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Speaker 1: one eight hundred Gambler dot net in West Virginia. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Favorites, the podcast from the Volume Podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: I am Chab Millman. I will be joined in a

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Speaker 1: moment by my bff, my companion, my compadre professional better

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Speaker 1: Simon Hunter. This is a very special bonus episode. We've

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Speaker 1: done a couple of these throughout the NFL season when

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Speaker 1: news and current events compel us to do that. Simon.

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Speaker 1: As we've discussed, this is the most popular sports betting

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Speaker 1: podcast in the country. The numbers prove it, which me

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of people listening who might not

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Speaker 1: have access to legalized sports betting. Today. We're going to

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Speaker 1: get him spark, isn't that right? Yeah, We're gonna find

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Speaker 1: out who's got legalization who doesn't. It's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things are changing. Some states are getting legalized and they're

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Speaker 1: becoming non legalized. It's uh, it's a crazy time right

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Speaker 1: now in American chap It is a crazy time. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And no one is better at unpacking it at all

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Speaker 1: than Daniel Walack, who I've known for several years, has

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Speaker 1: has sort of established himself as the pre eminent leader

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Speaker 1: when it comes to understanding the legalities around sports betting,

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Speaker 1: and back in the day when I was at ESPN

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Speaker 1: and Dan was sort of establishing himself, he understood better

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Speaker 1: than anyone the nuanced elements of legalization. Now that it's

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Speaker 1: state by state, especially with some very big states making

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Speaker 1: news in Florida and in New York over the past

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Speaker 1: several months, it's a good time to have minor discuss Dan.

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Speaker 1: Good to see a man um eight to see you

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Speaker 1: again chat. It's been it's been a couple of years

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Speaker 1: and this will be the first podcast I've ever done

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Speaker 1: from the busiest shopping mall in the country from my

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Speaker 1: gym with Avatar Mall as the backdrop. It for you.

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Speaker 1: I put a stop to the Christmas season and try

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Speaker 1: to try and update your audience on what's going on

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Speaker 1: around the country, especially in Florida where shopping is more

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Speaker 1: of a sure thing than betting. Yeah right. So, by

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Speaker 1: the way, if you want to follow Dan at wall

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Speaker 1: like Legal w A L l A C H Legal

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, it's also a contributor to the Athletic Before

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Speaker 1: we get to Florida, I want to start with New

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Speaker 1: York State, because New York State is legalized sports betting

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Speaker 1: and it will launch sometime early in two is the

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Speaker 1: word Explain to people what's happening there. Yeah, New York

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Speaker 1: past a very I guess unusual sports betting law that

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Speaker 1: created a competitive bidding process. So even though the law

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Speaker 1: was enacted in May, the New York State Gaming commiss

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Speaker 1: and had to solicit bids and choose the winning bidders,

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Speaker 1: and that process took roughly a half a year. So

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Speaker 1: the nine online sports betting operators have been chosen. All

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Speaker 1: the major companies are going to be participating, you know,

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Speaker 1: with an exception of I think bar stool and bet three,

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Speaker 1: six five. Most of the name brands will launch. And

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Speaker 1: the expectation is that now that the rules and regulations

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Speaker 1: from the Gaming Commission have been promulgated, licenses issue, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be all systems go uh in time for

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl in all likelihood by the early the

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Speaker 1: middle part of January, at least. That's the word I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing from some key plugged in lawmakers and regulatory officials.

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Speaker 1: So there shouldn't be any controversy about that. It took

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Speaker 1: a while, but it was due to the competitive bidding

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Speaker 1: process that very few states other than New Hampshire and

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Speaker 1: and maybe Rhode Island have gone down that tab. Usually

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Speaker 1: that you passed the law issue licenses and then that's

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Speaker 1: it is New York still looking at that per cent tax?

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Speaker 1: Is that a real thing that did that get past?

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Speaker 1: New York did not mandate, did not mandate a specific

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Speaker 1: tax rate. But when you when you use a competitive

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Speaker 1: bidding arrangement, it basically is truth serum for the gaming industry,

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Speaker 1: and it forces operators to put their best foot forward

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Speaker 1: because if they don't bid, they're gonna lose out on

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Speaker 1: the market to their competitors. In New Hampshire and Rhode

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Speaker 1: Island and Delaware have basically already set the benchmark for

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote lottery operated competitive bidding model for sports betting,

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Speaker 1: and those those states have fifty or fifty one percent.

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Speaker 1: As a I wouldn't call it attacks. It's more of

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Speaker 1: a revenue share, almost a cane to a private public partnership,

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Speaker 1: where the state be sharing in the revenues even though

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Speaker 1: they're not doing anything, and the sports book and the

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Speaker 1: operators are taking all of the risk. The online sports

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Speaker 1: betting is like Amazon. It's you know, it's maybe lower

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Speaker 1: profit margin, but the volume you know, you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, potential for a two billion dollar a month

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Speaker 1: handle in New York State in year one. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: revenue share is going to be problematic, but every online

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Speaker 1: sports book operator will will make out pretty well under

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Speaker 1: this scenario. And I think down the road, if the

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Speaker 1: system doesn't work out profitably for the books, there's no

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Speaker 1: prohibition against going back a year from now in the

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Speaker 1: New York State Gaming Commission to just revise their their

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Speaker 1: contracts with the vendors. This is a private public partnership

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Speaker 1: and under the statutory framework, the Gaming Commission has the

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Speaker 1: authority to change any of the terms of the contract.

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Speaker 1: So this is not going to go on in perpetuity.

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Speaker 1: And I can just tell you from my experience in

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Speaker 1: my own state of Florida, they once tax slot machine

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Speaker 1: revenues that either fifty or sixty, which is ridiculous. The

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Speaker 1: operators complained and they went back a couple of years

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Speaker 1: later and tweaked it. And if New York is losing

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Speaker 1: business to New Jersey Connecticut, then you'll see a change

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Speaker 1: maybe a year or two years out. But in the

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Speaker 1: short term, I think location, location, location is going to

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Speaker 1: make New York the top sports betting market in the country.

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Speaker 1: The average consumer is not going to care about the

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Speaker 1: tax rate so long as it does not manifest itself

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Speaker 1: in the higher prices or worse promotions, or or deposit bonuses.

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Speaker 1: On the retail level, the customer doesn't notice the difference.

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Speaker 1: This is really about the stump the lines up to

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Speaker 1: make up for them. That's the downstream impact is that

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Speaker 1: the pricing won't be as good because the sports books

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Speaker 1: are gonna try to sort of pass that tax onto

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Speaker 1: the consumer indirectly. And I think you could be right.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're wrong, but states like New Hampshire

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Speaker 1: and Rhode Islands tax identical revenue share, but they grant

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Speaker 1: a monopoly or exclusivity to one operator. So maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: having that kind of a high high tax rate where

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Speaker 1: one company controls the market makes it worth the while.

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Speaker 1: But those companies, those those companies Draft Kings and I

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Speaker 1: believe I G. T or William Hill, Caesar's, they're doing

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Speaker 1: well in those respective states. And I believe with nine

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Speaker 1: operators competition will force, uh, you know, a competitive marketplace

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Speaker 1: regardless of the tax rate. Dan, you mentioned Florida. You're

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Speaker 1: in Florida. Florida has been in the news the past

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Speaker 1: seven weeks because a variety of things regarding sports betting

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Speaker 1: run people through sort of in a discinct and clear

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Speaker 1: away as you can what was happening in Florida and

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Speaker 1: then where it is now. Yeah, And in Florida, Governor

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Speaker 1: de Santis made the decision to operate sports betting through

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Speaker 1: a tribal monopoly and entered into a Class three gaming

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Speaker 1: compact with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which is the

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Speaker 1: largest tribe in the country, granting them basically control over

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Speaker 1: not only on reservation betting, but statewide mobile betting. That

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Speaker 1: compact was challenged in court because the federal law which

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Speaker 1: governs Indian gaming compacts only permits compacts to address and

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Speaker 1: authorized gambling activity that literally takes place on Indian lands

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Speaker 1: and nowhere else. You can't have a compact that gives

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Speaker 1: tribe authorization to operate outside of tribal land. So that

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Speaker 1: compact was challenged in court. And the reason why the

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Speaker 1: governor and the Seminal Tribe moved forward with this structure

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Speaker 1: is that they leave that just like in New Jersey

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Speaker 1: and in New York for online sports betting that the

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Speaker 1: location of the server is the paramount consideration in deciding

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Speaker 1: and determining where the bet takes place. Legislature of New

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Speaker 1: Jersey got around that requirement by saying, well, if the

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Speaker 1: servers located in Atlantic City, then the bet takes place

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Speaker 1: in Atlantic City. The federal courts have rejected that same principle,

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Speaker 1: and a group challenged the Seminal Gaming Compact and court

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Speaker 1: and argued that the location of the customer is more

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Speaker 1: important than the location of the server, because this federal

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Speaker 1: law is very crystal clear on where the gambling has

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Speaker 1: to take place, and every judicial decision which has interpreted

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Speaker 1: this language in the context of internet wagering has held

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Speaker 1: that the server is irrelevant and it's where the better

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Speaker 1: is located that dictates where the bet is made, and

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Speaker 1: as a result, the compact was invalidated. The case is

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Speaker 1: now on appeal, and the clearest path to online sports

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Speaker 1: betting in Florida lies with a ballot referendum that may

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Speaker 1: or may not take place in November two. So we

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Speaker 1: could be a year or more away from online sports

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Speaker 1: betting unless the Seminole tribe miraculously and I say miraculously

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Speaker 1: in an understated way, prevail on this appeal. Yeah, Florida

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Speaker 1: is not happening anytime soon. It's like Florida, California, Texas.

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Speaker 1: For those of us in the betting space who know

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Speaker 1: that we need to continue to have more states legalized

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Speaker 1: in order to develop more of a tipping point and

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Speaker 1: have mass scale, those are the states that we're looking

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Speaker 1: to three to five years down the road. Alright, So

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Speaker 1: last question, we'll get New York. Who else can we

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Speaker 1: expect to see UH come online or pass legislation? Well,

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Speaker 1: Ohio recently enacted to sports betting law, and that should

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Speaker 1: take around six months to launch online sports betting and

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Speaker 1: concern and states like Ohio, Louisiana, and Maryland, which have

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Speaker 1: all enacted sports betting laws but to g have to

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Speaker 1: launch online is sort of a debate internally about whether

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Speaker 1: all the companies should should launch at the same time

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Speaker 1: or whether it should be first in, first out, depending

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Speaker 1: on whose license more quickly. So the launch in those

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Speaker 1: three states is basically a t b A. But at

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Speaker 1: some point in roughly halfway to three quarters of the

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Speaker 1: way through the year, I would expect those states to

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Speaker 1: allow their citizens to wage your online. It's a matter

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Speaker 1: of licensing and the regulatory stuff being worked out. But

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Speaker 1: new states that I would expect to legalize sports bedding.

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts has been in the queue and in the debate

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Speaker 1: for the past four years, and it's just utterly shocking

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Speaker 1: to me that in what I consider to be the

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Speaker 1: most fervent sports market in the country, that they're pulling

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Speaker 1: up the rear, even though they don't have any of

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Speaker 1: the baggage at states like California, Florida, and Texas have

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Speaker 1: with state constitutions. So Massachusetts I think is pretty close

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Speaker 1: to at least continuing their debate and finally making it legal.

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Speaker 1: But I would also watch Georgia. States that have a

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Speaker 1: very short legislative session, and I would count among those

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Speaker 1: as Kentucky and Georgia, which meet between January and March,

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Speaker 1: and all the business has to be done in the

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Speaker 1: early part of the year, So I would look for Kentucky, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: and maybe Florida on a new compact that would allow

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Speaker 1: in person sports betting at any of the eight tribal

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Speaker 1: property statewide. I mean, something is better than nothing while

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Speaker 1: the legal battle plays on for online. So those are

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Speaker 1: the three states that I think are more more likely

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Speaker 1: to come online at the at the beginning part of

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Speaker 1: the year, and California is going to size up to

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Speaker 1: be probably the most heavily contested state in the history

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Speaker 1: of post past the legalized sports betting, where if they

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Speaker 1: they have four measures that may be on the ballot

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Speaker 1: to tribal initiatives, a card room sponsored initiative that folds

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Speaker 1: in the professional sports venues, as well as the sort

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Speaker 1: of the online sports betting operator lead initiative which has

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Speaker 1: DraftKings Fan Duel Caesar's Win Penn National. With four initiatives,

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Speaker 1: it will be close to half a billion dollars or

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Speaker 1: more of advertising to sort of win the hearts and

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Speaker 1: minds of California voters. And with four initiatives only one

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Speaker 1: can pass. Not only does yours have to win, but

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Speaker 1: you've got to get more than the others that goes

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Speaker 1: forward as is, or even with two initiatives, this will

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Speaker 1: set the record for campaigns spending on a ballot initiative

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Speaker 1: in California's history. I think five million is the starting

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Speaker 1: point on the spend. Well, Dan, thanks for coming back

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, Thanks for updating us and all that

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Speaker 1: we can look forward to in two, especially with New

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Speaker 1: York State. Hopefully Louisiana gets going, Hopefully Maryland gets going.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully Ohio gets going. Great to see you happy holidays.

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Speaker 1: Follow at Wallick Legal w A L l A C

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Speaker 1: H Legal on Twitter. For my compadre Simon Hunter, I

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Speaker 1: am Chad Nolman. This has been the favorites from the

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Speaker 1: Volume podcast Network. Download US and Apple podcasts and Spotify

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, I love you,