WEBVTT - I'm Trying To Get Hypnagogic

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, keep it down. I'm trying to get hypnagogic. It's

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<v Speaker 1>one more thing I'm strong. And we're talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>hypnagogic state, Jack, which is of course idaho no, I kid.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a state of mind, a state of being. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what I'm talking in this voice.

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<v Speaker 2>Say the word again.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's pronounced hypnagogic or gogic. Okay, hypna and

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<v Speaker 1>then go og I see what do you think it's Greek? Right, hypnagogic.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know anyway. It's the twilight zone between sleep

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<v Speaker 1>and wakefulness, and there is ample evidence that it's like

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<v Speaker 1>the most creative space your brain can be in.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually we're talking about usually when you're waking up.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, well, yeah, yeah, falling asleep, waking up, or

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<v Speaker 1>in drifting between sleep and wakefulness. They give a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of exams. Famously, Paul McCartney came up for the entire melody.

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<v Speaker 1>He woke up with the entire melody for Yesterday in

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<v Speaker 1>his head, and he I had not realized this. He

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<v Speaker 1>jumped straight out of bed, sat down at his piano,

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<v Speaker 1>picked out the melody on the keys, found the chords

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<v Speaker 1>to go with a melody and created some holding phrases,

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<v Speaker 1>famously scrambled eggs I think instead of yesterday, because he

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<v Speaker 1>knew he won three syllables as holding phrases, as songwriters

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<v Speaker 1>called them.

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd never heard that phrase anyway before. He wrote proper

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<v Speaker 1>lyrics to fit the melody. But he was so weirded

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<v Speaker 1>out by it. And I'd never heard this before, he recalled,

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<v Speaker 1>and I quote Maca himself. For about a month, I

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<v Speaker 1>went around to people in the music business and asked

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<v Speaker 1>them whether they had ever heard it before. I thought

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<v Speaker 1>if no one claimed it after a few weeks, then

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<v Speaker 1>I could have it. But he was kind of surprised

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<v Speaker 1>that it sprang from his mind and not memory.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I could see how you think I must

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<v Speaker 2>have heard this somewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And it's funny. This guy either doesn't know where,

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't mention it. And he's a British he's like

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<v Speaker 1>the head of this psychology department at a British university.

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<v Speaker 2>A lecture and he didn't mention that.

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<v Speaker 1>Keith Richards wrote Satisfaction, the Riff and everything when he

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<v Speaker 1>woke up in the middle of the night. He woke

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<v Speaker 1>up in the morning to see that his entire tape

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<v Speaker 1>from his cassette recorder was all the way toward the

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<v Speaker 1>played end or recorded end, like it had run out

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<v Speaker 1>of tape, and he's like, what the hell, why was

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<v Speaker 1>my Why does my tape look like that? He rewound

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<v Speaker 1>it and listened to it, and he had zero memory

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<v Speaker 1>of playing.

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<v Speaker 2>That riff in the middle of the night. That song

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<v Speaker 2>would have never existed if he hadn't decided to record it.

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<v Speaker 2>I am definitely learned that if you have, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>those kind of moments, whether you're waking up or any time, man,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to write them down or they're gone.

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<v Speaker 1>That is one of the points they make Jack here

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<v Speaker 1>a hundred potent, Right, you've done it. Myself thought, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll wake up, I'll remember this because it's so good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know your only point isn't about songwriting, But

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<v Speaker 2>I know most of the great songwriters talk about this

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<v Speaker 2>idea that like the songs are in the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the universe, and they show themselves and you've got

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<v Speaker 2>to grab them when you get a chance to grab them,

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<v Speaker 2>or that's your only option, which is a weird concept.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I was awake in the middle of the

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<v Speaker 1>night when I wrote Sweet Home, Alabama.

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<v Speaker 2>They stole it from me, those long haired bastards. But hippies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that's okay. I know in my heart I

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<v Speaker 1>wrote it. But anyway, So this hypnogogic state where you're

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<v Speaker 1>like almost asleep and half awake, they think it uncouples

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<v Speaker 1>your conscious mind from concerns and you know, worrying through

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<v Speaker 1>the things you have to do, and just your worries

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<v Speaker 1>and cares and that sort of thing, and your creative

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<v Speaker 1>mind is able to just process more openly. They did

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<v Speaker 1>the study in twenty twenty one where participants in a

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<v Speaker 1>hypnogogic state were three times more likely to discover the

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<v Speaker 1>hidden rule that could solve a mathematical problem. Now, I've

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<v Speaker 1>never participated in that sort of mathematical riddle before, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't really relate to it. But again, the people in

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<v Speaker 1>that sleepy headed state were three times more likely to

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<v Speaker 1>discover the hidden rule have it occur to them. Psychologists

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<v Speaker 1>associate creativity with qualities such as openness to experience and

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<v Speaker 1>cognitive flexibility. Others have suggested that creativity arises from coordination

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<v Speaker 1>between the cognitive control network of the brain, which deals

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<v Speaker 1>with planning and problem solving, and the default mode network,

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<v Speaker 1>which is associating with daydreaming and mind wandering.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it. It's got to have something to do

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<v Speaker 2>with it. These thoughts about math or music or whatever

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<v Speaker 2>ideas you have aren't being blocked out by the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the problems of the moment that you're dealing with all

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<v Speaker 2>day long, obscuring them. Sure, yeah, before you wake up

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<v Speaker 2>enough to think, oh god, it's Thursday. That's right, I

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<v Speaker 2>have a test and I got to pick up my

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<v Speaker 2>kid and all these different things.

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<v Speaker 1>For a brief period, our mental boundaries are permeable, and

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<v Speaker 1>there is chance a chance creative insights and ideals will

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<v Speaker 1>flow through from the subliminal mind. Here's where I get

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<v Speaker 1>even more militant, just for myself. I'm not talking about

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<v Speaker 1>you people, just talking about myself and kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>The people I care about, who I will lecture.

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<v Speaker 1>This is why creativity is often associated with relaxation and idleness.

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<v Speaker 1>When we relax, our conscious minds are usually less active.

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<v Speaker 1>Often when we are busy or looking at a screen,

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<v Speaker 1>our minds are full of chattering thoughts, so there is

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<v Speaker 1>no space for creative insights to flow through. That is

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<v Speaker 1>why meditation is strongly associated also with creativity. Perhaps more importantly,

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<v Speaker 1>meditation quiets and softens the conscious minds, so we're more

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<v Speaker 1>liable to receive inspiration from beyond it.

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<v Speaker 2>That is so interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I have become an absolute advocate for boredom. Every single day.

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<v Speaker 1>Make yourself bored. And if I'm standing wow, wow, that

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<v Speaker 1>is scathing and hilarious, Michael, that is my highest grade

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<v Speaker 1>for sarcastic hilarity. Every day, if I'm waiting for the

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<v Speaker 1>doctor to come into the waiting room, I do not

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<v Speaker 1>look at my phone. I look around at the posters

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<v Speaker 1>trying to sell me on botox or a new knee

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever the hell, and I intentionally don't occupy my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to do that every single day. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you do it if you want, don't do it if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't want to. But I really I've become a

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<v Speaker 1>believer that you've got to let your mind unwind. And

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<v Speaker 1>it takes a minute. Yeah, I mean, you're an advocate

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<v Speaker 1>for meditation, Jack, and I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>To say, every single day for twenty minutes. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>rarely miss, and if I do miss, at this point,

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<v Speaker 2>it's almost intolerable. So I don't know what happened there,

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<v Speaker 2>But if I miss a day, it is so freaking noticeable. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So I do it every day, usually right when we

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<v Speaker 2>get off off the air, I go plug in my

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<v Speaker 2>Tesla and sit there and I meditate for twenty minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually do this thing where I write down it's

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<v Speaker 2>a suggestion from some people. Write down my fears and

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<v Speaker 2>resentments on a piece of paper, handwritten, then meditate for

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<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes. And huge part of my life at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember one year of your Christmas present to me

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<v Speaker 1>was you wrote Joe's an asshole five hundred times in

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<v Speaker 1>a raw and you put it in a nice frame

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<v Speaker 1>and he gave it to me. And that was really

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<v Speaker 1>that was nice.

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<v Speaker 2>That was nice.

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<v Speaker 1>You took the time special Christmas. Yeah, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>very special Christmas, Michael.

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<v Speaker 2>So I do the kind of meditation where you have

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<v Speaker 2>a mantra you go back to. That's the only meditation

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<v Speaker 2>that's ever worked for me. And I've tried every other

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<v Speaker 2>kind that exists, and I just couldn't do it. But

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<v Speaker 2>the mantra kind, I can.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it one mantra or do you have? Does it change?

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<v Speaker 2>It's one? They give it to you. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>keep it secret, Okay, it's the whole thing sounds like

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<v Speaker 2>a scam. Like I've talked about before, you have to

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<v Speaker 2>pay to get your mantra, which just sounds scam olicious.

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<v Speaker 2>All I know is that it's the only meditation that's

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<v Speaker 2>ever worked, and I it's made my life better, so

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<v Speaker 2>it was worth it.

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<v Speaker 1>Mine is in a Gotta Da Vada, very old.

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<v Speaker 2>Classic rock reference.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing I do is when I and this

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<v Speaker 1>is an ironic thing to say, and I probably shouldn't,

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<v Speaker 1>but there are a lot of podcasts that I absolutely love.

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<v Speaker 1>I know I always claim there's just one arse, but

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<v Speaker 1>usually I try once a day when I'm walking Baxter,

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<v Speaker 1>just to look at the trees, look at the leaves,

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<v Speaker 1>look at the sky, look at the grass, just take

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<v Speaker 1>in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>It calms me. Do you find it or so does

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<v Speaker 2>a great podcast? Do you find it at all? Hard

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<v Speaker 2>to do? Sometimes? Yes, yeah, So I have.

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<v Speaker 1>To remind myself this is why you do this, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>My example of that I used to I've told this

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<v Speaker 2>story many times, and this is way before podcasts stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that. When my mind was much slower, when I

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<v Speaker 2>used to do a lot of motorcycle trips and I

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<v Speaker 2>on the motorcycle. I didn't have any sort of mechanism

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<v Speaker 2>for listening to music or podcasts or any of it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just my own brain. And I've done a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of Katie. This is years ago. Nineteen ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 2>I rode to Sturgis, so I rode my Harley all

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<v Speaker 2>the way out. I went through Kansas when up Sturgis

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<v Speaker 2>came back in South Kona. I did forty five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>miles total. That's a lot of miles. And when I

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<v Speaker 2>would first start out on a trip, it was just

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<v Speaker 2>painful to be there just with my thoughts, just like,

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<v Speaker 2>how am I gonna do this all day long? Just

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<v Speaker 2>staring at the road with my own thoughts. But once

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<v Speaker 2>I'd get in the groove, I could go for hours

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<v Speaker 2>easily without effort, and then I would go to sleep.

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<v Speaker 2>In the next day, do another eight ten hours in

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<v Speaker 2>the saddle effortlessly, but then like a couple of days

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<v Speaker 2>of normal life. Next trip, first hour or so, just painful.

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<v Speaker 2>Getting your mind to slow down to where you can

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<v Speaker 2>do that is not easy. But once you do, once

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<v Speaker 2>you get in that zone, you can do it. Farmers

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<v Speaker 2>probably you know back in the day behind a mule

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<v Speaker 2>for fifteen hours. Probably easy for him.

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<v Speaker 1>Start thinking, Man, this mule's got a nice ass, so

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta be careful.

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<v Speaker 2>It cuts both way, and for people who would think

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<v Speaker 2>that would be you know, there was nothing to do,

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<v Speaker 2>life was so boring. How many of them needed anxiety

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<v Speaker 2>medicine or wanted to hang themselves at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the day or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Very few, Katie's missing The really beautiful point you're making

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<v Speaker 1>here is my fault.

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<v Speaker 3>It's because I'm a child, all right. That was funny.

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<v Speaker 2>I have never ended a day of alone with my

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<v Speaker 2>own thoughts, like on those motorcycle trips or camping or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>where I'm like anxious in wish I were dead. Yeah, ever, no,

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<v Speaker 2>well said.

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<v Speaker 4>See, my mom has been recommending meditation to me since

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<v Speaker 4>I don't even remember how long it's been. But I

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<v Speaker 4>have a real problem with the whole shutting it down.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's why, Yeah, I me too. It was I'm

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<v Speaker 2>surprised because you seem so placid. It was awful until

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<v Speaker 2>I came across this. You know, I'm not. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>make any money off of pitching TM as a meditation.

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<v Speaker 2>They charge you for it. It's weird. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>bring a fresh fruit, a white piece of cloth, and

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<v Speaker 2>a flower. I know you're giving me that because that

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<v Speaker 2>sounds insane, sounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it's one of those white elephant gift exchanges for

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas and they charge you based on how much money

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<v Speaker 1>you make.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. Okay, and so I paid over a thousand bucks

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<v Speaker 2>for this class.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean it sounds like it's doing a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of good though.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one of the best things I've ever been in

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<v Speaker 2>my life.

0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Wow, Well, got your money's worth.

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.120
<v Speaker 2>That's what I always tell people. I say, it's got

0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.240
<v Speaker 2>scam written all over it, and the hole you got

0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.840
<v Speaker 2>to keep it secret. To me, It's like, if you

0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.640
<v Speaker 2>care about people like being placid, why didn't you give

0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.560
<v Speaker 2>this away for free? Why are you charging money? But

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.720
<v Speaker 2>what I've whatever, I'm not worried about that. It just

0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.600
<v Speaker 2>it works for me to bring.

0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.560
<v Speaker 3>Is it a whole watermelon or that's what I was thinking.

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 2>I think I brought an apple, a white handkerchief, and

0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:17.359
<v Speaker 2>then some flowers.

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Final note from this article. Because it's pretty good. We

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 1>can also use the technique of conscious napping to generate ideas.

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Whenever the great inventor Thomas Edison was stuck for a

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 1>solution or new idea. He would allow himself to drift

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it into unconsciousness while holding a metal ball as he

0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 1>fell asleep. The ball would clatter to the ground and

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.400
<v Speaker 1>awake him when he would often find that a new

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:41.640
<v Speaker 1>insight had emerged.

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Wow, now that's an interesting one.

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.080
<v Speaker 1>I actually heard Michael Savage talk about that once years ago.

0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.120
<v Speaker 1>More generally, we should use idleness as a way of

0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.080
<v Speaker 1>cultivating creativity. Don't think of napping or relaxing as a

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.720
<v Speaker 1>waste of time. To Jack's point, far from being unproductive,

0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 1>this may lead to the most inspired ideas, an insight

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.280
<v Speaker 1>of our lives. That's what I'm going to do on

0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.920
<v Speaker 1>our vacation, a whole lot of just thinking.

0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 2>That's my plan. And I don't really need inspired creative

0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 2>insights to invent something new or write a melody or whatever.

0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:19.920
<v Speaker 2>But being you know, happy is a worthwhile goal. Content

0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:20.720
<v Speaker 2>better word.

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you're here.

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean I got like, I know the kind of

0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.120
<v Speaker 2>guy you are, similar to the kind of guy I am.

0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 2>If somebody tells tells you, okay, I'll teach you how

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 2>to meditate, but I need you to bring a clean

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 2>white piece of cloth, a piece of fruit, and a flower,

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to charge you based on your income.

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't that just immediately make you think what?

0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, yes, yes, it does. Sounds like a cult.

0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.800
<v Speaker 2>That's that's what my son calls it, because I've been

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to get him to meditate because he his mind

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>just tortures him. And I'm not going to do your

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 2>cult voodoo because he knows about the cloth and the fruit.

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I remember there was a great deal of concern about

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.160
<v Speaker 1>TM in the seventies probably or eighties, early eighties in

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>my church community.

0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Which I grew up.

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>What were they afraid it was doing taking you in

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 1>a different direction than Christianity in.

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Short, as a substitute. I could see how that could happen. Yeah,

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 2>if you're I guess if you're, If you're you know,

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to church to be like content and

0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 2>the meditation works, maybe you stop going to church. That

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.200
<v Speaker 2>could be their concern, I suppose.

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my recollection was at that point in my life,

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.120
<v Speaker 1>I was only interested in getting a girlfriend and winning

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 1>baseball games, so I didn't I wasn't personally very concerned

0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 1>about it.

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>And one final pitch is watch any of Jerry Seinfeld's

0:14:55.680 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 2>long videos about TM. They're pretty damned interesting. Or Jennifer Aniston,

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>who says she'd she'd rather soft her arm than give

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 2>up her mantra she does the DMO.

0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay ah, well, I guess that's it.