1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: It's June twenty first, eighteen thirty nine. Under the darkness 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: of night, a group of men meet in a small cabin. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: They pass around a hat and each draw a piece 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: of paper. Some papers are blank, others marked with an X. 5 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: The men with an X are given assignments. They split 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: into groups, and before the sun comes up, they mount 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: their horses and ride off to different places in Cherokee 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: Nation to carry out the plan. At daybreak, twenty five 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: men arrive at the house of Cherokee leader John Ridge. 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: John is asleep inside with his family. Three men barge 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: through the front door and find John in bed. They 12 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: drag him outside. His wife tries to run after him, 13 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: but some of the men hold her back. The men 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: have been warned that John is very persuasive and not 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: to let him speak to drown at his pleas they 16 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: shout over him. John struggles, but he knows what's going 17 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: to happen. He knows he's living on borrowed time and 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: now comes the inevitable. Who was John Ridge? And why 19 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: does his story matter? Let me tell you you're listening 20 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: to This Land, a podcast about broken promises, tribal land, 21 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: and murder. This year, the Supreme court will change the 22 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: future of five Native American tribes in the US, including mine, 23 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: when it answers one question, is half the land in 24 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: Oklahoma Indian Country. I'm your host, Rebecca Nagele, citizen of 25 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Cherokee Nation. In this episode, We're gonna go way back. 26 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you the story of how my 27 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: people came to Oklahoma and how this land became our 28 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: land in the first place. It's also the story of 29 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: my family, the decisions they made, and the price they 30 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: paid for it. Growing up, my grandmother often told me 31 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: stories about John Ridge and his father, Major Ridge, our ancestors. 32 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: Major Ridge is my great great great great grandfather. Before 33 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: I was old enough to know about things like US 34 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: presidents or treaty rights, I knew my ancestors had been 35 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: leaders of Cherokee Nation, and in their lifetime they fought 36 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: and died for our tribe. The way my grandma told 37 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: the story, they were heroes. But that's not how everyone 38 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: sees it. I didn't understand the whole story until I 39 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: was nine years old. That summer, my family took a 40 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: road trip to Georgia to see where ancestors had lived 41 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: before removal. 42 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: We stopped at a museum about the Trail of Tears. 43 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: Major Ridge and. 44 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: John Ridge's portraits were on the wall. I recognized them immediately. 45 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: Copies of the same paintings were on the wall of 46 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: my grandma's house. 47 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: At the museum. 48 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: There was text next to their images explaining their connection 49 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: to this history. But there was a new word in 50 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: their story, one I had never heard my grandma say. 51 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: Traders. 52 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 3: Oh gosh. It's still a huge debate. It still lives 53 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: on today. 54 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: This is Catherine Gray. 55 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: I'm a history and preservation officer with Cherokee Nation. I'm 56 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 3: Chokey Nation citizen. 57 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: She's spent a lot of time untangling the story of 58 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: the Ridges. 59 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 3: I don't want people to agree. You're just agree with me, 60 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: And my job isn't to tell you how to feel 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: one way or another about our history. I just want 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: people to have all of the facts. And if you know, 63 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: lover hate the Ridges, that's on you. 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: And by the end of this story, you too can 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: decide what you think. 66 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 4: Augi dude Aga e gonad Le Hawasidena Zino Wagen Undadua. 67 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 4: Doctor Adrian Keene, a Cherokee citizen, writer and activists, likes 68 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 4: to say settlers have colonization stories and indigenous people have 69 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 4: creation stories. Settlers know the stories of how they came 70 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 4: to this land, but as Indigenous people, we know how 71 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 4: this land was formed because we have been here since 72 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 4: the beginning of time. In our Cherokee creation story, the 73 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 4: buzzer Sioul flew for seven days and seven nights. When 74 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 4: he got tired, his wings fell into the mud and 75 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 4: formed valleys, And every time he lifted his wings it 76 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 4: formed the ridges and mountaintops. 77 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: My great great great great. 78 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: Grandfather walked along these ridges, and that's where he got 79 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: his name, Gna d'atle ghi, which means the man who 80 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: walks along the top of the mountain. 81 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: In English. 82 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: It was shortened to Ridge. Later in life he would 83 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: take the first name Major. This was John's father. He 84 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: was known as a great hunter, warrior, and public speaker. 85 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: He drew crowds and held people in awe as he 86 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: spoke all in Cherokee. He did not come from a 87 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: prominent family, but he would become one of the most 88 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: powerful leaders in Cherokee Nation. 89 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 3: He was very well respected as a military Later. 90 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: During his lifetime, Major Ridge witnessed one of the largest 91 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: migrations in US history. One that isn't taught in school. 92 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: Millions of white settlers moved from the Atlantic coast west 93 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: onto Native land after the Revolutionary War. This migration was 94 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: really a land grab. Tribes found themselves fighting more and 95 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: more white settlers. 96 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: There's just so much rapid change that's happening within one 97 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 3: to two generations, and he's a part of that. He's 98 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: witnessing that firsthand. 99 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: Major Ridge fought against the theft of Cherokee lands at 100 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: a time when the United States was taking advantage of 101 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: the way our government was decentralized. 102 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: You would have found hundreds, if not thousands, possibly at 103 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 3: one time, Cherokee towns that were scattered throughout the southeastern 104 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: United States. All of these towns had their own chief. 105 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: In other words, there wasn't one who could push back 106 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: against white encroachment. So the United States manipulated individual chiefs 107 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: into giving up Cherokee land. And there was one chief, 108 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: a man named Doublehead, who was particularly easy to exploit. 109 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: By eighteen oh seven, he had already signed away Cherokee 110 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: land to the US three separate times, and he was 111 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: about to do it again. But Major Ridge was determined 112 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: to stop him and to send a message to others. 113 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: With two other men in tow, Major Ridge hunted down 114 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: Chief double Head and killed him. It was a brutal murder, 115 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: but he believed it was necessary to protect Cherokee land. 116 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: Years later, he pushed Cherokee Nations Council to pass a 117 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: law that made giving land to the United States a 118 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: crime punishable by death. He didn't know it yet, but 119 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: that decision would seal his fate. Major Ridge grew up 120 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: before the United States even existed, but his son, John Ridge, 121 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: born around eighteen oh three, grew up with the United 122 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: States surrounding Cherokee Nation and affecting their everyday lives. John's 123 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: generation had to figure out how to get along with 124 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: white society. Here's historian Catherine Gray again. 125 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: You know, we realized that the United States, these people 126 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: are not going anywhere like we're going to have to 127 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 3: deal with them. We're going to have to maintain a 128 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 3: relationship with him. I mean, we're gonna have to fight 129 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: for our lands in the United States court. That's one 130 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: of the reasons why we start viewing assimilation as the 131 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: way that we're going to be able to preserve our lands. 132 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: The push for assimilation did not come from a belief 133 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: that the white world was somehow better than the Cherokee world. 134 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: It came from the reality that if our people were 135 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: going to survive, they would have to operate in both 136 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: and that involved learning English. Major Ridge made a point 137 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: to never learn it. He traveled to Washington, met with presidents, 138 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: became a famous diplomat, but never learned the colonizer's language. 139 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: But he wanted something different for his son John. 140 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 5: He wanted him to be able to live in the 141 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 5: present time, in their present time, and be able to 142 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 5: deal with the things that were happening then. 143 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: So John went to the first Indian boarding school in 144 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: the United States. It was named the Cornwall Mission School, 145 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: but most people called it the Heathen School. John learned 146 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: English and built his life in both worlds. While he 147 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: was at school, John got very sick and became bedridden. 148 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: The headmaster's daughter, Sarah, helped take care of him, and 149 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: over time they fell in love. Both their families objected, 150 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: but ever so slowly their parents came around. The white 151 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: people of Cornwall, Connecticut, however, did not. After John married Sarah, 152 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: he was nearly killed by an angry mob. The newlyweds 153 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: had to leave Connecticut immediately, but the outrage they sparked 154 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: followed them. Papers throughout the Northeast spread news about the 155 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: young savage Indian marrying a white girl. Crowds confronted them 156 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: wherever they stopped. 157 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 5: All of a sudden, everybody was just just astounded and 158 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 5: appalled that, you know, these white girls would marry Indians, 159 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 5: these heathens. 160 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: The local community was so enraged they forced Cornwall Mission 161 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: School to close a few years later, but John had 162 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: already graduated. He went on to study law, and he 163 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: became one of the first Native American lawyers. He used 164 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: his white education to resist from within. 165 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 5: He was a lawyer, He argued before the Congress of 166 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 5: the United States, He spoke to presidents. He was a 167 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 5: very distinguished looking man and very knowledgeable. 168 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: He was basically a nineteenth century lobbyist. John went on 169 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: speaking tours in the Northeast. He met with members of 170 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: Congress and US presidents about the plight of Cherokee Nation 171 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: and on behalf of other tribes in the South. Both 172 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: John and his father were ambassadors for the tribe. 173 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: And they were able to go out there and prove 174 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 3: to the United States and really to the world that 175 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 3: were not just these heathen, savage Indians living you know 176 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: how we think we are and educated that we're not 177 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 3: capable of doing everything that you can. 178 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: After years of organizing, Cherokee Nation established its first written 179 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: constitution in eighteen twenty seven. It unequivocally declared Cherokee Nation's 180 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: sovereignty over our land independent from the United States. It 181 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: said in plain terms that not one more foot of 182 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: our land would be given to the US. 183 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 3: And this enraged the State of Georgia. 184 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: And that was a problem because Georgia surrounded Cherokee Land 185 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: and Georgia wanted it. So the state started passing laws 186 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: telling Cherokees what they could and could not do on 187 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: our own land. These laws were known as harassment laws. 188 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 3: We were not allowed to min gold on our own lands, 189 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: so it was illegal for Cherokees to do that. It 190 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: was illegal for Cherokees to meet in council. What Georgia 191 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 3: is trying to do is extend its laws. 192 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: And this fight wasn't just on paper. The Georgia Militia 193 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: began coming onto Cherokee territory to enforce these laws. Things 194 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: got violent. Many Cherokees died. The militia seized property, set 195 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: Cherokee homes on fire, and encouraged white settlers to take 196 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: over Cherokee land. It was basically a state of undeclared war. 197 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: Georgia was making life for Cherokees unbearable to force us 198 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: to leave, and Georgia had. 199 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: A powerful ally. 200 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: The man in the White House, Andrew Jackson, whented all Indians, 201 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: kicked off their land and pushed west of the Mississippi. 202 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson wrote a wave of populism to the Oval Office, 203 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: thumbing his nose at Washington elite and political norms. As president, 204 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: he was known to openly fight with Congress, use his 205 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: office to enrich himself and his friends, and would ultimately 206 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: defy an order from the Supreme Court to carry out genocide. 207 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: It's not a coincidence that Andrew Jackson is Donald Trump's 208 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: favorite president, and it's not surprising that a country who 209 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: continues to praise a man like Jackson would end up 210 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: electing a man like Trump. If we don't learn from 211 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: our history, it's doomed to repeat itself. Until then, John 212 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: and Major Ridge had used diplomacy. 213 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: Not force. 214 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: But now the tribe's back was up against the wall. 215 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: Major Ridge decided to take action. He had to stop 216 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: the onslaught of white settlers. 217 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: Pouring into Cherokee Nation. 218 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: If the United States wouldn't enforce our treaty rights, Cherokee 219 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: Nation would. Major Ridge and a band of warriors evicted 220 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: squatters from a settlement at Cedar Creek without killing anyone, 221 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: and then burned the whole town to the ground. But 222 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: their show of force backfired. Georgia's civilians retaliated even more brutally. 223 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: The bloodshed left Cherokee Nation with even fewer options. Cherokee leaders, 224 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: like Major Ridge, didn't know what to do next, but 225 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: John Ridge had an idea. His plan was to win 226 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: this war in the courts of the United States. One 227 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: of Georgia's harassment laws had a loyalty requirement for all 228 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: white people living within Cherokee Nation. 229 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: The laws stated that they had to pledge allegiance to 230 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 3: the state of Georgia. 231 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: But some people in Cherokee Nation refused, including a group 232 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: of missionaries. 233 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 3: They felt that this was going to hurt their reputation 234 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: with the Cherokee people, and they ended up being jailed 235 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: for it. 236 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: Eleven missionaries were arrested. Most eventually caved, but one man, 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: Samuel Booster, held out. John Ridge worked with Wooster to 238 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: argue that Cherokee Nation was a sovereign government and Georgia 239 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: couldn't enforce their laws on our land. His case made 240 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: it all the way to the Supreme Court. John Ridge 241 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: worked with Wooster to argue that the State of Georgia 242 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: couldn't arrest him because Georgia's laws had no authority in 243 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: Cherokee Nation. Wooster's defense was that Cherokee Nation was a 244 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: sovereign government and Georgia couldn't enforce their laws on our land. 245 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: John Ridge was in Boston on a speaking tour to 246 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: drum up support for Cherokee sovereignty when he got the 247 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: news Cherokee Nation had won. The Supreme Court ruled what 248 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson and the State of Georgia were doing was illegal. 249 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: The victory meant they could remain a sovereign nation on 250 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: their own land. John rejoiced it was the first win 251 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: ever for Native Americans at the Supreme Court. His plan 252 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: had worked, But within days, John Ridge got word that 253 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: President Jackson was planning to defy the Court's decision. As 254 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: my family tells it, a furious John Ridge went straight 255 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: to the White House to confront the President, but Jackson 256 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: had already made up his mind. Here is my cousin 257 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: Nancy telling me what Jackson said. 258 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 5: He said, Chief Justice John Marshall has is made the decision, 259 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 5: let him enforce it. 260 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: This was illegal. 261 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: Justice John Marshall had only a gavel and a podium, 262 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: while the president had an army. Andrew Jackson was the 263 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: only one who could make Georgia follow the Supreme Court's order, 264 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: but he openly and flagrantly refused. John realized that nothing, 265 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: not even a Supreme Court victory, would protect Cherokee. 266 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, all the hope went away, 267 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 5: and they saw what was going to happen. 268 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: As Catherine tells it, President Jackson told Georgia. 269 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 3: To light a fire under us and we'll move. 270 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: And so that becomes Jackson's illegal and explicit policy forced 271 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: the Cherokees to sign a treaty by any means necessary. 272 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 3: The harassment becomes even worse, and Cherokees are being terrorized 273 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: in our own homes, and it just gets even worse. 274 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: Georgia sent surveyors into Cherokee Nation to measure out the 275 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: land and divide it up. They made a giant map 276 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: and opened up a lottery to all white people in Georgia, 277 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: and in October of eighteen thirty two, the lottery wheels 278 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: began to spend. The winners descended on Cherokee Nation, claiming 279 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: homes and farms and overrunning entire towns. Even John Ridge's home. 280 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: Was awarded to white settlers. 281 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: At this point, Major and John Ridge were out of options. 282 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: Here's Nancy again. 283 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 5: The Ridges had been to Washington, d c. They had 284 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 5: talked to the President, they had talked to Congress, they 285 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 5: had filed actions with the courts. 286 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 2: But none of it mattered. 287 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: They knew Cherokee Nation would not win this fight by 288 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: sword or by penn and what happens next would change 289 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: not only the course of my ancestors' lives, but the 290 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: history of Cherokee Nation. Major Ridge and his son John 291 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 1: had no other options left, so they began talking about 292 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: the unthinkable, signing a treaty signing away the title to 293 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: Cherokee land east of the Mississippi in exchange for land 294 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: out west. 295 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 5: They decided, after some discussions with the government, that it 296 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 5: would be in the best interests of the Cherokees to 297 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 5: go ahead and lead, rather than try to fight the 298 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 5: whole state of Georgia to stay in their homeland, and 299 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 5: they knew that there was serious consequences if they signed 300 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 5: a treaty, but they felt they were doing it for 301 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 5: the good of the Cherokee Nation. 302 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: So some Cherokee leaders joined the Ridges to form a 303 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: treaty party. But leaving our homelands for the West was controversial. 304 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: Here's Catherine again. 305 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 3: It was very unpopular. Majority of Cherokees did not support this. 306 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Cherokee Nations Council voted the Treaty Party down many times over. 307 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: The Ridges went from respected leaders to being called traders. 308 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 3: It really begins dividing our own people. I feel like 309 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: is the fault of the United States government and its 310 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 3: ability to be able to divide. 311 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: Us us the Ridges was John Ross, the principal chief 312 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: of Cherokee Nation. He was also pursuing a treaty with 313 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: the United States, but on very different terms. 314 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: Rather than moving. 315 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: West, Ross proposed that Cherokees stay in our homelands but 316 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: become absorbed by the United States. 317 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: People were looking into the options of becoming of retaining 318 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 3: our homelands, but then we would no longer be Cherokee 319 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: or have our government. 320 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: In other words, there would still be Cherokee people living 321 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: on Cherokee land, but no tribe, no self governance, no nation. 322 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 2: The Ridges took the opposite position. 323 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 3: They had the foresight to really try to maintain the 324 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 3: Cherokee government as a whole and fight for a sovereign 325 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 3: Cherokee nation. 326 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: That's the difference. That's what my ancestors sacrificed everything for sovereignty. 327 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: In December of eighteen thirty five, a small group of 328 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: Cherokees met in the tribe's old capital with representatives of 329 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: the US government. Major Ridge gave a long, impassioned speech. 330 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: Here's what he said, translated into English. I am one 331 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: of the native sons of this land. I have hunted 332 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: the deer and turkey here more than fifty years. I 333 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: know that Indian has an older title than theirs. We 334 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: obtained this land from the living God above. They obtained 335 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: their land from the British. Yet they are strong and 336 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: we are weak. We are few and they are many. 337 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: We cannot remain here in safety and comfort. We can 338 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: never forget these homes. I would willingly die to preserve them, 339 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: but any forcible effort to keep them will cost us 340 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: our lands, our lives, and the lives of our children. 341 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: On a cold December night, that small unauthorized group of 342 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: Cherokee leaders signed a treaty that would send tens of 343 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: thousands of Indians halfway across North America. By candlelight, twenty 344 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: men wrote their names, unable to speak or write in English. 345 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: Major Ridge signed his with an ex yeah. 346 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 5: Major Ridge said that when he signed a treaty, he said, 347 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 5: I've signed my death warrant. 348 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: Cherokees attempted to reject the treaty with a petition to Congress. 349 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: The vast majority of our tribe signed it, but Congress 350 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: never read it. Instead, the treaty was ratified in the Senate. 351 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: Removal of all Indians from the Southeast was imminent. Cherokees 352 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,239 Speaker 1: were rounded up at gunpoint, kept in concentration camps, and 353 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: then forced to march across the eastern half of the 354 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: United States, starting from present day Georgia or Tennessee. 355 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: Our people walked all the way. 356 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: To Indian Territory what is now Oklahoma. The young, the old, 357 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: the sec everyone walked for one thousand miles. 358 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: This was the Trail of Tears. 359 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: I don't think people realize either how long people were traveling. 360 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 3: So we have detachments that left in September, October and 361 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 3: they're not arriving into Indian Territory until March, and you 362 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: look at the winter that they're going through and they're 363 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 3: removing last so one of the worst winters ever before. 364 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 1: The Trail of Tears. Cherokee Nation had about sixteen thousand citizens. 365 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: During the March, one out of every four people died. 366 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: We don't even know. I don't think we'll ever know 367 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 3: really what the actual toll was on that because there 368 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: are people who come into Indian Territory and they're still 369 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 3: continuing to be sick and to die. Because the majority 370 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 3: of the deaths when the removal were were young people 371 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 3: and elderly. So, you know, people are angry. 372 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: People are very angry, and they knew who to blame. 373 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 3: You know, they get here to Indian Territory and everybody 374 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 3: at some point has lost a member of their family 375 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 3: probably and they placed all of the blame on the 376 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 3: Treaty party. 377 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: That's why the Ridges are controversial among Cherokees. Many Cherokee 378 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: people blame the Ridges for the Trail of Tears. They 379 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: see the Treaty of Nuachoda not as an effort to 380 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: save Cherokee Nation, but as an act of betrayal. After 381 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: arriving out west. The Ridges built their home in the 382 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: New Cherokee Nation and lived in relative of peace for 383 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: a few years. That was until the morning of June 384 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: twenty second, eighteen thirty nine. That morning, John Ridge was 385 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: asleep in his house, so were his wife, Sarah, their children, 386 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: and his mother. The son had just come up, and 387 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: twenty five men were standing in his front yard. The 388 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: men gathered in John's yard. They weren't strangers. They were 389 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: his fellow Cherokees. Some of them were people he had 390 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: clothed and fed. But today they were there to execute 391 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: the death warrant John and his father had signed to 392 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: avenge the deaths of their loved ones who had died 393 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: on the Trail of Tears. After dragging John from his 394 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: bed into the yard, they stabbed him over and over 395 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: twenty five times. They slid open his throat. Sarah and 396 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: the children watched as the men threw his body up 397 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: into the air and let it fall to the ground. 398 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: They took turns stomping on his chest until it caved in. 399 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: Sarah screamed from the doorway, and then as quickly as 400 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: they appeared, the men left. Sarah ran to John, knelt 401 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: beside his broken body, he tried to speak. I often 402 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: wonder what in his final moments my ancestor was trying 403 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: to tell his wife. Was he trying to comfort her, 404 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: warn her. Maybe he was just saying goodbye, But instead 405 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: of words, all that came from his mouth was blood. 406 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: John's death wasn't just brutal. It was a message, a 407 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: message to everyone who signed the Treaty of Nyuachoda. Major 408 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: Ridge wasn't home that day. He was traveling to Arkansas. 409 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: As he crossed the state line, a group of men 410 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: from that secret meeting the night before tracked him down 411 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: from the trees. They ambushed and shot major Ridge five times. 412 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: He slumped over on his horse and died. Two generations 413 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: of my family were killed on the same day. It's 414 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: a cold, windy day at my family's cemetery. This place 415 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: holds a lot of power for me. Walking through the 416 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: rows of my ancestors, seeing their names, remembering their stories. 417 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: I think about the sacrifices they made, and I don't 418 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: just mean their deaths. My ancestors knew what they were 419 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: doing wasn't popular, but their decision wasn't about their personal legacy. 420 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,959 Speaker 1: They weren't thinking about what some museum plaque in the 421 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: future might say about them, they were thinking about the 422 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: survival of our tribe. 423 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 5: Major Ridge and John Ridge are buried here. 424 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: My cousin Nancy and I are visiting their graves. 425 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 5: There was no stone put up for John Ridge. 426 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: John was buried at night because Sarah was worried that 427 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: more people would be killed. His unmarked grave started our 428 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: family cemetery. 429 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 5: Yes, we have a lot of generations buried in the cemetery. 430 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: Five generations so far. When I am eventually laid to rest, 431 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: I will be the seventh. My favorite picture of my 432 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: grandma was taken in this cemetery. In it, she's wearing 433 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: a white shirt and jeans and a colorful scarf, lit 434 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: up by the day's sunshine. She's kneeling in front of 435 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: the graves of Major and John Ridge. From a small 436 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: tupperware container, She's taking dirt and spreading it over the ground. 437 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: She brought this dirt, this land, from our tribe's homeland 438 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: and present day Georgia back here to Oklahoma. As you 439 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: know by now, Oklahoma is not my tribe's original homeland, 440 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: but it is where we have lived for the past 441 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty years. It's where we practice our ceremonies, 442 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: go to church, speak our language, raise our kids. This 443 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: land is our land. The treaty that the Ridges signed 444 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: promised Cherokee Nation sovereignty over this land for as long 445 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: as the waters ran and the grass grew. That promise 446 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: was not kept. In nineteen oh seven, six decades after 447 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: John's death, the government came back wanting our land, and 448 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: they came up with a sneaky way to do it, 449 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: something called allotment. And this land grab is what Oklahoma 450 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: claims left my tribe and four others without a reservation. 451 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: And that's the ultimate question before the Supreme Court. 452 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 2: Did this early. 453 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: Nineteen hundreds land grab and our reservations? Next time on 454 00:31:24,120 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: this land, y