WEBVTT - Part One: Abortion and its Defenders: From Weimar to the Bay 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:06.760 Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:11.360 Cool Stuff, your weekly reminder that not everything that people 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.480 have done in history is bad. Sometimes people do good things, 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.560 usually against the bad things. I'm your host, Margaret Kildoy, 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.120 and with me today is my guest Samantha McVay. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:23.000 Hello. 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.240 Hi, you're host of the also stuff related podcast Stuff 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.400 Mom never told you. Very good. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.840 I am a host of that show. How are you? 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:32.920 It's been so long? 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.200 I know it has been way too long. I'm okay. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.680 I had a lot. Everyone's like, this bitch hasn't been 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.120 on me. I'm this bitch hasn't been on the show 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:47.519 for like weeks because I took a vacation, and so 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:49.640 now I'm back and I love it. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.320 I feel like I've been at the beginning. I was 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.040 at your first episode, which wasn't supposed to happen because 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.080 but then we had that whole like the world is 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.560 awful and Rob Wade shot down essentially, and I was on, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.920 and then I felt like I came back on not 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.680 too long after. I feel like it's a yearly thing, 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.560 and I loved that tradition because I get to see 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.440 you at least once a year, which is not enough. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:15.080 But it's I'm I'm glad I get to see you 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.600 at all, and that is Zoom is the main way 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.880 I came with my friends. I have a totally normal 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.960 social life on the mountain that I live on. Uh, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:24.160 you know. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:25.959 What, I'm in Atlanta and I don't get out either, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:27.840 so it's okay, yeah, fair, I'm with you. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.880 Yeah, I like having the excuse. You know. It's like 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.320 I used to like traveling in countries where I didn't 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.560 speak the language, partly because I could just like sit 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.680 at dinner with like ten people around and have no 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.120 idea what NAMEE was talking about. But I like understood 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.520 why I felt left out. Whereas when I go sit 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:45.800 at a table with like ten people and everyone speaking 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.720 this language I speak, I'm like, it's cool, I don't 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:50.800 know how to socialize this. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.160 Fine, Yes, that's the awkwardness of being at either situation 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.960 gives me anxiety either way, So I'm like, why why 0:01:58.160 --> 0:01:59.680 just stay at home? Just stay at home? 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:04.440 That's fair? Well, also with us on this Zoom call 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.320 is the one and only producer I've ever had on 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.919 this show, and I won't hear any word otherwise. Scharene 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.600 sure y, Hi Markt Hi, Samantha. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.000 Wow, I love this trio. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.200 Yeah, Sarine, It's been also a very long time, and 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.280 I feel like we're also on a timeline because I 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.920 believe the first time we met it was around February before, 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.280 right before the pandemic. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.800 You're not wrong. It was in twenty nineteen. I'm pretty 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.880 sure it was twenty nineteen, but I'm not sure what 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.880 the month was. Yeah, it's a pretty yearly interaction. You'll 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.079 only exist once a year. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.720 That's okay, that's the way I like it. Please don't know. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.560 I'm a year except for that one time a year, 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.120 and hopefully it's for good shows like these. 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.480 Yeah, I think you'll like this this week's episode. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.640 I think I think this is a Samantha episode. 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:54.760 I'm excited. I'm excited. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.079 Yeah, I'm so excited. Whenever you say that, I get 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.320 so excited because I know, first of all, you know me, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.920 and I love that bit of me. And then also 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.160 because with all the world being awful, I loved to 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.040 hear what you're going to tell me because I know 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:08.840 there's some badass people, but I'm going to be so 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:10.200 excited about that. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.400 Is the main thing that I hold on to with 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.320 the fact that everything is awful is that the types 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.160 of people that I talk about on the show are 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:20.040 still here, and people become those people when bad things happen. 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.480 One of our cool people is Danel, our audio engineer. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.520 I nice Hi Hi Daniel. Everyone's to say hi to Danel. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.320 Sorry for cat raises. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.680 Yeah, sorry for all they editing. Our theme music was 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.480 written for us by unwoman, So saman the last time 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.360 we had you, not last time, the first time we 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.800 had you on. We talked about abortion access and it 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.960 was right before the house of cards called Roe v. 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:47.720 Wade fell down. That should not have been a house 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:49.920 of cards because the Democratic Party never did anything to 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.280 short up since it's precarity has been and continues to 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:54.760 be one of the only ways they can get anyone 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:56.920 to vote for an outdated capitalist party that essentially no 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.120 one under the age of forty actually supports true story. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.360 That's my I like it. 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.400 I'm over forty, but I also am. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:05.160 Too, honestly. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.280 Yeah. 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.320 We talked about the Jain Collective, primarily a group of 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.520 women in Chicago who, coming out of socialist feminist traditions, 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.200 set up a network that provided illegal abortions safely for years. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.479 We talked about a bunch of other abortionists. During the 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.960 era of illegality in the United States, no one writes 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.479 the word abortionists. I have a feeling I'm using like 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.400 a word that people aren't supposed to use. I think 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.479 you're supposed to say abortion providers, because like abortionists is 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.159 like a bad word. But I'm kind of like, whatever, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.800 it shouldn't be a bad word. It's people who provide. Like, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:36.640 that's great. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.159 Exactly you say. I don't know if I've ever heard it, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.719 but I like that you're saying it. Okay, great, it 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.760 might be maybe it's just old timey. I hope it's 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.159 just old timey. If you're listening and you are an 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.360 abortion provider and don't want to be called an abortionist, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.720 I'm kind of sorry. I actually am sorry, because I 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:57.599 think you're doing something incredibly brave and important. Anyway, this week, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.080 I've got two more stories for you about two different 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:06.200 places and times. Vymar Germany, which was the brief period 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.760 where Germany was a republic between World War One and 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:13.000 the rise of the Nazis, and then those decades in 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.279 the US, the brief golden era of the US when 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.479 the US is a republic, you know, when when abortion 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:19.919 was legal in all fifty states in. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:20.560 The United States. 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.760 Oh got cha. I was like that what when? Oh? 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.680 Okay, yeah, I like it between Roe v. Wade and 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.800 the now Yeah the now. Yeah. So we're gonna talk 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.800 about vymar Germany. We're gonna talk about California, two places 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.280 that punk's write songs about. I have no other connections 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.360 to draw between these two places. Good connection, both have 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.400 punk No. Vymar Germany, well, they were pretty punk anyway whatever. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:50.239 Bymar Germany Okay, okay, bymar Germany was a wild place, 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.400 like do you know much about I don't know how 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.480 cultural zeitgeist vymar Germany is. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.520 Like, yeah, I would not know. I do not know, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.760 And I'm right for those because I'm like who win when? 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.800 Okay, okay, let's go. So this is the era of 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.360 like Cabaret, like that movie. This is the era of 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.480 like Weimar. Germany was a really wild place in one 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.719 of the most interesting times and places in history. It 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.559 was incredibly progressive and incredibly politically engaged in all kinds 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:26.119 of directions, and it is, you know, basically nineteen twenties Germany. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.919 It's nineteen eighteen to nineteen thirty three. Okay, everyone was 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.400 fucking starving, and everyone was fucking traumatized. They had just 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.800 lost this war that they shouldn't have been in, and 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.760 it's kind of their fault, but wasn't What wasn't like 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.520 the random german on the street's fault, you know, right right, 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.279 and during the nineteen twenties, so it's like famous for 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.080 all the like well cabaret culture and all the like 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.800 decadent art type stuff that's happening in a collapsing society, right, 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.200 But there's also this wild political fighting going on between 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.919 anarchist communists, social democrats, monarchists, and fascists. Like all of 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:02.960 these different groups are like, no, I'm going to be 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.000 in charge. Now, I'm gonna be in charge, and they're 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.840 all getting into fights in the street about it. Culture 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.560 was blooming. You have the first LGBT research center and 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.960 gender affirming care facility in Western history, including like the 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.760 first gender a firming surgeries for trans women and things 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.320 like that which happened at the Institute for Sex Research, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.400 which if people want to hear more about, they can 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.200 go and listen to our episode about gay resistance to Nazis. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.280 We talk all about that place and time. It's real 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.200 neat except for the fact that I think this is 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.080 a little bit more commonly known. You know how like 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:43.560 all the famous photos of Nazis burning books, all of 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.840 those photos are of them burning books about transness basically, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:52.239 and like LGBT stuff because they torched the world's first 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:58.240 LGBT resource center. Anyway. Yeah, that's the fun part of 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.800 like all of histories, is a dance between action and 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.800 reaction and like positive and negative forces, and like I 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.120 hate to think of things dualistically, but there's like bad 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:07.920 stuff and there's people who fight the bad stuff. 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.280 It's almost like they went too far to the left 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.120 or to good and they had to ricochet all the 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.040 way to bad, you know what I mean. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.000 Which is what I'm afraid is what's happening right now 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:19.480 in the units. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:20.760 I just want to say, I feel like we're playing 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.400 we're playing that out they play out right now. 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.960 In the US. So yeah, basically, they're like and everywhere, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.880 what do you mean gay people can get married and 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.280 we let like people of other you know, races and 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.800 ethnicities like co exist peacefully. Can't have that? How dare you? 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.840 It was in its way, The Viimar Republic was in 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.360 its way, very progressive society, but the laws hadn't necessarily 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.679 caught up yet with society's viewpoints. Birth control and abortion 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.920 were both illegal. Abortion was illegal everywhere in the Western 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.800 world at this point except for the USSR. The Revolution 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.240 legalized abortion, and then Stalin was like just kidding and 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.559 got rid of it. But during this period abortion is 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.320 legal in the USSR. And so you've always awesome folks 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.800 living in Germany. You also have clearly less awesome folks 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.360 who are going to take power in about ten years 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.800 and they're like, well, how do we have abortions and 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.680 talk about birth control when it's illegal? Who will do 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.480 these crimes with and for us? Elsewhere in the Western world, 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.760 at least in the US, where I've done more research 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:26.320 about it, the answer to who will organize crime is 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:33.600 usually organized crime right kind of famously in the US 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.360 for decades, probably at least a century, if you wanted 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.280 an abortion, you went to a mafia doctor. Even the 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.960 Jain collective, who we all love as heroes, their first 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.560 doctors were almost certainly mafia. And don't want to conjecture 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:53.840 too hard with people who are still alive. Also, we 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.320 talked about on our Stonewall episode and this is really 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.120 just this whole episode is just to like go back 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.319 and listen all these other episodes. We talk on the 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.960 Stonewall episode about how the old gay clubs were mafia 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.280 run back in the day. So like most places, the 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.160 mafia was the one providing the services that people needed 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.240 and were not available legally. Right, there's another group that's 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.439 really good at organizing crime. You ever heard of a 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.000 narco syndicalism? 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.199 No, please explain? 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.200 Yeah, Like, like one time, when I first became an anarchist, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:25.240 I went and I was like hanging out with my 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.000 family and they're like, well, what do you believe? And 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.360 I was like, well, have you ever heard of syndicalism? 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.920 And everyone like turns to my grandfather, who's like the 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.360 like wise old man or whatever you know, and he 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.520 like looks really deep in thought and he rubs his 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.120 chin and he goes, Now, there's a word I haven't 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:40.840 heard in a very long time. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:43.199 Real ominous. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:49.360 Yeah. So syndicalism, it's a worker's movement. It still exists. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.560 Syndicalism is a worker's movement that believes in forming workers' 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:57.079 power through unionism, through forming unions, right, and it's as 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.200 a way to build a better society. It's like not 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:05.439 reformist unionism and arcosyndicalism, which is a very large branch 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.760 of the syndicalist movement in many countries, is the majority 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.360 of it many countries. It's not many countries, syndicalism is 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.560 more communist and arcosyndicalism believes in doing syndicalism in order 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.240 to create a society without capitalism in the state, where 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:22.760 like workers' councils collectively create society and fit form all 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.839 of our needs and things like that, and arcosyndicalists have 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.160 this like from a labor movement point of view, they 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.800 have this reputation as like the wild radicals, right, who 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.920 are a little too into direct action and they all 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.840 hate voting and shit, you know. For the rest of 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.720 the anarchist movement, they're like kind of bureaucratic and boring, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.360 is the sort of reputation that they have because they're 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:50.280 very organized. Okay, so they're perfect for this role. The 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.080 union part gives them the organizational skills, the anarchist part 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:58.480 gives them the affinity for crime. So in Weimar Germany, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.960 abortions were done by lay organizations, that is, they were 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:08.040 done by not doctors, not even like clinics necessarily, and 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:13.000 these organizations, they weren't branded as an arcosyndicalist, but their 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.400 leadership and their organizing principles came from that part of 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.360 the labor movement. Basically, the women and sometimes men of 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.280 the anarchosyndicalist movement were like, well, here's a need, we 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.120 know how to organize crime at large scale. That's what 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.920 we do usually it strikes and sabotage and things like that. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.479 And then they left off the branding of like anarchism 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.360 and syndicalism because this was about reproductive health first and foremost. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.040 And so they set up all these organizations and I'm 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.480 just like, I'm now off script. I'm so fucking interested 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.040 by this because there's like, well, I'll just okay, I'll 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:52.360 just get into it. This organization was done on a 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.680 fucking massive scale, Like I'm not I love Jaane Collective 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.160 right right, that's like one city and one clinic right. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:05.880 In nineteen thirty alone, these lay organizations performed a million 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.559 abortions in Germany in one year. 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:08.320 Damn. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.720 There was roughly one hundred and fifty thousand people in 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.120 these organizations. They worked out of two hundred locations. Wow, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:21.000 there was two hundred Jane collectives right right that were 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.559 syndicated together. They were unionized together. About fifteen thousand people 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.680 were like the really active participants. I ran across both 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.240 the one hundred and fifty and the fifteen thousand numbers. I'm 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.240 under the impression one hundred and fifty thousand is the like 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.880 the broader overall activist support, and fifteen thousand would be 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.760 like people who are like more directly like, this is 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.680 what they do, you know, they're very active. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.560 Yeah, yeah, they I'm a still high number, I know. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.880 And what they did they weren't just like, hey were 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:53.480 the abortion organization, right. What they did was that they 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.680 were like, hey, we're the following minor crime organization. We 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.880 are the sex education and birth control organization. We pass 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.640 out contraceptives, We hold meetings where we talk about birth control, 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.280 which is all like illegal and shit, but it's it's 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.800 like kind of illegal. It's like, ah, ah, you caught me. 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:17.280 I was given out condoms again. Ah, I'm not bad. Yeah, 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.720 but it's not really a secret that this above ground 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.080 but still a llegal organization was where people went when 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:30.000 they needed abortions. They also didn't charge money for abortions. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:36.600 Oh wow, a million fucking I just for ten years, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.040 one hundred and fifty thousand people came together to organize 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:45.760 the entire country's abortion service illegally, safely and free. Theyized 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.120 they used anarchist organizing principles and anarchist organizers, but they 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.440 didn't label their organization as an anarchist thing, and not 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.160 everyone engaged with it would have identified as an anarchist right, 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.280 And it's fucking like unknown it at least in English language. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:01.560 Shit. 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:03.440 I learned about this a year and a half ago 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.200 when I was actually doing research for the episode that 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.160 I did with you last time. I found the like 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.360 one sentence version that was like, oh, and by the way, 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.640 there was like two hundred clinics doing a million abortions 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.760 a year in Germany that the syndicalists were running. And 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.120 I'm like, can you can you tell me more about 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.160 this thing? That's more impressive than anything I've ever read 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:20.600 in history? 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.800 That it performed over a million abortions? Yeah, how long 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:27.080 did they exist? 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.560 So we'll talk a little bit about but it's like 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.680 I think that they ebbed and flowed. We're talking about 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.240 roughly nineteen twenty four to nineteen thirty three. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.400 Wow, that long. That's pretty impressive. I know that's not 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.400 that long in real time, but in my head, for 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.880 an organization like this, with an issue like that, it 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.760 seemingly is a little longer than I would have assumed 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.240 for underground or aimation. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:56.240 Like this totally, and so I spent the past year 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:57.960 and a half trying to find out more information about 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.360 this fucking thing. There is one seven page paper written 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.560 about it in English by Deeter Nell's called it does 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.480 not have a very entertaining name. It's called anarcho syndicalism 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.600 in the sexual reform movement in the Weimar Republic. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.800 I mean, it's on the nose, right right to the point. 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.800 Let's go. Yeah, Germans tend to be very literal namors. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:19.120 I like it. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.640 Yeah, okay. So we talk a lot about abortion and 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:24.880 birth control in this show, about people fighting for the 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.760 right to control their own bodies and their own reproduction. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.160 What's interesting that we have to wrap our heads around 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.080 every single time we try and cover any of these issues, Like, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.040 for example, when we try and cover like trans issues, 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.960 you can't just be like, oh, in eighteen eighty there's 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.360 this translating and mean the same thing that you mean 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.720 when you say in twenty twenty four, right, because our 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.800 social conceptions around these things, around sex and gender and 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:50.040 all kinds of things are constantly shifting, and people are 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:55.520 fighting for bodily autonomy, but how people frame that fight 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.480 changes over time, and it hasn't always been the same. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.119 I'm kind of curious when in your work with like 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:07.720 because you all did, I mean, you all did a 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.800 Jane episode, And I'm just kind of curious, like how 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.679 much you when you talk about like old feminism, how 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.280 often do you have to engage in and talk about 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.080 eugenics and like how big of a problem this was 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:18.440 in the old feminist movement. 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.440 Right in general, when we talk about intersectionality and we 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.800 have to talk about the ugly parts of this, especially 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.560 today when we talk about white feminism and what that 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.159 looks like, and of course eugenics can be under that 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.080 as well. We kind of understand the background of planned 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.320 parenthood and the conversations we have about that because we 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.920 praise planned parenthood, but we also know that there's some ugliness, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.560 as we talked about previously, yeah as well, So overall, like, yes, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.320 we talk about the dark side of all of it, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.440 which makes us kind of bad guys to everyone. And 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.360 I say we Annie and I who is the other 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.480 co host, because I have been called out for saying 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.320 things that they feel are offensive because they don't want 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.919 to be associated with that type of feminism when in 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.040 actuality it still is so when we talk about like 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.480 abortion rights, but then when we talk about sterilization against 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.480 the people women of color specifically, and what that looks 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.120 like and why they did it, people don't really want 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.320 to hear that truth because they don't want to face 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.679 the fact that, yes, this is an argument against abortion 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.280 rights in a way, not really, but it can be 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.920 turned to that point that we've had this many conversation, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.879 but we have to be understanding and sensitive to the 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.960 fact that when it comes to reproductive rights, we're talking 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.960 about every part of it being right, whether it is 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.880 choosing to have a child or choosing to abort a fetus, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.400 like those are two different things, but the same side 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.959 of the coin type of thing, I guess, so we 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:53.600 talk about it in realms of yes, we're uncomfortable because 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.160 for me, even though I'm a woman of color, I'm 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:01.399 also you know, very headonormative sis gender in that level. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.320 So I have to talk about being uncomfortable when it 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.880 comes to talking about LGBTQ rights in general or any 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.040 queer rights in general. But like I'm now just having 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.679 this long dip about this, but because it's not simple. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.000 It is simple, and it isn't simple when it comes 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.120 to the fact that people want to bend what they 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:27.000 think is their true rights or true beliefs. And now 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.600 oftentimes sometimes if you're a person who have any type 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.400 of privilege, then that means that you are taking advantage 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.399 you could be you're probably taking advantage of someone else 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.440 who are in the marginalized community when you do these things. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.080 Does that make sense that yeah, no, no, no, it 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.280 makes sense because like you think that your frame with 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.120 which you understand things is the correct one and the 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.840 only one, the universal frame, especially when you are in 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.679 the like when you are in the privileged position you 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.840 are presented when you are the default of something, right 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:02.840 as like a as like a white person, I am 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:04.639 the default, but as a trans woman I am not 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.359 the default of that. You know. But you know what 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.840 else is really uncomfortable being supported by advertisers on an 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.639 anti capitalist show. So that thank you, Transition So here's 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.000 some of those unless you have cooler zone media, in 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.360 which case your money went directly into my dog's football 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.399 and you don't have to hear ads. But here they 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:38.880 are anyway, and we're back. 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.159 I'm still laughing at that transition, thank you. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.080 Yeah, Okay. So one of the things that I really 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.320 struggle with talking about kind of what you're talking about 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.199 is is that we have to talk about the unfortunate 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.000 opinions that many early birth control pioneers had about eugenics. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.880 And we also have to talk about how eugenics wasn't 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.440 necessarily always a right wing talking point. It was an 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.680 everyone talking point for decades, which doesn't make it okay. 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.920 Is the thing that we you basically have this dark 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.760 half a century between Darwin is like, evolution is real, 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.479