharing programs to access RING cameras on criminal forums. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.680 This of course sets a very dark precedent. If that 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.880 wasn't bad enough, though, it was later discovered that Ring's 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.520 own employees had been improperly accessing Ring users video data. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:53.120 Amazon's Ring employees were spying on customers themselves. It was 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.720 discovered that four of Amazon's Ring employees had been fired 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.600 after abusing their position. They had watched footage from Ring 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:05.520 security cameras without the customer's knowledge or permission. This all 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.800 came out when Amazon Device President of Public Policy Brian 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.839 Huesman answered U S Senators in a letter after they 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:18.559 had written to Amazon expressing safety concerns about RING devices 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:23.559 in November twenty nineteen. In the response letter from Amazon 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:28.720 obtained by Motherboard, the question and answer is as follows 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:33.000 quote question to your knowledge have there been any documented 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:38.720 instances of this access being abused? Answer? Over the last 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:43.000 four years, RING has received four complaints or inquiries regarding 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:47.240 a team member's access to RING video data. Although each 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.920 of the individuals involved in these incidents was authorized to 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.160 view video data, the attempted access to that data exceeded 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:59.359 what was necessary for their job functions. In each instance, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.920 one Ring was made aware of the alleged conduct, RING 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:07.679 promptly investigated the incident, and, after determining that the individual 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:13.280 violated company policy, terminated the individual. In addition to taking 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:18.160 swift action to investigate and take appropriate disciplinary action in 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.360 each of these cases, RING has taken multiple actions to 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.679 limit such data access to a smaller number of team members. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.439 RING periodically reviews the access privileges it grants to its 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.760 team members to verify that they have a continued need 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.880 for access to customer information for the purpose of maintaining 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:42.000 and improving the customer experience end quote. So effectively, Yes, 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:47.040 Amazon has found several cases of Ring employees literally spying 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.280 on their customers. Now you might say, oh, well, this 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.680 is only four employees. Well, I would argue that this 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.840 is only four employees that got caught. Amazon's Ring has 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.960 clearly been sloppy with its security see both externally and 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:09.760 internally reported by The intercept In. Sources inside Ring said 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.680 that they had provided their research and development team in 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:18.280 Ukraine unfettered access to quote a folder on Amazon's S 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.560 three cloud storage service that contained every video created by 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:28.640 every Ring camera around the world end quote. Not only this, 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.600 at the time, the video files were left unencrypted, anyone 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.360 from the team could download someone's sensitive security camera footage 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.559 with the click of a button. The source also said, 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:46.559 quote Ring unnecessarily provided executives and engineers in the US 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.680 with highly privileged access to the company's technical support video portal, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:56.319 allowing unfiltered, round the clock live feeds from some customer cameras, 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.440 regardless of whether they needed access to this extremely sensitive 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:05.000 data to do their jobs. End quote. Imagine that people 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.720 are Amazon's Ring company able to look into your home 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.240 at seven on a live feed whenever they want to. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.319 That sounds like spying to me, even if there's no 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.760 intention of doing anything bad behind that they shouldn't have 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.480 had the access. Now. Whilst Ring pointed out to US 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.040 senators that for employees in Ukraine had been caught and 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.720 fired for spying on customers, it seems, at least according 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.760 to the source, that they failed to mention how these 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.840 employees were able to do so. That is rings sloppy 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.760 internal security when it comes to allowing workers access to 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.840 Ring security video. So there's the issues with Amazon's Echo 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:52.120 smart speakers and the issues with Amazon's Ring home security devices. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.079 After all that it might allow you to discover the 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:01.160 Amazon is now making little robots for your house, they too, 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:08.760 have already raised serious privacy concerns. Astro join me on 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:14.960 stage today. I'm full to introduce you to a new 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.480 kind of household robot that integrates Alexa advanced hardware, software, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.600 computer vision, and AI in a brand new way. And 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:26.360 it's a beautiful illustration of how ambient computing can improve 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:30.360 customers lives in a way that traditional consumer electronics just 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:35.120 kept if you didn't know. Amazon's Astro is a new 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.160 three wheeled little robot that can autonomously drive around your home. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.520 Is packed with cameras and has a little screen on 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.480 the front with two eyes. It's meant to be cute, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.360 but honestly, it looks a little bit creepy. The idea 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.960 behind Astro is that it will map the layout of 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.400 your home and act as a little robot butler, so 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.640 long as everything in your house is hooked up to 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:02.560 the same system as Astros Amazon's. Is this about Astro quote? 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.040 Astro is a household robot for home monitoring with Alexa. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.840 When you're away, use the Astro app to see a 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.920 live view of your home, check in on specific rooms 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.720 and viewpoints, and get activity alerts. When you're home, Astro 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.960 can follow you from room to room, playing your favorite music, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:26.400 podcasts or shows, and find you to deliver calls, reminders, alarms, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:31.280 and timers set with Alexa. End quote. Honestly, it sounds 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.760 fucking horrible, but that's Astro. So. Astro is known internally 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:41.720 at Amazon as Vesta and Astro Slash. Vesta has another 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.560 purpose that they don't tell you about in that advert. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.720 Running surveillance on customers. Have a listen to this internal 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:53.160 training video for Astro slash VESTA. Don't ask us where 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.160 we got this, just have a listen to what they're 0:15:55.160 --> 0:16:01.480 saying the donation. Start following that Anne stranger and keep 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.680 following under the stranger goes out of the field of you. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.280 As soon as the person goes out of field of you, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.400 it will start investigation. That is, it will go and 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:18.000 check in each scampaigns that is created. This investigation. Unknown 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:23.520 investigation or non person investigation will happen only after reaching 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.400 to the first scanpoint. This will not happen immediately. And 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:34.400 regarding the non person investigation, the patrol should start as 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.960 soon as it sees the non person in the field 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:42.520 of you, and immediately second later the person leaves from 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.080 the field of you, the patrol will start automatically. I mean, 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.840 when the investor is following an unknown person, then a 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.240 non person is introduced into the field of you, the 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.360 patrol or investigation immediately stops. You know, that was a 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.680 little bit hard to understand due to the start, but 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.240 that's we got it. But basically she is explaining how 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.439 Astro can run an investigation patrol. If a stranger quote, 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.760 stranger is in the house, and then Astro can hide 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.360 that activity from the non users at will if they 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.840 enter astros field of vision. So basically running about the 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.320 house doing a little investigation on this stranger. Then the 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.280 owner walks interview and quickly Astro stops it. I don't 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.080 know about you, but along with several other aspects of 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.879 Astro that will hear about, that seems quite creepy to me. 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.320 To get a better understanding of what Amazon is up 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.080 to with their Astro robot, I spoke to Matthew Goalt. 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.879 He's a staff reporter at Motherboard and the host of 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.000 their cyber podcast. He's also the one that first found 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:58.160 out about the surveillance situation with Astro. So the pitch 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.119 for investor or Astro as it's known now is that 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.640 it's basically like a tablet on wheels with Alexa software 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.560 built in and for a customer gets a cute little 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.480 Wally style thing the roll around your house, let you 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.960 buy stuff on Amazon, and it integrates into the rest 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.680 of the Amazon ecosystem into your home, meaning it can 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.440 communicate with ring cameras. Uh, you know, your Echo, your 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.160 Alexa and and if you have one an Amazon powered 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.520 security system. So the pitch and the way it's described 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.440 internally or kind of two different things. Um, the marketing says, 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.520 a clever little robot that learns from you and will 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:36.760 help you in your day to day life. So the 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.399 internal documentation kind of shows that Astro is a robot 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.160 that's designed to slowly move through your home, learn all 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.040 of its nooks and crannies, monitor to the behavior of 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.760 its inhabitants, and it literally will follow people around the house, 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.360 recording what they say and do and attempting to integrate 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.760 that data into a customer profile of the home. It 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.800 also has facial recognition software that the people working on 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.960 the device said doesn't work very well. So when you 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.960 buy this thing, you're supposed to get everyone in the 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.359 family together, you hunker down in front of it, and 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.760 you register your face. Um. This is one of the 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.760 things that Astro does is perk up when it meets 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:22.760 someone in the home who isn't supposed to be there. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.600 So if you know, ostensibly if you have an intruder, 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.239 it will follow them around, record what they're saying and 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.240 doing stot you know, for someone to view later, and 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.280 if certain conditions are met, alert the authorities. What those 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:42.880 conditions are aren't exactly clear, but the the the idea 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.639 is that if they are stealing something or making certain 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.040 kinds of loud noise like say the shattering of glass, 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.720 or if or if Astro sees a fire set, it 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.159 will then contact the relevant authorities. Now, I know you 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.399 might be thinking at this stage, well, that doesn't sound 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.359 that bad. Yeah, it's mapping out my whole house, reading 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.960 people's faces, etcetera. But if somebody bursts into my house 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.239 and I'm not there, this little robot thing is going 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.240 to call the police. Well, listen on, because it's not 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.880 that simple. And at the end of this you can 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.840 decide if you think the negatives outweigh the positives. But 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.480 the people we talked to who had worked on this 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:27.199 thing where we're not happy with the device, Um, we 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:29.520 talked to several people. Every single one of them kind 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.719 of said the same thing that they thought that this 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.840 was terrible. They were horrified by the privacy implications of it, 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.240 and that generally just didn't work very well. Astro seems 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.920 kind of bad at everything that it does. Um, this 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.840 is one of my favorite quotes. Astro is terrible and 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.400 will almost certainly throw itself down a flight of stairs 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.879 if presented the opportunity, and will note that every single 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.680 person we talked to mentioned that stairs were a problem 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.160 for Astro does not know how to handle them. Quote 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.320 the person detection is unreliable at best, making the in 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:08.080 home security proposition laughable. So drilling down, how does Astro 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:13.320 collect data on its customers? So, Astro is another in 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.960 a long line of data gathering operations run by Amazon. Basically, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.520 every interaction anyone has with Amazon, whether through using an 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.720 Echo Dot to order cheese Whiz or rewatching X files 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.639 for the five time on Prime Video, that becomes a 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:32.840 data point and Amazon's like huge aws stores. Um So, 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:34.879 if you're read a book on good Reads, or you 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.119 highlight a passage in a Game of Thrones novel on 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.679 your kindle, or you leave a one star review for 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:45.080 dish soap on Amazon, the site learns all of that. Ostensibly, 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.639 it uses this data to better manage the customer experience. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.359 You might start seeing books similar to the one you 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.280 rated highly, start getting ads for something that was mentioned 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.600 in that passage that you highlighted. Uh, and you'll probably 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.800 never see dish soap that you rated at one star 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.080 ever again, Um, and a lot of people love this. 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.480 They love the way that interacting with Amazon and its 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.399 systems allows you know, the site to learn about you 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.160 as a customer. The argument is that it makes life easier, 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.639 and that's kind of the tradeoff, right, You're sacrificing a 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:21.520 little bit of privacy for convenience. But the thing is, 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.119 I think a lot of what Amazon does, and a 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.440 lot of other people think that what Amazon does h 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.400 rises to the level of spying. And I think Astro 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:33.520 is a really good way to kind of taught, like 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.720 have that conversation. Um, there's stuff that it does that 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.159 just massive, massive, massive privacy concerns. And so if you 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.280 think about Astro as like a camera and a recorder 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:51.439 on wheels that is feeding information back to Amazon, Well, 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.000 who is looking at that information and why are they 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.760 looking at that information? Is there any kind of precedent 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.159 set in Amazon as a company that can tell us 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.879 about how they're going to use that information going forward? 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.240 At this point in the episode, because of what we 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.360 spoke about earlier, we know that there is a precedent 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:11.440 and that the people that get hold of this information 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:16.840 Amazon continuously disrespecting people's privacy is likely that the same 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:21.040 thing will happen with Astro um. And this is really 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.040 important because I think there's this big misunderstanding of Amazon. 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.560 When we start talking about its power and about breaking 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.200 it up and about whether or not it's some monopoly, 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:29.760 people are just like, well, it's just a website that 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:34.560 sells stuff that's really not true anymore. It also sells 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:36.920 a lot of surveillance tech, you know, like this little 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:40.760 astro robot. It's runs aws. It's the biggest data form 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.040 on the planet. UM. A lot of the Internet is 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.320 now filtered or stored on their cloud servers, and that's 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.159 a huge single point of failure in Amazon is storing 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:52.480 a lot of audio and video fed to it by 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:55.760 its customers through the cameras and echo dots and little 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.280 astros that are it's selling. If that wasn't bad enough, 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.440 listen to this extra detail a few Goats tells us 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.040 about the ring Comeras we spoke about the stuff of 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:09.439 the episode, Amazon has a lot of deals with various 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.879 law enforcement agencies across the country that gives them carte 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.960 blanche access to these ring cameras. Um. There's really good 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.199 investigations in pieces in Motherboard and then also from the 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:25.640 Electronic Frontier Foundation that have shown that Amazon routinely gives 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:29.440 cops access to these things. Um. One example, in San 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:34.120 Francisco in twenty nineteen, cops were given access to ring 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:36.679 camera footage so they could watch protests. And this is 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:38.600 not something that they go and they check with Hey, 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.040 can we uh, can we use your ring camera? See 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:44.520 what the footage is like. No, Amazon just hands it over. UM. 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:46.800 So you're when you're installing one of these things in 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:50.640 your home, you're becoming part of a vast surveillance network 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.720 and you don't have any control over where that data goes. Uh. 0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:57.480 There's a town in California that partnered with RING to 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:01.119 give away free cameras to anyone who witnessed a neighbor 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.720 committing a crime and then promised to testify against them 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:08.640 in court, you know, incentivizing people to rat out their neighbors. 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:12.960 In an incident in Washington State, a RING user posted 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:17.080 footage of someone on their porch. Sheriff later tracked down 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:19.239 the guy and then they got into a confrontation they 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:22.800 killed him. The woman has said repeatedly after the fact 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.639 that she regrets posting the footage online, and she feels 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:30.439 that her her sharing the ring recording directly led to 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.640 the man's death. UM. And it's one of these things 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:35.280 where it was obviously a guy that was in distress 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.320 and in need of like a mental health check um. 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.480 And he died because of an interaction with the police 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:44.080 and because someone saw him on a ring camera. Now, 0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:47.480 Amazon can't always control who gets access, and it can't 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:52.680 protect you from its own employees. UM. Their devices for spine, 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:55.720 even if ostensibly they're supposed to be used to make 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.600 our lives more convenient and keep people safe. And at 0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.400 the end of the day, it's a camera or recorder 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:03.560 and you don't have control over what's done with the 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:06.280 data once it hits Amazon servers. It's one thing to 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:10.199 have like a closed circuit television system set up in 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.760 your home where you are the only one that has 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.960 access to the footage. But when you get integrated into 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:21.080 Amazon's services like this, you're you're you're inviting this huge 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.520 company to paw through all of your stuff and look 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:28.200