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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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Speaker 1: stuff looks dot com. Hello again, everyone, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff. My name is Chris Pelette and I am

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Speaker 1: an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across

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Speaker 1: from me, as usual, is senior writer Jonathan Strickling. He there, so,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, this is it the grand finale. The

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Speaker 1: curtain sweeps down, the spotlight goes out on our beloved

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Speaker 1: Chris Palette. It is his final Tech Stuff episode. This

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Speaker 1: is not a joke. We may eventually be able to

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Speaker 1: get him back on as a guest, but he's this

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Speaker 1: is his his final episode as a host of tech

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Speaker 1: Stuff and uh and he got to choose whatever topic

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Speaker 1: he wanted. Unfortunately, almost all of them were ones we

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Speaker 1: had already covered. Well. Actually, it surprised me that we

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Speaker 1: didn't have a podcast on the person that we wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about today. Yeah, we've We've mentioned him in

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Speaker 1: several podcasts. Yeah, but yeah, definitely one of text more

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Speaker 1: colorful characters, right, and that, of course is the wonderful

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Speaker 1: wizard named was yes, Steve Stephen Gary Wozniak. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: one of the co founders of Apple. He was born

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Speaker 1: in on August eleventh, and uh. He came from a

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Speaker 1: family that was technologically inclined. Yes, his dad was an

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Speaker 1: engineer at a little company called lockeed Martin. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've heard of that company. Yeah, and uh and

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Speaker 1: yeah he um. As a as a kid, he became

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Speaker 1: very interested in engineering and electronics. Did you did you

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Speaker 1: hear about what his favorite book series was that kind

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Speaker 1: of inspired him? No? Actually think did it was? The

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Speaker 1: I looked at a lot of interviews. He's actually if

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Speaker 1: you've never seen an interview with Wozniak, he's a very

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Speaker 1: animated individual, well spoken, very passionate about what he does.

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Speaker 1: It's clearly he truly enjoys technology, like there's no irony there.

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Speaker 1: He just loves it. And though he doesn't necessarily love

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Speaker 1: all the things that we do with technology or the

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Speaker 1: way that companies handle technology, he's not He actually is

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Speaker 1: not so not such a big fan of big companies.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get into that. But no, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: his favorite book series was the Tom Swift series. So

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Speaker 1: Tom Swift, if you don't know, he's a young man

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Speaker 1: who is a kind of an engineer who could build

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Speaker 1: just about anything at his own company. He would fight

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Speaker 1: evil and and solve mysteries and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, just as a tangent, Tom Swift plays

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Speaker 1: a role in a in a totally different technology has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with Wozniak. Can do you do you

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Speaker 1: happen to know what Tom Swift? It's actually his Tom

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Speaker 1: Swift's name is lent in a way to this technology. Really, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Taser. Oh right, Taser stands Taser's technically an acronym.

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Speaker 1: It stands for Thomas A. Swift's electric rifle. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think we mentioned that a long time ago when

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Speaker 1: we talked about the Taser. Yeah, I think so, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: he In an interview, he credited the Tom Swift books

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Speaker 1: as igniting his imagination at the idea of creating things

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Speaker 1: like electronics and being able to have kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of these adventures, and having a dad who

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Speaker 1: was an engineer at lockeed Martin didn't hurt because it

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Speaker 1: turned out he had a really good person to go

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Speaker 1: to when those science fairs came up in elementary school.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, and uh, it certainly wouldn't have hurt

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Speaker 1: his interest in technology to have a family that understood

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Speaker 1: and supported those interests too. They go, oh, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is something I like too, so you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we should uh stop clowning around, he said foolishly. I

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Speaker 1: was a a Tom Swift e. Nice, he's a he's

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Speaker 1: a Yeah, he had a He credited his dad and

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Speaker 1: some of his teachers in elementary school as really inspiring him. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: he said that, uh, you know when he started to

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Speaker 1: excel at science. Uh, the teachers responded, and that just

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Speaker 1: drove him to make even more accomplishments in that area.

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Speaker 1: So by the time he was in sixth grade, he

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Speaker 1: actually built a fairly primitive but a working computer that

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Speaker 1: could play Tic Tac Toe. And you know, we all

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Speaker 1: know from the documentary War Games that it's just a

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Speaker 1: short hop, skip and a jump from tic tac toe

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Speaker 1: to thermonuclear war. Of course, you know, shall we play

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Speaker 1: a game? Thanks Whopper? Hey, nice you remembered the name

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Speaker 1: and everything. Yeah, I've I've watched that documentary several times.

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Speaker 1: So the old cup modems where he actually had to

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Speaker 1: put the phone and I'm sure actually was probably remembers

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Speaker 1: those days. Oh yeah, we'll get into the a little

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Speaker 1: bit too. Well. It was has also got a bit

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Speaker 1: of a mischievous streak in him. Um, a bit, a

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Speaker 1: bit of a mischievous street. That was a bit of

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Speaker 1: an understatement. Yeah, well do it well. At sixth grade,

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Speaker 1: he also got his ham radio license. So obviously he

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Speaker 1: was very much interested in electronics and technology and communication.

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Speaker 1: All of these things would play a very large role

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Speaker 1: in his choices further down the line. And according to

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Speaker 1: Waz he said he never took any courses on building

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Speaker 1: electronics or computers. He just learned how to do that

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Speaker 1: all on his own, at least at least in the

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Speaker 1: elementary in high school years. Once you get to college.

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Speaker 1: He actually was pursuing originally, uh, when he when he

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Speaker 1: first enrolled, he was pursuing a degree in electrical engineering

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Speaker 1: and computer science at the University of California at Berkeley. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's sort of a lesson for all of us.

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Speaker 1: You know, Um, sometimes programming and fiddling with electronics and

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things can seem really daunting, and it

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Speaker 1: feels like, you know, used are dabbling in and it

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Speaker 1: feels like you need a degree in computer science or

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Speaker 1: electrical engineering to do these things. You don't. You just

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Speaker 1: have to have an interest and get the right right

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Speaker 1: place to start. And it also helps to uh surround

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Speaker 1: yourself with an other fellow enthusiasts. Yeah, and it didn't

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Speaker 1: hurt that that was is categorically a genius in certain arenas,

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Speaker 1: so that gave him a leg up as well. But

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Speaker 1: tales details. Yeah, well, while in while in the both

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Speaker 1: in high school and in college, he began to associate

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Speaker 1: with other people who are really interested in electronics and technology.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh he was part of a homebrew computer club. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that would be v Homebrew computer club. Yeah. Back back

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Speaker 1: in the mid seventies. Um was was at the University

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Speaker 1: of California at Berkeley. UM and uh he was he

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Speaker 1: was interested in attending this, uh, this nearby computer club,

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Speaker 1: the Homebrew Computer Club. And uh there were actually quite

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Speaker 1: a you people of note who are part of this um.

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Speaker 1: But they were interested in before you get into the

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Speaker 1: details of that kind of thing, this group was really

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Speaker 1: kind of interested in what you could do with computers because, uh,

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Speaker 1: in the mid nineties seventies, we weren't talking about uh

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Speaker 1: machines like the Apple too, where you had a monitor

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Speaker 1: sitting on top of a computer with a keyboard and

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Speaker 1: you would program stuff. I mean, we were uh, they

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Speaker 1: were interested in in large part and things like the Altaire,

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Speaker 1: which had no monitor. You you would read, um, the

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Speaker 1: the output of this device by the blinking lights or

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Speaker 1: you know in German dustprincn light as many a many

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Speaker 1: many jokes have gone. But really, I mean, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: It wasn't something that the average person would probably be

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Speaker 1: likely in picking up, simply because there was kind of

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Speaker 1: a barrier of entry. It was hard to understand for

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Speaker 1: people who were sort of passing lee interested in it.

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Speaker 1: And we talked about the IBM s and the machines

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Speaker 1: that corporate customers would use where you had punch cards

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Speaker 1: and and you know printing and large storage devices and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Well yeah, I mean those were far

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Speaker 1: more easy in some ways to understand because there were

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Speaker 1: more ways to interact with those machines, but they were

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Speaker 1: also hugely expensive and took up a lot more space

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Speaker 1: than something like the Altaire. This is the kind of

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Speaker 1: device that got people thinking, you know, I could have

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Speaker 1: a computer in my house. I could do things with

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Speaker 1: a computer. I could program this thing. This, this could

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Speaker 1: be fun. What could I do with this? And that's

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Speaker 1: really what this group was all about. And there were

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Speaker 1: other people uh interested in this as well, like a

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Speaker 1: guy named Jobs, and I believe a couple of guys

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Speaker 1: named Alan and Gates to show up in the logs.

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Speaker 1: And there were there were other people who interacted with

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Speaker 1: all of those guys that that floated in and out

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Speaker 1: of that culture out there in California around that time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is this is the birth of the personal computer age.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the the very early days and uh

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Speaker 1: and of course Bosniac plays a very large role in that.

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Speaker 1: But also uh he had other interests in in finding

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Speaker 1: out how stuff works, which you know, we can appreciate, um,

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Speaker 1: like the phone system. He was he was known to

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Speaker 1: engage in a little phone freaking now and then. We

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Speaker 1: actually have talked about phone freaking in the past. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: what phone freaking was was finding out how the telephone

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Speaker 1: system worked and then exploiting that knowledge by being able

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Speaker 1: to to create things that would allow you to make

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Speaker 1: free phone calls. UM. Usually it would involve recreating a

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Speaker 1: certain kind of tone that the phone would then um

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Speaker 1: not recognize the fact that you were dialing. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: register that, so it acts as if the line had

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Speaker 1: not been engaged. Whereas you could actually make the call

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Speaker 1: for free. So, um, there are a lot of different

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Speaker 1: kits that you could do this with. There, of course,

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Speaker 1: was the famous UH whistle, Yes, uh, the the Captain

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Speaker 1: crunch whistle, or you could whistle into a phone and

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Speaker 1: UH with this particular toy whistle that came in the

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Speaker 1: Cereal and UH it would recreate the exact pitch you

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Speaker 1: needed in order to UH to hack the phone system.

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Speaker 1: That changed before too long and they had to start

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Speaker 1: creating electronic devices that could generate. Normally it would be

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Speaker 1: two tones together to be able to uh to actually

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Speaker 1: hack into a phone system. Yeah. Well, um, if if

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Speaker 1: you haven't done any research into into phone freaking, or

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Speaker 1: listen to the podcast from Man that was a long time.

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Speaker 1: It was basically that the deal was that they had

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Speaker 1: the system in place so that the the phone company

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Speaker 1: could do maintenance work and the phone technicians out in

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Speaker 1: the field could use these certain codes. Um. In the

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Speaker 1: case of one of them, it was a high E

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Speaker 1: played three times and that would unlock the system. It

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Speaker 1: was a very analog system them at that point. And

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Speaker 1: UH you know they the phone company actually published information

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Speaker 1: on this in their Bell Technical Journal, which was available

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Speaker 1: at your local library, and certain people figured this out

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Speaker 1: and and he whistle. This is famous because a famous

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Speaker 1: phone freaker named Captain Crunch is named that because he

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Speaker 1: realized that the toy whistle that you found in a

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Speaker 1: box of cereal, I'll let you guess which brand. Um, Yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: how did how did you know? Um? You could? You

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Speaker 1: could play exactly that note. That's all you needed. You

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Speaker 1: all you had. All you had to do was know

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Speaker 1: that the code and have that whistle. Um. And of

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Speaker 1: course Bell went nuts trying to get the technical that

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Speaker 1: copy of the Technical Journal back off the shelves. That

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Speaker 1: this was a mistake to let that information get outside

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Speaker 1: the door of Bell. Yeah, that was not a great move.

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Speaker 1: We published this, you're not supposed to want to read

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Speaker 1: about it. But but people who were interested in electronics,

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Speaker 1: we clearly something as complex as the telephone uh system

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Speaker 1: would be fascinating to them, and that included people like Wasnia. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and uh it's it's famous that he and Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: were actually building phone freaking systems for other people, um,

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Speaker 1: and and trying to sell them, which they did right

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Speaker 1: on a small scale, and that which kind of set

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Speaker 1: the ground for for their future endeavors together. They He

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Speaker 1: actually did withdraw from the University of California before completing

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Speaker 1: his degree and began to work for HEWITTT. Packard and

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Speaker 1: was an an engineer there. He actually worked specifically on

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Speaker 1: designing calculators. Meanwhile, Jobs kind of came up with this idea. Now,

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Speaker 1: but when you talk about jobs in Wosniac, they had

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Speaker 1: very different roles when in those early days of Apple, right,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs was an idea guy, he was a business guy,

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Speaker 1: and he was a marketing guy most more than anything else.

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Speaker 1: He was a marketing genius. Yeah, I've been reading Isaacson's

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Speaker 1: biography of Steve Jobs, and I'm still not quite done

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Speaker 1: with it yet, but I have passed through the early

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Speaker 1: stages of Apple. Will be there and uh, apparently when

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Speaker 1: they were working on the Apple one, which was a

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Speaker 1: very basic computer um As a matter of fact, it

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Speaker 1: had the very early machines weren't really machines. They were

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Speaker 1: a set of boards basically motherboards and pieces that you

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Speaker 1: would assemble into a case and use it as a

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Speaker 1: computer UM which sold for as Jonathan likes to point out,

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Speaker 1: the sum of six d sixty six dollars and sixty

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Speaker 1: six cents. Wozniak likes repeating digits. Yeah apparently, well, according

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Speaker 1: to them, it had nothing to do with the symbolic

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Speaker 1: nature of this in uh, in religion, it was more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was no but it's hard to imagine that it

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Speaker 1: and it's an Apple computer. Yeah. Of course. They also

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Speaker 1: say that Apple was chosen for other reasons than the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's funny because because Wozniak said that he had just

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Speaker 1: guessed at some point that the reason why Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: wanted to call the company Apple was that Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: had worked for a while at an orchard in either

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Speaker 1: Washington or Oregon, and that that perhaps gave him the idea,

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Speaker 1: which may or may not be the case, because he

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Speaker 1: said the thing about Jobs was that he would come

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Speaker 1: up with ideas but not necessarily explain to you how

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Speaker 1: he came up with him. Yeah, yeah, that's true. We

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Speaker 1: also should point out that there was this time in

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Speaker 1: jobs life where he was expanding his consciousness a little bit. Yes, yes, um.

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Speaker 1: Jobs attended to read college up in Oregon and did

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Speaker 1: not finish there, but was was very interested in a

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Speaker 1: number of things, including UH, expanding one's horizons to the

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Speaker 1: use of chemical substances, which a very very diplomatic way

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Speaker 1: of putting it. That's not and I don't get the

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Speaker 1: sense that that is interested in that. I think he

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Speaker 1: likes to expand his consciousness through technological means, which again

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Speaker 1: shows that difference. Jobs was this marketer and Wasasniak was

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Speaker 1: the engineer. He was the guy who was really designing

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Speaker 1: the technology. And well that was that was actually exactly

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Speaker 1: my point was according to the Isaacs and story, Um

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Speaker 1: was wanted to give away the design for the original

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Speaker 1: boards for the Apple One, and Jobs said no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we could sell this thing. We could make a company.

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Speaker 1: And that intrigue was just enough to go, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's give it a try. Yeah, because before, at at

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Speaker 1: the Homebrew Computer Club, Wasniac would distribute designs that he

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Speaker 1: would come up with for for computer kids. He would

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Speaker 1: design them on paper and then he would just distribute

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Speaker 1: copies of it to the other members. And Jobs was

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Speaker 1: getting to the point where he's like, you know, if

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Speaker 1: we didn't give these away for free, I bet people

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Speaker 1: would pay for them. And so yeah, he he convinced

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Speaker 1: Wozniak to go in with him on a venture together.

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Speaker 1: And this was the idea of Apple. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't easy. Um, you know, Wozniak was a

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Speaker 1: little reticent to leave HP. I mean, you think about

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Speaker 1: it if you were if your buddy is telling you, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's go start a company. Meanwhile, you're in with a

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Speaker 1: very strong technology company and you're you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: a good job, it's secure, and it's like, well, they're

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Speaker 1: on on the one hand, you got the allure of

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Speaker 1: of you know, this opportunity to do something really cool,

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Speaker 1: but hey, you know, there's not a lot of security,

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Speaker 1: and it's starting your own company can be a challenge,

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Speaker 1: and it can be a lot of work, and it

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Speaker 1: can be scary. Yeah, and it first guaranteed right at first,

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Speaker 1: he did continue to work with HP, didn't quit immediately.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, one of the stories about founding Apple

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Speaker 1: is that they had to in order to raise the

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Speaker 1: capital they needed, which was not that much by today's standards.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even if you were to convert into today's dollars,

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Speaker 1: they it was a fairly low investment. In fact, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things that Steve Jobs was able

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Speaker 1: to to use to convince Wosnia to try. It was

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Speaker 1: because the investment was not going to be prohibitively large,

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Speaker 1: but it's still required that they raised some capital, and

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Speaker 1: they did it by selling off stuff that they owned.

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Speaker 1: And Wasniac sold off his beloved scientific calculator, Yes, which

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Speaker 1: at the time was pretty hot piece of technology. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for around something something to the tune of around five

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars at the time, which you know in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: That's that's it's still a good chunk of change, right,

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Speaker 1: It's it was even more so back then. And uh

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me was that when I read

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Speaker 1: an interview, a more recent interview, Wasniac really downplayed that.

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Speaker 1: He said he said, uh, well, here's the thing. I'm

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Speaker 1: still technically working for HP. And because I worked for HP,

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Speaker 1: I could buy the next new calculator before it came

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Speaker 1: out and at a lower price than I did the

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Speaker 1: older calculator. So, uh so I thought, even at this

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Speaker 1: company that I'm working on with jobs goes belly up,

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Speaker 1: I still, um, I still have the protection of working

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Speaker 1: for this other company, and I can get my calculator back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. Um, which is an important part of context

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Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people miss. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the the Apple one did reasonably well within those circles,

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Speaker 1: and they started working on the Apple too. Um jobs play,

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Speaker 1: I mean, jobs played a good part in the getting

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Speaker 1: it into stores, but Wazn'tiak had a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with the back end of that machine, especially the the

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Speaker 1: Basic language implement implementation. There you go, he was unfamiliar

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Speaker 1: with Basic at first, and uh, just kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: It's funny it's as good with hard but not with Basic.

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Speaker 1: It's also funny that he got really uh he started

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Speaker 1: to really stay the Basic version that HP uses, which

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Speaker 1: is not the same as the Basic language that that

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates was working on. So um, it was he

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Speaker 1: was coming at it from a different approach because he

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Speaker 1: was you know, I think at the time he was

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Speaker 1: actually working under the assumption that was essentially the same thing.

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Speaker 1: But it turned out it was two different versions of

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Speaker 1: Basic to two pretty significant different versions. Also, I should

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Speaker 1: point out, so so they founded Apple in nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't it was just nine seventy seven when

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Speaker 1: Apple two came out, So that that first Apple, we

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00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: should really point out, it was more like a almost

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Speaker 1: like a run of prototypes. It would they only made

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Speaker 1: a small relatively small number of these because, for one thing,

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Speaker 1: they didn't know how big the demand was going to be.

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Speaker 1: They knew that their fellow computer enthusiasts would enjoy this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing because they also shared the vision that

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Speaker 1: computers would one day be an integral part of our lives.

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Speaker 1: But at the time, the average person, like the average consumer,

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Speaker 1: didn't necessarily have any desire or knee for a computer,

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Speaker 1: at least they didn't think they did. And uh, and

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Speaker 1: so it was. It was definitely not a sure thing

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Speaker 1: when they were first getting started. But ninety seven Apple

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Speaker 1: two comes out, and uh, I think, uh I think

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Speaker 1: you could describe its success as being meteoric. Oh yeah, yeah, well, um,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that Wozniak says that he

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Speaker 1: worked so hard on the basic um structure for the

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Speaker 1: two microprocessor was was simply that he realized that basic

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Speaker 1: was going to be a big help to people who

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Speaker 1: were going to adopt these, and he wanted people to

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Speaker 1: understand that computers could play a significant role in their

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Speaker 1: personal lives. And so he said, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: you know, I basically hunkered down to do this because

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Speaker 1: I knew this was going to be important and that's

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Speaker 1: That's something that you see when you look at that

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Speaker 1: Steve Wozniak's career is that he obviously he's willing to

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Speaker 1: put his his back into it and really work on

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Speaker 1: something that he is very passionate about like this, um

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Speaker 1: the very other you know, there were other things too.

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Speaker 1: He talks about having to write the disc operating software

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Speaker 1: for the the earlier machines, and he didn't This was

364
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Speaker 1: not something that he was familiar with. Yeah, he had

365
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: never really used magnetic storage like that, but he made

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Speaker 1: it work because he knew it was important. Um. Not

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Speaker 1: that not donet to discount other people all over the

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Speaker 1: world who do this every day. But I'm saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: as we're looking at Steve Wozniak, this is uh technology

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Speaker 1: is is clearly part of his DNA, and it's it

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Speaker 1: he he needs to to make it work. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that I read about him too in the

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Speaker 1: Isaacs and UM biography of Jobs was that uh um,

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Speaker 1: apparently he was just really good at finding innovative solutions

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Speaker 1: to the challenges that that came up while they were

376
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Speaker 1: creating the actual machines. He his engineering expertise. It's more

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00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: than just it's sort of like a virtuoso and a

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Speaker 1: musical instrument. You have people who can play the instrument,

379
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Speaker 1: but there are very few people that can that can

380
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Speaker 1: pick it up and do something really brilliant with it

381
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Speaker 1: that you wouldn't expect to do because they don't teach this.

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Speaker 1: It's just the thing that you sort of inately have. Yeah,

383
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: and apparently he is. He just got that um ability

384
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Speaker 1: to to look at a technology and know how it

385
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Speaker 1: works and go, well, you know what, I know this

386
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Speaker 1: isn't work in this way just for kicks. Let's plug

387
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: this in this way and see if that works. Yeah.

388
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Speaker 1: He he had a real interesting attitude too. He said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, in general, like in a broad stroke, he said,

390
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Speaker 1: if he could build a machine that had two hundred

391
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Speaker 1: chips in it, he would then look at that design

392
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Speaker 1: and say, how can I build a machine that does

393
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Speaker 1: the exact same thing this thing does, but with a

394
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,959
Speaker 1: hundred fifty chips? And he would do it. And then

395
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: after that he'd say, okay, well, how can I build

396
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Speaker 1: a machine that does all the things this machine does,

397
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Speaker 1: but only with a hundred chips and just continue to

398
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: Lee refined that design so that it was more and

399
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: more elegant and more efficient in each iteration. That was

400
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: sort of his thought process, which is, you know, that's

401
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: a good thing. Well, it's funny you should mention that

402
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: because there there is another story that Jobs in Bosniak

403
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: were working together at Atari to develop a game machine.

404
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 1: Now I don't think Wosniak was that, if my memory serves,

405
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: it's been a few days since I've read that. Uh,

406
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: if memory serves, Wosniak wasn't actually working for Atari. Um.

407
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: Jobs actually kind of convinced him to work on this project.

408
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: But they they were supposed to. They were trying to

409
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: create this machine, and the challenge was it's like, hey,

410
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, if you can do this with uh fewer

411
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: chips in this time period, we'll go ahead and go

412
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: with this idea. So Jobs knew that Wosniak had the

413
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: the expertise to make it work, and he did that.

414
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Speaker 1: The point of doing this was to save money because

415
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: these chips were not cheap UM, So the fewer components

416
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: that you could use on the circuit board, the more

417
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: money you could save in doing that and make the

418
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: project more cost efficient in the end. And uh, thanks

419
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: to was they actually made it work. Of course, Uh,

420
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: they're known for Breakout. The two of them both worked

421
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: on Breakout UM, which is a classic Atari game. Um

422
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, I mean that that paid off both

423
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: on that project and their work they did for Apple,

424
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: because they would continually revise the design to make it,

425
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: to make it more cost efficient and make it more effective.

426
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: Because what was is one of those people that believes

427
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: that UM technology should be accessible to people. Um. I

428
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: was gonna say, well, you might say, well, hey, Apple

429
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: is known for having high priced computers. What are you

430
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: talking to? High price computers and closed systems. Yes, two

431
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: things that you would imagine would be antithetical to that philosophy. Well,

432
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: that's true, And uh but I would argue that, um,

433
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: we need to take a look at the exit of

434
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: Wozniak from Apple because, um, a lot of that did

435
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: not surround the Apple to the Apple two was a

436
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: very affordable machine, which is why it ended up in

437
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people's homes, in a lot of schools. Yeah.

438
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: So in order to get there, we need to we

439
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: need to to get back to like about well nineteen

440
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: eighties when Apple went public, and that was of course

441
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: a big event. In nineteen eighty one was a huge

442
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: year for Wozniak in both triumph and tragedy. Uh In

443
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: one he returned to UC Berkeley to finish out his

444
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: degree in electrical engineering and computer science under an assumed name.

445
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: I would also guess that he probably cruised through a

446
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: lot of that. Probably, Yeah, the fact that the fact

447
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: that there may have been courses that were referring to

448
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: his own work might have might have done that. But

449
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: also that year he um he was the X, a

450
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: man who has a lot of different interests in one

451
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: of those was piloting air planes. Yes, and he owned

452
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: his own private airplane at this point because Apple very

453
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: quickly was a huge success, you know, launched in nineteen

454
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: seventy six, and by one he had enough to have

455
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: his own private plane. And he was piloting his private

456
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: plane and crashed while trying to take off at the

457
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz sky Park. And it was a pretty serious

458
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: crash and he was very badly hurt in that. In

459
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: that accident, I suffered from amnesia for quite some time. Yeah. Yeah,

460
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: he had a lot of different injuries, memory loss. It

461
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: took about two years of rehabilitation for him to get

462
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: back to how he was before the accident. But around

463
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: that time, the Apple two was really starting to become

464
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: a true success story, like a huge success story in

465
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: personal computing and UH and by three, so this is

466
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: just a couple of years after Apple has gone public.

467
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: Three years after Apple's gone public, it was valued the

468
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: company was valued at nine hundred and eighty five million

469
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: billion dollars if you looked at its stock, if you

470
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: were to value the company by how much stock was

471
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: out there in the price that stock was trading at,

472
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: so just under a billion dollars. And again the company

473
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: is not even ten years old yet, so you know,

474
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: Wasniak's work was really starting to pay off for the

475
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: company and for Wosniac at the time. He also UH

476
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: in addition to this, while he was going through his

477
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: recovery period, got involved in another one of his passions,

478
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: which is music. Hosted the now infamous US festivals in California,

479
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: UM which were both were which were known for being huge,

480
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: I mean very very large events. Think of UM things

481
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: like um um, you know Lollapalooza now or Lilith Fair.

482
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: I mean kind of events like that where you're trying.

483
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: I know I am, but I don't go to large

484
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: outdoor events like that. Or the festives. Well, yeah, but

485
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: they did have a verse line of different kinds of Yes,

486
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: actually they were. They were sort of in competition into

487
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: some degree because Coachella had been had been out for

488
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: many years, more than a decade out in California. Um,

489
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: but they it was sort of a blend of technology

490
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: and music, which makes me think more of south By

491
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: Southwest now than than that. But at that time that's

492
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: not the kind of events that we're going on. There

493
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: were more i think inspired from the many years earlier

494
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: Woodstock and events like that, where it was just the

495
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: large outdoor music festivals. But they were also known for extravagance. Um.

496
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: You know, there were some artists like uh van Halen

497
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: and David Bowie who were taking home more than a

498
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: million dollars in early eighty two and eighty three, the

499
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: early eighties, I mean, um and, which were tremendous sums

500
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: of money at that point. Um and and it's I

501
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: think regarded by a lot of people now the US

502
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: festivals sort of that's sort of a punchline to a joke,

503
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: although I'm not sure what the setup would be, UM,

504
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: But I don't know that it was completely unsuccessful. I

505
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: just think that it was sort of a tribute to

506
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: was his generosity and the fact that he paid people

507
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: really uh, you know, generous sums of money. But I

508
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: think he was just having a good time with a

509
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: lot of people. Yeah, he also took this time to

510
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: start getting into philanthropy. Yes, he began to really invest,

511
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: specifically in the education system near his own home. He

512
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: began to uh to help UH schools get computers and

513
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: training on how to use the computers. He was very

514
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: enthusiastic at fostering education, which is no surprise considering, you know,

515
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: his father had helped him and he does credit his

516
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, several teachers went in his elementary school days

517
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: as really being the inspiration for him to pursue his interests.

518
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: So it's not a big surprise that he wanted to

519
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: to kind of pay it forward and and do that

520
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: on himself. So he began to do that and UH.

521
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: In fact, his his contributions to technology and philanthropy led

522
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: up to him receiving the award the the National Medal

523
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: of Technology in nineteen five. He was awarded that by

524
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: the United States President, who at the time was Ronald

525
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: Reagan and received that and it's the highest honor bestowed

526
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: on America's inventors and innovators. Yes, the award has come

527
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: up several times over the course of tech stuff. UM

528
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: you know probably was as one of the people we

529
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: would actually have heard of. UM. They were and Jobs

530
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: were sort of rock stars in the early eighties because

531
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: of the the the prominence of the Apple two UM

532
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: and you know, there were there were cover stories on magazines,

533
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: business magazines, UH and UH and news magazines about these guys.

534
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: They were, They were sort of well known. Of course,

535
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: Jobs is a little bit more outspoken. He's known as

536
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: the um you know, more of the the marketing face

537
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: of the company, especially UM recently, but even back then

538
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: in the in the early days of the company. UM

539
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: as technology went on at Apple, though, as things started

540
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: to change and they started focusing on, uh, diversifying the lines,

541
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: UM was, you know, was sort of not as integral

542
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: to the the creation of machines like the Apple three,

543
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: the Lisa, and the Macintosh like he had been with

544
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: the Apple too. And I think that was partially due

545
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: of course, to the to the accident and the need

546
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: for his recovery. He just he just wasn't as um

547
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: as UM available during that time as he would have

548
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: done otherwise. Yeah, and then um in by night five,

549
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: big changes were happening at Apple. Uh. The biggest was

550
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: that Steve Jobs left the company and that depending on

551
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: how you define it, he was either fire because he

552
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: was having some really nasty conflicts with the with Apple's

553
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: board of directors, or he was just marginalized to the

554
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: point where he just stopped showing up to work. Um.

555
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: But really, I mean essentially they kept giving him a

556
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: d a smaller role over time and distancing him Steve Jobs,

557
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: that is, away from the main operations of Apple. And

558
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: so Steve Jobs left in night Fiveniac stuck around with

559
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: Apple for a couple more years. He would not leave

560
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: the company until seven. Yes, and to some degree he

561
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: still holds a consulting role with the company today. Um.

562
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: His and he he left the company, but Apple still

563
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: I guess it's safe to say they never completely severed

564
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: their relationship, although he doesn't go into work there like

565
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: he used to. Um. And he's and you wouldn't necessarily

566
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: call him an Apple evangelist either. I mean, he says

567
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: in frequent interviews he will say or frequently in interviews,

568
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: I should say, he will say he loves Apple, but

569
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: at the same time he is not shy to criticize

570
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: Apple for things that he views as as hum as

571
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: a as as failures or as mistakes. He is very

572
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: he is known for being very honest and very upfront

573
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: and just uh, you know, giving his opinion. He's a

574
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: straight shooter when it comes to that, and not in

575
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: necessarily a mean way, but very matter of fact. Um yeah,

576
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: actually uh. When he started to work on some other

577
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: projects that one of the first was cl nine, which

578
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: was a company that was known for creating the first

579
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: programmable universal remote YEP. And so this again shows that

580
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: wozniak interest in electronics was still very, very high. He

581
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: just I think wosnia is one of those guys who

582
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: really likes to find a new challenge and know once

583
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: he's done that, once he's managed to to accomplish whatever

584
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: that challenges, then he's ready to move on to the

585
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 1: next one. In fact, again from listening to him talk,

586
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: I would say that that's just one of those things

587
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: he really values, is the idea of innovation, research and development,

588
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: building new stuff and not just making constant improvements over

589
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: older technology. In fact, that might have been one of

590
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: the reasons why he left Apple was that he was

591
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: starting to see Apple turned into this company that was

592
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: more interested in releasing incremental updates to its technology rather

593
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: than truly innovating and building something that's really cool. And

594
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: in fact, that's that's a criticism that he has leveled

595
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: recently at Apple over the last few years, saying that

596
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: Apple seems to be content to release new versions of

597
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: truly innovative and amazing products. You know, he loves things

598
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: like the iPad and the iPhone and all that. He

599
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: things those were great, But why he doesn't think is

600
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: great is that Apple seems to be content to just

601
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: give updates to those products rather than try and create

602
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: something wholly new. Now, that may not be completely fair.

603
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: There may be some things developing an Apple about which

604
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: we know nothing that could blow our minds any day now,

605
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: like the Apple TV that we keep on hoping will

606
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: come out. But you know that that the perception that

607
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: Wozniak has is that, uh, Apple's not currently really in

608
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: that innovative space. In fact, recently he said that Microsoft

609
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: was showing more of that sort of innovative approach. Doesn't

610
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: necessarily mean it's going to be a success for Microsoft.

611
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: But he was saying that you know, Windows eight, Windows

612
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: Phone ate the surface tablet, all of that was kind

613
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: of pointing. It was such a radical departure from the

614
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: stuff that Microsoft had been doing that it was a

615
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: much more innovative approach than what Apple was currently doing. Right. Well, um,

616
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: you know he uh he ended up butting heads with

617
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: cl nine with Apple. Um. He was trying to contract

618
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: the design firm Frog Design, uh to get the product

619
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: designed for him. And Apple had brought Frog Design to

620
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: California with the idea that they were going to be

621
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: their designers, their product designers, and Apple said, no, you

622
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: cannot do that. That was part of their their U

623
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: their UM contract with them. Um. But yeah, he very

624
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: much uh you know, had an idea because he knew

625
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: that these guys were innovators in the way things looked

626
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: and felt. Um. So it doesn't surprise me much that

627
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: that was likes um the kinds of products that Apple

628
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: comes out with. But uh, you know, they had a

629
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: similar design sense. But Apple did not appreciate that at

630
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: the time. UM. Oh, and uh, we didn't mention, but

631
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: well it's probably looking at the timeline here, UM, probably

632
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: should mention some of the other things that he got

633
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: into of the years. Of course, he's been a speaker

634
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: UM for many many years now, including dating back to that.

635
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: That time he was sort of a coveted personality for

636
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: UM keynotes and different kinds of addresses. Uh and uh.

637
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: He started several companies. C All nine was just one

638
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: of them. Wheels of Zeus was one of my favorites. Yes,

639
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: the acronym Wheels of Zeus is laws in in two

640
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: thousand one. And that was back uh in the early

641
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: days of trying to come up with uses for GPS. Yeah.

642
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: The idea being that if you can have a wireless

643
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: GPS UH network, then you would be able to locate stuff. Really,

644
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: that was one of his ideas. He said he wanted

645
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: to help people be able to locate things. Yes, all right,

646
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 1: that was you know so yeah, and was or as

647
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: in Wheels of Zeus not Wasniak. But Wheels of Zeus

648
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: lasted for about five years that it closed up in

649
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:06,959
Speaker 1: two tho six. Also, U and uh he in going

650
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: back a bit. No, No, it's fine. I just want

651
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: to mention, you know, being a co founder of the

652
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: Electronic Frontier Foundation. I mean this is huge. The Electronic

653
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: Frontier Foundation or e f F is an organization that

654
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: advocates for openness and freedom on the internet in the

655
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: computer world. They are also known for doing things like

656
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: helping provide legal assistance to hackers that are being pursued

657
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: by by government officials or or you know, by law enforcement.

658
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: They're known for helping out folks who might otherwise be

659
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: seen as troublemakers. Um. But it's really all about promoting

660
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: the freedom of information and the trying to keep as

661
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: as much of the the manipulation or or or um.

662
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: The just just trying to keep the government out of

663
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: controlling technology in all its forms. Mainly it tends over

664
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: the last several years, it tends to mostly be about

665
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: the Internet, but it's it goes beyond that. Yeah. Yeah,

666
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: and then they are very interested in uh, you know,

667
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: privacy issues issues. Uh, not to uh, not to protect

668
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: what you might call black hat hackers, um, but more

669
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: to give people the opportunity to uh control their technology

670
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: lives a little bit more openly and and do more

671
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: with it rather than having that spoken for for them. Yeah.

672
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: Wazniak has has really come across as someone who who

673
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: wants the individual to have as much control and say

674
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: in that sort of thing, and less of that should

675
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: go to things like corporations and governments. So uh, you

676
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: know this, it's obvious why he would want to co

677
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: found an organization like BFF. And in two thousand he

678
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: was induct it into the Inventor's Hall of Fame and

679
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: also received the Hinz Award for Technology, the Economy and Employment. Yes,

680
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: I wanted to mention the Hines Award, So I'm glad

681
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: you did that. And it's not the Hinz Doofenschmertz Award.

682
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: Curse you Bury the Lady Pass. But yeah, I mean

683
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: this is this is a period, um, the early two

684
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: thousand's where we kind of didn't hear a lot from him.

685
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he's not the kind of person that that

686
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: um you read about in the society pages so much.

687
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: Although until the late two thousands, well you know, making

688
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: appearances on shows like Kathy Griffin in My Life on

689
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: the d List. Yeah he was dating her at the time, yes, yes, Um,

690
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: he's also been on the Big Bang Theory and of

691
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: course Dancing with the Stars cutting a rug on a segue. Yes, yes,

692
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: he uh he showed. I watched some of that, and

693
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: I have to admit he showed a tremendous sense of

694
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: humor about being on that show. Um, and he's as

695
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: a dancer. He is a really incredible programmer. Nice. Um

696
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: an excellent compliment and I am neither. So I really

697
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: can't talk, but I will. I will say that that,

698
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: but I think he would probably agree. Um yeah, he

699
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: uh yeah. He seemed to really kind of have fun

700
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: with his own, you know, public persona, although he's not

701
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, he's not like a celebrity in the sense

702
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: of jumping out and trying to attract attention. That doesn't

703
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 1: seem to really be his his style. He's even been known,

704
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: like on on launch days for Apple products to go

705
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: and wait in line at an Apple store. There was

706
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: one story where uh he, I remember it was it

707
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: was one of the early iPhones, I want to say,

708
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: where he was walking to the Apple store to go

709
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: get in line, and then he got ushered into the

710
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: front of the line, and he actually felt badly about

711
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: it because he was like, you know, he didn't feel

712
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: that he should necessarily be treated any differently than any

713
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: other customer. Um And but a lot of people who

714
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: were in line are like, dude, that's woznia. He can

715
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: totally go in. It's okay, Yeah, I would. I would

716
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: imagine that that he has enough of a following where

717
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, there there would be a certain amount of

718
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: tolerance among the other shoppers that day. Um. He's also known,

719
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: of course, over over time to be a rather uh

720
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: playful prankster of sorts. He's famed, of course for many

721
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: different stunts with two dollar bills. Um, I have actually

722
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: tried to pass two dollar bills which are completely legal,

723
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: and they and have people confused by them because you

724
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: don't see them all the time, which of course lends

725
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: itself to was a sort of sense of humor. Now

726
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: you can buy, as he will point out, complete sheets

727
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: of one dollar, two dollar, and five dollar bills from

728
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. You can get a

729
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: sheet of an uncut sheet of bills. They're completely legal,

730
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: they just haven't been cut apart. In fact, they're perforated.

731
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: So he has been known to buy sheets of these,

732
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, separate them and have them laminated into a pad,

733
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: and go in and buy stuff and peel off a

734
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: series of two dollar bills, which are of course are

735
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: numbered sequentially. It's very weird two dollar bills are weird

736
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: to begin with, and then you add that it looks

737
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: like this guy just peeled off money and handed it

738
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: to me. Am I supposed to take it. Apparently he's

739
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: been to Vegas and tried this stunt and had UH

740
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: security people come and UH talked to him about exactly

741
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: what's going. I've encountered Vegas security. I know exactly what

742
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: you're talking about, And of course if it were me,

743
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: I would be sweating like he he keeps doing. Really,

744
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that the government doesn't, you know,

745
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: make these perforated bills available. Really, I bought these from

746
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: some guy. What what's great is that I wouldn't have

747
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: had the nerve. I should also point out that while

748
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: two dollar bills are unusual here in the United States,

749
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: in other places there are two dollar coins. So for

750
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: our friends in Canadia, Canadian yes, and our friends in Canadia,

751
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: your tunis are very adorable. I like, I actually do

752
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: like tunis. I like Looney's and tun yes. I agree.

753
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: If you would like to send me Loony's and tunis,

754
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: do so at the house. Stuff Works address, Carol Jonathan Strickland. Kids,

755
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: go check your parents. No never mind, um but uh

756
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: but but yeah, what you were talking about about innovation

757
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: and openness and technology. He has recently, as of the

758
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: time we're recording this, in late Ben photographed in front

759
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: of the large uh different versions of Google androids. We

760
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: have Android people, and people go it's the Apple co

761
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: founder in front of the Android androids. Well, yeah, because

762
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: he tries pretty much everything. Yeah, he's just a computer omnivore.

763
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 1: He actually says that he will. You know, he loves

764
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: he loves technology, and he loves gadget doesn't doesn't necessarily

765
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: love what corporations are doing or what governments are doing,

766
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: but he loves the technology. And he specifically, I had

767
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 1: an hour and a half of sleep last night, folks,

768
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: I went and watch The Hobbit anyway, So he specifically

769
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: really likes, uh, platforms that are that allow you to

770
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: do lots of stuff, right, So the Android platform gives

771
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: a lot of flexibility to users. It's something that can

772
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: be overwhelming to someone who's not necessarily an enthusiast, but

773
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: for someone who really likes hacking and getting their their

774
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: hands dirty with technology, the Android platform is very attractive

775
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 1: because it's you can make a lot of changes yourself,

776
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, and and Google facilitates that depending on which

777
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: handset manufacturer and which carrier you're with, it or may

778
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: not be very easy to do. But he also says

779
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: he likes to try everything because he doesn't want to

780
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: form a a prejudice against any particular platform without giving

781
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: it a real fair shot, And so he goes out

782
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: when a new phone comes out, he'll go out and

783
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: buy it. So often, like I've seen pictures of what

784
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,439
Speaker 1: Wozniak was carrying on a given day, and it's usually

785
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: something like five or six smartphones and then maybe a

786
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: tablet and then maybe two computers. It's like, you figure

787
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: it's got to be around fifty pounds of technology at least. Yeah.

788
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: It It kind of reminds me of the nineties version

789
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: of Gilbert where he used to have the gadget utility belt.

790
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: Um you actually knew some people like that? Um yeah, yeah,

791
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: I used to try and do that, but then my

792
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: pants kept falling down. Do you looking like a fool

793
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: with the pants on the ground? I was, in fact? Yeah.

794
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: So currently he's working at a who fusion Io or

795
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: Fusion Eosion what's fusion dash Io as a chief scientist

796
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: and that's the company is a data storage and server company.

797
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: So he's he's currently that's you know, his technical job

798
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: title at the moment. But he does do a lot

799
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: of speaking events and you know you'll still see him

800
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: at things like a TED conferences and other big events

801
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: where you know, they need to have someone there who

802
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: who really knows the ins and outs of technology, who

803
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: is truly uh an advocate for technology for the consumer,

804
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: and who just you know, he's just very passionate and

805
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: loves to share that with other people. That's it's a

806
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: great couple of qualities to have, Like, there are a

807
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: lot of people who are really passionate about what they do,

808
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: but they don't necessarily communicate that or share that with people.

809
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: But Wasniac seems like, you know, you would have to

810
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: tie him down for him not to to to be

811
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: a brilliant over his love of tech. Yeah, it's uh

812
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: from from just about all accounts I've read about about

813
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: Steve Wozniak, He's he's not the kind of person who

814
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: who hides his emotions very well. He's, uh, he's excited

815
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: about a lot of stuff, and when he is, he

816
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, he shares that with you. Um, I should

817
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: say that he doesn't hide his his excitement for technology

818
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: very well, because he's uh, he's really gregarious when it

819
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: comes to that. He may not be necessarily outspoken about

820
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: his personal life as much or or want to jump

821
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: into the spotlight. But if you ran into him and

822
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: he had fifteen minutes to talk about some kind of

823
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: technology with you, I don't think it would be much

824
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: of a stretch based on Again, I've never met him,

825
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: but uh, if he wanted to strike up a conversation

826
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: with him about virtually any kind of technology, I don't

827
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: think he would turn you down, or if he did,

828
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: he would do it politely. Well, it seems like just

829
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: a just a great guy. He does he does. I

830
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: would be very interested to talk with him, except I

831
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: would be intimidated that he discovered that I'm a complete

832
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: idiot within like two minutes of chatting with me. Well,

833
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't take the rest of us that long.

834
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, maybe I'm hoping that he would just have

835
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: a lot of optimism. Well that I'm teasing. That wraps

836
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: up everything I have about Woznia. Do you have anything

837
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: else you wanted to mention, not not really about Steve Christy.

838
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: Do you have anything to say to our listeners. Yeah,

839
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: actually I do. OK, UH, so you know, I'm I'm teasing. UM.

840
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: I want to thank everybody, uh for the opportunity to

841
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: uh to come into your well, if it was a radio,

842
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I would say living rooms and your your your computer,

843
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: headphones or earbuds or whatever you happen to be listening

844
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: to us on UM. You all have been very supportive

845
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: of tech Stuff over the last few years. UM. You know,

846
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: certainly when when Jonathan and I have um had made

847
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: mistakes on the podcast or uh said things that you

848
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: found uh that you wanted to share with us. Pretty

849
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: much just about everybody has been really friendly about that.

850
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: And and and we've opened a dialogue between tech Stuff

851
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: and the listeners, and I just feel, um like everybody

852
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: has been really really supportive, UM and fun to work with. UM.

853
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: I'm not uh, I'm I'm leaving basically just because it's

854
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of a good time their tech stuff is

855
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: going to be moving in in a different direction, UM

856
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: and UH, I have other stuff that I want to

857
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: do that's not in the podcast world, So you know,

858
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: it's just sort of a good time for me to

859
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: to uh to split off. But I'm certainly excited to

860
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: see what's going to happen with tech stuff in the

861
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: the days, weeks, months, years, millennia to come. Uh, there's

862
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 1: there's still a boatload of tech that that we haven't

863
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: really talked about, and uh, you know, it's gonna be

864
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: fun to see what what they do with with tech

865
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: stuff once I've I've moved on, and Jonathan too. I

866
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: want to say thanks to you because it's been an

867
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: awful lot of fun doing the podcast with you and

868
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: all the other stuff that we've text stuff live and uh,

869
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: the different video projects that we've that we've worked on together.

870
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: It's it's been the week Oh my gosh, yes, and

871
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: listener mailsh listener mail in the Infamous Collects and uh, yeah,

872
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: it's it's been an awful lot of fun working with

873
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: you everybody. I we we tease each other about about

874
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: working together, but Jonathan and I have had fun working

875
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: on it. I think I'm I'm speaking for Jonathan safely

876
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: in that case. And uh, the the whole the battle

877
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: with Josh and Chuck, which was waged completely on the

878
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: podcasts and not actually in the office, and the vigor

879
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: with which our listeners actually picked up on it. We're

880
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 1: going really they seem to think we actually do hate

881
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: each other. We don't. Uh No, those guys are great too.

882
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: And and you know, I really do appreciate everything that

883
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: uh uh Discovery and How Stuff Works has done and

884
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: uh um the listeners for for tuning in every week

885
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: and sharing with us on on social media. Um, it's

886
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: been an awful lot of fun. Thanks for for everything. Yeah,

887
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 1: you know, and I just have to say it has

888
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: been It's been a heck of a ride, Chris. I

889
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: mean we we are the the last remaining original hosts

890
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 1: of the first batch of podcasts that How Stuff Works

891
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: put out. That's true, you know, out of all the

892
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: other podcasts have come out, they their hosts have changed,

893
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: sometimes more than once. And we stayed the same team

894
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: for over four hundred and fifty episodes, which is an

895
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: incredible achievement that you have not strangled me in that time.

896
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: Uh considering that over that time we spent more time

897
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: together than I spent with my wife, that means that

898
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: you and my wife are the two people in the

899
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: world I can count on not to strangle me after

900
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: prolonged exposure. And Chris has been my editor for thanks

901
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: is early. Chris has been my editor for the last

902
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,479
Speaker 1: several years, and I've had four editors while How Stuff works,

903
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: and out of all the editors, Chris by far was

904
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: the easiest to work with. Not to say that the

905
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: other editors were bad. They were great people too, and

906
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: and continue to be great people. But but Chris would

907
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: take it upon himself to do a lot of the

908
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: work that normally would come back on to a writer.

909
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: So I've been spoiled, and frankly, I'm scared now, but

910
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: it has been a blast. It's been great. You know,

911
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: Text Stuff would not be what it is without your

912
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: h contribution in your voice. Uh. The fact that we

913
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: both have this sort of goofy, dorky sense of humor

914
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: has really brought it together. It's evident in the podcast,

915
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: it's evident in the videos. I think, Uh, I think

916
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: that my life would be totally different and much poorer

917
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: for it if I had not gone on this this

918
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: podcast adventure with you. So thank you very much. And uh, guys,

919
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: that is it for the the the the initial era

920
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: of tech Stuff. On the next podcast, the new era

921
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 1: will begin. So if you would like to get in

922
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: touch with me and my mysterious new co host, whom

923
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: you will meet very soon. You can write us at

924
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: tech stuff at Discovery dot com or contact us on

925
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: Twitter or Facebook. Are handled. There is tech stuff hs

926
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,959
Speaker 1: W and uh I'll talk to you really soon. Thanks

927
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 1: everybody for more on this and thousands of other topics.

928
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: Is it how staff works dot com