1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,239 Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, A, market pros, and 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news. Find the 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: to podcasts, and on Bloomberg dot com. It is time 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: for a Bloomberg Opinion, and today we're going to look 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: at student debt. I think it's fair today that nobody 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: really wants to ever declare bankruptcy, but some people do 10 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: have to declare bankruptcy. The one thing, though, that you 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: won't be able to discharge in bankruptcy is your student loans. 12 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: You'll carry them around for the rest of your life 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: if you're not able to pay them off. Well, our 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: next guest says bankruptcy is a solution to the student 15 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,319 Speaker 1: loan crisis. So to get what he means, let's bring 16 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: in Jon Oh Sarah Bloomberg Opinion columnist Joe. Obviously, you 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: know this idea that you can never discharge your student 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: loans even in bankruptcy is something to be reckoned with. 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: You can spend a fortune getting you know, in education, 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: and then life can intervene. You can end up going bankrupt, 21 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: which you'll still have those student loans, you know, following 22 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: you around for the rest of your life. How how 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: do we change that? How can that be changed? Good morning? So, 24 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: first of all, it's beyond the rest of your life, 25 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: because once you die, the federal government will come after 26 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: your state to get to get paid off of the 27 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: student land. Um. You know, this has been something that's 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: been going on for about forty years, starting in the 29 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: late sixties, and they made it, the Congress made it 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: more and more difficult, near impossible to discharge the student loans, 31 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: not only those that are granted by the federal government, 32 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: which is about but also those that are granted in 33 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: the private market though by banks and institutions at grant 34 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: student loans. Um. Uh. So it is a ownerous burden. 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: Uh The average student loan debt is about thirty dollars, 36 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: but there are plenty of people who have debts of 37 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand or a hundred and fifty thou dollars. 38 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: And you know, in in the economy that we have 39 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: had for the last you know, fifteen or so years, 40 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: maybe more, it's been so hard for for those people 41 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: to get the kind of jobs that allow them to 42 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: make monthly payments and and and stay straight with their 43 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: student loans. So, Joe, I think as it relates to 44 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: the student loan issue, that what we've heard the most 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: out of politicians is actually forgiving the debt. How would 46 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: you compare and contrast I guess the pros and cons 47 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: of forgiving the debt versus maybe allowing um a bor 48 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: or to go into bankruptcy? Right? Um, well, uh, I say, 49 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: first of all, from a political point of view, forgiving 50 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: debt is going to be highly contentious. It's just gonna 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: be very controversial. There are gonna be lots and lots 52 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: of people who say, you know, I had to pay 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: my loan, why does this freeloader get you know, get 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: his loan up and partially um uh, you know, wipe 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: wiped off the board. So so that's point one, it's 56 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: it's a political it's a political problem. Point number two 57 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: is that you know, the amounts that are being talked 58 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: about are being between loan forgiveness between ten thousand and 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: fifty dollars. So for some people that will wipe out 60 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: their loan. For many others, it won't, and they'll still 61 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: have a lot of money to pay back, just not 62 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: as much as they had before. The thing about bankruptcy 63 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: is number one, it would wipe out the entire loan. 64 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: But number two, it comes at a price. Nobody, as 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: as as you said at the beginning, nobody wants to 66 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: file for bankruptcy. You know, it hurts your credit and 67 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: makes it difficult to buy a house, and maybe it 68 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: sometimes makes it difficult to buy a car for five, six, 69 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: seven years, and it takes a while to recover from. 70 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: So when you file for bankruptcy, you pay a price. 71 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: So that would help um subdue some of the objections 72 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: from those who think it's just a program for freeloaders. 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Is there I mean, is there any appetite for it 74 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: to be done across the board? So I've definitely seen 75 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: people talk about maybe doing it for teachers if they 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: put in a certain amount of time of public schools, 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: or doing it for people who go work with the 78 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: Peace Corps for a while. But hows anybody has just 79 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: suggested has it got anywhere in Congress? This idea that 80 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, as a certain amount of student loans we've 81 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:31,119 Speaker 1: paid off for every single student no matter what they study. Um, 82 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: it depends on what you talked to. I mean, in 83 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, there is an 84 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: enormous amount of desire to get this done. In the 85 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: in the in the in the furthest right wing of 86 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: the Republican Party, there's no appetite for this whatsoever. And 87 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that I've been suggesting bankruptcy 88 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: as as a possible middle ground. Um. But let me 89 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: say something else about what you just said about teachers 90 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: and so on. Um, there's a second aspect to this. 91 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: If you file, if you bring back bankruptcy, it means 92 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: that the lenders, the banks, the government are all going 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: to have to be more careful about making loans. That's 94 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: one of the big problems. They give the money to anybody, 95 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: they don't have to care whether the person can pay 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: it back or not, because they're gonna get reimbursed by 97 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: the federal government. That's a huge problem. That's called moral hazard. Um. 98 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: And so you know, if they're more careful with their lending, 99 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: that means that you know, working class and poor kids 100 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: are going to have a much harder time getting loans. 101 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: So that's where I proposed the second part of this, 102 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: which is to make it much easier to get into 103 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: these income based repayment plans where you pay a percentage 104 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: of your income for a certain number of years um 105 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: as your way of paying of paying back your loan. 106 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: And if you have certain you could you could make 107 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: it so that, you know, if you are in the 108 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Peace Corps, if you are a teacher, or if you 109 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: do work on an Indian reservation, or you know, any 110 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: of those kind of things, that that the amount would 111 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: be reduced just because you're doing you know, what amounts 112 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: to public service. So I think between bankruptcy and income repayment, uh, 113 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: you pretty much have the problem solved. Joe, what do 114 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: we know about President elect Biden and his thoughts about 115 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: this issue, because presumably this might be one of the 116 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: things he might want to tackle in this first one days. 117 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: I doubt he'll tackle it in this first one days 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: because it's con contentious, but I do think he does 119 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: want to tackle it. He needs to give something to 120 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: the progressives. Now what I've heard is that, um, what 121 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: he's looking at. You know, Elizabeth Warren wants fifty uh 122 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: wiped away. He and he and she and she wants 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: him to do it through executive order. He would like 124 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: to reduce it simply by ten thousand dollars, and he 125 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: wants to do it through legislation, so it wouldn't look like, 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, by sea I, it wouldn't look like he's 127 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: trying to ram something down those throats. Um, whether he 128 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: could get a past legislation, well, a lot of that 129 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: depends on what happens in Georgia, you know, in early January. 130 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: Um uh, And so we'll just shop to see about that. Yeah. 131 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what kind 132 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: of college you go to, you end up with these 133 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: crushing debts, and then you know, interest rates that are 134 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: insane for for a lot of young people out there 135 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: that are just trying to give themselves an education. I 136 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: know that Joe Biden has definitely talked about pel grounds 137 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: for everybody, but I mean, that's what the tip of 138 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: the iceberg, right Jo, Yes, it is. And I would 139 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: say I'm also about the crushing debt. Don't forget you know, 140 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: kids who drop out of school because they can't keep paying, 141 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: you know that they still have that debt. Kids who 142 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: go to for profit colleges that are turned out to 143 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: be scammed, they still have that debt. So, I mean, 144 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, there's a percentage of people for whom the 145 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: debt is great. They get through college, you know, they 146 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: have a good life, they have you know, they did 147 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: a good job. But there's a whole lot of other people, 148 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: well that doesn't need can happen, and they're still stuck 149 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: with the dad. Yeah, very big issue for a growing 150 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: number of people. Jonah Sarah, thanks so much for joining us. 151 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: Jonah Sarah's a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. You can read 152 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: his work and all the work of Bloomberg Opinion at 153 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, slash Opinion or on the terminal O 154 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: P I N go. Well, we got another dose of 155 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: sobering jobless claims this morning, arguably once again raising the 156 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: incentive for the Fed remaining accommodative and for Congress to 157 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: move forward on a meaningful piece of fiscal stimulus. Let's 158 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: get the latest economic outlook with Lindsay Pegsa, chief economist 159 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: at Steeple Financial, joining us on the phone from Chicago. Lindsay, 160 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. You know, if 161 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: we step back a little bit, we can certainly see 162 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: signs that the economy is through the worst of the 163 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: pandemic UH disruption, but there's still a lot of work 164 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: to do. Given what we heard from FED Chairman Pal 165 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: this week, given what we see on the on the 166 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: job was front of other eco economic data points, where 167 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: do you think we are in the recovery? Well, I said, 168 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: I think we've made it through the first the biggest barrier, 169 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: the biggest top as we saw the worst of the 170 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: pandemic in the second quarter. But that's not to say 171 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: that we're not going to have more difficult times ahead, 172 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: because even if we do see the second round resurgeon 173 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: UH snuffed out at a relatively faster pace than the 174 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: first round. Remember, businesses and individuals are already beginning from 175 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: an extremely fragile position after months of hardship, so it's 176 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: going to be increasingly difficult for them to continue to 177 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: weather a storm without some sort of additional artificial support 178 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: from officials in Washington. So there really has to be 179 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: some increased pressure on our representatives on Capitol Hill to 180 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: really do their job and get some of those funds 181 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: out to hurting individuals and businesses really struggling at this point. 182 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: How concerned you think the FLMC is about the situation, Lindsay, 183 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: I think they're very concerned. I do think that FED 184 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: chairman struck a very delicate line. On the one hand, 185 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: he was trying to be optimistic about the improvement that 186 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: we've seen thus far, particularly in the third quarter, with 187 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: that stellar rise more than offsetting the decline in the 188 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: second quarter, at least in percentage terms. But he was 189 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: also very cautious to say it looks that the virus 190 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: is going to dictate the path of the recovery. It's 191 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: still very uncertain, and while we're optimistic, a number of 192 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: things have to go right, A number of dominoes have 193 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: to fall just perfectly in line in order to really 194 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: navigate ourselves out of this, this unprecedented situation. So I 195 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: do think the FED is increasingly concerned about being able 196 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: to get the economy back on track, but more importantly, 197 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: back to a position of a longer run, sustainable improved trajectory. 198 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: It's not about just a one quarter bounds, but really 199 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: getting the economy back on a pathway towards potential GDP. 200 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: There's a nillion dollar fiscal stimus here, do that, lindsay, 201 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: or do we need even more than that? From your 202 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: perspective this, I do think it will help. I do 203 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: think it will help stabilize the economy. But again, it 204 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: depends on the depth and duration of this second round resurgence. 205 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: If we continue to see businesses shut down, workers sent 206 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: home well into the first quarter, billion is not going 207 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: to do it. So it really depends on how quickly 208 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: we're able to control the virus and how how really 209 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: lenient I would say, local officials are in terms of 210 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: allowing the private market to return to some semblance of 211 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: normal market activity. Remember, this isn't a market crisis, this 212 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: is a health crisis. So the best way to control this, uh, 213 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: this unprecedented scenario is having a meaningful way of separating 214 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: the healthy from the sick, something that we don't have 215 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: at this point. What else can the FED do? At 216 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: this point where you surprised at the fact that the 217 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: SCP skewed a little more positive, No, I wasn't. I 218 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily surprised by that. We did anticipate a little 219 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: bit of an upward revision in terms of the Fed's 220 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: expectation for growth and unemployment because we have seen vast improvements, 221 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: in fact, faster than expected improvement. As I mentioned in 222 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: the third quarter, carrying forward through October and somewhat in November. 223 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: So it does make sense that the FET is reflecting 224 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: that improved baseline scenario. But going forward, I do think 225 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: that the FED has put so many tremendous proposals and 226 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: plans in place that at this point that there's very 227 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: little additional they can do to support the market or 228 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: support the economy. It really has to come from fiscal 229 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: policy support at this point, and the FED all but 230 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: handed that proverbial batime over to our officials in Washington, saying, look, 231 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: we've done everything we can up to this point. Now 232 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: it's up to you guys to again do your job 233 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: and reach an agreement and get those much needed funds 234 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: out to those that are hurting the worst, including small 235 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: businesses and individuals that have lost their job through no 236 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: faults of their own, but by the government's own design. 237 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: H lindsay, briefly, what's the steeple four Q GDP call 238 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: and GDP call. I do think there's enough strength in 239 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: October and November to carry growth in positive territory in 240 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: the fourth quarter. So I am looking for low single 241 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: digit growth around four or five percent for the fourth quarter, 242 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: certainly a decline from that rebound that we saw on 243 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: the third quarter, but still a very a very welcomed 244 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: improvement in terms of growth going forward, however, into the 245 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: first quarter. Right now, our baseline scenario is less than 246 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: one percent GDP, with a downside risk of the U 247 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: S economy falling back into negative territory if we do 248 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: see a continued drag out of this second round resurgence 249 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: without additional support from the federal government. Lindsay, you have 250 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: to live there, but thank you so much for joining us, 251 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: and uh, maybe speak to you again before the end 252 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: of the year. If not, we'll talk to you in January. 253 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: That's Lindsay, pe TV economists add Stephile Nicholas joining us 254 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: there and pull. It's really just so fascinating to see 255 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: the data come in and some of it poor, some 256 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: of it okay. It really is so obviously a caeshaped recovery. 257 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: It really is. And I think the concern here is 258 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: is Lindsay suggested not getting a handle in the near 259 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: term on this pandemic. Another industry that's had a very 260 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: tough year is the home health business. Those going into 261 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: people's homes protecting the aging population. And so on. Charlie 262 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: Young is the CEO of Synergy home Care, located in 263 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: New Jersey. It's one of the leading in home care 264 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: organizations that operates in three markets. Charlie, first of all, 265 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: before we get onto the vaccine vaccine rollout, tell us 266 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: how your business has been going and what changes you've 267 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: had to make thanks to the pandemic. Well, first of all, Fanny, 268 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm 269 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: actually out in Arizona, so I missed that beautiful snowstorm 270 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: that you are just that. Uh. The business of home 271 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: care has has seen quite a bit of demand, as 272 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: you can imagine obviously. Uh, people are looking to make 273 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: sure that they are safe and one of the safest 274 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: places to be is at home. Like many industries, senior care, 275 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: home care, December this is prime time for us UM 276 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: and the reason for that is generally this is when 277 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: families get together. This is when families gather usually for extended, 278 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: extended areod of time and adult children often times see 279 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: that mom or dad or another senior love one of 280 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: theirs needs more care and more more help. Um. We're 281 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: not having that this year. Um uh, So we're trying 282 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: to help people understand how that they can support their 283 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: loved ones and look for the things that they need 284 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: uh to help them to continue to thrive at home, 285 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: even though they might not be there in person. But 286 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: to your to your point, the business has been been 287 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: doing quite well because the demand for home care during 288 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: the pandemic is quite high. Charlie, your employees, they are 289 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: just the definition of frontline workers. Here a couple of 290 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: points here how to how they've been faring Number one 291 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: and number two. Um, presumably they will be one of 292 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: the first to get the vaccine. What if we can 293 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: you tell us about that? Yeah? Well, first of all, 294 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I mean, there's no more noble cause 295 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: than to be a caregiver who goes into another's home 296 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: UH to take care of them. Our mission at Synergy 297 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: own cares to help people thrive at home, and that's 298 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: what these people do every single day. UH. As you know, 299 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: the response to the pandemic has been decentralized across the country, 300 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: with states all having different approaches and oftentimes trickling down 301 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: to local UH and county governmental decisions. So UM, you know, 302 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: what we're seeing is that our home care workers are 303 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: being treated as essential. Some places, but not in others. 304 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: Really encouraged. I did get a call from a franchise 305 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: e of ours in New Jersey this morning. They were 306 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: called by their county health department yesterday asking for a 307 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: list of their caregivers so that they could be put 308 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: on uh that priority list for the vaccine. And uh, 309 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: I only uh wish it was that way all over 310 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: the country. So Charlie talked us about how franchise e 311 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: that works. Are all of your home all of your 312 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: businesses in the various dates franchise run and uh and 313 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: how do they pay you a fee? And what do 314 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: you provide to them? Yeah? Absolutely so, uh, you know, 315 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: we are a franchise business. We uh we really offer 316 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: the promise to help care minded uh compassionate entrepreneurs build 317 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: a robust business. We do that in four basic ways. 318 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: We provide a home care platform everything that you need 319 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: to run a home care business, from the initial training, 320 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: the software and other tech backbone that you need, uh, 321 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: and then all the marketing that goes with it. We 322 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: provide all the local lead generation marketing, referral partnerships with 323 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: insurance and health organizations, and obviously a network of people 324 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: who have done this before. Uh, and so when you 325 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: have over three seventy markets around the country, there's a 326 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: robust group of people who have experience and can help there. 327 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: That's another area of our business has grown quite well 328 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: during the pandemic is the franchising side. We're selling home 329 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: care franchises. I think that's a function of two things. 330 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: One is, you know, the the economic situation in the country. 331 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: Many people have been downsized and are out of work 332 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: and are looking for a new chapter in their lives. 333 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: And then I think when you look at the the 334 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: the upside for home care in the years to come 335 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: starts with demographics. Uh, it starts with a shift in 336 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: in in thinking about the whole healthcare continuum. It's a 337 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: it's a business to be in and so we've done 338 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: well there over the last nine months as well. So 339 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: it was I just curious, why would somebody need to 340 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: buy into a franchise if they want to, you know, 341 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: be in the home care business. Can they not just 342 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: do it? You could? You could just do it. You 343 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: would be faced with a much steeper learning curve and 344 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: startup curve because when you when you join a synergy 345 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: of home care franchise, you're gonna have all of your 346 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: systems in place from day one. So that is a 347 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: thought process as a business owner that you don't need 348 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: to go through. You're going to have the software, software 349 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: platform for billing, for scheduling, for recruiting caregivers, all of 350 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. You're gonna have the marketing platform 351 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: for lead generation. And because we have a national footprint, 352 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: we have uh, national partners who are bringing referral business 353 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: to us. Uh you know, and so so it's a 354 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: it's a it is a way to get up and 355 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: running and uh uh much more, much more efficiently. Yeah, 356 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: go ahead. Interesting, Charlie, thanks so much for joining us. 357 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: It's a really an interesting time for you and your business. 358 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure, Charlie young Ief, executive officer for Synergy Home Care, 359 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: obviously seeing increased demand during these pandemic times. Now, let's 360 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: bring in Bloomberg journalist to Molly Smith. A fantastic story 361 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Today and it relates to minority owned 362 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: underwriting firms and how they benefited from a new detention 363 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: on social justice issues, particularly this summer after Floyd's killing. 364 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: But they say that actual institutional barriers are keeping them 365 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: from gaining a bigger share of the corporate debt market, 366 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: and it really is a phenomenal, molly great story. First 367 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: of all, give us a rundown of some of the 368 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: firms that you're talking about. Sure, So when we talk 369 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: about diverse underwriters, these are banks that are owned by minorities, women, 370 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: and veterans. So we talked to several of the prominent 371 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: African American owned banks like Luke Capital, playlog Van, We 372 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: talked to several veteran owned banks like Drexel Hamilton's Academy Securities, 373 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: and a lot of these banks really trace their roots 374 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: back to UH the civil rights movement, and that's when 375 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them got started and in underwriting bonds 376 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: for America's local governments, and that's why they've done so 377 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: well in the municipal bond market, where where America's leadership 378 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: at the local government level, excuse me, is tends to 379 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: be much more diverse in nature itself. You transition them 380 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: to the corporate market, and America's companies are hardly as 381 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: diverse in nature at the leadership level than the cities are, 382 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: and it just hasn't been as integral and natural of 383 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: emission on the corporate market. So'm only I know historically 384 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: some of the challenges for some of these minority on 385 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: banks as it relates to uh, the corporate market is 386 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: lack of adequate capital and maybe even staffing and so on. 387 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 1: So what's the story there. The biggest obstacle that a 388 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: lot of the banks will point to is that they 389 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: are set up as solely investment banks, meaning that they 390 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: don't have commercial banking abilities as well. And that's what 391 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: makes the biggest banks on wall streets such a formidable 392 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: force in this space, so that they are able to 393 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,479 Speaker 1: provide cheap loans to companies with the expectation of winning 394 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: the more lucrative capital markets business in return. And when 395 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: you're just an investment bank that's not in your wheelhouse, 396 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: you don't have, you know, provide these credit facilities to companies. 397 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: So the lend these diverse underwriters have had to be 398 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: much more creative and how they get into deals, and 399 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: that's that's what key obstacle that they pointed to that's 400 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: keeping them from moving forward. Yeah, I mean earlier this 401 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: year when by Lackman was ringing his back to sort 402 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: of the public attention, he pointed to the fact that 403 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: he used minority owned underwriters for setting up some of 404 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: the deal, but if you looked at it, it was 405 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: actually you know, a small sliver of the deal, but 406 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: they did have permanent capital was going to be you 407 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: know something, and he was trying to get other people 408 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: on Mole Street to do this as well. There was 409 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: no downside according to him. Why are they not doing it? 410 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: What is the big big setback? Are they afraid of 411 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: the big banks like David Morgan and Goldman's X I 412 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: don't I think that they're starting to come around to it, 413 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: because when the All State deal, at least in my 414 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: opinion and for definitely a lot of these banks too, 415 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: was a really big turning point and showing that they 416 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: that All State had borrowed one point two billion dollars. 417 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: I believe it was last month, and this was the 418 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: biggest deal ever managed solely by diverse firms. And all 419 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: State is a major US companies. Certainly they have banking 420 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: relationships with the biggest Wall Street banks and they actually 421 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: consulted with some of those banks before this bond sale, 422 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: and all of them, including Brian moynihan from Bank of America, 423 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: said they thought this was a great idea and something 424 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: that all states should definitely pave the way in doing so. 425 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: I think there is more receptiveness to us. But certainly 426 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: there is just that stigma. It's not, you know, a 427 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: start and set rule in any way, but companies just 428 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: naturally tend to look at their lending partners when looking 429 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: at capital markets like ativities. Is there any incentive for 430 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: companies to change I'm thinking about E s G investing, 431 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: is that maybe could be a criteria for certain investors 432 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: to say, hey, we want your advisors, whether it's your 433 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: legal advisors or your financial advisors, to be more diverse. 434 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: Is that an angle perhaps, certainly, and that's something that uh, 435 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of companies they cannot fulfill D 436 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: and I mandates through their capital markets group as well. 437 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of them are starting to 438 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: look at this in the new light. And certainly you're 439 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: seeing as well with Goldman and NASDAC requiring companies to 440 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: have diverse leadership in the at the board level, that 441 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: it's becoming much more significant that they're going to be 442 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: real consequences that if you could be delisted from an 443 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: exchange if you don't have if you're not inclusive in 444 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: your board representation, that's a really big deal. So I 445 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: think companies are really going to be waking up to 446 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: this more. But certainly that is what these diverse banks 447 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: are looking for, that this isn't just a thing, it 448 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: is a sustainable trend. You quote Eric van Standifer, who's 449 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: the founder and chief executive author of Laylock, saying, they're 450 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: still giving us qualms and just giving us more crumbs. 451 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: It seems to be so you know, at the margin, 452 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: you know it needs to be a much more major 453 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: sort of movement, doesn't it. That's exactly it, because these firms, 454 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: that's why all State was so significant that they took 455 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: on lead manager roles versus in the Google deal which 456 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: he was talking about. Google brought on fifteen diverse co 457 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: managers for this deal. So that means that they've walked 458 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: away with just two hundred sixty thousand dollars in fees 459 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: each versus the three biggest underwriters got more than seven 460 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: million dollars each. So it's just like, of course, you 461 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,239 Speaker 1: want to spread the wealth, so to speak, but when 462 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: you include so many firms on one deal, it's just 463 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: being spread out among that many more people. Hey, Molly, 464 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us and sharing this 465 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: story really well reported. Molly Smith, corporate finance reporter for 466 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Thanks for listening to Boomberg Markets podcast. You 467 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or 468 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn, I'm on 469 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: Twitter at Bonnie Quinn, and I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on 470 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always 471 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio