Speaker 1: But let's practice meditations so that we're practicing for being
Speaker 1: pressed with the rest of our lives. Or we're falling
Speaker 1: in love all over again, or you know, we could
Speaker 1: have a difficult conversation with this guy that we're seeing
Speaker 1: because he didn't make us come Welcome to the one
Speaker 1: you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance
Speaker 1: of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think, ring true. And yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is
Speaker 1: Lodro Wrinsler, practitioner and teacher in the Shambala Buddhist lineage.
Speaker 1: He's the best selling author of The Buddha Walks into
Speaker 1: a Bar and the new book Walk Like a Buddha.
Speaker 1: Over the last decade, he's taught numerous workshops at meditation
Speaker 1: centers and college campuses throughout the United States. Loadro's columns
Speaker 1: also appear in The Huffington Post and Marie Claire Online.
Speaker 1: You can find out more about Lodro in our show
Speaker 1: notes at one you Feed dot net slash Lodro. Hi, Lodro,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Oh, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: So our podcast is based on the parable of two Wolves,
Speaker 1: which I know that you know because you included it
Speaker 1: in your most recent book. And the parable goes something like,
Speaker 1: there's a grandfather who is talking with his grandson and
Speaker 1: he says, in life, there's a great battle, uh, inside
Speaker 1: both of us between two wolves. One is a good wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents kindness and love and joy, and the other
Speaker 1: is a bad wolf, which represents greed and fear and hate.
Speaker 1: And the grandson thinks for a second and looks at
Speaker 1: his grandfather and says, which one wins, And the grandfather says,
Speaker 1: the one you feed. So our podcast is, uh, you
Speaker 1: know what we try and really at least start off
Speaker 1: focusing on is what does that parable mean to you
Speaker 1: in your life and in your work? You know, it's
Speaker 1: so interesting. So I was, you know, as raised Buddhist
Speaker 1: and I've been practicing meditation all my life and I've
Speaker 1: been teaching meditation for about the last twelve years, and
Speaker 1: it was I just heard that parable maybe a year
Speaker 1: and a half ago, and it really spoke to me.
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things. I'm sure you guys
Speaker 1: have had these sorts of moments too, where you hear
Speaker 1: something and say, oh, I've been trying to say that
Speaker 1: for so long, and um, for me, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: really you know, the statement of purpose. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of what I my work revolves
Speaker 1: around is not necessarily the esoteric aspects of Buddhism, but
Speaker 1: it's about making it accessible. And you know, with the
Speaker 1: introduction of meditation practice and really trying to get people
Speaker 1: to do that regularly is basically me saying, can we
Speaker 1: actually evolve and be kind of, you know, more compassionate
Speaker 1: human beings? Can we start feeding that as supposed to
Speaker 1: the habitual way that we've always been, um, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to put ourselves before others, the ways that we've
Speaker 1: been trying to be aggressive to ourselves and others all
Speaker 1: of that. So it really did speak to me because
Speaker 1: I think that's the bottom line when I think about
Speaker 1: my own spiritual life and my own meditation practice, it
Speaker 1: comes down to am I actually becoming a kind of
Speaker 1: person out of this? And if not, what am I
Speaker 1: doing here? Excellent? Yeah, one of the things you start
Speaker 1: your book off by saying, and I'm going to read
Speaker 1: you a quote, which I think is a really um
Speaker 1: it's a very um sort of startling way to start
Speaker 1: a book, but I thought it was I thought it
Speaker 1: was worth talking through here. And you say, straight off
Speaker 1: the bat, I should mention that I'm sort of a mess,
Speaker 1: and also, okay, sometimes I'm sad or angry, and yet
Speaker 1: I'm also confident that at m core I'm a Buddha.
Speaker 1: Could you elaborate a little bit on on what you
Speaker 1: mean by that. Yeah, thanks for asking that, because that
Speaker 1: was a very intentional way for me to lead. And
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, this is my second book. My first
Speaker 1: book was called The Buddha Walks into a Bar And
Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, you know, I'm thirty one
Speaker 1: years old. I'm not the learned monk at your local
Speaker 1: monastery that's been you know, you climbed the mountain to
Speaker 1: go see. I'm a person. I'm a guy, you know,
Speaker 1: just a regular guy that's been meditating for a long time.
Speaker 1: And I try and make that very clear, particularly coming
Speaker 1: off of the I think people actually skip over that,
Speaker 1: but particularly coming off the first book. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people coming to me and saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I look up to what you're saying. Here, can you
Speaker 1: give me x Y and Z advice? And I'm always
Speaker 1: have me to discuss people's situations with them. But I
Speaker 1: don't think of myself as some sort of great expert.
Speaker 1: It's not like I'm the guru that people should go
Speaker 1: to it by any means. I'm a person who contemplates
Speaker 1: these things a lot and likes to be in discussion
Speaker 1: with people about it. So there are moments where I
Speaker 1: still feed the wrong wolf, and I'm very straightforward about that,
Speaker 1: that I make mistakes and that I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: some um, some you know, wonderful figure that that is
Speaker 1: done with that path of mistakes. It's something I actively
Speaker 1: engage and learn from. But um at the same time,
Speaker 1: I do have this deep experience and belief in what
Speaker 1: within the Buddhist tradition we call what a nature, or
Speaker 1: within the Shimba Labou tradition we call basic goodness, This
Speaker 1: idea that you know, inherently we're not basically messed up. Inherently,
Speaker 1: we're actually basically good, that we're actually you know, nice, kind,
Speaker 1: changing people, and that's our birthright. And it's just that
Speaker 1: we get confused at times, were habituated defeating the wrong wolf,
Speaker 1: and then as a result, we end up perpetuating more confusion.
Speaker 1: That was actually the next the next question I had
Speaker 1: for you was to talk a little bit more about
Speaker 1: that that concept of basic goodness, which is really sort
Speaker 1: of within uh Shambala and a lot of other areas,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of it's pretty contradictory towards what we
Speaker 1: see here in the West normally, right, the concept of
Speaker 1: original sin. It's almost the exact opposite of that. And
Speaker 1: um in your book you talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: how you can apply that idea of basic goodness to
Speaker 1: absolutely anyone. So if you could maybe talk a minute
Speaker 1: about how applying that concept of basic goodness to yourself
Speaker 1: is helpful, and then also how applying it to people
Speaker 1: who are difficult in your life, is helpful? Sure, happy
Speaker 1: to so, as you said, I mean, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a I wouldn't even necessarily called a Christian point of view,
Speaker 1: almost consumer point of view, that we're never quite good enough,
Speaker 1: that we're always basically flawed and we need another product,
Speaker 1: or another relationship or another job to actually make us whole.
Speaker 1: And the Buddha's point of view is that that's not
Speaker 1: necessarily true, that we're actually already a whole, and that
Speaker 1: if we could just get to become more familiar with
Speaker 1: ourselves and we would really experience that more deeply. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's the practice of meditation that's discussed within both
Speaker 1: of my books. The Budda walks into a bar and
Speaker 1: walk like a Buddha where we go into one of
Speaker 1: the tebend words of meditation, which is gone g O M,
Speaker 1: and it becomes translates more directly. Has become familiar with
Speaker 1: our familiarity, i e. We're starting to become more familiar
Speaker 1: with our own mind, the ways that we actually act
Speaker 1: out that to continue to go with the parable, the
Speaker 1: ways that we feed the wrong wolf, all of the
Speaker 1: habitual stuff that sort of gets that sort of allows
Speaker 1: us to get in our own way. And if we
Speaker 1: could actually start to discern what those are, then we
Speaker 1: could start to um not necessarily buy into that same
Speaker 1: habitual framework. We can actually create new patterns that might
Speaker 1: actually be a little bit more helpful for us. We
Speaker 1: can actually learn to feed the right wolf sometimes. Um.
Speaker 1: So this is in addition to just sort of becoming
Speaker 1: familiar with our our neurosis, we also become more familiar
Speaker 1: with this concept of basic goodness. It doesn't become a concept,
Speaker 1: it becomes an experience where we actually start to say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what this is underneath all these layers of confusion,
Speaker 1: I actually feel somewhat peaceful, like maybe that's really who
Speaker 1: I am. So that's um, that's the concept of basic
Speaker 1: goodness for ourselves. And then the interesting thing is we
Speaker 1: have this moment where we look out and we say, gosh,
Speaker 1: I guess everyone else has this too. It's not just
Speaker 1: me that is basically good or you know, have the
Speaker 1: ability to wake up or this the innately kind, good,
Speaker 1: worthy individual is everyone. So um, you know there's I
Speaker 1: talk about you know, your jerk of a boss, that
Speaker 1: that person really ultimately is basically good and ultimately confused
Speaker 1: just like we are, or all the way up to
Speaker 1: there's a section in there on psychopaths and sociopaths people
Speaker 1: that you know, I've gotten a lot of flat for
Speaker 1: saying this, but you know, these are human beings. From
Speaker 1: the boost point of view, they possessed basic goodness. And
Speaker 1: people say, you know, they're not even real because they
Speaker 1: don't possessed empathy. I think, um, it becomes very theoretical,
Speaker 1: very uh philosophical. And I was having one of those
Speaker 1: discussions while I was on book tour. I was in
Speaker 1: North Carolina and I was being driven back to where
Speaker 1: I was staying by this woman and she said, you know,
Speaker 1: I was actually sort of moved by what happened there today.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, you know what, I sort of it
Speaker 1: was getting a little old hat talking about this whole
Speaker 1: like this Hitler possessed basic goodness thing. And she said,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm married. Both me and my husband
Speaker 1: have children from previous marriages. We raised them together from
Speaker 1: middle school. One of them started spinning out a little
Speaker 1: bit in his early twenties. People, and there's the story
Speaker 1: progressed to the point where she revealed that this her
Speaker 1: stepchild um ended up joining with his friends in the
Speaker 1: murder of a young boy. And he isn't jail. And
Speaker 1: she said that she you know, she had been practicing
Speaker 1: meditation before that happened, And when this happened, it sort
Speaker 1: of shook her faith in basic goodness. Now, how could
Speaker 1: this individual that she had raised could how is how
Speaker 1: could he possess the ability to do what he had done?
Speaker 1: And Um, she started visiting him after a period of
Speaker 1: time when she felt like she could, And after a
Speaker 1: period of time she actually started to see him reveal
Speaker 1: who he previously was a little bit. Once he had
Speaker 1: sort of relaxed into the environment, he started asking about
Speaker 1: the household animals, He started actually requesting art supplies because
Speaker 1: he wanted to paint again. Things like that, where all
Speaker 1: of a sudden he wasn't as hardened criminal. He was
Speaker 1: her child again. He was, um, this being who really
Speaker 1: did have that capacity to love and be loved, which
Speaker 1: she hadn't seen in many years. So I was deeply
Speaker 1: touched by that story, um, And it made it less
Speaker 1: theoretical for me, at least, the fact that even evil
Speaker 1: who are able to commit atrocious crimes ultimately do have
Speaker 1: the ability to review their own basicalness. Do you think
Speaker 1: does does Buddhism posit any of the reasons that people
Speaker 1: can go so far from um basic goodness into sort
Speaker 1: of such an extreme as as you were just talking about,
Speaker 1: Because if you start from a concept of original sin,
Speaker 1: it's not that far to to do in something uh
Speaker 1: necessarily bad. Whereas you know, it seems like a pretty
Speaker 1: long journey if you start out start out basically good.
Speaker 1: What do you think are some of the things that
Speaker 1: that happened to us along the way. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's tricky because I mean, even in that story
Speaker 1: I just told, you know, this woman basically what sounded
Speaker 1: like is that this her son started hanging out with
Speaker 1: the wrong crowd, and it's like, well, you know, is
Speaker 1: that all it takes? Sometimes I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, you know, I can talk into
Speaker 1: a broad brush strokes where I do feel like people
Speaker 1: are are certainly products of their of their environments, and
Speaker 1: I do feel like, you know, within systems, we actually
Speaker 1: have systems that are reify certain values, and some systems
Speaker 1: reify the values of m making a lot of money.
Speaker 1: In some systems reify values of you know, trying to
Speaker 1: be tough or trying to make a name for yourself
Speaker 1: in other ways. And you know, I think the one
Speaker 1: of the more interesting things for me is not necessarily
Speaker 1: to sit there and say, Okay, here's why people get
Speaker 1: to the point where they can create you know, atrocities,
Speaker 1: or you know, here's that line between mental illness and
Speaker 1: people not being able to help themselves or people who
Speaker 1: are just um, you know, products of society and video
Speaker 1: game violence. It's it's more interesting for me personally to
Speaker 1: start to dive into those communities and um and start
Speaker 1: to work with individuals on on the ground. So one
Speaker 1: of the things that I've been trying to emphasize is
Speaker 1: doing more and more volunteer work myself. I work with
Speaker 1: the rest of Frosty Foundation, which is a homeless aid
Speaker 1: organization here in New York that takes something of a
Speaker 1: holistic approach to homeless youth. And and you know, I've
Speaker 1: definitely been trying to encourage other people to do similar things.
Speaker 1: I also started and then called the Institute for Compassionate Leadership,
Speaker 1: which is sort of like my my idea of an
Speaker 1: incubator for young people in particular, but anyone really who
Speaker 1: wants to create social change, they're not exactly sure what
Speaker 1: they want to do. So they come through our training
Speaker 1: program that's part community organizing, part meditation, part traditional leadership skills,
Speaker 1: and and actually started to get focused on how they
Speaker 1: want to create change in the world and volunteering and
Speaker 1: then ultimately getting meaningful work in that field. Um so
Speaker 1: it's for me personally, I've start tried to step a
Speaker 1: little away from the how could this possibly happen and
Speaker 1: and get more into the how could we treat it
Speaker 1: a little bit more? Yeah, trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: things happened is often a there's there's no real point
Speaker 1: to it. I think the Buddha himself right said something
Speaker 1: like if you and shot with an arrow, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense to sit around and think about who shot
Speaker 1: the arrow and what was on the arrow, and you
Speaker 1: know what their family was like you pull out the arrow.
Speaker 1: I completely agree with that. I you know, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be some listeners out there saying, well,
Speaker 1: if you don't understand the system, how could we create change?
Speaker 1: And I am happy to admit that. I'm sure there
Speaker 1: are smarter people in higher positions who help really start
Speaker 1: to shape the system. And um, you know, I'm happy
Speaker 1: to know some of those people. But I personally, my
Speaker 1: my view my role as on the ground, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm more of on the ground foot soldiers
Speaker 1: put some great philosopher. So speaking of you just touched
Speaker 1: a little bit on community organizing and on the ground
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh. I realized in your reading your
Speaker 1: book that you spent a fair amount of time in
Speaker 1: our hometown here. We're from Columbus, Ohio. Yeah. Yeah, share
Speaker 1: a little bit about your time here and maybe what
Speaker 1: you were doing and what you think about Columbus. Sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, um, the end it up in Columbus in
Speaker 1: something of a circuitous way, in that I lost a
Speaker 1: friend in July and that person had been a long
Speaker 1: time Obama staff are starting in the in the Senate
Speaker 1: race of two thousand four and um, in my own complete,
Speaker 1: you know, valley of grief, not knowing exactly what I
Speaker 1: should do, some of his colleagues pushed me to go
Speaker 1: where I can make a difference and carry on his work,
Speaker 1: and I ended up in Columbus, Ohio. So I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: if you put a gun to my head and said
Speaker 1: white Columbus, I would have said Because people said go
Speaker 1: to Columbus, uh, and you know I was very influent, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Swing State, And I mean, you know, I once I
Speaker 1: got there and actually realized the work that my friend
Speaker 1: had been doing for so many years, and just you know,
Speaker 1: you could love Obama, you can hate o bomb. The
Speaker 1: actual tactics that were employed, you know, they're developed by
Speaker 1: a professor at Harvard known as Marshal Gas And it
Speaker 1: was really in that first week. What they asked me
Speaker 1: to do is to go into the neighborhoods within which
Speaker 1: I was I was supposed to be organizing and meet
Speaker 1: with ten people in an authentic way. And that was
Speaker 1: my homework assignment. That was all. That was my whole job.
Speaker 1: That was my paycheck. Go meet with people in your
Speaker 1: community and just listen to their stories, get to know them,
Speaker 1: tell them why you're there. And then at the end
Speaker 1: of it all, maybe they'll say, how do I get
Speaker 1: involved this whole BOMBA thing? It seems like you're passionate
Speaker 1: about it. I'm passionate about it. What can I do
Speaker 1: to help? And more often than not they would. So,
Speaker 1: you know, you do enough of those over time, and
Speaker 1: you start to build out this small army of people
Speaker 1: who really want to do good work, and you can
Speaker 1: actually empower them in certain ways to phone bank or
Speaker 1: knock doors or whatever it might be in a given
Speaker 1: case based on the capabilities and interests, and over time
Speaker 1: you would build a whole network within communities that I'm
Speaker 1: happy to say it's still there in many situations, groups
Speaker 1: that still get together to do community change, um, even
Speaker 1: after the the situation of the election. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's actually doing this great work where you, uh, you
Speaker 1: meet with people authentically, you listen deeply, you get to
Speaker 1: know them an authentic way, and then you get to
Speaker 1: work with them in a way that both of you
Speaker 1: feel good about. So it was a wonderful experience. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was a great way for me personally to transfer
Speaker 1: to sort of transform my my grief in some small way.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I loved Columbus, actually I really did.
Speaker 1: I think of it often and and think of it fondly,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that I was in a lot of pain.
Speaker 1: Lot it's there. I want to change directions a little
Speaker 1: bit and go back to you. You touched on it
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier that one of the things that
Speaker 1: I think you're known for is sort of dealing with
Speaker 1: um Buddhism and people kind of where they are, and
Speaker 1: and touching on a lot of subjects that are not
Speaker 1: typically covered in your in your usual Buddhist text, things
Speaker 1: like tattoos and going out on the town and drinking
Speaker 1: and sex and um. In your book, there's a you
Speaker 1: start off the section on sex with a story about
Speaker 1: you given a teaching and there was a woman there
Speaker 1: who was fifty years old and can you pick up
Speaker 1: the story from there? Yeah? I mean I was funny.
Speaker 1: You know, when I go in these book toys, it's
Speaker 1: really like a city every other day, and I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sort of on all the time. And I was
Speaker 1: exhausted at that point. But I flew into Seattle. I'm
Speaker 1: at a meditation center and uh, yeah, this woman in
Speaker 1: her fifties. I said, what do you guys want to
Speaker 1: talk about? She raised her hand. She said, I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going through divorce. I started dating again. I thought,
Speaker 1: I think you know approximately, I know, I know where
Speaker 1: this is going. And she said, you know, when I'm
Speaker 1: with a guy and he orgasms, Uh, and I haven't.
Speaker 1: And but we're laying there and he asked me if
Speaker 1: I did. He always wants me to say that I did,
Speaker 1: even though I haven't. So I don't know if I
Speaker 1: should lie to him, you know, because honestly, like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to like sit there and see this ego.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like I didn't, I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like I didn't, I didn't know, or
Speaker 1: I guess I'm so like, you know, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't feel like it's a genuine communication for me to
Speaker 1: lie about anyway. What does Buddhism has to say about
Speaker 1: all this? And I mean, you know, my friends like
Speaker 1: to joke that this is the only time that they've
Speaker 1: ever seen me speechless, which is probably probably true, but
Speaker 1: it was, you know, I thought this is amazing in
Speaker 1: some sense. I mean, my mind was blown, and I
Speaker 1: probably wasn't extremely helpful to her, but it was amazing
Speaker 1: that you know, this is definitely the first time that
Speaker 1: that sort of discussion had taken place in the hollow
Speaker 1: walls of these meditation center. And why shouldn't we actually
Speaker 1: be able to talk about things like sex and dating
Speaker 1: and and work and how our boss isn't jerk, and
Speaker 1: how we're going through divorced at our spiritual center. Why
Speaker 1: shouldn't we be able to say, here's how I'm actually
Speaker 1: applying my meditation practice, my religious beliefs to any of
Speaker 1: these areas in my life. Um, why should I feel
Speaker 1: like I have to hide the fact that I go
Speaker 1: out to a bar on a Friday night with friends
Speaker 1: and to break my world into two. So you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've been this big advocate for just saying, okay,
Speaker 1: let's practice meditation, but let's practice meditation so that we're
Speaker 1: practicing for being present with the rest of our lives,
Speaker 1: so that we could be present when our loved one
Speaker 1: is in the hospital, when we're holding their hand, or
Speaker 1: we're falling in love all over again, or you know,
Speaker 1: we've got to have a difficult conversation with this guy
Speaker 1: that we're seeing because he didn't make us come. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, why shouldn't we be able to talk about
Speaker 1: these things? Um? And you know, there's definitely traditional Buddhist
Speaker 1: out there that are like, how dare you, sir? And
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. I mean, I think all I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do is is not I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: asset the Buddhist teaching, and I'm saying, can we really
Speaker 1: apply it to our modern world and what does that
Speaker 1: look like for you personally? Great a question I had
Speaker 1: for you, And kind of going down that line a
Speaker 1: little bit further, you are sort of are you know,
Speaker 1: in addition to being known for those things, you know,
Speaker 1: the also sort of the drinking Buddhist right, and you
Speaker 1: know both your book titles sort of reference the concept
Speaker 1: of drinking, and um, you know also the lineage Shambala
Speaker 1: that you're from. You know the founder of that, you know,
Speaker 1: Chogum Trunker rimpoche Um was was a known drinker. And
Speaker 1: I think a lot of accounts sort of say that
Speaker 1: that ended up what with being what killed him. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you how how that all fits together
Speaker 1: for you. It's and and it's clear in your books
Speaker 1: that it's a subject you give a lot of thought too,
Speaker 1: And so I'd just like to explore that a little
Speaker 1: bit more. And you know, one of the things that
Speaker 1: I think about is I look at all that is
Speaker 1: there's a lot of potential risk there. What do you
Speaker 1: think the reward is? That's a great question. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll be very very honest with you, and I'll share
Speaker 1: some stuff that I actually haven't in the books at all. All,
Speaker 1: but you know, so yes, to give a little bit
Speaker 1: of a history background children, Trump for Embiche was a
Speaker 1: brilliant Tibet and Buddhist teacher who drank heavily, and many
Speaker 1: people would say, you know that's you know, he drank
Speaker 1: himself to death in some ways. And I'm not going
Speaker 1: to excuse that or apologize for it in any way.
Speaker 1: And I'm also going to say that, you know, I
Speaker 1: believe that both things could happen, That you could be
Speaker 1: a brilliant individual and not take care of your body.
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen it happen in many, many shapes
Speaker 1: and forms. And to say that spiritual teachers are not
Speaker 1: you know, are going to all of a sudden transcend
Speaker 1: that boundaries. It's not always true. Um you know his background,
Speaker 1: and you know some other backgrounds of teachers that I
Speaker 1: love and respect. I struggle with I do, but I'm
Speaker 1: not going to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Speaker 1: Is actually reading something he wrote today about communication within
Speaker 1: romantic relationships, and I thought, you know, this is just
Speaker 1: so brilliant, and it's so sad to me that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, he he died so young, and it's I
Speaker 1: have a really difficult relationship with that with that push pull.
Speaker 1: Um but what I what I will say, you know,
Speaker 1: that's my personal relationship with him. But um, you know
Speaker 1: he is brilliant or he was brilliant, and um, if
Speaker 1: he was still alive, I don't know what my relationship
Speaker 1: would be like with him if from a personal personal
Speaker 1: point of view. UM My, I have I on one
Speaker 1: side of my family come from a long lineage of alcoholics.
Speaker 1: So I, um, my father was not an act of
Speaker 1: alcoholic during my lifetime. He's in he's recovered before I
Speaker 1: was born. But um, there were many waves of destruction
Speaker 1: that were left because he was an alcoholic. And I
Speaker 1: was very aware from a young age of what it
Speaker 1: meant to actually look at your relationship with alcohol, and
Speaker 1: that I was always I am always in danger of um,
Speaker 1: really alcohol alcoholic prone genes. So in addition to the
Speaker 1: whole Buddhist thing of like, you know, you know, what's
Speaker 1: what's the deal with lay practitioners versus monastics drinking? And
Speaker 1: you know, I could go on in a long tangent
Speaker 1: about uh, you know, the precepts and how they've been
Speaker 1: interpreted in numerous cultures over time. I mean that's in
Speaker 1: the book and you can read about it. But for
Speaker 1: me personally, ever since I started drinking in my late
Speaker 1: late teens, um, you know, it's always been a I
Speaker 1: have to look at that relationship. It's not something I
Speaker 1: can take casually. So for me personally, it's always been, UM,
Speaker 1: it's been something that I've had to analyze pretty closely
Speaker 1: to this time, you know. I mean now that I'm
Speaker 1: in my thirties and my relationship with alcohol is much
Speaker 1: different than it was when I was in me early twenties,
Speaker 1: and it's always is something that I look at and refine,
Speaker 1: and I mean, it's gets to that point of that
Speaker 1: I sort of emphasized repeatedly in both books, which is
Speaker 1: why do we do what we do? And and it
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have to just relate to alcohol, but could
Speaker 1: relate to sex, it could relate to online shopping. Online
Speaker 1: shopping is not a bad thing. If we really need
Speaker 1: a new printer, we should buy a new printer. But
Speaker 1: if we are spending all of our time and all
Speaker 1: of our money in an addictive way and we're not
Speaker 1: exactly sure why we're buying all these things, then that's
Speaker 1: actually harming ourselves and others. Um. So when it comes
Speaker 1: to alcohol. If you're going to go out on a uh,
Speaker 1: you know, on a Friday night, why are you drinking?
Speaker 1: You know, if someone hands you a shot of tequila
Speaker 1: and you're out with friends, are you drinking because you've
Speaker 1: had a hard week and you want to forget about
Speaker 1: it because that's going to take you down one road?
Speaker 1: Or are you drinking because your friends just kind of
Speaker 1: promotion and you're having a celebratory shot and then you
Speaker 1: know you'll probably call it early whatever, that will take
Speaker 1: you down a different road. So knowing why we do
Speaker 1: anything that we do is important. And I mean, like
Speaker 1: you said, alcohol is an extremely dangerous thing. I think
Speaker 1: and walk like a would. I mentioned that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like taking out a chainsaw. If you don't know
Speaker 1: what you're going to do with it, you're just gonna
Speaker 1: wave it around. You're gonna harm a lot of people,
Speaker 1: including yourself. But if you actually know what you're doing there,
Speaker 1: and you have a specific idea of what what you
Speaker 1: want to see happen, you're more likely to actually do
Speaker 1: something that is not harmful, ideally something that's some productive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's clear you've you've spent a spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time there, and I think one of the most interesting
Speaker 1: responses to, you know, talking about sort of the tragedy
Speaker 1: of you know, of Trunk Parnpiche was Pemachodren just sort
Speaker 1: of saying, I don't know, you know, she had this,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what to say about it.
Speaker 1: And that's that's as far as I can get. And
Speaker 1: I thought that was that was very interesting. UM. I
Speaker 1: want to there's another quote in your book that I'd
Speaker 1: like to to read and then ask you to give us,
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more elaboration on it says,
Speaker 1: we spend so much of our time thinking through exactly
Speaker 1: what we want to see happen in the future. When
Speaker 1: we get to that point in time and everything is
Speaker 1: not exactly as we imagined it, we end up disappointed.
Speaker 1: This is the nature of life. The more fixed expectations
Speaker 1: we care, the more we are likely to be let down.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's so we spent so much
Speaker 1: of our time just lost in the future, where either
Speaker 1: reliving a conversation that we you know, took place earlier
Speaker 1: in the day, or we're planning out the rest of
Speaker 1: our lives and what should happen. Um. I've been particularly
Speaker 1: when it comes to romantic relationships, which it seems to
Speaker 1: be like what people actually want to talk to me about. Um,
Speaker 1: it comes down to, you know, I have this fixed
Speaker 1: idea of who my partner is and what I think
Speaker 1: should be happening, and it's not happening. And the question
Speaker 1: becomes like how did you get there? Because you spend
Speaker 1: so much time with your partner or your friend or
Speaker 1: your your parents or your kids, and you say, all right,
Speaker 1: that's who this person is, and you solidify it, you say,
Speaker 1: you know they are this hair or color, and they
Speaker 1: do these sorts of things, and they like this sort
Speaker 1: of ice cream, and then we forget that, as you know,
Speaker 1: we continue to age and grow and evolve, that these
Speaker 1: other people are doing the exact same thing in ways
Speaker 1: that we often don't even realize because we see them
Speaker 1: every day. So um, we actually start to develop fixed expectations.
Speaker 1: You know, my partner always does the laundry and I
Speaker 1: always do the dishes, And then when your partner doesn't
Speaker 1: do the laundry, you get really disappointed your expectations are
Speaker 1: not being met. And I mean that's such a minor version,
Speaker 1: but um, you know you used to be such a
Speaker 1: romantic in our relationship and now you're not. You always
Speaker 1: used to do X, Y Z, and now you do
Speaker 1: you know ABC instead, And because that's such a fixed
Speaker 1: thing in your mind, you are met with disappointment. So
Speaker 1: when I'm when I'm trying to encourage, and when I
Speaker 1: think meditation naturally encourages when people practice, it is this
Speaker 1: fresh start point of view where we actually reside with
Speaker 1: what's going on as opposed to what we think ought
Speaker 1: to be going on. We actually start to just be
Speaker 1: with the people that were with and we can continue
Speaker 1: to be inquisitive about who they are, are inquisitive about
Speaker 1: our job situation, are a very Haitian or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: We're not necessarily saying here's how it's got to be.
Speaker 1: Otherwise I'm not going to be happy. The more you
Speaker 1: can relax with their situation as it is, the more
Speaker 1: we can actually enjoy it. So that's why I mean
Speaker 1: when I say that these fixed expectations start to drag
Speaker 1: us down. It's that sense of, you know, I've built
Speaker 1: out this this house that I think I need to
Speaker 1: live in, and if the house looks different than I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to look, I'm miserable whereas if
Speaker 1: we just sort of gradually continue to build and sort
Speaker 1: of see it for what it is and you know,
Speaker 1: do what feels natural, then we're going to enjoy where
Speaker 1: we where we are. So that's I mean, that's maybe
Speaker 1: a flawed analogy, but you know, I think that's the
Speaker 1: overarching beauty of the meditation practice, that it allows us
Speaker 1: to be with what is as opposed to what we
Speaker 1: think ought to what ought to happen, or what we
Speaker 1: quote unquote need to happen. Yeah, I think that's I
Speaker 1: really like that fresh would you call it fresh view? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fresh start point of fresh start point of view
Speaker 1: in a relationship. I think that's really point advice. And
Speaker 1: the other thing I think the real danger of sort
Speaker 1: of expectations in the future is this idea that this
Speaker 1: thing will make me happy and then, like you say,
Speaker 1: we get there and we're not happy, and instead of
Speaker 1: being able to question that and go, well, maybe it's
Speaker 1: the way I'm thinking it tends to be, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I thought that the Honda accord would make me happy,
Speaker 1: but clearly it's probably a lexis that's going to be
Speaker 1: needed because I don't feel happy and and you know,
Speaker 1: I've certainly been guilty of that in my life, of
Speaker 1: of getting towards something, not feeling any better and just thinking, well, okay,
Speaker 1: just keep going to the to the next thing. Um.
Speaker 1: So we're we're getting close to the time here. What
Speaker 1: I'd like to do is um, read you another quote
Speaker 1: from your book that I think really hits on the
Speaker 1: topic of feeding our good Wolf, and then allow you
Speaker 1: to give any kind of closing comments after that. So,
Speaker 1: uh you say, in any moment, we have a choice.
Speaker 1: We can give into society's exhortations to be despondent because
Speaker 1: we will never be good enough to see succeed in
Speaker 1: love worker family, or we can listen to our own
Speaker 1: basic goodness, allowing that intuitive voice to guide us towards
Speaker 1: awaken into our full potential. We can hear that voice
Speaker 1: urging is to realize that we can accept ourselves exactly
Speaker 1: as we are, that we are already complete. And I
Speaker 1: think that's a pretty good uh rehashing of feeding your
Speaker 1: good Wolf. Yeah. As I said at the beginning of
Speaker 1: this this time together, I I do feel like this
Speaker 1: good wolf analogy really encompass this we'ben trying to talk
Speaker 1: about for quite some time, because we always have the
Speaker 1: ability to relax with what is the ability to actually
Speaker 1: connect with our basic goodness and act from that point
Speaker 1: of view. It's always there. The wolf is always there,
Speaker 1: and it's just that we're so habituated to actually um
Speaker 1: feeding our negative patterns that we don't even see that
Speaker 1: they're negative anymore. So, UM, you know, for for people listening,
Speaker 1: I do encourage you to try meditation and to try
Speaker 1: to become familiar with your mind so that you can
Speaker 1: connect more fully with this this wolf of kindness, this
Speaker 1: wolf of goodness that we that we always have with us. Excellent,
Speaker 1: And we will have links out on our show notes
Speaker 1: to uh your site, and I know you have some
Speaker 1: basic teachings out there that people can view kind of
Speaker 1: right away in a YouTube channel, so will definitely link
Speaker 1: out to those things. UM. Is there anything you feel
Speaker 1: like you want to say that we we haven't covered. No,
Speaker 1: that's great. I mean I'm always happy to chat with
Speaker 1: people after these sorts of things. And um, as you know,
Speaker 1: through both of my books, I may open the intro
Speaker 1: with saying I'm I'm sort of a mess but also okay,
Speaker 1: but I closed the intro with you know, when you're
Speaker 1: done with this thing reach out because I I love
Speaker 1: the dialogue aspect. As I mentioned before, I'm much more
Speaker 1: of a dialogue guy than a teacher guy, so I'm
Speaker 1: always happy to chat with people. Excellent. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for joining us, and I enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed your books, and uh, you know, it's always
Speaker 1: great to have um people presenting different views of spirituality
Speaker 1: and life and making it more accessible to people. So
Speaker 1: thanks for all that you're doing there. Okay, sounds good. Thanks,
Speaker 1: all right, take care of a good evening. Alright bye.
Speaker 1: You can find out more about Lodro and the one
Speaker 1: you Feed podcast and our show notes at one you
Speaker 1: Feed dot net slash lodro