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Speaker 1: Welcome back to It's a Numbers Game with Ryan Gradusky.

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Speaker 1: Thank you again for being here this week very special episodes.

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Speaker 1: So right before the end of the year, the New

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Speaker 1: York Times released a very important story about immigration, immigration

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Speaker 1: being the number of net migrants that came in during

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's presidency. Net migration, of course, is the number

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Speaker 1: of new immigrants who come to a country subtracted by

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Speaker 1: those who have left, so that's where the net comes in.

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Speaker 1: And the number of the net migrants that came in

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Speaker 1: during Joe Biden's presidency from twenty twenty one to twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three averaged two point four million per year two

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Speaker 1: point four million overall. During Biden's first three years with presidency,

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Speaker 1: it was about eight million total. That's the Esmen number.

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Speaker 1: Eight million is larger than the population of thirty seven

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Speaker 1: US states. It's essentially like adding the state of Washington

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Speaker 1: to the overall population again, a new state of Washington.

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Speaker 1: All those people from diverse backgrounds into the country over

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Speaker 1: a four year period, it was, according to the New

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Speaker 1: York Times quote, the fastest pace of arrivals than during

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Speaker 1: any other period, including the peak years of the Ellis

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Speaker 1: Island it's the fastest rapid change of the country since

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty when illegal immigration remains a large part of

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Speaker 1: the story. Legal immigration and executive actions like special programs

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Speaker 1: to bring thirty thousand migrants a month from places like Venezuela, Haiti, Colombia,

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Speaker 1: and Cuban Nicaragua are also added into it. It's a

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Speaker 1: mixture of legal immigration, executive action, and illegal immigration. No

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Speaker 1: doubt that this was a very big reason why Trump won.

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Speaker 1: No doubt that part of the backlash towards the Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris presidency vice presidency, this was the surge of population.

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Speaker 1: Because with that many new people comes a drain on resources,

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Speaker 1: certain criminality, housing crisis, a lot of things followed all

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Speaker 1: this surge of people, both legal and illegal. So it

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Speaker 1: comes into question now that Donald Trump is approaching the

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Speaker 1: presidency in just a few days, what can he do

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Speaker 1: about it? What can he do to actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: govern with his presidential mandate on immigration. Part of that

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Speaker 1: is put into two different boxes, right, legal immigration versus

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Speaker 1: illegal immigration, and another box is Congress what their responsibility is,

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Speaker 1: what they have to do to help Trump achieve his agenda,

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Speaker 1: and what he could do on his own. Those are

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Speaker 1: the essential questions he will be looking at his administration

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Speaker 1: will be looking at going into the initial first few days,

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Speaker 1: going into the first month. That will be essential. And

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Speaker 1: my first guest on this podcast ever, knows a lot

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Speaker 1: about this because he was in the trenches the first

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Speaker 1: time around. Back during the first term of the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: THEO Wolds served as the Deputy Assistant at the President

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Speaker 1: for Domestic Policy under Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner. He

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Speaker 1: currently serves as a Solicitor to General for the Graces

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Speaker 1: of Idaho, and he knows about more about this than

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Speaker 1: basically anyone in the world. So thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: on THEO. Thanks for adming Ryan so in an honor

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Speaker 1: to be your first guest. Thanks for you well with you.

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Speaker 1: You're a smart guy, and I know your time is valuable,

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Speaker 1: so I really appreciate it THEO. What are some executive

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Speaker 1: actions that the presidents oversaw during the first term of

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Speaker 1: the Trump White House when it comes to immigration. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we know the big ones like remain in Mexico and

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Speaker 1: the travel ban, but what would you say were like

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Speaker 1: some things that didn't make the cover of the New

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Speaker 1: York Times or at people on MSMB screaming MSNBC screaming

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Speaker 1: about that were essential for Trump to achieve any real

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Speaker 1: gains when it came to immigration, both illegal and legal,

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Speaker 1: and you think we're notework.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well so the first place I'd start is just

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Speaker 2: to say, one of the central thesis that we had

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Speaker 2: in the Trump administration on immigration policy in one point

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Speaker 2: zero in Trump forty five was really this simple question

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Speaker 2: that a mutual friend of ours, Ryan first gave to me.

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Speaker 2: And I would repeat this almost as a yoga mantra,

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Speaker 2: which is who decides who decides who's coming into the

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Speaker 2: United States and under what terms? And how long are

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Speaker 2: they going to stay for? And when you start to

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Speaker 2: ask that question as sort of like the governing principle

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Speaker 2: of any immigration action you want to take to expand

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Speaker 2: immigration as some people like Lindsay grant that proposed over

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Speaker 2: the years, or to contract it like some of our

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Speaker 2: friends at Center for Immigration Studies have often advocated for.

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Speaker 2: When you start to ask that question, then you really

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Speaker 2: get a view of how little the average American or

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Speaker 2: their elected representatives in Congress know or understand about the

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Speaker 2: year to year immigration flows. And I think that's great

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Speaker 2: that you started with net migration, because again, it will

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Speaker 2: come as a shop And I do this experiment quite

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Speaker 2: often when I speak to to lay groups here in Idaho,

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Speaker 2: just you know, your local rotary club or a group

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Speaker 2: of Republican dentists or something, and I'll say, you know,

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Speaker 2: how many legal we're not talking illegal, but legal immigrants

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Speaker 2: came into the United States last year? And usually, you know,

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Speaker 2: they'll throw out a number of like five hundred thousand,

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Speaker 2: and it will come as an absolute shock to your

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Speaker 2: average American that legally we let in about one point

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Speaker 2: five million people every year, or as you said, you know,

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Speaker 2: to give another example of this, a city the size

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Speaker 2: of San Jose is added to the United States every

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Speaker 2: year and the composition of that one point five million.

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Speaker 2: Some of them come under the EB five EB three visas,

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Speaker 2: which are investor visas. They open a business or they're

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Speaker 2: willing to put up so much capital in the United

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Speaker 2: States so they get a greedy card.

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Speaker 1: Some are coming through family immigration status. The bulk is family.

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Speaker 1: That's change. The bulk is the bulk by far is

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Speaker 1: family migration.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but some come through means like the diversity of

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Speaker 2: the lottery, which is often talked about. You know inside

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Speaker 2: the Beltway, inside Washington, d C circles, But the average

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Speaker 2: American has no idea that fifty five thousand legal immigrants

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Speaker 2: come to the United States every year who have no

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Speaker 2: prior ties, they have no famine.

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Speaker 1: Why say, somebody for diversity vis the lottery explain that.

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Speaker 2: So the diversity thes The lottery was a concoction of

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Speaker 2: in large part Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer in the

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Speaker 2: early nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 1: It was meant to power brain trust that learned to

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Speaker 1: trust in Washington. Always, Chuck Schumer, go ahead, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When they're gaining up, it's always going to be a

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Speaker 2: good result for the American people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so their view.

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Speaker 2: Ted Kennedy had a particular obsession with increasing immigration from

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Speaker 2: Ireland because of the way the immigration flows were structured

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Speaker 2: at that time under the Heart Seller Immigration Act in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties, which essentially did away with some of

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Speaker 2: the migration caps, the ethnic or racial caps that were imposed.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty, he bring some flows to the entire world.

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Speaker 2: Ted Kennedy thought that Ireland was really losing out on

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Speaker 2: its possibilities of increasing net migration into historic Irish American

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Speaker 2: cities like Boston, and so the Diversity Lottery was designed

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Speaker 2: to ensure that nation states that have low representation in

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Speaker 2: our overall immigration flows, either because of family chain migration

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Speaker 2: or the investor visas or the short term labor employment visas,

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Speaker 2: that the Diversity Lottery is meant to target those nation

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Speaker 2: states increase their overall representation almost if you will, DEI

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Speaker 2: for our nation's immigration system.

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Speaker 1: And well, and then I asked you a question. Is

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Speaker 1: Ireland still represented in that number? Yeah? Oh cool, not

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Speaker 1: at all. Wait a minute, they have a long term

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Speaker 1: vision there, Teddy Kennedy. So who does come on the

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Speaker 1: diversity visa.

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Speaker 2: It at It's a great question. So just last week

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Speaker 2: I had an Uber driver who was from Sri Lanka

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Speaker 2: and I have some interesting tie to Srila.

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Speaker 1: Got my wife and I honeymoon there, for example. And

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Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, oh, Sri Lanka.

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Speaker 2: You know, when I was in Sri Lanka, not many

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Speaker 2: people actually knew much about America. But you know, they

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Speaker 2: thought we were British because of the traditional Commonwealth connections

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Speaker 2: to England. And he said, yeah, yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 2: came here kind of on luck. And I said, what

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Speaker 2: do you mean by luck? He said, I'm a winner

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Speaker 2: of the Diversity Lottery. Oh, how did you know to

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Speaker 2: apply for that? Well, my neighbor, he and his wife

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Speaker 2: had applied for it for years and they told us

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Speaker 2: about it. He never won, but I put my name

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Speaker 2: in and first time I got chosen. And that's what

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Speaker 2: the Diversity Lottery is doing, right. Fifty five thousand people

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Speaker 2: a year, no prioritized, no family connections here, don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: have to speak the language, have any understanding about our civics,

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Speaker 2: our form of government, the constitution. And that is by

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Speaker 2: design how the Diversity Lottery chooses these people. And by

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Speaker 2: and large, the Diversity Lottery will cap participation of nation

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Speaker 2: states that are overrepresented. So you will not get any Mexican,

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Speaker 2: Mexican nationals, Chinese nationals, Indian nationals winning the Diversity Lottery.

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Speaker 2: You will see Kazakhstani's, Huzbaki's, Sri Lankan's, Bhutanese. Those are

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Speaker 2: the kinds of people. Nepalese are big winners in the

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Speaker 2: versus lottery. And then a lot of countries, Well I.

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Speaker 1: Did with that, our Appleleese nationals right, And the biggest

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Speaker 1: defenders of the Diversity Lottery today is the Congressional Black Caucus.

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Speaker 2: They see it as a non negotiable item because often

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Speaker 2: the versity lottery will come up in these discussions about

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Speaker 2: comprehensive immigration reform. Well, let's take those fifty five thousand,

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Speaker 2: you know, diversity latter of visa slots and turn those

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Speaker 2: green cards into more H one b's or something. And

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Speaker 2: the Congressional Black Caucus will say, absolutely not, because those

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Speaker 2: fifty five thousand year year really increased the overall share

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Speaker 2: of African immigration into the United States, and.

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Speaker 1: They feel like by bringing in more black people as

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Speaker 1: better representation for them, because most Black members represent black

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Speaker 1: majority districts overwhelming They did right, right, And this is

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Speaker 1: the this is the feature that is so often overlooked.

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Speaker 2: And Ryan, I think you're you're very, very unique in

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Speaker 2: this respect, which is seeing the connection between immigration policy

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Speaker 2: and the raw brass tacks of electoral politics and Congressional

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Speaker 2: Black Caucus members, as you said, they want to see

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Speaker 2: the increase of the African diaspora because that will increase

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Speaker 2: their percentage share of seats and also the power of

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Speaker 2: their of their representation for their constituency in Congress. So

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Speaker 2: you know, the point about raising the diversity lottery is

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Speaker 2: here's this little rabbit ward of a visa class that

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Speaker 2: most Americans have no idea about, but fifty five thousand

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Speaker 2: over ten years starts to be pretty significant.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Let's just say, for example, let's just take a random

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Speaker 2: visa class here, you know, just just a random one,

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Speaker 2: and we say, oh, well, you know, look, the American

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Speaker 2: people have nothing to worry about because this random visa

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Speaker 2: class is capped eighty five.

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Speaker 1: Thousand a year.

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Speaker 2: And let's say this visa class is dedicated to improving

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Speaker 2: high skilled.

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Speaker 1: Workers in the visa first.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, we could say, hypothetically we called Bagman

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Speaker 2: b people say, well, there's there's nothing to worry about, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: because it's just eighty five thousand people a year. And

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Speaker 2: this is part of the game that the policy makers

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Speaker 2: and the immigration open borders lobby play with the American people,

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Speaker 2: which is it's eighty five thousand year, but one individual

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Speaker 2: visa in that eighty five thousand is good for six years.

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Speaker 1: And so the next greeneryard you can then switch from

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Speaker 1: from visa to green card, from green cartesses and then

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Speaker 1: through family migration, sponsor a whole village. Eventually.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, right, even staying within the terms of

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Speaker 2: those eighty five, it's eighty five this year, and eighty

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Speaker 2: five next year, and eighty five the year after that,

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Speaker 2: and so very quickly that eighty five thousand, they said,

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Speaker 2: don't worry, you're pretty little little head about because it's

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Speaker 2: just eighty five thousand quickly becomes six hundred thousand people, right,

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Speaker 2: or you know, very quickly becomes as you noted, net

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Speaker 2: migration two point two million a year, or a city

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Speaker 2: the size of Houston coming into the United States every year,

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Speaker 2: taking jobs, taking social services, crowding our schools, crowding our

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Speaker 2: emergency rooms. And look like where I live in Idaho,

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Speaker 2: you know, the second fastest grossing state in the country.

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Speaker 2: We don't have the infrastructure to support American citizens, let

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Speaker 2: alone the influx of assylies and refugees who are coming

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Speaker 2: into into the state, coming into the country. So on

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Speaker 2: the numbers alone and the pathway you just named, I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: this this sort of myopic focus that has happened on

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Speaker 2: the last two weeks on H one B, I've kind

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Speaker 2: of found amusing because the real pathogen in this whole

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Speaker 2: chain of displacing American workers starts with the student visas.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the pathway. Is no one avertars to the

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Speaker 1: student visas you're listening to. It's a numbers game with

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Speaker 1: Ryan Gerdsky. We'll be right back when you talk about

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Speaker 1: Idaho and how fast Idaho is growing, and many cities

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Speaker 1: have experienced this giant influx, especially during the Biden presidency

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Speaker 1: because he let the whole world in. Everyone talks about

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Speaker 1: housing primarily as a demands issue. We don't build enough houses, sorry,

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Speaker 1: as a supply issue. They don't talk about as a

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Speaker 1: demand issue that there were so many more new people

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Speaker 1: per year asking for housing that it's a course causing

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Speaker 1: prices to rise excemely high in some metro markets. It's

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Speaker 1: not just a supply issue. It is a demand issue

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Speaker 1: primarily driven by immigration. And there's other things that go

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Speaker 1: into this. I don't want to focus completely on that,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that's a big part of it, as well

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Speaker 1: as the plethora of visas like the student music you mentioned, So.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right on the demand side. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to wear the tinfoil hat here, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's reasonable at this juncture to say, well,

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Speaker 2: who are the biggest backers for expanding legal immigration? And

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Speaker 2: when you go through the numbers and the recipients either

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Speaker 2: of these short term labor visas or the people who

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Speaker 2: expend the most resources in Washington lobbying for expanding the

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Speaker 2: visa carve outs. Remember this is another number here. There

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Speaker 2: are over one hundred and eighty five separate visa classes

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Speaker 2: and categories. One hundred and eighty five. I mean there's

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Speaker 2: a visa for ice dancers and cardival cruise ship performers,

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Speaker 2: right right, There's a visa nearly for everything. So the

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Speaker 2: people who are always looking to expand the nexus of

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Speaker 2: those visas and to expand the total numbers that are

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Speaker 2: issued year to year, they often turn out to be

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Speaker 2: the same people who are buying up residential neighborhoods, who

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Speaker 2: are speculating in the.

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Speaker 1: Creation of new apartment buildings.

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Speaker 2: And the question I get asked all the time here

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Speaker 2: in the Boise metro area with the construction of new

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Speaker 2: apartment facilities and the building of all these new suburb

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of flop, you know, suburban homes. Is

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Speaker 2: who's coming to live in these? And you look and

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Speaker 2: see who the financiers and who the constructors are, and

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Speaker 2: it's black Rock, It's Vanguard. I mean, just as people

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Speaker 2: have long started to figure out, and who are those

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Speaker 2: people advocating for not the American worker, those are some

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Speaker 2: of the people, the biggest fish advocating for expanded short

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Speaker 2: term visas and expanding the F one, the M one,

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Speaker 2: the J one, the H one, B and so they're

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Speaker 2: filling the apartments with short term and seeking immigrants. Well,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's sort of an unbreakable cycle, if you will.

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Speaker 1: Now going back to the original question, is there anything

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Speaker 1: a lot of those things are done by Congress. Is

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Speaker 1: there anything the executive branch can do on its own,

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Speaker 1: the press can do on its own when it comes

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Speaker 1: to immigration, when it comes to maybe making the threshold

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Speaker 1: to qualify for those visas much harder. Yeah, here, here's

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Speaker 1: like a couple of basic things. So at the very

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Speaker 1: end of the administration the last year and a half,

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Speaker 1: the President asked me to essentially rewrite the Immigration and

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Speaker 1: Naturalization Act, you know, all several thousand pages of it,

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Speaker 1: and typical Trump fashion, he said, dude, in two weeks.

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Speaker 1: But you can hire, but you can hire.

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Speaker 2: Whoever you want to help you to you, okay, And

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Speaker 2: so you know what I asked around, We've got some

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Speaker 2: of the best people on on sort of our side,

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Speaker 2: if you will, work in Congress, on the Committees of

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Speaker 2: Judiciary and Senate and the House, some of the folks

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Speaker 2: who are embedding the civil Service at DHS, and we

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Speaker 2: really did do a significant rewrite. I mean, we took

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Speaker 2: the text from the beginning to the end, and look,

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Speaker 2: I mean the inventory of the oddities, you know, the

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Speaker 2: vast discrepancies in the actual text, the statutory text of

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Speaker 2: the Immigration and Naturalization I mean, it would make a

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Speaker 2: lot of your listener's eyes glaze over. But for policy

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Speaker 2: and legal wanks, it would shock people to know how

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Speaker 2: porous and how indefensible a lot of what we think

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Speaker 2: are ironclad statutes statutory text in that in the overall Act,

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Speaker 2: how really broken they are. But a couple of the

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Speaker 2: things that we really worked on to give you an

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Speaker 2: example in this this answers your question. Ryan. Back in

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Speaker 2: the nine to eleventh Commission report, which seems like ancient history, now,

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Speaker 2: there were a number of do outs that the nine

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Speaker 2: to eleven Commission asked Congress to pursue, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of them, no surprise, had to do with legal immigration, because,

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Speaker 2: as it's often sort of bandied about on x and

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Speaker 2: social media.

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Speaker 1: You know, the nine to eleven.

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Speaker 2: Hijackers were all legal immigrants to United States. They were

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Speaker 2: given visas and came into this country, uh, totally legally,

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Speaker 2: and so ronos do outdate pass the visa? Which is

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Speaker 2: which is which is honestly, fifty three percent of our

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Speaker 2: illegal immigration population used to be around sixty two percent prior.

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Speaker 1: To people who are legally allowed to come and then

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Speaker 1: oversaw their visas and they get it and never lost Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you ever leave, and then Democrats will later beg

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Speaker 1: that we give them some kind of legal status even

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Speaker 1: though they violated the terms under which the American people

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Speaker 1: originally allowed them to come into the country in a

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Speaker 1: first place. Right, that's right? So what are the do

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Speaker 1: outs from the nine to eleven Commission?

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Speaker 2: Was very simple and it was modeled after what a

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Speaker 2: lot of our peers do around the world, which is

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Speaker 2: the concept is called to push the boundaries, the borders

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Speaker 2: of the United States out And what does that mean, Well,

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Speaker 2: you know in Australia, and Australia is really not, you know,

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Speaker 2: the poster boy for great immigration policy anymore.

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Speaker 1: They used to be.

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Speaker 2: But Australia doesn't allow anyone to board a Quantus or

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Speaker 2: British Airways airplane headed for Sydney unless you have a

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Speaker 2: verifiable proof of visa or documentation that you have been

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Speaker 2: granted asylum. The United States doesn't do that. Anyone could

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Speaker 2: get on an airplane coming to JFK or LAX, show

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Speaker 2: up and then say, oops, I claim asylum or OPSI

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Speaker 2: I bought this ticket, but I don't actually have a

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Speaker 2: visa to be here. And so the idea pushing the

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Speaker 2: borders out is to say the State Department, in conjunction

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Speaker 2: with EHS, when folks come for their visa adjudication, for

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Speaker 2: their appointment, to argue or to pursue the paperwork to

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Speaker 2: get a visa, they need to provide us with biometric

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Speaker 2: information upfront, collect the biometric information and ryan. It sounds

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Speaker 2: so simple, but if you do this, the number of

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Speaker 2: people who will drop out of the process because they

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Speaker 2: know they're coming to gain the United States. They know

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Speaker 2: our system is incredibly permial. So just saying you know what,

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Speaker 2: if you show up at a consulate or an embassy

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Speaker 2: requesting a student visa or travel visa, We're going to

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Speaker 2: take all of your biometric information here, and now we're

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Speaker 2: going to know who you are. The amount of fraud

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Speaker 2: that occurs in our system when Ryan Gurdusky, uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: makes an appligation at the state department at a consulate

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Speaker 2: let's say Poland or Slovakia and is not the actual

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Speaker 2: Ryan Graduski who shows up an lax. So verifying the

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Speaker 2: online identity of the applicant with the person who actually

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Speaker 2: arrives in you as another big f exit. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, look, here's another one that we can do

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Speaker 2: very quickly, which is to say no status adjustments.

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Speaker 1: And this is right, this is a part part of

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Speaker 1: the innovation. Just explain what status adjustment is, right.

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Speaker 2: So status adjustment, let's say, you know, back to that

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Speaker 2: H one B pipeline we were discussing a moment ago.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the H one B population actually comes

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Speaker 2: into the country originally on an F one or an

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Speaker 2: M one student visa, and they're attending you know, we

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Speaker 2: like to think that all these people are BRAINI acts

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Speaker 2: at Harvard, but in many cases they're at fake diploma mills.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was a great bust under the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration in Virginia. It was a Virginia Polytechnic Institute for

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Speaker 2: Computer Science, and it was a diploma mill in the

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Speaker 2: basement of a seven eleven in a and though it

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Speaker 2: was a totally fake institution.

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Speaker 1: That's the question. How some of these universes go bankrupt

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Speaker 1: Like Bernie Sanders's wife friend of college, they ran bankrupt,

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Speaker 1: Like how did you manage to bankrupt the college? They

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Speaker 1: give you free money, and you can bribe visa holders

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Speaker 1: across the world really and they'll pay full freight full

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Speaker 1: really horrendous business model. You got there, uh, missus Sanders? Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: So that's and once they get there.

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Speaker 2: They so they come in on their their F one,

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Speaker 2: on their student visa, and then their employer, let's say,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're they're sponsored for a summer internship or something,

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Speaker 2: and says, you know, it'd be really great if you

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Speaker 2: could make this application for the OPT program, the Optional

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Speaker 2: Practical Training Program, which was originally designed to help America

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Speaker 2: provide agricultural sciences like it basically like a subsidization and

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Speaker 2: augmentation to the Peace Corps and is really now part

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Speaker 2: of this the tech worker pipeline. And so they have

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Speaker 2: to adjust their status. They're here on an F one,

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Speaker 2: they have to apply to DHS in the State Department

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Speaker 2: and say I would like now to be considered for

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Speaker 2: one of the openings in this optional practical training program.

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Speaker 2: And from optional practical training, then they'll make a status

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Speaker 2: adjustment application to say I'd like to now apply for

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Speaker 2: an H one B, and could I And then the

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Speaker 2: final as you noted a moment ago, is the final

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Speaker 2: sort of chain in the status adjustment pathway is to say, well,

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Speaker 2: I have an H one B, I'd like to be

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Speaker 2: considered now with the sponsorship of my employer, to adjust

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Speaker 2: into a green card. And once you have a green card,

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Speaker 2: five years to citizenship. So one thing we could say

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Speaker 2: is just like, hey, look the gig is up. No

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Speaker 2: more status adjustments, or you can only do status adjustments

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Speaker 2: this percentage of people every year and only if you.

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Speaker 1: Are willing to put up this kind of capital.

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Speaker 2: And my personal favorite, the one I keep advocating for,

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Speaker 2: is you hand over all of your personal banking information

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Speaker 2: to us because you want to solve overstays real quickly.

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Speaker 2: You say, every time you open an account in this country,

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Speaker 2: a credit card, a banking account, the United States government

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Speaker 2: is going to garnish any money that you earn or

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Speaker 2: spend until you leave right so like look like you're

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Speaker 2: you're not supposed to be here, you overstayed, You're welcome,

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Speaker 2: and when you open an account, you get a paycheck

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Speaker 2: that's going straight to the US taxpayers because they didn't

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Speaker 2: agree for you to be here.

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Speaker 1: And you'll see people really very quickly start to leave

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Speaker 1: the country. And that's so so smart because people constantly

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Speaker 1: say when they think of massy portations, uh Ilion Gonzalez,

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Speaker 1: where we're going to have you know, troopers break into

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Speaker 1: a boy's bedroom with guns pointed him in the closet.

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Speaker 1: And what it really is is making sure people leave

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Speaker 1: by making their lives inconvenient when they're breaking the law,

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Speaker 1: brazenly breaking the law. What about illegal immigration, which is

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Speaker 1: the one that everyone talks about, but I mean you

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Speaker 1: mentioned extending the extending the Bayrier, the borders the United States.

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Speaker 1: That's really what Remained in Mexico did to a necessarily

434
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 1: exactly yeah, that's exactly right.

435
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: That was that was having worked on Remain in Mexico

436
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 2: and spent you know, years of my life working on it,

437
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: that was I was absolutely the understanding pieces there, which was,

438
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: let's make this somebody else's problem. If they're if they're

439
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 2: not willing to defend their own borders and allowed caravans

440
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, Chinese nationals to traverse their airways

441
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: to come into our country. Then we'll say no longer,

442
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: are you able to immediately declare uh, you know, asylum

443
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: of refugee status once you touch American soil, you're you're going.

444
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: To be adjudicated in due time. In due time, but

445
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: we're not.

446
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: Releasing you into the interior United States. You can wait,

447
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: and you can wait where you came from, which is

448
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: usually through Mexico, and we'll get to you, and we

449
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 2: get to you. So that same concept I mean with

450
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: illegal immigration. I think what you just said, that's one

451
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: of the crucial pieces. I mean, you know, as a

452
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 2: big you know, power fan, I mean, Powell was laughed

453
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: at in the sixties and seventies for this idea of

454
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: incentivized repatriation, which is probably more generous than I think

455
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: is necessary under current circumstances. But Pale said, you know,

456
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: everyone's got a price, right, and a lot of these

457
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: immigrants would be willing to return to Ceylon, you know,

458
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: to Rhodijia, to wherever. If we if we just said, look,

459
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: here's two thousand dollars two thousand pounds, you know, just

460
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: for inflation, but two thousand pounds and you can go home.

461
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: Episodes. I'm already bring up Enoch Pal. This is going

462
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: to be out there. Yeah.

463
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: No, but but like, but the same notion here is

464
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: to say we're sort of like what we call, you know,

465
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: the kill switch on the financial system, is to say,

466
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: it's a little less good for you to be an

467
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: illegal alien here, a little bit better for the American citizen.

468
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: And so we're going to shut off your ability to

469
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: earn illegally in a shadow economy, to earn an income

470
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: on the backs of American workers. And so it's not

471
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: a raid. It's not guys in you know, kevlar vest

472
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: with you know, heavy arm and storming into someone's house.

473
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: It's just saying, hey, you.

474
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: Know, your ability to freeload off of the American people

475
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: ended yesterday, right. A lot of a lot of immigrants

476
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: will actually return when they realized they can no longer

477
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 2: defraud the American people in the shadow economy.

478
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a really important part that people.

479
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: People listen. A lot of immigrants are very nice, and

480
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: a lot of immigrants work very very hard. There's a

481
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: ton of the every minute. I don't have anything against them,

482
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: but people one, they'll sell the lie that immigrants don't

483
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: take any welfare at all, where if they have a

484
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: child here and the child goes to school, they're definitely

485
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: using government taxpayer money for that. If they go to

486
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: the hospital, if they go to prison, if they use

487
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: our roads, if they use any of our systems whatsoever.

488
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: It is a drain on the tenet taxpayers. What the

489
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: taxpayer is putting out there. They don't pay income tax

490
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: most of the time, they pay sales tax or where

491
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: the hell it is, but not an income tax. And

492
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: also the fact is if they have a child, the

493
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: child then has the ability to enroll in every welfare

494
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: program under the sun. That's right, And that's what people

495
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: don't see is they don't have They're like eligal immigrants

496
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: don't take welfare, no, but their children that they bear

497
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: into this country do. As I mentioned before, Biden created

498
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: this program for Cubans, Haitians, Venezuelans and Nicaraguins to come

499
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: in thirty thousand months to sit here and apply for

500
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: legal status. Well they did that because he didn't want

501
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: them rushing the border anymore. They just flew them into

502
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: the country, and they just diverted the flow to in

503
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: different category. I'll tell you something wild. This CDC just

504
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: prot of the number five percent of all births from

505
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: non Hispanic Black women in this country were from Haitian

506
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: born women. Last year of Venezuelans having children increased by

507
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: five hundred percent in a one year, because specifically, they

508
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: know that this is their ticket to never being deported,

509
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: never or getting part of the American welfare system, or

510
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: having a footal where the kid can sponsor them for

511
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: chain migration through family migration, family visa. All of this

512
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: is very much how they know the system and how

513
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: they rig the system, and they know the system better

514
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: than the average American knows the system.

515
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think here's a little shorthand tip for

516
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: your listeners to educate themselves, to empower them in their

517
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: discussions with elected officials or when their score keeping at

518
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: home on who to believe you trust on this issue.

519
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: You'll hear a lot of.

520
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: Members of Congress say, hey, I'm with you Ryan, and

521
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 2: hey THEO, I'm with you on this immigration issue. And

522
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: how you know how byzantine it's become, how how it's

523
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 2: diverted by all these special interests. But look, I gotta

524
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: have you know, my my my agricultural guys in my

525
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: district got to have workers, my roofers, construction guy for

526
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: and constantly rot in the field. Yeah, you gotta have labors.

527
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: And here's the easy test at this juncture in our

528
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: nation's history. I'm not saying this is this is ideal.

529
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: I'm not saying this is what I want. But I'm saying,

530
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: at this point, you want to take the temperature of

531
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: these kinds of elected officials, and you say, great, then

532
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: get your dairymen, get your apple picking crews.

533
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: Get your slaughter house guys, and let's all agree that

534
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: you can have your short term labor visas your H

535
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: one is your H two b's and everyone will agree

536
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: there's no more birthright citizenship. Right.

537
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: They will piss and moan, they will fight tooth and nail,

538
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: and they will oppose any change.

539
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: To birth right slationship. And that's how you know they're lying, because.

540
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: If they say, well, they're just short term workers, no, no, no, no,

541
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: they're human beings, and human beings do human things. They

542
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: form relationships, they have babies, and once those babies become

543
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: American citizens, then you have now subverted the demographic trajectory

544
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: of the country. You have created wards of the state

545
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: who are entitled to entitled it spending welfare and the like,

546
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: and changed and the right to vote. So if they

547
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: were serious about short term labor visas, which they're not,

548
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: they would be one hundred percent behind the effort for

549
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: Congress to change the statutes on birthright citizenship or President

550
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 2: Trump's efforts to executive action to change birth right ssitions.

551
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: Well, e then, but they don't support that. You're listening

552
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: to it's a numbers game with Ryan Grodski. We'll be

553
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: right back after this message. I'll close on this and

554
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: I'll ask this questions. The last question, what can the

555
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: president the presidents talk about changing birthright citizenship? Obvious, the

556
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has ruled about birthright citizenship for legal residents

557
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: that they have the legal right to declare to be

558
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: citizenship at they're legally here. The Supreme Court is not

559
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: one time ruled on illegal immigration. That is a complete thing.

560
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: We just we are what does and culders say by

561
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: dictum we are sitting there and giving illegal alien citizenship.

562
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: Can the president, through executive action and birth right citizenship

563
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: for illegal alliance. Yes.

564
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: So I wrote two of the executive orders for the

565
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: President on birth right citizenship last time. And that's a

566
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: separate discussion about the deep state, how the deep state,

567
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: even in the Trump White House, operated and subverted your

568
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: real work product. But one of the executive orders look

569
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: at two things. The Constitution is very clear. The children

570
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: of consular or ambassadorial officials, they are not entitled by

571
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: natural birth in the US to US citizenship. And that

572
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: makes sense. The representatives of a foreign nation, right, they

573
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: have no allegiance to our government. They're only here representing

574
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: their government. Yet it is so almost standard practice today.

575
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: It's almost standard practice that when the Spanish ambassadors White

576
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 2: gives birth in DC hospital, officials will walk in and

577
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: present her with an application for a Social Security Card

578
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: and averse birth certificate. Oh it's Ryan as is dead,

579
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: you cop. Oh, it happens everywhere in the country. And

580
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: so you think about it. Who has the largest legitimate

581
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: form presence in the United States. The government of Mexico

582
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: with one hundred and thirty two consulates.

583
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: All of those consulate officials live and work in our communities,

584
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: and we have a consulate office here in Boise, and

585
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: those officials on behalf of the Mexican government, where they

586
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: will have human relations, they'll give birth to children, and

587
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: when they go to the hospital here, they will be

588
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: presented social security application, a birth certificate application. So the

589
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: easiest thing that the executive work could do is one.

590
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: Say we're not doing that anymore and instruct all secretaries

591
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: of state or those who handle vital statistics in state

592
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: governments that say, you are no longer to be issuing.

593
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: If you were, that's bad news.

594
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: You're not supposed to be, but you are no longer

595
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: able to issue birth certificate applications to foreign ambassadorial consulate officials.

596
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: That's an easy test case. Your listeners may say, well,

597
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: what does that do. It's just an easy test case

598
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 2: to get appellate courts to degree. Yep, that is what

599
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: the constitution says. And then the next step is an

600
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: executive order that we worked on. I mean, these were

601
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: combined in one vehicle, but to say now we know

602
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: for certain that it's an arguable question as to whether

603
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: or not legal residents are entitled by birth natural birth

604
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: on US soil to citizenship. That's fine, we can argue

605
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: about that another day, but we know for certain it

606
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: does not extend to illegal immigrants. The executive order was

607
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: two paragraphs long, two paragraphs long, and you have your

608
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: perfect test case. It will be sued for injunction immediately

609
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: by leftist groups and you're on your way too, Supreme Court. Right.

610
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: And you know, it's so crazy because when the whole

611
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: thing was happening in New York, I heard that an

612
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: entire floor of the Roosevelt Hotel was just basically an

613
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: award for women to give birth. Yeah, birth, that was

614
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: exactly what was happening. I mean, there are the the

615
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: what is it called pregnancy, pregnancy hospitality or pregnancy tourism?

616
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: Is birth tourism is huge. You have Russians in Florida,

617
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: you have a plethora of people coming Chinese to makem

618
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: count California, and South Americans coming through Texas, and you

619
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: have people all over the globe coming to New York

620
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: to give birth for that thing. So if if the

621
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: executive order were to one be signed by President Trump

622
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: and he is set there and said this is you know,

623
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it this time, and he doesn't

624
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: have to run for reelection, so it's all on him.

625
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court is conservative majority six y three, So

626
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: there's really nothing stopping him. Now that would be that

627
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: will be the case, and that would fundamentally change a

628
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: lot of the illegal immigration if that kind of executive

629
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: order that you worked on was signed.

630
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: And h I mean, that's exactly right, right, And it's for

631
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: the point that you mentioned just a moment ago, which

632
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: is again a lot of this policy discussion is meant

633
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: to be hidden from the average American that it's so complex,

634
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: it's all these special words at one H one B

635
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: what was any of this mean? But one of the

636
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: underlying just human facsis of this discussion is that an

637
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: illegal immigrant comes and their child is entitled to free

638
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: public education, freehouses, free healthcare, and rain. Now this is

639
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: gateway that free meals. That's the magnet, to say nothing

640
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: of the entire cottage industry the Left has constructed to

641
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: provide through NGOs and grant through those NGOs these same

642
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: features in these same services free housing, pre healthcare, free meals,

643
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: et cetera. So there's an entire industry dedicated to servicing

644
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: the needs of illegal immigrant children. If you were to

645
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: change that dynamic, a lot of the magnet for I

646
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: legal immigration would disappear overnight.

647
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Theowold. You are brilliant and I appreciate your time immensely.

648
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: Where can people follow if they want to read more

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Speaker 1: of your stuff?

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Speaker 2: At Real Field World, at the American Conservative, and at

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Speaker 2: the Claremont Institute, often writing at.

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00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: Both those publications. Thank you so much for being here, Really,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. If you are interested in any of

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Speaker 1: this information, you want to read it seasoned visual Graphics,

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Speaker 1: go to my substack where I write all this stuff

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