WEBVTT - Trumpland vs. Elon vs. Tariffs 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:10.760 Let me tell you we have a new star. A 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:11.760 star is born. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.920 Elon comed up on mars Juson Kennemy. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.720 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.280 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:22.040 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.560 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.720 But those two percent that are nasty, they are up 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:30.080 in four post. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.120 We're meant for great things in the United States of America, 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.159 and Elon reminds us of that. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.360 We don't have a fourth branch of governments called Elon Musk. 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.520 Welcome to elan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musket's Tuesday, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.560 April eighth. I'm your host, David Popotopolis. Now Here at Bloomberg, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.600 the news has been dominated by last week's tariff announcements. 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:02.280 They've upended markets, sparked of imported olive oil and iPhones, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.600 and created the first major policy rift between Musk and 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:11.080 President Donald Trump. All the CEOs in America, Musk, the 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.920 White House first buddy, has arguably been the loudest critic 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.560 of Trump's tariffs, like calling Trump's trade architect a quote 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:24.400 total moron, kind of loud. A very dangerous game here 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.440 with very high stakes. So we'll get into what the 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.839 tariffs mean for Musk's many businesses and then talk about 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.600 the political fall and the potential beginning of the end 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.000 for Doge. As always, I'm joined by our regulars, Dana 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.120 Hull and Max Chafkin. Dana, Hello there, Hey, hey, hey, 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:47.200 and Max how are you hey? David, how are you doing? Excellent? Okay? 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.560 And Craig Trudell, our global autozar, is on to talk 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.080 tariff nitty gritty Craig, welcome, thanks for having me. And later 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.120 on Nancy Cook, a senior reporter in Washington, will hop 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.920 on to talk politics with us. Before we talked tariffs 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.720 for one second, Max, I listened to the debut last 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.639 week of your new podcast, Did you wow Everybody's Business? 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:11.760 I thought it was great. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.400 Yeah, Everybody's Business. We had our first episode on Friday. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.440 If you didn't listen, it is a weekly show in 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:25.079 which myself and Stacey Mannix Smith, who's a wonderful financial journalist, 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.160 a longtime reporter, talked through the news of the week 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.000 and what it means it's going to be in this feed. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.680 The elon ink feed every Friday for the next few weeks, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.080 and then eventually if David, if you like it, we'll 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.280 move to our own feed and you can subscribe. And 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.880 we did get into the tariff talk last week in 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:45.399 a big way. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.280 All right, there are other things to talk about besides 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:53.920 everybody's business, like the tariffs, Craig Chudell. They were announced 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:59.399 last Wednesday, shocked, I think just about everybody. Markets collapsed, 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.760 tesla'st collapsed, everybody up in arms. I will note at 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:09.240 here as we record Tuesday morning, markets are relief, rebounding 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.160 a little bit, but still a whole lot of anxiety 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:16.240 out there. Craig, tell us exactly how you expect this 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.400 to affect the price of Tesla vehicles and how it 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.280 will affect their operations. 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.359 Well, so, I think we should start by talking about, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.600 you know, acknowledging the fact that Tesla does sort of 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.680 lay claim to having the most you know, sort of 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:33.960 American made cars. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.000 And they do this in large part. 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.160 There's a an annual study that this group at cars 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.760 dot Com does. It's called the American Made Index. They 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.680 look not just at the final assembly locations for vehicles, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.800 but also parts content, and I think, you know, I've 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:53.960 sort of actually taken a closer look at the most 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.640 recent index that cars dot Com release. One of the 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.560 things that I found so interesting is that one of 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.080 the ways that they sort of one of the inputs 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:08.920 for this data is actually from a US law where 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:14.240 they include Canadian content along with US content as a 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.880 measure of americanness. That speaks to just, you know, just 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.840 how crazy the last few weeks have been for this industry. 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.320 That you know, it was a given that you know, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.200 in the past and since nineteen ninety four, when you 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.680 look at, you know, a window sticker on a car 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.000 for what percentage of the parts content for that vehicle 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.120 is quote unquote made in America, Canada gets thrown in there. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:43.160 That that speaks to just how international this industry is. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.360 Well, and it also, I suppose speaks to how, of 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.960 course America is more than the United States. You know, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.880 it's America and the broadest sense of America. Yeah, And 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.039 it was just it is what is America? What is America? 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.040 Canada was always just assume it was just part of US. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.800 It was all just one big market. And this trade 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.840 war is so vast that even that is very very 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:11.320 very much in doubt. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:12.839 Yeah, it's up in the air. 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.120 And so, you know, I think while Tesla was coming 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.719 into this trade war from a sort of relative point 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.720 of strength in the fact that, you know, the vehicles 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.240 that they sell in the US, they make in the US, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.280 they don't entirely have a US supply chain, and they 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.600 acknowledge that themselves back in March, in March eleventh, they 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.000 sent a letter to the Trump administration where they said, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.520 you know, even with the aggressive localization of their supply chain, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.440 there are certain parts and components that are, in their words, 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.960 difficult or impossible to source within. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:46.679 The United States. 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:51.000 And an instance of there not being any winners in 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.160 this trade war for the auto industry, that there may 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.240 be sort of you know, relative losers in terms of 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:58.359 who's losing the most. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.920 But Tesla absolutely is being hit by this. 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.520 And I think there's also real concern about sort of 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.359 second order effects here that when the US puts tariffs 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.920 on other parts of the world, that Tesla will be 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.120 sort of caught up in the crossfire, that they will 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.880 be targeted as a result of these tariffs. 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.919 Yeah, and especially if China. I mean, I think the 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.320 big thing to think about with regards to Tesla is 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.080 on the one hand, they have really worked very hard 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.200 to localize their supply chain in every country where they 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.000 sell vehicles. But on the other hand, they are very 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.960 exposed in China, which accounts for roughly twenty percent of 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.240 their sales. And if the trade war escalates with China, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.120 like you could see this big knockoff effect where like 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.039 the Chinese government encourages people to not buy Tesla's and 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:45.560 to buy domestic suppliers. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.880 You know, conventional wisdom around tariffs, and Tesla has been that, 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.000 like Craig is saying that it's going to be the 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.839 least big loser among car companies. I have to say, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.040 as I've watched Elon mus react to these tariffs. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:03.200 It's giving me reason to doubt. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.880 I am wondering how much we should credit this cars 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.280 dot Com list in the first place. And you know, 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.200 looking at the methodology, it seems like they count the 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.960 number of parts and then divide how many of those 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:18.160 parts come from these It's the. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.480 Same mathematical formula they used to set the terror It just. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.360 Sounds I'm just saying, are we sure that there are 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:30.880 not big unknown vulnerabilities in Tesla's supply chain? That maybe 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:35.280 people are are not considering or underrating battery components in particular, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.400 that is a business that China has long dominated. I 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.200 know that Tesla has has battery making in the US, 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.880 but I have to say, like watching Elon Musk react 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.240 to this stuff, just it does not look like a 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.440 guy who's approprating from a position of strength. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.760 I see, I see so certainly very possible. I mean, 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.440 his protestations have indeed been very very loud. But Craig, 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.240 I'm to go back to the beginning and the first 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.880 question I asked you, because you tap danced around it, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.200 you can't trick me, pal. Are there car prices going 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:13.520 up already? And if not, how soon do we expect 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.200 them to go up? If at all? 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:20.040 We have not seen Tesla make moves to its vehicle 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.880 prices on its website, and I do think that that 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.640 will be something that we ought to watch over the 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.720 next you know, a few weeks in the sense that 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.000 they are very different from the rest of the industry. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.600 Right where the manufacturers suggested retail prices you know, tend 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.360 to be kept pretty static by the rest of the industry. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.360 Other automakers, they don't, you know, sort of mess around 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.680 with MSRPs. Tesla is very different in that, you know, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.199 and we saw that coming out of the pandemic right 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.720 where or early on in the pandemic, we saw them 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.280 jack up prices in this is very open way along 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.640 with the rest of the industry, where because everybody was 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:55.760 production constrained. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.760 Let me pause there for a second, So you're saying 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.000 that when we had the last major supply shock, which 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.520 is essentially what this is. These tariffs are a supply 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:09.360 side shock, Tesla was the first and the most aggressive 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.839 in jacking up prices of the major automakers. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:13.720 I think they were. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.240 They were both aggressive and the way that they moved, 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.800 but also just much more open where because they don't 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.559 have a dealer base, because they don't have dealers and 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.360 independent retailers who in the end get to go with 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.320 the manufacturers suggested retail price are not. 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:31.480 They set their own prices. 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.400 And they do so very openly for everyone to see 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.600 on their website, and so they're unique. And yeah, you know, 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.720 just as Musk is loud and the way he protests 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.560 and the way he does virtually everything, Tesla is very 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.440 loud and how they set their prices. I also think, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.120 you know, whereas other manufacturers may have, you know, no 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.640 choice but to jack up prices. I do wonder how 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.160 much you know, sort of ability Tesla has to use 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.560 pricing power, given the fact that they really, you know, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.480 have started from such a hole in terms of you know, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.360 the first quarter delivery numbers that they reported last week 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.199 were awful, and you know, they were off of a 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.320 awful base a year ago. So for them to start 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.640 the year by saying, you know, we expect to return 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.520 to growth, they've really got to sort of you know, move. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:18.320 The metal this year. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.560 And will we see them keeping pricing steady and eating 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:23.760 these tariffs. 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.000 More so than other carmakers. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.240 Okay, we are going to leave the teriff side of 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.920 this for here, at least the mechanical and the nitty 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.280 gritti sid of the teriff side. Here, Craig driudell as always, sir, 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:36.280 thank you for joining us. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:37.160 Thanks chuys. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.920 Oh and by the way, Craig, shout as soon as 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.480 you see price increases, if you do see them. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:43.720 Absolutely, thanks gus. 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:51.600 Awesome man. Okay, we're now joined by Nancy Cook, a 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.520 senior correspondent for US in Washington. Nancy, Hello, thanks for 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:00.320 having me. Okay, now, So, Nancy, as I got it say, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.760 it seems as I watched the ixing and the posting 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.360 on social media, it seems to be getting pretty hot 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:12.160 and heavy right now between Elon Musk and several members 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:18.000 of the Trump inner circle, in particular with one Peter Navarro. Navarro, 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.720 of course, helped steer Trump to these very aggressive tariffs, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.120 Musk is dead set against them. Tell us, how do 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.360 you see this playing out and what does it look 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.600 like up close and personal there in DC. 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.959 Well, so, I think that what is happening is that 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.200 Elon musk time in the White House is coming to 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.280 an end, and you know he is going to leave, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:44.920 you know, roughly at the one hundred and thirty day mark. 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.959 How the White House Counsel's Office kind of calculates that 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.280 is still up for grubs, but we're expecting him to 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.120 leave around May or June. You know, he has driven 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:58.080 a lot of White House aids nuts and has stepped 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.920 on a lot of toes. And I think you know 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.800 now that Trump is also previewing that he's going to 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.679 be leaving. I just think that everything, things that were 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.160 happening behind the scenes are sort of spilling out into 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:11.080 the open. A bit more. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.760 And when you say he's driving members of the inner 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:19.360 circle nuts, who and exactly how is that playing it? 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:20.240 What does that look like? 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.680 So what has happened is that I think people have 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.920 been very cautious around him. A lot of Trump sort 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.000 of people in the White House but also advisors and 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:30.640 allies around him have been very cautious. 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.480 But when you say cautious, seem me like fearful. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.400 Fearful exactly. That's a good word, better word. They have 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:40.040 been fearful to criticize Musk because he was like Trump's 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.439 bff for a long time and sort of still is 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.679 around all the time. You know, he was at Mar 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.400 A Lago, he was kind of like living down there, 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.520 but also in DC. He was on Air Force one 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.160 all the time. He had given so much money to 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.319 the campaign, And it was funny because I would make 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.360 all these calls to you know, Trump people when Elon 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.040 first really stowed up in the White House and was 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.480 doing all these dotge cuts, and people were so fearful 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.360 to kind of say anything negative about him, even on background. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.120 And I do think that that has changed a little bit. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.960 You know, they take their cues from the President. I think, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.280 you know, President Trump still is, I think, on pretty 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.480 good terms with Elon, but is starting, I think to 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.360 see that he has is becoming at a little bit 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.160 of a political liability. And Trump himself has sort of 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.320 said Elon is going to be leaving, like this is 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.800 not a permanent thing, and so the aids are taking 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:31.720 their cues from him. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.680 So, Nathan, when you say your sources, people close to 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:41.600 Trump were so fearful of Elon they wouldn't even you know, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.480 talk about him or throw shade, I should say at 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.720 him on background, they are doing so now I think. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.360 They're just they're not as fearful as they once were. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.600 They are tired of him. He has worn out his welcome. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.760 You know, they lost that key state Supreme Court race. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.640 Remind our listeners a little bit about that for a minute. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.120 So I think Elon's been driving people in the White 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.800 House crazy for months, and you know, all these doze 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.680 things were you know, viewed as things that he sort 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.920 of did, you know, without vetting them with the White House, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.120 sort of went ahead and charged ahead. And so a 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.920 real test case of his standing in Trump world was 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.280 with this, you know, state Supreme Court seat in Wisconsin. 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.320 Elon was out there campaigning the weekend before, he raised 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.280 a bunch of money to try to you know, in 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.760 the race to back his candidate, and they lost and 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.760 it was, you know, an embarrassment. And I do think 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.760 Trump world right now, like the people immediately around Trump 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.440 are very political people. And so that is led by 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.560 his chief of staff, Susie Wilds, who is like a 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.840 longtime political operative. Trump calls her the ice Maiden. You know, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.760 she looks sort of grandmotherly, but but do not fall 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.840 for that. You know, she is a tough woman. Trump 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:55.960 loves her, the family loves her, and. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.920 She's really into like as like a political person. She's 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.720 really into like message discipline and I think that and 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.600 like running like a disciplined political operation. And the thing 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.280 that people need to learn very quickly about Elon is 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.200 he is not disciplined. I mean, he will post at 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.000 all hours, he will wildly cream from one position to another. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.760 He will be off message, he will be at odds 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.160 with the Trump administration. And you're seeing that play out 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.840 in real time today with what he's saying about Peter Navarro, 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.920 who is like the lead person along with Lutnik on 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.240 this whole tariff issue. So that's got to be causing 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.200 more consternation internally. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.600 Yeah, you know, Max as Dennis saying here, Musk was 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.000 out this morning hammering Navarro, hammering him. 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.520 I don't even know if I could say I believe 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.280 he called Peter Navarro Peter Retardo. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.000 I didn't see that one. He called him a total moron. 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.520 No no, no, no, truly a more truly a moron, 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.880 excuse me, and that what he says here is demonstrably false. 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.680 He also says apparently that he is dumber than a 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.120 sack of bricks. So yeah, I'm guessing at Susie wilds 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:04.560 ain't loving now I was. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.560 I want to add a point out that, just I 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:07.960 believe it was a week ago or a week and 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.520 a half ago, Elon Musk was in a cabinet meeting 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.320 wearing a hat that said Trump was right about everything. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.120 That was different than the cheese had had that was. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.960 It was it was not shaped like a wedge of cheese. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.880 It was shaped like a normal baseball cap. So huge, 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.560 huge difference there. So Dan is right like Elon Musk, 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.960 He's an impulsive guy. I think the inciting thing here, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.080 beyond just the tariffs and the fact that that is 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.200 hurting his business. But we know for a fact that 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.000 Elon Musk is willing to accept some pain, some business 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.400 pain on behalf of Donald Trump. But Navarro went on, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.680 I can't remember, I think it was CNBC and he 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.160 was asked a question about this, and he said that 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.479 Tesla is not an American auto manufacturer, It's an American assembler, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.760 which is the worst thing you could say to Elon. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.640 I cannot imagine a worse like something that would hurt 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.119 Elon Musk more than that. Number one, because he he 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.560 values being a manufacturer. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.439 But number two, there is just the faintest kernel of 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:18.080 truth to. 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:23.920 That statement, because Tesla is modeled after these consumer electronics companies. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.400 Car similar is DEM's fighting words. I know, look you're 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.199 saying to his face, and don't call me a car 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.280 similar either, But I gotta say, like, you know, Elon 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.720 doesn't even want the cars really to be about the hardware. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.119 They're all about the software, which is which is what 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.600 is really the other big dig right. It's like, no, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:45.440 I'm some great, you know, brilliant, you know, technologist, And 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.800 so I suppose that's what really is is part of 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.960 what's got him calling Navarro Trulia moron and a set 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.080 dumber than a sack of bricks. Okay, so, Nancy, we've 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.359 established that he's warring with Peter Navarro. Who are his 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.480 other big enemies? As do you understand it there in 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:02.720 and around that White House? 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.960 I mean, I think he's made everyone mad. Like we 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:06.960 don't need to name names. I think you could just say, 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:11.160 like the waterfront of top White House, aids have been 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.240 annoyed by Elon or gotten into it with him, or 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.840 been disappointed by his lack of message discipline, or how 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.840 he's gone and done things with Doje that they didn't 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.240 know about ahead of time. I mean, it has just 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.320 been a problem, and people have been fearful to say anything. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.199 And I think that you know, what's happening with Navarro 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.440 and Musk. It's interesting, you know. Navarro is like one 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.000 of the most people who escalates, goes from like zero 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.399 to one hundred faster than anyone I've ever seen. You know, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.640 in the first Trump term, he really got into it 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.240 with like you know, Republicans on Capitol Hill, they hated him, 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.800 you know, people in the White House hated him. But 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:52.879 he went to jail for four months for defying a subpoena. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:57.320 And you cannot underestimate in Trump's mind how much that 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.800 demonstrated his loyalty and the currents that he has in 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.560 the West wing because of that, I think Peter Navarro 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.119 is at the apex of his power right now. Whether 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.240 that last, we'll see. But with these tariffs, he's really 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:10.960 at a height of power, and for Elon to be 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.560 picking a fight with him, it is just like, not 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:14.320 good for Elon. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.199 I gotcha, No, that's fantastic stuff. I had forgotten about 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.240 that time in jail he did. So let me ask 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.720 you this, though, are you saying that your sense is 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.960 that loyalty that I'm willing to spend time in the 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.760 clink loyalty is worth more to Trump than Elon Musk's money. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.439 I mean, I wouldn't put it that way, but I 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:40.679 just say, like, Musk is messing with someone who, in 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.200 Trump's mind, is like just on this high perch because 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.679 of the jail time, and it's just probably not a 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:47.440 good fight to pick. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:47.920 Now. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.920 Is Trump going to exile Elon? Nope, because he wants 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.160 that money for the midterms. Republicans will need that money 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.879 for the midterms. But I think that my sense is 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.560 that I think Trump's inner circle hopes that Elon just 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.199 goes away after you know, May or June, late May 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.560 or June. He can still be a friend of the 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.880 White House. You know, he'll still be able to come 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.440 into the West Wing. You know, maybe once or twice 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.080 a week he'll show up at mar A Lago. No 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.960 one thinks he's going away. Doge is there to stay. 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.320 They're going to stay in the agencies. But I think 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.800 that people are hoping maybe Doge is like less of 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.040 a lightning rod for Democrats if Musk himself is not 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.480 like jumping up on stage all the time, or with 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.080 Trump all the time, or at mar A Lago, sort 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:30.800 of like in this Buddy Cop movie. 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:32.119 I totally agree. 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.359 I think, like it's not that it's not that Musk 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.679 is not going to be in Trump's orbit or whatever. 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.800 It's just it's just like a mutual away that they 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.320 can mutually take a step away from one another. I 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.920 will say this Wisconsin race, like, I don't think we can. 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.280 I don't think you'd be right to blame Elon Musk 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:51.560 for like losing the race. 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.920 Filon Musk is you can extract that variable from the 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.280 whole picture. The Dems still win. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.920 I don't think we would be surprised if the Dems 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:02.800 had won even without Elon. 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.040 Musk being such a factory. 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.919 But listen, like it's a low turnout election and then 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.760 you know, like there been there are historical examples like 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.440 like this where the candidate who just who just lost 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.280