WEBVTT - The Retrial 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:05.559 Before we begin, please be aware this episode contains discussions 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:10.039 around infant deaths and other difficult topics. Please take care 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:10.880 while listening. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.120 Let's take this very slowly. Did she have her back 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:18.920 towards the direction you were coming from. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.319 No, she definitely was facing in my direction. I can't 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.640 remember whether she was directly face on or slightly angled 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.160 towards the incubator, but she wasn't looking at the monitor. 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.319 And as I approached, I looked up, and I can't 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.280 remember my exact words. I just said, what's happening? And 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.479 Lucy looked up and said, oh, it looks like she's desaturating. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.880 What kind of a story is that you call a 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.080 doctor of help and the doctor walks in and she's 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.959 monitoring the baby. You go and do your doctor thing 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.800 at that point, it's not a story. But somehow that 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:51.560 piece never got told in court. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.080 It couldn't have happened the way he described that it 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:59.000 happened in court, which is hugely problematic for the prosecution. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.680 It's been nearly a year since Lucy let Be was 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:08.000 convicted and sentenced to life in prison, but during the 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.319 first trial, the jury couldn't settle on six of the charges, 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.920 including one that led to a retrial the charge for 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:22.080 the attempted murder of Baby K. But this retrial is 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.520 about much more than what happened to Baby K. It's 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.800 about whether a story can hold up in court a 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:35.280 second time. And in this courtroom, the prosecution's case leans 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:40.639 hard on a single vivid account. One you've already heard, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.360 that of doctor Robb Jayram that moment he says he 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.200 walked into a neonatal room in the early hours and 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.680 saw Lucy let Be standing by a cot as a 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:59.560 baby's oxygen levels fell while she did nothing. It's the 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.960 most wrecked allegation in the entire case, one that the 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.079 first jury didn't find compelling enough to convict, but the 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:16.280 Crown was willing to try again. And yet as time passed, 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:23.000 serious questions would be asked about that testimony, questions about timing, 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:29.079 about memory, about what was written down at the time. Eventually, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:34.359 one piece of evidence would surface, an email at odds 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:41.079 with the account the jury was asked to believe. I'm 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.720 Amanda Ox and from Vespucci and iHeart podcasts, this is 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:52.520 doubt The Case of Lucy Let be Episode seven, the retrial. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.920 Breaking news in the last hour and nurse Lucy Letbie, 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.160 who was given a whole life sentence for the murder 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.239 of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others, 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.440 is to face a retrial on an outstanding allegation that 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:14.560 she attempted to murder a baby girl. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:22.800 This time, the world around the courtroom is different. After 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:27.720 the first convictions, reporting restrictions tightened, But as we saw 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.000 in episode six, Rachel Aviv's article in The New Yorker 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.240 would be released the month before the retrial began. The 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.680 UK courts did their best to suppress anyone in the 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.360 UK reading the article, but in the void left by 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:49.520 the media restrictions, her words only rang louder. For UK 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:54.280 calumnist John Robbins. Her article signified that there were finally 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.080 more eyes on the case and now the retrial. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.280 Perspective. There was this appetite in America to kind of 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.480 understand the potential for mistakes in our justice system. 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.720 But regardless of who was now watching, the retrial was 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.320 still taking place in the backdrop of those first convictions 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:20.480 and the dominant media story that Lucy was the angel 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:25.360 of death. In fact, this was the only media story 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.000 the court had allowed before the restrictions. 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.840 So any kind of nuance, any kind of inaccuracies are 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.920 sealed forever in the trial, and the prosecution story becomes 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.000 the story. The truth very hard to get the genie 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.680 back into the bottle, and there's this one story that 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.159 is she is a serial killer. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.640 For the Crown, this retrial was a chance to close 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.159 a loose end and to reinforce the integrity of the 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:54.960 wider case. 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:02.040 But those stakes cut both ways with that, what's the 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:06.680 thing we all agree Lucy let Be should be free? 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.600 What's the thing we all agree Lucy let Be. 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:11.640 Should be free? 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.920 An emerging group of supporters believe Lucy let Be is innocent. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.320 One even turns up outside the courthouse holding a huge 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.520 banner that reads justice for Lucy let Be. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.280 In Liverpool is the proof that there are people who. 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.359 Support Lucy let Be. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.880 We are proud of that and we are going to 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.080 keep it up. We are not going to give up 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:40.599 what until this conviction is overturned in every one of them. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:45.719 For them, this retrial matters because a second acquittal wouldn't 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:51.320 undo the verdicts, but it would change the conversation, forcing 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:57.640 uncomfortable questions about the wider case into View journalist Clucy 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:00.839 de Oliveria followed the entire trial. 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.920 And the case of Baby K. She was born very 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.760 very premature. I believe that twenty five weeks in February 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.080 of twenty sixteen. And she was not supposed to be 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.919 born at the Countess. You know. The Countess wasn't really prepped. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.440 The doctors didn't have the right experience that of dealing 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.800 with like super premature babies on a constant basis in 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.560 order to be able to care for the baby appropriately. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.360 She wasn't supposed to be born there, but there were 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:30.360 concerns when the mother was already in labor of transferring 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.400 her out to another hospital, that there was a fear 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.280 that the baby could be born in the back of 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.760 an ambulance, you know. And so the baby was born 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.560 at this hospital, which wasn't qualified for this kind of 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.679 birth of a very very vulnerable baby. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:52.800 When Baby Ka was born, the Countess was already on edge. 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.039 By that point, three babies had died the hospital in 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.159 just one month alone, in a unit that typically saw 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:06.200 two or three deaths in an entire year. Concerns had 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:12.400 been raised internally, reviews had taken place, but crucially, no 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:17.760 allegation of deliberate harm had yet been made to police. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:24.560 Questions were circulating among doctors, Patterns were being discussed, associations 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.440 were being noted, but there was still no crime scene, 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:37.760 no suspect, no police investigation. That all changed when doctor 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.760 Jayram came forward with his shocking account. What follows is 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.800 what was presented to the court, read by actors. 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.720 Lucy let Be was we use the term babysitting, so 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.720 it's when the name nurses called away, another nurse goes 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.320 to supervise. At this time, February twenty sixteen, had a 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.880 number of unusual instants with babies and a number of 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.960 colleagues and myself had noted the association with Lucy let 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.320 Be being present at these things. At this stage we'd 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.800 had a thematic review, an external review, which hadn't found 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:18.240 any other obvious factors. I was sitting and I'll be 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.160 very honest, I felt very uncomfortable. Objectively, you could say 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.760 that was completely irrational, but I just had a feeling 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.400 because of knowing what had happened before, and my internal 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.400 dialogue was very much stop being stupid, get on with 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:30.840 your work. 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:36.040 Nick Johnson, the prosecuting lawyer, asks doctor j Ram to 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.800 describe what he saw on Baby Kay's monitor. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.840 What I saw on the screens was that Baby Kay's 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.160 oxygen saturations were dropping. They're in the low eighties and 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.680 going downwards next to the incubator, so sort of around 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.280 where just at the top of the A is where 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.240 the ventilator sits and the pumps to give intravenous fluids. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.840 And Lucy let Bee was standing at point B next 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.640 to the incubator. She wasn't looking at me. She didn't 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.000 have hands in the incubator. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.480 Let's take this very slowly. Did she have her back 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.320 towards a direction you were coming from. 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.680 No, she definitely was facing in my direction. I can't 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.000 remember whether she was directly face on or slightly angled 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.480 towards the incubator, but she wasn't looking at the monitor. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.120 And as I approached, I looked up, and I can't 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.920 remember my exact words. I just said, what's happening? And 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.400 Lucy looked up and said, oh, it looks like she's desaturating. 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.440 What was of note is usually the monitors are set 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.280 to alarm if the saturations drop, usually below a level 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.120 of ninety percent, and the alarm immediately I didn't look 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.640 to see whether the button that caused the alarms to 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.640 be suspended was pressed. But these saturations were going down 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:39.920 and continued to go down. 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.080 Was there the sound of the alarm? 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.800 No, there was no alarm. Had an alarm gone off, 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.920 that would have been my prompt to walk in. And 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.600 although if you look at the layout of the unit, 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.840 the alarms allowed and where I was sitting, had an 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.600 alarm gone off, I would have heard it. 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.120 The picture that the prosecution is trying to paint, he 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:05.280 is very deliberate. A room full of machines designed to 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.840 scream when something is wrong, a baby's oxygen levels falling, 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.439 and yet no alarm, no call for help. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.920 Did you hear while you were either sitting at the 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:22.040 nursing station or your progress into nursery one any call 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:23.600 for help from Lucy Leppie? 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.400 No, not all. I was surprised that the alarm wasn't 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.400 going off, although my priority was baby k and I 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.120 didn't question it at the time, and in retrospect I was. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.880 I'm surprised that help hadn't been called, given that baby 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.520 Kay was a twenty five week gestation baby and her 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:40.600 saturations were dropping. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:46.160 Doctor jerm suspected something was wrong with Baby Kay's breathing tube. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.960 So having established that there was an issue with the tube, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.880 I removed the tube. So basically took the tube out 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.480 of Baby Kay's mouth, connected the tea piece to a 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.080 small mask which I then put over Baby Kay's nose 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.280 and mouth, and ventilated through the mask. Picked up extremely quickly. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.440 Within a few breaths, her color improved, her saturations improved, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.760 and I could see that her chest was moving normally. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:16.120 Baby Ka stabilizes, but she is still critically premature. Baby 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.679 k would spend the next six hours at Countess Hospital 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.520 waiting to be transferred to another hospital better equipped to. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:24.120 Care for her. 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:29.040 And here is where the stories become important in terms 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.959 of what actually happened and what the jury was asked 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:37.760 to consider. A transfer note written at five fifty five 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:43.880 am reads call received from doctor Jayram baby dislodged the 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:48.320 tube and had to be reintubated. When asked about that 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.880 wording in court, doctor Jayram was careful. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.400 I probably framed it as the tube was dislodged. 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:57.800 So what was it? 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.120 Did the baby dislodge her own tube or did someone else? 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:08.600 We know that Ravi's saying Lucy excubated the baby dislodged 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:15.160 the tube, but we know that also that baby self 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.600 dislodged the tube on two more occasions during that same 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:19.560 six hour period. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.920 This is former New Liddle nurse Michelle Warden. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:29.840 Babies wriggle, they move. If you think these tubes they're 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.880 tied in, they're not what's called cuffed, which is what 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.360 happens in an adult or a child where it's fixed. 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.880 So they can very easily slip, and you only need 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:44.000 that baby to slightly move their head and move half 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:44.679 a centimeter. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.160 Although doctor Jerum makes an excuse for the difference between 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.480 what the hospital note said and what he meant, other 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.679 times he was much more certain that the tube had 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.400 been dislodged deliberately. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.400 The nurse would have called for help. And Lucy Letby 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.160 was standing by the top of the incubator. She didn't 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:04.239 have her hands in the incubator. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.800 This is from an interview doctor Jayram did with ITV 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.640 between Lucy's first trial and her retrial. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:11.880 What was she doing? 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:16.160 What she was just standing there? Now? Tubes become dislodged, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.680 but this was a twenty five week gestation baby who 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:25.880 wasn't kicking around, who wasn't vigorous. The only possibility was 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.520 that that tube had to have been dislodged deliberately. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.320 This has never sat well with Michelle. 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.840 He very clearly said, the only explanation for a twenty 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:42.480 five week gestation baby is that somebody deliberately dislodged it. Well, 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.000 that's just rubbish. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.200 It also didn't sit well with Lucy's defense lawyer. In fact, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.920 Ben Myers would play the interview that doctor Jayram gave 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.800 in court. Here's court transcripts of that cross examination read 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.520 by actors Dr Jerren. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:06.240 The only possibility is of the tube being dislodged deliberately. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:07.960 Yes, Bear in. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.360 Mind this interview was a long way after the events. 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.400 You're telling the truth, and at that time we also 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.360 knew Lucy Letby had been convicted of several charges of 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:17.800 murder and attempted murder. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.479 We all know that. But you said, the only possibility 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.880 you're talking about that night. Yes, the only possibility is 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.360 the tube must have been dislodged deliberately. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:30.520 So you'd got her. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.440 Yes, hadn't you? Hadn't you You'd walked in on her, 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:35.040 hadn't you? 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:36.080 Well? 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.680 I walked in and there are a number of things 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.000 that should have been happening that didn't happen, that weren't happening. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:47.200 Yes, except after all this certainty that the tube had 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.600 been deliberately dislodged. Doctor Jerrem would later go on to 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.560 tell the court that, in actual fact, he didn't witness 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.240 the tube being dislodged. 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.840 He's also on record of saying he walked in and 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.240 she didn't have hands in the incubator, So she didn't 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.760 have hands in the incubator. How did she actually dislodge 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.000 the tube? 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.280 Now, some have argued that Lucy let Be may have 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.119 deliberately avoided being seen with her hands inside the incubator, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.760 that she was careful to cover her tracks, but the 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:24.440 central fact remains. No one ever testified to actually seeing 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:29.440 her harm a baby, and yet doctor Jayram's account came 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.280 to be treated as if it were eye witness evidence. 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.040 A doctor from that unit later told the court at 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.960 retrial that if she had been born there, she would 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.560 have had access to the specialists she needed and might 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.000 have survived, but by the time she reached them, she 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.600 was already too fragile and there was no chance of 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.840 saving her. But for doctor Jayram, there was one clear 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.440 answer as to what happened to baby Kay, and he 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.440 would distill his account against Lucy let Be to three 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:07.640 points of suspicion. One, up until the point he saw 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.360 Lucy at the incubator, baby k had been stable. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.160 Two the alarms didn't sound. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.560 And three I hadn't actually been called or nobody had 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.040 actually been called to come and look at the. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:29.200 Baby except an actual fact he had. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.600 Ravi Jydham had sent an email to his colleagues. 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.440 This is reporter Clucy to Oliveira again and. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.000 There's just one line in it where he says where 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.320 is He's describing the incident, and he says Lucy let 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.400 be at court and called doctor Jayuram for help when 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:53.200 the baby started deteriorating. So this is the earliest recorded 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.760 piece of evidence of Bravi Jayram describing the events of 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.720 that night, and it is completely completely different, black and white, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.040 different from what he came to testify about at trial. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.320 Unbeknownst to the defense and prosecution at the time, there 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.000 was one piece of evidence that complicated the picture. Doctor 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.600 Jayram had painted, an internal email that would surface in 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.439 September twenty twenty four. It had been written before the 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.239 trials even before the police investigation had started, and it 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.480 directly went against doctor Jayram's claim that Lucy had never 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.560 called for help. The email was written when the doctors 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.639 were putting together their case in a document for the police. 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.280 In this email, doctor Jayram was clear about the goal 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.080 the document, he said, was meant for the police to 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.320 have their interest piqued, and he suggested the cases should 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:58.080 quote highlight explicitly for these cases that LLL was in 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:03.560 attendance and in close proximy to the incubators end. He 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.280 stressed that this should be done hopefully more in a 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.520 stating the facts way than a subjective finger pointing way. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.080 Jayram wrote Staffner's let Be was at incubator and called 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.240 doctor Jayram to inform of low saturations. 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.480 In this telling, it. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.199 Was let Be who called him, not a doctor acting 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.439 on instinct or suspicion, as he testified in court. He 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:35.359 also recorded that baby Kay's collapse and eventual death was 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:41.840 consistent with complications from extreme prematurity, not from a dislodged 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.879 breathing tube. More striking still, in a final report that 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.760 the doctors at the Countess sent to the police, the 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.920 report that started the whole police investigation. 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.320 This information was absent. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:03.000 For Sarah Napton, signed editor at the Telegraph, it was clear. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.560 It couldn't have happened the way he described that it 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:10.720 happened in court, which is hugely problemastic for the prosecution. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:16.359 The problem is this email would emerge one month after 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:21.720 the retrial was over, a retrial that Lucy would lose. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.040 Although Lucy's defense was never able to bring up doctor 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.360 Jayram's email in court, it raised a very important question 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.600 whether doctor Jayram's account, so central to the investigation and 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:46.560 to both trials, had been fully and consistently told. There 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.080 was another detail about doctor Jayrem that was brought up 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.560 during the retrial and which made those following the case 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:59.480 even more concerned about the validity of his testimony, because 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.439 on the eve of the second trial, the Guardian newspaper 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.439 reported something that took doctor Jayram's interest in this case 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.760 to a whole other level. They reported that the man 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.520 who was already well known to the UK public from 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.480 his reality TV stint, had become involved in what many 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:26.160 could imagine to be a very lucrative project. Producers were 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.440 interested in making a TV drama about the Lucy let 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:35.000 Be case. And doctor Jayram was involved. This latest discovery 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.680 only added fuel to a fire that started way back 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.360 when Rachel Leviv's article was published. A public that had 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.320 started to question the legitimacy of her conviction had only 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:52.840 more questions. On the first day of the retrial, Lucy's 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.000 lawyer requested that the judge get a statement from doctor 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.199 Jayram to ask whether he had commercial involvement with the 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.760 TV production, because, to Ben Myers, this would cause a 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.639 significant issue that the doctor would quote portray himself in 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.919 a particular way in a story that is being developed. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:20.560 The judge declined, it's hard to understand why this was 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.880 a story so compelling that it was already being shaped 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.560 for the screen. But it was an ongoing story, and 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.479 new questions were emerging about one of the prosecution's most 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:36.480 pivotal witnesses, and it was that exact witness who would 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:41.040 be shaping the way the story would be told. As 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.280 scrutiny rose, production on the TV drama would eventually be halted, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.720 with creators saying that the case was more complicated than 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:50.560 first thought. 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.160 I'd be amazed if that didn't form a significant part 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.560 on the criminal cases. Rube's commission to the buck at 0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.960 the trial and it back to the Court of Appeal, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.800 which is there isn't any evidence apart from what he says, 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.040 and now what he says has been called in question. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:13.360 Sarah Naptin was wrong, the court would deny her appeal. 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.000 Thank you, Madam Dipty Speaker. I am not in the 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.280 habit of issuing trigger warnings, but I must warn the 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.320 House in this case that this speech covers deeply distressing events. 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.640 But just because the court had decided they were done 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:34.040 deliberating the case, others were not. Conservative Member of Parliament 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.600 David Davis stood up in the House of Commons and 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.679 publicly demanded answers. 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.879 But my central argument today, which comes back to what 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.280 they right on one gentleman ask me, is what to 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.040 do about a trial which, in my view is a 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:49.760 clear miscarriacter justice by. 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:53.879 Judicial since in May twenty five, Davis wrote to Mark Roberts, 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.960 Chief Constable of the Cheshire Police, to make a formal 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:04.000 complaint calling for doctor Jayram to be investigated for perjury. 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.280 He argued that the jury in the retrial reached their 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.720 verdict on the basis of misleading testimony and that quote 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.959 this matter goes beyond the outcome of a single trial. 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:20.800 It touches on public confidence in the integrity of our 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:30.800 criminal justice system. 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.440 I think I've lost a lot of faith in the 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.760 criminal justice systems. I've looked into this. 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.720 For journalist Guy Roland, the issue of doctor Jayram's testimony 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:45.520 was just one aspect of a case riddled with questions, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:51.360 questions surrounding stories that began with the doctors. 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.320 The moment those doctors walked through the door to that 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:00.280 police station, they're the doctors. They felt like, right, okay, 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.639 we believe these doctors, and let's give them the benefit 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:04.960 of doubt. They did believe those doctors. They just believe 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.080 what they were told. They didn't look at the history 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:11.480 of the fact that they'd lost a grievance against this 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.439 slowly nurse that they'd accused of the most terrible things. 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:20.080 And then Dowi Evans walks in and his amazing gift 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:22.399 at being able to spot what no one else's spot 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:24.440 in ten minutes over a cup of coffee, and then 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:28.359 that seals that the system itself seems to work in 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.200 a certain way that once you're on a track saying right, 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:35.080 we think this is a winnable case. Now It's just 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:39.680 extraordinary how fast it went from there's no evidence here 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.280 to doctors tell a story. Another doctor comes in a 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:45.440 spot's murder in ten minutes over a cup of coffee, 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.840 and right we're after the races. And I will stand 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.119 by this. I think that the vast majority of those 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:53.160 people really believes they're doing the right thing. 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:02.919 That belief in the doctors it mattered because once it 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:07.760 took hold, it narrowed the frame shaping what was questioned, 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:13.680 what was pursued, and what was quietly set aside. What 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:17.600 Guy Roland is pointing to isn't a single missing detail. 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:23.120 It's a pattern, a series of facts, reports, and expert 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:27.080 opinions that never made it into the courtroom at all. 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:30.320 And once you begin to lay them out, a different 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:34.679 picture starts to emerge, not of what the jury decided, 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.320 but of what the jury was never asked to consider. 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:41.639 There is a great deal of evidence demonstration there are 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.560 much more likely alternative causes of these tragic deaths than 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:46.320 those put up by the prosecuting team. 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:50.920 This is David Davis again speaking in the House of Commons. 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:54.040 One of the problems we face is that much of 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:59.040 the evidence was available at the time expert analysis of 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.159