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Speaker 5: it out. Ryan, We have a big show to start

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Speaker 5: with today. Elon Musk is now on a rampage against administration.

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Speaker 5: He just left. We have updates out of Gaza. We

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Speaker 5: have Truck Schumer with an incredible video.

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Speaker 3: That looks like an attack on her on basically.

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Speaker 5: About Taco Trump Taco Trump, so stick around for that.

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Speaker 5: We have a little exclusive from the State Department this

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Speaker 5: morning pertaining to a controversy over one of their employees.

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Speaker 5: So we're going to do that and talk about updates

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Speaker 5: from Ukraine. Joy Reid is way in more on why

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Speaker 5: she left MSNBC, so we have some video of her

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Speaker 5: and Wanda vid Rojas from Compact joins us to talk

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Speaker 5: about Trump's the conflicting what do we say, the conflicting tradiction, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: the factions in Trump world. That seems some people seem

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Speaker 5: to want a new policy in Latin America. Other people

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Speaker 5: seem to be clinging to the Cold War mentality. And

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Speaker 5: no surprise there, but Wandavida has been covering all of it,

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Speaker 5: and he's going to join us to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, all.

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Speaker 5: Right, let's dive in Ryan with Elon Musk. Playbook actually

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Speaker 5: counted that Elon Musk posted thirteen times over the course

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Speaker 5: of six hours yesterday, rampaging against Donald Trump's Big Beautiful Bill,

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Speaker 5: which we can announce we can now abbreviate helpfully as BBB,

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Speaker 5: which is by BBB. Is that the grade of your

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Speaker 5: watching this?

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Speaker 4: So let's put are they mimicking build back Better?

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Speaker 3: Is that what they were trying to do there?

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Speaker 5: Or the Better Business Bureau? There's too many triple bes.

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Speaker 5: This is literally that's.

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Speaker 3: Where the bond rating is going. If you passed this,

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Speaker 3: if we're.

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Speaker 5: Lucky, so we can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 5: Elon's tweet here, I guess we have to call it

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Speaker 5: a post on X.

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Speaker 3: We don't know what we don't, he goes.

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Speaker 5: Tweet, he goes, I'm sorry, but I just can't stand

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Speaker 5: it anymore. This massive, outrageous pork Field Congressional spending bill

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Speaker 5: is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it.

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Speaker 5: You know you did wrong. You know it, He adds,

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Speaker 5: it will massively increase the already gigantic budget deficit to

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Speaker 5: two and a half trillion dollars and burden American citizens

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Speaker 5: with crushingly unsustainable debt. Right, there is a lot to

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Speaker 5: talk about here. I just want to start by saying

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Speaker 5: the central premise of Republicans pushing the big beautiful bill

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Speaker 5: is that that two and a half trillion number is wrong,

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Speaker 5: that the Congressional Budget Office is underestimating the growth that'll

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Speaker 5: come as part of this bill. So Elon Musk is

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Speaker 5: not just pushing back on the bill. He is now

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Speaker 5: adopting the counter Naar narrative. And he's not the only one.

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Speaker 5: You know, people like Ron Johnson and Rand Paul are

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Speaker 5: as well. But this is a man who is like

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Speaker 5: a week out of his special government employee status at

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Speaker 5: the White House, and he sounds a whole lot like

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Speaker 5: Rand Paul. And again, Elon Musk was not going anywhere

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Speaker 5: near significant criticisms just a week ago.

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Speaker 4: I'm on the Musk side here because there's two, you know,

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Speaker 4: two types of quote unquote growth that people might be

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Speaker 4: referring to. One is asset inflation, which is basically the

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Speaker 4: stock market goes up and we get a housing bubble,

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Speaker 4: and certainly the more debt we circulate and you know,

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Speaker 4: the more like let's say you start having bitcoin backup treasuries, Like, yes,

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Speaker 4: you can get a run up then in asset prices.

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Speaker 4: That's not economic growth, though, because the way to get

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Speaker 4: economic growth either expand productivity or invest or. You invest

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Speaker 4: in things that you know yield back, you know, actual

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Speaker 4: returns for people in the real economy, and cutting taxes

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Speaker 4: for the rich doesn't do that because unlike, you know,

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Speaker 4: Elon Musk might be the exception among billionaires because apparently

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Speaker 4: he doesn't spend a whole lot of money.

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Speaker 3: You know, he doesn't have like fifteen different.

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Speaker 5: Houses, is fifteen different children probably, Well.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 4: He probably spends on all of his different children in

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Speaker 4: the amount that a normal billionaire spends on their houses.

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Speaker 4: He also flies everywhere. It's not like he's living a cheap.

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Speaker 5: Life's a monk.

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Speaker 4: The point is he's so rich, and these other rich

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Speaker 4: people are so rich that giving them more money doesn't

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Speaker 4: mean they spend more. If you give a normal person

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Speaker 4: a little extra money, if you give a mouse a cookie,

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Speaker 4: they're going to spend it. Yes, yeah, I mean actually

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Speaker 4: if you give him as a cookie is sort of

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Speaker 4: the explanation for how this works. But if you give

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Speaker 4: a regular person money, they're going to spend it because

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Speaker 4: there's things that they want that they can't have because

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Speaker 4: they don't have enough money. If you give a billionaire

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Speaker 4: another fifty thousand dollars, they don't even notice for the

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Speaker 4: most part, might see his uptick in this in the

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Speaker 4: stock market. So that that's why I think to the

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Speaker 4: higher estimate is probably more accurate. Now, if I want

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Speaker 4: to nitpick him, is there pork in this bill? Pork

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Speaker 4: is where you're like, hey, we're this community center or

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Speaker 4: this bridge in this district in Kentucky is going to

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Speaker 4: get seventy five million dollars.

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Speaker 3: There is there some of that in there.

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Speaker 5: So that is definitely a nitpick because no, I'm what.

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Speaker 4: They're going to do is the Trump administration will then

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Speaker 4: do it for them rather than put it in the bill.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's sort of similar to the Biden Infrastructure Bill.

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Speaker 5: But that's actually part of the problem that some people

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Speaker 5: like Elon Musk and Ran Paul have with it is

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Speaker 5: that it hasn't fully dismantled. So Republicans are chalking this

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Speaker 5: up to Elon must be mad that it gets rid

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Speaker 5: of some of the EV like Biden's EV support package.

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Speaker 4: It's crazy, like who spends one hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 4: dollars and gets well, I mean he got all his

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Speaker 4: investigations knocked away. But yeah, he's getting absolutely routed when

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Speaker 4: it comes to the government benefits that he was getting.

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Speaker 5: I just don't know how important that is to him.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's important to Tesla, But how important is Tesla?

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Speaker 5: How important is Tesla in his portfolio?

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Speaker 4: Is leverage? He is highly leveraged. His collateral is Tesla's

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Speaker 4: st Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that collapses. Then the bankers

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Speaker 4: start calling, and the bankers he does not have the

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Speaker 4: kind of bankers that you want calling.

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Speaker 3: These are people who are like.

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Speaker 4: Hey, why don't we meet in the consulate in Istanbul,

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Speaker 4: the Saudi consulate in Istanbill to talk about you're a

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Speaker 4: little bit overdue on your latest payment and then you

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Speaker 4: go and then you leave in a bucket.

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Speaker 5: So he's actually by complaining about pork, asking for pork

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Speaker 5: for Elon. If that's his definition of pork, which is,

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Speaker 5: you know, something that's inserted into the bill to please

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Speaker 5: the very particular or niche interest of the donor class,

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Speaker 5: is not really the technical definition of pork, but there is.

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Speaker 5: Some people are upset that there haven't been This is

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Speaker 5: up out in the Wall Street drawer. There haven't been.

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Speaker 5: There There isn't enough dismantling of the Biden agenda in

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Speaker 5: this bill. But that's of course what's upsetting to Elon.

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Speaker 5: And this is where Trump right now is between a

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Speaker 5: rock and a hard place, because moderates say the bill

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Speaker 5: is already cutting too much, and then people like Rand

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Speaker 5: Paul and Ron Johnson say the bill is not cutting enough.

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Speaker 5: And that includes now, I suppose Elon Musk. So let's

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Speaker 5: go ahead and roll a three. This is Rand Paul

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Speaker 5: on Fox Yesterday, Fox Business Yesterday.

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Speaker 6: In a separate post, Trump said there's a false narrative

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Speaker 6: about spending in this bill. He said it is quote

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Speaker 6: single biggest spending cut in history by far. Kentucky Centator round,

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Speaker 6: Paul joins me. Now, missus, Senator, I know you want

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Speaker 6: more spending cuts included in the bill. Can you tell

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Speaker 6: us what specifically you'd want to cut.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's even more than that.

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Speaker 8: The biggest objection I have to the bill is adding

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Speaker 8: five trillion dollars to the debt ceiling. I'm actually very

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Speaker 8: supportive of the tax cuts. I don't accept the CBO

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Speaker 8: notion that the tax cuts will lead to deficits. The

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Speaker 8: reason I believe there will be more deficits is they're

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Speaker 8: raising the debt ceiling five trillion.

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Speaker 5: We know that this year.

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Speaker 8: Most of the Republicans, not me, voted to continue the

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Speaker 8: Biden's spending levels in March, so we're going to go

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Speaker 8: through September of this year, and the deficit.

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Speaker 7: For this year is going to be over two trillion.

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Speaker 8: If you're borrowing five trillion, that makes me think you're

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Speaker 8: going to add over two trillion, maybe two point eight

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Speaker 8: trillion next year. So it doesn't show me that you've

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Speaker 8: turned around. If you look at the spending cuts, it's

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Speaker 8: complicated because it's at one point five trillion. It sounds

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Speaker 8: like it's enormous number, but it's over ten years. So

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Speaker 8: it's one hundred and fifty billion a year. They're also

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Speaker 8: increasing spending for the military and for the border three

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Speaker 8: hundred billion. That's actually more than all the Doze cuts

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Speaker 8: that we've found so far. So something doesn't really add

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Speaker 8: up here. And I can't be on record as being

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Speaker 8: one who supports increasing the debt by five trillion. I

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Speaker 8: think that's irresponsible. The bond markets are already starting to

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Speaker 8: show that their skittish over this. We got interest rates

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Speaker 8: of over five percent on the ten year bonds. There

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Speaker 8: are real problems we face as a country and we

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Speaker 8: can't just blithely go on the way we have in

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Speaker 8: the past.

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Speaker 5: So Ron Johnson also specifically said that he's very concerned

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Speaker 5: about how the bill will affect the bond markets, which

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Speaker 5: is a completely reasonable concern. Interesting, yeah, right now he's no.

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Speaker 5: And they say they only need four of them. That's

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Speaker 5: the line that you keep hearing from Rand Paul and

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Speaker 5: others in the Senate. They only need to band together

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Speaker 5: four people, and that could mean an unusual marriage between

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Speaker 5: right Susan Collins.

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Speaker 3: So is Utah liberals gonna We'll see.

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Speaker 5: But there, I mean, you might not even need that

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Speaker 5: because if you combine the fiscal hawks with the moderates,

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Speaker 5: you're already easily at four.

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Speaker 3: So well Collins, Collins get the four.

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Speaker 5: Collins will be wobbly on because of Medicaid. That's she's

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Speaker 5: already indicated.

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Speaker 4: Your asking Mains senator to cut energy assistance, oil assistance

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Speaker 4: for working people in winter in Main.

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Speaker 5: Then also, this is where it gets even worse for Republicans.

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Speaker 3: They have to gets called there. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Also last they then have to kick this back over

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Speaker 5: to the House to approve the changes. And everybody remembers

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Speaker 5: that this only went over to the Senate because Mike

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Speaker 5: Johnson cut a deal with some of the fiscal hawks

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Speaker 5: in the House to basically rubber stamp it and say,

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Speaker 5: we trust the President to work with the Senate to

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Speaker 5: get a better deal, but we don't like this bill.

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Speaker 5: We're not voting for this bill. We're voting basically to

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Speaker 5: send it over to the Senate and to get the

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Speaker 5: ball rolling. They want to have this bill done. Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump continues to push to have this bill done by

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Speaker 5: a month from today, July fourth. They want the bill

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Speaker 5: to be signed and enacted by the fourth.

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Speaker 3: Of July, trying to get it done fast.

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Speaker 5: Otherwise you start losing to the recess and you're into

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Speaker 5: the fall, and then you're into midterms. So it sounds

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Speaker 5: ridiculous because we're only a few months into the presidency,

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Speaker 5: but it comes up really. Midterms come up really fast,

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Speaker 5: especially because Congress gets so much time off.

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Speaker 4: And so the House hawks they want the bill to

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Speaker 4: get to add spending cuts in the Senate, right Whereas

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Speaker 4: in order to get the senators that are wobbly, to

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Speaker 4: get Ran Paul, you'd have to do more cuts like

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Speaker 4: the hawks in the House want, But to get Murkowski

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Speaker 4: and Collins.

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Speaker 3: You'd have to do fewer cuts, right yah.

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Speaker 4: And the Pentagon just you can't like, we're doing a

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Speaker 4: trillion dollars for the Pentagon and that's all there is.

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Speaker 4: Like there's no nobody can come in and be like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 4: what if we didn't like massively increase the Pentagon budget.

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Speaker 5: So this is where Elon Musk, while he's siding with

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Speaker 5: Rand Paul. Here you also heard Rand Paul throw a

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Speaker 5: little bit very subtle dig at Doge, saying that the

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Speaker 5: spending is higher than the Doge cuts and that's because

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Speaker 5: a lot of Republicans in order to get this bill passed,

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Speaker 5: which by The way is, as we've talked about, a

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Speaker 5: really critical element of the tariff agenda. So they believe

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Speaker 5: that the teriff Agenda, this is the sort of necessary

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Speaker 5: supplement to it that creates an industrial policy for onsuring.

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Speaker 5: We could debate whether or not that's the case, but

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Speaker 5: it has things like one ride offs retroactive to January

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Speaker 5: twentieth for factory building, manufacturing building, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 5: I think the corporate tax rate going from twenty one

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Speaker 5: to fifteen is industrial policy. So they feel like this

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Speaker 5: is an absolutely essential part of the tariff agenda. All

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Speaker 5: of that was predicated on the idea that Doge was

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Speaker 5: going to find so many cuts in the government that

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Speaker 5: they could basically do whatever they wanted to do with

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Speaker 5: this bill.

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Speaker 4: This is where I start to worry about your people,

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Speaker 4: my pav pol. Yeah, that anybody took seriously the claim

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Speaker 4: for Elon Musk that he was going to cut a

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Speaker 4: trillion dollars and at one point he said it was

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Speaker 4: going to be two trillion dollars makes me worry about them,

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Speaker 4: makes me for viewers and for regular people whose media

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Speaker 4: diet has been telling them that there's waste, fraud and

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Speaker 4: abuse shot through the federal.

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Speaker 3: Government, their entire lives.

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Speaker 4: I don't blame those people who believed that this was

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Speaker 4: going to be possible.

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Speaker 3: I don't even blame Elon Musk.

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Speaker 4: He's just drug addled like tech guy who just like

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Speaker 4: most tech people, like, doesn't know anything outside of like

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Speaker 4: this very narrow area, but thinks they're experts everywhere.

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Speaker 3: That's just his personality types. So I don't even blame him.

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Speaker 4: But the people who've spent ten decades in Washington thinking

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Speaker 4: that Elon Musk was going to come in and identify

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Speaker 4: trillions of dollars in like painless waste fraud abuse, that

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Speaker 4: makes me worry about them if they were not just

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Speaker 4: cynically using him. Steve Bannon, friend of the show, you know,

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Speaker 4: was saying from the very beginning, this is a fraud.

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Speaker 4: And now they wouldn't go to the Pentagon, right, And

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Speaker 4: now he's been saying, look all of these people in Washington,

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Speaker 4: these Republicans in Washington, didn't want to make the painful cuts,

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Speaker 4: and so they just put their faith in Elon Musk

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Speaker 4: that he was going to find this this trillion dollars.

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Speaker 4: He didn't find it, he was never going to find it,

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Speaker 4: and so he marched them into this place where now

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Speaker 4: they've got all the tax cuts ready to go and

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Speaker 4: the Pentagon spending, but they don't have the cuts. The

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Speaker 4: cuts were never there because they weren't willing to go

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Speaker 4: after power centers like Medicaid and Medicare. Fraud is on

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Speaker 4: the provider side. It's the it's the private equity owned doctors.

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Speaker 4: It's the straight up fraudulent just you know, just put

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Speaker 4: bars around Miami. Don't let anybody leave until you find

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Speaker 4: every Medicare fraudster. Yes, I mean, ask Rick Scott medicare fraudster.

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Speaker 4: Who's the senator from my from Florida, Like ask him, like, hey,

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Speaker 4: how'd you do that? And he could tell you in

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Speaker 4: like two minutes. Oh, it's really easy. You just claim

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Speaker 4: that you did services that you didn't do, and you

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Speaker 4: send that to the federal government. The federal government, with

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Speaker 4: no questions asked, sends you money and we're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: we have AI now that could maybe detect that stuff.

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Speaker 4: Like maybe you have to send an actual photo of

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Speaker 4: Oh you say you sell wheelchairs, you say you sell scooters,

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Speaker 4: Send us a picture of the scooter and we're going

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Speaker 4: to reverse Google search image of that thing. Make sure

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Speaker 4: you didn't just pull it off the web. You can

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Speaker 4: stop this stuff.

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Speaker 7: It is.

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Speaker 3: It's not that difficult.

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Speaker 4: But what's difficult is doing it politically, because these are

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Speaker 4: white collar criminals who have bought off the system and

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Speaker 4: have gotten themselves elected into the system. Well, so that's

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Speaker 4: why you weren't going to find the trillion dollars.

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Speaker 5: It's partially a matter of semantics too, because when they

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Speaker 5: say things like widespread fraud and abuse, I actually agree

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Speaker 5: with that, But so what are they looking at right now?

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Speaker 5: Like one hundred and sixty What is one hundred and

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Speaker 5: sixty billion in cuts from dose?

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Speaker 3: That's the top line nonsense.

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Speaker 4: The way to actually calculate what they really saved would

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Speaker 4: be how much is Congress quote unquote rescinding.

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Speaker 3: That's money that was spent.

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Speaker 4: But then because you found the fraud abuse, Congress can

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Speaker 4: just take it back, and that's nine billion.

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Speaker 5: That's insane.

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Speaker 4: Two of that is NPR and PBS, which you don't

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Speaker 4: need Doge to like defund NPR and PBS. That's an

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Speaker 4: ideological thing that they can just do. So that's seven

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Speaker 4: and a bunch of that is like leases and lit's

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Speaker 4: just stuff that and God help us if any of

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Speaker 4: that actually saves us money, Like this is probably stuff

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Speaker 4: that you cut that seven billion dollars, it's going to

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Speaker 4: end up costing the federal government more money down the road.

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Speaker 4: But okay, fine, seven billion, he found seven billion. How

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Speaker 4: do we know that none of it was fraud? Because

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Speaker 4: have you seen a single headline about DOGE referring a

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Speaker 4: frauds Department of Justice? It's a lot of would that

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Speaker 4: not be just leading everywhere? Well, there we got them,

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Speaker 4: ladies and gentlemen, you.

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Speaker 5: Got them definitely. Okay, So this is what I mean

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Speaker 5: semantics the waste question. Yeah, I mean, but if you're

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Speaker 5: saying widespread to the tune of two trillion dollars, which

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Speaker 5: is what he projected, what you end up finding and

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Speaker 5: let me say, plenty of waste at the Pentagon that

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Speaker 5: they could have gone after. So no, I do think there's.

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Speaker 3: Like why are we doing?

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Speaker 4: He could have been like, hey, guys, why are we

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Speaker 4: building another nuclear triad?

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Speaker 3: Like we don't need it?

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Speaker 4: Like they're talking about spending a trillion dollars yep on

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Speaker 4: a new batch of nuclear weapons yep. You could you

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Speaker 4: could be like, hey, number one on the agenda, what

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Speaker 4: let's just not do this, yeah, and make people argue

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Speaker 4: why you should do it, Like, actually, all right, we

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Speaker 4: heard the arguments we have enough nuclear weapons that we

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Speaker 4: can kill everyone on the planet one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 4: five times over.

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Speaker 3: We're good trillion dollars.

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Speaker 4: Saved that you would that would actually but guess what

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Speaker 4: that would mean special interests who are involved in that

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Speaker 4: nuclear program would it would have to take a haircut,

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Speaker 4: and they don't want to do that.

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Speaker 5: So that is to say, the question of how widespread

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Speaker 5: it is versus the just amount of money that we

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Speaker 5: spend on medicaid for example, Medicare, Medicaid, social Security, it

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Speaker 5: just pales. And the Pentagon budget too, although you could

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Speaker 5: actually just delete the Pentagon, you could go to the

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Speaker 5: entire defense budget and it would not make a dent

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Speaker 5: in the deficit, which sounds crazy, or in the debt,

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Speaker 5: i should say, which sounds crazy, but's true. At the manhattan'stude,

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Speaker 5: they've run the numbers on that. So it's just like

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Speaker 5: the fiscal hawks there have run the numbers on that.

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Speaker 5: It's it's really really good.

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Speaker 4: It would get your it would get your lines closer,

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Speaker 4: which is what the market really cares about.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it would be helpful for that type of.

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Speaker 4: Thing doesn't close everything because you've got thirty trillion dollar

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Speaker 4: debt right now roughly.

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Speaker 5: It's I mean, it's still pale. Like Actually, defense spending

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Speaker 5: pales in comparison to how much money the expenditures, annual

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Speaker 5: expenditures on Medicaid, Medicare and those things.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if if you took a trillion out, then

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Speaker 4: that thirty trillion dollar dead starts to shrink. However, actually

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Speaker 4: it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: It does.

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Speaker 4: It does then it is the American military that makes

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Speaker 4: the dollar the reserve currency. Right, so the whole thing

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Speaker 4: collapses without the military.

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Speaker 5: It's so much fun.

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Speaker 3: But maybe you don't need a trillion dollar one.

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Speaker 5: But that's what gives people like Ron Johnson pause. And

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Speaker 5: this Ron Johnson from the Tea Party Wave by the way,

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Speaker 5: who is talking about how now is not the time

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Speaker 5: to be cutting taxes and he specifically has looked at

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Speaker 5: the same said to look at the bond markets. He

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Speaker 5: was just on Tucker Carlson Show actually making this case,

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Speaker 5: making basically an extended case against the BBB. So the

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Speaker 5: Trump administration has a month to somehow get these dug

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Speaker 5: in factions to the same place and I mean Rand

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00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,719
Speaker 5: Paul has said that he is ready to compromise, that

439
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 5: he is he understands he's going to have to compromise.

440
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 5: If you are Mike Johnson and you have been giving

441
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 5: Elon mus cover for months, you are just beside yourself

442
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 5: and furious about this right now because he didn't find

443
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 5: the cuts that he was supposed to find, and now

444
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 5: he has the audacity to criticize your bill because after

445
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 5: it is it is. At the same time, you also

446
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 5: look at someone like Mike Johnson, you say you have

447
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 5: the audacity to talk about government spending and then put

448
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 5: a bill like this on the table. So just I

449
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 5: don't honestly, I don't know where they go. I mean,

450
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 5: they're desperate, which means that they'll be willing to make

451
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 5: significant compromises. I don't know that they even have a

452
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 5: good idea of what some of those compromises might look

453
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 5: like going forward. And that's pretty important for the way

454
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 5: that they see the entire economy. The American economy is

455
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 5: sort of hanging on whether or not they're able to

456
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 5: get some version of this past. We will see Ryan

457
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 5: how that ends up. We will continue to follow the story.

458
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: Ryan, Let's move what's the next thing to watch on that,

459
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: and then we'll go to So.

460
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 5: John Thune is meeting with Donald Trump at the White

461
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 5: House today and they're hitdling on policy in the particularly

462
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 5: tax policy. So we'll see what comes out of that.

463
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 5: It's going to be daily negotiations. I mean, I actually

464
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 5: think Trump has had sort of a lighter schedule the

465
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 5: last couple of days because he's working the phones and

466
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 5: taking meetings try to get people into the same pay

467
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 5: or onto the same page on this which it's just

468
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 5: sort of at this point unfathomable what you can do

469
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 5: to build up bridge, but they have a month to try.

470
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: Pierce Morgan has gotten increasingly fed up with the arguments

471
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 4: that he's been hearing from defenders of Israel on his

472
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 4: program in a way that I think is symbolic of

473
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 4: the broader shift in Western media and politics going on

474
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 4: at the moment that there have been a couple of

475
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 4: viral moments just from the last twenty four hours. One

476
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 4: of those we wanted to play here this is Natasha Hasdorff,

477
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: who is a UK lawyer who represents Israel and went

478
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: on with both comic Dave Smith and Pierce Morgan. Though

479
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 4: you'll see that Dave Smith plays the same role that

480
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 4: you're going to play in this which is just watching.

481
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: So let's do that.

482
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 9: I was told by the investor to the UK it

483
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 9: was a blood libel for me to suggest that Israeli

484
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 9: killed children.

485
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 10: No, I don't believe that was the case. I want

486
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 10: to do with targeting children. There is a difference because

487
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 10: we are hearing that Israel's targeting children and that couldn't

488
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 10: be further from Well.

489
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 9: Last week, nine out of ten children in one home

490
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 9: where two doctors reside were killed in an air strike.

491
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,239
Speaker 9: What was that?

492
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 11: Remarkable?

493
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 9: What was that?

494
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 11: That has been based only on the basis of hearsay.

495
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 9: You don't believe that story?

496
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 11: Nation, I want these stories.

497
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 9: Wait, wait, wait a minute, you don't believe those children

498
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 9: kill I have.

499
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 10: Seen conflicting accounts, and I want that story to be

500
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 10: properly investigated before the international media runs with it.

501
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 9: Do you think those two parents, one of whom I think,

502
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 9: operated on.

503
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 11: One of the children.

504
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 5: I have a question.

505
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 9: Do you think that those two doctors, the parents they

506
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 9: just made it up? Why the nine of their ten

507
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 9: children had been blown to pieces by and Israeli is right?

508
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 11: If this is true, you don't believe it, well, why.

509
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 10: On earth was artificially generated imagery used to promote this

510
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 10: story when it first I've got to say, what.

511
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 9: You've just said about that family is despicable.

512
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 11: We've seen time. Sorry, it's despicable.

513
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 9: Somebody you talk about blood libel, like David said, you

514
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 9: talk about blood libel, you talk about lies. You're talking

515
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 9: about promoting propaganda. And who you sit here as a

516
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 9: lawyer and you say that you do not believe those

517
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 9: nine children were.

518
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 11: I didn't say that. You're putting it in my mouth.

519
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 9: Do you believe it or not?

520
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 11: Said that they were conflicted?

521
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 7: Do you believe it?

522
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 11: And it needs to be invested?

523
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 9: Do you believe it?

524
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 11: I thought you would be.

525
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 9: The parents said nine of their ten children were killed.

526
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 9: Do you believe them or that there's two doctors make

527
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 9: it up?

528
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 10: They haven't said that directly as far as I have seen,

529
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 10: I have seen secondhand accounts and hearsay.

530
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 11: But it's important to ask why are these civilians still there?

531
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 11: Why is it that you know?

532
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 9: It's important to usk whether you believe that family have

533
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 9: lost nine of their ten children.

534
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 11: I want to know why the international don't do you don't?

535
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 9: And this goes to the point that I would say

536
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 9: about Israel generally now in this wall, Israel says they

537
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 9: don't believe anything everything. Every story that comes out about

538
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 9: the deaths of civilians in Gaza, someone will pop up

539
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 9: representing the Israeli governments saying it's propaganda, it's not true.

540
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 9: I've heard it's.

541
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,959
Speaker 4: Not right Emily the most revealing comment from her. I

542
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,239
Speaker 4: thought maybe it was accidental, but she said why are

543
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 4: those civilians still there? Which I think what she's referring

544
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 4: to is that, like six months before these nine children

545
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 4: were killed, there was an evacuation order given for that

546
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 4: area where they live. The problem with these evacuation orders

547
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 4: is that they Israel does not they don't expire. They'll say, okay,

548
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 4: we're going to be the IDEF is going to be

549
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: operating in this area. Everyone from this neighborhood leave, people leave,

550
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 4: IDF comes in, and then the IDF leaves, and then

551
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 4: everyone from the neighborhood comes back, and then six months

552
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 4: later they bombit and say, well, we told you to leave.

553
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 4: But the underlying quote there, what are these civilians still

554
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 4: doing there? I think represents this like deep, something deeper,

555
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 4: like they are very frustrated that there are still civilians

556
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 4: in Gaza twenty months later, I thought, why have we

557
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: not fully expelled everybody yet, Like, what is going on here?

558
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: Why are you even still there?

559
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 4: And that brings us to this absolute calamity of an

560
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 4: effort at AID distribution. Over this week, it's been a

561
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,239
Speaker 4: wild week because over the weekend, you remember, there's this

562
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: massacre at about a kilometer from an AID distribution center.

563
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 4: The IDF initially claimed that it had not fired any

564
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 4: shots whatsoever. They sent an email out to some reporters

565
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: that said, off the record, we did fire shots at

566
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 4: the direction of suspects because we told them to stop

567
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: coming at us and they kept coming. So we did shoot,

568
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 4: but we don't believe that we shot any right, They.

569
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 5: Said that off the record, and an email that also

570
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 5: include the denial.

571
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 3: Right that also include the denial.

572
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 4: And so a reporter sent me this and like, Hey,

573
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 4: I can't use this because I've agreed to receive these

574
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: emails that are off the record. You haven't agreed to this,

575
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 4: So I published that. So they're like, Okay, yes we

576
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: did shoot, but we don't know who was hit, and

577
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 4: like maybe there was Hamas And then they released this

578
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 4: video that they said was hamas gunman doing the shooting.

579
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: Turned out that was at a different day, at a

580
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 4: different location and where it was in Communis and it

581
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 4: was gangs that were backed by Israel who had stolen

582
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 4: aid and we're selling it and people who wouldn't pay

583
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 4: them for it, they were shooting them. So that fell

584
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 4: apart the watching post yesterday, should this like incredible like

585
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: correction that said, while three eye witnesses talking about the

586
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: weekend massacre, while three eyewitnesses told the Washington Post that

587
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 4: the gunfire came from the Israelis, Israel denied it, and

588
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 4: we did not give proper weight to the Israeli denial

589
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 4: in our original article. I can't imagine any other shooter

590
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: who would get that kind of grace. Even though three

591
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: people said they saw you do it, you said you didn't,

592
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 4: and we should have put it that you said you

593
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 4: didn't right in the headline while this debate over the

594
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: level of Israel's culpability of the weekend massacre was ongoing, I.

595
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 5: Say, by the way, I don't even object to that,

596
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 5: because people can make up their own decisions about people

597
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 5: are supposed to give weight on their own without necessarily

598
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 5: being handheld to the journal, sayway, and.

599
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 4: So while this debate has been going on about what

600
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: was Israel's responsibility for the massacre on over the weekend,

601
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 4: there has been a masker every single day at a

602
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 4: Gaza Humanitarian Foundation a distribution site, including just recently, including

603
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 4: and again last night.

604
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: We can roll b one.

605
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 4: This is This is imagery from yesterday evening Gaza time

606
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 4: where the Gods of Humanitarian Foundation announced that it was

607
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 4: going to be pausing distribution because the Boston Consulting Group,

608
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 4: which was the consulting for American consulting firm that basically

609
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: did all the work to set up GHF, announced that

610
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 4: it was leaving. They said, this was pro bono work

611
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 4: and we're putting on leave the partner who brought us

612
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: into this debacle and we're not helping them anymore. Conflicting

613
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: reports came out that they were they were sending million

614
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: dollar invoices for the work that they've done here. I'm

615
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: sure we'll see that sorted out in court.

616
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: Either way. The word goes out, Okay, we lost our consultant.

617
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 4: We're not We're not gonna We're not gonna do dis

618
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: Truck drivers leak to their friends and family and Gaza. Hey,

619
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: there's going to be a convoy going through that. That

620
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 4: was Western Gaza City that you see. So a massive

621
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 4: crowd convenes in Western Gaza City of starving people who

622
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 4: are there hoping that they're going to be able to

623
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 4: like a truck will stop. And then what happens is

624
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: when the truck stops, they just unload everything right there,

625
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 4: and whoever is close enough to the truck and strong

626
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: enough to like hold on to the bag of flower

627
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 4: gets to like leave with the bag of flower in

628
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 4: this hunger game style situation. And so while this chaos

629
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 4: is unfolding, and what you see in the video there

630
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: is people running from gunfire, different reports of where it

631
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 4: was coming from, helicopters, quad copters. Again, you know, you

632
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 4: get you get denials. We can put up this next element,

633
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: which I think is B six. So as we're going

634
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: back and forth over you know what happened? Who did

635
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 4: the shooting? Most of Babutoha, who you guys may remember.

636
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 4: He's the Gaza poet who won a Pulitzer prize this year.

637
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: He got this video where he says, I've just found

638
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 4: this video posted by a mean's friend. The man's name.

639
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 4: The man's named Amin Samir Khalifa. He documented the moment

640
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 4: when Israeli soldiers opened fire at them yesterday morning. Amen

641
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 4: was killed along with over thirty people. The Israeli forces

642
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 4: denied their responsibility for the killing, and the media changed

643
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 4: their headlines. Can you tell us who killed Amen and

644
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 4: the other star of people? And if you go find

645
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 4: this on his feed, it's just an absolutely horrifying scene

646
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: of explosions in gunfire. And then tell yourself this is

647
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: billed as an aid distribution site. This is why you

648
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: don't militarize aid distribution sites like they turn an AID

649
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 4: site into a war zone. For the first sixteen seventeen

650
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: months of the war, the UN World Food Program, World

651
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: Central Kitchen and others, you didn't see images like this.

652
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: Occasionally you would see the flower Masacre, which involved the IDF.

653
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: You saw World Central Kitchen trucks getting hit by the IDF.

654
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 4: But you never saw the World of Food Program shooting

655
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 4: at hungry people. And you never saw scenes of warehouses

656
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 4: getting mobbed or trucks getting mobbed. It's only when this

657
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 4: program has taken over that that you start to see this.

658
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 4: And I think because Pierce Morgan is covering this stuff

659
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 4: every day that that's what accounts for his turn.

660
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 3: What do you think.

661
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 5: It's I think Piers Morgan as such a you just

662
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 5: said turn, as such a staunch defender of the Israeli

663
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 5: government and the Israeli side of the conflict, is representative

664
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: of something that we've covered in general, which is the

665
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 5: public sentiment in places like the UK and the US

666
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 5: just shifting over the course of the post October seventh

667
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 5: War in ways that I just people like the barrister

668
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 5: he was interviewing are not at all prepared for. I

669
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 5: think it's catching them off guard to some extent. It

670
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 5: was a really dark exchange, a really dark exchange in

671
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 5: that video, and just watching the last video we watched

672
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: and hearing thinking back to her point about why artificially

673
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 5: intelligent videos a I generated videos had initially come out.

674
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 5: That is so so dark when you think about it.

675
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: We're going to see that now exactly.

676
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 4: Anytime there'll be a masker going forward, there will also

677
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 4: be some AI related content that comes out as well,

678
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: and the people who carried out the masker will say, well, look,

679
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 4: this part's fake, so maybe all of it's fake, and.

680
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 5: They may generate it.

681
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 3: They might generate, right, and that's.

682
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 5: Really really you may generate it as a shield. So

683
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 5: it's just quite frightening to hear that line. It does

684
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 5: I think grind smack of desperation. And the only other

685
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 5: point I wanted to make is I think Piers Morgan

686
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 5: is wrong. I think she actually does believe that the

687
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 5: family was killed. I think that's probably why she didn't

688
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: want to really answer the question. And that's to your

689
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 5: point about the more interesting or the most interesting line

690
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 5: being that why were they still there? Why were they

691
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 5: still in Gaza? I think she probably does believe that

692
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: they were killed, and just doesn't feel the need to

693
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: or doesn't feel like it would be advantageous for her

694
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 5: to defend it. And so it's easier to say, from

695
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: the sort of public relations cynical perspective, well, we don't

696
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 5: really know what happened. The answer is that they believe

697
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 5: the government believes that's the collateral damage.

698
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, here's the exact line from the Washington Post. The

699
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 4: Post didn't give proper weight to Israel's denial and gave

700
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: improper certitude about what was known about any Israeli role

701
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 4: in the shootings. The early versions fell short of Post

702
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: standards of fairness and should not have been published in

703
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 4: that form. This is after Bill Ackmen, like snitch tagged

704
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 4: Jeff Bezos on Twitter.

705
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: I was like.

706
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 4: And saying that, like, this is the kind of thing

707
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: that is producing anti semitism around the country.

708
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: It's like, No, the Washington Post reporting.

709
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 4: On these massacres is not what is driving anti semitism.

710
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 4: And to me, none of it should be driving anti

711
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 4: semitism either way, because Israel is a state and I

712
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 4: refuse to allow Israel to claim that it represents an

713
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: entire religion of thousands that is thousands of years old

714
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: like that, that, to me is what everyone should be

715
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: drawing a line at this that these actions do not

716
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: represent Judaism.

717
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 3: Like how anti semitic would it be to say that

718
00:36:59,600 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 3: they do.

719
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 5: The Bill Ackman niche tweet is it's a way to

720
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: use that expand the definition of anti semitism to use

721
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 5: as a shield that protects a political actor, a state

722
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 5: actor from scrutiny, do scrutiny that would apply to any

723
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 5: political or state actor in a conflict.

724
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 4: So their new version written to satisfy Bill Ackman says,

725
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 4: while three witnesses said the gunfire came from Israeli military positions.

726
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: The Israel Defense Forces denied the allegations, saying in a

727
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 4: statement that an initial inquiry indicated that its soldiers did

728
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: not fire at civilians while they were near or within

729
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: the distribution site.

730
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: Then they add An.

731
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 4: Israeli military official later said that troops had quote acted

732
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: to prevent several suspects from approaching unquote them overnight and

733
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 4: fired warning shots at the group.

734
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: Well wait a minute, which is.

735
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 4: It, but that there was quote no connection between this

736
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 4: incident and the false claims made against the IDF.

737
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, so we.

738
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 4: Did shoot at those people at the time that this

739
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 4: is said to have happened, but there's no connection between that.

740
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 4: I have never seen a line that is closer to

741
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 4: These are not the droids you're looking for.

742
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: Than that one.

743
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 4: Okay, yes we did it, but there's no connection between

744
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 4: this incident and the false claims made against the IDF. Oh,

745
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 4: these are not the droids we're looking for.

746
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 5: It's dark, really really dark stuff.

747
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, the Gaza flotilla I believe it's called the Maldine

748
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 4: is getting closer. We can put up this next element

749
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 4: getting closer to Gaza. This borderline suicidal mission, which includes

750
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 4: Greta Thurnberg and roughly what a dozen or so international activists.

751
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think if I see any Americans on here.

752
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: I do not see any Americans on board this ship.

753
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 4: We can put up before they posted this image or

754
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 4: this this audio of a drone flying over top of

755
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 4: them rolled before.

756
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 12: Hey everyone, this is Diaguablon here on board and Madeline.

757
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 12: We are on our mission to break the stage of Gaza.

758
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 12: Is that they're nine and there's a drone on.

759
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 7: Top of our ship.

760
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 12: We need your support right now, right now. Please tell

761
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 12: everyone demand a safe passage. If this is an attack,

762
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 12: we need your support right now.

763
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 4: This, of course, is after Lindsey Graham effectively called for

764
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 4: Israeli sink the ship.

765
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 3: What do you say?

766
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 4: I hope that Greta can swim, And a bunch of

767
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 4: other kind of pro Israel influencers we're making the same

768
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 4: remarks that wouldn't it be great if Israel would just

769
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 4: solve our Greta problem here and just, you know, sink

770
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 4: this ship. After the twenty eleventh flotilla was rated by

771
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 4: Israeli troops and I think eleven were killed.

772
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 5: So they're trying to distribute eight as my understanding, So

773
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 5: how what do you think practically happens when they get

774
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 5: so they I think set shell sail from Italy. So

775
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 5: when they get can't I mean it can't be at

776
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 5: this point too far away. What happens when they get there?

777
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 5: Practically it would be your prediction.

778
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 4: I mean, they could just let them, Like it'd be

779
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: wild if they just got out of their way and

780
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 4: just let them land and let them distribute everything on

781
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 4: the ship. There's no there's there's no way there's weapons

782
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 4: on that ship. Just there's just no way, Like how

783
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: suicidal would that be to have weapons on the ship,

784
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: And so just let them give them meta food and

785
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: medicines on the ship and let them just unload it

786
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 4: and then go.

787
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 3: Back, go away Like that is a that is an

788
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 3: option that is available to the Israelis at this moment.

789
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: That that that is not even being discussed in meetings

790
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: about how to handle this is indicative of the tenor

791
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 4: of the approach towards humanitarian aid. The best case scenario

792
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 4: is that there's some Israeli naval ships that kind of

793
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 4: stop the ship and turn it around within what Israel

794
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 4: is considering the worst case scenari would be what happen

795
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 4: in twenty eleven where they attacked the ship and board

796
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 4: it and killed a bunch of people. And let's pray

797
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 4: that that doesn't happen. Yeah, what are we on next, Oh,

798
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer.

799
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about it ran, which is actually

800
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 5: sadly a decent segue from this block to the next block,

801
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 5: because we've seen the connection many times, so of course

802
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 5: the last couple of weeks, but we do have a

803
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 5: really incredible clip of Chuck Schumer, the most talented politician

804
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 5: of his general.

805
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 4: That's right, and so let's set up to context here.

806
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: So Steve Wikoff, who is managing both the Ukraine file,

807
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: the Iran file, and the Gaza file for Trump.

808
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: The same day he's.

809
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 4: Dealing with a negotiations between Hamas and Israel over US ceasefire,

810
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 4: he sent a proposal to Iran around they're re entering.

811
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: The nuclear deal, in which Barack revealed it.

812
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 4: Axios reported the US conceded that Iran would be able

813
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 4: to enrich at a civilian level, so there'd be Titans

814
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: in spections. They'd have to blow up a bunch of

815
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 4: their kind of weaponized program. No new centrifuges, but they

816
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 4: would be able to pursue a civilian program.

817
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 3: That gets leaked to Revede.

818
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 4: Donald Trump then about five hours later, goes on truth

819
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 4: Social and says absolutely no enrichment happening. Forget it Mullis,

820
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 4: which then led head to Chuck Schumer injecting himself into

821
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 4: the negotiations.

822
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 13: This way, when it comes to negotiating with the terrorist

823
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 13: government of Iran, Trump's all over the lot. One day,

824
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 13: sounds tough, the next day he's backing off, and now

825
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 13: all of a sudden we find out that Witkoff and

826
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 13: Rubio are negotiation eating a secret side deal with Iran.

827
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 13: What kind of bull is this? They're going to sound

828
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 13: tough in public and then have a side deal. It

829
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 13: lets Iran get away with everything. That's outrageous. We need

830
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 13: to make that side deal public. Any side deal should

831
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 13: be before Congress and most importantly, the American people. If

832
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 13: Taco Trump is already folding, the American public should know

833
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 13: about it.

834
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 4: No side deals, So Tago Trump, that's Trump always chickens

835
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 4: out as the Wall Street phrase for it's okay to

836
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 4: you go along on Because Trump is going to back

837
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: off of his tariffs and now there's Schumer trying to

838
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 4: use it to egg on a war with Iran.

839
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 3: So it leads to this open question of what's actually

840
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 3: in the proposal?

841
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: It is there Richmond or is there not in Richmond?

842
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 4: And we'll roll Samuel Aarry in just one second, who's

843
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 4: a Palacinian who is very.

844
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 3: Well connected in.

845
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: And has connections to people who are familiar with the negotiations.

846
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 4: We interviewed him yesterday at drop site. We can roll

847
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 4: what he says about the enrichment, what's in? What's in

848
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 4: it regarding enrichment? But think about this, what are the

849
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 4: chances zero percent to one hundred percent that Donald Trump

850
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 4: has read Wittkoff's proposal that he delivered to Iran? Because

851
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 4: we're making news based off of what Trump says about

852
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 4: the proposal, h so we should know.

853
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: Do you think he read it?

854
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 5: Did you see the report last week that Telsea Gabbard

855
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 5: had been preparing to shift the daily intelligence briefing to

856
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 5: look like a cable news segment. So it's not in

857
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 5: you didn't see this, it's not You don't.

858
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: Have to read.

859
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 5: It, right, you don't have to read it, but that.

860
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 3: Do the like do it as a stand up from

861
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 3: a couch.

862
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 5: Trump is famously not super interested in written text, and

863
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 5: so that's it seems to me that through word of

864
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 5: mouth he could be getting different versions of what's in

865
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 5: the wit CO, what different spin in frame.

866
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 4: Exactly what Trump knows about that proposal is what he

867
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 4: was told about it.

868
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: No way he read it. Now about my life that

869
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 3: he did not read this proposal.

870
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: Samuel Arion, We asked him if he had any sense

871
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: of what was in it?

872
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: And this is C five, let's jump to that one.

873
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 4: What can we understand about what the actual offer is

874
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 4: from the US to the Iranians?

875
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 14: Right?

876
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean it's incredible that you have one person

877
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 15: who's acting like the effective Secretary state. That's Steve Wickoff,

878
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 15: someone has never been confirmed by anybody, has never been

879
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 15: accountable to anybody except the Trump That's I think that's

880
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 15: the first, probably in America's history, when it comes to

881
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 15: one person, one void having all these very crucial files.

882
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 15: You have the Gaza fhile, the Iran file and the

883
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 15: Ukraine file. Leaven that aside. My information, which is confirmed

884
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 15: through what has been reported by in Iran, is that

885
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 15: indeed the the the letter that was sent by the

886
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 15: Americans does concede and this is this is very much confirmed,

887
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 15: concedes the right of Iran to enritually. So that's that

888
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 15: spoint's already been conceded by the United States, which opened

889
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 15: the possibility of reaching an agreement. The second point, they

890
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 15: wanted to freeze the enrichment. The Americans wanted to freeze

891
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 15: their enrichment and offered that they could be a regional

892
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 15: hub by which they could be enrichment activities in which

893
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 15: Iran can participate. Now the details are not very clear,

894
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 15: but the Iranians are very much encouraged by the fact

895
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 15: that the Americans have already conceded the point that Iran

896
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 15: was not willing to walk away if it was willing

897
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 15: to walk away if that was never conceded. So the

898
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 15: fact that the Americans have really considered this point that

899
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 15: opens the passibility of an agreement. The Americans offered a

900
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 15: three point sixty seven percent I think, whether it's three

901
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 15: point sixty seven percent or more or less, obviously it's

902
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 15: going to be less than twenty percent depending on the application,

903
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 15: is something probably that is subject to negotiations. But the

904
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 15: Americans never talked about the ballistic program, the rocket program

905
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 15: or the support of other non state actors, particularly when

906
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 15: it comes to Israel Palestine. So having the fact that

907
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 15: the Americans are not tying or linking these objects, and

908
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 15: that the Americans conceded the point, the possibility of reaching

909
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 15: an agreement now is much much higher than it was

910
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 15: a week or ten days ago, or even months ago.

911
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 15: Will the Israelis accept this, Will they sabotage They will

912
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 15: definitely do everything in their power to sabotage this. But again,

913
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 15: because this is a state actor and the implications of

914
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 15: any military strike on Iran is going to be catastrophe

915
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 15: not only against US interest but globally it will be filled,

916
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 15: I think the Americans will be very very careful not

917
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 15: to allow the isoelists to subletype.

918
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 4: So you can imagine why the Israelies are upset about this,

919
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 4: not only as far as our you know, our sources

920
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 4: and Ravined understand it. It does allow some low level

921
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 4: of enrichment and does not stop them from supporting amas

922
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 4: nce A law, Iraqi militious. You know, the whole set

923
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 4: of proxies as Bela and the ballistic missile program is

924
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 4: something that is dear to the hearts of the israel government.

925
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: As well, because that is the delivery mechanism for the

926
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: most part.

927
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 4: This is so you can imagine why they're upset, and

928
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 4: humor is channeling that right.

929
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 5: New York Times this morning, the Trump administration is proposing

930
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 5: an arrangement that would allow Iran to continue enriching uranium

931
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 5: at low levels while the US and other countries work

932
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 5: out a more detailed plan intended to block Iran's path

933
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 5: to a nuclear weapon. The propose will announce to a

934
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 5: diplomatic bridge intended to maneuver beyond the current situation, but

935
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 5: the details remain big, and the two sides remain far

936
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 5: apart on some elements. So potentially what's emerging here is

937
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 5: a pitch from whitch cough for a bridge, like to say,

938
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 5: will allow low levels. But that's not the final deal.

939
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 5: That's our bridge deal, and who knows if the other

940
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 5: deal actually ever comes, But that seems to be potentially

941
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 5: what the administration is landing on as an effort to

942
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 5: sell this to the Lindsay Grahams of the world.

943
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, which they don't seem interested because also they don't

944
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 4: want No, they don't they don't want it to work

945
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 4: because they don't want sanctions lifted.

946
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 3: Like that, and that's the key.

947
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: That's another thing that Samuel Arien talked about is that

948
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 4: the key thing that isn't getting a lot of focus

949
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 4: here in the US is that Iran's major interest here

950
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 4: is not just the economic sanctions, which are increasing less

951
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 4: important than the various terror designations they want because if you,

952
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 4: as Cuba has found out, like the the fact that

953
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: Cuba is listed as this like state sponsor of terror

954
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 4: makes it so that they can't bank with anybody anywhere,

955
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 4: and they're like, what terrorism like, we're not doing any

956
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 4: terrorism like that, setting Cuba side.

957
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 5: So we'll talk to talk about that with one roal US.

958
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

959
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 4: But Iran, you can make a stronger case if you

960
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 4: believe that all of these organizations are terror groups which

961
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 4: the US designates them. They know Ron does support them,

962
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 4: so Ron wants, you know, those things lifted. And if

963
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 4: they don't get that lift, what's the point We're not

964
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 4: going to give up our turn to turn.

965
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: It if we don't get economic advantage out of it.

966
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 5: I mean, Chuck Schumer, actually I'm curious how you make

967
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 5: it the way that Chuck Schumer is framing this, because

968
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 5: there's the it's oppositional Trump framing. But we can put

969
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 5: C two on the screen. This is polling from the

970
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 5: Brookings Institution. Most respondents prefer a deal limiting Iran to

971
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 5: a peaceful nuclear program. Only fourteen percent of Americans back

972
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 5: military action to Roy Aron's nuclear program. So, thinking back

973
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 5: and how the Republican Party framed the Obama nuclear the

974
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 5: Obama around nuclear deal, the politics of this for Chuck

975
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 5: Schumer going after Taco Trump are also kind of interesting,

976
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 5: don't I don't know what they're quite what they're thinking

977
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 5: with this.

978
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 4: Ryan Well, either the utility or the futility of Taco

979
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 4: Trump is demonstrated in this moment because I actually used

980
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 4: the exact same phrase on TikTok.

981
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: I just Chuck Schumer and I are both you know, TikTok.

982
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 5: Natives, right, digital natives, and we both.

983
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 3: Went after Trump over this.

984
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 4: I went after him from the opposite side for undermining

985
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 4: Witcoff's offer and called him Taco Trump for his truth

986
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 4: social where he said there can be no in Richmond. Yeah,

987
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 4: because he's chickening out against Schumer and then Yahoo and

988
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 4: the rest are pushing on him. Schumer's calling him Taco

989
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 4: Trump for the original witcough proposal, right right, So Taco Trump,

990
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 4: it might not it might fall apart because it might

991
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 4: just be too useful. It's just you can just use

992
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 4: it constantly, and anything that like is that vague that

993
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 4: ends ends up getting drained a meaning and it loses

994
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 4: its pop.

995
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 5: Well, it also sounds just kind of whimsical. It makes

996
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 5: everyone think of tacos, which they love.

997
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 4: So putting something you love keeps being bothered by it,

998
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,280
Speaker 4: then it will it will maintain its resonance.

999
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 3: Well, he seems to not like it.

1000
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, so C three we can put

1001
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 5: on the screen. This is Access reporting that the DNC

1002
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 5: rented at Taco Trump to mock to mock Trump on

1003
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 5: the costumes.

1004
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 3: He's not going to like that.

1005
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 5: He's really not gonna like that. But at a certain

1006
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 5: point if it gets if it becomes like dem leadership cringe,

1007
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 5: then it probably does lose its power with Trump. It

1008
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 5: probably becomes a meme of how pathetic it is to

1009
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 5: see Chuck Schumer looking like he's literally in a nursing home,

1010
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 5: which I suppose literally is because he's in the Senate

1011
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,919
Speaker 5: in that video that we played, like saying Taco Trump

1012
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 5: to what egg Trump into a nuclear.

1013
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 4: Conflict and also putting tariffs on the entire world, Like

1014
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 4: this is what democrats are daring him to start a

1015
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 4: war with Iran and put tariffs, high tariffs on everybody

1016
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 4: everywhere around the world.

1017
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 5: Right, right, things are going great, could not possibly be

1018
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 5: going better. So all is all is well. But Chuck

1019
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 5: Schumer is a star.

1020
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: He is a star. You scroll back and see, like

1021
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 3: just the star power just pops off the screen, It

1022
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: jumps right out. How many takes that was? What do

1023
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: you think?

1024
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 5: That's a good question because is he reading off a prompter?

1025
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 5: Did he have to memorize lines? Do they have Q

1026
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 5: cards where she gets the bottom un?

1027
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 4: I think that I think he didn't. I think it

1028
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 4: was off the cuff.

1029
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 5: You should be able to do that.

1030
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 3: But it was third or fourth take.

1031
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's move on to Ukraine. Ryan.

1032
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 4: Yes, so we're on the brink of nuclear annihilation in

1033
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 4: right here in Washington everywhere around the world. As the

1034
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: escalatory ladder continues to be climbed by by Ukraine.

1035
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 3: We put this vo up here.

1036
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 4: This is footage of the crimea bridge boom going boom.

1037
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 3: This this was many months of planning. According to.

1038
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 4: Ukraine, they strapped enormous amounts of explosives as you can

1039
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 4: see there to to the the base of the bridge.

1040
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 4: Apparently it's back up and running. So maybe we can

1041
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 4: take a step down.

1042
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 5: One of the more important bridges.

1043
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 3: Yes, the Crimea Bridge.

1044
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 4: It's a it's not just a prize infrastructure project of Putin,

1045
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 4: but you know, economically and culturally, it's extremely important for

1046
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 4: connecting you know, Crimea with.

1047
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 3: The say, the rest of Russia.

1048
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 4: At this point, this comes after this you know wild

1049
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 4: drone attack that went deep into Syria. Going after the

1050
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 4: the Russian bombers that are used. You know that the

1051
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 4: Ukrainians will say we hit them because they're used for

1052
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 4: you know, bombing targets deep inside Ukraine. UH critics of

1053
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 4: the operations say they're a central part of Russia's nuclear arsenal,

1054
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 4: and you are playing with nuclear fire by going there.

1055
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 4: One of those is UH retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, who

1056
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 4: was asked about how, you know what what he sees

1057
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 4: as the risks of this Ukrainian attack, and he had

1058
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 4: a rather chilling response.

1059
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 14: We can roll that sort of set up an analogy

1060
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 14: Mexico or Canada or any third party, particularly one that

1061
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 14: was approximate to our borders, launching missiles that hit Whiteman

1062
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 14: Air Force Base and destroyed B two bombers, or hit

1063
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 14: Barstow in Louisiana, or mine and destroy'd be fifty two bombers,

1064
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 14: or came in on Growton, Connecticut where a ballistic missile

1065
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 14: submarine was being serviced and hit it. These are things

1066
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 14: that during the Cold War we swore to each other

1067
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 14: Moscow and Washington that we would never do. These are

1068
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 14: things that are so destabilizing that Putin would be in

1069
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 14: his every right with regard to all the lessons we

1070
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 14: have learned and their many to attack and to attack

1071
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 14: with nuclear weapons and to say to the rest of

1072
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 14: the world they provoked me.

1073
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 3: They surely did.

1074
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 14: And I'm not losing my devices for responding should I

1075
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 14: be really provoked by a first strike. And that's what

1076
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 14: you're talking about. Never never hit the assets that your

1077
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 14: nuclear armed enemy needs to assess whether or not you're

1078
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 14: attacking them. That's a no no, Always been a no no.

1079
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 16: No.

1080
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 14: One disputed that in Moscow or Washing, earn it, for

1081
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 14: that matter, in the other capitals in.

1082
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: The world, see only.

1083
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 4: I don't think that this justifies a nuclear response from Boutin.

1084
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 4: But I don't like the idea that we're even in

1085
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 4: the area. Yeah, of course where it's an open questions,

1086
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 4: like we should try to avoid being in the area

1087
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 4: the gray zone of nuclear response.

1088
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 5: It's completely insane. Just slept walk directly into it. And

1089
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 5: right now on the hill today Richard Blumenthal, Lindsey Graham,

1090
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 5: our meeting.

1091
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 3: They're back in the US.

1092
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 5: They're back here and meeting with a top advisor to

1093
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 5: Zelenski actually today and pushing the sanctions past package and

1094
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 5: who knows what else.

1095
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 3: The other thing they were just in Ukraine, they were

1096
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 3: just and cheering them on.

1097
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you're demanding more support from Trump, who's obviously

1098
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 5: frustrated with Putin and not without reason in the peace process,

1099
00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 5: of course, but right the ease with which I mean

1100
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 5: Ukraine said that operation took several months according to CNN.

1101
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 5: It's crazy to me that when you watch the video

1102
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 5: you realize, I mean it just it seems like that

1103
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 5: should be a much harder target to hit him, and

1104
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 5: it's important.

1105
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 4: Not underwater, and you know they also hit it, you know,

1106
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 4: several months ago. If you remember, there was a footage

1107
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 4: of the car like you're just driving along and boom

1108
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 4: all of.

1109
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 5: A sudden, which is why it's kind of wild that

1110
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 5: they're able to pull it off after several months. I mean,

1111
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 5: that's one of the most obvious targets. But I think

1112
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 5: part of what's it's so obviously provocative to do that

1113
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 5: to the bridge, To do that to that bridge, so

1114
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 5: obviously provocative.

1115
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 4: So yes, it's wild, it really well, these talks are

1116
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 4: going on, Tar talks are going on.

1117
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 5: Ye. Well, and you can't that operation that we covered

1118
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 5: a Monday that went you know, more than three thousand

1119
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 5: miles from Kievan, Russia. That was, of course, literally the

1120
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 5: day before peace talks and assemble. So it's a message obviously,

1121
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 5: and they'd been getting hit really hard in the days

1122
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 5: leading up to it. But Ryan, we were hearing from

1123
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 5: Donald Trump for however long, that he would broke her

1124
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 5: a peace deal within twenty four hours. We are now

1125
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 5: pushing into the six month of his presidency and it's

1126
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 5: getting worse. Yeah, it's not getting closer at all.

1127
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1128
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 4: And meanwhile, there seems to be some operation happening against

1129
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 4: Darren Beattie, who was a top State Department official and

1130
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 4: one of the one of the key guys in pushing

1131
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 4: back against one of the key guys in what you

1132
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 4: call like the peace camp and.

1133
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 5: The non interventionist Yeah. Yeah, he'd be sort of decried

1134
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 5: as an isolationist from the Lindsay Graham faction.

1135
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 4: Yes, And so he's getting hit in the Telegraph with

1136
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 4: this With this article, the headline is Trump official who

1137
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 4: shut down Counter Russia agency has links to Kremlin.

1138
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 3: Darren Beattie, who.

1139
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 4: Alarmed the State Department with his pro Moscow views, is

1140
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 4: married to a woman whose uncle has ties to Vladimir Putin.

1141
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 4: By the way, as a former tabloid reporter at the

1142
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 4: when I was at Tough Post, the word tie anytime

1143
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 4: you see the word ties.

1144
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 3: Or links, that is what's called a.

1145
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 4: Kind of get out of defamation jail free guard because

1146
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 4: think about the word link.

1147
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 3: Yep, you're linked to everything.

1148
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 5: We are linked to Putin by doing this segment.

1149
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 4: We're linked, yes, breaking Points, linked to Putin, yes, or untied.

1150
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 5: To Putin, LinkedIn tie, LinkedIn tid Yes.

1151
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: So we have a statement from the State Department here.

1152
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is an exclusive statement to Breaking Points from

1153
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 5: the State Department that says it isn't a coincidence that

1154
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 5: these attacks on Durn Batty are servicing as the administration

1155
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 5: is working to fight censorship domestically and champion free speech

1156
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 5: around the world. We will get back to that in

1157
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 5: just a moment. These fake news outlets are so desperate

1158
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 5: to keep these censorship tactics alive and discredit the transparency initiative,

1159
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 5: they are publishing falsemeres on respective respected and effective employee

1160
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 5: at the State Department. Now. Der Baty is an enormously

1161
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 5: controversial person who was working in the sort of media

1162
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 5: punditry space before being plucked into the State Department. In

1163
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 5: this administration, he had worked in the White House.

1164
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: I fired for speaking at like a white nationalist conference.

1165
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 5: Right from the first Trump White House, right, yeah, exactly,

1166
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 5: and then it is brought in the second administration. Ruffles

1167
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 5: feathers for sure in the but especially among the interventionist

1168
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 5: crowd because they are probably more offended by his questioning

1169
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 5: of interventionism.

1170
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 3: The white nationalism whatever.

1171
01:01:54,480 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 5: It's coalition, Yeah, it's coalition. So anyway, we confirmed the

1172
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 5: State Department says passed all of his background checks. So

1173
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 5: this innu window about his wife and her uncle. It's interesting, Ryan,

1174
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 5: because to work in a key position in the State

1175
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 5: Department actually the Biden State Department went through this with

1176
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 5: what's his name, Rob and Iran stuff. No, that was Trump,

1177
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 5: but Rob Valley on Iran stuff. And it did eventually

1178
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 5: come out that he had some interesting links and ties.

1179
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 5: But he was obviously, oh interesting, you'd obviously be be vetted.

1180
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 5: So his dinner and baby's wife gave a statement to

1181
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 5: The Times, the UK Times quote, far from being Kremlin aligned,

1182
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 5: Putin publicly denounced my uncle and his ownership stake in

1183
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 5: bosh Kirsta, where upon the Putin government stole his company

1184
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 5: from him. He has lived in exile for Russia for

1185
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 5: five years. I'm deeply disappointed that the Telegraph would omit

1186
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 5: these material and publicly discoverable facts that completely undermine the

1187
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 5: suggestion that my uncle or I am Kremlin linked, which

1188
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 5: is the narrative backbone of the entire piece.

1189
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: Links linked to the Kremlin by being adversaries.

1190
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 5: It is.

1191
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: So we'll find out.

1192
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 4: If this is a get out of defamation jail or not.

1193
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 4: Because I met you know, this is the UK. It's

1194
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 4: much easier to get sued, it's much easier to win

1195
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 4: acclaim than it is here in the US. So yeah,

1196
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 4: like so right, the point is yeah, there is a

1197
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 4: connection between her uncle, which is like, come on, uncle, yeah, now,

1198
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 4: now you're responsible not just for what you do, not

1199
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 4: just for your for what your wife does, but for

1200
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 4: what no wife's uncle does.

1201
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 3: And it turns out the wife's uncle.

1202
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 4: Was actually beefing with Putin over some oligarch stuff.

1203
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 5: Mm hmmmm hmm. And that's not really in the article,

1204
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 5: is yeah, so Ran it is amusing to see the

1205
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 5: State Department and being himself in his post on X said,

1206
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 5: for anyone who passionately supports President Trump and fights to

1207
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 5: advances of Jennifer the American people, media hit pieces come

1208
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 5: with the territory. Interestingly, that echoes the exclusive statement that

1209
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 5: we got from the State Department, which is suggesting that

1210
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 5: this is a hit piece timed specifically because of what's

1211
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 5: happening in Ukraine right now. And you read the piece

1212
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 5: and can even take issue with Darren Beattie working in

1213
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 5: the State Department, can take issue with his views. I

1214
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 5: actually think that it is laden with innuendo and probably

1215
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 5: timed exactly as they're implying it.

1216
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it probably is, but we shouldn't move on without

1217
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 4: just taking a moment to dwell on the ability of

1218
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 4: the State Department and Marco Rubio's people to apparently hold

1219
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 4: two completely contradictory things in their head at the exact

1220
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 4: same time. One is that their administration, quote is working

1221
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 4: to fight censorship domestically and champion free speech around the world.

1222
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 4: You're like, I'm sorry, you're doing what You're fighting censorship

1223
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 4: domestically by going through the social media of every college

1224
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 4: student and then trying to find anybody who's here on

1225
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 4: a visa.

1226
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 5: If every non citizen college student apparently, and.

1227
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you've got a permanent resident who protested Israel's

1228
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 4: actions at Columbia, Mood Khalil, a Green card holder married

1229
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 4: to an American citizen who has an American citizen daughter

1230
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 4: who he has never seen because he is behind bars

1231
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 4: for his speech.

1232
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 3: And you every day are.

1233
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 4: Fighting censorship, Like okay, anyway, just that they could say,

1234
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 4: like the fact that they could type that up and

1235
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 4: nobody's like, this kind of come off weird to like

1236
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 4: the whole world who sees what we're doing every day.

1237
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 5: Well, it's important from their perspective messaging wise that they

1238
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 5: actually do lean into that, because their contention, it's not

1239
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 5: from their perspective morally inconsistent because their contention is that

1240
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 5: it's speech for US citizens, And so they've done things

1241
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 5: like get rid of State Department contracts with the Global

1242
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 5: Engagement Center and groups that have designed these censorship apparatus,

1243
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 5: and they what was it just last week, said that

1244
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 5: they were no longer giving visas to people who had

1245
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 5: sought to interfere with the free speech rights of Americans.

1246
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 5: So again, I disagree obviously with the os Turk and

1247
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 5: Khalil cases and the way the State Department has handled those.

1248
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 5: We've said that, We've covered that many times. But I

1249
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 5: think from their perspective, you have to lean all the

1250
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 5: way into saying that we just totally brazenly are champions

1251
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 5: of free speech, because otherwise it would imply that they

1252
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 5: think they actually are curtailing free speech.

1253
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 4: And what's amazing, though, is if you think about that,

1254
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 4: let's take let's take their explanation at face value and

1255
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 4: pretend it is on the up and up. They're saying, yeah, Okay,

1256
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 4: what we are concerned about is the speech of American citizens.

1257
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 4: If you're a foreigner here in our country, that is

1258
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 4: a privilege.

1259
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 3: Just and shut up. We don't want to hear any

1260
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 3: criticism from you.

1261
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 4: At the same time, they're telling other countries, if an

1262
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 4: American citizen is in your country, the First Amendment applies

1263
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 4: to them in your country, and they are not subject

1264
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 4: to your censorship laws.

1265
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 3: Your people, if.

1266
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 4: They come to our country, cannot criticize Israel and they

1267
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 4: are subject to our censorship rules. But when our people

1268
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 4: come to your country, they cannot be censored. Not that

1269
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 4: they would try to make anything consistent, but like, what's

1270
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 4: the principle there under which their citizens are not entitled

1271
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 4: to beach rights in our country, but we, who are

1272
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 4: the free speech champions of the world, insist that ours

1273
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 4: are entitled to it in your country.

1274
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, the really important point is about

1275
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 5: that principle period. Because the argument that Mahmu Khalil or

1276
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 5: Mesa Ostrik are undermining the US foreign policy goals, which

1277
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 5: is the provision that Mark Rubio has used to justify

1278
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 5: revoking the visas the principle of their speech, which in

1279
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 5: Ostrich's case was a pro bds op ed about the

1280
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 5: college student government and the administration at toughts that that

1281
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 5: is somehow undermining the foreign policy of the United States,

1282
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 5: interfering with the foreign policy of the United States. Now

1283
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 5: the powers of that law are broad and actually probably

1284
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 5: should be reconsidered periods. Judge Trump said, yeah, let alone

1285
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 5: used but all those to say, the principle is that

1286
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 5: it is beyond the pale to be critical of Israel

1287
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,879
Speaker 5: because it's hurting the foreign policy goals of the United States.

1288
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 5: And I think what you're getting into there is criticism

1289
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 5: of Israel being anti Semitic, which is something of course

1290
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 5: that has been passed in bills in Congress before that

1291
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 5: Anti Zionism is anti Semitism and is a common refrain.

1292
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 5: And that's not free speech for Americans either, even though

1293
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 5: it's being applied in this case to people who aren't

1294
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 5: American citizens. The implications down the line are setting the

1295
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 5: stage for more censorship of American citizens.

1296
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 4: And if we can tell other countries know what their

1297
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 4: speech codes and laws need to be with regard to

1298
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 4: American citizens, can we tell other countries that they must

1299
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 4: ban criticism of Israel within their countries too. Not to

1300
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 4: give ideas to anybody, but like just I mean, most

1301
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 4: of them don't need that idea. That's already they've already

1302
01:09:58,560 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 4: gone down that road.

1303
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 5: If they end up up getting rid of Darren Beatty.

1304
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 5: They can bring you in. There'll be a job open,

1305
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 5: you can come in.

1306
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 4: Well, Beattie and I have both interviewed in ron Khan.

1307
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 4: Oh really, he did the last interview with him, Ron

1308
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 4: Khan before he was jailed. BET's very good on Pakistan.

1309
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 5: Oh, that's that's quite interesting. He's an eccentric thinker.

1310
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 3: This is undoubtedly true statement I say.

1311
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 5: I was surprised when they brought even I was surprised

1312
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 5: when they brought him, all right, as the kids say, based.

1313
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not.

1314
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 4: I don't think that Rubio was involved in bringing him in,

1315
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 4: to put it gently right, likely.

1316
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 5: Not, Maybe Michael Anton and those guys. I don't know.

1317
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 5: That's a good question. We'll see. All right. Let's move

1318
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 5: on to Joy Reid. Ryan House did MSNBC anchor. Joy

1319
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 5: Reid is sharing more of her thoughts about why she

1320
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 5: ended up getting the act just a couple of months ago.

1321
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 5: Let's roll this first clip of Joy read in conversation

1322
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 5: with Katie Kirk.

1323
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 16: I got to you know, NBC and I Twitter back

1324
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 16: in two thousand. I think I joined an eight or

1325
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 16: nine and the bosses were horrified, and anytime I would

1326
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:15,759
Speaker 16: tweet anything, I would get calls I would get.

1327
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 5: Please get off Twitter. We hate it.

1328
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 16: They just they don't like that it pulls their talent

1329
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 16: and their reporters out of their control because now you're

1330
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,639
Speaker 16: not running what you're tweeting through standards and practices. It's

1331
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 16: giving your personality directly to the audience, which they don't

1332
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 16: like because it's no longer managed and curated by them,

1333
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 16: and they don't want people breaking news.

1334
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 5: I'm just not realizing that Katie Kirk has that famous

1335
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 5: picture of Joan Didion framed behind her on her podcast set,

1336
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 5: which is just to be fair, I have a Joan

1337
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 5: Diddion book on our set back here, but that's just

1338
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 5: Katie Kirk with the Joan Didion portrait. Is something just

1339
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 5: really getting under my skin this morning, Ryan, But that's

1340
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 5: neither here nor there, Joy.

1341
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 3: Read guest hosts right while Sager's.

1342
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 5: Out Katie Kirk, Kirk or Joy Read right, Hey, hey,

1343
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 5: you bring your men, see what happens. It's a it's

1344
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 5: a fine line between I've always said this, between Katie

1345
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 5: Kirk and Sager and Jetty they share many similarities. Yeah,

1346
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 5: so it's something I think about now be fun together, Yes, yes,

1347
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 5: something to somebody to think about producers. I know you're listening,

1348
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 5: but joy Read makes a fairly interesting case in this clip,

1349
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 5: by the way, and I will not be rescinding any

1350
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 5: of my criticisms of joy Read whatsoever. But she makes

1351
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 5: an interesting case about MSNBC in this clip, which is

1352
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 5: that she didn't have the worst ratings at MSNBC, which

1353
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 5: is a low bar. By the way, she says to

1354
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 5: Katie Kirk, I wasn't told the ratings were terrible. It's

1355
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 5: something you did. You tweeted a terrible thing. She said.

1356
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 5: She had been being quote extra careful on social media

1357
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 5: at the time because there was a real anxiety, she

1358
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 5: said about it, and that's kind of interesting. She says,

1359
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 5: it wasn't the ratings because we had just a ratings

1360
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 5: meeting a couple of weeks before that, talking about the

1361
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 5: fact that our show, other than Rachel Mattow, we were

1362
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 5: down the least after Tramp's the election win. So being

1363
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 5: down the least, but it's actually an interesting point because

1364
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 5: it's not as though, now that we have a few

1365
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 5: months in hindsight, it is not as though MSNBC is

1366
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 5: actually trying to change its brand. It's not as though

1367
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 5: so when I saw the firing of Joy Reid, and

1368
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 5: I was like, this is this is interesting because Joy

1369
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 5: Reid was I think symbolically a very powerful representation of

1370
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 5: and maybe we disagree on this, but where MSNBC went

1371
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 5: wrong during the Trump years, which was this kind of

1372
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 5: sanctimonious doubling down on being the voice of truth and

1373
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 5: facts and nobody else could possibly or nobody who disagrees

1374
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 5: with me is on the side of truth or facts.

1375
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 5: I'm on the side of truth or facts, and I

1376
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 5: will tell you what's right and what's wrong. And I

1377
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 5: thought maybe that they were getting rid of Joy Reid

1378
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 5: because they were trying, you know, however ham fistedly to

1379
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,759
Speaker 5: go in a different direction. But they're definitely not really

1380
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,599
Speaker 5: doing that. They haven't really made any significant changes.

1381
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't Joy as being.

1382
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 4: Differentiating herself in that crowd of people during the first

1383
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,879
Speaker 4: Trump You think she had the same kind of approach

1384
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:24,520
Speaker 4: as almost all of them did. The thing that did

1385
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,520
Speaker 4: differentiate her from the pack was that she was consistently

1386
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 4: critical of.

1387
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 3: Israel's assault on Gaza.

1388
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 4: Like that was If you try to think about the

1389
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 4: things that make her different than other hosts, either on

1390
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 4: CNN or MSNBC, that's the only one that I can

1391
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 4: think of.

1392
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 5: So she doesn't cite that. She says, quote, I'm a

1393
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 5: black woman doing the thing, you know what I mean,

1394
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,799
Speaker 5: And so I'm not different from Mattow or Nicole Wallace.

1395
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 5: But quote, I think that there's a difference for Trump

1396
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 5: and hearing the kinds of criticism, specifically out of a

1397
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 5: black woman.

1398
01:14:58,200 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 3: That is true, it.

1399
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 5: Bothers them in a way, doesn't bother him like anything else.

1400
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 5: She says there's a fear of him, implying at MSNBC,

1401
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 5: we're seeing it everywhere. Uh now, I'll have.

1402
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 3: To think she's right about that. Like, sorry, Trump people,

1403
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 3: I think she.

1404
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,480
Speaker 5: Is really that Trump has some issue.

1405
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 4: Black women being critical of him hits harder for him

1406
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 4: than like a Rachel Maddow or certainly hits harder than

1407
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 4: like a white guy, especially good looking white.

1408
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 5: Well, I guess this is a little bit different. But

1409
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 5: the man he hates more than anyone else is Chuck Todd.

1410
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 5: Chuck Todd seems to be just about anyone he likes.

1411
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 4: Some of the other guys like who wrote the Enemy

1412
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 4: of the People book, people book, the CNN guy Jim Acosta.

1413
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like he loves you can tell he loves.

1414
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 5: He loves going back and forth with Jim Acosta.

1415
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, because he's that's a handsome newsman right there, you're

1416
01:15:58,840 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 4: fake news.

1417
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,759
Speaker 5: To isn't exactly out of central casting.

1418
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,799
Speaker 4: True, he wants them out of central casting. He wants

1419
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 4: his enemies to be good looking white eyes.

1420
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 5: Now remind me. So I'm looking at this right now

1421
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 5: because MSNBC was spun off of so Comcast spun off

1422
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 5: its portfolio of cable news networks and that includes MSNBC.

1423
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 5: This was announced back in November. Reid was let go.

1424
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 5: That was what earlier the spring, roughly around March ish.

1425
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,799
Speaker 5: So that's why at the time I thought maybe MSNBC

1426
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 5: was just going in a different direction, which by the way,

1427
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 5: would mean it actually would mean getting rid of Nicole

1428
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 5: Wallace or at least like turning down the volume on

1429
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 5: the entire the Scarborough, the Scarborough Brazizinski disaster, which is I.

1430
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 3: Know, like they all have to go, right, Yeah, I mean.

1431
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 5: If they're trying to brand differently, at least you would.

1432
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 5: But but so she's saying she's basically lumping in the

1433
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 5: CBS settlement and other settlements, what ABC's Stephanopolis settlement and

1434
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 5: implying that MSNBC might have a similar fear.

1435
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 3: Now, which I think is also true.

1436
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 5: It's interesting because it's it's a question of whether Comcast

1437
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 5: still has so where they are in the process of

1438
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 5: actually spinning MSNBC off, is Comcast is there is there

1439
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 5: implication that Comcast is afraid or is it the MSNBC.

1440
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 5: Because MSNBC is a left of center network, I don't

1441
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 5: think would be particularly afraid unless they're trying to get sold.

1442
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 5: Because that was another thing. Elon Musk was flirting with

1443
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 5: the possibility that maybe he would buy MSNBC. But you

1444
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 5: could easily see another like right wing billionaire doesn't have

1445
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 5: to be Elon Musk swooping in and buying MSNBC. And

1446
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 5: then at the time if they were trying to like

1447
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 5: ready it as a property for an acquisition, maybe that's

1448
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,000
Speaker 5: what's going on, or maybe it's just hard to work with.

1449
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was the Comcast stuff.

1450
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 4: Like Comcast is a terrible business whose the entire existence

1451
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 4: depends on large s for from the government regulatory for

1452
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 4: the most part, and so that is like the most

1453
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:10,759
Speaker 4: vulnerable kind of company. So you don't want to anger

1454
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 4: the king, you know, if you depend on the king.

1455
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 5: I don't know. I just Joey read. Yeah, I guess

1456
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 5: we'd probably disagree on this, but I've found her to

1457
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 5: be one of the more difficult, one of the representations

1458
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 5: of a lot of the stuff that went wrong during

1459
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 5: Trump era journalism, and to her credit, one of the

1460
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 5: more interesting things she did. She would have conservatives, right wingers,

1461
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:39,839
Speaker 5: mega people on and she made compelling television because she fought,

1462
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 5: and that's something that I think people like Rachel Mattow

1463
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 5: and Chris Hayes and Nicole Wallace I suppose should do

1464
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 5: more of. So I definitely give her credit for I agree.

1465
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 4: Actually, I think the blue Maga stuff is totally fine

1466
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 4: to do as as content if you're going to have

1467
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 4: people arguing with you on there.

1468
01:18:58,479 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 3: Right now, it's not my kind of thing.

1469
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 4: It's not what I would want to watch, but like,

1470
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 4: if you're going to debate it out with people and

1471
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 4: then the fine, it's it's the it's the blue Maga

1472
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,560
Speaker 4: echo chamber stuff that becomes really corrosive.

1473
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree with that. Rachel Mattow I think has

1474
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 5: sadly fallen prey to though. I just think Rachel Matto

1475
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 5: is really smart and talented journalist and has.

1476
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 4: Her monologues are always the long, like ten minute long

1477
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 4: thing she does the top.

1478
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was fun.

1479
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 5: Well, they were also like masterfully crafted and the writing

1480
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 5: was like extremely compelling if you were watching some of those.

1481
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 3: Where is this going? Where's this going?

1482
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 2: Right?

1483
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 5: The Trump one monologue that Rachel Mattow would do, which

1484
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 5: became kind of famous or infamous, but probably infamous after

1485
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 5: she claimed to have Trump's tax returns and all of

1486
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 5: Washington was watching. I even watched that, Yeah, I mean

1487
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 5: that night and it was like Heraldo at the vault

1488
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 5: by the end of it, like she had her scoop

1489
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 5: was like way over hyped what she actually had. But

1490
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 5: the writing was just masterful. So it's sad when people

1491
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 5: get kind of sucked into the universe where they just

1492
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 5: have purged anyone who might disagree. I think the best

1493
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 5: segment on the debate between porn, the debate over whether

1494
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 5: there's porn in schools and the library controversies is between

1495
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 5: Joy Read and Tiffany Justice on Joy Reads on the

1496
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 5: NBC Show, And I recommend everybody watch that.

1497
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 4: It's good because like it forces them both to learn

1498
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 4: what the other side knows and understands and thinks and.

1499
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 3: That before you can rebut it.

1500
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1501
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 4: So up next, we've got Wanda vid Rojas, who's that conservative,

1502
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:35,600
Speaker 4: like kind of a heterodox conservative.

1503
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 5: I don't even know.

1504
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 4: If writer when it comes to Latin American politics roughly.

1505
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 5: I mean he's conservative on immigration policies. I wonder we

1506
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,680
Speaker 5: maybe we should ask him how he sees himself. But

1507
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 5: he does fantastically interesting and heterodox coverage of Latin American

1508
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 5: politics from Ecuador to Venezuela, to Cuba and to Mexico

1509
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 5: as well, and has been on a tear recently with

1510
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 5: some interesting coverage of Claudia Schinbaum front of the show

1511
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 5: and also the world friend of the World Venezuela. We

1512
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,000
Speaker 5: particularly want to dive into a story he's written on

1513
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 5: Venezuela because happening under the surface Parklading, under the surface

1514
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 5: of this administration is a divide over how to approach

1515
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 5: Venezuela between like the Rick Gurnell, Laura Lumer camp and

1516
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 5: the old school cold Warriors. So we're going to dive

1517
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 5: into all that with Wanda vid Ross right after this.

1518
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 5: As promised, we're joined now by Wanda vid Rojas, who

1519
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 5: writes at Compact one. Thank you for joining us.

1520
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me guys.

1521
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 5: Well, let's start with F two, which is a recent

1522
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 5: piece that you wrote for Compact that both Ryan and

1523
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 5: I found really interesting. The headline is Laura Lumer is

1524
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 5: right about Venezuela. But the story behind that and what

1525
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 5: exactly Laura Lumer is right about is really important because

1526
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 5: just last week there was significant controversy over whether Chevron

1527
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 5: should get a real authorization to continue doing drilling in

1528
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 5: Venezuela basically, and that pitted Rick Grenell against the Marca

1529
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:15,679
Speaker 5: Rubio kind of cold warrior camp, and in a really

1530
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 5: interesting way because we hear from Rubio. Actually I literally

1531
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 5: just heard from Rubio last night at the American Compass

1532
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:26,080
Speaker 5: Gallus saying that people are still clinging to the Cold War,

1533
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:29,600
Speaker 5: that we had these Cold War policies meant to prevent uprisings,

1534
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 5: and then we kept those Cold War policies going forward,

1535
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 5: and you can you started assume in that context he

1536
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 5: was speaking generally, but that he was thinking about Ukraine

1537
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 5: in particular. But Venezuela and Cuba, which we're going to

1538
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 5: talk about as well, are good examples of this too.

1539
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 5: So one, can you tell us a bit about what's

1540
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 5: percolating under the surface of the Trump administration as it

1541
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 5: relates to Venezuela and maybe more broadly Latin America, because

1542
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:57,640
Speaker 5: this is I think a really really important and underappreciated

1543
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 5: part of what's happening over at state.

1544
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a great point.

1545
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 17: I mean, now that I think about, I saw that

1546
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 17: common elsewhere from Rubio as well. But yeah, that definitely

1547
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 17: doesn't apply to Latin America for him. You know, he's

1548
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 17: an old school Miami Hawk and his former constituents here

1549
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 17: in the state of Florida. I live in Fort Lauderdale.

1550
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 17: A lot of the only thing they care about is

1551
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 17: regime change in Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. And so you

1552
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 17: have this tug of war within the administration that's really

1553
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:33,280
Speaker 17: interesting between you know, hawks like him, and then like

1554
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 17: in Congress there's the three Republican representatives for South Florida,

1555
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 17: madri Madea, Elvida Sare and Carlos Emenes and yeah, all,

1556
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 17: like I said, all they care about is regime change,

1557
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 17: and so any like new sanctions, any like you know,

1558
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:58,759
Speaker 17: sort of favors or benefits that Venezuela, Cuba could.

1559
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 7: Get in this case, since twenty twenty two.

1560
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 17: Biden has allowed Chevron to pump oil in Venezuela. They

1561
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 17: have a license which allows them, you know, to explore

1562
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 17: in Venezuelan waters, and both administrations to get around the

1563
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 17: same time for a long time, right, And when Trump

1564
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 17: got in, I just assumed that he, you know, they

1565
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 17: would just you know, go maximum pressure again on Venezuela.

1566
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 17: But what we saw is that the immigration hawks actually

1567
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 17: were open to dialogue because they wanted to be able

1568
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 17: to de poor people direct directly to Venezuela, which you know,

1569
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 17: they they weren't authorizing.

1570
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:43,920
Speaker 5: They're voting back and forth.

1571
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 7: Thies I was.

1572
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 5: Going to say one just quickly, the TPS revocation of

1573
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 5: that status temporary. Yeah, of course, three hundred and fifty

1574
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:59,599
Speaker 5: thousand Venezuelans, so the number of deportations that they require

1575
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,839
Speaker 5: cooperation with Venezuela otherwise they need to find other countries

1576
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 5: to send literally tens of thousands of people to. That's

1577
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 5: how high stakes it is for them, exactly.

1578
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's super urgent.

1579
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 17: And so you've had this tug of war between the

1580
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 17: because there's these slim margins in the House of Representatives,

1581
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 17: they just have a two seed majority, so those three

1582
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:26,520
Speaker 17: congressmen can sink basically anything that they want. So in February,

1583
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 17: they threatened to not vote for what was the continuing resolution,

1584
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 17: the like February.

1585
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:33,959
Speaker 3: Budget when there's gonna be a shutdown.

1586
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 17: So the administration said, oh, okay, we're not gonna or

1587
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 17: renew Chevron's license. Then they backpedaled and actually did, and

1588
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 17: then so the Hawks got upset, and uh, you.

1589
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 7: Know, we could talk about that more in depth.

1590
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 4: Well, the key moment comes when Venice, when they when

1591
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 4: they do pull the license, I guess you know. However, briefly,

1592
01:25:56,960 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 4: Venezuela then pauses taking deportation flights and then the Trump

1593
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 4: administration sends them to Al Salvador instead.

1594
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, to walk through how.

1595
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 4: This like pivotal moment in the Trump administration's immigration and

1596
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 4: foreign policy ends up getting decided by these kind of

1597
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:24,880
Speaker 4: three counter revolutionary like South Florida Republicans who could not

1598
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 4: be more the kind of counter to America. First, if

1599
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 4: you try to design it in a lab like that

1600
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 4: they are, they are very explicit that their most important

1601
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 4: priority is Cuba, and then Venezuela, yeah, and then and

1602
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 4: then Nicarwaga and then eventually at some point you get

1603
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 4: down to the North American country of the United States

1604
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:46,919
Speaker 4: of America.

1605
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's horrible because it was definitely a contributing factor.

1606
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 17: I mean, you know, Steven Miller doesn't need all that

1607
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 17: much help to do his own psycho stuff. But you know,

1608
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 17: they they were for like a brief period, a few

1609
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,960
Speaker 17: weeks because in days after Trump assumed office, they cut

1610
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 17: this deal with Maduro. Okay, you know, we'll renew of

1611
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:15,599
Speaker 17: the license if you agree to take deportees. And they

1612
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,759
Speaker 17: did for a time. Then they renagged and so, okay,

1613
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 17: we can't send people to Venezuela. All right, well let's

1614
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 17: send them, send them to El Salvador. And was really

1615
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 17: horrible is that? At least, according to multiple investigations, one

1616
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 17: from The New York Times another from ABC, at least

1617
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,520
Speaker 17: two hundred of the two hundred and thirty eight Venezuelans

1618
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 17: that they sent to a maximum security gang prison in

1619
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 17: El Salvador had no criminal records in the US and Columbia, Chile, Peru,

1620
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 17: a ton of different countries.

1621
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 7: They were really thorough.

1622
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 17: The administration denies this, but they also have refused to

1623
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 17: release the names or the you know, supposedly Hanu's crimes

1624
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:57,800
Speaker 17: that these people committed. To be fair, around like two

1625
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:04,040
Speaker 17: dozen actually had credible, you know, associations as being a

1626
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 17: gang numbers and committed crimes. Yeah, but the I mean,

1627
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 17: this is just completely incompetent, and it's like, why would

1628
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 17: they do this? If you know, I would dispute the

1629
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 17: use of the Alien Enemies Act because you know, they

1630
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 17: said that that you know, they were terrorists and that

1631
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 17: Venezuela's conducting this invasion of the US through what uh

1632
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 17: So I think that you know, using Alien Enemies Act

1633
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 17: is wrong. But at least if they sent actual criminals,

1634
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 17: you could say, okay, all right, well why are we

1635
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:36,400
Speaker 17: going to cry over criminals? And it just completely undermines

1636
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,919
Speaker 17: their case. And it's also been a huge boon to Maduro,

1637
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 17: like you know, he just goes out on TV. It's like,

1638
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 17: look at this, these forced disappearances to El Salvador. Look

1639
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:49,639
Speaker 17: at how complicit the Venezuelan opposition is. And he's right

1640
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 17: because the Venezuelan opposition can't criticize Trump because he's their

1641
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,600
Speaker 17: chief political and financial backers. So it's been a colossal

1642
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 17: debacle where lumor comes in, that's really funny is that

1643
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 17: her and this Florida businessman wanted to renew the Chevron's

1644
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 17: license because they're saying, hey, you know, Trump has this

1645
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 17: agenda of energy abundance, we should be exploiting Venezuela's oil,

1646
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 17: not in not China because most of Venezuela's oil exports

1647
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 17: go to China. Obviously, she doesn't really care about, you know,

1648
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 17: the deportations at El Salvado or anything like that. But

1649
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 17: you know, in a very narrow sense, she's you know,

1650
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 17: completely right. I mean, on its own term, sanctions have

1651
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 17: not achieved their intended goal of regime change, and it's

1652
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 17: just not going to happen, So why are we doing this?

1653
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 17: It just makes Venezuela more miserable. And yet, if anything,

1654
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 17: improving conditions.

1655
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 7: There by allowing more economic activity, would deter migration.

1656
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 3: And you know, there's something similar going on in Cuba.

1657
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 4: We can put up f F one here, which is

1658
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 4: this political article about how you know where they say

1659
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:06,479
Speaker 4: it's Cuba. Cuba tried to improve its relations with the

1660
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 4: US by cooperating with Trump's deportation flights.

1661
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 3: It didn't work.

1662
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 4: Cuba is facing sanctions and terror designations that make what

1663
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 4: the US is doing to Venezuela seem almost almost friendly.

1664
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 4: You've had an unspeakably large exodus of people from Cuba

1665
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,800
Speaker 4: to the United States and to other countries or you know,

1666
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 4: in the in the hemisphere. People are reporting losing like

1667
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 4: enormous amounts of weight, like just there isn't enough food

1668
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,719
Speaker 4: to go around. Healthcare and healthcare is just is completely

1669
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,919
Speaker 4: collapsing because the sanctions and the and the terror designation

1670
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:46,599
Speaker 4: means you can't get spare parts even like from Europe

1671
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 4: or or anywhere else. Nobody wants to bank or do

1672
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 4: business with Cuba. So they thought, okay, let's let's cooperate

1673
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 4: on these deportation flights, and and that will that will

1674
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 4: end up benefiting us it had it has not. The

1675
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 4: same hardline approach is still being taken to Cuba. I

1676
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 4: actually think, and you know, it's become a kind of

1677
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:10,160
Speaker 4: a mantra that you know, it's been sixty years almost

1678
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 4: and we've been doing the same policy and we haven't

1679
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,280
Speaker 4: gotten regime change. I think it's actually possible, given the

1680
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 4: absolute dire state of the situation in Cuba, that they

1681
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 4: may actually accomplish their goal in the near term, Like

1682
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:27,080
Speaker 4: there could be complete collapse of the Cuban regime.

1683
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it like there isn't much left

1684
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:30,639
Speaker 3: holding it up.

1685
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 4: That being a long term goal of the United States,

1686
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:39,599
Speaker 4: and now maybe even being in sight, what on earth

1687
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 4: would happen.

1688
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:41,759
Speaker 3: Let's say they get their wish.

1689
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 4: I would imagine that creating another Haiti, creating a failed

1690
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 4: state on that island does not have the kind of

1691
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 4: immigration consequences that the United States immigration.

1692
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 3: Hawks would want.

1693
01:31:57,920 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 4: So let's talk a little bit about this weird country

1694
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 4: action at the heart of the rights approach to immigration.

1695
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 4: We're on the one hand, they want no migration or

1696
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 4: very little legal migration. On the other hand, they want

1697
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 4: these hard line policies toward Latin America that that cut

1698
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 4: off development and create failed states and plumbing economies that

1699
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 4: then produce mass exoduses of migrants towards the United States.

1700
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1701
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 17: And you know, historically, and when we're talking about like

1702
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 17: what I call Miami neocons, they actually supported an open

1703
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:37,160
Speaker 17: door policy with regards to Cubans, and you know, they

1704
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:39,560
Speaker 17: had to backpedal more so with Venezuelans.

1705
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 7: But you know, this makes perfect sense.

1706
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 17: I mean, most people of Cuban descent Venezuela and the

1707
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:49,880
Speaker 17: dead the Broguan descent are extremely hard line with regards

1708
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 17: to foreign policy towards their home countries, are extremely conservative.

1709
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,120
Speaker 17: And you know, you have what's called the Cuban Adjustment Act,

1710
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 17: which is basically any Cuban who manages to stay here

1711
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 17: for more than a year and a day is automatically

1712
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 17: granted residency. And this is you know, just electorally. It's

1713
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 17: great for Florida Republicans, and it's something that you know,

1714
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,440
Speaker 17: exactly exactly I've argued against it.

1715
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 7: It's it is a magnet.

1716
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 17: For a ton of people on the island, and conditions

1717
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 17: are very dire. As you've said, it's something like two

1718
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 17: million at least have left since twenty twenty one. And

1719
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 17: you know, in the case of Venezuela, this is something

1720
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:35,840
Speaker 17: I push back on some of my anti imperialist friends

1721
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 17: who say that, you know, the country's collapse, so it's

1722
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 17: just due to sanctions. Well, that's not entirely true, because

1723
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 17: Venezuela is an oil estate, and their economy collapse before

1724
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,160
Speaker 17: we impose sanctions on the royal sector in twenty seventeen.

1725
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 17: You know, twenty fourteen, the price of oil dropped massively,

1726
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 17: and you know, millions of people had already left before

1727
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 17: we impose sanctions. That said, imposing sanctions obviously will make

1728
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 17: things worse. Worse against sanctions whole scale. The case of

1729
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 17: Cuba is another story. The current crisis has definitely been

1730
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:12,600
Speaker 17: caused by sanctions, specifically putting them on the State Sponsors

1731
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 17: of Terrorism list, which is something that went back and forth.

1732
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,559
Speaker 17: Trump put them on the list, and the last days

1733
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 17: of his presidency, like January twenty twenty one, Biden took

1734
01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 17: them off days before leaving office, and then Trump put

1735
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 17: them back on the first day. Their economy is completely

1736
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:34,360
Speaker 17: dependent on tourism and putting them on that list means

1737
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:36,759
Speaker 17: that basically no one can do business with them, cruise

1738
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 17: ships and all the like. And actually Biden imposed further

1739
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 17: rules like that European tourists would have to report that

1740
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 17: they've been to Cuba. This is something that drops I

1741
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 17: reported on, Yeah, that they've traveled to a Cuban Obviously

1742
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 17: that's going to be a deterrent to tourism.

1743
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:56,920
Speaker 5: Well. And one, this is so interesting because the Trump

1744
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:02,120
Speaker 5: administration and kind of seems like a two thousand and

1745
01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:07,920
Speaker 5: nine era Obama is on this reset tour of the

1746
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:10,480
Speaker 5: Cold War. At least some people in the Trump administration

1747
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 5: would love to reset American foreign policy from the pattern

1748
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:19,960
Speaker 5: that we were stuck in for decades during the Cold War.

1749
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:25,800
Speaker 5: And that applies to Ukraine policy, it applies to NATO policy,

1750
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 5: it applies to certainly Eastern Europe. But when it comes

1751
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 5: to Cuba, very very close around the backyard, Cuba does

1752
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:37,960
Speaker 5: have is some measure of cooperation with China. Venezuela has

1753
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 5: some measure of cooperation with Iran in China as well,

1754
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 5: So it's not all on the US side, although we

1755
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 5: could go back into the tit for tat who pushed

1756
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 5: them into the arms of Iran and all of that.

1757
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:51,599
Speaker 5: But all I'm saying is it does seem like the

1758
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 5: time is ripe for the Grenelles and Laura Loomers to

1759
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:59,480
Speaker 5: make an argument that a Cuba reset or a Venezuela

1760
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 5: reset would be in the American interest. I think about

1761
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 5: like Mara Gaza, Like what about Mara Havana, Like it

1762
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 5: just seems like there's an argument sitting there to be

1763
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:13,800
Speaker 5: made to Trump about what can happen going forward. But

1764
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:16,679
Speaker 5: I guess as long as you have Mariel virus Salazar

1765
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:19,639
Speaker 5: and others. It seems like maybe there's just no path

1766
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 5: to that.

1767
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, funny story.

1768
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:25,640
Speaker 17: I actually found an article that quoted Trump in like

1769
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 17: the nineteen eighties and he said, yeah, something along the lines, Oh,

1770
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:30,719
Speaker 17: I'd love to build a hotel in Havana.

1771
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 5: Huh.

1772
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,840
Speaker 7: So, yeah, there's an opening there.

1773
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:39,160
Speaker 17: But unfortunately, Yeah, the Miami lobby is extremely powerful. I'm

1774
01:36:39,200 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 17: all for pragmatism.

1775
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 5: I think that what are the politics of that in

1776
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:45,760
Speaker 5: South Florida? By the way, so just since you're there

1777
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:48,680
Speaker 5: to talk a little bit about that too as well.

1778
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,759
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's uh, you know, these people are my neighbors,

1779
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 17: and I understand where they're coming from.

1780
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 7: Actually, some of them, you know, actually lived.

1781
01:36:57,320 --> 01:37:00,000
Speaker 17: Through really horrible things that were persecuted by these guys

1782
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:04,839
Speaker 17: of governments. Some of them were tortured all these regimes.

1783
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 17: One thing that they'll do is that they'll withhold food

1784
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,760
Speaker 17: to families in order to coerce them, you know, to

1785
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 17: vote for them or you know, attend rallies and stuff

1786
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 17: like that. So I genuinely get where they're coming from

1787
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 17: in the same way that I completely understand where a

1788
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 17: lot of the anti imperialists, both internationally and like in

1789
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:26,840
Speaker 17: you know, in the governments of these countries, like you know,

1790
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:30,080
Speaker 17: Cuba for a long time was basically a vassal of

1791
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 17: the US mob and interests were huge. They had didn't

1792
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 17: have control of their own trading policy until trade policy

1793
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 17: until like nineteen thirty four. But through the plat Amendment,

1794
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:44,200
Speaker 17: I mean, really horrible stuff. It's it's kind of obvious

1795
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:48,439
Speaker 17: that the revolution in fifty nine happened, but you know,

1796
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 17: and through a lot of it also there was just

1797
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:53,240
Speaker 17: like dictators that were just kind of stooges of the US.

1798
01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 17: So I get it. But because like the each side

1799
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 17: is so like maximal. On the one hand, you know,

1800
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:03,920
Speaker 17: like the Cuban or Venezuelan regime is like, oh, because

1801
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,559
Speaker 17: there's sanctions that gives us free rein to just you know,

1802
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 17: kill people on the streets and prisoner torture them. Uh,

1803
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 17: And then the neocons just say, oh, well, look they're

1804
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 17: killing and torturing people, so we need to impose sanctions.

1805
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 7: This is just the circular loop that's pointless.

1806
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:20,400
Speaker 4: And I wanted to pick up on something you said

1807
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 4: earlier about the way that this has really been a

1808
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 4: drag on the Venezuelan opposition because it it feels like

1809
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:33,559
Speaker 4: systematically across the globe, Trump is hurting his allies and

1810
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 4: boot and boosting his adversaries. We just saw in South Korea,

1811
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:42,920
Speaker 4: you know, the left center, yeah, winning the presidential election there,

1812
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 4: which you know, the Bannons of the world are calling,

1813
01:38:46,120 --> 01:38:47,880
Speaker 4: you know, Korea having fallen.

1814
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:48,400
Speaker 3: To the CCP.

1815
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 4: But certainly the tariff, the you know, Trump's tariff threats

1816
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:58,879
Speaker 4: to that region dragged down the Trump the Trump aligned

1817
01:38:58,960 --> 01:38:59,920
Speaker 4: conservative candidate.

1818
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:03,280
Speaker 3: Australia saw you know, lefties win there.

1819
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:07,920
Speaker 4: Canada saw its conservative movement just completely collapse. And now, yeah,

1820
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:13,439
Speaker 4: in Venezuela, you've got Machado, who is being pushed on

1821
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 4: this question of what do you know, are you with

1822
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 4: venezuel As sovereignty or or are you actually an agent

1823
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:24,760
Speaker 4: of a foreign government? And you know what had what

1824
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:27,679
Speaker 4: has been her response and what's been the kind of

1825
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,320
Speaker 4: the response of the public to that.

1826
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 17: So the day, i think the day after days after

1827
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 17: they those Sea Caught deportations, she issued a statement on

1828
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 17: x saying that something along the lines of the Venezuelan

1829
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 17: should not be treated all as criminals. But she didn't

1830
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 17: actually you know, verbalize any sort of opposition, you know,

1831
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:56,640
Speaker 17: put into words that like okay, you know, like the

1832
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 17: Sea Caught episode was not a good thing. So it

1833
01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:02,120
Speaker 17: just kind of up in the air. And she has

1834
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,080
Speaker 17: since still just told the line of the administration that

1835
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,720
Speaker 17: oh Maduro is the head of danda Agua and is

1836
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 17: directing an invasion, which.

1837
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:10,679
Speaker 7: Is just completely insane.

1838
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 17: There's been protests in Venezuela, rightfully so from the family

1839
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:17,839
Speaker 17: members of people that are you know, like now contempted

1840
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:22,640
Speaker 17: to life in prison inside the secote against Bouchele and

1841
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 17: against Trump. You actually had this Bouquele said that he'd

1842
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:31,880
Speaker 17: be willing to do a prisoner swap of the Sea

1843
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 17: Cottu prisoners for if Maduro released a bunch of an

1844
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 17: equivalent number of political prisoners. And so that was just

1845
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,799
Speaker 17: kind of a spectacle for the two leaders. Uh Maduro

1846
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:51,719
Speaker 17: actually a few weeks ago uh paraded this like little kid,

1847
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 17: the child of one of the Scott deportees, who they

1848
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:01,679
Speaker 17: didn't send to Venezuela because they were worried for her safety.

1849
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:03,200
Speaker 17: But then they send the mom and then they sent

1850
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 17: the kid, and so Adera was saying, thank you, Donald Trump,

1851
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 17: You're in a beauty of this. But we brought back

1852
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:13,400
Speaker 17: so and so and it's just it's something else.

1853
01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:15,599
Speaker 3: Yeah so she so.

1854
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 4: Uh, while we while we have you, I did want

1855
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:21,680
Speaker 4: to ask you about another really good piece you had.

1856
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:22,920
Speaker 3: This was for the Liberal Patriot.

1857
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 4: If we can put up just the final element here,

1858
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 4: what the what democrats can learn from Arena which is

1859
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:34,520
Speaker 4: the party of Amlo and Claudia Shinbaum and you had ah,

1860
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:37,800
Speaker 4: you had a Let me see if I can find

1861
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:41,519
Speaker 4: the deck to this article too. That the subtitle was,

1862
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:44,719
Speaker 4: it sounded like it's written for Breaking Points. The Mexican

1863
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:48,479
Speaker 4: left combined ideological diversity on cultural issues with a shared

1864
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:52,559
Speaker 4: populist division on material concerns, which it's sort of like

1865
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 4: what Breaking Points has been screaming for years would be

1866
01:41:56,240 --> 01:42:01,520
Speaker 4: an effective policy from either party. Uh, you know, ideological

1867
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 4: diversity on cultural issues a big tent there, and populous

1868
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 4: vision on material concerns. So what can you tell us

1869
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 4: beyond the headline that you know, for people who were

1870
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 4: just like hey, hey go Cloudia, but like what what

1871
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 4: what beyond that did Amloan Cloudia do effectively that Democrats

1872
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:26,200
Speaker 4: could learn from and also frankly, that Trump could learn from,

1873
01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 4: because he seems to have his own odd set of

1874
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:32,760
Speaker 4: admiration for both of those figures.

1875
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:34,679
Speaker 7: Yeah, funny story.

1876
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:39,759
Speaker 17: Last night I got a notification from a pro Morena

1877
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 17: outlet saying that Caroline Lovitt defended shame Bomb that the

1878
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,400
Speaker 17: Washington Post ran some sort of I meant to send

1879
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 17: you this. Actually, the Washington Post ran some sort of

1880
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 17: article that uh vuntional seizures at the border had mysteriously declined,

1881
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:58,639
Speaker 17: and so Caroline Levitt was asked about that, and she said,

1882
01:42:59,120 --> 01:43:01,759
Speaker 17: it's not mysteriou is, it's because of our tough stance

1883
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:05,759
Speaker 17: on the border and our strong relationship with President Claudia Shamebaum.

1884
01:43:06,320 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 7: So that was kind of funny, that is and.

1885
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:14,160
Speaker 3: Probably like but let's be real, like that's probably true.

1886
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:17,320
Speaker 3: Like ye, absolutely, state does have more control.

1887
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:21,600
Speaker 4: Both states have more control over fentanyl flows. Then I

1888
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:22,439
Speaker 4: think that they let on.

1889
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 17: Yeah yeah, well, and this is actually a really good

1890
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:29,840
Speaker 17: uh yeah segue into that article. Shane Baum has done

1891
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:34,479
Speaker 17: something really interesting. It's not entirely a U turn, but

1892
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:35,599
Speaker 17: it's been framed that way.

1893
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 7: Well, it is. It is kind of a turn.

1894
01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 17: She has taken away tougher stance on security than omlo

1895
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:44,640
Speaker 17: ever did, and I think this is a lesson for

1896
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:49,759
Speaker 17: progressive I'm a big critic of a progressive crime policy.

1897
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 7: Uh, and I love what he did.

1898
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:55,679
Speaker 17: He actually, it's it's not quite entirely correct to say

1899
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 17: that it was like soft on crime. It was kind

1900
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 17: of soft on the cartel's. But in public security, for instance,

1901
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:03,800
Speaker 17: if you go to Mexico's security is very militarized, and

1902
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 17: you see like a lot of troops, you'll see like

1903
01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 17: these trucks with like soldiers standing on the back with

1904
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 17: these machine guns. But with regards to the cartels, he

1905
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 17: took a more hands off policy. His view was that

1906
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 17: the previous governments had, you know, they declared a war

1907
01:44:23,160 --> 01:44:26,800
Speaker 17: on the narcos, and this just exploded violence. Before two

1908
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 17: thousand and seven, when Felipe Don't, a former president, came in,

1909
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 17: Mexico actually had a pretty low homicide rate equivalent to

1910
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,720
Speaker 17: the US of like seven per one. And he came

1911
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:40,040
Speaker 17: in and within months sused, we're gonna bring out the military,

1912
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:42,640
Speaker 17: We're gonna go after the cartels, and this just exploded

1913
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:49,320
Speaker 17: violence and it hasn't really improved much since. When came in,

1914
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:52,680
Speaker 17: he said, Okay, we're gonna shift the strategy. We're going

1915
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 17: to deprioritize seizing drugs, and going after Kingkins.

1916
01:44:56,640 --> 01:44:58,280
Speaker 7: We're kind of gonna do damage control.

1917
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 17: So when there's an outbreak of violence with the cartels,

1918
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:03,959
Speaker 17: we're just going to send these huge deployments of soldiers

1919
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 17: to try to quell the violence. According to official figures,

1920
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:11,760
Speaker 17: homicides went down like ten percent during his government, but

1921
01:45:11,800 --> 01:45:15,640
Speaker 17: disappearances were still huge, and this was a huge criticism

1922
01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:18,679
Speaker 17: against his government. Also, the critique was that it allowed

1923
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:22,439
Speaker 17: cartels to, you expand their control over parts of the country.

1924
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:25,759
Speaker 7: What Shane Baum has done is that.

1925
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:30,240
Speaker 17: She's taken a more She's taken a tougher approach, but

1926
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:31,679
Speaker 17: also a more strategic one.

1927
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:35,720
Speaker 7: So she's prioritizing going after like the mid level guys

1928
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:42,480
Speaker 7: in charge of logistics within cartels, and it really prioritized

1929
01:45:42,560 --> 01:45:45,920
Speaker 7: drug seizures because one of the problems was that AMLO

1930
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:48,080
Speaker 7: got rid of the fay and Alis, which a lot

1931
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:50,839
Speaker 7: of people might be familiar with from the movies, replaced

1932
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 7: it with the National Guard. The National Guard was a

1933
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 7: military not a police entity, and so they didn't really

1934
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 7: have the training to do like investigative work and like

1935
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:02,800
Speaker 7: seizing drugs was a problem. So she's looked to professionalize

1936
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,760
Speaker 7: the National Guard and is also looking to create an

1937
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 7: investigative police. In Mexico, things are a bit different.

1938
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:10,599
Speaker 10: You have.

1939
01:46:12,439 --> 01:46:16,800
Speaker 17: The police don't investigate crimes, it's the prosecutors to do.

1940
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 7: So she's created this.

1941
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 17: Her security minister announced a few weeks ago the creation

1942
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:24,280
Speaker 17: of an investigative.

1943
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 7: Police, and so far the results have been pretty good.

1944
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:28,639
Speaker 7: Drug seizures on.

1945
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,680
Speaker 17: The Mexican side have really gone up and homicides have

1946
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:34,000
Speaker 17: gone down around twenty percent.

1947
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 7: So that's extremely promising.

1948
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 4: What's all happening pretty out in the open, So i'd imagine,

1949
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 4: if you know, there be a lot of gains to

1950
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 4: make out of the gate.

1951
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1952
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 17: Yeah, And to be fair, yeah, a lot of this

1953
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:49,519
Speaker 17: is due to pressure from the Trump administration through tariffs

1954
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:53,880
Speaker 17: and the like whatnot. But going back to the point

1955
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 17: of the piece as to like what democrats can learn

1956
01:46:57,400 --> 01:47:00,439
Speaker 17: from what Ana, Yeah, that article is kind of a

1957
01:47:00,479 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 17: ten year history of the party. Was founded in twenty

1958
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,520
Speaker 17: fourteen and in ten years, Wow, they managed to basically

1959
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:13,559
Speaker 17: take over the whole country. And he, you know, some

1960
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:16,040
Speaker 17: people like would dispute this. I like to say that

1961
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,360
Speaker 17: he was a traditionalist and he didn't really care a

1962
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 17: lot about social issues. I think that personally he was

1963
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 17: kind of conservative on some of the leg LGBT issues

1964
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:30,000
Speaker 17: and stuff, but it wasn't really the focus of his politics.

1965
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:35,040
Speaker 17: And the focus of his politics was all material raising

1966
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 17: the minimum wage, backing unions, securing Mexico's energy sovereignty. And

1967
01:47:42,960 --> 01:47:45,880
Speaker 17: that's a good lesson that I like to critique progressives on.

1968
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:49,120
Speaker 17: I think the climate change is very important, but working

1969
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:53,280
Speaker 17: class people have a very different view of the energy transition.

1970
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 17: They think that, yeah, we should invest in renewables, and

1971
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:02,240
Speaker 17: that's great. Below prices are really the priority you want

1972
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 17: to have in all of the above approach. And that's

1973
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:07,719
Speaker 17: something that the liberal patriot really hammers home all the time.

1974
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:10,240
Speaker 17: It's better in the long run if we just invest

1975
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:15,160
Speaker 17: in renewables, don't you know, generate a backlash among workers

1976
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:19,120
Speaker 17: and bring down energy prices instead of trying to go

1977
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 17: full speed ahead and you know, go in on renewables

1978
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,519
Speaker 17: which are unreliable. You know, the sun isn't always shining,

1979
01:48:26,640 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 17: the wind isn't always blowing. Uh and in South Florida

1980
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:38,720
Speaker 17: exactly exactly, So what Morena has. The policy of Morena was,

1981
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:42,920
Speaker 17: you know, we need to secure the needs of workers Omlow.

1982
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 17: He prioritized refining after previous administrations had decided, you know,

1983
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:50,040
Speaker 17: they were just going to import oil from the US

1984
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 17: and this brought down prices. He you know, he built

1985
01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:56,639
Speaker 17: this huge oil refinery in his home state of Talasco.

1986
01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 17: And Shane Baum, well, she's a climate scientist. She cares

1987
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 17: about renewables. But so far she's been very practical, and

1988
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:08,600
Speaker 17: especially because of the terriffs, that's forced her to prioritize

1989
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:14,320
Speaker 17: energy sovereignty. So her government is promoting partnerships and renewables

1990
01:49:14,439 --> 01:49:19,160
Speaker 17: and public private partnerships and renewables and in fossil fuels.

1991
01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:23,160
Speaker 17: Carlos Slim is actually a significant backer of a BANDMICS,

1992
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:25,559
Speaker 17: the state oil company, which has had huge problems.

1993
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:30,479
Speaker 4: Want to beat Rojas, writer for Compact and other outlets.

1994
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome back any time.

1995
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,280
Speaker 5: Thankes, says n That was great, super interesting.

1996
01:49:37,560 --> 01:49:40,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, big, big, want to beat Rojas fan. Even though

1997
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 4: you know we don't agree on everything, He's always got

1998
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:44,639
Speaker 4: something interesting to say, right yeh.

1999
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:48,559
Speaker 5: So interesting, something different. It's interesting and different. Things parcolating

2000
01:49:48,600 --> 01:49:50,760
Speaker 5: under the surface of the Trump administration and we'll see

2001
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 5: where they go. It sounds like none of us are

2002
01:49:53,320 --> 01:49:56,360
Speaker 5: particularly optimistic that they'll be a true reset.

2003
01:49:57,479 --> 01:50:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of entrenched, a lot of incumbent

2004
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:02,920
Speaker 4: interest groups to deal with.

2005
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:06,760
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, as a reminder, the monthly subscriptions are back,

2006
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:08,880
Speaker 5: so BP free is the code if you want to

2007
01:50:08,880 --> 01:50:11,760
Speaker 5: try it out for a month breakingpoints dot com. The

2008
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,000
Speaker 5: promo code is just BP free. You can get a

2009
01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 5: free monthly trial. We will be back here on Friday

2010
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:18,920
Speaker 5: with the Friday Show. Are you here tomorrow as well? Ryan?

2011
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 5: I am okay, so Ryan's in tomorrow. Then the three

2012
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:24,880
Speaker 5: of us will be in on Friday, and the second

2013
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:27,240
Speaker 5: half of that show is for the premium subs. So

2014
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 5: if you want to see you just want to try out,

2015
01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:30,880
Speaker 5: I want to be like, are they saying things that

2016
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:34,040
Speaker 5: are that interesting? Is it worth my money? You could

2017
01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:37,200
Speaker 5: do that over at breakingpoints dot com. And Ryan will

2018
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:41,000
Speaker 5: be back tomorrow and we'll otherwise. I'll see you guys Friday,

2019
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:58,200
Speaker 5: see you then see you