Speaker 1: I guess what will what's that? So some years ago
Speaker 1: I watched this movie at Rooftop Films and it was
Speaker 1: about this guy who defected from the American army during
Speaker 1: the Korean War. He was just kind of like fed
Speaker 1: up with being yelled at by his sergeants, so he
Speaker 1: put his hands up and then just walked across the border.
Speaker 1: And it was all about how he'd lived the rest
Speaker 1: of his life in North Korea. Right, you can do that,
Speaker 1: You can just walk over the border like that, I guess. So.
Speaker 1: I mean he's lived there and learned Korean. He smokes
Speaker 1: a lot of cigarettes and drinks and and he's treated
Speaker 1: like this elite there. But the thing is he's had
Speaker 1: to work for that status. And one of the things
Speaker 1: he's been doing is acting. So he is one of
Speaker 1: the few white guys in North Korea. I think he's
Speaker 1: one of four defectors. So he was tasked with playing
Speaker 1: the villain in every single propaganda movie they've done. Little
Speaker 1: tast fifty years or something. But the weirdest thing to
Speaker 1: me is that Kim Jong ill thought that he could
Speaker 1: make this guy's kids spies since they're, you know, basically
Speaker 1: white looking. So he thought they'd lend into American society,
Speaker 1: But the footage of these kids is so sad, Like,
Speaker 1: first of all, they're on camera, so everyone knows what
Speaker 1: they look like. And it's also kind of hard to
Speaker 1: train as a spy and pick up a perfect English
Speaker 1: language when you're studying at North Korean schools. So there's
Speaker 1: just a lot of unrealistic hope that was pinned to
Speaker 1: their success. But watching that movie made me wonder, like,
Speaker 1: what is life really like in North Korea? How did
Speaker 1: the country get to be so isolated? And has it
Speaker 1: always kept a distance from the world or is this
Speaker 1: a new phenomena. So that's what we're discussing today day
Speaker 1: their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will
Speaker 1: Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend
Speaker 1: man guest show Ticketer and on the other side of
Speaker 1: the soundproof glass. Just ativated by this terrible monster movie,
Speaker 1: I mean it is terrible called Pulga Sorry, he's watching
Speaker 1: this on his laptop. Tristan pay Ant, engineer, that's our
Speaker 1: attention and producer Tristan McNeil. And if you've never heard
Speaker 1: of Pulgasari, it's definitely worth checking out. So the monster is.
Speaker 1: It's basically North Korea's answered to Godzilla, right, and it's
Speaker 1: produced by Kim Jong Ill back in the mid nineteen eighties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty well story. So when Kim John Iill
Speaker 1: was in charge of North Korea, he had this nasty
Speaker 1: habit of, you know, kidnapping people from the surrounding countries
Speaker 1: to do his bidding. And in nineteen eight he snatched
Speaker 1: a famous South Korean film director, this guy named Shin
Speaker 1: sang ok and his actress ex wife, and Kim was
Speaker 1: supposedly this big movie buff and he wanted his captives
Speaker 1: to help him create this North Korean film industry. But thankfully,
Speaker 1: Shin and his ex were eventually able to escape while
Speaker 1: they were attending a film festival in Vienna. But that
Speaker 1: was actually after eight years of captivity, and during that time,
Speaker 1: Shin was forced to direct a total of seven films
Speaker 1: for Kim, and Pulgasari was actually the last of those.
Speaker 1: So it's a standard Godzilla movie or what I mean.
Speaker 1: There's a rumor that the director secretly intended the monster
Speaker 1: to be a metaphor for Kim Jong il, and uh,
Speaker 1: that's pretty easy to take away when you look at
Speaker 1: the movies plot, which is all about this oppressed feudal society.
Speaker 1: It's eventually liberated thanks to the help of this monster,
Speaker 1: who the citizen's view is their benign hero. But in
Speaker 1: the end, the monster betrays the people. He goes on
Speaker 1: a rampage and the peasants he once protected. Then I
Speaker 1: have to rise up and destroy him. You kind of
Speaker 1: just spoil the movie for me, Mega and and for
Speaker 1: all of our listeners. You might need to put a
Speaker 1: warning at the beginning of this Christan But obviously there's
Speaker 1: a lot of hardship in North Korea, and for years
Speaker 1: now we've heard these rumblings of what life was like
Speaker 1: under Kim Jong ill and then under his son, Kim
Speaker 1: Jong Un. But you know, you think about things from
Speaker 1: food shortages to power outages, military conscription, slave labor camps.
Speaker 1: But despite the severity of these claims, many of us
Speaker 1: really don't know the first thing about North Korea, and
Speaker 1: for many of us, including exactly where to find it
Speaker 1: on a map. And so you can think of today's
Speaker 1: episode as a bit of a primer on the country.
Speaker 1: So we'll be looking at why the Korean peninsula split
Speaker 1: and arrival nations and how the Kim family use that
Speaker 1: to secure its enduring power. But we'll also take a
Speaker 1: closer look at everyday life in North Korea, including a
Speaker 1: few faint glimmers of hope for the future. But what
Speaker 1: do you want to start with, Mango, Well, I thought
Speaker 1: we could start with some of those basics you mentioned,
Speaker 1: like what and where North Korea is, So for starters,
Speaker 1: the country is officially known as the Democratic People's Republic
Speaker 1: of Korea, so d P R K and I think
Speaker 1: we'll still call it North Korea for the today's episode.
Speaker 1: Geographically speaking, North Korea is a relatively small country. The
Speaker 1: whole thing is roughly the size of Mississippi, and if
Speaker 1: you bust out your world map, you can look to
Speaker 1: either the left of Japan or the right of China
Speaker 1: and you'll spot the Korean Peninsula, which is made up
Speaker 1: of as you might expect, you know, North Korea on
Speaker 1: the top in South Korea on the bottom. And the
Speaker 1: last thing to know about North Koreas layout is that
Speaker 1: it's capital, the South, a city of Pyongyang, is the
Speaker 1: most developed and densely populated region of what is an
Speaker 1: otherwise largely rural country. So North Korea has about twenty
Speaker 1: five million citizens, and three million of them live in Pyongyang. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was actually reading where most of the country's government
Speaker 1: buildings and shopping districts are are located there, and as
Speaker 1: you might expect, most North Koreans of any kind of
Speaker 1: wealth or influence tend to live there in the capital.
Speaker 1: That's particularly in the fancy downtown area that's been nicknamed
Speaker 1: pyeong Hatton. And of course the residents they're enjoy all
Speaker 1: kinds of luxuries that the vast majority of citizens never
Speaker 1: really get to experience. And I'm not just talking about
Speaker 1: gourmet restaurants and fancy clothes either. I mean that's definitely
Speaker 1: part of it, but even something as basic as reliable electricity,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's really only reserved for the upper class.
Speaker 1: In fact, this is pretty interesting to look at. You
Speaker 1: can find pictures of this, but astronauts aboard the International
Speaker 1: Space Station have taken images of the Earth at night,
Speaker 1: and if you look at them, Pyongyang is the only
Speaker 1: part of North Korea that's really live it up, and
Speaker 1: it's it's really eerie to look at. But you see
Speaker 1: South Korea and China, they're both super bright, and then
Speaker 1: there's just this dark gap that blends right in with
Speaker 1: the Yellow Sea and the Sea of Japan, and you
Speaker 1: really can't even tell where the country's coastlines are, you know.
Speaker 1: Even that small patch of light that emerges from Pyongyang
Speaker 1: is it's kind of pitiful when you compare it to
Speaker 1: other places. According to NASA, that light emission from North
Speaker 1: Korea's capital city is really kind of the equivalent to
Speaker 1: that of small towns in South Korea, So it kind
Speaker 1: of gives you an idea of how technologically behind North
Speaker 1: Korea really is. Well, what's strange is that it's not
Speaker 1: really anything new to the region, right, Like, Korea has
Speaker 1: been called the Hermit Kingdom going back to as far
Speaker 1: as the eighties, and that was well before the nation
Speaker 1: split into a North and South. So the nation has
Speaker 1: always had a little interaction with its immediate neighbors like
Speaker 1: China and Japan, But otherwise Korea has kept to itself
Speaker 1: for the better part of a thousand years. And that
Speaker 1: really only started to change towards the end of the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century in Japan invaded and rudely took control of Korea,
Speaker 1: which it continued to subjugate and terrorize all the way
Speaker 1: through World War Two and just to make sure that
Speaker 1: we're all clear on our history here. Like, it was
Speaker 1: only after World War Two that the country split in two, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it was sort of like what happened with
Speaker 1: East and West Germany. Yeah, So the Allies had pushed
Speaker 1: hard for the entire Korean peninsula to go democratic after
Speaker 1: the war, but the Soviets opposed this because they thought
Speaker 1: I would reduce their influence in the region. So, just
Speaker 1: like with Germany, one half of Korea fell under the
Speaker 1: communist rule, that's the North, and the other half became
Speaker 1: a democracy. In South Korea elected its first president, and
Speaker 1: something different took place in North Korea. So that year,
Speaker 1: instead of a freely elected president, the former monarchy got
Speaker 1: its first totalitarian dictator. His name was Kim Il Sung,
Speaker 1: and he was a Korean Communist. He had strong ties
Speaker 1: to the Soviet Union, and during the build up to
Speaker 1: World War two, Kimen worked closely with the Soviets to
Speaker 1: wage all this guerilla warfare against the Japanese. And once
Speaker 1: the war was over, the Soviets knew they needed to
Speaker 1: install a puppet leader to you know, uphold their interests,
Speaker 1: and they're old friend Kimmel Sung just seemed like the
Speaker 1: perfect choice. It made total sense. You know, not only
Speaker 1: does this guy have communist leanings, but he could be
Speaker 1: portrayed as this authentic national hero because of his military service.
Speaker 1: All right, so we obviously lived through some of Kim
Speaker 1: Jong il, his son's reign. But but what was his
Speaker 1: dad like as a leader. He was also a dictator.
Speaker 1: So I was looking at the timeline here, and the
Speaker 1: very same year he took power, Kimmel Sung set to
Speaker 1: work building this ruling political party as well as a
Speaker 1: standing army with all his old pals from the guerrilla
Speaker 1: squads that he ran. And it wasn't enough for Kim
Speaker 1: to just have total control of the political and military might.
Speaker 1: He also wanted to control his culture, so he created
Speaker 1: this thing called the North Korean Federation of Literature and Art,
Speaker 1: and this was basically his propaganda arm You see this
Speaker 1: used in other places too, but he used this to
Speaker 1: put out state control media and art and to build
Speaker 1: his cult of personality and the propaganda it really portrayed
Speaker 1: him as this godlike figure throughout he was almost destined to,
Speaker 1: uh you know, transformed this abused nation into the socialist utopia.
Speaker 1: That's how it's depicted. And of course, in reality, Kim
Speaker 1: was doing just the opposite. But one thing we do
Speaker 1: know about Kim Il sung is that he invaded South
Speaker 1: Korea nineteen fifty and this wasn't an attempt to unify
Speaker 1: these two Koreas. Of course, he wanted to rule them
Speaker 1: both himself, that's right, and he didn't have the backing
Speaker 1: of Stalin and the Soviet forces, and that's what actually
Speaker 1: spiraled into the Korean War. The US jointed South Korea
Speaker 1: in the fight, and when the fighting finally ceased in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three, this was about after five million soldiers
Speaker 1: and civilian lives have been lost, there was no exchange
Speaker 1: of territory. There was no clear victor. Instead, the two
Speaker 1: Koreas signed this armistice agreement and they established this demilitarized
Speaker 1: zone between their borders. And since this basically amounted to
Speaker 1: a truce, there was no formal peace treaty between the nations.
Speaker 1: So the two Korea's they're still technically at war with
Speaker 1: one another even to this day. Oh, I didn't, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that. Actually, it's kind of wild to just
Speaker 1: speaking of weird facts around this, because not only has
Speaker 1: North Korea held onto the same war, for nearly seventy years.
Speaker 1: It's actually kept the same president as well. So how
Speaker 1: do you mean, because Kim Il sung died in four
Speaker 1: and then uh, Kim John Ill took over, and then
Speaker 1: he died in two thousand eleven. And I mean, now
Speaker 1: there's Kim Jong un in there, but they dress alike
Speaker 1: and they act like but those are different people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, of course that's true. I'm not not getting
Speaker 1: weird here with all of that. But after Kim Il
Speaker 1: sung died in the nineteen nineties, the North Korean constitution
Speaker 1: was amended, and they amended it so that they could
Speaker 1: declare him the eternal president. And actually this happened again
Speaker 1: after Kim Jong ill passed away, So both of them
Speaker 1: are now considered the eternal leaders of North Korea, you know,
Speaker 1: and poor Kim Jong un has to settle for just
Speaker 1: being the first secretary. And there's a term for this
Speaker 1: kind of setup. It's called a necrocracy, and that that's
Speaker 1: when a country still operates under the rules of a
Speaker 1: dead leader. And as you might guess, North Korea is
Speaker 1: the only one of those in the world. Well, it's
Speaker 1: a good term for scrabble, I guess. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's since you brought up funny titles, I do have
Speaker 1: to mention some of the really ridiculous ones that Kim
Speaker 1: Jong ill used to be called. So the state press
Speaker 1: typically referred to him as dear Leader, as he might
Speaker 1: have heard, and that's what it also called his father.
Speaker 1: But these are what some North Korean journalists have also
Speaker 1: called him, the Guiding Sun Ray, the ever victorious, iron
Speaker 1: willed commander, and probably my favorite dear Leader, who is
Speaker 1: a perfect incarnation of the appearance that a leader should have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they really covered all their all their bases with that one.
Speaker 1: You know, things like that are why so many of
Speaker 1: us on the outside holds such contradictory ideas about North Korea. Like,
Speaker 1: on the one hand, we know it's this highly militaristic
Speaker 1: nation that absolutely tramples on human rights, but then on
Speaker 1: the other hand, they are all these examples of really
Speaker 1: kind of over the top propaganda, these absurdly transparent posturing moves,
Speaker 1: and it just really makes its leaders seem somewhat cartoonish,
Speaker 1: to be honest. And for instance, I was reading about
Speaker 1: this fake village that North Korea built and the demilitarized zone.
Speaker 1: This was back in the nineteen fifties and it was
Speaker 1: just called Peace Village. Now, on the surface it seems
Speaker 1: pretty legit, but they're a bunch of well cared for buildings.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a school and a hospital, and according
Speaker 1: to the North Korean government, some two hundred families called
Speaker 1: the village home. But in reality, the whole thing is
Speaker 1: just this elaborate propaganda displayment to convince outsiders of the
Speaker 1: country's economic success, and its main purpose is really just
Speaker 1: to try to lure defectors from South Korea. And so
Speaker 1: there's actually this interesting right up that was in Slate.
Speaker 1: I'll just read this piece from it. It It says, viewed
Speaker 1: from a distance, Peace Village is unremarkable if a little drab.
Speaker 1: Look closer, however, and the trickery is revealed. Residential buildings
Speaker 1: have no glass in their windows, electric lights and unheard
Speaker 1: of luxury for rural North Koreans, operate on an automatic timer.
Speaker 1: The only people in sight are maintenance workers occasionally dispatched
Speaker 1: to sweep the streets in order to give the impression
Speaker 1: of ongoing activity. It's so crazy that they even bothered
Speaker 1: to keep up this shrade, right, I mean, North Koreans
Speaker 1: have to know it's like a prop town and that
Speaker 1: nobody actually lives there. Yeah, I mean, I kind of
Speaker 1: doubt anybody's falling for it, whether they're inside North Korea
Speaker 1: or outside North Korea. And you know, it's tough to
Speaker 1: say that with certainty since most North Koreans don't have
Speaker 1: access to journalists and likely wouldn't feel safe enough to
Speaker 1: speak freely even if they did. But we do have
Speaker 1: some estimates from North Korean defectors, and they claim that
Speaker 1: only around of the current population actually believes what the
Speaker 1: regime tells them. Oh, that's pretty wild. So we should
Speaker 1: definitely talk about what's driving that sea change. But before
Speaker 1: we do, why don't we spend some time on what
Speaker 1: it's actually like to live in North Korea? All right, Well, first,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. If you're listening to Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius and we're talking about the hidden secrets of
Speaker 1: life and the Hermit Kingdom, all right, mango, So we
Speaker 1: just discussed the propaganda village that North Korean officials used
Speaker 1: to try and pretend that all is well in their country,
Speaker 1: and now we want to give the flip side and
Speaker 1: talk about what life there is really like. But full
Speaker 1: disclosure on this I mean, it's not such an easy
Speaker 1: thing to do. The North Korean government goes to a
Speaker 1: lot of trouble to make sure that visiting journalists and
Speaker 1: curious tourists only see what it wants them to see.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you add to that that culture
Speaker 1: of silence that's been cultivated among North Korean citizens, you know,
Speaker 1: getting that clear picture of what life is like there,
Speaker 1: it really starts to look impossible. Yeah, that's definitely true.
Speaker 1: And I was reading a few accounts from people who
Speaker 1: have actually visited North Korea, and it was wild to
Speaker 1: see how controlled the experience is for Western tourists. Like
Speaker 1: when you first get to the country, you have to
Speaker 1: temporarily surrender all your personal electronics except for cameras, so
Speaker 1: cell phones, tablets, laptops, video games, all that gets turned
Speaker 1: over to border agents and then returned at the end
Speaker 1: of your trip. It's not just electronics, like books and
Speaker 1: magazines are another thing that also got confiscated at the border.
Speaker 1: I mean, I get that taking all the electronics is
Speaker 1: a way to prevent visitors from sharing information within the country,
Speaker 1: but but why would they take away books. I mean,
Speaker 1: the government isn't just worried about Westerners leaking secrets to
Speaker 1: the outside world. They're also worried about tourists sharing information
Speaker 1: with North Korean's it's in the government's best interest to
Speaker 1: keep the citizens as clueless as possible when it comes
Speaker 1: to what they're missing out on, as well as how
Speaker 1: the rest of the world views their country. I mean,
Speaker 1: in that case, I'm surprised they let people keep their cameras. Actually,
Speaker 1: I mean, the government is also pretty desperate to convince
Speaker 1: people that North Korea is normal, and I guess coming
Speaker 1: back from vacation without a single picture kind of undercuts
Speaker 1: that idea. But photography is still restricted, just like everything else.
Speaker 1: So tourists are actually a signed state approved tour guides
Speaker 1: reminders whose job it is to show you, like the
Speaker 1: authorized sites, they avert your gaze from the stuff you
Speaker 1: aren't supposed to see. I had a friend who went
Speaker 1: to North Korea and was told only to point his
Speaker 1: camera in certain directions. And these guys really stay on
Speaker 1: top of you pretty much the whole time, Like they
Speaker 1: even get their own rooms in whatever hotel you're staying in.
Speaker 1: I mean, so you basically have a babysitter the whole
Speaker 1: time you're in the country. There, and are you not
Speaker 1: allowed to explore on your own at all? No, your
Speaker 1: your itinerary has to be completely planned out and improved
Speaker 1: in advance, and you aren't allowed to deviate from the
Speaker 1: plan or even leave your hotel without the guide say so.
Speaker 1: This way, they can be sure that you only see
Speaker 1: what they want you to see, and there's no chance
Speaker 1: for you to like wander the countryside, or check out
Speaker 1: a rural town, or or even investigate how an average
Speaker 1: person lives. Instead, you're loaded on these buses and trucked
Speaker 1: around Pyongyang to all the tourist friendly landmarks and museums
Speaker 1: and monuments, and and those are the things that the
Speaker 1: nation's leadership really wants you to see and what they
Speaker 1: find agreeable. And while you're free to take photos of
Speaker 1: these attractions once you're on site, you aren't allowed to
Speaker 1: take pictures during bus rides between locations. And that's just
Speaker 1: because they don't want any evidence gathering about how poor
Speaker 1: and underdeveloped so much of the country is. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to say, this does not sound like a fun vacation.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'd be stressed out the entire time.
Speaker 1: I'm curious what kinds of places are allowed on these
Speaker 1: government approved tours. So one common stuff is called the
Speaker 1: Grand People's Study House. It's this pagoda style library is
Speaker 1: at the university in Pyongyang, and it's included on the tour.
Speaker 1: Not only is this impressive example of architecture, but also
Speaker 1: as a way to show how modern North Korean life is.
Speaker 1: Like there's this massive bank of computer terminals that the
Speaker 1: guides always point out, but the illusion doesn't always work.
Speaker 1: Like I was reading about the one time when all
Speaker 1: the lights suddenly went out in the library and there
Speaker 1: was all this panic effort to like kind of say
Speaker 1: face and get them back on as fast as possible,
Speaker 1: and for the people visiting, they said it seemed like
Speaker 1: the electricity was only used when the Westerners were there
Speaker 1: to see it. It's so creepy and just so strange.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing the computers are likely just for show
Speaker 1: in that case. But what about the books. I mean,
Speaker 1: if they confiscate knowledge at the border, I'm guessing the
Speaker 1: library shelves aren't exactly packed with good stuff. There's supposedly
Speaker 1: room for about thirty million books, but the actual collection
Speaker 1: seems to be much smaller than that, and most of
Speaker 1: us there is propaganda and North Korean literature, But there's
Speaker 1: also a decent stock of government approved foreign publications, just
Speaker 1: nothing too recent. So you can find like a whole
Speaker 1: shelf of Jane Austin books apparently, but very little from
Speaker 1: the last fifty years or so of Western literature. Plus
Speaker 1: you have to get special permission to check out foreign
Speaker 1: books anyway, Yeah, that's not not surprising. It sounds like
Speaker 1: a trip to North Korea mostly means a trip to
Speaker 1: the capital city, But do tours ever get a chance
Speaker 1: to visit some of the more rural areas well. It
Speaker 1: used to be that pyong Young was pretty much the
Speaker 1: only stop for tourists, but in recent years the guides
Speaker 1: have been allowed to take visitors to some of the
Speaker 1: more pleasant parts of the countryside. But even in those cases,
Speaker 1: you still get the sense that you're part of some
Speaker 1: elaborate hoax, or that things aren't quite as they appear.
Speaker 1: For example, I was reading about this trip on Atlas
Speaker 1: Obscura and and the author talks about the day when
Speaker 1: his tour group was bust into one of the rural
Speaker 1: provinces in the afternoon, and just listen to what happened. Quote,
Speaker 1: I visited a waterfall one time near case Song, where
Speaker 1: our group ran into a horde of uniformed school children
Speaker 1: on a day trip. Nearby, several families sang karaoke and
Speaker 1: danced beside a barbecue in the woods. It was an
Speaker 1: idyllic scene until I remember that it was the school holidays.
Speaker 1: The families were still there when we left. As we
Speaker 1: boarded our coach, the only other transportation insight was another
Speaker 1: bus featuring government issued number plates. It was hard not
Speaker 1: to conclude that we had been surrounded by actors all afternoon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said, the last thing was creepy, like this gets
Speaker 1: even creepier and performance art. It's so weird. I mean,
Speaker 1: it feels like the Twilight Zone episode where everybody has
Speaker 1: to smile and think happy thoughts or else they'll get
Speaker 1: banished to this corn field. But I mean, it really
Speaker 1: makes me wish we could hear directly from the North
Speaker 1: Koreans and get a better sense of what they're going through,
Speaker 1: you know, beyond the tourist perspective here in the meantime
Speaker 1: that I think we'll have to settle for foreign intelligence
Speaker 1: and the word of North Korean defectors. Just as an
Speaker 1: example of this, I mean, we know that life in
Speaker 1: Pyongyang and a few other cities is increasingly modern, but
Speaker 1: the vast majority of North Koreans still lack sick necessities.
Speaker 1: I mean things like access to heat and clean water,
Speaker 1: or you know, infrastructure like roads and all of that.
Speaker 1: I mean, they don't have access to this stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the roads are especially bad, and according to
Speaker 1: the CIA, only three percent of North Korea's roads are paved.
Speaker 1: So obviously citizens being able to travel freely isn't this
Speaker 1: top priority for them? In fact, it's estimated that there's
Speaker 1: only one car for every thousand people in North Korea.
Speaker 1: And I heard one expert say that owning your own
Speaker 1: car is pretty much what a private jet is to
Speaker 1: the ordinary American. Well, and you know, public transportation is
Speaker 1: available in the more urban areas as ancient and rundown
Speaker 1: as those busses and trains maybe, but bicycles are actually
Speaker 1: the main mode of transportation for most North Koreans. And
Speaker 1: this is largely thanks to the emergence of gray market
Speaker 1: trading over the last decade or two, and that finally
Speaker 1: made bikes more accessible and more affordable. And you know,
Speaker 1: before they were really viewed as something as a luxury item.
Speaker 1: But you know, nothing is easy in North Korea, and
Speaker 1: I do have to point out that North Korean women
Speaker 1: have been banned from riding bicycles since I think it
Speaker 1: was around nine six or so, and this was supposedly
Speaker 1: done in response to a senior officials daughter being killed
Speaker 1: in a bike accident, but there have also been statements
Speaker 1: made by state media about how women on bicycles are
Speaker 1: quote contrary to socialist morals. So I mean the band
Speaker 1: is really just this tool of control rather than any
Speaker 1: expression or any true concern for these people. Well, speak
Speaker 1: of control. You know those computer terminals I've mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: It turns out that they really can be used for something.
Speaker 1: So university students, government officials, and citizens who are wealthy
Speaker 1: enough to own a smartphone are all allowed to access
Speaker 1: the country's Internet. Did you say in trunnet or internet Internet?
Speaker 1: So North Korea's online service isn't actually connected to the
Speaker 1: Worldwide Web. Instead, they've gotten Internet, which is this self
Speaker 1: contained private network that grants access to state control media.
Speaker 1: So users have access to things like email, electronic national library,
Speaker 1: but they can actually only visit a handful of North
Speaker 1: Korean websites. And I really do immune a handful. So
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and sixteen, a list of the
Speaker 1: country's registered domain names was mistakenly leaked to the actual Internet,
Speaker 1: and uh, it turns out that there are less than
Speaker 1: thirty websites on their wow. But to be fair, you know,
Speaker 1: those two dozen sites or so do cover a lot
Speaker 1: of ground, everything from sports and news to food recipes.
Speaker 1: There's even some obscure type of social media that they use.
Speaker 1: But again, all this content is strictly regulated by the government,
Speaker 1: and there's no world news that makes it on there
Speaker 1: before being scrubbed. First. You know, when you look at
Speaker 1: at the population there, the majority of North Koreans live
Speaker 1: in extreme poverty and they're surviving on an average annual
Speaker 1: income of I think it's less than eighteen hundred dollars
Speaker 1: per person by most estimates. So it's not like that
Speaker 1: many people own a smartphone or the means to travel
Speaker 1: to a computer with online access exactly. But you won't
Speaker 1: ever hear the North Korean government own up to any
Speaker 1: of that. So listen to this statement that I found
Speaker 1: on the country's official website. This is what the leadership
Speaker 1: there would like you to know about their country. Quote
Speaker 1: the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers
Speaker 1: state in which all the people are completely liberated from
Speaker 1: exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers, and intellectuals are
Speaker 1: the true masters of the destiny and are in a
Speaker 1: unique position to defend their interests, which is always super convincing.
Speaker 1: When someone tells you out of the blue that they
Speaker 1: aren't being oppressed or exploiting anyone, You know, this is
Speaker 1: not suspicious at all. Yeah, not at all. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: as grim as things look for North Korea, there has
Speaker 1: been some evidence of progress in recent years, even if
Speaker 1: it's just a small amount of evidence. But I do
Speaker 1: think we should wind down the show by looking at
Speaker 1: a few of those glimmers of hope and and the
Speaker 1: forces that seem to be spurring them on. Sounds good
Speaker 1: to me. But first, let's take another quick break, all right, Mago,
Speaker 1: So let's talk about a couple of promising changes that
Speaker 1: are gaining steam in North Korean society right now. Now.
Speaker 1: One that I was surprised to find is that capitalism
Speaker 1: is gaining more of a foothold in the country than
Speaker 1: ever before. So just looking at the numbers here, as
Speaker 1: of this year, there are roughly four hundred and forty
Speaker 1: officially licensed markets in North Korea. Now that's double the
Speaker 1: amount the country had back in two thousand and ten.
Speaker 1: And the result of that growth is that, despite international sanctions,
Speaker 1: the economy and the overall quality of life in North
Speaker 1: Korea are actually both on the upswing. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's good news for North Koreans, But I'm kind of
Speaker 1: stuck on that number of markets you mentioned. What was
Speaker 1: it like four forty, Like, if the official population is
Speaker 1: million people, how on earth can they only have like
Speaker 1: that few hundred grocery stores, right, Like, I mean, where
Speaker 1: have they been getting their food all this time? Actually?
Speaker 1: I wondered that myself and what I found that and
Speaker 1: this is according to Reuters, roughly sev of all North
Speaker 1: Korean citizens rely on state controlled food distribution and that's
Speaker 1: their primary source of food, So not markets or subsistence farming,
Speaker 1: but actual government handouts. And the existence of such a
Speaker 1: program really points back to what's always been a major
Speaker 1: issue for North Korea, and that's the scarcity of food there.
Speaker 1: Now a lot of that problem can be traced back
Speaker 1: to the country's growing conditions. So North Korea has a
Speaker 1: ton of mountains and honestly, even it's flat terrain is
Speaker 1: is pretty the rocky and not really well suited for farming.
Speaker 1: Then you look at the climate there, I mean, the
Speaker 1: climate is pretty cold, and so it makes the growing
Speaker 1: season short. And you know, even on a really basic level,
Speaker 1: there's a lot working against these North Korean farmers. And
Speaker 1: so for decades, North Korea has managed to meet its
Speaker 1: food needs thanks largely to Soviet connections, you know, the
Speaker 1: ones that the Kim family forged back in the nineteen forties,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. And then you fast forward a bit, the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union collapses and that just takes down North Korea's
Speaker 1: economy and of course their food supply with it. So
Speaker 1: Russia emerges from the ashes, and it then decides to
Speaker 1: cut ties with North Korea almost completely, and so they've
Speaker 1: lost their biggest ally, their biggest trading partner in North
Speaker 1: Korean's were plunged into the worst famine in the nation's history.
Speaker 1: Now this was a massive, massive famine. It's estimated to
Speaker 1: have killed more than two million North Koreans. That's nearly
Speaker 1: ten percent of the total population. Now, it was such
Speaker 1: a disaster that state officials had no choice but to
Speaker 1: set aside that isolation as stands, and even request international
Speaker 1: aid for one of the first times in its history.
Speaker 1: So Ever, since then, food distribution has been handled almost
Speaker 1: exclusively by the government, and most of what's sold out
Speaker 1: is still coming from foreign food aid. But from what
Speaker 1: I understand, that system doesn't even seem to be working either, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I read this report that the u N put out
Speaker 1: last year, and they estimated that around eleven million North
Speaker 1: Koreans currently suffer from some form of malnutrition. And that's
Speaker 1: a full fort of the total population and roughly six
Speaker 1: of all North Korean children. Yeah, I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: heartbreaking situation, and the public belief in the government's propaganda
Speaker 1: campaigns has definitely declined as a direct result of these shortages.
Speaker 1: When the food went away during the Great Famine in
Speaker 1: the mid nineties, a lot of the public trust and
Speaker 1: support went with it and and really just never came back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of hard to buy into that
Speaker 1: glorious utopia you're supposed to be living in when there's
Speaker 1: nothing to eat, right, But you know, now that you've
Speaker 1: laid it all out, I can see why those markets
Speaker 1: you mentioned are such a big deal. I mean, if
Speaker 1: the country can sustain privately owned markets, that must mean
Speaker 1: there's enough food to stock them and enough people with
Speaker 1: money to shop there, right, Like that does sound like
Speaker 1: some sort of progress. Yeah, absolutely. I mean there's actually
Speaker 1: more to celebrate here too, because in addition to those
Speaker 1: sanctioned markets I mentioned, there are also you know, many
Speaker 1: more illegal street stalls. And while sanctioned markets have to
Speaker 1: pay a fee for that right to sell their goods,
Speaker 1: those pop up stalls allow private citizens to make a
Speaker 1: little bit of money without any direct benefit to the government. Now,
Speaker 1: these stalls are known as grasshopper markets because of how
Speaker 1: quickly the vendors have to set up and take down
Speaker 1: the stalls just to avoid being detected. Really, but the
Speaker 1: hope is that the ongoing growth of these markets, both
Speaker 1: legal and illegal, will give rise to a greater feeling
Speaker 1: of community among North Koreans and kind of a sense
Speaker 1: that they're individuals that are connected through this shared experience
Speaker 1: and interest and not just cogs in this authoritarian machine.
Speaker 1: So I actually found another reason to be hopeful about
Speaker 1: this budding autonomy that we're starting to see over there.
Speaker 1: And you know that gray market network you mentioned, the
Speaker 1: one that North Koreans are getting their bikes through well.
Speaker 1: The other big sellers are consumer electronics and personal media,
Speaker 1: so we're talking smartphones, tablets, radios, DVDs, USB drives. These
Speaker 1: are all sold preloaded with content, and more and more
Speaker 1: of these items are being smuggled in from South Korea
Speaker 1: and China every single day, and since the North Korean
Speaker 1: economy is seeing relative growth right now, more people than
Speaker 1: ever are finding ways to get their hands on this stuff.
Speaker 1: And so not only is this providing North Koreans with
Speaker 1: some much needed entertainment, it's also giving them a glimpse
Speaker 1: into the world outside their borders. And the more of
Speaker 1: this information is shared among friends and neighbors, less power
Speaker 1: are full of the state propaganda becomes yeah, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that's a good thing for all of us, really,
Speaker 1: because you know, I don't know if you've heard this
Speaker 1: or not, Mengo, but North Korea actually has a pretty
Speaker 1: successful nuclear program going on in there. I feel like
Speaker 1: it's been in the news a couple of times, but
Speaker 1: it is easy to forget this, but that nuclear capability
Speaker 1: was really a product of North Korea's isolation. So the
Speaker 1: country was completely shaken by events in the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 1: you had the Soviet collapse, the Great Famine, all these
Speaker 1: imposed sanctions, lots of trading partners, I mean, the list
Speaker 1: goes on and on. But as North Korea began to
Speaker 1: look more and more like a failed state, foreign intervention
Speaker 1: started to seem inevitable. And so the North Korean leadership
Speaker 1: was terrified that the United States or whoever else was
Speaker 1: going to swoop in at any moment and just topple
Speaker 1: the regime and take over. And that really is what
Speaker 1: led the country to make what's called the nuclear choice.
Speaker 1: And so they dusted off the nuclear program that had
Speaker 1: been started under Soviet supervision back in the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: and they really doubled down on the one thing that
Speaker 1: was guaranteed to make potential invaders thing twice. Now, that
Speaker 1: decision for North Korea to go its own way is
Speaker 1: what allows the country's people to be ruled with such
Speaker 1: a tight grip. So it is pretty exciting to hear that.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a growing number of North Koreans that
Speaker 1: are finding ways to look outward again. And of course
Speaker 1: nothing is guarantee, they're no quick fixes for our country's problems,
Speaker 1: but pulling away from that central government and really connecting
Speaker 1: more on an individual level. It does seem like a
Speaker 1: good place to start for, you know, some form of revolution.
Speaker 1: Well here's hoping. And you know, since we've been talking
Speaker 1: about how access to food and new technologies have shaken
Speaker 1: up things in North Korea, I did want to quickly
Speaker 1: tell you about a story I found that combines both
Speaker 1: of those things. So for starters, did you know that
Speaker 1: North Korea got his first ever pizza place back in
Speaker 1: two thousand nine? Didn't? Apparently Kim Jong Ill had this
Speaker 1: lifelong dream of opening a pizzeria in North Korea, and
Speaker 1: even at a team of Italian chefs slown in back
Speaker 1: in the Es, they taught some local chefs their pizza
Speaker 1: making secrets, you know where they were asking these very
Speaker 1: specific questions like how many olives do you put on
Speaker 1: a slice? And eventually this led to the opening of
Speaker 1: the first North Korean pizza parlor. And you know, being
Speaker 1: the ever victorious, iron willed commander that he was, Kim
Speaker 1: Jong Ill came up with the perfect name for this
Speaker 1: new jewel crown of his restaurant empire. He called it
Speaker 1: Pizza Restaurant. That is truly inspired. I mean I tell
Speaker 1: you his creativity knew no about. Yeah, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: why he's president for eternity. But anyway, the thing about
Speaker 1: pizza restaurant is that almost nobody can afford to eat there,
Speaker 1: Like even a decade later, and with multiple other pizza
Speaker 1: rios on the scene, the average cost of pies, you know,
Speaker 1: between five and ten dollars. And while that doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like much to us, you have to remember that North
Speaker 1: Koreans make less than two grand a years, so ten
Speaker 1: bucks is like a serious investment for most people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really speaks to what a mess their
Speaker 1: leaders have made there. I mean, if pizza, of all things,
Speaker 1: can be a luxury delicacy there. But I mean, now
Speaker 1: that we're all up to speed on the state of
Speaker 1: North Korean pizza, well, what's the story you wanted to
Speaker 1: tell about food and tech? So there's this South Korean artist,
Speaker 1: his name is Juan Kim, and earlier this year he
Speaker 1: was in the news for smuggling contraband into North Korea.
Speaker 1: Al Right, well, let me guess he was somehow smuggling
Speaker 1: pizzas across the border or what. No, I mean, that
Speaker 1: would be great, like across the border, but when he
Speaker 1: was actually smuggling where five DVDs of a home cooking
Speaker 1: show he had produced called Pizzas for the People, And
Speaker 1: it was kind of an act of resistance, meant to
Speaker 1: make citizens questioned the status quo, because you know, in
Speaker 1: the middle of all these cooking tips and at home
Speaker 1: pizza hacks, you know. Kim also raised the question of
Speaker 1: why only certain citizens in North Korea can afford to
Speaker 1: eat pizza, and Atlas Obscura actually explained some of this.
Speaker 1: They're right quote. Pizzas for the People is a cooking
Speaker 1: show slash fake documentary series that follows several South Korean actors.
Speaker 1: The film is intended to be a highly stylized satire
Speaker 1: of North Korea, where you need to be part of
Speaker 1: the political elite to eat pizza. But his films also
Speaker 1: asked the audience to imagine the unthinkable. What if Northkorea
Speaker 1: became democratic? What mechanisms will be at play in this transformation,
Speaker 1: and what will North Koreans do with their new found freedom.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty cool idea. And is there any word
Speaker 1: on how the message is being received or is that
Speaker 1: kind of feedback impossible to know given the state of
Speaker 1: things there. Yeah, I mean, it's tough to judge the
Speaker 1: impact long term, but the project is pretty new at
Speaker 1: this point. Kim has said that smugglers eventually brought him
Speaker 1: back some fan mail from North Koreans who would watched
Speaker 1: the video, and the best part is that many of
Speaker 1: these fans included photos of themselves posing along with their
Speaker 1: homemade pizzas. So if nothing else, Kim's videos are giving
Speaker 1: some people their very first taste of pizza and and
Speaker 1: that's a win in itself. I think, yeah, and progress
Speaker 1: is progress, and it feels like you've got to start somewhere.
Speaker 1: But well, in our case, I think we should probably
Speaker 1: in there for today sort of on a positive note
Speaker 1: and and move into the fact off sounds great. H So.
Speaker 1: One of the stranger exhibits in North Korea is the
Speaker 1: International Friendship Exhibition Hall, which houses this massive collection of
Speaker 1: gifts given to Kim Il sung and Kim John Yelle
Speaker 1: by various communists and despotic regimes. And the hall has
Speaker 1: over a hundred thousand gifts, according to Alice Obscura, including
Speaker 1: railway cars from Mao and Stalin, a full size bronze
Speaker 1: tank from the USSR, this jewel encrusted sword, from Ara
Speaker 1: Fat there's a giant bare head. It's mountain on a pillow.
Speaker 1: But perhaps the most surprising gift in these halls is
Speaker 1: the one that Madeline Albright gave. It's a basketball signed
Speaker 1: by Michael Jordan's and, as one of the hall guards
Speaker 1: told a reporter quote, when the general plays with that ball,
Speaker 1: it proves that he controls the whole world in his hand,
Speaker 1: just like Jordan's. Yeah, just like alright. Well, one of
Speaker 1: North Korea's biggest exports is actually giant statues, and this
Speaker 1: of course makes sense when you consider how invested in
Speaker 1: propaganda North Korea is. So the statues, murals, and reliefs
Speaker 1: in North Korea are all produced by one group known
Speaker 1: as the Man Sude Art Studio. Now that's been serving
Speaker 1: Kim's propaganda needs since like nineteen fifty nine, I think,
Speaker 1: and actually as a staff of over four thousand people.
Speaker 1: But they also take commissions from dictators and regimes around
Speaker 1: the world. That looks like they've produced statues for governments
Speaker 1: in Benine Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo, I think there
Speaker 1: were two giant Robert Mugabe is waiting to commemorate his death,
Speaker 1: and apparently the studio has earned tens of millions of
Speaker 1: dollars for North Korea through this art. That's fascinating. So
Speaker 1: one of the more bizarre things to me is how
Speaker 1: many tunnels North Korea has had in waiting. There are
Speaker 1: four quote tunnels of aggression, and they're meant to move
Speaker 1: thirty thousand soldiers per hour through them to flood into
Speaker 1: South Korea in the case of war. And these are
Speaker 1: just the ones that have been discovered, but they lead
Speaker 1: right into the country. So for years North Korea had
Speaker 1: denied they existed entirely, and then once they were forced
Speaker 1: to admit they've built all these tunnels, they started claiming
Speaker 1: they were just coal mines and they start rubbing all
Speaker 1: this black coal dust on the walls masket. Of course,
Speaker 1: no one was buying it. But what's funny is that
Speaker 1: nowadays the South has totally taken advantage of these tunnels.
Speaker 1: Visitors can actually go on tours from the South Korean
Speaker 1: side and even visit gift shops along the way before
Speaker 1: hitting a concrete barrier that they've put up to separate
Speaker 1: the two countries. Wow. Well, just because they're not totally
Speaker 1: invested in electricity doesn't mean North Korea doesn't have a
Speaker 1: bunch of scientists hard at work on doing unbiased research.
Speaker 1: So according to a two thousand eleven government study, North
Speaker 1: Korean scientists discovered that quote China is the happiest nation
Speaker 1: in the world, followed by North Korea, so their second
Speaker 1: on the list. Now, weirdly America came in dead last.
Speaker 1: And how science works that way, I guess once we
Speaker 1: handed over that Jordan side ball, you know, I guess
Speaker 1: things are the trigger I think about that. So here's
Speaker 1: one of the strangest stories I've heard, and it's from courts.
Speaker 1: But apparently in two thousand and fourteen, Alessandro Ford was
Speaker 1: the first foreigner allowed to do a study abroad in
Speaker 1: North Korea. His dad is a European diplomat and he
Speaker 1: helped coordinated this whole thing. But Ford's experience was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: So according to him, the facilities were totally bare. They
Speaker 1: had squat toilets and no showers. Everyone bathed communally like Romans.
Speaker 1: He said. Uh. The dorm also ran out of hot
Speaker 1: water for two weeks during the winter when it was
Speaker 1: frigid cold, so that that was difficult. But he said
Speaker 1: the students had a lot of interesting insights. Apparently they
Speaker 1: hate the American government, but they're okay with American people.
Speaker 1: They just feel like they're merely misled. Um. Most of
Speaker 1: them think prison camps are just re education camps. And
Speaker 1: as he put it and made it sound like they'd
Speaker 1: missed doing their math homework so they have to make
Speaker 1: up with some extra classes afterwards. And they're particularly fascinated
Speaker 1: to learn that some countries don't have compulsory military service.
Speaker 1: To them, that's totally mind blowing and just completely baffles them.
Speaker 1: They also have questions on how does home ownership work,
Speaker 1: because again that's all handed to you by the government.
Speaker 1: They can't even imagine this. But one thing that's fun
Speaker 1: to look through is the slogans that North Korean's came
Speaker 1: up with for the seventieth anniversary of the country back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen. I think they rolled out
Speaker 1: like three hundred new ones. And here are some of
Speaker 1: my favorites. As reported by the BBC, let us turn
Speaker 1: the whole country into a socialist fairyland by the joint
Speaker 1: operation of the army and the people. That seems like
Speaker 1: a great slogan. Let this socialist country resound with the
Speaker 1: song of Big fish hall and be permeated with fragrant
Speaker 1: smell of fish and other seasons and then my absolute
Speaker 1: favorite as good as those where we are the happiest
Speaker 1: in the world, which of course the government's own study
Speaker 1: showed was wrong because North Korea is the second in
Speaker 1: the world. That's a good point. And I think you
Speaker 1: in this round since you found the one error in
Speaker 1: their propaganda, and you know it's the only one. Congrat
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And that's it for today's Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius. Of course, there's so many more great facts
Speaker 1: about North Korea. We would love to hear those from
Speaker 1: you guys, and of course if any of our listeners
Speaker 1: have ever been to North Korea and want to share
Speaker 1: some of those experiences, you can always reach us part
Speaker 1: Time Genius at how stuff Works dot com or us
Speaker 1: up on Facebook or Twitter, or from Gabe, Tristan Mango
Speaker 1: and me. Thanks so much for listening, Thanks again for listening.
Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of How Stuff Works
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