Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: Can you hear me? If I call you Drew by mistake,
Speaker 1: you'll cut that out if you call me Drew by mistake.
Speaker 1: Robert Osborne has been hosting Turner Classic Movies for the
Speaker 1: past eighteen years. Drew Barrymore is his co pilot. This year,
Speaker 1: I had joined him for three years and I'm still
Speaker 1: waiting to be asked back. At Turner Classic Movies, Bob
Speaker 1: Osborne plays the role of ambassador to a bygone era
Speaker 1: that he's helped make more popular now than ever. The
Speaker 1: journey he took to get there could have made a
Speaker 1: classic movie itself. Small town kid falls in love with
Speaker 1: the movies, and with nothing but instincts and charm, finds
Speaker 1: himself thrust into an incredible adventure and osborne story. The
Speaker 1: players are legendary, the backdrop is epic, and the plot
Speaker 1: twists will make you say that could only happen in
Speaker 1: the movies and Robert Osborne's odyssey. The detours are numerous,
Speaker 1: but hardly incidental. You'll be glad he leaves nothing on
Speaker 1: the editing room floor. I grew up in a small
Speaker 1: town where I went to the movies a lot and
Speaker 1: fell in love with all these people also fell in
Speaker 1: love with the movie business. So all I saw were
Speaker 1: actors on the screen. So I thought, well, that's what
Speaker 1: I have to be if I want to be a
Speaker 1: part of the movie business. Nobody then was talking about
Speaker 1: film editors. There were no film schools talking about directing,
Speaker 1: you know, any of that kind of stuff. I decidedn't
Speaker 1: want to be an actor, and so I was doing
Speaker 1: Did your parents say about that that was fine as
Speaker 1: long as I got an education, Yeah, they were. They were.
Speaker 1: They were ti people that said, you know, be practical,
Speaker 1: get an education and something you can make a living at.
Speaker 1: But do what you want to do, at least try
Speaker 1: it and then if it doesn't work out and move
Speaker 1: to something else. So I started doing a little theater
Speaker 1: work in Seattle, and one of the plays I did
Speaker 1: was a play called Knight mus Fall with Jane Darwell.
Speaker 1: Jane Darwell and is the lady you would know this
Speaker 1: who played Henry Fond his mother in the Grapes of
Speaker 1: and won the Oscar for it. And she's the one
Speaker 1: that said, you know, when you get finished with this,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do when you finish your She
Speaker 1: came up to Washington to a regional theater. Yes, and
Speaker 1: so I said, well, I'm going to go to New
Speaker 1: York and she said, no, you have more of a California. Look,
Speaker 1: you should come to California. And she said you can
Speaker 1: stay at my house. She had a staff and all
Speaker 1: of that kind of stuff. They lived down in the valley,
Speaker 1: and she said, you can at least get your feet
Speaker 1: on the ground there. I'll introduce you to an agent.
Speaker 1: She said, I think you do very well. So I did.
Speaker 1: Dave was Jane Darwell and her family at her house
Speaker 1: on Ethel Avenue in the San Fernando Valley. Yes, introduced
Speaker 1: me to an agent with m c A. In those days,
Speaker 1: if you could really walk and talk at the same time,
Speaker 1: you could get a contract of the studio. That first one.
Speaker 1: He took me to his Fox and they said, we
Speaker 1: want you to be under contract. So I was there
Speaker 1: for like six months. And during that period of time,
Speaker 1: I did a television show which was a western. That
Speaker 1: of all, I was doing a little theater group. This
Speaker 1: is a convoluted story, but I'm going to get to
Speaker 1: where I'm going. And it was a theater group run
Speaker 1: by an actor named Frank this letter. So I was
Speaker 1: doing some impros in the class and one of his
Speaker 1: friends came to it and I was Paul Henrid, you
Speaker 1: know with the two cigarettes with names. So Paul Henriid
Speaker 1: was saying, well, I'm directing a western, got a part
Speaker 1: coming up. I think you'd be right for I want
Speaker 1: you to come over and read for it next week. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I was kind of new to all of this,
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, I went to California and
Speaker 1: I got a contract right away and got a part
Speaker 1: in a TV thing right away. I thought this is
Speaker 1: kind of easy. So anyway, I did the TV show
Speaker 1: and I had the lead in it for this one episode.
Speaker 1: The stage that we shot an outdoor sequence for this
Speaker 1: western on was where Paul Henry made the Spanish main,
Speaker 1: which meant there was also the sound stage where Fred
Speaker 1: and g injured at all their big dance numbers. So
Speaker 1: that was kind of thrilling to me. Didn't mean anything
Speaker 1: to anybody else in the day, Fred who So anyway,
Speaker 1: I went back the next day to thank the casting
Speaker 1: man and the people that had put me in this thing.
Speaker 1: For the Californians. There was this wonderful man Milt Lewis,
Speaker 1: who had used to be a talent scout of Paramount Studios.
Speaker 1: He was in the office and I thanked him, and
Speaker 1: he said, well, do you have an appointment for the
Speaker 1: Lucy Ball auditions? And I said, no, I don't know
Speaker 1: about any Lucier Ball auditions. And he said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's putting a contract group together and so she's going
Speaker 1: to have these auditions and I think there next week,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. But let me call up to
Speaker 1: her office and find out. Instead of a secretary answering
Speaker 1: Lucy answer and he said, I got this guy down here,
Speaker 1: and I thought he might be a good bet for
Speaker 1: your contract people. So she obviously said, well I'm not
Speaker 1: doing anything, send him up right now. So I went
Speaker 1: up to this office. There she was. Now I have
Speaker 1: to tell you I was impressed by her, but I
Speaker 1: didn't see a lot of I Love Lucy because when
Speaker 1: that was really hitting its peak, I was in college
Speaker 1: and I was studying. I had a study hall, I
Speaker 1: wasn't didn't watch TV, and I loved the movies. If
Speaker 1: it had been a Lana Turner had met or somebody,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to talk. But it was
Speaker 1: Lucia Ball, and she was impressed that I'm into college
Speaker 1: because she hadn't any finished high school. This I got
Speaker 1: to know about her later. But also she was impressed
Speaker 1: by the fact I was living at Jane Darwell's house
Speaker 1: because I had asked her in our conversation who some
Speaker 1: of her favorite leading men were, and she said, leading
Speaker 1: me in didn't mean that much to me. I like
Speaker 1: working with talented people, but it was the character actors
Speaker 1: I love, she said. I loved like Edward Evert Horton,
Speaker 1: and I loved Harpo Marx, and I love Donald meek Well.
Speaker 1: I knew all those people were. And she was impressed
Speaker 1: by that because at that time, nobody knew who those
Speaker 1: people were. There was no nostalgia, nobody cared. So it's
Speaker 1: interesting how at that point in your life, the passion
Speaker 1: you had, curiosity you had that you've turned into a career.
Speaker 1: The roots of it were you were just impressing a
Speaker 1: smaller circle of people with that knowledge. When you're there
Speaker 1: and Lucia Ball is going God, I loved Jane Darnwerd. Yes.
Speaker 1: So she had said, is there any film on you?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I just did this thing with
Speaker 1: Paul Henry, and I've also done a test with Diane Baker,
Speaker 1: and so she called over to Fox. Can I see
Speaker 1: the Diane Baker test? Lucille Ball, how soon can you
Speaker 1: send it over? Lucy was somebody that the minute she
Speaker 1: wanted something, she did it. She hung up the phone.
Speaker 1: She said, they're going to send it over. It'll be
Speaker 1: here in about half an hour. So we kept talking.
Speaker 1: The test was made for Diane, not for me, so
Speaker 1: there was a lot of the back of me. So
Speaker 1: when it was over, Lucy didn't really say anything. She's
Speaker 1: just thanked me for coming by, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: she wasn't that impressed, but at least I got to
Speaker 1: spend some time with Lucille Ball. Like a week later,
Speaker 1: a message comes on my voice, Uh, you're an absolutely
Speaker 1: answering service. Called Lucille Ball's office right away. Here's the number.
Speaker 1: Hello Ray nine calling answer phone. Yes, I called the
Speaker 1: number and the second he said, well, Lucille Ball wants
Speaker 1: you to come to dinner on Friday night if you're
Speaker 1: available and meet DESI. I thought, well that's interesting. So
Speaker 1: I go to Lucy's house at Friday night. There's no Desi,
Speaker 1: but there's Lucy there's Janet Gayner, There's Joseph Cotton, there's
Speaker 1: Kay Thompson, Chuck Walters, Charles Walters, the director Roger Eden's,
Speaker 1: and a couple of other people, and her sister Cleo
Speaker 1: who was actually her cousin but raised as her sister,
Speaker 1: and me after the dinner, and they were all chatting
Speaker 1: and laughing, and all of the drinking drinking, not Lucy.
Speaker 1: Lucy wasn't no drinker at that point. She she learned
Speaker 1: how to drink a little bit later on, but not
Speaker 1: at that point. So we went in the living room
Speaker 1: and where on Roxbury, right next door to Jack Benny exactly,
Speaker 1: and just down the street from Ira Gershwin and around
Speaker 1: the corner front. So anyway, after dinner we went in
Speaker 1: the living room. She pushes the button and the painting
Speaker 1: goes up, puts another button, the screen comes down, and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, did you ever believe that you would ever
Speaker 1: be And then I thought, no, wait a minute, I
Speaker 1: always knew I was going to be here. I remember
Speaker 1: that thought. I first started to say automatically, did you
Speaker 1: ever think God and that was the beginning for you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I thought, no, I always knew I was going
Speaker 1: to be with people like this, and I relaxed. Then
Speaker 1: I really relaxed as I thought, no, this is where
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be. Yeah, and when you love this
Speaker 1: is where I'm supposed to be. Where. What do you
Speaker 1: remember Funny Face, which was which was about three years old?
Speaker 1: That what? No, But what was great about it was
Speaker 1: there's a part in Funny Face when Kate Thompson and
Speaker 1: Andrew Hepburn get up and do a number called on
Speaker 1: how to Be Lovely Together. Kay Thompson got up by
Speaker 1: the screen and did the number. So and it was,
Speaker 1: you know, fun watch the movie. The movie was over,
Speaker 1: everybody starts to go, so I think, well, I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to go to I still don't know quite why I'm here,
Speaker 1: And it certainly wasn't Lucy was saying, you know, stay
Speaker 1: around a little boy or anything like that. Wasn't that.
Speaker 1: So we got to the front door. Thank you Lucy
Speaker 1: for the evening. She said, well, have you signed the
Speaker 1: papers yet? And I said what papers? I want you
Speaker 1: another contract? And I said, well, nobody, we're doing business,
Speaker 1: you idiot. Nobody's ever mentioned anything about a contract or anything.
Speaker 1: And she said give them an address tomorrow and signed
Speaker 1: the papers. Anyone. So I was under contract then to Desilu,
Speaker 1: and so that was for two years. That The great
Speaker 1: thing about it was is that someone television. It didn't
Speaker 1: pay us much money at all, but it was like
Speaker 1: a master class for me because there were about twelve
Speaker 1: of us under contract, but there were three of us
Speaker 1: who were really interested in the business, and she kind
Speaker 1: of recognized that right away and took us under her wing.
Speaker 1: That's when I first met Bettie Davis. Bettie Davis came
Speaker 1: to l A in a play called The World of
Speaker 1: Carl Sandberg. So she took us to the play and
Speaker 1: then took us backstage afterwards to meet Betty Davis and
Speaker 1: Vivian Lee. Came a duel of Angels, and so she
Speaker 1: went backstage and set a little vivianly. It took us
Speaker 1: with her anytime there was somebody like that, Noel Coward
Speaker 1: or Marlene Dietrich, she would take us there pick up
Speaker 1: the tabs because again she knew she wasn't paying enough
Speaker 1: money to keep for us to be able to do that.
Speaker 1: So we got this terrific education. And she also now
Speaker 1: DESI at this point was womanizing. He wasn't around much,
Speaker 1: so she would get movies that we wanted to see
Speaker 1: or hadn't seen because they weren't that accessible in those days,
Speaker 1: and run them at her house. Or she would show
Speaker 1: us I Love Lucy's show. She'd done bad ones and
Speaker 1: show us why they didn't work, then show us a
Speaker 1: good one and why it did work. She also the
Speaker 1: first day any of us were in a contract there
Speaker 1: and we first met, she arrived. She'd just gone to
Speaker 1: a bank which was right around the corner from Desilu,
Speaker 1: and she got twelve savings accounts that she opened, put
Speaker 1: like fifty dollars in, and she gave us in each
Speaker 1: of our names, gave us the books, and she said,
Speaker 1: every week you have to put something away. And we were,
Speaker 1: as I say, making very little money, and say, Lucy,
Speaker 1: you know we don't barely enough to to live on.
Speaker 1: She said, it can be only five dollars, but every
Speaker 1: week put something away. You won't miss it. It'll add up.
Speaker 1: Very maternal, and she said, no matter what the thing
Speaker 1: you must do is have enough money that you don't
Speaker 1: have to make decisions based on money. For a kid
Speaker 1: from Colfax, Washington, this was just invaluable. I've been to college,
Speaker 1: but I never had these kind of life lessons. In
Speaker 1: the course of it, she meant, my folks, and she
Speaker 1: got to know me. She said to me early on,
Speaker 1: you can do this as an actor, but she said,
Speaker 1: and I think you could do well, but it's not
Speaker 1: gonna make you happy. This is not the right line
Speaker 1: of work for you. And she said, you love old films,
Speaker 1: you love history, you love everything about the business. And
Speaker 1: you're a journalist and major in college. We have enough actors.
Speaker 1: You should write about movies. And the first thing you
Speaker 1: should do is write a book. Who said this to you, Lucy?
Speaker 1: She said, it doesn't even have to be a good book.
Speaker 1: But find a subject about the movies that nobody's done
Speaker 1: and write a book about it. And I said why,
Speaker 1: She said, if you write a book, it shows you
Speaker 1: have to discipline to sit down and do that. Yes,
Speaker 1: I did. What book? It was a book about the Oscars?
Speaker 1: Is this the book right here? Oh my god? Yeah, academy.
Speaker 1: I want our listeners to know that stunned expression. I
Speaker 1: show a copy of the book that he and yes,
Speaker 1: there he was. No wonder you were getting in an
Speaker 1: animal of these parties back then, that kind of picture
Speaker 1: in this book. Let me just mention to our listeners.
Speaker 1: There's a picture in this book. It's on page seven,
Speaker 1: by the way of Academy Awards Illustrated written by Robert Osbourne,
Speaker 1: with the forward by Betty Davis, Hollywood and the Oscars
Speaker 1: thirty seven years of film History and didn't it is
Speaker 1: a picture of Robert Osbourne circa six or so. Who
Speaker 1: is it you look like? Here? Well? I always got
Speaker 1: tagged that I looked like Robert Wagner. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 1: somebody else you looked like will come to me. So
Speaker 1: now you're a writer. So now it's an early sixties.
Speaker 1: Still you're a writer. And so I would do anything
Speaker 1: I could to pay my rent. The Desilue days were over,
Speaker 1: Lucy had gone to New York to do Wildcat on stage.
Speaker 1: I was also realizing that I've done all that I
Speaker 1: can wanted to do. I did a you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of years of summerstock touring in a play with
Speaker 1: Robert Cummings. Do you think you clearly make a choice
Speaker 1: at this point in your life where the choice made
Speaker 1: for you? Well, the choice was kind of made for
Speaker 1: me because I was not getting parts like night mus
Speaker 1: Fall that I love doing. I did a soap opera
Speaker 1: for a couple of years called The Young Married's. I
Speaker 1: was always in a suit with the tie and with
Speaker 1: a briefcase, helping the plot along. But it wasn't interesting,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't interesting. Did a lot of commercials. I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, if this is the best I can do
Speaker 1: at this point, I gotta get out of this altogether,
Speaker 1: because I would look at a part and at George
Speaker 1: Bopard could do this so much better than I can,
Speaker 1: or Tony Perkins would be great in this, better than
Speaker 1: I would be. Yeah, and it was on stage struck.
Speaker 1: So then the next phase came with Olivi to Havelin.
Speaker 1: I did an interview with her for an in flight magazine.
Speaker 1: They were not paying me anything, but it was a
Speaker 1: way to get free tickets to screening. It seems to
Speaker 1: be the rule in your life. I wasn't getting paid enough,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna moonlight as go ahead. I got a
Speaker 1: set so I could get free tickets to see movies.
Speaker 1: So I wrote reviews for this magazine and they would
Speaker 1: ask me occasionally to write a interview or something, so
Speaker 1: LEVI to have one was doing a movie called Airport
Speaker 1: seventy seven. I did an interview with her. We got
Speaker 1: along very well. At the interview. I had a lot
Speaker 1: of champagne courtesy of Universal Pictures. When it was over,
Speaker 1: I felt very comfortable with her, and she said we
Speaker 1: must stay in touch. So she sent me a note.
Speaker 1: She said, I'm gonna be coming to Los Angeles in March.
Speaker 1: At that time, I will take you out for champagne. Okay,
Speaker 1: time goes by. Betty Davis was being honored by the
Speaker 1: a f I. I'd only met her briefly when she
Speaker 1: did the forward from my book, so I didn't really
Speaker 1: know her. But I also knew the industry that I
Speaker 1: loved was coming to an end. Jimmy Cagney would be there,
Speaker 1: Fredis Stare would be there, Barish Nakoff. I mean, all
Speaker 1: these different people, the old and the new. So I thought,
Speaker 1: I gotta go to that. But I really can't afford
Speaker 1: to go to that. So John Springer's pr company was
Speaker 1: handling it. I knew a guy, an actor named Ray
Speaker 1: Strickland who now worked for John Springer. So I called
Speaker 1: him and I said, look, I gotta go to this thing.
Speaker 1: Is there any way you could sneak me in? And
Speaker 1: he said, well, I can't get you a place at
Speaker 1: the dinner, but go out and rent a tuxedo and
Speaker 1: I will sneak you in through the kitchen. Great, that's
Speaker 1: all I want. One day I went out and I
Speaker 1: rented a tuxedo, and when I got back there was
Speaker 1: a phone message from Oliver to Havelin. So I thought, ah,
Speaker 1: she's come to go to the Betty Davis thing. She's
Speaker 1: calling to ask when we could add bottle champagne or something.
Speaker 1: So I called her back and she's the first thing
Speaker 1: she said was I have a proposition for you, and
Speaker 1: it's not an indecent one. There's an event for Betty
Speaker 1: Davis on Tuesday night. Would you escort me to it?
Speaker 1: So I was so stunned because here I just gone
Speaker 1: out to rent a tuxedo to sneak into the kitchen.
Speaker 1: She took my non response for hesitation doubts, and so
Speaker 1: she said, well, we'll be sitting with Betty at the
Speaker 1: head table, and I think you'll have a good time.
Speaker 1: So I thought, oh my god. So I called Tom
Speaker 1: Jones quickly and said, look, Olivia has asked me to
Speaker 1: this thing. I've got to get a car. I can't
Speaker 1: take her my Volkswagen. Is there any way Disney through Disney,
Speaker 1: you can get me a car, and he said absolutely,
Speaker 1: so I went in style. We went to this event
Speaker 1: they introduced Betty Davis. She walks in there playing the
Speaker 1: theme from Now Voyager and she's waving to everybody. She
Speaker 1: comes up on the stage and write at the first
Speaker 1: people she runs into, there's Paul Henry and his wife.
Speaker 1: So of course she goes over and says alone. The
Speaker 1: next one to her is Joseph Manquitz and his wife.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, oh my god. Now I'm sitting just
Speaker 1: two steps to her. Left. Next to her is Olivia
Speaker 1: and then me. She knows everybody else on the diet.
Speaker 1: She's not somebody that's gonna kiss this strange person. What
Speaker 1: do I do? So she comes and there's Bob Wagner
Speaker 1: and Natalie, so she kisses all of that and she
Speaker 1: and she's about ready to sit, but Olivia, in a
Speaker 1: great flurry of theatricality, goes Betty and throws her arms out,
Speaker 1: so it pulls Betty to this side of the table.
Speaker 1: So I think, what the hell can I do? All
Speaker 1: I can think I have to do is I quickly
Speaker 1: took her hand and kissed her hands when they cut
Speaker 1: it and edited it. They show her entering, and they
Speaker 1: show her up on the stage greeted by Olivia and
Speaker 1: then this gallant man kissing her hand. And for years after,
Speaker 1: whenever they would do recaps at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: f I trade, the always showed Betty Davis and this
Speaker 1: guy the beer can amongst the cut crystal in his
Speaker 1: own mind. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Speaker 1: here's the thing more in a minute. This is Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin and I'm talking with Robert Osborne, host of Turner
Speaker 1: Classic Movies. We pick up our story after Osborne has
Speaker 1: been discovered if you will at a tribute to Betty Davis,
Speaker 1: Olivia to havelland is still in town and has been
Speaker 1: asked to appear on the Dinah Shore Show to Haviland.
Speaker 1: Is excited, yet hesitant. Turns out Osborne had hit it
Speaker 1: off with Dinah Shore's producer Fred Tatters Shore, as he
Speaker 1: always seemed to be back then, Robert Osborne is once
Speaker 1: again in the right place at the right time. So
Speaker 1: I'm thinking this is where my all about the aspect
Speaker 1: comes in. Is I'm thinking, yes, my invac was coming
Speaker 1: through Fred Tad a short said, you're a really interesting guy.
Speaker 1: I'd love to have you come on the show sometime
Speaker 1: if we get ever find a police to fit you in.
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking Olivia's won an Oscar. I wrote a
Speaker 1: book about the Oscars, so I called I didn't see
Speaker 1: anything that. I called Ray Strickland and I said, who
Speaker 1: else do you have in your office has won Oscars?
Speaker 1: And he said, well, we have Shelly Winners, we have
Speaker 1: Shirley Jones, we have a Maori sat And I explained
Speaker 1: this to him. I said, Fred tad as Shore is
Speaker 1: looking for a subject that Olivia could be on, and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to throw out that, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: an Oscar show. And you could also mention me, because
Speaker 1: he did mention if he ever found a place I
Speaker 1: could fit in. So it was done and we did
Speaker 1: the show. I'm with some very heavy hitters, all these ladies,
Speaker 1: and they had a lot to talk about, so I
Speaker 1: didn't say much, but I had one great moment. Shelly
Speaker 1: Winners was sitting next to me and I said, and Dinah,
Speaker 1: being a consummate hostess, start talking about in my book
Speaker 1: and I said, you know the reason I wrote that book.
Speaker 1: One reason, It's because of Shelley Winters and Shelly really,
Speaker 1: I said yes, because I've seen you on so many
Speaker 1: talk shows talking about your Oscar nomination for the movie
Speaker 1: A Double Life with Ronald Coleman was her big breakthrough part.
Speaker 1: I said, you always talk about the year nomination and
Speaker 1: I said, it's very easy to find out who won Oscars,
Speaker 1: but there's no list anywhere of people who were nominated.
Speaker 1: And when I started doing the research, I found out
Speaker 1: you weren't nominated for that movie. And she said what well,
Speaker 1: and she she just had a fit. I said no,
Speaker 1: and I listed the ones who were nominated. It made
Speaker 1: a really wonderful television moment. Dina liked that and fed
Speaker 1: DAT like that. So they said, why don't you come
Speaker 1: back and do some entertainment things for us? And so
Speaker 1: I started doing that. Out of that, an old friend
Speaker 1: of mine who worked for the Hollywood Reporter, where I've
Speaker 1: been trying to get in as a writer the beginning
Speaker 1: of the Hollywood Yeah, called and she said, I always
Speaker 1: wonder what happened to you, And you've written a book.
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, it's not a new book. It's been
Speaker 1: out a couple of years. And she said, well, send
Speaker 1: it and we'll review it. I said, it's been reviewed
Speaker 1: by the Hollywood Reporter. Well, I'd like to see it anyway.
Speaker 1: Margie Wooster at name was probably still is. So I
Speaker 1: sent her a copy of the book and she said, well,
Speaker 1: it's a terrific book, and would you ever like to
Speaker 1: write for the Hollywood Reporter. I said, I've been trying
Speaker 1: to do that, Margie for you know ten years now.
Speaker 1: Why one of your gifts is handling obviously these powerful
Speaker 1: personalities and doing it very elegantly on TV. Why didn't
Speaker 1: you want to stay with TV? Why do you want
Speaker 1: to go right for the paper? Well, the TV was
Speaker 1: just one shot, and the Hollywood Reporter at that point
Speaker 1: was very important. That's the point when the reporter and
Speaker 1: I like a variety. Yeah, that's a steady it's a
Speaker 1: steady job. It's also the great thing, a big deal.
Speaker 1: There were two trade papers. That's where you got. Everybody
Speaker 1: got there their entertainment. There was no cable. And it
Speaker 1: was also never it never had to do like everything
Speaker 1: else in Hollywood, whether or not what you were doing
Speaker 1: was successful or not. The Hollywood Reporter was always in.
Speaker 1: You always got great tables anywhere, you always got great
Speaker 1: seats at screenings. You always got treated. Well, yeah, I said,
Speaker 1: I'd love to. So you said, well, she set me
Speaker 1: up with that point with the lady who ran the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter, teach you Wokers and Miles. So this is
Speaker 1: like nineteen seventies seven. You go to work for the reporters.
Speaker 1: So no, no, I get the interview with teaching Wokerson Miles.
Speaker 1: It was obviously a courtesy call, and I could tell
Speaker 1: I hadn't made no impression at all. So I called
Speaker 1: Marchie and I thanked her, but I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I teach you didn't even see me. She said, well,
Speaker 1: I'll figure some other way. Then she called me and
Speaker 1: she said, look, what are you doing and she gave
Speaker 1: me some dates and I said, well, I'm working in
Speaker 1: the box office of the Greek Theater and she said, well,
Speaker 1: can you get off for this two week period? Thank Grant,
Speaker 1: who writes the main column Rambling Reporter, is staying in
Speaker 1: vacation and they've asked me to write the column for him.
Speaker 1: And she said, I'll tell them I will, and then
Speaker 1: at the last minute I'll tell him I can't for
Speaker 1: some reason. I'll recommend you do it. They'll have to
Speaker 1: get somebody to do it. This is your life story
Speaker 1: through the kitchen, and then Olivia calls you don't have
Speaker 1: to go through the kitchen. Well, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: struggle in there beforehand, but once it started, once it
Speaker 1: started going, it really started. But this is a great
Speaker 1: opportunity for you. Yeah. So I got called in. I
Speaker 1: had stories ready. I've been doing it for about three days.
Speaker 1: I'm a call from teaching WI Chris and Miles, and
Speaker 1: she said, do you work for us? And I said no,
Speaker 1: I don't, but I'm just coming in to help out.
Speaker 1: She said, would you like to work for us? And
Speaker 1: I said yes I would. She said, well, you've got
Speaker 1: a job. I said, well, I've got another job right now.
Speaker 1: I don't think I told her it was a Greek
Speaker 1: theater box office. She said, well, when you finish that,
Speaker 1: come here. What date would that be? So I gave
Speaker 1: her a date. She said, on that day you show
Speaker 1: up for work. So on that date I showed up
Speaker 1: for work. The editors said, well, I don't have any
Speaker 1: room for you in here, so just kind of wander
Speaker 1: around and get to know the paper. When she comes back,
Speaker 1: we'll ask her what she plans for you. To do.
Speaker 1: Just before she came back Marjorie, who wrote a column
Speaker 1: called on Location where you go visit film sets for
Speaker 1: the paper. She got in a fight at the paper
Speaker 1: and she quit. And when she was going out the door,
Speaker 1: they said, what are we gonna do your columns? Do
Speaker 1: you have to have a column for tomorrow? She said,
Speaker 1: have Osborne do it. He's not doing any anything around.
Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how people who don't know these
Speaker 1: kinds of businesses, like the newspaper business, how it's really true?
Speaker 1: How do you become the drama critic? You're writing the
Speaker 1: gardening column and the drama critic drops dead at his typewriter,
Speaker 1: and like Osborne, get over here, and and so that's
Speaker 1: exactly what's right here. So all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: wasn't writing for the in the editorial department. I had
Speaker 1: a column. How do you feel about that? I loved it,
Speaker 1: except I don't think I was very good at it,
Speaker 1: because I take you what it really is supposed to
Speaker 1: be a gossip column, or at least have inside dirt.
Speaker 1: And I never felt comfortable intruding upon people to want
Speaker 1: to keep a secret, because I think secrets are important
Speaker 1: to have you're very discreet. I've been around you many
Speaker 1: many hours, and you're never seen. So there's a story
Speaker 1: that so and so you never get into that, and
Speaker 1: so that was problematic for you and writing that com
Speaker 1: it's it's so. I'd worked for during one period during
Speaker 1: for a PR firm, and for a while rock Hudson
Speaker 1: was a client of ours, so I knew him well,
Speaker 1: and so I knew when he got AIDS that he
Speaker 1: had AIDS, but I would not write about that. At
Speaker 1: that time. I was also doing the evening news because
Speaker 1: all TV stations at one point had entertainment reporters. The
Speaker 1: lady who a wonderful lady, Marsha Brandwin, who was the
Speaker 1: kind of news head there, and I got in a
Speaker 1: big argument that she knew I knew about rock Hudson,
Speaker 1: and she said you have to go on the air
Speaker 1: with that, and I said, no, he doesn't want that. Know,
Speaker 1: this is a very sick man and he's an actor.
Speaker 1: I said, if it was the president that affects all
Speaker 1: of us in this country, he's an actor. So I
Speaker 1: wasn't that good at that. I mean, I think I
Speaker 1: wrote a lively column and an interesting one. How long
Speaker 1: did you write the column for Oh Boy forbet years,
Speaker 1: so you're doing the Reporter. It's twenty years of the Reporter.
Speaker 1: And then what okay? Then the CBS Morning program in
Speaker 1: New York asked me if I do entertainment reports at
Speaker 1: night in Los Angeles that could be put on the
Speaker 1: air on a new CBS morning program and the next day.
Speaker 1: I'd always wanted to live in New York, so I said,
Speaker 1: what if I did them live in New York. The
Speaker 1: minute I got to New York, I thought, I can't
Speaker 1: ever go back. What about New York appeal to you?
Speaker 1: More serious? To you know? Every time I was in
Speaker 1: New York, I felt alive. I saw people reading books,
Speaker 1: and I saw there was so much activity going on
Speaker 1: already leave. Yes, And it was also cars and you
Speaker 1: only you had to drive to gettywhere on the New
Speaker 1: York you're on the street, you run into somebody and
Speaker 1: you go have a drink with them. I mean, I
Speaker 1: loved all that. That's when Dorothy Lamore came to town
Speaker 1: and she said, look, they're honoring Jimmy Stewart. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come back for two days. We were always going to
Speaker 1: have dinner in l A. We never did. Why don't
Speaker 1: you take me to the Jimmy Stewart Thing. I have
Speaker 1: the tickets and everything, and then we'll finally have that
Speaker 1: dinner the next night. So I said, where would you
Speaker 1: like to have the dinner and she said, well at
Speaker 1: one when I was a star. That's about the only
Speaker 1: place that's still in New York that was around when
Speaker 1: when I used to come to New York. So I
Speaker 1: took out the Jimmy Stewart thing and that night she said, look,
Speaker 1: I got a problem. I'm doing some promotional work for AMC,
Speaker 1: and the people at AMC want to take me to dinner.
Speaker 1: And the only night I can do with us to
Speaker 1: night we were going to go to one. Would you
Speaker 1: mind if very nice guy Brad Siegel and a publicity
Speaker 1: guy with him, Jim Wiss, if they joined us? And
Speaker 1: I said no, not at all. And we all just
Speaker 1: sat around and at her favorite table and we talked
Speaker 1: and told stories and all of that. And soon after
Speaker 1: Brad called me and he said, you know a lot
Speaker 1: about movies and I said, yeah, I guess I do.
Speaker 1: And he said, well, we're going to get rid of
Speaker 1: our afternoon guy at a MC. I'd love you to
Speaker 1: come and be the afternoon guy. This was a big
Speaker 1: deal and I thought it's perfect for me. Everything was,
Speaker 1: negotiations were underway, and then all of a sudden he called.
Speaker 1: He said, Uh, I'm I'm not going to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving. I'm gonna go to work for Ted Turner
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. But you're in good hands. Everything will be fine.
Speaker 1: And I was really disappointed because I like Brad Sigal
Speaker 1: a lot. And Uh. A couple of months went by
Speaker 1: and then he called and he said, Hey, have you
Speaker 1: signed with the AMC thing yet? And I thought he
Speaker 1: was badgering me to say. I said no, no, but
Speaker 1: I got the papers all do He said, well don't.
Speaker 1: Ted's gonna start his own movie channel and I want
Speaker 1: you to be the head guy. He said, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell you. If you come with TCM, you'll
Speaker 1: start with only six million viewers. If you go with AMC,
Speaker 1: you'll have sixty million. If you come with t C M,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to come to Atlanta at once a month.
Speaker 1: If you go with a MC, you can work in
Speaker 1: New York. But the library, he said, if you come
Speaker 1: with TCM, you're gonna have the MGM library, the archaeo library,
Speaker 1: the Warner Brothers Library and all of that, and so
Speaker 1: there was really no choice that that was what year
Speaker 1: that was like nineteen four, So we're coming up on
Speaker 1: eighteen years now. You you you've been there. They launched
Speaker 1: TCM with you as the hood ornament, so to speak
Speaker 1: of that vehicle. Now, the thing is is that in
Speaker 1: that ensuing time, AMC completely changed. They got out of
Speaker 1: the classic mom this is now they're just another movie channel.
Speaker 1: I mean, you became the impromater if you will, Classic film.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about that? Well, I felt very
Speaker 1: good about it. I was confused why they gave up
Speaker 1: on that, but but you know, any people wanted to
Speaker 1: cancel their subscriptions to the game that the problem was,
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have their product. Turner owned the product,
Speaker 1: so they had to spend money to get their product.
Speaker 1: It was also called American Movie clas six mean you
Speaker 1: can't show European films. You know, we have a franchise
Speaker 1: in it where we show nothing but European films at
Speaker 1: certain hours of the day. Now let me say this,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge classic movie junkie, and it may not
Speaker 1: be every style in every period. You know, you when
Speaker 1: we compared our lists and everything. Because people don't realize
Speaker 1: how it works. They'd send to me, here's the films
Speaker 1: that are not preferred, but here's the ones we were
Speaker 1: likely not want to show because they've been in the
Speaker 1: rotational not the last twelve months. So they give me
Speaker 1: a list and they say, if you can choose from
Speaker 1: this list, and here's our list that we own, and
Speaker 1: if you can stick with that, great, but if you
Speaker 1: want to deviate, we'll see if we can get it.
Speaker 1: And and the main reason for that is so that
Speaker 1: we're not showing Sunset Boulevard every year. And I totally
Speaker 1: understand their methodology. So they would send me the list
Speaker 1: and they say, you know, you pick thirty and Bob
Speaker 1: picks thirty, and then you guys will call it together
Speaker 1: and come up with, you know, a list of joint
Speaker 1: list of thirty and you pick something. I'd say to myself,
Speaker 1: why don't really you know, I'm not wild about that movie,
Speaker 1: you know, Random Harvest. I liked, but it wasn't crazy
Speaker 1: about it. But I learned from you what makes that
Speaker 1: a classic film because of how it fits into that
Speaker 1: whole line of Hollywood filmmaking. But I want to go
Speaker 1: back to something you said, which is that you saw
Speaker 1: that film business had changed, and you were in those
Speaker 1: rooms with those people and you were their friend, and
Speaker 1: then realism came. What was a movie you saw at
Speaker 1: that period that you said to myself, my god, the
Speaker 1: movies have changed. Well, Easy Rider. I happened to be
Speaker 1: in London, a place I never went to very often,
Speaker 1: but I happened to be at the Royal Court Theater
Speaker 1: one night seeing a play. Alan Bates was in a play,
Speaker 1: and in the row in front of me was Dennis Hopper,
Speaker 1: who had just come back from I believe the can
Speaker 1: Film Festival where they showed Easy Rider and it won
Speaker 1: some awards, or maybe it was the Venice Film Fest whatever,
Speaker 1: and they were talking about it, and I thought, the
Speaker 1: way the papers were writing about that, I thought, this
Speaker 1: is something very strange that that movie about a couple
Speaker 1: of motorcycle guys on cycles and no smoking, a lot
Speaker 1: out of grass and stories and no plot. And then
Speaker 1: as that thing came out and became so popular, I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is really a seminal change.
Speaker 1: Seminal change. But you know that was kind of on
Speaker 1: its way from back in the late forties when Ingrid Bergmann.
Speaker 1: The reasons she wanted to go do that something with
Speaker 1: Roberto Rossellini. She had seen Open City and Python and
Speaker 1: they were real. These were real people and real on
Speaker 1: the street. So that was starting to come. But then
Speaker 1: when Easy Rider came out and was so embraced by
Speaker 1: this country, not just by foreign film attics or something
Speaker 1: like that, I think that was a big turning. Did
Speaker 1: you think that the Vietnam War was responsible for that change?
Speaker 1: I think I think Kennedy being assassinated changed has changed
Speaker 1: the world. That shot changed everything about America and made
Speaker 1: a cynical and made people discontent angry. You know, for me,
Speaker 1: when I was young, there was a man who when
Speaker 1: you saw this man on TV, he was the movie business.
Speaker 1: There's a man that would sit at a desk and
Speaker 1: you get up from that desk and he talked to
Speaker 1: the camera the movie was in. This man became the
Speaker 1: emblem and that was Walt Disney. And to me, you
Speaker 1: are the Walt Disney of your generation. You come on
Speaker 1: TV and right away people because you have become so synonymous.
Speaker 1: I mean, people just love you, they love your show,
Speaker 1: and you mean the movie Businessant do you sense that
Speaker 1: when you're out of the street with people. I get
Speaker 1: a sense of that, but I honestly don't see it.
Speaker 1: Who do you think you're talking to when you talk
Speaker 1: to the camera, when you do the rat three people.
Speaker 1: I talked to my aunt who lives on a farm,
Speaker 1: who loves old movies, but doesn't know much about him.
Speaker 1: But I also know that if I mentioned bell be Mayor,
Speaker 1: I have to say, identify who he was. I can't
Speaker 1: say Berta Lucci without explaining that he's a director, can't
Speaker 1: be shorthand for my aunt. I also talked to a
Speaker 1: guy that is now a young man, but he was
Speaker 1: in his early twenties, worked for the Hollywood Reporter that
Speaker 1: called me one time and said, you know, I just
Speaker 1: saw this great movie the other night. I was wondering
Speaker 1: if the lady in it made any of the movies.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see some of those movies. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: what's the was the movie that I didn't get the
Speaker 1: name of it? Well, who's the actors? I don't know
Speaker 1: what her name was? Will describe the movie to me?
Speaker 1: He described, and it was guilded with three to Hayworth.
Speaker 1: And so I'm also talking to him. He's interested in movies.
Speaker 1: He wants to learn about movies and all of that.
Speaker 1: And I'm also talking to a friend of mine who
Speaker 1: died recently, called Robert Rosterman in Chicago, who knows as
Speaker 1: much about movies as any of us know, and profession
Speaker 1: he worked for years as a booker for twenty century Fox.
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, but he was a dedicated movie fan.
Speaker 1: But I want to say something in each introduction that's
Speaker 1: also going to be news to him. So I tried
Speaker 1: to gear it for those three people, my aunt and
Speaker 1: my friend John and Robert Rosterman, to cover all basses.
Speaker 1: Robert Osborne, he turns eighty next month. Last year, I
Speaker 1: went to a book party for Keith Richards. I found
Speaker 1: myself seated directly opposite Richards and his wife Patty Hanson.
Speaker 1: And long story short, as Patty Hanson says, we just
Speaker 1: so love you, Alec, we love you on that TV show,
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh good God. I go, Patty Hanson
Speaker 1: to Keith Richard, don't watch the thirty Rock. This is preposterous.
Speaker 1: She's just being so polite, and she says, what's that show?
Speaker 1: She says, Keith, that show we watch every week? We
Speaker 1: watch and Keith Richards looks at me and goes, we
Speaker 1: watch you on Turn A Classic Movies Man every weekend.
Speaker 1: It was so fantastic. We love that show, and I thought,
Speaker 1: God damn it, Osborne has upstaged me again. You're one
Speaker 1: of these guests that we're going to have back because
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the movies themselves. Did you
Speaker 1: have to promise me one thing? What is that? Did
Speaker 1: you come back? Let me and do the essential because
Speaker 1: I know you're trying to start a rumor that you
Speaker 1: got fired or something I got fired, did not get
Speaker 1: I'm like a weak sparring part of the year, not
Speaker 1: for a second. God bless you for doing what you do.
Speaker 1: You we'll see you soon. This is Alec Baldwin and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the thing