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Speaker 1: Hello. They're from Washington and the DMB, as we like

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Speaker 1: to call it, which is not the Division of Motor Vehicles.

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Speaker 1: When we say DMV and DC, we actually need District

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Speaker 1: Maryland and Virginia. But I'll admit every time I hear

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Speaker 1: the words DMB, even I for a second wonder if

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Department of Motor Vehicles. But I

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Speaker 1: am coming to you from inside the Beltway and coming up,

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Speaker 1: I have a fascinating conversation with Don Bacon. He's a

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Speaker 1: Republican congressman from Nebraska. He's from that congressional district that

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Speaker 1: is very swingy. Nebraska is one of the few states

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Speaker 1: that allows congressional districts to be split. I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling the state of Nebraska is likely to get rid

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Speaker 1: of that rule coming up, and if they do, Main

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Speaker 1: will likely do the same. But we shall see. But

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Speaker 1: that Omaha district has gone blue, I think the last

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Speaker 1: few times, so we've had these split decisions out of there.

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Speaker 1: But they have voted simultaneously for president, and they've elected

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Speaker 1: Don Bacon, a Republican, to Congress, and I really think

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Speaker 1: it does sort of tell you a lot about Omaha

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Speaker 1: in general and sort of where you know, where there's

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Speaker 1: different wings, if you will, of the Republican Party these days,

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Speaker 1: because I think when you see a guy like Don

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Speaker 1: Bacon get elected and you see Democrats carried in a

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Speaker 1: presidential I think it tells you what type of Republicans

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Speaker 1: and they don't like because this is a Republican leaning

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Speaker 1: area in general. This is certainly Omaha itself is a

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Speaker 1: fifty to fifty place. This city for years, they've gone

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Speaker 1: back and forth Democratic mayor's Republican mayors. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: always been a swing area of the state, but generally

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Speaker 1: it leans pretty Republican. But I think what you see

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Speaker 1: here is what I find interesting. Here is something that

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, this this fight that we're going

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Speaker 1: to see you inside the Republican Party over tariffs, and

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Speaker 1: this fight that I think we're now which may end

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Speaker 1: up accelerating a larger fight about national security because in

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Speaker 1: many ways, Donald Trump, I think, whether he means to

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Speaker 1: or not, certainly is the leader of a new version

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party. Are arguably an older version of

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Speaker 1: a Republican Party that goes that dates itself back to

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Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century, early twentieth century, and back then

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party was a very protectionist party. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the Party of business, you know, being the party of business.

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Speaker 1: It actually was very logical why back then business wanted

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Speaker 1: protection because back then we didn't have air cargo travel.

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Speaker 1: Back then we had you know, so American businesses wanted

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Speaker 1: to be one of their businesses protected if you would,

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Speaker 1: from outside influence, outside exports, and so it made a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense that the Republican Party, being the party

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Speaker 1: of business back then, would be in favor of tariffs

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Speaker 1: back then. Ironically, I think today's business, while they want

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Speaker 1: to align with the Republican Party that was sort of

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Speaker 1: from the Eisenhower to Romney era one for low regulation

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Speaker 1: and low taxes, is not advocating these tariffs. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of industries they are, but not many. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's a real question now, and this is something

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Speaker 1: I've been thinking about quite a bit, and about our polarization.

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Speaker 1: We've been in the middle of a political realignment now

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Speaker 1: arguably for twenty years. I mean, in some ways it's

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Speaker 1: ever since the end of the Cold War. We've begun

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Speaker 1: this sort of what I would call this realignment and

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Speaker 1: this splintering of coalitions that were very steady during the

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Speaker 1: Cold War. But if you think about this sort of

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Speaker 1: calendar of events, right the wallfalls in eighty nine and

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Speaker 1: the first evidence of the Trump era shows up in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two in the form of Pat Buchanan, a pundit.

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Speaker 1: Conservative pundit back in the day, worked for Richard Nixon,

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Speaker 1: was a speech writer. He challenged the sitting president back then,

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Speaker 1: a Republican, George H. W. Bush, and challenged him for

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Speaker 1: the nomination. He didn't get very close, but he found

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Speaker 1: a following. He had a and it was a very

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Speaker 1: when you hear If you go back and listen to

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Speaker 1: it Pat Buchanan stump speech in Manchester, Newham Sure in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one and nineteen ninety two, it'll sound very familiar.

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Speaker 1: It's tough on immigration. It is definitely articulating beliefs in

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Speaker 1: a bit of a retreat. Buchanan for years was seen

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Speaker 1: as anti Israel because he was really anti foreign aid

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Speaker 1: to anybody, including Israel. Back in the day, he was

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Speaker 1: certainly thought he was one of the early conservatives speaking

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Speaker 1: against free trade agreements. He was violently anti NAFTA, and

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Speaker 1: so when you now look back at the time he

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Speaker 1: was considered kind of a gadfly, kind of a loud mouth. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's always been this sort of constituency available to Republicans

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Speaker 1: back then, but it was a small you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a majority constituency. Certainly wasn't where the donor community was,

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Speaker 1: and it really wasn't where sort of you know, if

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Speaker 1: you think about I always think about most of the

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Speaker 1: American people are somewhere between the thirty yard lines if

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Speaker 1: you want to lay us out on a football field,

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Speaker 1: right really is only about fifteen percent of the entire

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Speaker 1: country is further to the left or further to the

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Speaker 1: right than those sort of invisible lines that I've drawn

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Speaker 1: there at the thirty yard line. And if you want

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Speaker 1: more detail on that, just go go go down a

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Speaker 1: Pew Research rabbit hole and you'll sort of see how

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Speaker 1: the progressive left and the MAGA right collectively is not

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Speaker 1: even twenty percent of the population. But right now you

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Speaker 1: could argue that they're having more than their fair share

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Speaker 1: of influence on the two parties. And it's made me

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Speaker 1: think at this point especially, you know, it's this really

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Speaker 1: clicked into my head in twenty sixteen, where we really

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Speaker 1: could have easily been a if we had been a

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Speaker 1: sort of European democracy, thank France, which has four major parties,

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Speaker 1: maybe four people on a general election, top two would

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Speaker 1: meet in a runoff. Well, if we were a four

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Speaker 1: party system in twenty sixteen, it'd had Bernie Sanders sort

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Speaker 1: of the Green Party nominee or the Progressive Party nominee.

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Speaker 1: He'd had Hillary Clinton as sort of the Lib Dem

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Speaker 1: if you will, if to compare it to the UK,

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Speaker 1: or sort of the center left party, yet had a

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Speaker 1: Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio is the nominee for the

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Speaker 1: center right party. And yet had Donald Trump as sort

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Speaker 1: of the nationalist right, the nominee the Nationalist Party. And

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Speaker 1: perhaps if there's a runoff, it would have been Trump Sanders,

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Speaker 1: or perhaps it would have been you know, Rubio Clinton.

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Speaker 1: You know, it could have gone in any different direction

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Speaker 1: depending on what the top two were, and perhaps you know, look,

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Speaker 1: this isn't what we are. We have a duopoly in

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Speaker 1: this country. I think it's a I think it's a

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Speaker 1: duopoly that's doing a lot of damage now. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a duopoly that is making the democracy a bit

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Speaker 1: weaker than it ever has. I think in some ways

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Speaker 1: we do have arguably four robust political movements that might

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Speaker 1: be deserving of its own political party rather than trying

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Speaker 1: to stuff two of them into this large these larger coalitions.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I have this thesis that if we could,

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Speaker 1: if you had to you create a coalition to attain

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Speaker 1: power like many parliamentary systems work, or even these sort

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Speaker 1: of hybrid sort of multi party democracy's work, then you

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Speaker 1: would be more comfortable building a coalition to enact power,

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Speaker 1: right if it would only arguably empower more more folks

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Speaker 1: number one at the negotiating table, and number two I

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Speaker 1: think you would have. Yes, it would be more incremental movements,

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Speaker 1: but it would be incremental movements that were more likely

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Speaker 1: to stick, rather than the sort of whiplash that we

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Speaker 1: are getting in public policy that is arguably created or

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Speaker 1: accelerated the instability that we have. The reason I bring

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Speaker 1: this up because you're going to hear this. You're going

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Speaker 1: to hear from Don Bacon, and he really is. Here's

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Speaker 1: a guy that is filing a bill to try to

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Speaker 1: take tariff power away from the Republican President Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Here's a guy that just wrote an outbed very critical

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Speaker 1: of some of the movements of Trump administrations, making when

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Speaker 1: it comes to a reproach Mont to Russia. He's been

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Speaker 1: very supportive of Ukraine in the war, in that aggressive

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Speaker 1: action that the Russians took to invade their country, and

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Speaker 1: he's very concerned and look at he's in that sense,

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Speaker 1: he is being a representative of his area. Omaha and

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Speaker 1: Nebraska in general will get hit hard by these tariffs,

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Speaker 1: very hard. All of the ag states are going to

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Speaker 1: get hit hard by these tariffs. It's not an accident

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Speaker 1: that Chuck Rassley, the Republican Senator from Iowa, Don Bacon,

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Speaker 1: or Republican congress from Nebraska are two of the leading

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Speaker 1: sponsors of companion bills that would essentially try to take

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Speaker 1: this emergency tariff power away from the president. He really

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have this power. There's really no emergency out there.

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Speaker 1: He's manufactured this emergency, and if Congress has the authority

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Speaker 1: to take it away from it, the question, of course,

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Speaker 1: is when is there going to be the political will,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the House, to do that. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to pre judge the conversation you're about to hear with him,

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Speaker 1: but I think it is something you'll hear. There's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a strategy here a lot of it will

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Speaker 1: depend on the impact these tariffs have over the economy.

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Speaker 1: I think the jobs report is a lagging indicator of

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Speaker 1: the health of the economy. But I understand if I

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Speaker 1: were in the Trump administration over the weekend, I'd be

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Speaker 1: trying to use the jobs report as prof Hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: playing Kevin Bacon and animal House remain calm all as well.

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Speaker 1: Look the jobs report. Guess what jobs report literally is

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, we always report it first

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Speaker 1: Friday of the month, but it really is signifying the

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Speaker 1: health of the jobs market as of the fifteenth of

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Speaker 1: the prior month, right, That's really what it tells you.

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Speaker 1: So this is an indicator of what the job market

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Speaker 1: was pre Liberation Day. So this is just the beginning. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: what the markets do all day on Monday is going

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Speaker 1: to be impactful of some of the political reaction here.

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Speaker 1: But look, politically, I do think, as I said in

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Speaker 1: our little emergency or first of what maybe many emergency

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Speaker 1: pods that we start putting up here at the check podcast,

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Speaker 1: I do think that this is his Afghanistan withdrawal. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is something that's just like, you know, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is convinced that fair trade is something that's popular, right,

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Speaker 1: and when you when you pull fair trade, everybody's for

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Speaker 1: fair trade. It sounds good. Reciprocal tariffs, making the case

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Speaker 1: you should tear you know, whatever a country's taxing us,

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Speaker 1: we should tax back, right. I think fairness is something

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Speaker 1: that's very easy sell, but then the impact of it

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Speaker 1: suddenly becomes very difficult to sell because the impact is uneven.

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Speaker 1: The impact isn't what necessarily the rhetoric President Trump is

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Speaker 1: saying is on that front. And the reason I compared

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Speaker 1: to the Afghanistan withdrawal is like very you know, getting

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Speaker 1: out of Afghanistan was very popular. In fact that Biden

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Speaker 1: administry assumed that they were, you know, as long as

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Speaker 1: getting they got out of Afghanistan. How they got out

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be a big deal. But it really

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Speaker 1: sort of he never recovered from it because it how

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Speaker 1: he got out created a competence question about the administration.

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Speaker 1: And when you have competency suddenly becoming a sort of

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Speaker 1: front of mind to voters, that is very it's almost

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Speaker 1: impossible to recover from. You can you know, Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: recovered from the arguably the incompetency of not being able

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Speaker 1: to get the website up for healthcare. They paid his

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Speaker 1: deep price, but he went out there and sort of

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Speaker 1: owned it, and they made a very public attempt to

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Speaker 1: bring in the best and the brightest to try to

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Speaker 1: fix it. They sort of leaned into the problem to

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Speaker 1: try to fix the problem. Donald Trump, instead of trying

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Speaker 1: to sell the country on tariffs and explaining his policies,

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Speaker 1: left Washington early to golf. I mean, if you were

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party looking for a visual to use to

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Speaker 1: attack Donald Trump, sort of to let them eat cake moment,

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Speaker 1: if you will, you couldn't come up with a better

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Speaker 1: visual than him rushing down to his golf course rushing

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Speaker 1: to play apparently is there's some senior championship, which of

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Speaker 1: course he will be the winner of because it's his

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Speaker 1: own golf club. You know, we used to laugh at

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Speaker 1: the North Korean leaders who would talk about their golf exploits,

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Speaker 1: and now we have our own leader. He likes to

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Speaker 1: talk about his golf exploits, but he's not even attempting

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Speaker 1: to sell or fix this problem. And then you have

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Speaker 1: the issue where economists are looking at the math, if

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Speaker 1: you will, that that the Trump administration put out and

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Speaker 1: how they came up with their the various reciprocal tariffs

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Speaker 1: that they came up with, and apparently, you know, they'd

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Speaker 1: be laughed out of you know, economics one oh one classes.

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Speaker 1: So this really gets at a it's how they did.

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Speaker 1: This feels a bit haphazard, and I think it creates

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Speaker 1: a competency question. And again George W. Bush could and Iraq,

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Speaker 1: the combination of those created a compensity competency crisis excuse

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Speaker 1: me for Bush that he never recovered from, and his

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Speaker 1: party started to pay a steep price in six and

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Speaker 1: then paid another price in eight. This wasn't something that

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Speaker 1: went away after one cycle. I think it's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that Democrats paid a competency price Joe Biden did from

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Speaker 1: the Afghanistan withdrawal a little bit in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: although Donald Trump and his bad Senate recruits made it

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Speaker 1: seem as if Democrats survived the worst. But of course

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Speaker 1: then came twenty twenty four, and there just was a

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Speaker 1: there was they just couldn't get out of that shadow,

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Speaker 1: and that thing just sort of if you recall, his

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Speaker 1: approval rating drop a low forty five, and he never

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Speaker 1: got above it. He never got above it, and I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty confident that Donald Trump's never going to get above

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Speaker 1: forty five because this economy again, either he gets rid

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Speaker 1: of all these tariffs and because he negotiates all these

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Speaker 1: side deals and he doesn't reindustrialize the count tree and

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Speaker 1: business doesn't sort of bounce back right away because they're

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Speaker 1: not sure if Donald Trump's going to change his mind again,

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Speaker 1: right or he sticks to his guns. Because if he

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Speaker 1: does believe in his policy, you are going to need

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Speaker 1: to stick to this for years, not months, not weeks,

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Speaker 1: but years. And there's this horrendous sort of you know it,

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Speaker 1: essentially you have to and there are some people that

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Speaker 1: believe this. You have to knock down the house and

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Speaker 1: rebuild it, right, and when you knock down you're going

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Speaker 1: to create a lot of destructions. So when somebodys you

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Speaker 1: have to destroy the global economy in order to rebuild

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Speaker 1: this sort of singular industrial economy that perhaps Peter Navarro

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Speaker 1: and some of his other trade advisors are dreaming of.

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Speaker 1: But neither scenario encourages a growing economy. Neither scenario encourages

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Speaker 1: investment in the United States. So it is, you know

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Speaker 1: how he did it. He's I think he's made his

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Speaker 1: tax cut put his tax cut in jeopardy. You know.

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Speaker 1: Obviously at this point, I think if he missed, he

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Speaker 1: should have ordered this differently, if he really believed in

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Speaker 1: this terror regime. But now he's made it where even

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Speaker 1: if he passes a tax cut, it's going to have

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Speaker 1: zero impact on improving people's lives, zero impact on getting

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Speaker 1: money into their hands, and if anything, all they're going

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Speaker 1: to see is the cost of everything else go up.

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Speaker 1: So whatever cut he may be producing. And the last

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Speaker 1: time he cut taxes, it didn't it didn't cut everybody's taxes.

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Speaker 1: He seemed to. He cut corporate taxes more than he

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Speaker 1: cut individual taxes, you know. In fact, for some people,

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Speaker 1: taxes went up, particularly if you lived in a suburb

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Speaker 1: in a light blues in a state that had a

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Speaker 1: state income tax. So I think he has put his

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Speaker 1: entire presidency in jeopardy of being an effective presidency. But

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Speaker 1: as always, he's put himself at the center of the

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Speaker 1: story and the center of the debate. But this is

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Speaker 1: going to be a pretty rough ride, and we may

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Speaker 1: be I think the turby The one thing I wonder

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Speaker 1: about is the turbulence so great that this is what

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Speaker 1: actually fractures the Republican Party into something that we haven't fathomed,

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Speaker 1: you know, Is this the beginning of turning the splitting

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party into two and you end up having

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Speaker 1: essentially two parties on the right, one that is a

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Speaker 1: business centric sort of belief in a global order and

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Speaker 1: one that is an isolation is nationalist party on that front.

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Speaker 1: And of course I think once one splinters, the other

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Speaker 1: one could splinter just behind it. So look, this is

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Speaker 1: just a way to watch this in a macro sense,

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Speaker 1: But in the micro sense, I think watching to see

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Speaker 1: how Congress reacts to the markets over the next week

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Speaker 1: or two is still going to be the best way

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Speaker 1: to understand the political impact of all of this, So

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Speaker 1: that we will sneak in a break when we come

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Speaker 1: back my conversation with one of the few Republicans willing

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Speaker 1: to speak out against Donald Trump's policy both on national

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Speaker 1: security and the economy and joining me for a conversation

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Speaker 1: here about sort of the tumultuous week that we've had

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Speaker 1: on the economy is Republican Congressman Don Bacon, who is

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Speaker 1: from Omaha, and many people who follow the presidential election

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Speaker 1: know his district well because Nebraska is one of two

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Speaker 1: states that splits their electoral votes. So the Omaha Congressional

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Speaker 1: district has been one of those swing probably the swingiest

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Speaker 1: district as far in America when it comes to ad spending.

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Speaker 1: But the congressman there is Don Bacon, and he has

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Speaker 1: while he has tough races, he makes it through Congress.

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Speaker 1: And it's good to see you. Thanks go to be

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Speaker 1: backing out with you. It's good to see you again.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Well, let's start with you know, because

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Speaker 1: I have a little bit of time and we can

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Speaker 1: do context to our answers just for people that aren't

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Speaker 1: as familiar with the Omaha economy. And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been a great thirty years in Omaha. Right if you

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Speaker 1: look at it from that big thirty year picture, it's

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Speaker 1: a more of a diverse economy than it was thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago. Give give the elevator pitch, be my Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce guy here about why what's been happening with

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Speaker 1: the Omaha economy and why it's been a good economy

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Speaker 1: for the last generation.

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Speaker 2: That's why I advised our mayor candidate, she's been the

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Speaker 2: marriage for twelve years, said Mayor. All you got to

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Speaker 2: say is this Forbes racist the number one city in

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Speaker 2: America to live in. Two. We're the fastest growing economy

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Speaker 2: in America at nine percent nine percent GDP growth right here.

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Speaker 2: And we're one of the few big cities where crime

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Speaker 2: has gone down. It's a great place full of So

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Speaker 2: the economy is very diverse. It's got an ag business

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Speaker 2: component to it. You have Western foods. We have eighty

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Speaker 2: five percent of the world's irrigation sales come out of here.

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Speaker 2: I go on and last, so it's agribusiness haven. We're

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Speaker 2: also a transportation hub. You have Union Pacific of Burlington

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Speaker 2: Northern has weather division headquarters here. We have a lot

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Speaker 2: of the largest truckings in Omaha. But third, it's the

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Speaker 2: third largest financial structor in America. Insurance is the big

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Speaker 2: big driver that. We also have the largest private bank

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Speaker 2: in Omaha. Right, but you have a flack mutual of Olaha,

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Speaker 2: Pacific Life, New York Life. I'll just go on and on.

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Speaker 2: So the insurance financial industry has taken off in Omaha.

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Speaker 2: And you put all that together, we have a dynamic

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Speaker 2: economy and law, unemployment and the standard of living here

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Speaker 2: or the costal living is very competitive.

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Speaker 1: No, it's actually you know you can get a good

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Speaker 1: job there and pay a little bit less to live

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Speaker 1: there than you are in some of some bigger cities.

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Speaker 1: So tell me your great fear right now about this

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Speaker 1: tear regime that's been placed on essentially every country in

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Speaker 1: the world. What that could mean for Omaha's economy.

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Speaker 2: But we are at exports state where the world where

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Speaker 2: the York's largest beef export for starters, and we're top

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Speaker 2: five when it comes to poork corn, Soybean's popcorn, ethan all.

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Speaker 2: So we're an export state, export city. And I don't

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Speaker 2: have a crystal ball. I mean, I hope it turns

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Speaker 2: out sure we else I have no idea, but I

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Speaker 2: see a lot of risk. When you lose six trillion

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Speaker 2: dollars in the stock market in two days, that says

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Speaker 2: a lot. We've already seen a loss and customers when

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Speaker 2: it comes to beef and popcorn. I've talked to the

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Speaker 2: big ex borders, and so these European markets have already

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Speaker 2: shut themselves down. I don't think anybody wins in the

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Speaker 2: trade war, and I don't know why we want to

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Speaker 2: take on the entire world at once. You know, I

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Speaker 2: would have done this for surgically I would have probably

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Speaker 2: focused on China upfront, maybe Russia with their behavior. I

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Speaker 2: would have negotiated with the Europe. Now, Europe doesn't have

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Speaker 2: high terraffs, but they have a lot of rules. We

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Speaker 2: can't find a way to get our beef, for example,

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Speaker 2: in the European market because they put a lot of

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Speaker 2: restrictions that make it very hard to get us. We

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Speaker 2: should have these negotiations, know where our allies are and

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Speaker 2: who our adversaries are, and so think it out of

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Speaker 2: the whole rule It seems very risky, right, that's not wise.

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Speaker 2: That's me. I like someone's got a terrify us. I

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Speaker 2: think we should have a level of playing field. I

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Speaker 2: think we've done enough analysis. A lot of the numbers

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Speaker 2: that the White House used for not actual tariff numbers,

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Speaker 2: there were fudged in a lot of a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: And so therefore you can't just say it's a reciprocal

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Speaker 2: terrorists or not.

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Speaker 1: If I were working in the Congressional Liaison office at

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Speaker 1: the White House, you'd be one of the people I'd

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Speaker 1: have on speed dial. Given your sort of the fact

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Speaker 1: that you're in a swing district, the fact that you're

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Speaker 1: in this diverse economy that you you were a representative of.

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Speaker 1: Did you get a heads up? Did they call that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, does somebody from the White House going, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're thinking about this. What do you think any of

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Speaker 1: that kind of conversation.

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Speaker 2: They have some pretty good legislative liaisons. Are there's three

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Speaker 2: that I know of that we could we could call.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they give us a head stuff a

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Speaker 2: whole lot. But the President himself told me when I

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Speaker 2: was in the Oval Office and we had two others

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Speaker 2: of us in there, they want to do reciprocal tariffs,

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Speaker 2: that somebody's putting a five percent tariff onels, we should

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Speaker 2: do five percent back. I really that's a hard one

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Speaker 2: to attack because I think we like having a level

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Speaker 2: playing field. But I think we went way beyond that.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we're doing well. For example, Israel took

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Speaker 2: off all their terrorifts two weeks ago, and we put

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Speaker 2: a healthy tariff on them after the fact. This is

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Speaker 2: one example. Why are we doing tariff in Canada when

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Speaker 2: we have a trade deal with them and they're abiding

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Speaker 2: by the trade deal. Here's the kind of questions I have,

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Speaker 2: and I don't I think I don't think they are

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Speaker 2: really reciprocal tariffs. If if they were, they would look

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Speaker 2: a lot different.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what which And I guess do you

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Speaker 1: understand what is? What is the goal? And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to sketch it out because if the goal is to

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Speaker 1: essentially reindustriali reindustrialize the United States, then in theory, there

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Speaker 1: should be no negotiations on these terraffs. But if the

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Speaker 1: goal is to lower trade barriers, essentially create a more

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Speaker 1: level playing field, then you're not really going to change

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Speaker 1: the industrial home base of the United States. So do

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Speaker 1: you have a good sense of what the real goal

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Speaker 1: is here of the Trump administration?

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Speaker 2: Now? It's listening to the Treasury Secretary today on one

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Speaker 2: of the talks does in the morning, and I think

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Speaker 2: he made it clear his goal is to bring back

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Speaker 2: industry back to our country. So you light it out

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Speaker 2: pretty clearly. If I've talked to the President and hear

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Speaker 2: him talk, he often talks about level playing field. These

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Speaker 2: guys are blocking our products and so we don't have

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Speaker 2: a fair deal. So you hear a little bit of both,

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Speaker 2: depending on who you're talking to. I believe I'll give

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Speaker 2: you any staff already mentioned that Europe has lots of

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Speaker 2: rules that.

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Speaker 1: Block our exports.

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Speaker 2: We should try to knock those down and talk to

434
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: him about it. And I would go to terrorist right away.

435
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 2: But I would, you know, form some meetings and say, hey,

436
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: it's not fearer. Did you get to sell anything you

437
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: want in our country? And we can't get corn and

438
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: corn and beef and pork into your guys's countries And

439
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 2: we should have we should have the dialogue. But well,

440
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: we'll say the Treasury sectary today it's sure stunted, like

441
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 2: their goal is to bring back manufacturing. And uh, there

442
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: was a lot of questions my mind on that we

443
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: had two workers for every retire e. Now, it's not

444
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: like we were thirty years ago where we had you know,

445
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: ten workers for ever retiree. I'm not sure we have

446
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: that kind of workforce anymore. But I don't know. I

447
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: think it's a high risk move what they're doing here.

448
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: Right, let me just go to exports. If it's not

449
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: as if I would assume Nebraska is making more food

450
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: if you will too, than it needs to feed Nebraska. Right, So,

451
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for exports, the the ag industry at

452
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: Nebraska wouldn't make any money. What you know, if you

453
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: can't sell your beef overseas, where would it go?

454
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would be you'd see a depression in the

455
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: in the beef market. Here is a beef industry, and

456
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: we have we have a great market because people like

457
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 2: Nebraska beef. That's all. It's rolled renown. That is the

458
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: one area that you do find some buyers in Europe

459
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 2: if you stay Nebraska beef though, buy it and they

460
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: put it on their menu as such.

461
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: Omaha steak we have. I mean, you know many a

462
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: holiday we've all gotten our Omaha stage box, right.

463
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: So we would we would probably still have some markets

464
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: to nation, but even then we're putting tariffs on them

465
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: and they're going to reciprocate that, and so it's it's

466
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: gonna at the egg industry suffers in a trade war

467
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: because this is the low hanging fruit for other countries

468
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: go after. When it comes to America, nobody could produce beef, pork, corn,

469
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: soybeans our price that we can in the Midwest because

470
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 2: we do it at a scale that nobody else can

471
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: do it at. Now, we have one rancher here in

472
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: Nebraska has two hundred thousand head of cattle. Our governor

473
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: does like fifteen hundred piglets every day born. It's like

474
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred to the market. But we do it at

475
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: a scale that most people can't think of, that which

476
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: gives us a great price and it makes us very competitive.

477
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: But if we don't have trade, it will it would

478
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: really hurt you know, the midwester to conw It's not

479
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: just Nebraska, Iowa as well.

480
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: Right, well, it's not lost on me that Chuck Grassley,

481
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: Iowa Senator Don Bacon, Nebraska Congressman, you guys are two

482
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: of the co sponsors here essentially make Congress do its

483
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: job again.

484
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: Act.

485
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: I don't know what else it's called, but it's like

486
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: the tariffs are your job, not the president's job. And

487
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: you know this. Look, we have thirty years of this.

488
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: This is bipartisan atrophy, if you will, when it comes

489
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: to congressional action on this stuff. But you know you,

490
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: you and I both know House Republicans are going to

491
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: stick by this president for the most of your colleagues

492
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: are going to stick by him for a while. But

493
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: obviously you introduce it here, it sits here. Is this

494
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: something that a discharge petition some sort of bipartisan majority

495
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: horses this vote, or do you think more time is

496
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: needed for you to make the case to some of

497
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: your Republican colleagues.

498
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: You know, it's a good question. First of all, I

499
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: love the history of I'm a history guy, So you know,

500
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: the Republicans are very protectionist, particularly the late eighteen hundreds.

501
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: We wanted high tariffs. Was the smooth of the smooth

502
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: I I can't think of the last name.

503
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: Holly, yeah, smooth ally not Josh Holly, No no relation, Holly.

504
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: They were both Republicans. They passed this high terriff in

505
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty and that really put us at a deep depression.

506
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: And the Republicans have ever since said, you know, we've

507
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: learned got loss than free trade is the right way

508
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: to go. In fact, that's how you provide the best merchandise,

509
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: you know, the best product, if you will, at the

510
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: lowest costs, in the most efficient manner, and it keeps

511
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: our manufacturers shark because you've got to compete. We've bought

512
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: into this. Now we're going back to our roots. It's funny.

513
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: The Democrats were more pertectious, you know, seventies and eighties.

514
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: Congressmen I was growing up. That was right. It was

515
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: the Democrats for the protectionist party. All I have all

516
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: these you see, I have this little paraphernalia. You know.

517
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: It was the Democrats putting out buttons, you know, Japan

518
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: with a cross in it. You know, all this stuff.

519
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: But there was a young man in the nineteen eighties

520
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: who took out a full page ad trashing America's trade

521
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: policies with Japan. Was that beginning man was Donald Trump?

522
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I was also thinking Buchanan.

523
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was him too. I mean, no, you're not wrong.

524
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: I mean I've always said, Pat Buchanan, the beginning of

525
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: the MAGA movement actually started in nineteen ninety two, right,

526
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of this movement inside your party.

527
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: And now you went from being a majority view in

528
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: your party free traders, you're in the minority. This has

529
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: been a huge switch.

530
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: At the moment, I think you're right because we're following

531
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: the president'sly. But I'm philosophically a Milton Friedman guy. I

532
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: read el the Smith on Free Track in the Invisible Hand. Oh,

533
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: all the kind of stuff I buy into. But it's

534
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: funny that Kress felt like Republicans day. Republican's not like

535
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: dount Crats, and that's sort of be out also in

536
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: Ukraine and Russian same thing. So I called all of

537
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: my peers, or so called right wing Republicans, I call

538
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: them their George mcgovernor Republicans, and they go, who's that.

539
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: I go, Oh, I got ran for president nineteen seventy two,

540
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: and he sounds just like.

541
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: Them, all these same policies. Yeah, let's make a deal

542
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: with the Russian, let's have protection. Yeah yeah, but this

543
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: is always that's happening. We're gonna we're gonna submit this

544
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: bill from Monday.

545
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: And already Third grassling uh and his Democratic colleague, they've

546
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: alady spent at the Senate. They got Southern Republicans already

547
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: are coast flancters. You could see a pathway to sixty here,

548
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: depending out how the market goes, inflation, unemployment, based off

549
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: what happens with what these tariffs. I think it's going

550
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: to be a lot longer for the House to get there.

551
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: I get that, But the Senate is a pascedent, and

552
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: we're not seeing good traction in the economy. You're going

553
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: to see people say, Okay, this is the work and

554
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: we got and we got to restore our authorities in

555
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: the Constitution. It says Congress has the authority for terrorists

556
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: at taxes and by the way, some Repulicans are denial

557
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: perish are attacks on consumers. Wait, just no other way

558
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: around it. That's just what it is. We have that power,

559
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: but we gave it away approximately a century ago an emergency.

560
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: If it's an emergency, then the president could do it.

561
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: So there's the Contress is okay, this is being abused.

562
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: That's not an emergency. This is the whole policy being written.

563
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: Or is it possible the courts will intervene here saying I.

564
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: Was just going to ask you about the courts.

565
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: The courts may take a look at it too.

566
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: They look this. This judiciary seems a little, at least

567
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court, a little hesitant. What I've noticed

568
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: about the Supreme Court, they're hesitant to get involved in

569
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: these fights, but they do. When they do rule, they

570
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: seem to say, hey, Congress has the upper hand here

571
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: if they choose to use it.

572
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: And so they're I think they're they they're interpreting the

573
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: Constitution the way I read it, and I think our

574
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: court's done a great job despite all the criticism that

575
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: you hear from time to time. But this is why

576
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: I see this bill. This bill will probably take a

577
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: little longer in the House. And I think if we

578
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: don't see traction in the economy and we continue to

579
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: see a slime in the market, we may see some inflation.

580
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: This is when people have to raise prices. People may say,

581
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: you know what, this is the Congress role. So I

582
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: think I have this now as something that I believe it. Okay,

583
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: it's very possible that could pick up steam in a

584
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: couple of months and we'll have a ready to go.

585
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: Let's talk about you know, when I first booked you

586
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: was before it was before Wednesday Liberation Day. We can

587
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: make all the liberating ourselves from our savings jokes all

588
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: we want, but you would earlier in the week had

589
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: written this pretty uh, a pretty important op ed about

590
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: Russia Ukraine. And here again you are expressing what I

591
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, what, what you and I grew up with

592
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: as a majority view of what mainstream Republican points of

593
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: view were, and suddenly now you're in the minority again.

594
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: Explain your concerns right now about where things stand with

595
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: the war between Russia and Ukraine.

596
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: I welcome the President trying to bring peace and a ceasefire.

597
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: There was going to be a just piece. It's got

598
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: to be one that respects Ukraine's sovereignty and also their

599
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: ability to align themselves of the West, have a treaties.

600
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: I mean, these are kind of things that are I

601
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: would say red lines in my world for Ukraine. I

602
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: believe it's our national security interests that Ukraine remain independent.

603
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: If they don't and they fall under the Russian fell

604
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: like Moldova, will be next likely Georgia, to other countries

605
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: on the Purfrey worst case scenario, maybe the Baltics or

606
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: part of the NATO, and they're very vulnerable, and so

607
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 2: I just think we should have moral clarity. Russia is

608
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: the invader. Russia. Putin's the dictator. He's killed all of

609
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: his opponents, political opponents. Ukraine is the democracy. Zeleski was

610
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,479
Speaker 2: elected by a free election and the president at times

611
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: has muddled those waters and he's had I would just

612
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: call it moral ambiguity on how this force started and

613
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: who's the bad guy, who's the good guy. And I

614
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: stayed as an American, but I think this just made

615
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: me a traditional Republican. I believe in peace through strength,

616
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: believe in standing up for freedom, free market, rule of law,

617
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: as we have to fight every war, don't want to

618
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: fight every war, but we help out countries for trying

619
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: to do this in their own their own borders and

620
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: push and defend themselves against an invader.

621
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: Uh.

622
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: I can't think of a more righteous fight than Ukraine

623
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: right now, and beyond me, how some of our party

624
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: does not see this with moral clarity. Putin's the bad guy,

625
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: Zeluski's the good guy. Russia is the invader, Ukraine's the defender.

626
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: And I just find had that moral clarity. And I

627
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: want us to provide the weapons and economic support to

628
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: Ukraine and also the economic punishment to Russia. We should

629
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 2: we should try to choke them of every penny.

630
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: Well, they were spared tariffs. How do you feel about that.

631
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: That's a little ridiculous. I don't understand it, and it's

632
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: indefensible when it comes to when it comes to the

633
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: issue of Russia and sort of you talk about moral clarity,

634
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean, I think the President's made

635
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: it pretty clear that he's a transactional guy, that he

636
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: sees this as spheres of influence and then in some ways,

637
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: well Putin's got nuclear weapons, Ukraine doesn't. They're the big

638
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: dog Ukraine. Isn't you know that that feels like sort

639
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: of a bit of a mob mentality view of things. Well,

640
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: that guy's got more control of the turf and it's

641
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: just not worth the fight. I'm maybe I'm being too cynical,

642
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: but is that how you think he thinks about this stuff?

643
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: It's hard to judge motives. I've been careful in my

644
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: life to be.

645
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: Very fair, very fair. It's the bigger it's the biggest

646
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: problem we do in media sometimes is assuming motive. And

647
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: I hear you on that, so I appreciate you saying

648
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: that there's two.

649
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: Or three possibilities, and I think one I've read to

650
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: like you say, they's g Putin and Hill is the

651
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: three big spheres of influence, and then people will fall

652
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: within one or the other. I think he's as North America,

653
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: which is a shame if you're a European and you

654
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: want to be under the sphere of Putin. But I

655
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: don't know that that's really true, and that's that's some

656
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: people think that other people stay strictly as transationalists, like

657
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: you already mentioned. I would it's clearly a total realist,

658
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: and that he doesn't have an idealism DNA in there

659
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: and which could be.

660
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: A good thing in politics, we all politique. There's I mean,

661
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: there's part of me that's like, look, you got to

662
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: have realism. You you you sort of have to do

663
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: diplomacy with the leaders you have, not the leaders you want.

664
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: So a little bit of that is good. I think.

665
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: Realism is not good though. I don't think from my

666
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: I'm look, I that you should have rules because what

667
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: you got to defend your country, know your interests. But

668
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: I also let me stands for good you know, the

669
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: pre markets, democracy, freedom, a rule of law. Those are

670
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: things that we believe in and we have been the

671
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: largest proponents of in the world. After World War Two.

672
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: We've built roughly eighty years of this international rules and

673
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: they've worked.

674
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: And it's going to wait. So we like, you know,

675
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: combining the issue with Russia and Ukraine and tariffs. To

676
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: me is a larger narrative is in what you just described,

677
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: which is there seems to be this belief that the

678
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: last eighty years have been a failure. When I look

679
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: at the last eighty years and you compare it to

680
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: any other eighty year period around the in sort of

681
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: modern civilization and it may be the greatest eighty year

682
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: period of lifting people out of poverty, the greatest eighty

683
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: year period of helping the United States become a power,

684
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: okay without you know, the greatest eighty year period when

685
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: it comes to UH security, both economic and personal security,

686
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: the efforts we've made in health, you just name it.

687
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: It's been an incredible eighty years. And it's amazing to

688
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: me how much, frankly, you get. You get some partisans

689
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: on both sides that just trash how awful the last

690
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: eighty years have been. You know, if these are terrible,

691
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the good years.

692
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 2: This is chuck. It's been America's century, it's been our century,

693
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: and we should not feel ashamed at all about I mean,

694
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: God's been good to us, and so I totally agree

695
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: with what you're saying there. They're even there's balance of trade.

696
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you could dig into that. The fact is real.

697
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: The wealth is nation in the world. We have the

698
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: ability to buy things we want. We like Scotch, we

699
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: like Bordeaux wine, you like you like Central American cigars.

700
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: Let me just start with a basic cup of coffee.

701
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: You talked about cigars in Scotch and that's one thing.

702
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 1: Every a lot of people drink coffee, whether they're working

703
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: class or upper class, and everybody's going to get a

704
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: price hike, probably.

705
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: A fifteen percent increase the cost of coffee, which is

706
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: a shame that but you know, fact, your flipick, this

707
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: is the Purkis country. And I don't want to go

708
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: away from it. I want to I want I'd like

709
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 2: to see America remain the leader of the free world,

710
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: a humble leader of the free world, where we're working

711
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: with NATO, Japan, Australia to counter Russia and China, Iran.

712
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: We're working there out. We can't do it but ourselves.

713
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: But if you do it with Japan and NATO, and

714
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: and I see us right now sort of walking away

715
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: from that, that we're gonna be isolationists. We're just gonna

716
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: worry about ourselves and we're gonna it's gonna be us

717
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: against the world when it comes to the economy, in terrorists.

718
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: That's a more dangerous world. And I don't see that

719
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: as a positive uh directions at all.

720
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: Look, we've been talking mostly about Russia and tariffs, and

721
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: it's been consuming us. But there's a there's a real

722
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: troubling development in Turkey. And what's been most troubling to

723
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: me is how little the United States is officially spoken

724
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: out against what Erwan has done to his chief opponent.

725
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: This is and I look, Turkey diplomacy is very tricky,

726
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: and it's and I look, you know Obama overlooks some

727
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: things with him Trump. You know, again, real politic, it happens.

728
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: But I've been really disappointed in the lack of official

729
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: response on what's happening in Turkey. What about yourself, Well.

730
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: It's increasingly more and more the Turkey can't call themselves

731
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: a democracy. We Ertwan has become the big man just

732
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: sort of like, uh, you know, Putin and G's done,

733
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: but they never had a democracy. You know, it's Putner's g.

734
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 2: But you see Turkey walking away from its democracy roots.

735
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 2: That love has become a NATO allying and we we

736
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: should rethink the future of Turkey when it comes to NATO.

737
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 2: And we've had these issues with the f thirty five

738
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 2: and we're saying so. But Turkey has also been a

739
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: not a good friend of Israel, and I've been very

740
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: a serve in that area. They were a bit of

741
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: a malign influence in Syria when we were there too,

742
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: So it's hard it's Turkey's an offen on friend and.

743
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: That's a tough word to use there.

744
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: But okay, I would say, though they've been a little

745
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 2: more bold in supporting Ukraine against Russia, so I would

746
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: say it's hard to they're not always on the wrong side.

747
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: So it's like I say, they're they're a little bit

748
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: on and off again on this stuff. But I appreciate

749
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: how they spoke up when it goes to Ukraine's sovereignty

750
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: and push it back on our president some of the

751
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: peace or through the negotiations where Turkey feared that Trump

752
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: was forcing Ukraine to make too many concessions.

753
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: Who's Turkey. This spoke up, very very fair point. They've

754
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: been good on that. Not so good to our Kurdish

755
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: allies in the Middle East. I mean, that's that's that's

756
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: even another issue. So but ultimately, look, it's not about

757
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: their policies. It's about are they a democracy or not?

758
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: And if you're not a democracy, you shouldn't be in NATO.

759
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: Don't you agree with that?

760
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: I would agree absolutely. I think we're an alliance of

761
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: free democracies that have a value system that we don't

762
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: always have to. You know, you could have a parliament

763
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: or a congress where it could be different, different certain

764
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: force of democracy, but it should be where the governments

765
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 2: reflect the will of the people.

766
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: Hey, before I let you go, there's two things that

767
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated with about Omaha. One is the College World Series.

768
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in Miami. University of Miami's second home

769
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: was Omaha for the College World Series, So I love

770
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: the College World Series. But the other is, you have

771
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the most famous constituents in America, the

772
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: Oracle of Omaha, mister Warren Buffett.

773
00:41:59,760 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

774
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: I assume that's an asset to you. How often do

775
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: you use him as a sounding board vice versa? What's

776
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: that like when you've got somebody with that kind of influence,

777
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: that kind of wealth, and that kind of mind as

778
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: a constituent.

779
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: You know, I melt with him early on, and I

780
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: was sitting with him in a privately in his office.

781
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: It reminds me of my uncle, very kind, warm hearted, gregarious.

782
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: His dad was the congressman from Olah in the nineteen forties.

783
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: He was a very conservative, anti Roosevelt Republican. So I

784
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: did ask him. I said, Hey, war. What happened. Something

785
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: happened and became a free trader, right, But it was

786
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: fun to talk to him about his dad. His dad

787
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: started the Nebraska Breakfast, which we do every Wednesday in Washington,

788
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 2: d C. We took a good about two hundred Nebraska's

789
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: every Wednesday, and we all the delegation gets about twelve

790
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: minutes to see what they're working on. And it's a

791
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 2: tradition going back to nineteen forty three, which is incredible.

792
00:42:59,719 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: Hi.

793
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: You know, Warren Is helped bring a good economy into Omaha,

794
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: so we got to give them credit for that. But

795
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: truth for me, he doesn't get Toru involved politically. He's

796
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 2: pretty non political. A politically was a verbal supporter of

797
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, but beyond that it hasn't got too involved.

798
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: His son, Howard Is I've developed a pretty well a

799
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: great relationship with him. Him and I share concerns about Ukraine.

800
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: I visited a military unit on the front.

801
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: Well, he's done a whole bunch of stuff on his own. Yes,

802
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: with Ukraine, so I mean, just an amazing business. One

803
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: unit in Harkiev last September. I was on the front lines.

804
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: First American congressman. I was with two others to really

805
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: get that close on the front lines. It was the

806
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: unit that he's helped close and give weapons to. So

807
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: he reached out to me and we've been We talk

808
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: about every week now and so I have a good

809
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: rapport with them. Warren's is auditors, a little more of

810
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: the Democrats side, but we still have a good relationship

811
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: every off kits. I got two kids, they're they may

812
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: be going in different directions. You just you never know.

813
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: I would.

814
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: I have more of a rapport with Susie and Howard.

815
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: That's why I talked to you more. I really talk

816
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: to Howard about every week and that's the and I

817
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: enjoy it. You know, the guy has invested in Ukraine significantly,

818
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 2: and I appreciate. You know, he puts his money where

819
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: his heartstap and his mouth that he's he's walking the talk.

820
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: You were, you're you spent a lengthy you had a

821
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: lengthy career in the military. You are very familiar with

822
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: sort of I think you ended in Nebraska at off

823
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: it if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong,

824
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: if I'm getting that wrong. But I'm curious what you

825
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: make of the various cut potential cuts that are coming

826
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: in the military. What what concerned What are the cuts

827
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: you think are smart and what are the cuts are

828
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: you concerned about, particularly regionally.

829
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: I think we'll actually be growing the military. We're going

830
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: to have a significant plus up in the military spending.

831
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: I don't mind cutting some so we should review an audit. No,

832
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: but we're gonna actually grow our budget and up. We're

833
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: gonna try to get her sulitary sputting up to four

834
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: percent GDP, So I don't think we're gonna be going

835
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 2: backwards on that. What I'm a little more worried about

836
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: is the just rapid firing of some of her top

837
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 2: generals without explanation. And those are what's our right.

838
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: To cyber They the cyberfirings that apparently are linked to Look,

839
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make you comment on her this

840
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: lawer Lumer, but sometimes I look at her and think

841
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: she's like a character in some movie, Like she doesn't

842
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: even seem like a real but she's somebody like this

843
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: have this kind of influence of our cyber command.

844
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: She's right off the movie Poulter guysty you said it.

845
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: There you go.

846
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: She's she's crazy and I'll leave it at that. And

847
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: she No, the President denies that she had a part

848
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 2: of this firing, but the fact that she was there

849
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: that day or the day prior and recommended the draw

850
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: Hawk and four or five others to get fired, and

851
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: they did get fired, and there's no other explanation for it.

852
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: I know, draw Hawk, Drawhawk. We here's the colonel. When

853
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: I was a one star, he spent thirty four years

854
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: in the Air Force, and every assignment other than schools,

855
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: he served either in signals intelligence or cyber operations. There

856
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: was nobody more prepared to run cyber Command and National

857
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: Security Agency than him. He was the best that we

858
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: had in our military, and he was good. And he

859
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: got fired for no apparent reason, although they said he

860
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: was They said treason us, which is Bologney, total boloone.

861
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: This guy was the American patriot and it set us back.

862
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: It set us back in cyber operations and our signals intelligence.

863
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 2: We're not as good today as we were last week. Okay,

864
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 2: tell people are fighting. Do you trust look the way

865
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Congress is being run right now. Do you trust that

866
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: we're going to get genuine oversight over these decisions? Well,

867
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: we're going to in this because I'm the chairman of

868
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 2: the Cyber Subcommittee. So I have a saying, we're gonna

869
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 2: ask and you know, we're gonna bring in the leaders

870
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: and the Democrats ask whatever they want, and I get

871
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: to ask whatever I want. You're gonna have some of

872
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: arm party may not go down this path, but you're

873
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 2: gonna bring in the Sectuary of Defense. We're gonna bring

874
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: in uh, you know, the chair, the future chair of

875
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: the Joint Chiefs, and we're going and they're gonna get

876
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: these questions, even if it's not the purpose of that

877
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: committee hearing. People don't pocus ask whatever they want. So

878
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: we're gonna get some oversight of this. But here's my point,

879
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 2: and I made it today public claim. Yeah, the prison

880
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 2: that has the constitutional authory to do this, It doesn't

881
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: make it right. And Deck Dick, Okay, I was gonna

882
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 2: cost if I won't cost it hurt us. This move

883
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: hurt America. We're not as good today. And I guarantee

884
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 2: you Russia and China are like laughing at us because

885
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: we do something so stupid.

886
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: This this everything, you know, it's funny you say this

887
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: and look at it. You know, I'm not gonna put

888
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: my conspiracy hat on. But whether it's the tariffs, whether

889
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: it's the reproach Mont to Russia, or whether it's these firings.

890
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: The only beneficial seemed to be Shan Putin.

891
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think there's a conspiracy or I don't

892
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: know what try cause the popularism. There's probably a very

893
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 2: we said the know Nothing party, you know, back in

894
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:10,959
Speaker 2: the eighteen forties.

895
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the No Nothing that was a very dangerous movement.

896
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize it.

897
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: So there is this element that believes the stuff that

898
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: anybody that's the incumbent is bad. All these generals were bad,

899
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 2: Russia not so bad. Ukraine's they're they're taking our money.

900
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: There's a whole echo system out here that are living

901
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 2: on certain social media and cable and that's what they

902
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: hear and and I see it. I got like folks

903
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: with two million followers that don't like me because I

904
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 2: believe by believing there. But they all feed off each other.

905
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: And they believed that jeral Hawk was bad for no reason.

906
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: It's just what they had a reason because Jeroal Milly

907
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: was the chairman when he became the commander of cyber Commands.

908
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: So guilt by association of the mind, because Jerol Milly

909
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: was not liked even.

910
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: Learning of course General Milly was appointed by Donald Trump. Yeah,

911
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: that that never seems to matter to people.

912
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: And I would say jeral Brown, the chairman of the

913
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: Joint Chiefs, he got fire for no reason. They did

914
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: offer reason. I don't know of a reason to fire them,

915
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 2: and all that does is hurt us. It puts us

916
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: on our heels and increased the lack of trust at

917
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: the very top. I know this one of these generals

918
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: and they're like, don I could be next. Yeah, and

919
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't like getting fired if I

920
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: did something wrong, But in these cases are just guys

921
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: that getting fired for the whims of whoever.

922
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: Before I let you go. One of my theses these

923
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: days is that we have two political parties that are

924
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: trying to take the place of four political movements, meaning

925
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 1: both parties are arguably too big for their coalitions. Can

926
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: you imagine today where the Republican Party just split in two?

927
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 2: So how we got the Republican Party to begin with?

928
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: They broke off with the Whigs and we have Freemontos,

929
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: our first dominie of the Abraham Lincoln.

930
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,959
Speaker 1: So not a bad run. Yeah, it was a pretty

931
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: good run.

932
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 2: But you're right, there's we have the populist wing, we

933
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: have the Reagan wing, and I am clearly on the

934
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: Reagan wing of this party. The Democrat Party, I would

935
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: say two has their populace. You know, you have AOC

936
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: gunning after Schumer right now because he dared to keep

937
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: the government open. And so there is And I do

938
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: think I used to think of politics as a lineum

939
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: or linear thing, but it really is a horseshoe that

940
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 2: closes at the top. And you have our populist wing.

941
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: They're now voting with AOC on a whole variety of

942
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 2: national security measures, Ukraine, Faiza, the defense budget, you name it.

943
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: They've they've gone all the way over and they're they're together.

944
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: And I think we started off our show this way.

945
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: When I talked to Democrats today, the traditional ones, they

946
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: sound like Ronald Reagan, I thought, there are populists. They

947
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: sound like George Wad governor.

948
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: And well, we're in the middle of a political realignment.

949
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. And I think that maybe

950
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: it'll it'll all look more obvious in fifty years when

951
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: you and I are gone, and some historians are figuring

952
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: it out. But it is a tough place to be

953
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of.

954
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I my main goal is not to win. My

955
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: main goal is to be on the right side and

956
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: try to make a case, to try to pull people over.

957
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: With that attitude, you can't get hurt because it's got

958
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: some door shuts. None of the door is going to open, right.

959
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 2: That's how I look at it. God's in charge.

960
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: And the thing that is remarkable to me about you

961
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: is you keep coming back for more every two years.

962
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 1: I you know, some people in your position go find

963
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: a six year or four year term to run for

964
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: something else. What keeps you coming back every two years

965
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: for what is always a multimillion dollar race, you know,

966
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: fingernail biting, et cetera. What brings you coming back every

967
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: two years? Well, up until now, it's been love of country.

968
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I really believe. I missioned serve God, serve

969
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 1: my country. Being a Republican is not you know, I'm

970
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: not because that's what I believe. But it's more about

971
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: my beliefs than being part of a team.

972
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: I want. I want, that's my compass. You must be exhausted,

973
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: but it's about serving our country. I love Abraham Lincoln,

974
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: I love Iike Eisenhower. I love Ronald Reagan. I love

975
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 2: people who I love Winston Churchill. I love people who've

976
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: made a difference and stood. If I think about my

977
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: favorite leaders, they were unpopular at a time, but then

978
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: world events show that they were the ones that were right.

979
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Churchill was very unpopular in the nineteen thirties, slolely.

980
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: By nineteen forty, they go, that's the only guy that

981
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: knows what's going on here. And really he.

982
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: Became unpopular again, by the way by the late forties.

983
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: But those are the people I admire that they follow

984
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: a compass and I want to get things, you know,

985
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: the good. The one eighteenth Congress, of all four hundred

986
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: and threty five congressmen, I got the most bills passed

987
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: and signed in the Law nine loss. In the one

988
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 2: seventeenth Congress, I was number two of four to thirty five.

989
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 2: I've been able to repair two military bases in my district.

990
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: We have an international airport because it's some of the

991
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: work myself with a dub fisher. I feel like I'm

992
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: having an impact, and that's brought me back now. Two

993
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 2: years ago I debated about running again, and I couldn't

994
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: let there's one of my Democrat opponents was going to

995
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: get back in the ring, and I felt like I

996
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: had to win. But also the Republican Party in Nebraska

997
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: endorsed against me and censored me, and I felt like

998
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: I needed to show them if they did not reflect

999
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 2: the majority of the people. So I felt like if

1000
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: I came back this last election, what I'm getting results

1001
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 2: For Two, I felt like I couldn't let the far

1002
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: left or the far right chase me out. I needed

1003
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: to show them I can win and defeat both of them.

1004
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: And that's what we did this last this last election.

1005
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: You know, I was still debating about the upcoming election.

1006
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: My wife has a vote, I have eight grandkids, and

1007
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 2: I do think this is not the healthiest lifestyle. I

1008
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: would so's there's some soul searching and praying go on

1009
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: going on for what is she do in the future.

1010
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: But I do know this God has a plan and

1011
00:53:58,640 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna do the best I can.

1012
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: Well, Congressman, you've been very generous with your time this

1013
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: Sunday afternoon, and this is what I've you know, I

1014
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: think I've interviewed you probably a dozen times, but there

1015
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: were always five to ten minute interviews. There's something about

1016
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: this is what I've been most enthusiastic about about moving

1017
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 1: to here. It's like letting it breathe, letting people get

1018
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: to know who you are, what makes you tick. I

1019
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it as well.

1020
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: Thank you, and I always followed just Spuck and Jusull.

1021
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,959
Speaker 2: I just felt like you were fairer. You asked tough questions,

1022
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: but there were fair I've had a few interviews where

1023
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 2: let's talk about Ukraine and also they tell you, you know,

1024
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: I've found ninety five forer so of my time talking

1025
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: about the Georgia set up. Race. I go, I'm from Nebraska.

1026
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 2: I don't get why do you ask you those I

1027
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 2: thought we're talking about Ukraine. I've always pull like good questions.

1028
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 2: We want to get it, gotcha moment to put you

1029
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 2: to make you go viral? Right, isn't that what the

1030
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 2: whole No, I'm kidding the whole world.

1031
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: But I wish you all, thank you, sir, all right,

1032
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: enjoy and uh I'll tell you Miami's not going this

1033
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 1: year to the College World Series, but the next time

1034
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: they do, I'm getting up there and I'm gonna force

1035
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: you to force you to buy me a hot talk.

1036
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: Well, we should do one or two games the year

1037
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: at the World Series. It's fun.

1038
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a great event. I

1039
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: actually did get to go once. It's unbelievable. It's a

1040
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: great event.

1041
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: Forbes rated Omaha the number one city in America for

1042
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:21,959
Speaker 2: a reason. We're good.

1043
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: There you go. We've done the Chamber of Commerce duty.

1044
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: They owe us both thank you carts on this one. Congressman,

1045
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,720
Speaker 1: this is great. Appreciate it.

1046
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: Well.

1047
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: As you saw, I ended our conversation sort of where

1048
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to begin this podcast, which is, you know,

1049
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: is this the start of a larger of a larger

1050
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: breakup or a larger realignment inside the Republican Party. As

1051
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: you saw Don Bacon very much a student of history,

1052
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 1: bringing up the know, nothing's there. Look, I think it's

1053
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: it's just going to be a lot easier to see

1054
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: in fifty years. As I said during our interview, when

1055
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm long gone, I can't you know, I can't wait

1056
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: for the for to see tod you know, to be

1057
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: a political scientist thirty years from now and dig in

1058
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: sort of to what was really happening here, right and

1059
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: being able to sort of correctly observe. I don't think

1060
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: people understood what was happening in the nineteen twenties and

1061
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: thirties in the moment. Now we now know, Wow, all

1062
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: of those terrible economic decisions actually led to the rise

1063
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: of Hitler. Right, So it sometimes though you need space

1064
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: in order to see what's happening there. Obviously, I part

1065
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: of me wishes people would learn the history of learn

1066
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 1: we could learn more with histories and so many times

1067
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: decisions while they don't repeat themselves, they often rhyme with

1068
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: where things are. But anyway, I thought, I think it's

1069
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: it's very clear that Congressman Bacon comes from sort of

1070
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 1: as he said, he is calling it the Reagan wing.

1071
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of maga who want to you know,

1072
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: Reagan is one of those they fight over who gets

1073
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: to have him. But I really think he really gave

1074
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: away to me who he is. But Eisenhower, you know

1075
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: that that's you know, the Eisenhower and sort of where

1076
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: I think Reagan came from those sort of nationalist grassroots

1077
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: in the Barry Goldwater era, but he sort of evolved

1078
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: into somebody that was a bit more of an internationalist

1079
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Then he certainly put

1080
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: it this way. Nineteen eighty Reagan was a lot different,

1081
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: I would argue in the nineteen seventy six Reagan on

1082
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: that ideological front. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation.

1083
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: I do think to understanding the dynamics of the Republican

1084
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: Party today, that's as good of a conversation as you

1085
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 1: can have with somebody who's in the middle of these fights.

1086
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: Keep an eye on him. He didn't sound like a

1087
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: guy that might not be that's going to be seeking

1088
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: reelection for what it's worth, But I'll let him make

1089
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: his decision. I'm not going to overread those tea leads,

1090
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: but I do think if he isn't seeking reelection, my

1091
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: guess is he'll even be more comfortable speaking truth to

1092
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: power on where he thinks direction of the Republican Party

1093
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: ought to go. And here we go with an ask

1094
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: Chuck question. This one is from Tyler Stephie. He's a

1095
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: current student at GW, so he said it was great

1096
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: to hear Jake and I discussed the basketball program from GW.

1097
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm glad to see he listened all the way to

1098
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: the end and to get some attention for GW revolutionary basketball.

1099
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: But here's his question. Do you think the latest data

1100
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: for Progress poll showing Ocasio Cortes AOC with a nineteen

1101
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: point lead over Schumer and a potential twenty twenty eight

1102
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,959
Speaker 1: primary weill had any impact on his and the rest

1103
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: of the Senate leadership's current makeup or strategy. Thank you much,

1104
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: keep up the inspiring work on independent journalism, Tyler. I

1105
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: appreciate the question. Look, I'm gonna be honest, I'm a

1106
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: tad skeptical of the poll. I'm not skeptical of the

1107
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: direction that I do. I think there's more animation right

1108
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: now in the Democratic Party that I view the poll

1109
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: more as anti Schumer than pro AOC. I would be

1110
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: careful assuming that that is exactly how it would play,

1111
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, Chuck Schumer's ability to connect

1112
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: with Western New Yorkers, upstate New Yorkers, It's why he

1113
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: became a Senator in the first place. He is not

1114
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: somebody that's been stuck just worrying about the five boroughs

1115
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: of New York City. I think it is so. But

1116
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: to me, I do think the poll should serve as

1117
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: a bit of a warning shot to Democratic leadership that

1118
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: there is that the status quo is not something people

1119
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: want that they may be willing to go with somebody

1120
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: that there may be politically to their left politically they're

1121
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: a little less comfortable with, simply because it's time for

1122
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: a new generation of leadership. The question I have though,

1123
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: is whether whether AOC really wants to be just another

1124
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: senator or does she want to use her political influence

1125
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: to shape a presidential race even if she doesn't win it.

1126
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: Many ways, running and losing a presidential race, see Bernie

1127
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: Sanders can actually give you more leverage in the party

1128
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: than winning a US Senate seat and being sort of,

1129
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, one of say forty seven to fifty two,

1130
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: depending on how many seats your party has at any

1131
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: given time and how much influence you have there. So

1132
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: I think the significance of Schumer's performance in the poll

1133
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: is what I am most focused on. Less her number right,

1134
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: to me, it was really about about the message to

1135
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: Schumer there. So you know, again, I think what's going

1136
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: to be more interesting is to see which way she

1137
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: goes and look, as I said at the beginning in

1138
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: my opener on this podcast, is there. You know, I

1139
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: think the ingredients are there if we if we had

1140
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: a if we had an infrastructure that allowed for essentially

1141
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: four major parties rather than two, well AOC would be

1142
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: the heir apparent to Sanders and running that one one

1143
01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: fourth major party right on that, on that, on that wall.

1144
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: So I think what I'm going to be intrigued about

1145
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: is where how that you know, right now, there's a

1146
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of anger at Trump, but

1147
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: not every progressive Democrat thinks tariffs are a bad thing.

1148
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: So how the opposition on the left formulates itself? Is

1149
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: it going to be are they going to set aside

1150
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: their own differences or is this going to be a

1151
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: moment where you start to see Democratic primaries that are

1152
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: actually very high profile and half sort of high profile

1153
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: ideological clashes like we've seen on the Republican side. And

1154
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: many a Democrat thought that was, you know, the more

1155
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,680
Speaker 1: they saw that on the Republican side, the weaker that

1156
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: made the Republican Party, ironically and ended up strengthening the

1157
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,959
Speaker 1: Republican Party in strengthening Donald Trump. So I might argue,

1158
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: and I've said it before, that I think the Democrats

1159
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: would benefit of having a lot of primaries that were

1160
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: similar to an AOC versus Schumer and have them all

1161
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: over the country and sort of get a better sense,

1162
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: get back in touch with the grassroots of their party,

1163
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: and make sure there is representative of where the party

1164
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: wants to go, more so than perhaps where the donors

1165
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: want the party to want to go. So I certainly

1166
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: think as we as I focus on the fracture that

1167
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: I think is taking place on the right side of

1168
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: the political spectrum in this country, a fracture on the

1169
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: left side of this country is almost just as possible.

1170
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: So with that, I will wrap up. I do want

1171
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: to I was going to say I was going to

1172
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: use the expression not to sound like a humble brag,

1173
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: but it's not a humble brag. I'm very excited I

1174
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: have Houston winning the whole thing, and I have Yukon

1175
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: winning the whole thing. I may I've never done this before,

1176
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: and of course by uttering it now, I am proving

1177
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: number one that I'm taping this just before the end

1178
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: of the Yukon South Carolina game on Sunday, and I'm

1179
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: doing this before obviously the Florida Houston game. But I

1180
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: am really excited that I might do something I've never done,

1181
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: which is pick both national champs. Right now, of course,

1182
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 1: I can't win any of my I think I have

1183
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: one family pool I can win if Houston wins. But

1184
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: even if you Kon wins, I'm not the highest point total,

1185
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: because you'll be shocked to know this. I wasn't the

1186
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: only one in a couple of the pools that I

1187
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: was in that thought Yukon would win the whole thing.

1188
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: But hey, I just wanted to get on the record

1189
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: was saying, I think I'm on the verge of getting

1190
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: as close that I've ever had of having a men's

1191
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: women's basketball suite. So I'm going to pull a muscle

1192
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: to pat myself on the back and with that until

1193
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: we upload the game.