1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Congressman Chuck Edwards has dropped his 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: reelection bid after being censured. We have such a great 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: show for you today. Democracy Docket's own Mark Elias stops 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: by to talk about Trump's lawless plans for the midterms. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to the New York Times own Shamee 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: Goldmocker about how the primaries are shaken out and a 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: little trouble at the DNC. But first the news. 10 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: Smillie, big big night of elections last night. I think 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: there's some pretty interesting things here that will really actually 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: be consequential come both November and the shape of the 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: party here. I'm curious, though. I think the most interesting 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 2: one is what happened in Kansas. Since you and I 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: have been talking about how much this is going to 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: be an election about data centers, we saw a massive, 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: massive clitical up so lustily. 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: Yes, so let's talk about this data centers. Are You 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: and I both know we have traveled this country, or 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: at least I went to Arizona and I'm planning to 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: go to New Orleans. So I've been to places and 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: people are not happy with data centers. And you know 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: why they're not happy with them because they're terrible. They 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: use water, they use electricity, they make noise, they're huge, 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: they don't employ that many people. Voters hate them, and 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: they make your electricity more expensive. I mean, there's literally 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: no case for data centers. And the woman who ran 28 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: for the Democratic nomination of the Kansas governor, and I 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: want to add that, you know, you think Kansas is 30 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: a red state, but the governor they have now is 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: also a Democrat. So having a Democratic governor in Kansas 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: is not unheard of. In fact, it may repeat. But 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: this woman is called Cindy Holscher, and she is a 34 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: state senator, and she is endorsed by the current Democratic governor, 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: Laura Kelly. So data centers are an eighty twenty issue 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: and really really just the pine of thing. Democrats can 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: win on data centers. 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: Well, I think last night showed that they can win 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: on saying we're going to put money back into your 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 2: community and not send it to farm wares. One of 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: the lessons of this primary, though, is I think better 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: care for all is one and the same with we're 43 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: going to put the money back. Intor cree. It's that 44 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: we're not sending your money to you getting denied care 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: that you should get just so that there could be 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: higher corporate board earnings. 47 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, exactly. 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: So, speaking of the other big shakeup truth outed, our 49 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: long time US congressman lost their seat, and of course 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: doctor abdel l said won the Michigan setup by much 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 2: less than we expected, but did have a victory that 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: I think is going to really shake things up. He's 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: already said he will not support Chuck Schumer as majority 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: leader and will support Chris van Holland. And he seems 55 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: very contrary to what some people say, he seems very 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: very well suited to beat Mike Rogers in the general 57 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: since Mike Rogers ran nine hundred thousand votes behind Donald 58 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: Trump in the last election. 59 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm more anxious about doctor l sayid, because I 60 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: think that it's just a hard road. But there is 61 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: a question of, like, you know, whether running a center's 62 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: candidate is in a swing state works better than running 63 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: a progressive in a swing state, Like that's a real 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: question is like do you lose crossover voters if you 65 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: do that? And do you suppress your left base, because 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: the reality is like in Michigan in twenty sixteen, Bernie one, right, 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: so that is a real thing. 68 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I should correct myself. I'm sorry Rogers ran one 69 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty two thousand votes behind. But to your 70 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: point with Bernie one, Abdul has a very interesting thing 71 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: where he's talked about the trend in Michigan has been 72 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: to vote for somebody who will do change. And one 73 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: of the reasons that many people have observed that Kamala 74 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: didn't do as well in Michigan as people would have 75 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: thought is that on the ground there, they thought it 76 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 2: was gonna be a continuation of Biden, and they had 77 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: grown very, very very tired of Biden's policies in Michigan. Yeah, 78 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 2: but it seems that also they did not buy rogers 79 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 2: bullshit by a much bigger margin than they did buy 80 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: Trump's bullshit. And I don't think that that's gotten any better, 81 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: as he's just sold himself to whoever will pay for him, 82 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: which is he's done throughout his career and helped cause 83 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: the opioid crisis. 84 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: Yes, he was very involved in pharmaceutical companies, et cetera. 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. I'm sure we'll talk about 86 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: Michigan endlessly, and it's his sendency. The Democrats that desperately 87 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: need to hold publicans are in so much trouble here. 88 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I saw last night, 89 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: which I would actually like to read you, Amy Walter 90 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: from the Cook Political Report, very smart. She says, if 91 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: you went through the two thousand and six cycle, this 92 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: year feels like deja vu. In two thousand and six, 93 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: at this point, w Bush had thirty seven percent approval rating. 94 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: Trump is about there. The generic ballot in September of 95 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: six was a D plus six point five. That's about 96 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: the same, though it might be what in both yours 97 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: unpopular WARS members in sex scandals. So I just think 98 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: it's a good that's a real thing. And speak of 99 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: sex scandals, we have it's not a sex scandal, but 100 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: it's many times Wars. These abuse allegations against Max Miller. 101 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not good. Apparently he's saying Mike Johnson has 102 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: his back. 103 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So Max Miller, member of Congress from Ohio, married 104 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: the order of the Senator from Ohio called Bernie Moreno, 105 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: they're getting divorced. There are allegations he abused tour. There 106 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: are allegations he broke the two year old daughter's collarbone. Yesterday, 107 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: he was on all of the different news stations. He 108 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: talked to Tapper, he went on Newsmax. He said that 109 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: his daughter couldn't speak a sentence. Then he said that 110 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: his daughter said he was scared of the mother. There 111 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: was a lot of contradicting each other. There was a 112 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: question of why he had needles. He said he takes testonstone. 113 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: It was a really good example of why when you're 114 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: defending yourself, you're losing. And he also said during this 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: time that Mike Johnson had his back. Well, Mike Johnson, 116 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: well not brave, does not necessarily have Max Miller's back. 117 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's the thing is this is 118 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: the albatross hanging on their neck for this cycle. Everybody's 119 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: going to tie the Republican's refusal to have him step down. 120 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: To this and tomorrow is the deadline. So if he 121 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: doesn't drop out by tomorrow, he cannot be replaced on 122 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: the ballot. 123 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: Yep. And it's already looking like they're going to lose 124 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: that seat pretty badly if he stays it. I think 125 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: I saw fourteen points behind. He's running so well deserved. Also, 126 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: it's dragging down Bernie Marino in this Miller insinuated yesterday 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: what has been reported and George Santos said on the 128 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: congressional four before, which is Marino as a closeted homosexual. 129 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: Wait, when he was still in Congress. 130 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: Yes, well, keep in mind, he said in the halls 131 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: of Congress in an interview. I watched it yesterday. 132 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean again, George Santos, I want to talk about 133 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: George Santos. He's not in Congress. He is the bravo 134 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: congressman from the state of dismay and despair. 135 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: Molly, you know you're getting out the shirt for your birthday, 136 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: that says George Santos warned us. 137 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about this anymore. Speaking of things that 138 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: people don't want to talk about, Let's talk about Donald 139 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: Trump's Great American Fair sponsors. 140 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: Great American State Fair sponsors. He hid millions of donations 141 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: for of Yes, I want. 142 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: To point out that this summer we celebrated the two 143 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth anniversary of America. And what did we 144 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: get for that, Well, Donald Trump got a lot of money. 145 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll be shocked. To hear that every time there's 146 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: something that he can find a way to smuggle some 147 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: money in, he takes the opportunity. 148 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: I just want to talk about the companies involved, because 149 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: it's like a who's who of everyone who's bad. Palent Here, 150 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: Bowen Excellent Mobile, perhaps you remember them from Killing our Planet, 151 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: United Healthcare Group, and more defense contractors Lockheed Martin, ge Aerospace. 152 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: What I think is the most important part here, and 153 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: this is reporting from notice, is that a lot of 154 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: people did not disclose the money they gave, which is 155 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: a violation of the Federal Lobbying Disclosure Act. And I 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: know you're surprised to hear that people were doing illegal 157 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: stuff in the Trump White House, but they were. So 158 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: there's influenced. At best, it's influence trading. Ed worst, it's bribery. 159 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: And here it is the question of freedom to fifty. 160 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: The answer is it was bribery. Mark Elias is the 161 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: founder of Democracy Docket. Welcome, Welcome, Mark. 162 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 163 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: Let mether. 164 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: Whether it's terribly oppressive. 165 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: Yes, how do you think? So let's talk about the midterms, 166 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: where we just are cruising into the midterms. There's so 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: much anxiety, like Donald Trump is clearly worried about the midterms, 168 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: which is why he wants always to say to pass 169 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: the Save Act because he's worried that too many people 170 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: will vote. I saw these Michigan numbers from last night. 171 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: Republican primary voters are like very at a low ebb 172 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: in Michigan. Like, what is Donald Trump's plan for the midterms? 173 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: So first of all, we are ninety days from the 174 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 3: mid elections, so this is a critical date for reasons 175 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: that we can get into legally, it will become harder 176 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: for Donald Trump to pull off what he's trying to 177 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: pull off. But I think if you, if you want 178 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: to know, like what the macro plan is, Donald Trump 179 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: is not doing the things a president would do if 180 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: they thought they could improve their popularity. He's not doing 181 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: the things that you would do even if you didn't 182 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: think you could improve your popularity, but you were trying 183 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: to motivate your own base voters. So I think it's 184 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: pretty clear what he is doing is he is putting 185 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: all of his eggs in the voter suppression and election 186 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: subversion basket, which is why, rather than prioritizing legislation that might, 187 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: for example, you know, improve his popularity, or even be 188 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: a sugar rush, like a tax cut, right, something like that. Right, 189 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: he is prioritizing things like the Same Act because he's 190 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: figured out that they're that the voters have figured the 191 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: voters know who he is, you know what I mean. Like, 192 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: I was thinking about this the other day, Molly, because 193 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 3: I was talking to our mutual friend Nicole Wallace, and like, 194 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 3: there got to be a point, like in two thousand 195 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: and six, or people had just figured out who George 196 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: Bush was and they weren't going to move off of them. 197 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: And I think, like that's where Donald Trump is. So 198 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: he has figured out that his only effort, his only chance, 199 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: is to try to make it harder for people to vote, 200 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 3: an easier for him to cheat. 201 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: So let's talk about that, because I think that is 202 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: so important. Harder to vote, easier to cheat. What's he 203 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: doing to make it harder to vote? So the harder 204 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: the vote. 205 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: Portion of the program has a few components. The first 206 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: is obviously him trying to enact the Save Act. Right, 207 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: the Save Act would make it dramatically harder for certain 208 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: voters to vote, and in particular, it would impact black 209 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: voters who have lower rates of passport ownership. Than white voters. Right, 210 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: So proving citizenship just for people to keep in mind, 211 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 3: only two documents do that number. One is a US passport, 212 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: the other is an original burst certificate. So black voters 213 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: would be negatively impacted on passports. Married women would be 214 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 3: negatively impacted on birth certificates because seventy percent of married 215 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 3: women have changed their last name at marriage, and so 216 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 3: there is a mismatch between that birth certificate surname and 217 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 3: the surname they currently have. So a birth certificate alone 218 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: won't actually prove citizenship for the vast majority of women 219 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: who are married. And before people say, yeah, but isn't 220 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: it mostly Republican women. Don't more Republican women change their 221 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: last name than Democratic married women. The answer is probably, 222 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 3: But the truth is seventy percent of. 223 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: Right, it's humanous. 224 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's like just it's a big pool. And 225 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 3: when you look at the gender gap between men and women, 226 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: like you start to see how this all holds together. 227 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about the other part. So there's 228 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: maying it harder to vote, but then there's the other part, 229 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: which is trying to sort of subvert the elections to 230 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: dirty tricks. How worried are you about that and talk 231 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: us through what you think. Yeah. 232 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: So I think that the most abnormal of all of 233 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: the abnormalness of the way Donald Trump is going out 234 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: this election is how direct he is being about the 235 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 3: second right, Like you and I could have done this 236 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: podcast in two thousand and fifteen, for example, twenty sixteen 237 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 3: and said, okay, Republicans have a plan to suppress voting rates, right, 238 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: and like we would have we would have said, okay, 239 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: this is what they were doing. We you and I talked, 240 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 3: you know, in twenty twenty one after the voter suppression 241 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 3: laws that Republicans trumpeted about voter suppression. So like, in 242 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 3: some ways voter suppression has been a Republican tool that 243 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: they trod out that they are constantly trying to use. 244 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 3: But what's really alarming is that Donald Trump is being 245 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 3: pretty direct on the second part of this, which is 246 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 3: like trying to subvert the outcome of the election, trying 247 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: to overturn the will of the voters. And that is 248 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: molly a historic. I mean, obviously he did it after 249 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 3: twenty twenty, but you don't really see historically Republicans like saying, Okay, 250 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 3: our plan is. 251 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: To subvert the outcome. 252 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 3: So I'm quite worried because it is so much more 253 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: baked into the atmosphere of the Republican Party. And so 254 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: it's not just like it's not just Donald Trump like 255 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: wandering the halls of the White House at night, adding 256 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 3: you know, fake gold to the to various parts saying 257 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: I need to subvert the election on social media. It's 258 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 3: actually an entire infrastructure that includes the Department of Justice, 259 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: includes the Republican Party, includes down ballot Republican candidates, includes 260 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: election officials who have been put in place since the 261 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: twenty twenty elections. So I'm quite worried about it. It 262 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: doesn't mean I'm hopeless about it. It doesn't mean I'm 263 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: I'm you know, I am resigned to it. We're going 264 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: to fight against it, and I think will win. But 265 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: people need to unders this is a genuine threat. 266 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, the lawlessness that Donald Trump has. One of the 267 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: things that I'm a little bit obsessed with is a 268 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: reflecting pool, because it's one of those things where Donald 269 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: Trump has come up against reality in a way that 270 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: now has messed up his relationship with Judge Piro. And 271 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: I wonder if you know, because basically he said it 272 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: was vandalism. His director of the interior, Doug Bergham, also 273 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: agreed vandalism, but the court said no, no vandalism, shoddy construction, 274 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: and Judge box of wine has come up against reality. Right, 275 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: So talk us through, like why I think of this 276 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: as just such an interesting case for this moment. 277 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: It is, and I wrote about this actually for Democracy Docket, 278 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: and the analogy I drew was Rudy Giuliani. You know 279 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: it is if you remember on November seventh, twenty twenty, 280 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: he stands in the parking lot of the Four Seasons 281 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: Landscaping Company, the victim of an advancer who apparently must 282 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 3: have thought that the Four Seasons is the Fourth Seasons 283 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: is the Fourth Seasons. But nevertheless, suffering the indignity of 284 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 3: standing in the parking lot did not stop Rudy Giuliani, 285 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: and he told a series of preposterous lies about the 286 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: twenty twenty election in Pennsylvania. A few days later, he 287 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 3: finds himself in a sutin tie, sitting in a courtroom 288 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: with a federal judge who is questioning him about the 289 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 3: claims that they are asserting. And Rudy Giuliani famously and 290 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: firstly says this is not a fraud case. We are 291 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: not alleging fraud, okay. And that is the dichotomy that 292 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: I think has overtaken the Republican Party ever since. It 293 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: is the lying in the parking lot and then confronted 294 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: by federal judges in the courtroom having to concede that 295 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: the things that are being said in the parking lot 296 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 3: are not actually part of legal cases. And this periodically 297 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 3: flares up, and you're exactly right. This flared up with 298 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 3: the reflecting pool, which is that you had Janine Pierro 299 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: who initially is telling the same lies. Right, She's like, 300 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: you know, she's like on board with the whole you know, 301 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: this is vandalism. They wrongfully charge an innocent man with 302 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 3: a crime. 303 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: Who happens to be an Olympian. 304 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 3: Who happens to be an olympian, And then you know, 305 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 3: when the rubber meets the road, and now they're going 306 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 3: to like have to like show up in federal courtrooms, 307 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 3: right because what people need to understand to indict someone, 308 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 3: there's no judge really involved in that process. It is 309 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 3: just a prosecutor in a grand jury room alone with 310 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 3: the grand jurors. But now this is going to be 311 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: like contested proceedings and a judge is going to look 312 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: at this, and all of a sudden, Jeaneine Pierro or 313 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 3: lawyers under her, you know, are like, wait a second, 314 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 3: we like can't go forward this thing because it's like 315 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: it's demonstrably not true. But Molly, I want to turn 316 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: it back on you for a second because I think 317 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 3: the other really interesting thing that has not been commented 318 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 3: on about this reflecting pool is that wasn't Doug Burgham 319 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: supposed to be the normal one in the cabinet, Like 320 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: remember he was the moderate governor of I think North Dakota. 321 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 3: He's like a self made man and a billionaire and 322 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 3: like right, right, And like the theory was, well, maybe 323 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: he's going into the Interior Department because he's from North Dakota, 324 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: but he's not really going to be one of the 325 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: Maga crazies. And now oddly he is to the crazy 326 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 3: side of Janine Piro, who is one of the crazies. 327 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: It's funny because I actually know some people who had 328 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: who worked with Doug Burgham who told me that he 329 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: is not as bad as even like a Christino, right, 330 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: And they both come from Dakota's and I think the 331 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: story here that should be the top line, and is 332 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: I think a cautionary tale for all is that Trump 333 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: is an infects. Right. You get if you are an 334 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: insecure person in any which way and you get in 335 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: a room with that guy, sooner or later, you're doing 336 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: the unconscionable in the hopes of getting him to love you. 337 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, I think that that is exactly the 338 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: tale of this era is people who have sacrificed their 339 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: dignity and reputations simply to be in Donald Trump's good graces. 340 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 3: And you know, I mentioned Giuliani, but let's you know, 341 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 3: we could we could start with him. I mean, people forget, 342 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: really Giuliani after nine to eleven was a extremely popular 343 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: figure in this country. And when people talked about him 344 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: running for president, like it was not as a joke, 345 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 3: Like people thought, this guy could run for president and 346 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 3: be the president the United States. And you know, he 347 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 3: could have a successful law practice, he had a successful 348 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: consulting practice, whatever it is, and he literally just gave 349 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: that all away, like and I use the word gave 350 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 3: on purpose, like literally gave it away, gave it away 351 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 3: to Donald Trump, and now look at him. 352 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's exactly the right phrase. 353 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: He gave it away, and he and he gave it away. 354 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: And even like Piro is a more complicated figure, but 355 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: she did, she was actually she did have a real job. 356 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: And even Todd Blanche, you know, I was talking to 357 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: someone from the DJ like he was the serious I mean, 358 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: you know this story, Todd Blanche was the serious guy. Yeah. 359 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Todd Blanche is another example, absolutely as a great 360 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: a great example. I mean, Todd Blanche was a federal 361 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: prosecutor in the southern gustry of New York I think 362 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 3: actually hired by pre Perarra was by all accounts, a 363 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: very well respected federal prosecutor, someone who you know, understood 364 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 3: the proper role of federal proscuers. He then goes and 365 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: comes a partner at one of the most prestigious law 366 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 3: firms in New York City, like you know, like, let 367 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 3: I'll say this as someone who has been a partner 368 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 3: at a big firm in Washington, d c. And now 369 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: has my own law firm, Like being a partner at 370 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 3: a big firm in New York City is kind of 371 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: the top of the. 372 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: Top, but it's like millions of dollars. 373 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 3: You make millions of dollars. But you're also you're in 374 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 3: the circles of finance, and you know, New York's a 375 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: very dynamic as you know, since you get invited to 376 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 3: all the fancy people dinner parties, like. 377 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: It's at the record show. I'm making a face in 378 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: a ridiculous face. 379 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 3: Continue, right, But it can be a very like when 380 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: you're in that echelon, you get to meet a lot 381 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: of really interesting people in addition to making, as you say, 382 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: a lot of money. And he gave all of that away, 383 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 3: gave all of that away, and for what to be 384 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: Donald Trump's attorney general? Like answer this, which of Donald 385 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: Trump's former attorney generals are better off for having done it? 386 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: Session? 387 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 3: Body right, let's starr with Jeff Sessions. Jeff Sessions gave 388 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: up a Senate seat, wound up attacked by Donald Trump. 389 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: Bill Barr could have been retired as George Bush's attorney general, 390 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: came back and winds up being deposed by the January 391 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: sixth Commission, like basically saying this was all a bunch 392 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 3: of fucking bullshit. Then you have Pam Bondy, Right, look 393 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 3: what happened to her? Like does he really think this 394 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 3: is going to end up any better. 395 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: No, And the thing that I think is really important 396 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: when you think about this time is sooner or later, 397 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: the rule of law will come back, right like, and 398 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: there will be just like the courts have held, there 399 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: will be like maybe Donald Trump will never go to jail. 400 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: Probably he won't, and maybe his kids will. But there 401 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of people doing a lot of really 402 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: illegal stuff, making money, doing self dealing. Those people are 403 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: going to go to jail. 404 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, So two things I'd say. Number one, Donald Trump 405 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 3: is an old man, Like Donald Trump is an old man. 406 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, by the time he has done with his 407 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 3: presidency will be in his mid mid eighties. And so 408 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: you're right, like I think Donald Trump will live out 409 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: the rest of his days as the former president, you know, 410 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: barking at paintings in Marlacco and that'll be it. And 411 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 3: maybe you're right in the end he pardons his kids, 412 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 3: who knows, you know, but maybe he does that and 413 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 3: they and they wind up being okay. Although remember federal 414 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: partons don't affect state crimes, right. 415 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, there's so much stuff that this crew 416 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: is doing right now, right, So, like, whether. 417 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 3: It's the kids or someone else, like, like, none of 418 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: these people will be covered by from state prosecutions, and 419 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: that includes, by the way, state tax violence. Right, we 420 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 3: talk about the immunity that they got that Donald Trump 421 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 3: got with the federal taxes doesn't affect state taxes. But 422 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 3: for everyone else, I would ask them three questions. Number One, 423 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: are you really so sure Donald Trump is going to 424 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: issue a pardon at the end? I mean Donald Trump 425 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 3: told people who was going to pardon at the end 426 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: of his first term, and there were all of these 427 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 3: examples of people asking him for pardons and he didn't 428 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 3: issue any. Okay. Number one. Number Two, again, if you're 429 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 3: Todd Blanche or you're Doug Bergham, like, is that how 430 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 3: you want to go out? You want to go out 431 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 3: as a sort of a disgraced figure for a disgraced 432 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 3: administration that got pardoned, Like, are you really then better 433 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 3: off than you were like before going into this? And 434 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 3: then finally, and this is the one, Molly that I 435 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 3: have a really hard time with. And you know, you 436 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: have kids and I have kids. 437 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I in the. 438 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 3: End, you know, want my children and my children's children 439 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: and others to look back on this era as they 440 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 3: will and feel like, you know, what I did the 441 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: best I could and was I perfect? 442 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: No? 443 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: Did I get it all right? 444 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 4: No? 445 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 3: But but fundamentally for the big fight of this time, 446 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 3: which is what this is going to be, like which 447 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 3: side would ion? And I think people and my kids 448 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: will say, I always on the right side. And I 449 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 3: don't understand how for Todd Blanche or Doug Bergham or 450 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: any of these folks Pam Bondy, like, history's not going 451 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 3: to remember like the details of like oh you opened 452 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 3: this public land or closed this public land or even 453 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: the reflecting pool, but they will generally know whether when 454 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: democracy was at stake, you know, you were working for 455 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 3: Like I said, the good guys are the bad guys 456 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 3: like you, you know, like today Molly, Like if someone 457 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 3: says this person worked with doctor King, right, this person 458 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: worked with bull Connor, Like it doesn't really matter what 459 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 3: they were doing for bull Connor. It doesn't even matter 460 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 3: so much what they were doing for doctor King, Like 461 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: history has a way of fuzzing that over. And I 462 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 3: just don't understand why these people want to be remembered 463 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: for being on the side of authoritarianism when that will 464 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 3: be the big historical marker. 465 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: It's absolutely just totally baffling and strange. 466 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 3: And I think that, but then ply you look, I mean, 467 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 3: I'm going to take this sort of into the New 468 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: York City world. You know, we've been talking about the 469 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 3: DC world, which is where I live. And we could 470 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: say the same thing about John Thune. We could say 471 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: the same thing about a lot of the senators, the 472 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 3: Republican senators. But you know, I also I look at 473 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: the business titans, the people who have all of the 474 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 3: money in the world, all of the money in the world. 475 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: You know, they're running Amazon, They're running they're shooting things 476 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: into space, They're they're running investment banks or big publicly 477 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 3: traded companies. They've got everything they could possibly want and don't. 478 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 3: And you would think they too are facing this choice, 479 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 3: and wouldn't they want to be on the right side. 480 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 3: And yet I continuously read on X or read about 481 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 3: on X them writing these long, embarrassing screeds, and I 482 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 3: just don't get what they think they're doing. 483 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: It's also just so at a moment when in a 484 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: quality wealth inequality is the highest has ever been, and 485 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: we're clearly heading towards the reckoning, why these people can't 486 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: just make a slightly less disgusting decision at this moment 487 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: is sort of shocking. 488 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 2: It really is. 489 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: Mark, Thank you, thank you, Thank you. 490 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 3: Well, Molly, I love your podcast. I'm glad you invited 491 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 3: me back. It's been a while. 492 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: Will you come back? I will. 493 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: I was going to say, I'm going to do this 494 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: on the air so that Molly has to have me back. 495 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: Oh, We'll always have you back. I'm a fan. 496 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 4: All right, Well, thank you. 497 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: Shane Goldmacher is a national political correspondent for The Nearing Times. Welcome, Welcome, Shane, 498 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Okay, so you have many things 499 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: that you need to talk to us about, because you 500 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: have a really big story that I want to talk 501 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: to you about. But first I want to talk to 502 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: you about the Michigan primaries that you have been covering. 503 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: Talk us through the polling was like doctor elsaid is 504 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: going to win by I saw twelve, I saw eighteen. 505 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: What happened? 506 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 4: I mean, we don't yet know what happened with the 507 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 4: polling other than it was wildly inaccurate and like not 508 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 4: for the first time this year. In fact, that you know, 509 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: I was thinking this morning, the two most expensive primaries 510 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 4: in the country were this one and the Texas Republican 511 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 4: primary at the beginning of this year. And you'll remember 512 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 4: that the polling totally blew that race too. The expectations 513 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 4: had been that was going to run away with the 514 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 4: very first round against John Cornyn, and again Cornyn received 515 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 4: tens of millions of dollars more television ads, and the 516 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 4: final result was a heck of a lot closer than 517 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 4: the pre election polls. And same as Michigan. You know, 518 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 4: you saw I think it was, you know, an average 519 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 4: of fifteen points up. Bell say ed was in the 520 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 4: final sets of polls, some of which were at leased 521 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 4: by people supporting him to potentially drive narrative. And you 522 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 4: see today what amounts to currently less than one percentage 523 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: point victory, less than fifteen thousand votes of one point 524 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 4: five million caps. Is it that polls are missing people 525 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 4: who are less engaged but swayed by TV ads. That's 526 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 4: certainly an hypothesis, But it's a question I think the 527 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: polling industry is going to have to answer. But I mean, 528 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 4: I think this race is a big deal. Regardless margin 529 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 4: of his victory. It's the fact of his victory that 530 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 4: is so important in democratic politics. 531 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: I want you to talk about candidate quality for a minute, 532 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: but I also want you to talk about he did 533 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: have an elected position in Michigan that was in public health, 534 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: which he did try to run on I think pretty effectively. 535 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 4: I think it was an appointed position, but you know, 536 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 4: he definitely held a public office. Or Yeah, I mean 537 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 4: if you watch him on the campaign trail and you 538 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 4: watch Hailey Stevens on the campaign trail, there is a 539 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 4: gap there. Right. He is a skilled communicator. He talks 540 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 4: very quickly. Politics is complicated, but also it's simple, and 541 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 4: he had a slogan and it was something that people 542 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 4: remembered by the end to the campaign. It was, you know, 543 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 4: Medicare for all. It was a call and response, get 544 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 4: money out of politics, right and get money in your pocket. 545 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 4: If you can boil your message down the simple things 546 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 4: that people can both repeat and like, that's pretty important. Right. 547 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 4: It doesn't matter if you're running is a right wing conservative, 548 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 4: eleft wing progressive, as a centrist. If you have ideas 549 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 4: that appeal to people that they can remember you buy, 550 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 4: that's really valuable. You know, we looked in New York 551 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 4: City at the mayor's race last year, Right, these were 552 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 4: the kinds of things that Mom Donny had, and it 553 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 4: was a different list of items, but it was things 554 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 4: that resonated with the voters he needed to vote for him, 555 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 4: and it was things that they could remember. And I 556 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 4: think that if you were to try to boil down 557 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 4: Alie stevens candidacy, there isn't a call and response. There 558 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 4: was an argument about electability, and there was a familiar 559 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 4: case that she is more moderate, traditional fit for Michigan 560 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 4: and frankly a safer pick the Democratic Party to make 561 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 4: in a year where many Democrats feel they have to 562 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 4: win in in a state where everybody knows the Democrats 563 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 4: have to win, And so she didn't have that same 564 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 4: kind of energy and message. 565 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: That he developed. I was reading a very smart piece 566 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: about moderates. But one of the cases for a more 567 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: progressive candidate is that when Democrats are having an enthusiasm problem, 568 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: as which they are right now, candidates like doctor Elside 569 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: have real enthusiasm right in a way that maybe a 570 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: Hailey Stevens doesn't. He has assroops enthusiasm. Did you see that, 571 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: and if so, do you think like the Democrats have 572 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: alienated them by the establishment has alienated them by going 573 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: so firmly behind Stevens. 574 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 4: I think in general, primaries are primaries, and it's actually 575 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 4: pretty rare that somebody feels so alienated for primary to 576 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 4: completely opposed the other person based on how the primary 577 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 4: is run. I do think that there are people who 578 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 4: are supportive of Hailey Stevens who are unlikely to end 579 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 4: up dual LSA ED voters in the general. And I 580 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 4: think the biggest question is not just voters but for 581 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 4: financial supporters, which is that this is among the single 582 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 4: biggest investments Apack has ever made in a race. He 583 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 4: would be the first ever Muslim US senator and does 584 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 4: a pack bend against him in the general election. And 585 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 4: for Mike Rogers, they haven't said what they're going to do, 586 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 4: But that's a question as well. It's a question on 587 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 4: individual voters, and it's a question of individual spending by 588 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 4: groups that have been heavily involved in this race that 589 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: spent directly something like thirty million dollars through super PACs 590 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 4: that are linked to Apack. 591 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: In Michigan, Bernie Sanders did win the primary in twenty sixteen, 592 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: so there clearly is an appetite for populism, right. 593 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, he lost in twenty twenty though, when he ran 594 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 4: against Joe Biden. I was looking at the map lack 595 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 4: as the results came in, of what did Bernie's results 596 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 4: look like against Hilary Clinton and what does l s 597 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 4: Aide's results look like against Hilly Seams And they don't 598 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 4: match up. You know, sometimes you see these sort of 599 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 4: progressive and centrist matchups and the maps look the same 600 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 4: six years later, eight years later, two years later. This 601 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 4: is a very different map. You know, Bernie Sanders had 602 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 4: an appeal among white rural voters in that election where 603 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 4: he was winning a lot of counties that Hillary Clinton 604 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 4: was not, and it with Stevens who was picking up 605 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 4: some of those counties. The margins on the other hand, 606 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 4: that you saw a sad run up in the college 607 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 4: areas in Grand Rapids, in ann Arbor, and those counties 608 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 4: that contain them were pretty huge. In some places you 609 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 4: could zoom in on, like particular precincts around colleges. You know, 610 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 4: he really mobilized younger voters. It appears and appears to be, 611 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 4: at least at a first glance, more educated political coalition. 612 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: And so it's not the. 613 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 4: Same coalition that Bernie Sanders won with. But yeah, and look, 614 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 4: I think the results in Michigan, right is important this year. Right, 615 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 4: this is the biggest win that the left has had. 616 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 4: They've won a bunch of primaries in a bunch of 617 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 4: House districts, but it's been in Philly, in Brooklyn, in 618 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 4: Manhattan and Denver. This is not small cities. This is 619 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 4: a state, and it's a battleground state, and it's a 620 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 4: state that the Democratic Party just put at the very 621 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 4: front of the calendar in twenty twenty eight to pick 622 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 4: the next presidential nominee. So you better believe that this 623 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 4: map is going to get studied. But everybody who runs 624 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 4: for how you can potentially build a coalition because it's 625 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 4: i think now the fifth state that it is going 626 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 4: to vote in the twenty twenty eight election. So it's 627 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 4: not gonna be the first. There's not gonna be seventeen candidates. 628 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 4: There might be two, there might be three. And so 629 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 4: what we are looking at here is both how this 630 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 4: race unfolded and how the results came in like very 631 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 4: much a roadmap or a preview of what we could 632 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 4: be looking at in twenty twenty eight, which is frankly 633 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 4: what scares a lot of Democrats because this was a 634 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 4: pretty ugly primary. The kind of tenor that came through 635 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,959 Speaker 4: at the end was bitter. I mean, it's like bitter 636 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 4: maybe a dramatic understatement. 637 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: When you look at that Republican primary in Texas. Is 638 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: this a story of money in politics working better? Like? 639 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: I mean, because with the deal with the Republican primary, 640 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: the money actually did almost save Cornin and the money 641 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: did actually almost save Haley Stevens. 642 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 4: If you think that money doesn't matter in Paul, I 643 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 4: think the results this year should tell you that it matters. 644 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 4: It also tells you that it's not enough, right that like, 645 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 4: having more money does not get you a victory in 646 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 4: a race, but it buys you table stakes. 647 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 3: Right. 648 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 4: If you are a struggling candidate and you get fifty 649 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 4: million dollars, well, guess what, you might be a little 650 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 4: bit more competitive of a candidate. But all of that 651 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 4: money brings more attention, It brings more questions of voters, googling, 652 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 4: voters looking bill up, voters paying attention to the debates, 653 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 4: and so you know, it does crystallize the choice that 654 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 4: voters have. And I think it's worth noting those two 655 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 4: states have the biggest polling error of the year, which 656 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 4: is what made me think about maybe the money has 657 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 4: a over lot by you know, something I have to 658 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 4: look into. But yeah, it wasn't decisive in either of 659 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 4: these cases, even if it directly impacted the result. You know, 660 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 4: the person who was on the losing end of the 661 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 4: money race was on the winning end of the elections. 662 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so you got this missing chapter from the DNC autopsy. 663 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: I mean, this story is just such a bad story. 664 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: But give us the setup here because it's just bizarre. 665 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 4: When Ken Martin, who's the DNC chairman, won his election 666 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 4: last year, one of the very first promises he made 667 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 4: was euro study of what went wrong in twenty twenty 668 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 4: four so the party would never make those mistakes again. 669 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 4: And this was going to be pretty widely anticipated. Donors 670 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 4: wanted the party to whole to account what went wrong. 671 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 4: The whole idea was there were lessons to be learned 672 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 4: in defeat. And then this sort of report kept missing 673 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 4: deadlines and it leaked, and by last December, mart re 674 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 4: Verus himself said, Okay, we're winning again. We won the 675 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 4: governor's races in New Jersey, we won the races in Virginia. 676 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 4: We're not releasing a report, thinking maybe this would be 677 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 4: the end of it, and it was very much not 678 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,479 Speaker 4: the end of it, because he spent the next five 679 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 4: months fielding questions about what was he hiding, what was 680 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 4: in this secret report, And so that in May he 681 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,720 Speaker 4: released a report and said, this isn't really a report. 682 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 4: This is like a rough draft that was turned in 683 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 4: by an author, and the draft is kind of crappy, 684 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 4: and they annotated it on every single page. They said 685 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 4: there wasn't source material provided and that this is disavowed 686 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 4: and incorrect. And so for the first time, the author 687 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 4: of that draft, the person that Ken Martin had empowered 688 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 4: to write this critical report, spoke to me and told 689 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 4: me what had happened from his perspective, and he said 690 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 4: that rough draft, which they should have released, they didn't 691 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 4: even release everything. He said there was an entire different 692 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 4: chat that he had personally handed in to Ken Martin 693 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 4: in a binder in January, and the party never released. 694 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 4: And so the story from this week was, well, what 695 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 4: was in that chapter and how did this even come 696 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 4: to be? The chapter itself contained some of the things 697 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 4: that were sort of conspicuously missing from the report that 698 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 4: they did put out, like should Joe Biden have run? 699 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 4: And it was like, this is a real problem and 700 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 4: a key decision point in the entire election. Obviously that 701 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 4: had been sort of missing from the chapter. I ashould 702 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 4: say the chapter's title was what happened right, the kind 703 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 4: of thing that you would expect an autopsy to be covering. 704 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 4: It also really took on the consultant class and said 705 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 4: that there are people who had gotten generationally wealthy about 706 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 4: working in politics, and that those who wanted to make 707 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 4: change were banging their head against that system. 708 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: Which seems pretty clearly obviously Joe. 709 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 4: And a real frustration for like a lot of people 710 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 4: in the party. So but here's the twist. Ken Martin says, no, Dice, 711 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 4: this is not true that this man who he had 712 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 4: empowered tote this autopsy, who was his friend, had not 713 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 4: in fact handed him this chapter, had not put it 714 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 4: in a binder, and that he had never seen it, 715 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 4: and party officials had never seen it, and that this 716 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 4: is not some unreleased chapter, but this is something that 717 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 4: didn't exist at all. And so the story that I 718 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,399 Speaker 4: wrote sort of went through the back and forth of 719 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 4: what they both said had happened, as well as the 720 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 4: contents of this chapter. And I think for Ken Martin 721 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 4: This just comes at a moment where he's really already 722 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 4: under fire in his role as party chairman. And we 723 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 4: just talked about the importance of money the DNC has 724 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 4: broke compared to the Republican Party right now, and the 725 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,320 Speaker 4: most recent telling, the DNC had negative two million dollars 726 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 4: cash on hand, two million dollars more in debt than money. 727 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 4: The Republican National Committee has like one hundred and twenty 728 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 4: eight point five million dollars. One hundred and thirty million 729 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 4: dollars is an awfully large gap to have with less 730 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 4: than one hundred days into the election, and so Ken 731 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 4: Martin's been facing a lot of questions about that, he 732 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 4: says to other issues as well, and so this dispute 733 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 4: over this autopsy from the person he had entrusted to 734 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 4: write it is just sort of another headache for him 735 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 4: on an issue that he really hoped to put in 736 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 4: his past last December and yet continues to drive on. 737 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is interesting about 738 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: this autopsy is that it is not supposed to be 739 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: a thing that blocks the sun right Like at every point, 740 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: what Martin did actually made the problem worse, Like had 741 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: he just released the autopsy and people had read it, 742 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: even if they didn't love it. Pushing back was probably 743 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: the worst part of it. This friend of Martin's, the 744 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: guy who wrote the autopsy, whose name is Paul Rivera. 745 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,399 Speaker 1: Paul Rivera said that he printed out that chapter and 746 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: put it in the binder because when he saw Ken Martin, 747 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 1: Ken Martin said he hadn't read it, right, Is that right? 748 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 4: And Paul said that and basically gave him feedback that 749 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 4: I was disappointing this report. And his version is that 750 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 4: he's saying, you didn't cover this, You didn't cover this, 751 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 4: and Paul's like, I did, you haven't really read this 752 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 4: whole thing. I'm going to print a copy, including this 753 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 4: chapter that I finished, and I'm going to hand it 754 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 4: to you and like, I'd like you to read it. 755 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 4: And he says, not only did you read it, he 756 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 4: like marked it up with annotations and post it notes 757 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 4: and put it back in an overnight binder, you know, 758 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 4: overnighted the binder back n So that yeah, that's the 759 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 4: origins of this binder. And of course this binder. Now 760 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 4: the DNC said they searched for the binder, they couldn't 761 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 4: find it. Ken Martin gainst ten binders a week. Why 762 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,959 Speaker 4: would they keep this binder months later? So it's a real, 763 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 4: you know, a real saga that has continued. 764 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: He said, He said, binder saga. We have one more 765 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: set of primaries, right at. 766 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 4: Least, I mean, there's there's a bunch more primaries this year, 767 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 4: most of them are done. But the next one is 768 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 4: Wisconsin where the governor's race, where there is another left 769 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 4: wing candidate, a Democratic socialist Francesca Hall, who is currently 770 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 4: the favorite in polling. Of course, now we have even 771 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 4: more questions than we already did about polling, but certainly 772 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 4: is the public polling front runner and again a critical 773 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 4: ground swing state of Wisconsin, and. 774 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: She's running against Tom Tiffany, who is very trumpy and 775 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: all sorts of. 776 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,439 Speaker 4: Thanks you for a current mainline Republicant. 777 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: This yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, Shane, thank you. 778 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: No moment, Jesse Cannon, my jun Fast Sue. 779 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 2: We're seeing a letter from a bunch of people in 780 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 2: Congress that is saying that they want the Pentagon to 781 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 2: probe Trump family backed companies because you'll be shocked here, 782 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 2: there's a little bit of fucker going on with the money. 783 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: No, come on. The letter to the Pentagon Inspector General 784 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: was prompted by the Post reporting its startups affiliated with 785 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: the president's sons. Oh really, the president's sons. 786 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 2: Never would guess I have one more. 787 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: Than three point two billion in defense contract. That can't 788 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: be right. A group of Democratic lawmakers have asked the 789 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 1: Pentagon's official watchdog to open an investigation after The Watching 790 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: Post revealed that fifteen copanies with investments from President Donald 791 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: Trump's sons have garnered three point two billion dollars in 792 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: federal contract. It's called nepotism, team, and it's happening in 793 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: our federal government. As someone who has benefited by nepotism myself, 794 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: it's not good. It's real bad. That's it for this 795 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday 796 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make 797 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, 798 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 799 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.